Alex Manos is a Functional Medicine Practitioner, tutor and mentor, and in this episode we focus on circadian rhythms and health, with a big focus on gut health.
We start off talking about SIBO, dental health, methane, the Cell Danger Response, and how our bodies are “just so much smarter than we are”. Then we get to light and circadian rhythms, and how important that timing is for digestion. Alex talks about red light therapy, the influence of the shifting spectrum of natural light during each day, as well as circannual rhythms and their impact on microbiome diversity. And along the way we discuss how to use information from testing and research to meaningfully help our clients.
So another fascinating and information-packed episode you'll want to bookmark and share.
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Alex Manos headlines the first virtual IHCAN Conference on Saturday 22 April with his talk ‘The Oxygen-Dysbiosis Connection’. SAVE £5 on a ticket using coupon code PODCAST at checkout - www.ihcanconferences.co.uk/april-2022.
--
The IHCAN magazine Podcast is provided for professional education and debate and is not intended to be used by non-medically qualified individuals as a substitute for, or basis of, medical treatment.
Alex Manos is a Functional Medicine Practitioner, tutor and mentor, and in this episode we focus on circadian rhythms and health, with a big focus on gut health.
We start off talking about SIBO, dental health, methane, the Cell Danger Response, and how our bodies are “just so much smarter than we are”. Then we get to light and circadian rhythms, and how important that timing is for digestion. Alex talks about red light therapy, the influence of the shifting spectrum of natural light during each day, as well as circannual rhythms and their impact on microbiome diversity. And along the way we discuss how to use information from testing and research to meaningfully help our clients.
So another fascinating and information-packed episode you'll want to bookmark and share.
--
Alex Manos headlines the first virtual IHCAN Conference on Saturday 22 April with his talk ‘The Oxygen-Dysbiosis Connection’. SAVE £5 on a ticket using coupon code PODCAST at checkout - www.ihcanconferences.co.uk/april-2022.
--
The IHCAN magazine Podcast is provided for professional education and debate and is not intended to be used by non-medically qualified individuals as a substitute for, or basis of, medical treatment.
Speaker 1
Say hello. I'm Kirsten, Chick nutritional therapist and author, and I'd like to welcome you to series one of the ICAN Magazine podcast on today's episode. I'm talking with functional medicine practitioner Alex Manos. On the theme of circadian rhythms and. Health. Hi, Alex. Thanks for joining me on the Icam magazine podcast.
Speaker 2
Hi Kirsten and thank you for the invite.
Speaker 1
You're a functional medicine practitioner and mentor and teacher as well. Yeah, and you Co founded Health Pass, which is a functional testing company. So what brought you to this line of work in the? Right.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I, like many of us, had a a journey that I went on in regards to my own health from a very young age. I struggled with digestive issues. I had terrible eczema as a baby from a very, very young age. I remember my mum saying she used to walk in in. The mornings and I'd have. Sort of blood on my skin. From just itching all night. And and it really actually wasn't until I was eighteen, I was diagnosed with IBS and and I have memories of of my final year at school where I was kind of lying in the foetal position, just with terrible abdominal cramps, having to sleep for a couple of hours in the afternoon when everyone else, when everyone else was out playing sports. And it was. It got to a point where it was quite challenging. Ultimately, it definitely kind of took some of my life away at school. Things settle down a little bit, university. I then started a a diploma in nutritional therapy and it was in probably my second year there that I did my first SIBO test realised that I had SIBO and then that led the classic journey of kind of supporting gut health from more of a nutritional lifestyle perspective. So that's this. The short story of.
Speaker 1
It OK and that's a nice place to to start actually because I want to talk a lot about circadian rhythms. Today, but I I really wanted to start with talking about SIBO because that's that's a big area of expertise for you and and also health path focuses on gut health and gut health testing. That includes, does it still include C by testing that? Yeah. So so as an.
Speaker 2
Doesn't he?
