287: Aligning Company Values and Employee Needs, With Paul ter Wal

Do you want to discover the secret recipe to align company and employee needs and create a harmonious and profitable work environment? 

Pull up a chair because today's guest, Paul ter Wal, author and president of the Virtual Speakers Association International, is here to share his transformational journey and insights on just that. 

Whether you're a CEO of a Fortune 500 company or a small start-up, Paul's principles are key to cultivating a culture of employee happiness and company profitability. 

To connect with Paul ter Wal, visit:

Website: https://paulterwal.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulterwal/

Transcript

The Power of Value to Profit

Dr. Pelè 0:00

Hello happy people . Welcome to the Profitable Happiness Podcast . Hello everyone , this is Dr Pelè with the Profitable Happiness Podcast , and today it is my pleasure to be interviewing , all the way from the Netherlands , Paul ter Wal , who is an author of the book no More Excuses . He is the president at Virtual Speakers Association International . Paul ter Wal is the guy who says happiness makes money , and I just can't wait to learn more . How are you doing today , Paul ?

Paul ter Wal 0:37

Dr Pelè , great to be with you and I'm doing really well , especially now .

Dr. Pelè 0:43

So , paul , we were talking about your topic and just how much passion both of us obviously have for it , and you know , when you say happiness makes money , there are people who go huh . And then there are people who go , oh my gosh . That just makes no sense , and we both know it has something to do with a lack of definitions out there about what happiness really is . But if you can help us along this path , let's start with this idea of what challenges you deal with in companies . That makes it important for us to tell people happiness makes money . What's the problem ?

Paul ter Wal 1:19

Well , what I noticed over the last 40 years I'm working more than 40 years that we still address human beings in organizations as being human resources . It means that it's not that we're not friendly to them that we don't see what they need , but they're interchangeable If somebody goes off , oh , we will hire somebody new . So what I see in a lot of companies that there is no alignment between core values , those of the organization and those of the human beings that work in that organizations . What you see , then , that there is no accountability between what I want as an organization and what human beings want for themselves . If there is no alignment , there is a problem . And then sick leave goes up . Attrition is down . Quiet quitting started . One of the favorite words now in the Netherlands as well we first call it precent is now it's quiet quitting . People aren't that productive anymore . They come to work , they spend their hours with productivity and engagement , and that's what you and I mean with happiness .

Paul ter Wal 2:49

Yes not a guru happiness . It's the firm , solid engagement that people should have If they want to work in your organization , and I see that a lot of companies are suffering there . That's how can we increase engagement and , with that , profitability .

Dr. Pelè 3:11

Wow , and you know , I love the way you've made this almost . You've put some perspective on something that a lot of people forget Organizations are made of the leaders , who want results for the company , and the employees , who want the results for the company . But it has to go through what they want for themselves and , as you said , when there is an alignment between what the company needs and what the employees needs , that's when you get happiness making money . I just love the way you've positioned those two things . And you know , I would love to know , paul , how did you arrive here ? How did you become the guy who is so passionate about this topic that you've written books about it ? You're a leading voice and an authority on this . How did that ? What's your story ?

Paul ter Wal 3:56

Well , to be honest , I studied law . I started 42 years ago as a lawyer and I did it in social security . So what I did ? If somebody got ill , we gave those people money , because we have an amazing social security system in the Netherlands still now . If you get ill , the first year you will get 100% of your income and the second year 70% , and that's still 10 years of extra allowance . So we want to take care of human beings .

Paul ter Wal 4:33

But when I started working I was always at the back end and I was in conflict and illnesses and that kind of negative stuff and I want to be on the front side . What's happening there ? That it goes wrong , that people get in a conflict and that they call in sick and stay away . What's happening there ? And then I met a guy , sam Silverstein , who is from St Louis in the US , and he told me about all values and non-negotiables . And I like the term non-negotiable because if you know your non-negotiables , you can't negotiate about it . It's who you are , it's your purpose , it's what you do . The choices you make are based on your core values , your non-negotiables . And I was looking at it and I thought let's go to the website of my own company and find where our core values as a company are . Well , they were hidden somewhere in about us .

