Maayan Gordon's Journey to Billions of Followers & Views

Every entrepreneur dreams of millions, even billions of followers. Meet Maayan, a visionary who's turned this dream into reality across diverse industries. She isn't just building companies; she's crafting empires using her unique framework.

Despite different industries, Maayan's approach remains the same: understanding what people want. Her ventures excel at making desires a reality. Join us to explore her remarkable journey where the impossible becomes commonplace. Discover the strategies, mindset, and determination that drive her success.

How do you make the right decisions, if you don’t know where you are going? Work with me, and I will get your on the right path.
https://jadawillis.com/work-with-me/

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Transcript

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I'm Jada Willis and this is the Back to Business podcast made for business owners, CEOs and high achievers that are ready to leave their BS excuses behind, get more out of life and see business growth like never before. Let's take the road less traveled and tackle the hard. Are you ready to get back to business. I want to share that I have the most fascinating person that is a guest on B2B. I mean, I can't even believe that she has responded to me, that she's agreed to be on this podcast. I want everyone to welcome my aunt Gordon. I heard it too. I was like three and she heard it. Like, okay, so I need to just throw this out there. You, first off, you're an amazing human, multifaceted, just on so many different planes, but you have, and I have to say this, 2.3 million followers, subscribers on TikTok, and you've actually built multiple six-figure businesses. So this isn't an accident this you didn't do You didn't do it. It's just like, you know one hit wonder you you you have something going on, right? You got something going on over there. There's a lot going on in here. I Think the first thing I mean, there's so much I want to ask you But I think we just start with tell us a little bit about your story who you are You a magical unicorn. Where did you come from? Yeah, so I was born in 1991, so I'm 32 or three years old. One of those, I turned a new number this year. You lose track. Grew up in Seattle, Washington. Went to, had kind of very different school experiences that I think, you know, my early years were very, very formative years too. I think probably for all of us, but I didn't know about other people's lives. So, you know, went to a private Jewish school, because I'm the oldest of four. So when I was growing up, we kept a very strict Orthodox, like all the rules were obeyed in the house, which meant we kept full kosher. My mom also was vegetarian, which meant we were all vegetarian. You know, keeping the Sabbath, so no electricity, no spending money. Yeah, no, you know, going out and doing anything that was considered work. So we wouldn't Sabbath you cook on Friday and prepare everything. Just a lot of rules. Also, the school I went to, girls only wear skirts, so no pants. And then I went from that to all public school, public school where it was pretty much almost all black and African and a little bit of I was one out of like eight to ten white kids at the whole school. It went from a school that was a hundred kids total to a couple hundred kids per class. So it was very, very different. And then it went from that to a very elite, preppy, mostly white private school. You did the tour. You really did the... I tasted all the flavors, even the ones I knew I wouldn't like. Because my mom shoved them in my mouth. So, that I would say was really hard for me. I struggled a lot just socially growing up. I was around when I was in you know the Kind of Jewish community my mom was a scientist very unusual like you know my dad's a midwife also very unusual You know when I was in the public middle school. I was like one of the only white kids And everyone was rich. And like, we weren't poor, but we were, we certainly weren't rich. And these are, you know, families who have buildings named after them type of. Gotcha. Gotcha. And so I was in college, and discovering I hated it, and also discovering I was gonna be in a lot of debt for doing something that I hated. So I dropped out and was doing freelance copywriting, because I figured out that I could make more money with free doing freelance copywriting than I could with a degree of my, like in chemistry. Like the starting salary for a chemist generally is not great. Paying more money to do more school. And so then from there, I was in a traumatic life event. So me and my husband were in a gas explosion in our rental house. And so basically, I thought I was starting to climb out of the trauma pit and let it go. No, no, you gotta go to the bottom of the trauma pit first and then you gotta deal with all of what's down there and then you can climb out. So then I spent, you know, eight years building different businesses as vehicles for my own mental health healing journey. Wow, so your businesses have been a mental health healing journey. I don't wanna stop the flow of this, but I'm really intrigued. No, that's a good pausing point. Yeah, so for me, the thing I care the most about is my own development. I really don't think I could understand how someone else is truly not motivated to figure themselves out because we are so complex and confusing and interesting. And like, we are the ones living the experience. So it seems like pretty beneficial to ourselves to figure ourselves out. So everything to me is through that lens. Like how does this help me figure out reality and existence and what it means to be alive? Because everything else seems kind of like not an important question in the face of that question, which is, so when I was in the gas explosion, that question, like when you think you're about