The Get Up & Grow Podcast
The Get Up & Grow Podcast
Joe Gardener - The Guru of Organic Gardening - Get Up & Grow Podcast EP #4
Welcome to the Get Up & Grow Podcast! In this episode, we have a very special guest, Joe Lamp'l, also known as Joe Gardener. He is the host and executive producer of the PBS show Growing a Greener World, and has appeared on various television programs such as NBC's Today Show and ABC's Good Morning America. Joe believes that the world needs more gardens and gardeners, and he shares his knowledge with everyone through his website, joegardener.com.
In this conversation, we dive into Joe's journey in gardening and TV production. He shares the moments that brought him closer to the path he wanted to take, and the challenges he faced as an entrepreneur. Joe talks about what motivates him to keep educating people with generosity and understanding, and he walks us through his day and what's next for his garden and business.
We also discuss the importance of sustainability in gardening and how Joe implements it into his growing operation. Joe shares the mindset you need to be a successful gardener, and how gardening can benefit society as a whole. He also tells us about his least favorite gardening activity and something new he's learned about gardening recently.
Joe emphasizes the importance of being a good steward to the planet and taking control of your own food production. He shares some basic things you need to start your own garden and talks about his seed starting course and how you can sign up for it.
Join us as we explore Joe's story and why gardening is so important for our minds and the planet. Listen now on the Get Up and Grow Podcast!
We discuss some of the following:
• Joe’s story in gardening and tv production.
• How he has adapted to new forms of media to reach new growers.
• How he continues to stay motivated and teach new gardeners.
• Why people learning to garden is so important.
• Something he has learned about gardening recently and his least favorite gardening activity.
• What kind of a mindset you need to be a successful gardener and what kind of mindset can you develop through gardening.
• Why sustainability in gardening is so important.
• How you can take control of your own food production.
• How you can get started growing your own garden in any space.
Please check out the following links to what we discussed on the podcast today:
Joe's website where you can sign up for gardening courses, checkout his podcast, download free growing guides and more is available here: http://www.joegardener.com/
Joe's latest book The Vegetable Gardening Book: Your complete guide to growing an edible organic garden from seed to harvest is available on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gardening-Book-complete-growing/dp/0760375712/ref=sr_1_2?crid=282W0MM40FH4E&keywords=joe+gardener&qid=1681817439&sprefix=joe+gardene%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-2
This Podcast is dedicated to growers like you so we appreciate your feedback so we can provide the best experience possible for the grower community.
Now Get Up & Grow!
Taylor S.
To learn more about our Podcast, our Grower Community Blog or our Grow Light Academy checkout our website here: https://activegrowled.com/
One second.
[Taylor]:Hi, Joe. Welcome to the podcast.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Hey Taylor, thanks for having me. It's good to be here.
[Taylor]:Yeah, we appreciate you making the time. I know you're busy with, you know, the classes you're teaching right
[Joe Lamp'l]:Oof.
[Taylor]:now. I don't know if you're on seed starting
[Joe Lamp'l]:We just
[Taylor]:or
[Joe Lamp'l]:finished,
[Taylor]:vegetables
[Joe Lamp'l]:we just finished our biggest
[Taylor]:or.
[Joe Lamp'l]:course ever. Uh, it's called organic vegetable gardening. We've been working on it for almost two years. Took all year off last year to film it. So we didn't take off. We just turned everything else off that we would normally be doing like a television show and focused on filming this for this new course. And literally last night at midnight, we closed the doors to enrollment. So now we can work with our students. I don't even know how many people are on board, but I think we had a really good turnout and I'm super excited. So it's nice to have a breather day and talk to you because it's been really hectic up and up until it's always hectic, but it's just a little less hectic today. So I'm glad I'm here with you.
[Taylor]:Oh yeah, I appreciate it. And so the courses are done. It's now just dealing with the students and having
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah,
[Taylor]:them
[Joe Lamp'l]:yeah.
[Taylor]:follow the
[Joe Lamp'l]:I mean,
[Taylor]:course.
[Joe Lamp'l]:I basically coach them and mentor them through a year long program. And I can't continue to launch new courses or create new courses if I'm working with them and dedicated to them. And, you know, they've got a good investment in the tuition. I don't want to make sure that they feel like they're getting their money's worth and then some. And so that requires just a lot of attention. But that's what I like to do. I like to teach. And so that's kind of a collective group of like minded people that want to learn how to grow organically their food gardens. And so that's what we're doing.
[Taylor]:I mean, I'm I'm I know who you are. I'm sure a lot of people do in the US You've been all over TV for the past few years What are some things you can just say to people that might not know
[Joe Lamp'l]:Ha
[Taylor]:who
[Joe Lamp'l]:ha.
[Taylor]:you are How did you first get into gardening? That's maybe the first
[Joe Lamp'l]:Sure.