Speaker 1
Area of expertise for you. How would you describe SIBO? What are the pros and cons of testing? What insights have you had over the years about C? Though and give us your current take on it all.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, it's a big question. I guess ultimately, I think the first thing to do is to differentiate between the different types probably. So obviously, technically, if we're talking about SIBO, we're talking about small intestine, bacterial overgrowth and we know through some of the studies that there are some specific bacteria that might overgrow the in the small intestine for example. Pepsi Yellow and E coli have been found to kind of predominate there, but there's also sort of the concept that we might get the oral microbiota that are starting to colonise in the small intestine. And so we also have that different type of SIBO. I don't think that that necessarily changes treatments significantly, but it might start to emphasise obviously dental health and it might start to emphasise stomach acidity as two big things that should be preventing those sorts of bacteria from getting into the intestine. And then obviously I think it was 2019 Doctor Pimentel's paper that differentiated SIBO from EMO, or IMO I never know the correct way to say it. But intestinal methanogen overgrowth, and that's obviously because methanogens aren't bacteria. So the bacterial overgrowth doesn't make sense, and it could be in the large intestine, not just the small intestine. So the small intestine. That didn't make sense. And then we have the hydrogen sulphide Seibo which I think is. A. A little bit of a unknown entity I would say. Ultimately I think the fact that for a few years we speculated that a flatlining, SIBO test result might suggest someone has hydrogen sulphide sibo there's a possibility there, but it definitely isn't a foolproof theory I think now. We know that someone can produce excessive amounts of hydrogen and hydrogen sulphide. It's just one example to that. And then I think, you know, there's a very different situation with SIBO compared to intestinal methanogen overgrowth and our understanding of methane and methane production seems to be significantly shifting. So we now have some research showing us that actually our own. Cells might have the capacity to produce methane, and that methane may be a signature of cellular distress. That's so could it be actually that in certain situations of poor redox, for example, our cells are producing methane as a kind of response to that and therefore there's a question that arises which is the methane we're seeing in the breath, is it coming from the small or large intestine or is it actually coming from our own? Cells we also know it can come from the oral microbiota and we also know that some of those methanogens that are normally found in the mouth, like methanobrevibacter oralis, have been found in the sinuses of people with refractory sinusitis. So there is a paper that suggests you know that methane that we're seeing in the breath might be coming from the mouth, the sinuses, the small or the large intestine. And I'd add to that, it might be coming from our own cells somewhere in the body as well, especially in a kind of mitochondrial dysfunction sort of situation. And and I. Spoke to Doctor Neil Nathan last week. About the cell danger response, and I'm now speculating that maybe in some situations when we're seeing a test result that might suggest intestinal methanogen overgrowth, could it actually be a component of the cell danger response? Because we definitely see this subset of people where they're producing huge amounts of methane in their breath tests, you know, sometimes up to 200 parts per million in each sample. And yes, often they're constant, or they're constipated as well, but. It really could be I. Think that actually this is a whole kind of adaptive response to something else that is going on within this. The Organism as a whole. So I think I think things are really gonna shift over the next maybe decade as we start to understand this a lot more. More I think in the Seibo element of things. I think all the usual things we talk about, you know the endogenous defence mechanism, so bile being antibacterial motility being really important, stomach acid being antibacterial and and then sort of the immune mechanisms on the lining of the small intestine all being really important in preventing sea. Though, but we also know that hydrogen can be a potent antioxidant, so I sometimes think I'm just being way too curious. But could it be that sometimes, even when we're seeing elevated high during the breath test, actually that's a little bit of an adaptive response sometimes to something going on, so? Yeah, it's tricky.
Speaker 1
It is tricky, isn't it? But this is what makes it so fascinating. For me. It's we we can get really geeky and we can hone in on these really, you know, we can get more and more sophisticated with our testing and with. Laboratory work that people are doing and really, really look closely at something, but it never makes any sense unless we step back and apply it to the bigger picture.
