301: Predictive Care, Human First, With Dr. Trevor Turner, MD

What if healthcare could identify disease before symptoms appear?

And what if artificial intelligence could help physicians think better, not simply move faster?

In this episode of The Human Side of Leadership in Healthcare, Dr. Pelè sits down with Trevor Turner, MD, Co-Founder of Provida Health, to explore the future of predictive, personalized medicine.

Drawing from his experience caring for professional athletes, Special Operations personnel, and everyday patients, Trevor explains how genomics, wearables, imaging, and AI-powered clinical intelligence are transforming healthcare from a reactive system into a proactive one.

But this conversation goes far beyond technology.

Trevor shares his own journey through injury and recovery, explains why movement is foundational to long-term health, and reveals why the most important moments in medicine still require human connection, trust, and compassion.

Together, they explore:

•  Why healthcare remains largely reactive 
•  The difference between information and clinical intelligence 
•  How AI can support physician judgment without replacing it 
•  Why more data does not automatically create better outcomes 
•  The role of emotional intelligence in healthcare leadership 
•  What leaders can do today to move their organizations toward predictive care 

If you're interested in the future of healthcare, leadership, artificial intelligence, and the human experience of medicine, this conversation is for you.

Connect with Dr. Trevor Turner on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-turner-9778733/

Transcript

Welcome And The Real Challenge

Dr. Pelè 0:07

Welcome to the Human Side of Leadership Podcast. I'm Dr. Play. On this podcast, we explore how leadership is experienced in real moments, not just defined in theory. Today we're talking about what it really takes to move healthcare from reactive treatment to predictive personalized care and how leaders can integrate advanced data and AI without losing the human connection at the center of care. It is truly my pleasure to welcome Dr. Trevor Turner. Trevor is a co-founder of Pravida Health, where he is building a model that combines systems biology, multi-omics data, and what he calls clinical intelligence engine to help patients and clinicians make better decisions before problems arise. Trevor, I'm really glad you're here. How are you doing today?

Trevor Turner 1:01

Well, Dr. Palay, I'm doing great. I appreciate you having me. Uh that was about the best intro I think I've ever seen. So I don't I don't know if you do contracts, but I think we should probably have you help us uh use some marketing for our clinic.

Dr. Pelè 1:16

Oh my goodness. Well, I I have to tell you, I did a lot of research on you, and I'm so excited about what you're building, the business that you're working through, and I think its application in the real world. It's gonna be powerful. Um, you know, so I'm I'm grateful that you're here as well.

From Elite Performance To Community Care

Dr. Pelè 1:33

So let's just jump straight into who you are and where you've been. You know, you've worked with professional athletes, with special operations personnel, uh, some of the highest performing individuals in the world. When did it become clear to you that the traditional healthcare model wasn't enough?

Trevor Turner 1:50

Yeah, that's a great segue. Um, so when I started out working, I got I kind of got you know lucky or serendipitous in the beginning of my career. Um, there was a really famous guy named James Andrews who was kind of at the pinnacle of the orthopedic sports medicine world. And we had a really fun place to work because next to our clinic where we would do our surgeries and see our patients, we had a combine training facility. So people would show up, you know, they would train for the NFL combine there. Maybe if they were in a you know, a gap year or they were recovering from an injury, they would come and do their recovery there. And it was a sensational place to work because we would get to be their physicians, but then at the same time, you'd work alongside a team of nutritionists and human performance experts and you know, PTs and people that had expertise in all these different domains of healthcare. And so, you know, we started looking at that team-based approach and seeing, you know, of course, when you take a person, whether they're a pro-athlete or not, you know, if you optimize their sleep and their, you know, recovery and their movement and their nutrition and how they modulate and deal with stress and prepare with mental performance, you know, people perform at a very high level. And at that time, you know, like you mentioned, the US Special Operations personnel were, you know, they were able to come down there on sort of a grant program we had, which was really, really rewarding. Um, and the team-based ethos from that group of people is just, you know, not like any other group that I've ever had the privilege to work with. But um, at the same time, you know, in our surrounding community in Pensacola, uh, there were a lot of people that, you know, either did not have a lot of means or were on kind of what at the time were very high deductible um type of fee for service insurance plans. And so a lot of those people were either priced out, you know, for being able to access that kind of care, um, or you know, they were kind of de facto almost paying cash for their health care anyway, unless they, you know, were going to hit a $12,000 deductible. So um we had to sort of reckon with the fact that, you know, we're here and we we want to be kind of you know the best at what we do, and we were grateful for people who were flying in to get care. But at the same time, if you're not able to share those benefits with your local community, then there's sort of a mismatch there. And you know, it drove me to ask a lot of questions. I think patients teach you things, um, and you see people in clinic and you connect with them, and then you can respond sort of to that problem in different ways. And I think for me, sort of the natural response was you know, entrepreneurial drive and trying to, you know, figure out how to take things that maybe even 10 years ago we would have never had access to or never been able to financially, you know, provide for patients. Um and for a lot of different reasons, you know, now I think we're able to do that because of network network effects and wearable data and and uses of some sophisticated technology we didn't have