[Taylor]:question
[Joe Lamp'l]:So I grew up in Miami, Florida, and I was the youngest of four boys. And so my next oldest brother to me was five years older than me. And so on the weekends, this is going back when I was eight years old. This is why I'm telling you this is that I'd follow my dad around on the weekends because he was the weekend warrior. You know, he had his week job is suit and tie job during the week. And on the weekends, he'd mow the grass and edge the driveway and trim the bushes. And so my 13 year old brother would be out hanging out with his friends and everything. So it was just me and dad, which was great. I loved not sharing anybody else with him for the weekend. I tag along behind him and just hang out with him. And so at the end of one day on a Saturday, he walks in the house and he's done. I still got a lot of energy in me. So I'm running around and I run by this branch that he, this shrub that he just got through pruning or clipping and I broke one of the branches off. I'm like, oh my God, now what do I do? So I didn't want to get caught. So not knowing what to do, I just covered my tracks. I stick that broken branch into the ground right there by the base and covered it up with soil and went about my business. And then like two months later, I came back by there and I recognized that that was the branch or the plant that where I broke the branch, but I couldn't find the dead branch because the dead branch had sprouted new leaves and it was putting on new roots. And I was like, what the heck is happening here? This is unbelievable. It was so cool. And literally that was my moment where I knew that I needed to know more. And Taylor, honestly, that I never stopped from that point. You could not turn me off from wanting to know more about how plants grow. And I wanted to grow more plants and I started seeds and I had a little nursery business. And I mean, it's just never it's never slowed down from there. And obviously today, to answer your question, this is my third national television show. This one I created in 2009 called Growing a Greener World. It's a national show on PBS. But my entree into television was 20 years ago when I was hosting for DIY Network. They picked me to be the host of their show called Fresh from the Garden. And it was teaching people how to grow food. Every episode was one episode at a time, one crop at a time. So like one whole show would be how to grow tomatoes from seed to harvest. The next one would be corn and beans and then whatever for 52 of those episodes. And then it retired because we ran out of things to teach people to grow. But, you know, I always introduce myself as Joe Lample, the Joe behind Joe Gardner. Joe Gardner is my brand and joegardner.com is my main website. I have my podcast, The Joe Gardner Show and then the television show I mentioned, Growing a Greener World. And then, The online gardening academy is where I'm spending a lot of time. We just let off talking about that and that's the online courses. And we've got, you know, maybe seven out there now and a lot of students and I love it. So I stay busy all the time and I love what I do. So that's a good thing.
[Taylor]:Yeah, wow. It's such a trajectory and like since eight
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah,
[Taylor]:years old to now, just
[Joe Lamp'l]:I know.
[Taylor]:going forward on every level
[Joe Lamp'l]:Right.
[Taylor]:with the gardening and you and through media, you've probably seen so many changes
[Joe Lamp'l]:so
[Taylor]:and
[Joe Lamp'l]:much.
[Taylor]:adaptations. I mean, you're running your
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:own thing now and Instagram,
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:Instagram growers
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:are becoming a thing and just like from television to that,
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:like, what do you think of the shifts
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:that are happening? Like you've you've definitely kept
[Joe Lamp'l]:Well,
[Taylor]:the times as
[Joe Lamp'l]:I have,
[Taylor]:well.
[Joe Lamp'l]:I've tried, you know, it's even hard as fast as it moves, as everyone knows these days. But if you're in media, you got to understand where the people are and how it's evolving. And for example, you know, television, traditional broadcast television, and raising funds and underwriting money and stuff like that, the money isn't really getting poured into television anymore. And so like, nor really is the audience that you're after. And so we evolve with that. And we think about how How long do we keep the television show going versus shifting over to maybe more YouTube style or high-end video production or these courses and so we're always evolving and thankfully I have a really good team and We it keeps us busy trying to stay on top of it all man. It's exhausting
[Taylor]:Yeah, your stuff is
[Joe Lamp'l]:Thank
[Taylor]:top
[Joe Lamp'l]:you.
[Taylor]:notch though. I mean, everything you've ever put
[Joe Lamp'l]:Thank
[Taylor]:out is
[Joe Lamp'l]:you.
[Taylor]:so solid. So that's great that you've kept up through all the changes. But like, I wanted to ask you, because like, did you just appear one day on a set and someone was like, oh, you're hired? Or like, how do you credit your success in television? Like, how did that opportunity come about? Were you just in the right place at the right time or
[Joe Lamp'l]:A little
[Taylor]:what?
[Joe Lamp'l]:of that, but when DIY Network was doing their national search for the host, they were putting out an email blast to everybody in media that was like a writer or somebody that might know the person that they were looking for. They knew what they wanted in the host, but they didn't know who that host was yet. So one of those people got an email that I had never met in person, but she was a magazine editor who had asked me to write a column for a magazine before I even wrote the first column. She got that email and she emailed me and she said, Joe, this. DIY Network is looking for a host of a gardening television show and they're describing who they're looking for and it's you. You need to get in touch with them and let them know you're the one they're looking for. So I said, huh, all right. So I took her lead and I followed up and I introduced myself and I convinced the producer to meet me for lunch and I couldn't tell if he liked me or not. But a week later, he called me back and said, hey, I talked to my producer about you and we really want to get you on a screen test to see how you do. I'd never been on television before. I didn't know.
[Taylor]:Okay.
[Joe Lamp'l]:I watched all the gardening shows, but that's as far as it went. But I also, I was good.
[Taylor]:Mm-hmm.
[Joe Lamp'l]:I was a horticulturist. I knew my stuff. I was confident. And that's how I was able to be successful when I did the screen test. I really wasn't intimidated by the camera. Even though the day I showed up, there's the whole crew, the lights, the sound guys, the cameras, but because I was, they were having me talk about what I knew so well that I could talk about it in my sleep, I just did that. I felt silly. walking and pretending I'm the host of a show and you know going through the lines over and over because they kept having me do It over and over and over again and no feedback and I'm like, this is weird You know, they're not even telling me any constructive criticism or anything,
[Taylor]:Right.
[Joe Lamp'l]:but they had me do it several times and then it was like, okay Thanks very much. We'll let you know. It's like what I mean, that's how this ends I don't even know if I'm gonna get called back I don't know but a week later they called me back and they told me there I was their top male pick and they Were evaluating everything but they were looking at females too and they'd know within a month and it took a month, I got a call and they told me they had narrowed it down. Well, before that, they told me they narrowed it down to one female and one male, but they were only going with one host and whichever gender they ended up with was who's gonna be the host. So a week later, they called me and said, I got the job. But the reason why I was able to be successful at it and why I convinced them
[Taylor]:Thank
[Joe Lamp'l]:and
[Taylor]:you.
