Are you a nutritional therapist or nutrition professional - you'll love the new IHCAN magazine Podcast.
Presented by the wonderful nutritional therapist Kirsten Chick, we bring you IHCAN content you know and love in easily digestible 45 minute episodes, perfect to listen to on a commute, a dog walk, while cooking or in-between clients 🎧.
In this episode we speak to Debbie Cotton.
Debbie is an impressive combination of naturopath and integrative psychotherapist, and so is well placed to talk with us this week about menopause and perimenopause.
She talks us through the hormones involved, inflammation, stress and useful tests to consider. The microbiome becomes a running frequent theme as we discuss physical and mental health, and Debbie describes a fibre-rich approach as well as the “plant-based paradox” that is easy to get caught up in. We discuss blood sugar, and how to reduce alcohol and sugar if you’re not a natural abstainer. Debbie is generous in providing practical tips, both nutritional and psychological, throughout.
“Give yourself the permission to reach out to other […] share your experience together and actually also share kind of what works for you and what doesn't. Because I think community is one of the most important things in going through any big transition.”
--
This episode is sponsored by Nutri Advanced.
Ease those unwanted menopause symptoms with Nutri Advanced's MegaMag PeriMeno Plus. This trusted formula of magnesium glycinate, B vitamins and herbs is used by 700+ UK healthcare professionals, find out more at nutriadvanced.co.uk.
--
25 Euro voucher for your first order at biogena.com with code “IHCAN25”
Follow BIOGENA on Instagram @biogena.uk
Are you a nutritional therapist or nutrition professional - you'll love the new IHCAN magazine Podcast.
Presented by the wonderful nutritional therapist Kirsten Chick, we bring you IHCAN content you know and love in easily digestible 45 minute episodes, perfect to listen to on a commute, a dog walk, while cooking or in-between clients 🎧.
In this episode we speak to Debbie Cotton.
Debbie is an impressive combination of naturopath and integrative psychotherapist, and so is well placed to talk with us this week about menopause and perimenopause.
She talks us through the hormones involved, inflammation, stress and useful tests to consider. The microbiome becomes a running frequent theme as we discuss physical and mental health, and Debbie describes a fibre-rich approach as well as the “plant-based paradox” that is easy to get caught up in. We discuss blood sugar, and how to reduce alcohol and sugar if you’re not a natural abstainer. Debbie is generous in providing practical tips, both nutritional and psychological, throughout.
“Give yourself the permission to reach out to other […] share your experience together and actually also share kind of what works for you and what doesn't. Because I think community is one of the most important things in going through any big transition.”
--
This episode is sponsored by Nutri Advanced.
Ease those unwanted menopause symptoms with Nutri Advanced's MegaMag PeriMeno Plus. This trusted formula of magnesium glycinate, B vitamins and herbs is used by 700+ UK healthcare professionals, find out more at nutriadvanced.co.uk.
--
25 Euro voucher for your first order at biogena.com with code “IHCAN25”
Follow BIOGENA on Instagram @biogena.uk
Kirsten Chick:
Hi, I'm Kirsten Chick nutritional therapist and author. And I'd like to welcome you to series one of the new ICAN Magazine podcast series. And I'm chatting today with Debbie Cotton and we're going to chat on the theme of menopause wisdom. So first of all. Debbie, thanks for joining me today.
Debbie Cotton:
Thank you so much for having me.
Kirsten Chick:
Very welcome. So you are an integrative psychotherapist and naturopath. Can you explain a little bit more about what that involves, the training you've had, how you've got to where you are today?
Debbie Cotton:
Sure, absolutely. So I originally trained as. A A naturopath, which was inclusive of nutritional medicine and herbal medicine in Australia. And then I came over to the UK to work and because of the types of complex cases I was getting, I decided to broaden my training in psychotherapy. So I've gone on kind of from doing a bachelor to doing advanced diplomas to do also masters in integrative psychotherapy, inclusive body psychotherapy. As well.
Kirsten Chick:
Amazing. I can really see how that can come in useful for the kind of work. That you. Do and and it also sounds really relevant for anyone going through perimenopause or who is post menopause. Who which you know it. We know it's not just about hot flushes, is it? And night sweats and feeling a bit irritable. There's so much more. Involved, say, digestive issues, joint problems and psychological brain fog as well. All of those kind of cognitive things. So what is it about this transition that can cause so many different features?
Speaker 1
I guess the way to think about it is you know, as a woman of reproductive age.