Paul ter Wal 5:48

And then who is the team ? And then you see our core values Now I have them on the front page . Come to the website . You see who are we yes , that's us . And then you can find out , because you are visiting my website , you have a purpose with looking for me and you find out happiness , make money , what is he talking about ? And you see the four core values and you think , okay , now I get it and that's what I wanted to have and to change for the world . So I help organizations to find that core values that are linking , that are aligning with those of the company , and if new people come in , they need to fit in those family core values .

Dr. Pelè 6:40

If you don't fit in .

Paul ter Wal 6:42

Don't join us , because enough companies where you can work , these are our family core values . Well , if you go to a bank , an insurance company , it's difficult to find core values because it's all about money . An organization is about human beings with the same goal , with the same reason to work there , and that's like you said make results , create stuff , make the shareholders happy , it's all fine , I don't mind , but people need to be fine as well .

Dr. Pelè 7:24

I love that . So you talk about the idea of value to profit , and now you've identified this idea of what are our core values , and let's use that as a gate , frankly , to decide who is part of our family . I think that's powerful . Could you maybe explain to us exactly what you mean by value to profit , because I think , I suspect anyway , that this is getting closer to your idea of happiness makes money . Tell us what is value to profit , your concept of it .

Paul ter Wal 7:58

Value to profit is . If I know the core values of an organization , it will set my mission and vision and strategy for the company as a total . If I live the values of the organization , if I get the mission , the vision , I know why we have this strategy and I understand the plans , I can be much more effective as a human being , as an employee . So my employee experience will increase , that our work harder , productivity goes up , sick leave goes down . We will talk about it in the seven keys of engagement .

Paul ter Wal 8:43

It's those keys that give you more profit in the big sense . I call it the ripple of impact , not a return on investment . The ripple of impact , how much ripple can you , as a solo employee , give to your company ? And how is it spreading towards my colleagues , my friends who are working with me ? And I don't see them as enemies because we are working together . We are one big family and if that ripple of impact is there , then profitability of the organization goes up . So it's the value where it starts and it leads to the profit at the end , and it can be profit for everybody , not only the shareholders , for all the stakeholders . It should be profitable .

Dr. Pelè 9:36

Wow , you know , I just wrote this down the ripple of impact that is . I apologize if you don't like flattery , but to me that's genius , because it is so important for us to change first what people believe and understand before we can change anything else . And everybody's out here talking about return on investment , as you said , and again , return on investment is for who ? For the company , whereas ripple of impact is for the employees . They drive that and I love the fact that again , you're driving these two , these two different stories , in a company and you're trying to make that a limit . You know , Paul , I would love to know , in your travels and your work , if you were to say what has been the reason why people don't just jump into this ? You know , is there like a mindset block or something ? I mean because this , I'm excited by these ideas , but not everyone seems to have heard these and internalized them , why ?

Paul ter Wal 10:38

Well , I think one of the biggest issues is the way we look at human resources .

CEO Engagement and Alignment Importance

Paul ter Wal 10:45

If you look at the Anglo section way of organizing , you have the CEO on top and above . The CEO is the shareholder . The shareholder is telling the CEO make more money and the . Ceo , supported by the CEO , the CFO , CHRO , all the C's . Tell those managers below make more profit for us .

Dr. Pelè 11:11

Yeah .

Paul ter Wal 11:12

So we're kicking down .

Dr. Pelè 11:14

Yeah .

Paul ter Wal 11:15

That of what we call more the European way , the Rhineland way , is that you are supporting the people , you're pushing them into your direction , you're standing behind them , facilitating them , supporting them . But a lot of CEOs want to be on the highest level on the building and they want to have their own elevator going up and down for them . They want their car parked next to the main entrance . Well then , you're the number one , but you're not making the money . There are those professionals who are working on that work floor , as we call it . Well , the CEO should be part of the work floor .

Dr. Pelè 12:01

Yes .

Paul ter Wal 12:02

Of course he's making different decisions . He is more responsible than a lot of stuff . That's why they can earn millions , I don't mind . But look at those employees as the real professionals , and whether it's in the podcast , whether it's in the restaurant , whether it's a cleaning lady , they are the professionals . Support them , facilitate and ask them that question how can I support you ? Most of the time , ceos are telling what to do .

Dr. Pelè 12:38

Yeah .

Paul ter Wal 12:38

Instead of asking , giving those people autonomy , how can I support you ? What do you need ? Yes , to perform better . That's a tap on the shoulder , that's being friendly , that's feedback , that's dealing with purpose . So what I like to see is that the CEO goes down , sits behind the first office , has his office there .

