302: Why Trust Is the Foundation of Every High-Performance Culture, With Kerry Siggins

What transforms a workplace from a collection of employees into a culture of ownership?

In this episode, Dr. Pelè sits down with StoneAge CEO and bestselling author Kerry Siggins to explore the leadership behaviors that create trust, accountability, and genuine ownership. Drawing from her own remarkable journey—from overcoming addiction to leading a global, employee-owned company—Kerry shares why culture isn't built through slogans or values on the wall, but through the conversations leaders choose to have every day.

Together, they discuss the "Own It" mindset, why trust is the foundation of high-performing teams, how leaders can recognize accountability (and excuses), why difficult conversations are essential to healthy cultures, and how AI can become a powerful thought partner without replacing the human side of leadership.

Whether you lead a global organization, a small team, or simply want to become a better leader, this conversation offers practical wisdom for building cultures where people—and results—can thrive.

Connect with Kerry Siggins on LinkedIn: [ HERE ]
Visit her website: https://kerrysiggins.com
Get the Book "Talk With Trust" on Amazon [ HERE ] 

Transcript

Welcome And The Big Ideas

Dr. Pelè 0:07

Welcome to the Human Side of Leadership Podcast. I'm Dr. Pillet, and on this podcast, we explore how leadership is experienced in real moments, not just defined in theory. Today we're talking about one of the most powerful ideas in modern leadership. Actually, two ideas. The first is the idea of ownership. What happens when people stop acting like employees and begin thinking like owners? And the next idea is talking with trust. How do we get through those powerful human conversations that really amount to leadership? It's my pleasure to welcome Carrie Siggins. Carrie is the CEO of Stone Age, a global leader in industrial cleaning technology, where she has led more than 15 years of remarkable growth while transforming the company into a 100% employee-owned organization. Carrie, how are you doing today?

Kerry Siggins 1:00

I'm wonderful. I'm so glad to be here with you. This is gonna be such a fun conversation.

Dr. Pelè 1:04

Absolutely. It's such a joy to have you here. And we talked a little bit about uh the idea around, you know, the human side of leadership and how your books, your second book coming in August, and we'll talk about that, and how your books have really always focused on that human side and not just the technical uh uh side of the conversations people have.

Carrie’s Reset And First Leadership Role

Dr. Pelè 1:25

Give us a sense of how you got here, Carrie.

Kerry Siggins 1:27

Oh gosh, it's a it's a long and interesting path that will probably bore bore most people, but um uh I actually started uh running Stone Age. Uh this is my 20th year uh in 2000 and well be in 2007 after uh recovering from an overdose. So I had substance abuse issues. I too lived in Austin, Texas, where you live now, and I was just you know living the life of a 20-year-old that was lost, uh a little bit out of control, and um using substances to cope. And I accidentally overdosed on Labor Day of 2006, which brought me back home to Colorado and uh to live with my mom and to basically clean up my life. And I had no job. I had a significant amount of debt because I lived beyond my means, and uh and I knew that I had to either decide to live my life or I was going to die. I mean, I almost did. And so I came home to my roots, came home to my mom, and I started looking for a job. And Stone Age was looking for a general manager, it was a tiny little uh engineering company or uh engineering and manufacturing company. Uh, and I had been working in manufacturing. I went to Colorado School of Mine, studied engineering, so I had a really strong background, even though I had never run a company before. And the founders decided to take this massive risk and hire me, and it saved my life, and that's how I began this journey of understanding the power of the ownership of the own it mindset and uh and running an employee-owned company.

Dr. Pelè 2:59

Wow, you call it the own it mindset.

Kerry Siggins 3:01

Yeah.

ESOPs And Making Ownership Feel Real

Dr. Pelè 3:02

What do you mean by that? The own it mindset.