Injury Identity And Choosing Recovery

Trevor Turner 5:04

before.

Dr. Pelè 5:04

Yeah. No, that's really powerful. And you know, you've also shared your own experience as an athlete yourself, uh, dealing with injury and identity and things like that. How did that shape the way you think about recovery, not just physically, but just as a human experience? Yeah, I think you're giving me too much credit about the athlete thing.

Trevor Turner 5:25

Um, but I did, you know, I played football growing up and I um hurt my spine and you know, how to kind of deal with the question of do I, you know, get neurosurgical fusion as a very young man, you know, when I was 18 or a boy even, um, you know, and keep doing the thing that I loved, which at the time was really my identity. And so the idea of not continuing to do that was a threat to, you know, something that I considered part of my how I defined myself as a person. And I made some decisions about, you know, what I was going to pursue. And um, I was I was hardworking and you know, had had gone to some good schools, and so you know, had the opportunity ultimately go to medical school, which was great. And I think that was the right decision for me. You know, but I think at the time you go through sort of the paradigm of medical care, and you know, my first visit, I was not diagnosed correctly. My second visit, I was diagnosed correctly, but then I was probably also, you know, offered maybe more testing than I really needed to get the diagnosis correct. You know, I got a bone scan at a very young age, and that you know has a pretty high radiation burden. So there's kind of a question of, you know, did I need to do that? Um, did a lot of physical therapy, you know, really, really actually loved a lot of that, but it was hard to do that, you know, before and after practice and before and after school, and still try and play and still try and practice and still try and do your homework and everything else. And that, you know, is probably not very unique to me, but um, you know, was prescribed some medicines that ultimately were not very helpful for me. Um, some of which I really did not like the side effects of, like, you know, muscle relaxers in particular. I felt like I was kind of really spacey. Um, and then, you know, was not super excited, frankly, to get steroid injections either. And so I would do well for years, then I would get worse, then I would do well, and then I would get worse. And, you know, eventually I opted to do something that now we do pretty regularly in our practice, you know, kind of after looking at the data that was more of a what we call autologous. So it was like a you know procedure where basically they took something from me, and that that was, and in my case, my blood, you know, to create uh a type of graft or basically the payload of what goes inside the needle. Um, and then to put ultimately PRP back into different sites of my spine that were injured. Um, and that was you know fantastic. I mean, from a safety perspective and from an outcome perspective, I think I did that six years ago and you know, have not ever had a problem since, and you know, continue to be able to work out hard and do things I care about. So yeah, you may be like, well, you can work out, that's great. But I think movement in particular is so fundamental to our really our longevity and our ability to limit other chronic disease. So it's one thing to say, well, you know, this guy wants to do power cleans, like, who cares? Just quit doing power cleans. But I think, you know, the other the flip side of that question is how much have I been able to reduce cardiac risk and dementia risk and you know, cancer risk, and all of these other things that are directly linked to my ability to move in a healthy way and not have to stop moving many times because I got hurt and I needed to take time off.

Why Prevention Still Fails In Practice

Dr. Pelè 8:46

Yeah. Healthcare talks a lot about prevention. Uh, but most systems, as we know, are still built around reacting after something breaks. Uh how would you explain that gap? Or maybe another way to say that is where do you see that gap show up most clearly?