Speaker 3
We get this.
Speaker 1
Amazing drug really in our system called oestrogen.
Speaker 3
Excuse me that we make ourselves and it's incredible what oestrogen and progesterone, which is also another female hormone, can do. For us and like. Almost every cell in the body. Uses it in different ways. And then, unfortunately, this amazing drug that we've had throughout our lives that gave us, you know, lots of kind of superpowers in many ways, gets taken away from us in in kind of perimenopause in lead, which is leading up to the menopause and in menopause itself, it it kind of ceases most of its production. Now we still have small amounts. Of it, obviously. That enable things to keep ticking over. But it's a. Really, really big change, you know, it's it's puberty in. Reverse in many ways. But you know, like I said, it's something that we have adapted to that we've got used to. It's an amazing sort of. Uhm, thing that it helps us with, and then all of a sudden it's gone and this is where the symptoms can be. So different in many people because it affects so many different. Parts of our bodies. And it's going to impact on people in very. Very different ways.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So and and there's testosterone involved as well, isn't there? So what happens to our testosterone levels?
Speaker 3
Unfortunately, I would unfortunately all of our levels slightly do go down oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone in in many women and the reason for this is because your ovaries are account for a lot of your production. Of your sex hormones and this is kind of throughout the ovulation process in in which this happens. And as you see your ovaries cease to kind of listen to your pituitary gland, which is kind of sending the signals every month to kind of to look after the menstrual cycle. We stopped to make the hormones. There and we have to rely on the production from our adrenal gland. And so this is where we'll get most of our kind of productions of those sex hormones after menopause. So your you know, your adrenal glands kind of take over the job from the ovaries from then on in.
Speaker 2
So when we don't completely stop making these hormones, we're still making as much as we possibly can to keep things ticking over. And you mentioned that we have these hormones are active throughout the body. So can you give me a few examples of what oestrogen can do, what progesterone can do and what testosterone can do outside of the the reproductive cycles that we commonly associate them with?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So oestrogen is is really important for all your secondary. Next characteristics as well, so you know the the way that you're fat is laid down in your body the way that your skin feels, the shape of your breasts, the how your brain functions and the neurotransmitters that you make in your brain. Both oestrogen and progesterone and testosterone all can have an impact on these things. Testosterone is very important for your libido, as this oestrogen and progesterone as well and also a lot of these things can be important for your bone health. And bone density. Your heart health, you know the the least, unfortunately. Let's go on and. And also you know things like your kind of your microbiome and your constitution of your microbiome can also change in this time as well. So all of these things can play a role together to, like I said, to have multiple impacts on different areas of the body.
Speaker 2
And inflammation as well, that's that's an area I'm really interested in. So it seems like for a lot of people, myself included, one thing that I noticed in perimenopause was that they're kind of inflammatory kind of conditions and issues and. Niggles that I. That a part of my makeup that I thought I really had a lid on, I thought I more or less sorted those out. Now suddenly they flared up with a vengeance so things like digestive issues and joint tissues, that kind of thing. I've had to really double down with my efforts to to really put extra anti-inflammatory support in there. Is that something you've seen as?
Speaker 3
Well, oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, and oestrogen and and progesterone and especially but all of these hormones are really important for the subtlety of your joints, the. How good your kind of epithelial barrier is, which is the kind of the the barrier between you and the outside world, and what gets in, what gets out? They all can play in a role in how your immune system signals, you know, so all of these things when you start taking them away, especially if there was already a slight. Underlying niggle I think this is the biggest thing. If there was already a niggle there anyway, it really kind of takes the cap off it, basically because it's introducing kind of a little bit more complexity, a little less. Sort of dampening effects than it used to be. So yes, there is often a really, really big increase in things like maybe autoimmune diseases like thyroiditis that show up around perimenopause, often joint joint problems and and joint pain shows up around menopause as well. You know, so all of these things. Can can make for unfortunately quite a bit of inflammation and discomfort.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. And but we're not all. Gonna get all of these are. We no, hopefully. Not, and in fact, you know, I work with many women that have reported completely sailing through menopause with no issues whatsoever. Or maybe you know a few things that seem to be manageable, but then others seem to have a really much, much more challenging and debilitating. Kind of. Is there anything that you know that you've noticed that can predict how somebody is going to experience perimenopause?