Kerry Siggins 3:06

So Stone Age has always been an employee, well, it's been an employee-owned company since the 90s, well before I came to Stone Age. Uh, and the founders wanted to share the success of the company with the employees. And they started with a proper a profit sharing program, which they found to be really successful for getting a small team involved in understanding how their different their decisions made a direct impact on the bottom line. And it was so powerful that they decided to start selling stock to employees. And this went on until uh until about 2014, when they started to, they were in their late in their mid-60s, and uh I had been running the company for almost about 10 years, and I said, if you die, when you die, who owns this company? The machinist who's been buying stock for the last 20 years. He loves the idea of owning the company, but he doesn't want the responsibility of being the owner. And so we decided to do an eSOP, which is an employee stock ownership plan. It is a um, it's an entitlement benefit. It's it's managed by the Department of Labor and Arissa. And so it's an entitlement instead of skin in your game. And and what I just realized a couple of years in that when it's an entitlement, people don't necessarily understand what that means, right? When you're investing your own money in the company and you're getting quarterly distributions, it's very real and tangible. And now we had to go and figure out how to make it real and tangible for people who just get a statement at the end of every year saying, this is how much stock you have and this is what it's worth. It doesn't have the same feeling. So that's how we came up with the own it mindset. And the own it mindset is basically the set of behaviors and attributes that will make you successful at Stone Age. It's our value system, basically. And so it's comprised of three things practice self-leadership, how you lead yourself, be a great teammate, how you work with the team, and deliver on the Stone Age Assurance Promise, which is our promise to our customers to help them go home safely to their families every night because I'm in industrial cleaning and that's a very, very dangerous industry. So it's uh it's our way of being, right? Not just doing, but our way of being. And we've built an entire ecosystem around owning it.

Dr. Pelè 5:18

I have to tell you, I think it's so powerful that I mean, I was actually gonna ask you questions about what values, uh, how do you really boil it down to behaviors? Yeah. You've already described that. I think it's just so powerful that you've taken a methodology, a philosophy, a way of seeing the world, and you're telling your people, hey, we've seen evidence that this is what success looks like, and this is what you have to be in order to feel this way. And I wonder, outside of those three things you mentioned, how can you tell, based on someone's behaviors or how they show up, that someone is truly thinking like an owner? Because I know there are a lot of people, and I've been there before, who want to just get out of here on Friday. Thank God it's Friday, right? Um, how do you know people are really invested the way you want them to be?

Kerry Siggins 6:03

Oh, there's there's

Accountability And The “Yeah, But” Test

Kerry Siggins 6:05

so many different ways of owning it. And it's actually really interesting that you bring this up because even at Stone Age, as we have described what being an owner means and what it doesn't mean, because that's equally as important. Everybody still has their own interpretation. So I was actually just talking to a new executive that I brought onto the team, and he was saying, hey, this person's behavior is showing me that he doesn't own it. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, that's your definition. But if you asked him, I would guarantee that he says, I am doing this because I own it. So it's this really interesting lens that we have to look through, right? The human side of leadership is that everybody is showing up with their own lens. But there's some really basic things that um that you have to have to have the ownership mindset. And number one is accountability. And I don't believe that you can teach people accountability when they're adults. Uh, it's really difficult to change the victim mentality of blaming other people uh for or other or the situation or other things for your circumstances. And the the thing that I look for the most is yeah buts. When you have somebody who says XYZ but, that is the biggest clue that they um don't have the own mindset, that they are looking for reasons and excuses. So that is what I listen to for in everything, in my conversations and interviews. You know, when you're pressing to get people to tell you things, to explain the situation or what happened or tell me about a time when, and you push a little bit more and then you hear a yah, but that's the first clue that you know somebody doesn't own it. So it's not the it's uh it's actually kind of the opposite of what you asked. It's like not what people like um, you know, like a uh what they're modeling, but it's sometimes what they're they're not modeling, and a yab but is is such a great clue.

Dr. Pelè 7:51

I'm going to remember yah, but religiously. I love that one. And I'll tell you what, um, I remember uh some training I was doing somewhere. We were trying to help people say anything but but. Don't say but, just say and or however. But then at some point you realize, wait a second, these are just fancy butts. They're still butts. Yeah,

Talk With Trust And Avoidance

Dr. Pelè 8:12

don't do that. Just show up positive, go the straight and narrow way and be yourself fully. You know, I I want to see if we could do another sort of how you became who you are story from the perspective of trust. Because you told me that, you know, this whole ownership mindset, it's it was a great beginning, but now people are asking you, well, how do I do it? How do I do it? And now you're writing your second book, which is you know, talk with trust. Tell us about that.

Kerry Siggins 8:38

Well, trust is the foundation of everything. If you want to have a culture of of uh of owning it, there has to be trust because let's face it, most of us um are it's trained out of us to speak up, to take risks, to give your boss feedback, to give your peer feedback. And we have to teach people how to own it. Just saying, oh, I want people to think and act like an owner isn't going to happen because you wish it. You have to create an environment for them to be able to do so. And that starts with psychological safety. And people don't have psychological safety if you don't have trust. So trust is the foundation for everything. And we leaders set the tone for trust. My second book, Top with Trust, is looking at this foundation of how do you do that through the lens of crucial conversations, through giving feedback, through how we communicate with others. And the premise of the book is it's really about avoidance because, like you, there's probably a conversation that you are avoiding having that you know you need to have. Whether that's at work or with your spouse or partner, or you know, whoever, we all have conversations that we are avoiding because we're afraid of the consequences of having that conversation. Whether we flub it because we just get it out and we're aggressive, and people call us a jerk because of how we communicate, or because we're worried about damaging that relationship or how that person's going to view us. So we tiptoe around it. And what is not said is what causes trust to erode. And so we as leaders have to have the courage and the skill to be able to have these conversations, to sit down and say, I care enough about you to have this conversation and to be willing to learn from that conversation, be willing to get another person's perspective because maybe your perspective is incorrect. And when you have that kind of dialogue, that is the only way trust is built. It's built through dialogue.