Trevor Turner 9:05

Yeah, so we, you know, my business partner is um she's a mid-40s African-American female whose kind of heritage and ancestry comes um from the Caribbean islands from Jamaica. And so she her mom actually was an orthopedic nurse and had uh multiple cardiac events and strokes. And so she was a caregiver for her mother for a long time. And so, you know, she had kind of talked with me about creating the concept that we put together here at Previta Health. And, you know, what we really wanted to do was figure out a way that we could identify what we call the wellness to sickness transition earlier, right? So in a normal, maybe, you know, office visit, you know, you go see your doctor, they'd take your blood pressure, probably order a lipid panel to look at your cholesterol, you know, in like a handful of other labs, maybe put you on one or two medicines, and then see you in, you know, six months to a year. Um, and we had felt that, you know, not only was that kind of maybe not, you know, attentive enough to individual variation, but I think the other thing we looked at was, well, gosh, if we look at you know, human beings, which are very complex physiological systems, right? And we try to think about what data has been published for somebody with the genetic heritage that my business partner has, for example, you know, there's really historically not a lot of data published on women, and especially like minorities who are women as well. And so the idea that we would give her maybe the exact same drug, that we would give, you know, somebody who was maybe a middle-aged European or you know, is a is a real question to ask. Like, are we doing the best for patients that we could or should? And so, you know, as we put sort of this concept together, we had to ask questions about well, how do we identify things that are forward-looking that are going to project whether or not you're gonna get disease in the future to the point that we can intervene much, much earlier, right? And if we intervene earlier, most of the time, we're a lot more successful than if we wait until somebody's really sick, you know, and trying to play catch up and treat them on the back end. So um there's a lot of different incentives, you know, in the US medical system based on insurance and pharma and you know, device companies and and government regulators, but um we put together what we put together because we were passionate about trying to account for individual variation. Um, and I think that concept's called personalized medicine. Um, and then to be able to use that to create, you know, preventative and proactive plans that would ultimately, you know, not necessarily maybe extend life, but I would say definitely improve what we call health span. So, you know, are you gonna live longer maybe, but is the quality of your life during the years that you live gonna be the best it can possibly be? Um, and that's why people come and see us and and we're grateful to take care of them.

When More Health Data Confuses

Dr. Pelè 12:14

Yeah, you know, uh one of the themes I talk about is the gap between knowledge, right, and action and results. And now that we have you know more data than ever, you mentioned, I think we were referring to the genomics and uh imaging and maybe even wearables and different things that show us what's really happening. Um, but I think you were also alluding to not only knowing but doing something about it. So why doesn't that knowing more now with all the technology we have, why doesn't that automatically lead to better decisions and better health?

Trevor Turner 12:48

Well, we need context, right? And I think um in general, I'm a huge fan of patients having more data to help them make better decisions. And I think on average, you know, if you said, should you give someone no data or should you give them as much data as possible, I would tend to err on the side of give them as much as possible. Now, the downside with that is if you're not sure how to interpret it, you can come to the wrong conclusion. Right. And and you know, we used to joke about like, well, if you you know, if you go on, you know, Medscape or something and and you start you know clicking through it, everybody comes to the conclusion at some point that they have cancer. And that's a that's a silly exaggeration. Um, but we, you know, now we see people who are taking lab work, and sometimes they're saying, I'm not good with the lab work I got from my you know classical maybe wellness appointment. And so I'm gonna go to function health or I'm gonna go to you know one of these other providers to give me more data points. But then patients get the data points and they're not sure what to do with them. So you'll see them saying, Well, I'm gonna put it into Chat GPT or I'm gonna put it into some sort of intelligence engine and try to derive insights and then make decisions about the best way for me to get care, which I think is you know can be helpful, but we can also see it sort of make mistakes. So there is a value, I think, to seeing, you know, a physician that has had a chance to take care of patients for 10 years, right, or more, or whatever, right? I mean, there is still a value, obviously, to training through the medical system and understanding how to navigate things that are false positives and false negatives. And so you don't go chasing down rabbit holes that clinically probably don't matter.

AI That Clinicians Can Trust

Dr. Pelè 14:37

Yeah.