Speaker 2
Yes, such a good.
Speaker 1
Point and we have to keep doing that in order for our understanding to move on. Which it sounds like that's exactly happening with SIBO right now.
Speaker 2
I think so. Yeah. You know, if you think that. And take the cell danger response which I'm is kind of quite new. I've known about afraid is, but I've never really actually read the literature on it. Doctor Nathan was talking about how, obviously. You know a. Virus penetrates a cell and as a defence mechanism it will shut down methylation and all sorts of things. So if we're doing testing and we're seeing someone's methylating poorly. Do we want to be supporting methylation or is that because actually the body is very wise and it's doing it for a specific reason and it's the same with the microbiome or the microbiota you know has the body done something to the microbiome as an adaptive response for a deliberate reason? And if we consider that the microbiome and the metabolites it produce? Uses. There's all sorts of things, including modulating genetic expression. Then it kind of would make sense that maybe actually it is turning down boot rate production from some of the bacteria because of something going on in the body. So as you say, it's great to kind of go down all these different rabbit holes and then you actually have to take a step back and also appreciate the bodies. We're just so much smarter than we are. Like, you know, we're going to touch on circadian rhythms today and reading around that, you start to really appreciate, I think, just how intelligent it is and how actually. We we forget that we're so kind of disconnected in some ways that actually we forget that the body knows what to do if the input is appropriate.
Speaker 1
Absolutely. And it's getting people to trust their bodies again, which is, you know, really essential on all kinds of levels, isn't that? Yeah, brilliant. Oh, well, we've. We've dived in straightaway. That's fantastic. So. So let's talk about lights. Let's get in there and talk about lights. So I know this has been something that you've been interested in for a while. So specifically, the action of light on on the microbiome and how the the gut works. What? What can you tell us about that? From your research experience and so on.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I guess to take a. Step back and just think about circadian rhythms. You know, we this is something that has evolved over millennia as a way to predict important physiological processes that would be needed at certain points in the. OK, so that alone when you step back and think about that, you go OK, wow, our body is sensing its environment for cues to tell it when it's appropriate to do certain things. So that shows you just how important our environment is for kind of the finely tunes. Physiology for one of the better way of putting. And light is. Arguably the most important environmental cue that we have in regards to ensuring that we're starting physiological or biochemical processes at the right time. So, you know, we wake. Up and we're going to be exposed to food. So we know that actually certain digestive processes. Start to kind of really kick in on waking and that is influence, not really by waking up or the alarm clock or the coffee, but the light that is going through our eyes. Telling that master clock, as they call it, the SCN in the brain to then send out a message to the peripheral clocks in all of our different cells, that this is the time of day it is, and therefore this is about to probably happen. So you go and do that and you. Go and do that and and obviously food is arguably the second most important. Environmental cue for this so the digestive process is partly dependent on a healthy circadian rhythm and a healthy circadian rhythm is dependent on a healthy light environment. Now I think it was the World Health Organisation not that long ago sort of said. Crikey, we're spending 90% ish of our lives insight. And this is a real health crisis in its own rights. And I know it's not necessarily an easy thing to change, however, I think it's important that we all become aware of the significance of that malluma nation as they call it this this significant. Reduction in exposure to full spectrum sunlight throughout the day, and this bombardment of blue lights that we experienced throughout the day, but also especially in the last 2-3 hours or so before we go to bed, when we're watching Netflix or we're on the laptop or on our phone. Beds. These things are all impacting the circadian rhythm and therefore our gut health ultimately to the point that the researchers said that our circadian rhythm is foundational to maintaining an intact or healthy gut lining. So intestinal hyperpermeability or leaky gut can be. I'm going to say academically or intellectually argued as a circadian disorder.
Speaker 1
Now, that's really fascinating to me because obviously, nutritional therapists, natural paths, we've all been obsessed with the gut from day, dot and and also actually we've we've all talked about our relationship with circadian rhythms and the like for a very long time. But putting those two things together in that way. This is what I want to learn more about.