Speaker 3
Unfortunately no. Like I I I think if we had that kind. Of yeah, that magic predictor. I think it would all. I don't know if that. Would actually help if we knew we were going to. Get bad symptoms though, would it? But you know, I think there is and I'd like to see some more research on it, but again it's that. Of if you did have a chronic disease beforehand, if you did have something else beforehand, the likelihood of it flaring up is a possibility. You know, for example, if you were prone to frequent urinary tract infections before menopause, we know that they get kind of more prevalent in menopause. So, you know, unfortunately, if that was your weak spot, that might become more of your weak spot. I think that's one of the things to always, you know, remember that's from a common sense approach. If you've already. Got a weak spot? It might be exploited. However, it still doesn't mean that's what's going to happen. Genes do play an impact, you know, looking at how your your, your kind of maternal line has gone through menopause might be an indicator. However, you know your mum and your grandmother would have grown up in a very, very different environment to what we're growing up in today. So jeans play part of the story, but actually the environment in which we're in. Life experiences and all of these things will play a role on how we how we menopause, how we how we go through this process.
Speaker 2
So generally then, if if anyone's listening and they're approaching perimenopause menopause themselves, or they're working with a lot of clients that do that, that are and and they're asking for support with that. And I, you know, I'm getting that increasing in that there's been so much talk about perimenopause in the media. There's the conversation is much bigger around this now, which is fantastic. So I'm getting a lot more people. Actually contacting me earlier for support. So what are the the key areas you've already mentioned that there are certain things that we can look out for if we have an individual kind of weak spot already. So we can, you know look for that and maybe put in some extra specific support. There. Are there any kind of key areas like the microbiome you've mentioned that you that always comes up? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3
I think and again I think the media has done a really good look at this as well. But you know there are lots of lifestyle and environmental and lifestyle including food. You know things that we can be doing to give ourselves the best opportunity possible to go through this transit. So, and that's where the microbiome ties in, because basically what you're eating and what you're feeding yourself is what you're also feeding your gut microbiome and then the food that, that it kind of makes for you like the kind of the metabolite it makes from the food you give it will have an impact on how your immune system works. How your how you detoxify certain hormones in your body in different ways. Your bowel movements play a really big role in you know how how well you are at kind of dealing with some of your your metabolites of hormones and things like that. So. You know, I think they're the big key factors and the other big thing off lifestyle is exercise. So really looking at, especially if you're kind of thinking about coming into perimenopause is preserving your bone density as best as possible, preserving muscle tissue as best as possible as well to try and look at the kind of. And protect against the metabolic kind of impacts that can menopause can have, which is often again, that sort of rising of kind of blood sugar abnormalities and things like that that can start to raise their head around this time as well.
Speaker 2
Yes, so. So I'd like to come back to blood sugar. I think that you're right. That's a really key issue. But sticking with the microbiome for a while, what kind of areas would you suggest or how would you suggest people put in support for them? Microbiome. Obviously we're not talking to individuals here. You're not giving a specific individual. Recommendation. But what kind of things are in your repo? While for microbiome support.
Speaker 3
So at its simplest, it's really improving the amount of plant foods that you have in your diet, because plant foods are often very, very rich in fibres which the microbiome, the bacteria which are the microbiome love to eat. So it's around how can we feed. The best. So we talk a lot about trying. To get you. Know 30 different type of plant foods in in in a week which sounds a lot. But if you account for kind of herbs and spices and lentils, legumes and all those other things as well, it can actually it can be done on a budget and it can be done well. So that would kind of be your aim is include. Increasing the amount of fibre and also colour that goes into your week, because those things will really improve your microbiome in general. If you know that you're lacking in that area, it might be looking at using fibre supplements or what we call prebiotic supplements to try and kind of, you know, you might use them in smoothies or something along those lines to try and improve overall what your kind of your your food that you're giving your microbiome to help diversify it. We're also going to look at things like. What are you putting into your guts that might not be helpful for your microbiome, so that's generally. Some of the emulsifiers and preservatives and things that are in ultra. Processed foods. So, you know, I know we can't 100% avoid ultra processed foods, but it's looking at overall you know how much of your diet can you make from scratch from Whole Foods and you know kind of try to kind of move away gently from kind of these. Emulsifiers and preservatives and things that are annoying to damage the microbiome and known to damage the gut. Looking at your alcohol intake, sadly because that can and have a have a play on and kind of your microbiome as well as other things like your liver function and things in your body. So then blood sugar regulation and so on and so forth. And we also, you know the other special things that you can do if you can and you can access them is looking at using fermented foods in your diet. So there's things like pot set yoghurts that have been where you've got the kind of active bacteria still in them. It might be drinks like kofia or kombucha. Where again, there's lots of microorganisms that you're exposing yourself to, or it could be some fermented foods like sauerkraut or Chim kimchi, or, you know, well made Pickles. These sort of things and all of these things again, you could be doing a little bit yourself as well or you can buy them and kind of in the food section too. So there are lots of things that you can be doing to kind of try and protect your microbiome as best as possible coming into menopause.