Trevor Turner 14:37

I think the flip side of that question is now we have so much data that you have some physicians going, I mean, this is great, but like how can I how can I put all this into a clinical visit? Like, you know, just a whole genome sequence by itself is 30, you know, 3.1 billion base pairs. And we get we get that standard, you know, with the people that we see, but we also get lab work and metabolomics and proteomics, and those are different lenses into different parts of a human's biology. And we feel very confident that that gives us the ability to identify or predict disease before oftentimes it happens in a regular healthcare environment. But there is no way that I could interpret all of that data by myself. It would take me hours and hours and hours and weeks with you know just a single patient. So the advent of some of these other clinical tools, and we use a clinical intelligence partner called Bioscope AI, who they've been, you know, really made at almost like you know, they help they help bring back joy to practice medicine. Because the level to which we can speak to someone's individual concern is not only highly tailored and personalized, but now for someone like my business partner who says, okay, well, I'm Jamaican, you know, and because of that, you know, does this lifestyle change best apply to me or this medication or this supplement or this procedure? You know, we can really dial that in with an extraordinary amount of confidence. The other thing I think with us is, you know, some of these companies or large language models are under a lot of pressure to monetize their data. Right. And so they say data's HIPAA protected, and that's great. Um for us, we don't have a choice. Like my whole practice is HIPAA protected because that's the law and the regulatory environment. So I think you know, you will inevitably have people have people have concerns about data privacy. Um, and for us, we use you know an incredibly secure um, you know, portal, and we can't share data with anybody legally unless the patient says, you know, here's your permission. So um we're also really confident about how that data is trained. So it's been trained on the NIH database. So when we ask questions, you know, we're getting answered based on peer-reviewed evidence, and maybe not something from a Reddit post, and that isn't a criticized, you know, Reddit. I think that can be a good tool, but sometimes it means your interpretation of different data will be different, right?

Dr. Pelè 17:17

Yeah. You know, that's a really uh powerful way of describing what you call clinical intelligence. And I just love that because as I mentioned to you, it's uh similar to something I've arrived at, which I call results intelligence. And the difference um between uh what we have now when you're talking about turning knowledge into results at work, is that we can't see the behavior that people are doing uh after they learn something. And so first you need behavioral intelligence. Let's see it, let's have visibility into what people are doing, and then you need results intelligence, which is how do we interpret that and change behavior to actually create results from all that. So, same kind of thing, different in different world. But what I love is how you use AI to achieve clinical intelligence. I'm wondering if you can give us a brief example. Um, of for example, you also mentioned that you know patients can go do their own chat GPT stuff or whatever, right? Give me one example where you where you actually control this situation, bring clinical intelligence into the picture, and then create results from it.

The Ranger Case That Changed Everything

Trevor Turner 18:26

Sure. So um so we had a gentleman come and see us, and he formerly was an army ranger, right? And so you you think about him, and you know, whatever image comes to your mind, I mean, what image comes to your mind when I say that? Army Ranger, buff, tall, uh, let's see here, beard. Super fit, right? Yeah. Super fit. And if I was looking at whether he was sick or not, what would you predict in terms of how healthy he'd be? Uh, he is not sick. He's about to hurt me. Well, he's about to protect you, hopefully. But so um, okay, so we saw a patient like this, and this patient, um, you know, since he left the service, has been tremendously successful. He's a business owner and has scaled and done really well. So he has a lot of the means at his disposal. So he had gone to multiple of what we would, I won't say the names, but you know, if you think about the academic medical centers that lead our country, like he'd been to a couple of them, right? Kind of looking for answers for a specific problem. So, you know, we see people in the context of systems biology. So when he came to see us, one of the things that we do is something called a VO2-max test. And, you know, athletes and draft athletes know about that because it helps them prepare for how they train for and win traffons and endurance races. We use it because there's a huge amount of data from JAMA, you know, leading medical journal, that basically says if your VO2 max is in certain categories, you know, your morbidity and mortality, so your risk of dying basically from anything goes down as you climb up sort of this VO2 max ladder. So we had seen this patient. Um, he, you know, had a weirdly low VO2 max. And so immediately after that, it was like alarm bells kind of. And if you looked at the respiratory part of it, he was really not exchanging oxygen and CO2 as well as you would think, especially for someone that's historically an elite athlete and you know, who is ostensibly sleeping well, making good life decisions about what he eats and how much he works out. And so we started asking some questions. We said, you know, like, have you, you know, do you get sick? Do you get respiratory infections? How often does that happen? And it turned out he was getting infections very regularly. And he said, Well, you know, I presumed when I would deploy, I would always get bronchitis because I was breathing, you know, all these chemicals and rocket fumes and things that, you know, were just, you know, inherently bad in the environment. But he was saying it would happen to me every single time. And then once I got out, I got a respiratory infection. It was so bad, like I was getting winded, just kind of walking around. And, you know, obviously, since COVID's happened, I think a lot of people have focused on respiratory health very closely. Um and so when we did his whole genome sequence, it turned out he actually had a genetic disease. And nobody knew that, and nobody had ever looked, but it is a rare form of immune system disease that increases people's susceptibility to respiratory infection. And so, you know, we look at genetic disease and how it's transmitted, and there's different kinds of terms for how it affects people in terms of penetrance. So, how how fully maybe you express that disease. Because in light of that, looking back, it's like it's extraordinary that he, you know, was able to train and make. Through the special forces pipeline in the first place. And obviously those people are very mentally resilient, right? Which is a big part of it, I think. But nonetheless, you have to be able to produce great results. And so now he's, you know, kind of getting older, you know, certainly not an old person, but the way in which we can now plan for mitigating immune system and respiratory decline is going to tremendously, in my opinion, over the long run, you know, enable him to be much, much healthier. And he's got four kids. So, you know, for him being a healthy father and being able to play with them and you know, be athletic with them and support their endeavors is a big part, I think, of how you know he sees himself and his his role and his meaning now. But you know, that was an example where we probably just wouldn't, you know, if we didn't use that type of systems biology approach, we would have never found it.