Speaker 3
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Speaker 1
So tell me a bit more about that. The gut lining and circadian rhythms please.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So and I wanted, I just wanna go back to one thing, which is the reason why I tried to word it like that, you know, this intellectual and academic thing is because I do sometimes think the kind of like you pointed to earlier, which is you can go down this and you can see the research and sort of. The academia, but when? You then go back to actually someone's life. How much of this is a circadian disorder and how much of it is just their chronic psychosocial stress from works and financial pressures and all these other things that we know are going to impact the integrity of the gut lining? So it's a piece of. The puzzle, and you know, I guess as the clinician, it's partly our role to try and understand what are. The biggest. Fishing the pond as I sometimes describe it, that could actually then be contributing in that individual, but. The fact is, you know, when you look at those lifestyle Diaries that we all ask our clients to fill in, they're often clients are going to bed at midnight or later and they are on their phones in bed before they go to bed and their phone is 6 inches from their heads. And you know that unconsciously means that when they're going through their sleep cycles, they're thinking. I wonder if I got a new like on Instagram or I wonder if that that emails have landed yet. There is that kind of attachment to it, I think as well, which has impacts, sleep and sleep as we all know, is intimately connected with our microbiome and gut health as. Well, So what we know around circadian rhythm and gut health is really that there is this oscillation that takes place. So, for example, the migratory motor complex is active in the lights and is relatively inactive in the dark. So we have this. Light dark cycle to the migratory motor complex. And I kind of speculated on my Instagram a couple of weeks ago, you know, should we be recommending prokinetics at bedtime? If that's the case, would it not make more sense to have a prokinetic first thing in the morning when we're trying to really get that migrating motor complex kicking in, which is one of the reasons we have a poo in the morning? Hopefully because the digestive system is eliminating everything that it. And have gathered and detoxified from the day before. Or so I do think. One of the exciting things will be the supplement side of things and the supplement timing and this kind of idea of Chrono nutrition or circadian medicine and these sorts of things. But it's it's far too early. Days, really. I think for any of that research. But to me it makes sense that a prokinetic maybe first thing in the morning would. Would optimise its impact on the digestive system and if we appreciate that motility. Is one of the most important elements of a microbiome, so you know when you're interpreting a microbiome or microbiota analysis. Test transit time is one of the biggest things that's going to influence what you're going to. See on that bit of paper. And and it will also impact short chain fatty acid status because obviously boot rates getting absorbed by things like the colonocytes. So the slower things are travelling through. The gut, the more. Boots rate is being absorbed potentially and therefore potentially the less boot rate you're actually gonna see in a stool test. So it's always important to appreciate transit is impacting everything. pH would be the other one, which really seems to regulate both the structure and the function of the microbiota. So migrating motor complex and motility, that's a big one, I think from a circadian perspective, that would then influence this and obvious. Really, if you don't have good migratory motor complex, this takes us back to SIBO. You know, that could increase the risk of an overgrowth occurring in the small intestine. You're certainly allowing a greater time period for bacteria to ferment that food that is kind of rolling through the intestine a little bit slower than it should be. But you're also increasing the time that pathogenic organisms can sort of attach to the epic. William. So again, transit and MC is helping to flush out these pathogens at a quicker rate. It's also preventing those slower those slower growth organisms like methanobrevibacter from starting to take up more territory in the guts. And therefore there is this bidirectional relationship between just poor motivity. And an increase in methanobrevibacter and then an increase in methanobrevibacter impacting poor motility. So again, lots of these things I think are by directly. And and then to look at this through. A slightly different. Lens there's research showing us that photobiomodulation can increase microbiome diversity in keystone species like ackermansion, but also bifidobacteria. So that is, you know, this idea that if you get like an infrared lamp and you shine it at the belly, maybe 10 inches or so away. And you do that to maybe 7-8, nine, ten minutes and maybe you do that three times a week. That can increase microbiome diversity. It seems independent of anything else which.