Paul ter Wal 13:06

That he can watch who comes in , who goes out Not on the top level in the sky , in the clouds lovely , no downstairs . That's where you're supposed to sit because you are responsible for the whole organization , so you need to feel what's going on in that organization and you know , I know , and a lot of listeners will know the CEO is far up in the sky . Wow . So you're disconnected to those professionals . You saw it in the auto industry in the US . People are disconnecting with the working floor .

Paul ter Wal 13:47

We saw the writers in Hollywood , they didn't feel listened to . They believed that they didn't belong anymore . They lost their purpose . And for me , it's about autonomy , belonging the right competencies and sharing the purpose Wow . And purpose is connected to culture , is connected to core values , to non-negotiables . So if we share the purpose of the company , which is in the mission and the vision , we support people with the right competencies . They belong to our family and we ask them the question how can I support you ? What do you need from ?

Dr. Pelè 14:35

me .

Paul ter Wal 14:37

Then that's four questions and that's more than you need to ask . That's simple and that makes it difficult .

Dr. Pelè 14:46

Yes , yeah yeah , sometimes things look easy , but they're absolutely not easy . Tell us how . A lot of people rightly so listen to almost anything with some degree of skepticism and they want to know details about how certain things can actually be solved . Do you have a process , a formula , a five-step plan , a 12-step plan or whatever , or your seven-step plan ? I like seven , that's a big number .

Paul ter Wal 15:19

Seven is a better figure .

Dr. Pelè 15:21

It's a magical number . I like that . What is your seven keys of engagement ? What is your plan for solving this problem in the details ?

Paul ter Wal 15:29

Well , what we do is start a discussion with C-suite and I prefer the whole management team to talk about core values what are your core values ? And then I ask them for the company and for themselves . And a lot of people will have some clue what the core values of the company are because in the onboarding process they heard it somewhere on the internet , but they never discuss it . A lot of people have no clue what they stand for themselves . So I asked the top suite what are your core values ? What are your rules ? What is that feeling in your stomach that you make your decisions based on ? How can I hold you accountable for your core values ? Then I need to know them .

Paul ter Wal 16:28

If you know your core values and the core values of the organization are designed , then I can see how are they aligned . And then we go to the next step . Is the mission and the vision aligned to the core values as well ? If so , the strategy is that aligned as well ? And then you go into the plans and then the next level , management , steps in and is going to the teams and say hey guys , these are our non-negotiables as company , our plans . Is there still alignment between what we do in our plans and the core values . So it's an open discussion what you can do at any team meeting , and sometimes I want to have those seven steps that people need to do , but sometimes it's just having a good conversation with a cup of coffee , and if you find out that somebody isn't aligned , don't fire them . Start a conversation .

Paul ter Wal 17:35

Don't go out for a walk side by side , not opposite , because then I look in angry eyes because you're not happy with .

Dr. Pelè 17:45

Yeah , yeah .

Paul ter Wal 17:46

Side by side . I can ask you what's motivating you , what's keeping you busy ? Why aren't you performing the way I thought you were ? So it's about having that open mind , that open view . We call it positive psychology , open questions and of course we have a model for it . We call it the job demand resources model . It's worldwide accepted . It's from three Dutch professors Bakker , schouwvelijk , de Maruti . They created it and it's well accepted because it's looking at what is giving you energy and what is taking away your energy , not only in business life but in your personal life as well .

Paul ter Wal 18:38

Because if we can make the negative side smaller or the green one , the energy give us bigger , then engagement within the organization goes up and then profitability will go up . So first the questions about core values , mission , vision , strategy . Then we switch to plans and from plans we go directly into what is giving you energy and what is taking that much energy of you . If we design that , then we can see that a lovely people will go into it , dive into it and say , hey , but if those are the core values , those are the core values , these are my core values working here . So engagement goes up and with that profitability . And there is so much research by Harvard , by Oxford , and we see all the time that profitability goes up . And if you put $1 into investing in engagement , $4 will come out .

Dr. Pelè 19:52

Wow .

Paul ter Wal 19:53

That's the outcome .

Dr. Pelè 19:54

That's big .