Dr. Pelè 22:55

Yeah.

Trevor Turner 22:56

And if I didn't have, as a physician, you know, kind of a clinical pilot partner who never sleeps, is always on call, you know, reads every single journal, you know, et cetera, um, it would have been, it would have been really hard for me to deliver that kind of result.

Dr. Pelè 23:13

Yeah.

Trevor Turner 23:14

And I think it asks a real question of as we train this new generation of physicians, you know, and allied health professionals and advanced practice providers and all these other people that, you know, deliver healthcare to patients responsibly, it's gonna be how do we train them in such a way that, you know, the smartest person is not gonna be, well, I memorized all the facts. Like you need to memorize some things, but it's gonna be how do I use this tool ethically and as as strategically as possible? Um, and then probably the person, Dr. Pouay, that you know, actualizes some of the things that you teach. Because interacting with the different systems and partners across the healthcare landscape, which I think people would call leadership, you know, in a way that produces the best results as a team is going to matter more than individual ability.

One Leadership Behavior To Start Now

Dr. Pelè 24:11

So on that note, since you brought it up, for a healthcare leader listening to this podcast right now, someone running a team or a system, what is one behavior they could start reinforcing, like this week, right now, that would move their organization closer to your model of predictive care?

Trevor Turner 24:33

Gosh, that's a really good question because we um we have sort of been able to minimize some of the external pressures because we're a private business and we're not a giant, you know, not-for-profit hospital system. Um I feel like my my you know, my gut answer is probably probably emotional intelligence, which is something you know, all of us are continuously learning and honing and working on for the rest of our lives. But that seems to be what builds trust between people more than anything else. And, you know, I watched my wife have a phone call yesterday with some physicians about what looks like a research organization that may or may not, you know, continue to be able to function. And especially if you're one of the people that founded or started that research, you know, LLC or clinical entity, um, you know, the threat that that may no longer exist becomes a very emotionally charged is a scary thing. And it was interesting because I saw the doctors, you know, respond in two very different ways depending on who was talking to them. Right. And and I think my wife's ability to have an emotional connection and build trust has it enables people to embrace strategic direction very, very well. Um, and if they otherwise feel like they're not connected with others, you know, then they don't. And I have a like a mentor who taught me a lot about that, whose name is Katie with the Healthcare Experience Foundation. Um, and they, you know, do a great job in terms of showing that as you build that emotional connection and intelligence, that actually outcomes get better, like patient outcomes and hospital outcomes get better. Um, humans are very connected social creatures, but yeah, yeah.

Dr. Pelè 26:27

That's actually what we call the human side of leadership in healthcare or any kind of organization. Uh, because the technical knowledge, the clinical knowledge, the ability, the titles, none of those things matter as much as how you make people feel. And that's what I think you're you're talking

AI For Thinking Better Not Faster

Dr. Pelè 26:45

about. But I have one more question for you. I want to go back to AI because I know that your clinical intelligence model uh depends on AI support and interpretation in addition to all the other elements that you bring together. In healthcare, are we using AI to think better or just to move faster?