Speaker 2
Great. And that the the message is out there, I think that plant based diets, you don't have to be 100% plant diets, plant based diets are a really key way forwards for for a lot of people they can that can be a really helpful approach. But obviously there's also the plant based paradox.
Speaker 4
Yes, Sir.
Speaker 2
And now that there's so much more access to Ultra processed vegan and vegetarian foods, so making sure that we're not falling into that trap and just relying on those all of the time, I think you. Yeah, that's key, isn't it?
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And again, I think the media is doing quite a good job. You know, there's the Van, Telecan brothers and other people at the moment that are really. From a medical community, are are looking at how ultra processed foods are impacting people, and I think it's that thing of actually some. And it's it's that it's that simplest thing of can you cook it yourself? Can you make? It yourself, I know we. Don't always have the time. You know, that's the downside. But you know what can you do that little bit is always a little help.
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. And she also mentioned alcohol and that is something that's around perimenopause and menopause. Actually, some people find that suddenly they can't drink alcohol anyway. So that's an easy win, but some find that they are relying on it more and. More to cope. With the stress. Thank you. Especially increasing stress around this time because obviously it's not just perimenopause doesn't happen on its own. It happens at a time of life, when often we are juggling and a lot more different things and many people have had families later in life, they've got teenagers. Going through people. At the same time, and all sorts of things going on, so and so, alcohol tends to creep in. A lot more. Now, very recently, Canada has changed its alcohol guidelines from, I think in most places around the world it's approximately 14 units a week, which from my understanding is we've been quite arbitrary. Canada has recently said, oh, actually we're going to say 2 drinks a week. So how? How do we navigate this with our clients? Who there's this increasing awareness of alcohol, but actually they're relying on it to to cope with everyday stress.
Speaker 3
And I I think. That's the key issue is the using alcohol as self medication. So I think what's important there before you can take the alcohol out is looking at why are you self medicating? You know what? Is it that you're trying to achieve? Is it underlying anxiety that hasn't been looked at needs some support. It's something to work with. Is that underlying depression? That needs looking. Is it just? Yeah. You are overwhelmed that you need to look at putting more boundaries into your life around. What can you say no to? What can you give to other people to do you know all these sort of things? So I think sometimes instead of giving yourself a hard time about the drinking at the beginning, it's using it as an opportunity to go, OK, what is it in my life that I'm trying? You know, to cope with and how, how can I just deep dive onto that and think about other ways that I can syphon that energy off in different healthy ways? For me, and then the alcohol will normally start to drop off in itself. You know, when you actually get to the the key of the the issue the you know it's not then you have to say to yourself, you must cut down alcohol, you'll naturally find you'll reduce your reliance upon it because you'll have other tools and techniques to deal with whatever the. Psychological issue underneath might be or like it's just life issue. You know, if it is a life issue. Is it something that you need your partner to do more? Do you need your kids to do more? We need a bit more downtime in the day. All of these sort of things. It's like how can we build this into your day and then we can talk about taking our alcohol because if you do it first, you're just gonna. Collapse and go back into it, yeah.
Speaker 2
Totally agree. And do you find the same with things like sugar and alcohol as well where people are really relying on their stimulants to get through the day?
Speaker 3
Absolutely. You know, I think there's a small percentage of people psychologically that are really good at going kind of abstainers. You know, they just go as of tomorrow. I am not doing this every. Then those people are incredible and I think most of us would wish to be like that. And we're. Not, you know, the reality is.