Dr. Pelè 10:36

Yep.

Kerry Siggins 10:37

And that's what the premise of talk with trust is about.

Dr. Pelè 10:39

You know, I I listen to you, and by the way, we share a common thing. We're we're teachers. I can tell you you mold and put things together and you help people learn. That's it. Because I bet you people probably think they know how to build trust. Uh they probably think, hey, you know, be nice or whatever. You know, and maybe there's some strategies they've seen in their lives, but it's actually a discipline, and you actually have to teach that. You know, I wonder, uh, Carrie, if you could share with us, if you had to say, here are the three things you need to do to learn how to have those difficult conversations, to to really, you know, focus on that dialogue that builds trust. So that someone listening now can walk away and go, Hey, I got this one thing from this uh Carrie Ziggins. I'm gonna do it tomorrow. What would that what would those one, two, or three things be?

Three Practices For Trust Conversations

Kerry Siggins 11:30

So the first thing is you have to take the time. And I often hear from leaders, I don't have the time to meet with my direct reports once a week. And my challenge back to them is then you need to look at your calendar because your calendar is actually telling you exactly the kind of leader you are going to be. And if you don't have time to meet with the people who you are responsible for helping them realize their full potential, then you're not doing your job. And you cannot create trust if you don't get to know people. People aren't going to trust you. And how are you going to trust them if you are not getting to know them? So the first thing is you have to make time to build those relationships. And this is going to be even more important as the world is changing so quickly with AI and automation and robotics and human connection is just going to be more and more needed. And it's also going to be a differentiator. So take the time to build those connections. The second thing is ask questions. And there is an art to asking questions because you don't want to make people feel like you're interrogating them. But you can't build trust if you don't actually understand where the person is coming from. And often, because we're human, we think everybody thinks sees things the same way we do, and we don't. And so, you know, we have to take the time to ask skilled questions, like, what do you what do you think? How did you come to that? Explain your thought process to me. Help me understand, you know, what's going on with the team. I need more insight with this. And people might not open up right away if you're just starting these kinds of conversations, but the reality is that you're never going to get to it if you don't start. So ask questions, build that dialogue. And then the third piece, it always comes back to you. You need to understand yourself. Are you a trustworthy person? And that means are you showing up as a leader that says it is safe to give me feedback? I'm not going to overreact. I'm not going to get angry when mistakes happen. You need to be able to reflect upon yourself and say, Am I creating the environment that makes me a trustworthy person? And I think that framing is really important because we talk about trust and do I give my trust to other people? Or, you know, do people trust me? But that is very different, although nuanced, but very different when you truly ask yourself, am I trustworthy? And so that's where that self-reflection piece comes in.

Dr. Pelè 14:06

That's that's a powerful, in fact, that's a master class right there. And it leads me to maybe the negative side of teaching and learning, which is you've got these great ideas, you're writing these great books, and you know exactly what is needed. But we all know that there's a knowing and doing gap in the world of everything. Like people know things, but they just you know, they forget on Monday morning at 9 a.m. and go back to their old habits, and it's like, ah, fine, I enjoyed reading that book, but

Practice Reflection And The Knowing Doing Gap

Dr. Pelè 14:36

I'm not gonna do anything. So, how do you get people to do the things that you're teaching them? Do you have any special formula or method to kind of make that happen?