Speaker 1
So, sorry to interrupt, but have you done that?
Speaker 2
I have, I mean, I do. I I have a red an infrared lamp that I use three or four times a week. Normally at sunrise, especially if I can't get outside at sunrise and I will shine it at my tummy, you can use it in two different ways. I describe it to clients. You can use it more like a laser where you're targeting a specific part of the body, or you can use it more like a lamp, so to speak. Whereby you're just reducing your exposure to blue light at night, so we'll have we have a we have a lamp or a a device that has two different settings and and the lighter setting. We will use as a lamp when we eat dinner, for example, as a way to not have the the normal house lights on. So yes, so that. Those studies, the best of my memory, have been done in animals rather than humans, but I do actually think there is some human data that suggests this is definitely what you're going to see as well.
Speaker 1
In your own kind of clinical experience and your experience with yourself, what? What have you noticed?
Speaker 2
I don't think it's necessarily anything that you'll notice per say from the microbiota person. Active and I am. I'm sending off another stool sample today. The same lab that I did a year ago today and I have started red light therapy within that time period. And I know like there's so many other different variables here, but my diet hasn't really changed that much within that time, like my lifestyle is fairly consistent. So it will be interesting. You know, I can't want to be wildly speculating at what's related to just red light therapy, but it's the best. Data I'm gonna have. So yes, I mean that's where the research I think is really helpful because they're able to control for some of those other variables and be like, OK, this is what? We're looking at here. And when you think that photobiomodulation, you know you're able to literally and sort of upregulate mitochondrial function. For example, there's huge improvements in pain and fatigue you can. Start to see neuro regeneration with photobiomodulation. There's research discussing the reduced risk of neurodegenerative conditions. Partly. Because of that. So for me it's one of those things that we should just be kind of recommending every single time because it's it's an easy thing to do. I appreciate there's a financial investment at the beginning which might be a barrier sometimes, but it is one of those things that is so easy to apply to our lives, especially if we can't get outside, which most of us can't because we do indoor.
Speaker 1
Well, this is it. I mean, if we lived in the country, so you and I both live in the UK. So if if we had clear days every day where it wasn't overcast and it wasn't raining, which is rare for us. And but we went outside at Sunray at Sunrise and we bathed our bellies in the morning sun that was giving out. Those infrared light is that that kind of the similar thing that that's photo my modulation is trying to emulate.
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. It's the, I guess you know, it's the modern day hack at the end of the day. So how much can you get outside? And I love Carrie Bennett. To this. She's have been a huge inspiration and source of knowledge for me. And you know, she talks about how the frequency of light is changing almost minute by minute throughout the day. So we're getting a constant stream of slightly different information that will be telling us, OK, now it's time for this. Now it's time for this. Now it's. Time for this. So there are. Little things we can do, you know? Can you go outside? In the morning, you know more of us work from home these days, so it is a little bit more accessible than it used to be. Or if you're commuting in the car, can you just roll down the window a little bit so you're letting full spectrum? Light in because glass. Blocks. I think it's something like 50% of the the full spectrum of light. So you know my window is open now to try and let full spectrum light in so I can receive that cue and my Physiology can act accordingly. And you can do that in your home. You know, again, there are gonna be circumstances where it might not be appropriate. But generally speaking, if it is appropriate for you, just think about opening windows or stepping outside. For 60 seconds, when you've made that cup of tea and just. Continually get that little bit of input that can be helpful for all sorts of different things.
Speaker 1
And that's really because we're hearing a lot at the moment about getting that first morning light to help reset cortisol levels as well. So you you've kind of touched on the impact of stress. But on on the microbiome and on Gut house. But actually the light can impact our stress levels as well. They're all interweaving, aren't they? And impacting each. But to kind of increase that and say, OK, it's not just about getting out in the morning like to reset our cortisol and melatonin patterns. But actually, if we can keep sticking our head out of the window throughout the day, there's going to be different spectrums of light that give our bodies different clues, cues rather about different activity. That kind of. Harks back a little bit to the Chinese clock. Do you know about? The Chinese clock.