Speaker 1
You know, most of us will go.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'm never doing sugar again. Oh, look, I've just had a bit of chocolate. How interesting. You know, is that kind of Bridget Jones kind of approach, isn't it? It's like this morning I'm doing Atkins. Oh, no, that's not. Working now I'm doing keto. You know what I mean? It's like swapping 3 diets in a day, so I think we've just gotta give ourselves the permission. That that's not how most of us work. So and and when you get to that point, psychologically, OK. OK. You know that's not gonna work for me. Just totally off. Meaning I need to look at. OK, again, coming back to the sugar, why am I using it? Is it cause? I'm really, really tired. Am I not getting enough sleep? Do I have to address my insomnia and I'm using sugar to get myself up in the morning, you know? And to keep me going through the day, is it because I'm not sitting down to have breakfast? Is it because actually do I? Need to address my blood sugar levels? As in I need to get a a little bit of testing done to see if I'm a bit insulin resistant or my thyroids gone out you know so again it's using these things as opportunities to go. Why am I doing this? You know? And we do know sugar is quite addictive, so it's a bit of a tricky. Sometimes it can be a lifestyle sort of trap. We get ourselves into. But we should never beat ourselves up for it again. It's that you know, how can I make a choice today that it's a bit kinder for myself and that's actually looking at the reason why I'm I'm reaching for the Tim Tams or whatever I might be sorry. That was in Australia very much and.
Speaker 2
Yeah, so, so on the blood sugar thing. So surely there there are ways of eating sugar, right, and enjoying something like, I don't know what a Tim. Tam is sorry.
Speaker 3
Like it's kind of like a. Penguin Biscuit, I guess.
Speaker 2
OK, so you know some kind of chocolate or biscuit or whatever it is that we're reaching for. There's gotta be a way of doing that in a way that actually keep it doesn't mess with our blood sugar too much.
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. Like, you know, I think all of these things have a place in. Our lifestyle in our. Diet and as long as we're eating kind. Of a good. Healthy, full meals and getting all the you know, we're not restricting ourselves from protein or carbohydrates or anything else that our body actually needs to repair and to do the job it needs to do. We're less likely to kind of reach out for the kind of the the sugars and that stimulating effect. And then if you do have a Penguin or a Tim Tam with a cup of tea in a kind of a mindful way generally because it's in the context of meals that are well balanced and well fed, it's not going to impact us as much. So I think that's The thing is instead of. Focusing on I'm terrible and I need to cut this out. It's like, what can I do that's just going to improve my health overall. How can I balance my day? How can I not restrict healthy foods? You know, I I think a lot of women. Have a real diet mindset and it's very, very hard to pull away from that. And you know a diet mindset will always mean we fail. It always means we fail, so it's just how how can we do this in such a way where it's a mindset of I wanna be kind and healthful, not, you know, nasty to myself, basically.
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Because then then we're just putting more stress into our bodies and and more anxiety and that kind of self judgement is. Really counterproductive and just awful to live with, isn't it? Like what you said about eat, having your cup of tea and eating your tin tan or Penguin mindfully. If we can really enjoy it and like you say, accept it as part of of what we do it into nice ourselves, then, then that's going to, you know, fit in or fit in with what we're doing as part of our overall nourishment. Easily, isn't it?
Speaker 3
Absolutely. But you know, if you kind of eat a packet of them during the day just to keep your levels up and cause you're not sitting down and eating a nice meal and you're not spending time taking care of yourself, then that's where the problems come in.
Speaker 5
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Speaker 2
So blood sugar, then what kind of things can it have an impact on if blood sugar isn't nice and balanced?
Speaker 3
Pretty much everything you know. So you know the the worst case scenario is obviously moving into type 2 diabetes, which is has a lot of complication. Means from chronic urinary tract infections to, you know, concentration problems to blood flow problems to cardiovascular disease, so on and so forth. So there can be, you know, a whole knock on effect. But before we get there, you know, blood sugar dysregulation can impact how we. Sleep, you know. It can. And impact our moods throughout the day. We can have fluctuations with mood. Now it's it's an interesting one though, because it was a bit of studies on that saying, Oh no, it doesn't. But I think if you spoke to me, most people empirically, they get hungry. You know, and that's. That that combination of hunger and angry. And we do know if you're prone to blood sugar. Regulations where you go high and you drop, you know that's where the hunger can come in and and then it's hard to choose well when you're in that spot, you know, choose well the next meal or whatever. Might be happening, so it might impact things like anxiety, your depression and so on and so forth. As well, inflammation and how your you know again back to your joints and your pains, how it can have an impact there as well. So there's lots of things that it can impact on. So really working on that can can make a big difference. It may not fix everything you know, but it will give you a nice baseline to then clear up what you really need to. Focus on.