[Joe Lamp'l]:why I've done well since with television is because I'm talking about a subject I know and love and pour my life into. It's my avocation and my vocation. And... I can, if I'm talking about something I know about, I'm good, but I'm a terrible actor. So don't have me try to teach you how to cook something or build something. But if you want me to be on television about gardening, I'm your guy. And that's how it's translated through gardening. But I think I would fail miserably if it was any other subject.
[Taylor]:Well, when you were young, I read a little bit of your story. You said that you as a kid wanted to go straight
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:into gardening right away, but your mother convinced you to go to school and go to business school instead. Did that help you at all? Do
[Joe Lamp'l]:In
[Taylor]:you
[Joe Lamp'l]:addition
[Taylor]:think that was
[Joe Lamp'l]:to,
[Taylor]:a good idea?
[Joe Lamp'l]:yes, she was a brilliant woman, high school teacher, smartest woman I ever met. And she said, look, I'm fully supportive of that. But while you're there, why don't you get a double degree and get it in business so that when you come out, you've got more options. And she was right because when I was ready to go to work, everybody's recruiting for business and there weren't many people banging down the door for horticulturists or garden people. So I entered the business world, but fortunately I wasn't there long. And I knew I was only gonna be there as long as it took for me to find what I really wanted to do and where my heart was with Horticulture. I'd never envisioned it being a television show to be my entree, but it did give me the springboard that I needed to have a national platform and recognition and build my brand. And to your point, the business degree was golden for me because it really gave me that sense of what I needed to do business-wise to be a... public gardener and make a living at it. So it was a really good combination. So thanks mom. Yeah.
[Taylor]:Yeah, thanks mom. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's awesome. I mean, like you're such a positive guy. You've been doing this as long as you have. I mean, a question I have is like, what makes Joe Joe? Like by that, I mean, like you have such a beautiful website, so much content, all this knowledge, like what motivates you to keep educating people with such a positive and caring attitude?
[Joe Lamp'l]:because there's no reason not to be positive and no reason not to be caring and there's too many mean people and I refuse to be one of them. And I just think the world needs more gardeners. And if I am the one to help add a few of those to the list, let me be that person or let me be Joe Appleseed, whatever. I want people to love gardening as much as I do because I am so fulfilled by it. I love it more today than I did yesterday and tomorrow I'm gonna love it more than I do today and I've been that way ever since I was eight because it's just such a sense of wonder and it's no two days are the same and it's not in your control which is a really good thing because to your point about you know having all this high-end quality to everything I do that's a little bit of a control freak issue you know and I think why I love gardening so much is that it humbles me and anyone that thinks that they can get an edge up on Mother brings you, it grounds you, it literally grounds you. And people are happy when they're out gardening and their hands are in the soil and they're breathing fresh air, they're away from their devices and not in front of their screens. And it's like, we need more of that. And so with my enthusiasm and my passion for it and my love of teaching that I think I got through my mother again, I use what I know and the contacts I have and the resources that I have before me to try to make it an inviting. situation for as many people as possible, and I'll keep doing that until I'm compost.
[Taylor]:We appreciate you sharing. I mean, I know you have content that's paid, but you also have a ton of content that's free.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Right.
[Taylor]:And yeah, I was just looking at your website. I'll share it towards the end, but I
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:just wanna go through a little bit of your website with you for people.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:But like, yeah, you said like why it's important to teach, why gardening is important. Like what do you see as the next thing? You have so much going on now, what's next? It's like.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Um,
[Taylor]:What's next
[Joe Lamp'l]:w w
[Taylor]:for
[Joe Lamp'l]:in
[Taylor]:Joe?
[Joe Lamp'l]:the field, you mean? Yeah. I mean, I mean, to me, this is, this is where I live, you know, this is my universe. And, uh, so continuing to teach people, inspire people, find out what people's needs are to meet those needs. You know, I feel like I, um, on the, on the front, front and the front lines on the cutting edge of just kind of being in the know of what, what people are wanting and what they need, what they don't know, what's not out there yet that we can create. And again, because not only myself, but my team, we have our finger on the pulse of what gardeners are thinking and doing and wanting. And that's why we try to be out there ahead of the masses to be that person. And so we're always looking, but I think for you, for me, it's to actually create enough content that people can access it free or paid for depending on what they want to. So there's not a gap that we're aware of, which allows me... to scale a little bit more because right now, I mean, we're going so hard, so fast, and have been for so long. I need a little breathing room. And so I'm trying to scale back a little bit because I have a great team that that will that allows me to do that and do a little more traveling with my wife because you know, so much of what I do is traveling related and it's work. You know, it's not pleasure trips, although they're fun, but I'm producing a television show and I'm on the road. And so I'm the executive producer, the host, the kind of the writer. the guy that's watching the clock to make sure we make our flights and our connections and get the guests to say what they're supposed to say. And it's just like so much. And so I'm not a good traveling companion when I'm on a work trip. But now I'm doing some more overseas trips for garden tours and kind of leading those and seeing places I've never been to before. And that's fun and sharing some of that experience with people and, you know, just trying to smell the roses a little more, you know? but being responsive as possible.
[Taylor]:Yeah, I saw you have something coming up in September. You're going to France
[Joe Lamp'l]:Is
[Taylor]:and
[Joe Lamp'l]:it
[Taylor]:Italy.