to die, that question blares up in your face and it's all you can see or think about or look at. And then it kind of stays in a place in your mind permanently, forever. And so, really, I mean, up until that point, it was like survival. There was no real intention, like things were happening by accident. Okay, okay. Until the gas explosion. Then it, it like, like both ripped apart the shades I was wearing or took off my shades, but then also showed me something real at the same time. I know, double problem. One, that I really had, you know, dissociated through many psychological coping mechanisms, including like, you know, including adjusting my personality to be overly confident, sarcastic, a little bit arrogant as a way to compensate for internal low self-esteem. But you do it enough, you believe it. And you just think, when you wear shades all the time, you think the world is dark. Right? That's when you forget that it's sunny outside. But then I also had never experienced anything real in the definition of what I wanted real to be. So I think we all grow up and we have ideas about what we would like to experience in our life. And then society and our culture, I think, kind of really diminished that drive to live our life and create our reality. It's true. And I don't mean like, believe the earth is flat and then like, you made it happen. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about how life feels, right? Isn't that kind of what everything else just comes down to, is like, we really care about how life feels. And we're all trying our darndest best to make it feel good. And no one's teaching us how. And there's lots of people trying, right? Like, that's what, you know, Buddhist monks do, right? Like, they're trying to teach you how to deal with all of this in a healthy, positive, hopefully joyful way. And for me that was a really hard thing to figure out and I don't know that I would have, like I needed something to crack. Mm-hmm, definitely. Then before any of it could have gotten through. I really believe that those that have experienced, those of us that have experienced trauma are actually better suited for being an entrepreneur and I Don't know if this is controversial or not But going to be successful in that drive as long as we harness it in a way That's in a positive right because we could choose other directions To get gonna be buried in our trauma or the shades that you talked about the I call them my facades So they look like multi layers Yes, yeah, there's like a lot of different ones. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you get to this chameleon type of state, but it's because of survival. It's because of trying to survive the situation. But it's interesting to me that you say that the businesses were about mental healing. Like, explain that. How is that possible? How are you creating a business? Because when you think about business, it's stressful. So this is how you started the conversation. It's because business is a vehicle for intention making. I cannot think of any other opportunities besides parenting, which I'm using businesses as my test environment before going to parenting. I think a lot of people do it reverse. But we're not judging. There's no right way to parents. Only wrong ways. I'm just kidding. So, you know, everything in business is an intentional decision that you're making. And for me, my life. And I say cultivate it because I think intentions are real, almost frail, fickle type of thing. Like it's a, it's a, it's very strong, but it's got a very thin edge to it. I think if you don't know how to... I'm using an analogy, but if you don't know how to balance, if you don't have the skill of balance to walk the intention tightrope, I think most people fall off of the side. That would be the road paved to good intention. Actually, that turned into a nice analogy. I think that's walking the, you know, the line to heaven, I guess, in that analogy, right? Like, I think- I recently talked to a CEO that said she's always playing whack-a-mole. And so, it's kind of like, just the problems that pop up in business. It hits a balance also of being very thoughtful, strategic, planful, and then being able to easily pivot, be flexible. Yes. Yes. It's a lot like balance in the sense that balance is not the strength of one muscle. It's also not the strength of a lot of muscles. It's the strength of those muscles all working precisely in tune together. Nice. That's great. And so, you know, that's what I saw I could develop in business, through the vehicle of business. And it's really hard to develop specialized skills like that or complex skills because they require, you can't do them willfully. You have to do them, there has to be a pressure force for your brain to be willing to do things that require a lot of energy for it to like compute. Business takes a whole lot of power. That's why I think it's interesting that you say, I mean, I get what you're saying about the mental and the healing piece because business takes a lot of energy. It can be like very, it can be traumatic. But if you're also not doing it right. But so it's fascinating to me that you use something that's actually really hard to do as a way to heal. But I really like, so was your first business the glass blowing? No, that was my third. My first business was a product called 2K Diffuser Beads. Yes, there we go. Okay. And they were airsoft BBs that we repackaged and sold to stoners and smoke shops. Oh my God. What? Hmm. Because we were homeless and didn't have any money to develop a real product. Yeah. So we made one up based off of really fringe knowledge and experiences that me and my husband had. Yeah, that's super creative. And I think it also lends to the people that are listening, they're like, oh my god, I don't have the time, money, whatever, start a business. That's just not true for stuff. I think that