Paul ter Wal 19:56

That's a great stat . That's why I give it to you , because we think , oh , then we need to be polite and we need to have coffee and then need to do all those funny things that you see on Google and that . No , no , it's not about fancy offices .

Dr. Pelè 20:17

And no , it's about ping pong tables in the foyer .

Paul ter Wal 20:21

Oh , I love it that it's there , but it's only there if you are engaged and you are more engaged . So it's not on the outside , it's on your inside .

Dr. Pelè 20:34

Yes .

Paul ter Wal 20:34

You feel that alignment with your organization , you will work harder , you will be more productive . 20% that's one of the keys .

Building Relationships in Leadership

Dr. Pelè 20:46

Paul , I would be interested in your perspective on , I think , what I believe is one of the biggest challenges that leaders or even employees have to grapple with to solve the problems you've just described with your methodology or with any methodology , and it's for personal and professional life , and that is the question of relationships .

Paul ter Wal 21:13

Yeah .

Dr. Pelè 21:13

You know , I have to tell you if you've ever , or if anyone listening has ever , had a teenage child . As they begin to go through their changes and their need for autonomy and the different things they want to achieve , and you start to find that your goals as a parent are different from their goals as a teenager , you start wondering how do I build a relationship , even with someone I've lived with for the past 15 , 20 , sorry , 15 , 17 , 18 years ? How do I build a relationship ? It's so hard , even though it's right in front of you .

Paul ter Wal 21:49

Yeah , and how do you do that ?

Dr. Pelè 21:51

How do you do that ? Because that's where everything starts , isn't it ?

Paul ter Wal 21:55

Absolutely , and it starts again with asking questions . I've been there . My daughter is 37 , my son 35 . So I've been there .

Dr. Pelè 22:06

You've gone through that process , yeah .

Paul ter Wal 22:09

Grandchild , who's now 10 , so she will get into it . Yeah , we're all biased with our own solutions . Hmm and we need to let that go . Give them that autonomy .

Dr. Pelè 22:23

Yes .

Paul ter Wal 22:24

Ask them hey , you still belong to our family , even if we disagree . Yes you belong to the family . How can I support you ?

Dr. Pelè 22:34

Oh , love that .

Paul ter Wal 22:35

Densis , how can I ? Support you yes instead of telling you need to be , tell you , I've been there , I tried done that .

Dr. Pelè 22:49

And then the funny thing . The funny thing is that everything you've just described even though it's from a personal Family environment is precisely what Leaders no matter how much , how big your company is or how small have to think about these relationships . So I'm so glad you talked about that , because that's how you make money . That's how we introduce the idea that Happiness because relationships build happiness for us makes money . So I guess my question for you is how do you make the link for anybody who's still a skeptic about About the idea that happiness makes money ? How do you make the link for them so that they know it is their job To go connect with employees , help them build a culture that will deliver happiness and therefore make money ? How do you get that juice started in a company ?

Paul ter Wal 23:38

well , sometimes I use animation videos . I have one in english on youtube . Oh wow , this whole story in lesson , isn't that amazing .

Dr. Pelè 23:51

Isn't that cool yeah .

Paul ter Wal 23:53

We are talking 30 minutes . People can watch it and they see oh yeah , that's me . Uh , because if you look , whether you're a manager or a leader or just an employee , we're human beings and we love to , to belong to a group , whether that's private or it's in in work environment . Yes if that alignment is there between human beings , and that's the toughest to create but it's yes .

Paul ter Wal 24:24

This role that you can get because you only need to listen , and I think the biggest problem for managers Different than leaders Is how to listen in a real good way .

Dr. Pelè 24:41

Yeah .

Paul ter Wal 24:42

Stop telling , stop listening .

Dr. Pelè 24:46

Oh , stop telling , start listening . Ha ha , I gotta take these tips and write them down .

Paul ter Wal 24:53

Well , you know it that you will as a manager . You you get a message from the top and they say we want to increase the avatar with 5% In the next quarter . You need to have a higher productivity . We want to increase with 10% . And the next step you do as a manager is tell your employees what I need to do and you forget about work , pressure , work , stress , that private line with financial issues , health issues in the family . We forget about it and we tell them like they are machines .

Paul ter Wal 25:35

Yes well , it means back is telling we are not machines , we are just a group of human beings .

Dr. Pelè 25:42

Hmm .