Speaker 2
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1
Mm-hmm. And you were saying as well, about the morning. And. And I was thinking of that when you were talking about that first queue to go for a poo in the morning. And it's like the that earliest time in the morning is colon time on the on the Chinese clock and then it's stomach time, which is that feed. It has to say you're nodding you still.
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's it's so.
Speaker 2
True, and it's just another example of how modern medicine is actually proving so many of these ancient things. And I think that's partly because we in you know, in the West for one of the better term we've we've disconnected from our own. Medicine, ultimately, and we've been so disconnected for a while that we're kind of having to through science, confirm what ancient cultures and sort of ancient wisdom knew all the time, which I think is just fascinating in its own way and kind of shows you that if you can start to really cultivate a healthy, a safe, a compassionate. Relationship with your body again. That you'll start to receive some of that wisdom and you won't need the science necessarily to kind of make those decisions. You know, we all know that walking on a beach barefoot feels really great, but we still need to understand the in and outs of grounding and all these things for some reason. So yeah, it's. It's interesting, but I guess the takeaway is. We need to be much more like. Knocks, you know, heads out the. Window all the time. Just Sophie.
Speaker 1
Yeah, I like that image. But yeah, you. Yeah, you take you. I totally agree with everything that you just said and it's it's the point of it all isn't it is to come back to what our bodies innately know to rediscover that wisdom. But the geeking out is fun in. In the meantime.
Speaker
Right.
Speaker 1
So I yeah. So we've talked a little bit about the gut and circadian rhythms and we've talked a little bit on stress and circadian rhythm. I mean hormones in general, right? Say, menstrual cycles. That's an no brainer, isn't it?
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think so. You know, you mentioned quarter earlier and that whole quarters of awakening response, if you're seeing that, that's kind of flattened within an adrenal sort of profile. Then again recommendations around light and morning. Lights and, you know, blocking the blue light with block blue light blocking glasses or. If it's appropriate, even if it's one night a week, doing some candlelight and maybe a board game and and trying to get back to those kind of little routines, I think it will be very helpful. But you reminded me with your comment around the hormones that we also have circannual rhythms that have been discussed a little bit in the research. And again, intuitively you. You didn't just go ohhhhhh. I mean, of course, you know, we have a different metabolism for winter and summer, which is another part of this kind of cell danger response research that I'm starting to. Touch on that. You know, many of our listeners will be more familiar. With than I. Am but there's this again. It comes back to, I guess thinking around our ancestors and saying, OK, well in the winter in the South East of England, we did not have the same exposure to food that we did in the summer in the spring and and actually we. Expects to see oscillations in cortisol output in microbiome diversity. You know, look at the Hasda tribe who've been studied over a year and they have wild fluctuations in the diversity and prevalence of bacteria within the gut based on their local food. Supply. So we should see more commands. Yeah, at the end of summer. Compared to the end of winter, for example, we should have a greater microbial diversity. Then we should have a longer. A longer light time Physiology, meaning that our cortisol's gonna be arguably higher for longer in the summer months because. We have a longer light day and I can't wait to see labs start to take on some of that circadian element into their reference ranges and things. I mean, it's obviously gonna be a while away because we don't have those reference ranges. Yet but even. Just the principle I think is really interesting.
Speaker 1
Yeah, we can all start. Applying that principle, when we're working with with people thinking, OK, well, what time of year? Is it where? Where do we live in the world? What are we expecting to see this or? Or is it perfectly feasible that actually those results that look slightly out of completely normal for what's going on? Environmentally right now.