[Joe Lamp'l]:September? Yeah. Yeah. October, September, France, and we're going to
[Taylor]:I think
[Joe Lamp'l]:Southern,
[Taylor]:so.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Northern Italy and South of France. Yeah. Southern France. And then a few more trips after that that are on the books already for, um, uh, Costa Rica and South Africa and some other places. Yeah. So some of more of that is good, but, um, I'm a homebody too. The funny thing is I don't really love to travel. because I like—I like where I live. I like my garden. I like my greenhouse now and I—I love being home. I love—I love this environment. So, I'm trying to make up for a little lost time for pleasure traveling and taking my wife to go on trips that she's never been on either because she—she deserves that too. She's been very patient with me. So, we're having some fun with that. Dr. Justin Marchegiani, I'm gonna go ahead and turn it over to you. I'm gonna turn it over to you. I'm gonna turn it
[Taylor]:That's what's going on in the future
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:for you. That's good. Can you walk us, I know you're so busy, every day is probably
[Joe Lamp'l]:Mm-hmm.
[Taylor]:different than the other, but could you walk us through
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:a day on your farm of just
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:work that you do?
[Joe Lamp'l]:So I get up at five and sometimes earlier, but I'm kind of working by five ish. And, uh, I have to, because I'm an early riser anyway, but, uh, it's important that I get the most important things off my plate first, and for me, it's taking care of my students. And so that's, uh, that's a lot of people now with all our courses out there. And the fact that we've been out there since 2018, um, And so there's a lot of questions from them and they deserve my attention first because honestly they're paying a tuition and they deserve that. So I make sure that I address them as much as I can. First thing through the online community, the course platform and some other places where they have access. So that's the first thing. And then I'm going through the social media channels and responding to everybody that's got a question or comment that deserves a comment back. Uh, and I'm, I'm one that has a hard time not responding back, you know, so I probably spend more time than I should in that, that area, but I'm a people pleaser, you know, so I'm always, you know, making a point of acknowledging people's efforts to reach out to me, you know, they deserve an answer back. And so I don't think you can ever be too busy to, to not forget, you know, these people look to you as one of their mentors, you know, and, uh, I know that's the case for me and so I want to. I want to not disappoint and I want to be able to provide those teachable moments. So it takes some extra hours a day, which is why it starts so early. And then I'm down working with my
[Taylor]:Hmm.
[Joe Lamp'l]:team and mainly my director of marketing and communications, Amy Prentice, and we're huddling up every morning for a Zoom call and then we're mapping out our day. And then depending on what what I'm working on, it's either, you know, podcast writing, podcast review, editing that, creating new videos for our brand partners or creating course content. for my platforms or gardening, there's that too. But the funny thing is, it's
[Taylor]:Yeah.
[Joe Lamp'l]:my pleasure gardening is on the weekends. My gardening during the week, although it's pleasure, it's because we're creating content, we're shooting videos or we're making, doing research or something like that. So it's all work related. And so there's always that the clock is ticking or their production value issues that we're dealing with. And so it takes a little bit of the fun out of it, but it could be worse. I could be doing something
[Taylor]:Hmm.
[Joe Lamp'l]:I really don't like at all. But... that's not going to happen. So
[Taylor]:Yeah, what gardening, what gardening chore do you least look forward to doing?
[Joe Lamp'l]:You know, what jumped out at me right away was like weeding, but I don't even mind weeding. I actually pulled back on that answer because weeding to me is kind of zen, you know, especially after it's rained and the ground is soft and you're out there by yourself and the birds are singing, but there's no one else out there and you're just pulling weeds. And if they come up easily, that's the difference between hating it and not minding it. And so I wait for a soft, I wait for, we've had plenty of rain lately, so there's no problem with the weeds coming up, but they come, you know, even with me and the things that I do. I'm an organic gardener, so I'm not out there spraying pesticides or herbicides or any of that. So when it comes to weeding, it's hand pulling. But you know, you just try to stay on top of it and do a little bit every week and it's never overwhelming. So that, that said, I mean, I kind of like it all. I'd have to think about what it is I don't like about gardening. Yeah.
[Taylor]:Hehehe
[Joe Lamp'l]:Oh, just probably protecting the, I have a lot of deer around here and I'm not doing a good job of. protecting my plants from the deer. So that's something I keep putting off that I need to do. And I'm not looking forward to that, but it needs to be done.
[Taylor]:I know you've been doing this a while. What's something new you've learned about gardening recently?
[Joe Lamp'l]:Um,
[Taylor]:I'm sure you learn something every day,
[Joe Lamp'l]:you
[Taylor]:you
[Joe Lamp'l]:know,
[Taylor]:know, from like people asking you different questions, different,
[Joe Lamp'l]:yes,
[Taylor]:yeah, but.
[Joe Lamp'l]:yes. Well, what I, what I really love is getting into the geeky side of gardening, like the soil science and the, and the chemistry of science and the biology of it and learning more about the microbiology and the soil with the, you know, the fungi and the bacteria and the, and the pH and the cation exchange capacity and all. I just love reading the geeky stuff about gardening that isn't typically the first thing that you're going to find in a general gardening article. But the more of that I can find and read, the more I understand that enables me to explain in my words, after distilling out all that geeky stuff, to help the new gardener or the person that's trying to get better but doesn't really want to go into the depths of understanding all of that science behind it. And so I'm always trying to better myself and broaden my knowledge. at a deeper level so that I can apply that to explain the why do behind the how to. That's something I always tell people. It's important to understand the why do behind the how to so that it's good to know the steps of what you need to do to make that successful, but it's better for you to understand why you need to do those steps so that you can apply that information when mother nature throws you that curve ball. I often describe it as like the difference between being a cook and a chef. with a cook, you just follow the recipe card, which is fine. But the chef can go into a pantry without a recipe card and somebody can say, well, make me something. And the chef can look at the ingredients in the pantry and use their mind to know what ingredients work together and what doesn't work together and come up with some amazing dish because of their depth of knowledge. And so that's what I try to be from a gardening standpoint.