Paul ter Wal 25:43

So to stop listening to Taylor and the old McKinsey and start listening to means better . Who is telling hey , I'm not a human resource , I'm a human being , treat me like a human being , treat me like you want to be treated by your boss . And if we start listening to that voice that we all have , we can do it better . We should do it better . We can help one another , making no more excuses , make more profit , make more fun .

Dr. Pelè 26:21

Yeah , I love that .

Paul ter Wal 26:24

I love it .

Dr. Pelè 26:25

I think everybody who's in a leadership or management position should have on their wall . I'm not a human resource . I am a human being , because if employees see that they are committed committed personally and professionally to building that kind of a relationship between leadership and employees , everything starts from there . So it's such an exciting topic . Paul , can you tell us what you're excited about right now ? I mean , you've written books , you've got a lot of accomplishments under your belt in these many years you've been in this field . What are you excited about , and how can people best find you online ?

Paul ter Wal 27:04

What I love is to tell this story . Yeah , to go into organizations through the computer or life . Life is much more vibrant , because then you feel the entity .

Dr. Pelè 27:17

Yeah .

Paul ter Wal 27:18

We learn to do it on Zoom and that kind of stuff .

Dr. Pelè 27:22

Yeah .

Paul ter Wal 27:23

I love to tell my story Because one of the stories I tell I walk twice . The Camino that is from somewhere in Europe to Santiago , to Compostela . That's a pilgrimage , and Camino is called the Way and there is a great movie , an American movie , called the Way . It's about that walk .

Paul ter Wal 27:45

And what people do while walking there . They find that purpose , they find their spirituality again . So if you're not religious but you walk the Camino , you walk your way , you find what's important for you and I tell that story . If I have a 45 minute keynote or a workshop , I tell that story at the start that I started in the South of France and the first day I had to cross the Pyrenees and it is 500 miles in total from where I started and I did it in 28 days . And then you start the story about purpose and finding your core values and why it is important that you have that walk instead of destination . A lot of leaders see the destination .

Paul ter Wal 28:41

They see Santiago , st Jacob , they wanna go there . No , it's about the route , the way you're walking , every step you make and we sing songs about it , every step I make . It's about the walk , because you connect with human being and you hear their stories and you're not important anymore , you're just part of the pilgrimage and that's what I like to share , because this story is a pilgrimage . We need to share your story . Profitable happiness , my story , happiness makes money . It's so connected . It's a story that we need to tell and a lot of leaders will know that we don't have enough employees in the world anymore , not in the Western world .

Paul ter Wal 29:32

So there is shortage , so we want them to be less ill , much more productive . Don't leave all that kind of stuff . That's what it's all about . So the result can be higher profitability , but it's walk the talk . Do what you need to do , listen to those people . That's their journey , that's their pilgrimage , and I love to share that story .

Dr. Pelè 29:59

You know I forgot that a podcast could give me movie recommendations too . Guess what I'm watching this weekend . The way , the way I just found it online with Martin Sheen and Emilio Estevez , his son . I can't wait . You know , you are just such a breath of fresh air . You got all these great stories and ideas . Paul , how can people find you online ? What's the best way to connect with you ?

Paul ter Wal 30:25

I always say the best way is go to LinkedIn type in my name and if you see my picture then you know that's the right one . I have behind my name CSP . That means certified speaking professional . I've been the world president of all the speakers in the world .

Virtual Organization and YouTube Keynote

Paul ter Wal 30:46

Now I'm for virtual organization , but what can find me on YouTube ? I have a full keynote that is six months old . It's taken in South Africa , in Cape Town .

Dr. Pelè 31:00

Oh , wow .

Paul ter Wal 31:01

Isn't that amazing ? Yeah , in Cape Town telling your story so people can listen the whole 30 minutes or a short one , and my website is easy PaulTowallcom .

Dr. Pelè 31:15

Okay , awesome . I will have some of those links , especially the LinkedIn and your website on the show notes and some of the other ones you mentioned . Paul , thank you so much for being an awesome , educational and fun guest on the Profitable Happiness podcast .

Paul ter Wal 31:35

Dr Tai-Le , it was great having being your guest . I loved it .

Dr. Pelè 31:40

Thank you , We'll talk soon . Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness podcast . For more episodes , visit drpalaycom . And remember get happy first and success will follow .