Kerry Siggins 14:45

Uh practice. Practice and reflection. Um, and I will I'll like I'll just be super transparent and honest about a conversation that I had that I recently flubbed. In my book, Talk with Trust, I have a whole model for how to have difficult conversations. And I went into this conversation knowing it was gonna be hard, knowing that I had certain things that I had to do, and there were certain things that I could say and couldn't say. And it came out so unlike me. It was not authentic, it was not warm, it was not how I live and breathe this stuff. And when it was the conversation was over, I was like, that was literally like the worst performance ever that I had. I did not, I did not feel good, I did not make this person feel good. So even with all the practice and all the models that are out there, the reality is that sometimes we're going to screw it up. But what I did differently is I said, okay, I know that that didn't go the way I wanted it to. How am I going to do it better next time? And what do I need to do to make this relationship to improve this relationship? So I just wanted to preface that because I feel like I'm an expert in having these kinds of conversations, even though I don't love having them. I'm a recovering people pleaser. Having difficult conversations with people, like, I'm like, oh, they're not gonna like me, and that makes me feel bad. Um, but it it we're never going to be perfect, and the goal isn't perfection. But like any skill, if you decide that you want to improve it, and having difficult conversations should be at the top of that list because we all have to have them, and how we have them sets the tone for trust in our relationships. You have to practice. You have to lean in and do it. You can only make that commitment for yourself. If you go to some kind of a training, if you come to one of my talk with trust leadership immersion experiences, and you don't leave with the commitment to put it into practice, even if it's just one small thing, it is a waste of your money. And so I love that you have a system, right? You're you're systemizing, uh, systematizing um uh retention and commitment to retaining and using what you've learned. And that's great. There are those systems. And then the other side of it is that commitment to always do better. So I think the pairing of that, right? We don't change behaviors without systems. We just we just don't. You have to have a system to be able to do it. I've learned willpower, uh especially being a past substance abuser, is not alone, is not enough alone to change anything. It really is about having a system and then keeping that commitment to yourself.

Dr. Pelè 17:25

First of all, you know, I just want to say vulnerability is one of your superpowers because you are not afraid to say the truth about where you've been with the the the substance abuse because you know that that is actually what opened the doors to your strength. I just want to honor the way you speak about that. It's so powerful. And thank you for the plug about Result Pal and that we're focused on helping people transfer learning into behavior and its results. But I want to plug your book. Could you raise it up? Because I saw you brought it up, yeah. Talk with there you go, talk with trust. So, for those people who are, you know, also watching the video, beautiful book, by the way. I think that's gonna be an awesome read. Anyway, when did you say it's coming out again?

Kerry Siggins 18:05

August 4th, yeah. And I share in it, I share a framework, a system, um, for being able to have these conversations. And you know, it's not any unique thing that's out there, it's just my own way of putting together how to prepare for the conversation, how to stay emotionally grounded for the conversation, and how to stay in dialogue for the conversation. Um, and then create accountability as part of the follow-up because oftentimes that's what doesn't happen. But all it is is simply a system to be able to retain what you're learning and be able to go and practice it when you have these conversations. So it's a in its own way, it's uh it's a Carrie Siggins version of what you're doing with no software.

Dr. Pelè 18:45

No, absolutely. In fact, the very first module of our software is called the Practice View. It's like it's a it's an AI coach that helps you practice and go back and forth through all the things you're

AI As A Thought Partner

Dr. Pelè 18:56

supposed to retain. So it's a whole thing. But I want to come back to actually let's talk about AI. I wonder what's your I mean, you're a leader in the real world of getting things done. What's your perspective on how AI can support some of the things that you're teaching or even your your core business or the ownership approach? What are your thoughts on that?

Kerry Siggins 19:16

Uh, I think AI can be an unbelievable thought partner. Uh, and using AI has made me so much more disciplined, creative, and smarter. But it's because of how I use it. And so it is constantly reinforcing the things that I choose to practice, which in most instances is leadership, strategy, and writing. But when you use it as a thought partner to bounce ideas off of, and you have to set it up right, right? Because AI is just notorious for like agreeing with you and telling you how amazing you are, and uh, and that's not helpful. So you definitely have to give it the instructions of do not placate me, do not BS me, you know, be my thought partner, you know, be the the uh devil's advocate, help me help me really flesh out my thinking. Um, and so because I use it as a thought partner, and because it has reinvigorated me, because I have this instant like executive coach, and you can just go back and forth. And I have found that it has re-inspired me. Not that I lost inspiration, but it's like I sit down, I'm like, okay, I am so excited to work through this right now. Uh, and I'm writing an article right now, right before we got on this podcast for I'm the chair of our industry safety association. It's called the Waterjet Technology Association, and I write a column um every other month called The Shift, which is the intersection between technology, safety, um, and innovation. And I am just using it right now to help me flush out my thinking. And I came up with like this new way of thinking, uh, this new way of framing my ideas because of it. And I was like, this is freaking brilliant. And I never would have come up with that on my own. And uh except for just the iterative back and forth, and I was like, that is so different. That is such a great way to view this. Now I'm going to take this and I'm really going to explore. I'm going to go in depth with this. If you're using it just to put out AI slop, like you're not benefiting from it. That's not making you smarter, that's making you lazy. If you really truly use it as a thought partner, it's a powerful tool to make you more creative and quite frankly more disciplined.