Trevor Turner 27:06

Well, I'm starting a class at the end of the month with MIT. I'll probably be able to answer that better once I once I talk to the real experts in it. But um I mean, I think, you know, what's interesting is I've had people say, well, you know, your doctors and your your you know, nurse practitioners and and PAs, like they're all they're all already using it anyway. Like they're asking it questions constantly to get answers. And I do think at least Claude, like I think you know, there are ways that you can get um kind of like HIPAA certified, you know, enterprise level AI. And I'm not sure, I'm not sure yet, you know, how many like hospital systems, like giant systems are actually, you know, signing up for enterprise grade, um, um, clinically protected intelligence like that. Um, definitely seen as a research tool, how valuable that can be. But um, we we vetted a lot of partners before we felt confident to proceed. And I do think because of how complex healthcare is from a regulatory standpoint, you know, the clinics that sort of have a first mover advantage, you know, the small private clinics and sort of the direct primary care and concierge type of markets, you know, they're gonna have an advantage of how to roll this out when it comes to speed, right? I think when you try to say, well, how do we roll this out across 30 different departments? Like that's a much more complex question, probably in fairness. Um, and I'm running a private practice, so I may not be qualified to answer that question yet. Um but I feel like now I think I got lost from what your original question was. Well, you know, are we using it for speed or are we using it for what was the alternative?

Dr. Pelè 28:54

So is AI and healthcare helping us to think better, or is it just helping us to move faster?

Trevor Turner 29:02

Yeah, um, hopefully both. For us, it's definitely for us, it's definitely enabled us to think um better and to draw better context from a larger amount of

Guardrails For Sacred Patient Moments

Trevor Turner 29:15

data.

Dr. Pelè 29:15

Um, you know, you know, um Trevor, it was hard to get you on this call because you were always so busy, remember? And and one of my questions for you in particular, you're even still wearing your medical uh garb, you know. One of my questions for you has to do with um the whole idea of the pressure that people feel and are real, you know, that that is real in in healthcare. What does that look like when you bring your methodologies, uh, you know, the whole Pravida knowledge, body of knowledge that you've worked on? How does that address the real, almost dangerous environment of healthcare where you got to be so focused? You don't have time to go do a podcast. I mean, you know, how do you bring those things in?

Trevor Turner 30:04

Well, like we found a gentleman who is a um a family member of another patient we saw, and and they had had a good experience and referred their family member to us, which is a great compliment. Um, and then we we we found a cancer very quickly, right? And, you know, those conversations obviously are hard. And they're the conversations that, you know, should be done, I think, with a physician and probably not just with a large language model. So it's worth, I hate to use the word guardrails, but it's kind of like how do we enable these systems to interact with the patient and the doctor, but then keep it so that when somebody is going to have a moment where their personhood is threatened or their depths of their emotional resilience is sort of required for them as a person, you know, that we we we protect those things, which are what I see as kind of the sacred interactions for why somebody goes into healthcare in the first place, right? You've got to crave that moment as hard as it is to go through it with somebody. You have to be willing almost to kind of, you know, maybe not to the full extent, but kind of suffer with them for a little bit, right? And so I think, you know, we're still having those things happen all the time. And it's just a question of are we enabling it in a way that is, you know, meaningful and responsible, um, and not taking humans all the way out of the loop. I mean, um, I think, you know, some people have said e-doctors are very hard to work with, which I've observed everywhere I've ever been. And they're like, well, if we could just get them, you know, out of the picture and deliver health care, you know, without them, God, we'd sign up for that in a heartbeat. You know, and it's like, well, that's true until until you know the stakes become really high, right? And then and then I think you want a person who's gonna, you know, walk through the fire with you. Right.

Final Reflections And Closing

Dr. Pelè 32:10

So no, I I couldn't agree more, and and obviously, you know, data is great, uh, but it doesn't change outcomes. It's the the human element that does. And I think I love your model of the interpretive approach, the the use of uh genomics and AI and all those things to give us a right picture. And then from the right picture, we can create solutions. Uh, but I just want to say, Dr. Turner, you are just uh such a brilliant mind. I really have learned from you and I appreciate talking with you. You know, it's been fun.

Trevor Turner 32:43

Well, thanks. Thanks for having me, Dr. Pillet. And um, you know, I want to learn more actually about the type of of how you build kind of that clinical behavior change from the knowledge that you gather as well.

Dr. Pelè 32:55

Yeah, awesome. We'll we'll be in touch.

Trevor Turner 32:58

Thank you.