we can get creative. And I think it's all about either solving a problem or possibly making people think that they have a problem that needs solved. So. So, and I'm most fascinated by you, I mean, there's so many reasons, but that you're starting successful businesses, but they are not related in my mind, different. Oh, yeah, no, that is really interesting. So how that happened, what happened was, so what happened was, the first business was pure desperation. We were homeless Just trying to find something that was feasible so the first feasible idea That and when I say feasible, so I've always had really good discernment as a skill And it probably comes from like a lot of math classes. Like I don't know I was in really good math programs I think math teaches you really valuable mental problem-solving skills. And so, sorry, I just lost my train of thought. No, that's okay. So you went from diffusers, and that was out of desperation. Oh, yes. So, I had limited resources. I have this much resources, I need to be able to sell the product for a low enough price. So, I knew which factor was important, even though I'd never run a business before. I made, to me, what were logical assumptions of, I have no experience, I'm making up a new product, so the price is really going to matter. People are going to be willing to try it if it's cheaper. That means I have to be able to sell this product for like $50 or less was like the price point. So I worked from what is the most important factor of the business. In the first business, it was a price point because I needed to be able to sell it without anyone having any experience or confidence in the product. was graphic design sticker printing t-shirts. So started doing that because I, when the diffuser bead business was doing really well, I was spending hours every day labeling jars. And like, sometimes the beads, when we'd get them in bulk, would have like little crap pieces of plastic still in there from like the molding. So we'd be like sorting through plastic for like hours every single day, the same stuff. And like, I would rather be, like, homeless and have something interesting happening than in a house but bored. Yeah. So this is like part of just my personality. That's fair. And so I was like, I need to do something interesting. I know how to do graphic design. Let me see if I can turn that into a business. So my first iteration, my first try at that, here's the secret. Okay. Step back. Entrepreneurs, when they're successful, don't tell you about all the things they tried that didn't work. That is it. So it seems like everything they do just works. That's never the case. No. No, no. And it's not the case for me. So like when you said, it just seems like everything you touch turns to gold, it's because I don't stop when the thing I touched didn't turn. I just keep... And so, my first iteration was, or my thought about how to turn a skill into a business said, oh, well, I'll come up with my own sticker designs and I'll sell stickers, which is why it wasn't just a graphic design business or a sticker business. So I made some signs. I put them out on my Facebook and my Instagram, and I said, hey, you can get 20 pack of these stickers for like $5, $3. I started really, really low. Crickets, crickets. So I kept posting, and then someone messaged me and they said, hey, could you print my logo on stickers? And I thought, I went, well, if I could print my designs on stickers, logically I could print other people's designs. There's no physical constraints. Yes, I can do that. Great. How much would that be? Oh, boy. Okay, how much would I need to charge for that? Okay, well, I know my cost. Math, quick. Okay, well, I didn't know anything about margins, anything. I'm just like, my cost is this much, I don't know, add $20? Like, I had no idea what I was doing. And so, yeah, I could do them for this much. Great. So then immediately I said, I don't have a sticker business, I have a sticker printing business. So, I started a sticker business, I thought I was going to be like an artist selling stickers. I've had so many attempts at trying to be a successful artist. The glass blowing business is just when I figured it out. Don't worry. So then I was printing stickers, and I was like, oh, these are going great. I built up a client base that was ordering regularly. So they would order every couple months. So now I went from a product that was a straight consumable, except our wholesale was regularly or recurringly repeatable, but not very consistently. It was very hit or miss. And we didn't have a good inventory management system to help us figure out what was going on. Right. I didn't even know about inventory management back then, to be honest. I was just like, how many jars do we need to make today? Yeah, you're just figuring it out as you went. That's great. Yeah. And so I was like, I've got customers. Let me, if I expand my product line, I'll make more money. Like they'll be buying stickers and t-shirts. And I just like, did not think through the labor parts at all. And so then I was stuck. So we were using one of those hand slicers, paper cutters to cut our stickers. So we would design full sheet stickers, go to Office Depot. I negotiated a special contract with Office Depot to use their full color printers and get discounts to their sticker paper. So our cost on printing was like pennies per full color. And it was fast too. And so I guess part of it has, I've always been intuitive about costing things and like pricing things. But the labor part. So hours a day and I thought t-shirts would be really fun but we like when you don't have credit which we didn't have any credit because I dropped out and didn't loan debt and like had no nothing in my money. You're a homeless entrepreneur, most self-employed people. Yeah, there was nothing. I was just barely learning that I had to pay my taxes. That's