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. I think I think it's such an interesting area. And also for me because there's such A at the public level, I think there's such anxiety around food and there's a, I think with a lot of our clients, we all find there's a degree of hyper vigilance and micromanagement. And I used that study on the hasda try. There's a real great. Example of look you can. You can loosen your reins a little bit here. Because this is how your. Ancestors lived for generations. You know, there is this oscillation and we don't need the perfect meal. Three meals a day. We should have huge. Metabolic flexibility and capacity and and actually you know. I spoke to. Doctor Tommy Woods last week, he co-authored a paper with Lucy Mayling on reframing. Nutritional microbiota studies and they were kind of citing research and making this discussion around how look, if you aren't eating adequate amounts of fibre. Appreciate that you're producing isobutyl rates, which has been shown to still stimulate the same receptors that boot rate does, and the same may be true for fats as well. So the body isn't. The body isn't going to be that fragile. We wouldn't have survived this long if it was. And again, there are parts around the world where until. Quite recently, they wouldn't have had starchy vegetables at any point in their year, but they would have had pretty resilient digestive tracts and microbiomes. So I think again, like you say, taking that step back and thinking about this from an ancestral evolutionary perspective and you, you do kind of scratch your head. A little bit. Because you've got. This research coming out saying one thing and then you think back to actually well, how does that relate to how we actually live our lives? And sometimes there seems to be quite a big mismatch, which is why your point I think is so important that we take that step back and think about the bigger picture. While still enjoying getting lost in the data.
Speaker 1
Brilliant. Yes, thank you for all of that. And and there. Yeah, I. We could go on.
Speaker
We, we.
Speaker 1
Could go on for a very long time talking about all of this. I I I couple of studies that I've seen recently that I don't know if you've noticed or have anything to say about. One was about neurodegenerative diseases and circadian rhythms. Have you come across? Anything around that where they're starting to see that there's some kind of circadian rhythm disruption with people with dementia and other neurodegenerative diseases?
Speaker 2
I have but I don't actually remember like the content of the paper. I think I actually stumbled across that one today. Kind of doing a little bit of prep for our call. And again, I guess that makes sense. I did see a paper talking about sort of the ageing process and the suprachiasmatic nucleus that SCN in the brain which people refer to as the. Master clock. It's the. It's the conductor of our circadian rhythm that is primarily just influenced by that light coming in through our eye. It's that's can age at different rates, obviously depending on our lifestyles, but that's going to then impact our circadian biology and Physiology, which then may have an impact on I guess neurodegenerative type processes as well. And then once you've got the gut brain access and there's that. Research around kind of light and the gut brain. Access as a. As a mechanism that kind of links the two here as well ultimately. But yeah, I couldn't really tell you too much around the neuro degeneration part of it. I'm not sure if you can remember. Anything on the paper?
Speaker 1
That's pretty much what you've just said actually now and and that I was thinking along the same degrees. It's like that we could go all. Obviously it's gonna be have an impact, because if you're gonna have an impact on gut health, then that's going to impact everything else. Or you could say, well, obviously this is going to have an impact because because of general senescence in the body. Or, you know, there's lots of ways that you can interpret. I suppose, but it it's nice, isn't it, that scientists are looking at all of these different applications and starting to draw Connexions?
Speaker 2
Definitely. You know an example that just comes to mind is there is a study that kind of suggests that resveratrol from at least a cardiovascular benefit perspective should be taken in the morning and had greater efficacy compared to taking it later in the day. So we're starting to get some, I guess, preliminary data around when it might be best to take things, but. Like yes, you could argue that. A lot of the time it's going to be. Earlier in the day.
Speaker 1
Are people always asking me when to take their vitamin D in? I've always just said well, instinctively during daylight hours. Would you agree with that?
Speaker
Well, listen, I used.