Speaker 2
Me thanks, Debbie and also. Sorry. Excuse me. Sorry. So have you also noticed a correlation between gut dysbiosis and people having generally a harder time of it cytologically going through the menopause transition?
Speaker 3
Absolutely. There's a, you know, a quite a well known and big link now between gut dysbiosis, which which means an imbalance of the the microbes in the gut and mood conditions. So. And that's because there's a really big. Of crosstalk between your gut and your brain, and a lot of the metabolites that some of your microbes make as they're doing their day-to-day stuff gets fed back to your brain and can impact what your brain decides to do and how it receives information and what neurotransmitters it makes. And. How inflamed things are so. It can have. A really, really big big impact on your mood. So you know it, it can be a bit of a weird link to if you're if you're walking into kind of go. Look, I I'm having problems with sleep or my I've got anxiety and I've got depression or or something on those lines. And someone says, well, how's your gut doing? It can feel like that's not what I've called for, but actually it's such an important. Part of helping to re regulate the whole system, you know, it's again not gonna be the only part, but it's it's a part of the puzzle for sure.
Speaker 2
And in your work, how much do you use testing?
Speaker 3
So I I have to put in a disclaimer here. I do work for a testing company. So. So I do tend to use quite a bit. I see a lot of tests from from, you know, help, lots of other practitioners with tests as well using testing myself. So yes, I do use it because I like to know what's going on, I think and so. Do a lot. Of patients, I think they really like to see. Where their baseline is what they're starting with, and then you can make really informed decisions and even kind of track how you're going, whether that's, you know, with the microbiome, whether it's gut microbiome or if it's urinary tract infections, urinary microbiome or vaginal problems, which are quite big. I I do use a lot of vaginal testing. I think that's really, really important. Michael, I'm testing so I do feel again blood sugar sometimes. It's really important to know what your blood sugar is and what it's. Going to know how your thyroid's going because it just gives you more information to make easier choices and I know it's not always available to everybody and that you know. So I think it's always really important to kind of be judicious when you're choosing testing, because it's that thing of. It's kind of a cost benefit analysis that we're always looking at. So, but it's a conversation we're having.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And she finds that if you. Actually, I'm going to reword that question. So do you have, do you have like a top three favourite tests that you just think, OK, if I these are the ones I use more than anything else with, I could only have access to three tests, these would be the.
Speaker 1
Ones no.
Speaker 3
No, I'm not. Going to be pushed into a corner. No, I think I think every test needs to be really considered on a patient basis. And I think if we're not, then we're doing everyone a disservice. So even though I work for a microbiome company, yeah, I'd love to say that. That's one of my favourite tests and it is that testing's great, but actually. It depends on who's coming, who's sitting in front of me, what their symptoms are, you know, and what's going to be the best information we need to move forward in their sort of in their plan. So yeah, so.
Speaker 2
Sorry. So OK, that's great. That's really great. And we have access now to so many more different kinds of tests. Don't we? It's really. Flourished in recent years, so there's a.
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. Like the technology has come forward so much and you know, and it's remembering that the NHS is amazing. I love it to pieces and the lab work is. And however, they've got a cap on what they're allowed to spend on certain methodologies and certain tests and whatnot, because of course, you know, they're trying to spread money across everyone, which is fair enough. So it privately now you can get a lot more information often as well. So sometimes that's why some people are asked well. We've got this information from the NHS, which is great, but hey, let's try and fill in the gaps with some of. These other tests that we can look at as well just to get more information. And again, it depends who you're working with, but if you're working with someone more integrative, they're gonna wanna do these extra tests because. Not only is it just a test from a diagnostic point of view, which is often the NHS is going, do you have this? Condition or no? We can kind of test going ohh what could look better in this test instead of you know what can I change to improve my health? Not just you've got this disease or you don't. So I think there's different ways that you look at the information that comes out of testing. As well and that's, you know, something to consider. Why? Why is someone asking me? I've done this test, so why do I have to do this one? And actually it's. Often for slightly different purposes.
Speaker
Thank you.
Speaker 2
That's really well explained. And also you know especially going through perimenopause or postmenopausal Lily, often the question isn't do I have a disease? It's. How can I sleep better? How can I do this better? How can I get my clarity back?