[Taylor]:can relate to that as a lighting person starting my business, I was very tech heavy
[Joe Lamp'l]:Mm-hmm.
[Taylor]:with this, you know, the spectrum
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes, yes, yes.
[Taylor]:wavelengths and how you have to use this much light, this much PPFD. But I've become a lot better at explaining to people like, okay, this is the spectrum you need for strawberries at this
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:stage, or this is the light you need for this at this specific stage. So spoon feeding information because otherwise it's overwhelming.
[Joe Lamp'l]:You know, Taylor, it's great that you even said that because, um, one of the reasons I was so attracted to you, you and your company and your, your website is just the level of information you are providing that was satisfying my thirst and need to know more than what you're going to see on an Amazon site for grow lights, you know? And I could tell that you, you were making a very good effort and doing a great job serving the people like me that wanted to know that information. that weren't able to find it elsewhere. So kudos to you for that, but I'm glad you said that because I meant to, I don't know that I've ever told you that, but I mean, that's how I first really, you know, you were kind of my go-to like company guy because of that. You know, I appreciated that and I wanted to help support that.
[Taylor]:Thanks for the shout out. No, I mean, it's about balancing your knowledge and your tech side with the inviting side to people that don't know that
[Joe Lamp'l]:Right,
[Taylor]:much, but you wanna get them
[Joe Lamp'l]:exactly,
[Taylor]:over to that side. So it's finding that middle
[Joe Lamp'l]:exactly.
[Taylor]:ground. But yeah. I feel like I want to get into something with you about mindset.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Mm-hmm.
[Taylor]:Like, what kind of a mindset do you need to have to be an effective gardener?
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:You said you wake up at five
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:and you're positive.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yep.
[Taylor]:What is the mindset you need and what is the mindset you can develop through gardening?
[Joe Lamp'l]:I think you need to have a mindset of... constantly trying to improve without ever trying to pursue perfection because that would be the biggest waste of your time. There's too many curve balls going on all the time. It's always changing. I said, you know, no two days are the same. And so gardening is this experience. You know, you're working. I'm just in awe of nature. And to be able to get my hands and have some influence. not control, but influence on what happens in the garden and with the soil and seeing the results of my efforts combined with what I know from learning and what I've seen from experience to try to have even a better garden the following year. So there's this built-in optimism as a gardener, even if you had a terrible year, as long as you're willing to think, well, next year is gonna be better, there you go. You're gonna get after it next year. And so that gives you that hope and that drive and that interest in wonderment, you know, of like, well, what's next year gonna be like? And how can I do this differently? And why did that happen? And how do I make it better next year? You know, cause there's always next year. And to me, that attitude of knowing that combined with admitting that you cannot control it. You can influence it, but you can't control it. That's a relief, you know, that's a little bit forgiving. It's a... comforting, reassuring, you know? And then you team up with other like-minded people who get you and you get them for our quirks and our interest in those kinds of things. And you got this comradery. And so you can be as active with other people doing what you love to do if you want to. But if you are an introvert, soloist, you can be out there by yourself 24 seven. So there's something for everybody. And in... I just think that's so cool, you know? Just so cool.
[Taylor]:Yeah, I think that's, I mean, through that over the years, gardening, there's something to look forward to, but can you develop some kind of peace, you think? Or is there always like, gosh darn it, like, why didn't this do that?
[Joe Lamp'l]:It does.
[Taylor]:Or is there some, because you're kind of slowing down, is there a slowing down, kind of
[Joe Lamp'l]:that,
[Taylor]:slowing down your mind as well?
[Joe Lamp'l]:let me tell you, that's up to the gardener or the person that's, you know, into this experience as to how, how they choose to pursue it. And for a guy who is quality driven and, um, driven period, you know, uh, I, I am a reforming control freak when it comes to the garden and in life, but, um, and I, you know, just think that comes with time, but gardening enough and realizing, you know what? I know enough to know that this is not the end of the world. As bad as this looks, or for somebody that doesn't know, they might be freaking out about it. I've learned to take so much of that in stride and know that I can fix that, or even when I can't fix it. Just to know that you can't fix it is cool. Fine. And the stakes are so low with gardening, it's like, okay, so that was a pack of seeds or a plant or whatever. I mean, there's just never a huge investment. And so. as you mature in your endeavors, that is liberating as can be. And so you could be that super stressed person and try to control everything, but sooner or later you realize that you can't. And the sooner you recognize that, the better for your sanity.
[Taylor]:Yeah, thank you for that. So that's about mindset. You can try to control something, but then you develop maybe less controlling tendencies and go
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:for it.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah. Just an example, just an,
[Taylor]:Yeah, like you said, it applies to everything.
[Joe Lamp'l]:it does apply
[Taylor]:Yeah.
[Joe Lamp'l]:to everything, but it's like, you know, this it's interesting because like today we're doing our first day of opening plant sale for all the 2,700 seedlings I have in the greenhouse. And this is my first year with the greenhouse. So I, I have no experience growing in a greenhouse, but I have a lot of experience
[Taylor]:That's new.
[Joe Lamp'l]:growing under lights and then growing them out until they're ready to go outside entirely
[Taylor]:Thank you.