a whole nother story What for a homeless we got slapped with $15,000 in IRS Like Yeah, I had to pay my own taxes like no one ever told me I'm just supposed to like know stuff Yes, yeah, welcome to our society. Yeah do another segments like what I learned because I just didn't know like the painful The painful parts of not knowing okay Yeah, absolutely so then we were like picking out the pieces of the vinyl before putting them on the On the heat press so again got stuck in like really loved the business But hated spending hours and hours every day doing the same repetitive task, where there was no skill development in that, right? That part of the business was not a vehicle for anything. So then third business was glass blowing business. And that's where I went back to like, I was like, okay, I've tried this art thing a couple times, but like, what if I have a different mindset? So I started realizing that sometimes it wasn't What I was doing it was what I was thinking when I was doing it sounds like it's blue crazy stuff But literally sometimes that's the only difference between the outcome Agree, so I agree. I want all the listeners to know I agree with this I think that I even think it's kind of like you I think you should show up to meetings and those commitments But also if your vibe is off and take vibrational energy seriously If your mindset is completely not able to to get in the game Then but it's not in my mind going to be the most productive interaction, but Right, and it's kind of like I don't think anything in life is neutral. I think everything has a positive or negative charge to it. I think two things can be in a similar space and like harmonize, but I think, you know, everything is charged one way or another. And so if you're feeling negative, like internally, probably can only make it worse, not better. So I know like a lot of people I used to do this to Where I'd be like, I'm just gonna show up and like, you know power. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna rally Happy I'm gonna pretend in this meeting I'm gonna use my pretend feelings which like we can all tell the pretend feelings No one's fooling anyone in this game that we like to play But no one actually enjoys playing. It's, being a human's so weird, right? Like we have literal systems, we design, we design them. No one, we collectively agree that we all hate them, but like refuse to change them, even though we're the only ones that can. Humans are weird. Yeah. Really weird. All right, okay, bring me back to the glass blowing. I need to know how your mindset shifted. Yes. So, it shifted to, back to skill development. Every time I've ever been able to shift my mindset to skill development, my outcomes are successful. But it's hard because we live in a world that's outcome-focused, not skill-focused. is getting rewarded for having a skill. We're only rewarded for an outcome or a performance. True. It's kind of like, tell me if this is similar. I am big, I can get on a soapbox with the power of progress. Progress is actually what's gonna bring us to the goal if we feel that as humans, hopefully this relates to what we're saying, but if we feel this is humans, then we're going to continue on to, because it's a reward, progress is a reward, and then we continue to do the habit, do the thing that's leading us to that goal. Yeah, so I think everything is, okay, so, you know, I said things are either charged or like positive or negatively charged. So that's when, I'm gonna bring this into some quantum physics, that's when they're observed. Their actual state is both superimposed. So Schrodinger cat. It's getting deep, y'all. So like what I mean is progress, I think is both the best thing ever and the worst thing ever. Yes. The same way any word you could say, which is just a symbol for a mental concept, right? Words are literal symbols for ideas, like these big, flexible, non-physically constrained things. But they're not constrained by physical properties, this is what gives them this superposition, is two things, right, like one of the rules of thermodynamics is like two things can, one of the rules of physics, the basic laws of physics, that's how big a rule it is, is two things cannot exist in the exact same space, right? That's only a physical constraint. That does not apply to mental concepts. Mental concepts can be two completely opposite things at once. It's why like emotions are perfect vehicles and examples for this, right? You can be really happy and really sad at the exact, you're not alternating, you're feeling both. And you're not feeling a third separate thing. It's both of them distinctly at the same time in your same space, right? Because where you'll is, yes, there's physical sensation, but a lot of it's just cognitive mental concept of your own emotion. Like you're creating that emotion. when I shifted, every time I shift to skill development, now I'm doing things for their own sake. So it's kind of like what you were saying about progress, which is its own reward. I think anything that is a reward is by nature a success vehicle or a success indicator. And I have like a whole very well-developed theory around this, which is I'll just shortly drop in here, which we don't have to talk about, but I want to share it. So, you know, I like to try and figure out how things work. And one of the best, you know, biggest questions to ask is how does the universe work? Is there a set of game rules for how like reality, the universe, existence functions? Are there rules to that? And is there one fundamental underlying rule that is all of the rules? That's the most genius type of intelligent design, is like you add one rule that collapsed down into every rule and all of them worked together. So I like that kind of artistic design thought. And so my theory, something I've landed on that would be plausible as a game rule is