Speaker 2
To say, doesn't it make sense to take it? Maybe sunrise kind of thing, but there is a there is a study that shows taking it in the evening is favourable for sleep from memory. Ah. Why? I'm not sure. I can't. I don't know if the paper speculated or not. I can't remember, but yes, it it doesn't necessarily seem to matter as much, or at least. And this is it from the markers they. Were measuring and monitoring. They said that maybe vitamin D before bed actually could be favourable. So yes, it's it's maybe that's a a good example, but things aren't necessarily as simple as we might think.
Speaker
OK.
Speaker 1
We've got so much more to learn, haven't. We but that it. With all of this coming back to the wisdom that you've kept referring to. It is our most grounding point. As practitioners really isn't it?
Speaker 2
Yeah, I really think it is this idea that the body is deliberately doing what it's doing 99.9% of the time probably. And I think it's a real challenge because you are entering the territory of for one of a better way of putting it. Psychology in the sense if you're working with a client. Who has been struggling for a decade or more? You can so easily see how they're gonna fall into that mentality of something is broken. I need to. And and again that comes back to maybe that's not within our remit. Maybe we need someone that we can refer to who has some degree of understanding about this stuff, but also can coach and support them in regards to reestablishing a healthy relationship and helping them understand that no, maybe. You're in the cell. Dangerous. Monse. Or maybe something else is going on here. And actually, you just need to explore what that insult wants that your body struggled to deal with. And support the body back into essentially just a healthier, more coherent state. And there's. There's a lot of tools that. The likes of Doctor Nathan talked about that, you know, certainly the public may have never heard of, you know, things like frequency specific microcurrent and the DNRS programme by Annie Hopper or the Doctor. It's a programme for kind of UK loyal people, so to speak. You know there's lots of things to to consider there that can be really helpful in rebalancing our Physiology ultimately and and the beauty with some of those programmes. Is it's very much not saying that it's in someone's heads, but it's saying that part of it might be in your head as the way I sometimes frame it with clients because it's not a psychosomatic thing. But we do need to be working a little bit, maybe at a psychoemotional spiritual level at the same time. Working just on the physical side.
Speaker 1
Because it all has an impact on each other. Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. OK. So it's there. You've mentioned a few names already, but is there any, anyone or anything in particular right now that's really grabbing your attention?
Speaker 2
The cell danger response is and I mean it's something that I I'm rereading Dr Nathan's book Toxic, which is a must read. I think nutritional therapy. And I think the type of client I work with, in particular it just so deeply resonates, is in as a potential explanation as to what's going on here and why someone might be reacting to methylated B vitamins or why they might have this high viral load that we can't get under control or whatever it may be. So that's a big thing and I like what Doctor Nathan does in interconnecting it with kind of the polyvagal theory with the limbic system dysfunction. And suddenly you've got this really, I think truly holistic approach to supporting a client back to health. And that would be. That's one of them.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Now I'm with you on that. One thing. So what do you love most about? What you do, Alex?
Speaker
I think.
Speaker 3
It is.
Speaker 2
Two things come to mind instantly. One would. This, you know, kind of talking about the research and share. It and the second would be the opportunity to have real conversations with people. You know, I think it's so easy to go through our lives, you know.
Speaker 3
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How are you? Are you fine? How are you? Yeah.
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Good. And it's kind.
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Of all very very shallow.
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We've done the hard work choosing the best. All you have to do is turn up and soak up the learning. Our speakers are brief.
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But working with client. Purpose. You're gonna have, you know. Heartfelt, genuine, sincere conversations around the life.
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And and I. Think a lot of we don't get. That in our day-to-day. Interactions, unless we're consciously looking for communities that are also. So I actually really like kind of.
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Professor Sarpa diva from the Nicholas Gonzalez Foundation, doctor Tom O'Brien, doctor Leo Crumbine and many, many more. And our events aren't just about the speakers.
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It allows me to have meaningful consultations in the long.
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Thank you.
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Speaker 1
That was functional medicine practitioner Alex Manos chatting with Niko. I hope you enjoyed listening and have learned something new today about circadian rhythms and.
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