[Joe Lamp'l]:indoors. And so last year, as an example, you know, we were coming up on our frost free day, which is when everybody wants to buy your seedlings and we were behind because we'd had a lot of cloudy days and just we were hardening off plants, but they were super small. And it was like we were apologizing to everybody because they were way small than what we wanted to offer. You know, we want to offer a good hardy, stocky product, but they weren't that. But this year, I have the opposite problem. I have plants that are so tall. and so big because of the greenhouse factor after getting them from inside to outside and getting under that natural light. It's like, holy cow. So now this year I'm staking everything. And like just before I came on with you, I've got three people out there plus myself staking up these super tall plants that are going out to the table for sale because it's 180 degree difference from last year. But again, it's like, okay, next year I know that I'm not gonna start my
[Taylor]:Ahem.
[Joe Lamp'l]:seed so early. You know, it's like, okay, so this is fine. I already know what I'm gonna do next year.
[Taylor]:You learn.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:How important is sustainability to growing? And how have you taken the steps to implement it into your garden?
[Joe Lamp'l]:To me, it's everything.
[Taylor]:That's a big part.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah, it's a big part. Gardeners, there's, even before COVID, there were like 90 million. And so it's gotta be well over a hundred something now. And so if you think about collectively the impact, positively or negatively, that gardeners can have in their own little corner of the earth, just that, whether it's a condo or an apartment balcony or a little urban. bungalow or a hobby farm like I've got and five acres. It's like what we do under our watch and how we grow, we grow, and how we use what we use as we do it influences everything. You know, it's the collective thing. I'm me by myself going to change dramatically what happens around me. Maybe not, but I'm going to darn well make sure that whatever is under my watch, I'm being a good steward of it. And I'm going to, I'm going to not only pay attention to how well I can grow my plants, but how I impact the environment around so I have a healthy ecosystem and a biodiverse, thriving environment that brings in beneficial insects and birds. I don't ever have to worry about the fact that something I use is going to have a residual effect or unintended consequences to birds that eat the bugs that I might have sprayed a pesticide on. Now, the birds die. That's not happening under my watch. We need to be more mindful of that because with habitat loss… and urban sprawl and just the fact that animals don't have anywhere to go anymore. And so they're being forced to locations that aren't natural to them, but it's where humans live and humans want what they want when they want it and because of instant gratification and their lust for all these things, they want a quick fix. And oftentimes those quick fixes have severe unintended consequences. And so I'm doing everything I can under my watch and under my make people aware that they have choices and what the positive and negative consequences are of their actions.
[Taylor]:So when your course is like, you do go into, you could do it this way or
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yep.
[Taylor]:you could do it that
[Joe Lamp'l]:Well,
[Taylor]:way. Like,
[Joe Lamp'l]:I
[Taylor]:I
[Joe Lamp'l]:mean,
[Taylor]:know you, yeah.
[Joe Lamp'l]:I make people aware of their options, but I don't recommend that they do
[Taylor]:Ahem.
[Joe Lamp'l]:it anyway, other than organic approaches, because that's who I am. And so I, you know, I mean, I believe in providing the objective information so they're educated and then they understand their options. But then I'm going to damn be sure that I'm putting in my recommendation and why, you know, I always believe that, you know, when you add your why, you feel a certain way or feel so strongly about something, it helps explain your position, but it helps people also understand, get a better picture of why that makes sense when you explain more than just the basic information.
[Taylor]:The greenhouse is new. That's a nice way to save energy with natural sunlight.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah,
[Taylor]:That's going to be a help.
[Joe Lamp'l]:it has been amazing. And you know, I don't even it's got power in it too. But I don't even run heat out there if the temperature is going to be above like 37 Fahrenheit. Because I know that here's another thing, you know, I've learned over time what plants can take and what they can take and they can take cooler temperatures than I think people realize. And so you know, I'm not plugging in heaters out there unnecessarily or running lights or fans and things that I don't need to run. And, you know, I haven't fertilized a single thing out there from the times I've sowed everything from January with my January 1st with my peppers and February with my tomatoes, nothing's been fertilized. And so even organically, you know, it, it takes resources to make that stuff, especially non organic products. And, um, that's just another way that my desire to be a good steward plays into what I do.
[Taylor]:How can growing at home be beneficial to an individual or society as a whole? You were kind of touching on that earlier.
[Joe Lamp'l]:because because
[Taylor]:How do you see this? I mean, the world's changing, like food prices
[Joe Lamp'l]:Food.
[Taylor]:are rising. Like, is this, is this stuff important?
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes. Okay. So, I mean, yes, my gosh, the prices lately more than ever, the food prices, taking control over what you grow or what you put into your body is very important for a lot of us. And for me, you know, that's a big part of why I do what I do with all the food that I grow is I want to know what I'm eating and how it's grown. And so I can control that from the start with the seeds that I buy being certified organic, even knowing that they've been grown organically before I ever get to them and supporting. those companies are going the extra effort to grow out organically. They're good stewards too and I want to support them. So I get their seeds. I grow it out and know that you know nothing's tainted it and I've got super resilience because the farmers that grow the plants to produce the seed are handpicking the most resilient plants that they've been working with. So that natural selection is passing forward to me. So that's a cool thing. But growing our own food, taking control over what goes into our body. being good stewards so that we minimize the amount of food miles that all of this food is coming from, from overseas and across the country. And you know, supporting, even if we're not growing it ourselves, supporting our local farmers and our farmers markets and things like that, that's, you know, it all, it's all part of the big picture. And it's important that we do that combined with the sense of wellbeing, having a healthy diversion, getting out. from getting away from the television or the screens and family time, my gosh, you know, if you're a young parent or an old parent with kids or grandkids, or you could be a mentor to a community, to a school and teach them in their, I mean, gardening, I mean, it's more than just growing and growing pretty flowers or eating healthy food. It's a mindset, it's a lifestyle. There's every educational application can be applied. through gardening to English, math, science, art, literature, geometry, everything. And so, um, there's just, I don't know many ways that gardening is not connected for the betterment of mankind if you, if you allow it to be, so we all need to be growing something.