infinity. Infinity, not as a thing or a number, but as a game design, meaning something cannot have a start or an end. It has to be perpetual. And so I think things that are perpetual are aligned with the game rules, and that's how you win a game. It's to be most aligned with the rules and like to play the game in the best way based on the rules of the game. And so if the rule of the game is infinity, and then I play by infinity, I'm gonna win. Oh my goodness, I want to totally go down this rabbit hole so badly. Because I actually am very like, I don't know if you've ever read The Game of Life. Oh. No, but I've played The Game of Life and made it up close. It's a very old book. It's a very old book, and the author is Florence, can't remember the last name, but read The Game of Life. It is, I mean, she was way ahead of her time, but I agree, kind of in part, we would have to totally dive into this. However, I'm going to get you back to, because I told you, we can have so many conversations about so many things, because we're very aligned. But I do want to ask about the business strategies from a glassblowing perspective. And how did you make it successful? And you have to define what success is to you, but how did you make it successful? Yes. Yeah, so let me take you on the evolution of my definition of success. Because that's how you become successful, you just change the definition. That's it. Or, like, that's the legit kind of tactic. Yes. Success means something different to each person, though. Yes. And it can change for you. Yeah. Like, there's no, you don't owe success anything. Success owes you, okay? Because you're the one putting in the work. You know, I thought about it through the lens of an artist, which is how does an artist define success? So what I always do when I'm looking to find a new, like, way to think about something or perspective that is going to work is I just look for it in a different place. Every group of people have all sorts of like mental frameworks and perspectives that are unique to their group of people that they've developed. So artists have their own unique way of looking at the world, right? It's like part of what makes them art. The same way like dog moms have a unique way of looking at the world, right? Like groups will have different perspectives. And so I said, okay, through an what is success from an artist perspective really is like strictly skill, at least the art world I've been exposed to. It was a big ego game of, you know, who's the best artist, right? Everyone's trying to be, you know, Michelangelo or Michelangelo, however you want to say it, however name you prefer, I don't know. So I was like, okay, well, that's a game I can, one, have fun playing, two, I can win at. So that's how I start out. Is this a game I want to play? Can I win at it? Because if I can't win, I probably don't want to play. So once I just find, okay, this is a game that I would enjoy playing and I think I could win, the third kind of question is, am I going to have enough fun for a long enough time for a strategy to make it likely for me to win. So most success strategies require time as an element. Sorry guys, to inform you, there's no magic button. The lotto does exist, but you're not going to win it. Hey, I, that's, okay. I don't know what to do. Someone has to win. Yeah. So, no, that was my bad. I totally derailed you. I wanted to talk about business strategies as it relates to glassblowing and... Right. Yes. Okay. So I'm getting there. So, with art, I know that art takes many, many years to develop skills at a high level. Like, we're not talking learning how to read, which actually, a couple years, right? I mean, we're talking about 10, 20 years to get to like a master level in art. Like, because I'm not gifted like that. I'm not a savant. Some people, right, they're like four years old and drawing like amazing. So I went okay how can I make it so that I can play that game of developing my art skill, my glassblowing skill. I went okay well if I can break even on my material cost, so if I can make it so that I'm not spending money, I can still trickle in enough from my sticker business to like float me till my skill's enough and then I'll make money proportionate to my skill. And at some point, like boom, I won the game. I get to do something I love doing. I get to be expressive and creative. I get to connect with other people through artwork. I get to be a part of a community. Like it was gonna hit all the boxes. Then I started blowing glass and people started offering to buy my pieces right away. That's amazing! So, yeah, and so I was really surprised. So I started asking questions. I went, why do you want to buy my pieces? This is very good. They're not going in the garbage. You don't want these. These are not good pieces. Like, these cookies are too salty. Yeah. And they, so they went, well, what if I gave you $10? Because at first, at first I didn't ask. I just went, oh, thank you so much. It's not for sale. It's not that good. But stick around. Use your approval. That's why you never do that in business. So I don't care if someone's asking for your shirt. You sell that shirt. So I actually think it's a really smart, intentional tactic to do right in the face things to get really rare information that other people might not have. So the information I gained out of saying no, I was like, no, but in a really nice manner, and like, you know, being, having a good customer service interaction, is they went, what if I give you $15? You know, they upped it. I went, so then I thought, I went, why are they offering me, like, what is going on here in terms of human interaction happening? And so I said, you know, like the reason, it's not that I don't want to sell it to you, it's just I don't want to sell it to you and it breaks and then you'd be upset. Like I would feel really bad about that. Like is there