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And you know if if, say if it's for someone trying to get their clarity back, it might be, shall we just cheque your thyroid to make sure that you haven't got auto antibodies there. Shall we cheque your gut microbiome just to make sure things are OK. We could do a kind of a hormonal profiling test that looks at how you detoxify your hormones and also how your adrenal glands are working. So there are. Lots of kind of ways of, you know, it's like I said, it's looking for the positive outcome out of those tests. Oh, this is what we could make better, which hopefully would look at how your. Whole system is. Improving, not necessarily diagnosing you with something.
Speaker 4
Yeah, you, you.
Speaker 3
Already know you've got brain fog you don't need. To be diagnosed.
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely brilliant. So yes, going through going through menopause, perimenopause. That the whole transition of it, it could be a time of real. Midlife crisis and anxiety, or it could be a time of midlife empowerment. So what are the kind of things that can make the difference between the two?
Speaker 3
I think support so who you have around you who you're talking to. Being brave enough to really share your experience with others I think can really change it from. A poor me scenario to a oh, this is a new change in my life. How can I celebrate this? What can I cut out of my life? What boundaries can I put in to make my life better? Where do I want to focus my energy now, knowing that I've only got you know? This amount of time left, you know, and all of these things are. Can be really anxiety provoking decisions, but they can also be really freeing ones as well. So I think a lot of that is around making sure you're talking about them, you know, and having good support networks around. And and that's often friends, you know, friends can, but you know, healthcare professionals can be really good for this as well. Or, you know, having someone to talk to about what's going on in your life at the time.
Speaker 2
Really looking it in the face is what you're saying, isn't it? Rather than just shoving it under the carpet and and worrying?
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's it's also being kind to yourself. It's like if you have got anxiety because of perimenopause, it's like, OK, don't beat yourself up for that. That's where we are right now. It's like, how can we make better decisions together? How can we again? It's like reevaluating your lifestyle and your life choices. What can change, what can't change? You know it's that using it as an opportunity to really make informed decisions about your life because there is a life change that's going to happen with or without you. So yeah, you know and it's. And so it's like, can you, like you say, can you be a part of it, can you can you use it as a a vehicle for changing your life? In other areas.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And we're talking whether or not somebody chooses to go down the HRT route as well. Yeah. So that's.
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. You know and and that's The thing is again, never beat yourself up for making your life easier. Do whatever you need to do and and equally, don't kind of shy away from doing the lifestyle changes and the exercise and everything else as well, because it's all going to help you know it's it's, it's not looking for that magic bullet cause sometimes there isn't just, you know, HRT can help a lot, but it might not help. Everything so it's. It's really the taking that 360. View I think is really important.
Speaker 2
Great. Brilliant. OK, so. Slightly different question for you now, and unless there's anything else you want to say about perimenopause post menopause before we move on.
Speaker 3
No, my, my major thing is would be to if someone is going through it to, you know, give yourself the permission to reach out to other. People that are going through it as well get together, have cups of tea and your Penguin biscuits they, you know, and and really kind of share your experience together and actually also share kind of what works for you and what doesn't and also you know cuz I I think community is one of the most important things in going through any big transition.
Speaker 2
Uh. Yeah. And. We we've been on this planet a long. Time now, haven't we? We've got a. Lot of we've got a lot of wisdom and the the people we love also have a lot of wisdom. So we're like you say, in a community where we sit around sharing, there's like many decades of wisdom in that room. Surely we can. Support ourselves through that.
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And also be, you know, be brave enough to ask. For help. Yeah, if if you're not sleeping, be brave enough to ask for help around there. Be brave enough to, you know, get someone else to take the teenage kids for a while. Whatever. It might be you. Just you know, it's OK to ask for help.
Speaker 2
It is probably the wisest thing. Of them all. Say I'm generally speaking in the nutrition and health world at the moment. Is there anyone or anything that's particularly grabbing your attention?
Speaker 3
There's generally lots of. People that grab my attention, I I think I I have various interests and there's lots of people doing amazing work. I think you know in the vaginal field, I think more your Bradfield is doing amazing work in Australia around the vaginal microbiome and and I really want to champion her. I think there's you've got Lara Briden doing great work around. And women's hormones in general, you've got Leah Hechtman doing great work around fertility. There's people like. Keira Sutherland and other people as well doing great work in this area too. So I think yes, there's loads and loads of people I would have to say Doctor Huberman is doing a very great job of bringing science to the masses at the moment. So I. Think for other podcasts that you might want to listen. Yeah, I think he's doing great work too. So, you know, I think it again, I think it's community. It's in public to our community. Lots of people are out there chipping away at it, and it's not necessarily just the ones at the top of the tree.