[Taylor]:Yeah, I think especially during the pandemic when we had a chance to be around family a little bit more
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:in our communities, like people really did start taking up gardening. I think there was a big shift. I don't know if you saw that
[Joe Lamp'l]:Oh,
[Taylor]:or
[Joe Lamp'l]:I did.
[Taylor]:if it's still happening or teetering off or.
[Joe Lamp'l]:It's tapered off, but I mean, we had a
[Taylor]:Yeah.
[Joe Lamp'l]:20, 21, we had a good 20, 20. Little did we know. I mean, we were just doing what we were doing, but being in the gardening profession was a good place to be during the pandemic and, you know, with our online courses that really helped. And 2021 was even better than 2020. And then it tapered off in 22, cause life kind of got back to normal and people started getting back to what they were used to beforehand. And yet we still have a lot of gardeners in this course that we just closed last night. Uh, I think we had a really great turnout for enrollment. So I'm encouraged by that.
[Taylor]:Yeah, me too. Well, how does someone that sees you as an inspiration, like how would they take the first step to starting their own garden? Like what basic things do they need? Like what do they
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:need to do?
[Joe Lamp'l]:So I mean, I, you know,
[Taylor]:Go to your
[Joe Lamp'l]:well,
[Taylor]:website.
[Joe Lamp'l]:yeah, I mean, Joe Gardner.com, Joe Gardner.com is really a darn good place to start because I really, um, the content I create could be, you know, pretty heady or pretty complex complex if I wanted it to be, but that doesn't foster new gardeners. You know, what I want to be is, is that person that is attracting a new, a new class of gardeners in, They typically don't start off learning about PPFD or stuff like that. So let me teach them about getting your soil right and why that's so important and things like that. So joke.
[Taylor]:Do you
[Joe Lamp'l]:Please
[Taylor]:mind if
[Joe Lamp'l]:do.
[Taylor]:I share
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah, that'd
[Taylor]:your
[Joe Lamp'l]:be
[Taylor]:website?
[Joe Lamp'l]:great.
[Taylor]:Okay. Oh, so continue on. You know what I really like about your website? There's a button that says start
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:here.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah. I haven't
[Taylor]:because
[Joe Lamp'l]:looked at that
[Taylor]:there's
[Joe Lamp'l]:page
[Taylor]:just
[Joe Lamp'l]:in
[Taylor]:so
[Joe Lamp'l]:a while.
[Taylor]:much
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:content.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:Okay. So you have maybe, you know, you got videos, podcasts, blog. I mean, I went here and I was just like, oh my gosh, there's so much
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:going on
[Joe Lamp'l]:And
[Taylor]:here.
[Joe Lamp'l]:then, you know, the, the, the,
[Taylor]:Prepare
[Joe Lamp'l]:the podcast,
[Taylor]:plant.
[Joe Lamp'l]:you know, we just, uh, we are six years in, we've just passed 10 million downloads and we're the top podcast in Apple for gardening, but I tell you that just because that's a really great place as you're finding out to connect with an audience and when we do a podcast, we do extensive show notes. I have a writer. that listens to the podcast recording before it's posted and writes a dedicated blog post for every episode we've done. And we're up to three, episode 307 right now. So that's a lot of information on every topic. I mean, I don't know that there's a topic we haven't covered. It's almost like what's next? What's new that we haven't talked about? Like Bonsai, I mean, I...
[Taylor]:And you're talking with experts
[Joe Lamp'l]:Experts,
[Taylor]:here, Banzai, yeah.
[Joe Lamp'l]:yeah,
[Taylor]:It's
[Joe Lamp'l]:we go for the
[Taylor]:just...
[Joe Lamp'l]:top people in their field for sure. We, it's important. It, you know, for... for the reasons we've already talked about. I like
[Taylor]:It's
[Joe Lamp'l]:to
[Taylor]:just.
[Joe Lamp'l]:max out on the people, their level of expertise. And I write a book every now and then too. I saw that show up.
[Taylor]:Okay.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah, it's busy times.
[Taylor]:and you have free guides,
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah, we have
[Taylor]:that's
[Joe Lamp'l]:free
[Taylor]:great.
[Joe Lamp'l]:downloadable guides and we just try to, like you said earlier on, we try to provide a lot of free content. And then for those, for those that want to go deeper, you know, we have the online gardening academy and so that's, that's there for people that aren't getting their needs met with, you know, random YouTube video or trying to read an article or get a book. It's like, those are great and I'm all for those. But when you have follow up questions or you need more information, it's not as easy to just go back to that person and get an update or a follow up question. or go deeper on that topic. And then there's just the lack of continuity of who that information is coming from, the style of it. When you find somebody that you like and you trust and you feel like you know them and they're serving you with that information, you wanna be able to serve them as long as they want to be served. So that's why 307 episodes in, I'm still doing a weekly podcast and I don't see any end in sight for that and the quality of the content with the show notes and things. That's all important and that's what people have come to expect. And so, you know, I want to keep doing that.
[Taylor]:Well, if you ever want to do an episode about lighting
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes,
[Taylor]:and you need some help on that, I'll
[Joe Lamp'l]:we're
[Taylor]:be happy
[Joe Lamp'l]:we're
[Taylor]:to do
[Joe Lamp'l]:due
[Taylor]:that.
[Joe Lamp'l]:for another episode on that. So I'll take you up on that.