a reason you want to buy one from me? Here are three other artists who I think do really great work. Like here's who I would buy from and They would go. Yeah, you know, we've messaged one of those other artists already and they wanted $85 for it or like sometimes There was probably like a two-week period where people where I was gathering this Intel It's like why do you want to buy stuff for me? And One of the pieces of info I got was that other artists who had been blowing glass longer, and therefore their skill was much better, felt it was somewhat beneath their skill level, who want to make those pieces, those beginner pieces. Which makes sense, right? When you're really talented at something, you don't, like when you're, you know, Kobe Bryant or, you know, Michael Jordan, you don't want to play with you or me. Like we suck. It's not fun. I completely understand. Oh, so I was like, okay, there's a huge market gap. That means beginner pieces made really well and sold for a reasonable middle tier price. So all of a sudden I had a, I didn't even have a business before that. I just had a way I was going to be able to pay for my life as an artist, right? Like my, I had a way to struggle until at some point I was going to be good enough not to struggle. And then all of a sudden I had a real legitimate business. So I didn't even know there was a business opportunity for me. I thought for sure there was no way in hell anyone would ever buy glass for me because I have no skill. And there's tons of other artists who are so phenomenally talented. And so I just started doing it. I just started doing it. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I just started. And not only am I, I used to be terrified of the mess. And then I felt comfortable in the mess. And now I love the mess. And I look for the mess. And I'm actually doing it now. Every entrepreneur is going, mmm, right now. Like, be in the mess. Yeah. Like sometimes I get the idea and I'm like, yeah, that'd be crazy and bad things will happen. Let's do it. Oh, I'm excited. Let's do the business. It's just another concept that we apply to ourself in an attempt to keep our own selves from doing something like that's the crazy, you know, mind-ass... Are we allowed to post on this podcast? Nobody else can. Okay. The total mindfuck of like human constructed reality is that we create... We created concepts to control our own self because we're bad at it. Oh no, I just talked about this! Um, I know, I posted this today actually. We're lying to ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like AI is not a new thing. It's actually what makes us human. Whoa, actually, that's a great way to say that. No, it's true. So we created our own, I don't mean digital artificial intelligence. I mean, we created a self-concept. Like other animals might have, I would say, really, really slimmed down versions of self-concepts, but we're the only creature that we know of that has such a complex self-concept. That it is so complex that it functions in every part of our life, down to our health. Isn't that crazy how we perceive ourselves? Controls our it's not a full body you oh my goodness. I just want everyone to know I'm asking you publicly you're gonna be my new best friend, okay? now But well, I appreciate that yeah, I'm just kidding No, this is what I tell people, if you want to be someone else's best friend, that's how friendships work. You don't get to choose if you're someone else's friend. Like I have to use a saying, you get to pick whoever's best friend you want to be best friends to. You don't get to choose who chooses you as a best friend. So it's like I feel very honored to be bestowed that honor. But I know why I say that struggle in relationships I used to struggle always I'm like relationships are rarely ever even in terms of like a factor not even in marriages let's work lives and normalize that two people rarely ever feel exactly the same way about each other like what a false narrative what another lie we tell ourselves like this okay I still have one more really important question and we're getting to the end. But I do want to know, I think everyone's asking the question of, okay, so like how do you get or how did you get like 2.3 million followers on TikTok? I barely, I do not, I'm not doing the tick or the talk. But tell me, tell me how you did it. Just like in general, how did it happen? Because when you say, I mean, I did some stuff, but I didn't make it. I didn't like wave a magic wand, right? So like how it happened is I got in on the platform early when they were like green lighting people. So like, it was easier. Sorry. I mean, you didn't miss the boat, right? Like everyone's trying to be realistic, but encouraging at the same time so like this. I mean you do know you miss easy, but there's other boats you can go on They're just harder We miss the easy boat. Okay. That's the beginning of a platform So I got on the easy boat, and then I had the coolest Like I had a sign what was the pool It was just what was to be you oh? I just I just know like so I've just tried a lot of stuff in my life, so I know what people actually taste. Great, you should. And, see that, what I mean when I say that is my tastes consistently across all subject matter and topics map to what collectively as a society we agree are, like, refined tastes. Okay. So, and I'm not saying that from, like, the I'm so great standpoint. I noticed that the things I liked were the things that a group of people who had labeled themselves as like elite in some way around that subject matter had also said, yeah, we like it too. I think I am obsessed with identifying patterns. I constantly do it naturally. And so, yeah, I'll do it. It's what our brain, it's the main thing. I think it's fun. I think it's fun to identify the pattern and then you apply it to it from a business perspective. Okay. So that's all I did. What you just said is all I did. So like I was essentially throwing spaghetti at a wall on TikTok at first. I was just posting content. I picked glassblowing business. So like there wasn't a whole lot of like intention or thought. I was just like here's the content I'm already posting. I'll just post it over here. Like I was being lazy. I guess. Thank you for doing that. I didn't want to come up with like new new content. So I said okay I'll just post what I've been posting on Instagram you know over here on TikTok and then one day I woke up and like something unexpected and confusing had happened and I looked for a pattern. So here's the trick to life. Find the mess and this is why I start loving the mess. Find the mess, find the pattern in the mess. You've just won the whole game because everyone else is staying away from the mess. They won't even look at the mess, you're way ahead. If you can go walk and dive into the mess, then you have a huge advantage. So I figured out that my willingness to dive into the mess is probably my biggest advantage in life as a human being in our culture and society. Now, that would have been a valuable thing. That would have gotten me in a lot of trouble. Honestly, I think that that is the place that we stop. It's the diving into the mess. And even though you have such a unique blend of being very thoughtful, planful, and strategic, but then also being very much like, all right, showing up and diving into the mess and figuring it out and trying new things. And you are the epitome of an entrepreneur. That is, if we look up entrepreneur, we're gonna be like, oh, that's Maya, right there, I see you. So I wanna know, for the folks listening, if they wanna work with you, A, why would they reach out to you? Because you have my on Gordon Media. What exactly are you doing? How can individuals reach out? Because that is the closing question. What it's like, I don't have an answer that you're looking for. I just did it. Everyone under your spell. These are not. Yeah. So the reason someone would want to reach out and connect with me is they find me interesting. That's what I'm doing. I am looking for and having conversations with interesting people. And then I'm doing some interesting things. So if you want to be involved in all of that. You say it well, though, in your LinkedIn profile. I mean, you are constantly looking at understanding people's emotions and the customer's emotional journey. But you use that to help small businesses, organizations, with helping them appeal to their ideal market? Like what are their, you know, how are they shaping their own marketing strategy or customer strategy? That's just my opinion, though. I can't tell you what to do. No, no, you just, you said it better than I wrote it on my LinkedIn page. I think, you know, it's challenging. What you did really well was to communicate communicate what I offer is a unique approach. This is actually, this is very helpful. You're giving me like a minute live coaching right now. So why it's so hard for me to communicate and answer to that question is mostly, and this comes back to concepts, right? Our concept of business usually falls into product or service. And having developed a unique process isn't either of those things. And so I've always struggled to say I offer consulting because, yes, but that's not really like what you're paying for. What you're paying for is this other thing that I'm doing in my own head because I designed like an internal mental process where I can do it. And I could explain it if I like really tried and took a lot of in thought, but I just architect it internally so that I don't have to do that. People are just praying, they're praying, but they're paying for your brain. Like your brain has, I mean that's essentially what's happening. You place your brain into their problem question and that's what people are paying for. So... And you know, I just haven't tried communicating it boldly enough in that way yet. I think I just need to do what I've always done, which is experiment more. And so this is like, this is such an example live of what we're talking about, which is most people get stuck at whatever is a little bit past their comfort zone, which is to talk about themselves in a slightly different way. Because we're always worried when we talk about ourselves, about what other people think. And the reason we do that is perfectly logical. It's because our self-concept is the part that interacts in our social reality, which is like, it's contributing factor to our physical reality. And our actual health is much more dictated by our relationships with people than anything else. And so for me, you know, I felt comfortable saying, well, it was two steps past my comfort zone to say, yeah, I'm a consultant and I'm an expert, even though I'm not. I threw out that, I threw that out the window, even though yes, I have a master's degree, yes, I have the HR certifications, all the things. I don't care. I don't. Yeah, and so that was the first comfort line I stepped over in our problem. The one I haven't though, is just to proclaim how awesome I am boldly. Because the line I don't want to cross over and that I'm always really cognizant of is the humility confidence lie and I don't I don't want to come I've always erred on the side of caution to not come across as arrogant. People with a personality type and you are naturally disarming you have a natural yes you have a natural presence. Oh thank you. You are and you're naturally wanting to serve others. Like, you want to show up and be a positive force in whatever moment that you're in. Like, that shines through. So I don't think you also saying, hey, I have a unique background, experience, success, approach. I'm going to be able to help you in your customer journey and your year journey. Like, you're paying for my brain, but that's really what it