[Taylor]:All right, can you tell us about your course? How do people get signed up for it? I think some people missed the deadline or is there another one coming
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah,
[Taylor]:up?
[Joe Lamp'l]:that was so if yes. So, um, joegardener.com slash learn will take you to the landing page for the online gardening academy. And there you can see the courses that are evergreen, which you can roll in at any time and, and we've done more of that lately, like beginning gardener fundamentals. You know, that's one where. That's a great course to start with because I covered everything. Somebody that's new to gardening or somebody that's been into it for a few years would want to know to up their game or get started. I love that's the first course we ever did. I love it as much as ever. And we continue to add to it, but it's really, really good resource. There's nothing as, I was gonna say, there's nothing as good like that out there. There's nothing else like it out there. And so there's notification lists like waiting lists. They can add their name to be notified when we open up a new course. Cause most of our courses now I think are evergreen, but some are only open for enrollment once a year, like the one we just launched. And so they'll need to be on a notification list to be... to get an email next time we get ready to open it up so they don't miss the window. Because when we do open it up, it's usually only for a week because those are the ones where I'm most actively involved and we just can't leave it open full time because I can't serve people coming in all through the year. We're moving through the course together at the same time.
[Taylor]:Well, yeah, make sure people that go to your website and get on that newsletter, be ready.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yes.
[Taylor]:Is there any other, before I let you go, I mean, is there any other words of advice you can give for people out there thinking of starting and on the fence, you know, not sure? Like maybe they don't have enough space,
[Joe Lamp'l]:Mm.
[Taylor]:maybe they, you know, there's just so many, what,
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah, I do.
[Taylor]:there's just so many reasons not to do something.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Well, the only reason not to do it is because you, you, you think you don't know where to start or how to start. And, and what I would say to that is don't let that be your barrier to entry. Anybody anywhere can start to grow something, whether it's inside in a windowless apartment, you can do, uh, aeroponics or aquaponics or not aquaponics aeroponics or hydroponics. these countertop gardens with the grow lights that are basically self-contained. I mean, if that's the only thing holding you back, there's no reason to be held back. You can do it. But if you have a balcony or a little sunny spot where you can chase the sun through the day, maybe, get a pot, grow some seeds, figure it out. Just see what happens. Don't worry if it's not gonna produce a big tomato plant or fruit from it, but watch it grow and see where it starts to taper off and then. Ask yourself, why is it not doing as well as it used to? And that you're teaching yourself as you're observing. And those observational moments do for me, teach me more than anything else. And that's why, Taylor, with your grow lights and the seed starting at part of the growth phase of gardening, I feel like I learned more during the seed starting to seedling stage before they go outside than any other time in the plant's life. Because... So much is transforming from the time you take that seed under your watch and put it in the soil and watch it germinate and then nurture it for those six or eight weeks ahead. That to me is the coolest thing ever. And I've been starting seeds for a good part of my life and I look forward to it every year. I mean, I can't wait for seed starting season. And I really think it's like, you know, besides spring season and fall season when the leaves are beautiful and all of that, you know, I think January, February are my favorite other times of the year, not because of the cold weather. but because it's seed starting season. So we can learn so much through our, what a lot of people would call mistakes, but I call them opportunities with gardening because it's not all gonna work out. But when it doesn't ask yourself why, try to figure that out. But the other thing you asked me about, what other advice would I have? Because there's so much information out there, much of it is disinformation because anybody anywhere can put anything out there online. and you don't know what you don't know. So if you're new to gardening and you read something that sounds really good and you think, oh man, this guy's got it figured out, maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But that's the problem is you need to find somebody that you can trust that has a proven
[Taylor]:Thank
[Joe Lamp'l]:track
[Taylor]:you.
[Joe Lamp'l]:record, whether it's me or somebody else, and hang your hat on that person to take you and guide you along the way. Because if they've been at it a while, they've got a reputation, whether it's good or bad, but you're gonna know what it is. And there's that consistency of information and that access to that person typically. And that would be my recommendation. There's just don't spread your two self too thin out there with just, you know, cherry picking little bits from all these different people. Find a few people that you really like
[Taylor]:All right.
[Joe Lamp'l]:and use them as your guides.
[Taylor]:Well, I mean, I hope people come away with this episode, you know, seeing that you are one of those guys. I mean, you've you've been in this for years. You're still doing it. You're changing with the crowd. You're changing with the media. Like you're staying on it. You're staying positive. You're staying forward thinking. So you are definitely one of those guys. And I highly recommend everybody out there to take a look at Joe Gardner and and join all of his videos and newsletters and everything he's got going because it's a lot. And
[Joe Lamp'l]:Yeah.
[Taylor]:you'll never run out of things to look at and learn more about,
[Joe Lamp'l]:Right.
[Taylor]:so.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Right.
[Taylor]:Well, I want to thank you, Joe, for your time. And I hope we can keep in touch and, you know, dive into some of these topics that we discussed. I mean, there's so much more to talk about.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Let's
[Taylor]:So
[Joe Lamp'l]:do it.
[Taylor]:I appreciate you and everything you do for the gardening community.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Well, thank you and everything that you're doing for the community too. You know, there's a, it takes, it takes a village as they say, and you're doing a great job and you keep up the good work too. And congrats on the podcast and, and, and I look forward to having you on my show. And, uh, if I can help you again, just let me know.
[Taylor]:All right, Joe. Thank you, sir.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Thank
[Taylor]:We'll
[Joe Lamp'l]:you.
[Taylor]:be in touch.
[Joe Lamp'l]:Okay. Sounds good, Taylor.
[Taylor]:Adios.