is. And so I don't think that anyone will think, you know, you have this level of arrogance. I think they'll have confidence and they'll respect that confidence. But no, I don't think you can change this face right there. Right. So let me clarify, because this is very specifically what I mean by I dive in I look for and dive in to the mess because you just Communicated it in such a lovely way. I agree if I said it like that like well It's my experiences my background, you know these things and like really it's my brain that you're paying for You're right. I don't think anyone would ever have any type of negative way how I when you suggested it How I immediately thought was like yeah, I'm like to do it in almost as blowing the line away as I can, as close to the mess as I can, knowing that I'll probably get a little messy, but I'll learn something about people. I've made some, I've made some steps in that arena. So like, I, in conversations, to test, Interesting. Social dynamics. So, what I mean by that is I am aware enough to know that I come across as being very interesting and intelligent and well-spoken. Now, I'm also aware that, to your point, that mitigates some negative qualities that people could associate with some of my personality traits. So for example, this happens to women, especially all the time, between assertive and angry. So I'm aware that I have certain qualities and traits that mitigate away from me being labeled as negative things, which is beautiful, because it gives me an opportunity to get much closer to those negative things to see what actually is going on in people's heads when that specific part of a social interaction is happening. So I want to see up close and personal what happens when someone who you don't perceive as arrogant says something that normally without the person contacting you wouldn't be perceived as arrogant. Well, that happens with us. I think already. I mean, even if we don't have a background, but whenever prior to, for everyone listening, prior to starting the podcast, you said something, we do the prep conversation, that sort of thing. You said something like, I'm awesome. And but it was, and it was, yeah, I mean, and I was already perceiving you in a certain way. And then you said, I'm awesome and I know you have to notice the you know the micro expressions but I got a bigger smile actually made me really happy because I want you to have a level of confidence I think it's the problem you're gonna run into is whenever folks especially women do not have a security within themselves and they feel insecure or battling some other issue then that's a level of intimidation and everything else so that's probably yeah yes and I come across that sometimes um it's immediately apparent um and it's like it doesn't bother it used to bother me because I'd be like how how dare they not bask in how dare they not let my awesomeness make them happy I'm like, why would they do this? Why would they do this? I'm awesome. They're not letting my awesomeness enter their heart. There are going to be some people listening to this right now and going, what is happening? What? But in all actuality, it's... Right? No, but to your point, there's some people who would listen to this and think, literally, I'm the worst person on the planet. I've had the extremes of reactions to my personality, right? And it has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with, I mean, somewhat to do with me. Because I'm, you know, triggering either something positive or negative in that person, right? But it's then their choice to, you know, where they go with that, right? I can't even say strong personality. You have a passionate personality, a personality where you also have a lot of thoughts and you're confident in those beliefs, in those thoughts. That's not a bad thing though. I think one maybe could perceive that, but no, I think you should have your own thoughts and theories and how you apply those to the world, how you show. But people need to interact, you need to interact with other confident people so that you can truly have that exchange of awesomeness, exchange of, you know, I view it as a positive explosion in a way, negative reference. Yeah, no, no, I totally agree. You know, for me, I think it's, I've figured out how to map confidence very well to humor. I think how I map it to authority is something I just haven't dabbled enough in conversationally. So like, how do I say I'm awesome in a way that makes someone wanna give me like, the keys to their car, you know, like, or their kingdom, so to speak. Like, that's, cause that's the real power I'm trying to cultivate, is like the power of my word. That's what comes down to for myself internally, but then also externally, I wanna literally be able to say things and have them happen and I'm getting closer and closer I've been working. I want to pause right there. I'm actually gonna take this offline. So I'm so sorry to those listening I know you want to see behind the curtains. You just can't you had enough of my aunt. So, um, I Know for one hour. I don't want you to also know we do not record an hour with anyone We usually do 20 to 30 minutes. This is hours. This is an hour and it's almost a takeaway. Usually during an episode I underline and bold. There's too much. So consider me underlining and bolding the entire episode because there's so many nuggets of wisdom from entrepreneurial journey to mindset to confidence. I mean, there's a lot here. A lot to take in. But I wanna, and don't worry, your information's gonna be listed at the bottom. You're gonna have LinkedIn, definitely TikTok. I think you could use at least one more, at least one more follower. I'm losing followers right now, so I need them. Yes, please. And so, but with that, I always leave an episode with telling you that everything you want is on the other side of hard. Choose your hard.