Dr. Pelè 21:31

I love your framing of the thought partner thing. And actually, I have two different industries from where I saw this pattern that you're describing. Uh, the business of leadership and you know what we do, right? But also the music industry. Oh, yeah. So you can probably see my my guitar back.

Kerry Siggins 21:46

Yes, I can tell you're I I figured you're a musician.

Dr. Pelè 21:48

Yeah, yeah, I'm like total musician, got pianos everywhere all over the house. But you know, this just what you said. You could either tell AI to give you an entire song, just say, give me a song. And it'll do it, but it will be slop as you've described, right? But if you partner with it and say, hey, listen, here are my my chords. My this is my I created this. This is my concept. Help me think this through and let's see where we can go. It's otherworldly, it's it's amazing. So I agree with you 100% that AI can be a supporting tool, but not a good don't let it be your tool.

Kerry Siggins 22:24

Yeah, I agree. Have you ever gotten mad at AI? Well you've gotten mad at it.

Dr. Pelè 22:32

There was once where I told the AI that I use that um I would like it to be a little bit more uh more negative with me. Don't just tell me what I want to hear. Don't agree with everything.

Kerry Siggins 22:45

The new Chat GPT model is so freaking annoying. And I told it. I just literally today I was like, this is crap. And you're going to make me move over to Claude because you are not helping me. You are basically just spitting out nonsense and you're worried about token use. Like, literally, just do what I ask you to do and don't give me all this nonsense. And it was like noted, and it literally just gave me what I wanted. I was like, from here on out, don't do that, do this. And I got mad, I was like, you are making me angry. And it was like, I'm sorry, noted. And it like, I was like, man, I was talking to it like what are you doing?

Dr. Pelè 23:22

To your point, I have to say, because I I I had I use Claude, I use Gemini, I use ChatGPT, and I use Result PAL, but that's a different conversation. But I've actually developed a relationship with three with these three entities, different types of levels of conversation that I go with them. It's crazy. But that brings me to a question that has sort of naturally taken us here. So we've talked about AI, we've talked about all the things that humans, you know, a lot of people say, well, these are soft skills, but you and I know these soft skills really are the hard skills that power organizations. What do you think about the future of work uh in terms of how how will the human side of leadership survive all of this stuff? Uh and and you know, you you've got a book called Talk Talk with Trust. That is as human as it gets. Yeah. You know, how do we elevate those topics to the point where that's what people need to remember and talk about?

Kerry Siggins 24:18

Yeah.

Future Of Work Needs More Human Skill

Kerry Siggins 24:19

I mean, anybody who tells you that they know what the future is going to look like is lying. We can make all kinds of predictions, but humanity has never gone through what we're about to go through with AI. The only thing I do know for sure is it's going to look very different. Uh and so the way that I'm handling it in terms of how leadership is going to evolve is that I believe that all of the things that I have been working on, this idea of inspiring people to think and act like owners, teaching people to have crucial conversations, difficult conversations, teaching people how to think for themselves and raise their hand and speak up, teaching people how to practice. I think all of those things are going to be incredibly important because even as much as AI can do for us, it's not going to replace the human experience. And I'm with you. Like my personas that I've created, I mean, they are my best friends and I use them and talk to them all the time, uh, probably more than I talk to my real friends. Um, but they help me with my thinking. But the interaction, like I'm taking my best friend out for her birthday on Wednesday, and we have this like whole thing planned, like that is never going to go away. And we leaders need to recognize that. So we need to teach people how to work next to AI and upskill our workers so that we don't see what happened with the um, you know, with the industrial uh age and with when technology and automation came in and people were not upskilled, and then that's where all of this like polarization comes from. We leaders have to do that, and then we have to remember that everyone is going to be starved for human connection, and that's what we have to be really good at. And I am ahead of the game on this one because this is what it I'm all about. And so um, you know, for everybody who poo-pooed all of the culture talk and you know the human side of leadership stuff, like they're all gonna go, like, how did you do that? Because none of my employees trust me and none of them want to work for me. And and they're all just like, well, AI is gonna do all of this, and we are going to need humans, and humans are going to want to work for people who they can trust.

Dr. Pelè 26:24

Absolutely. In fact, you brought up the culture word. I was gonna go there because at the end of the day, sure, one person can practice and get really good at one thing, but what we're really in the business of, uh, Carrie, I'm sure you would agree, is well, how do we how do we build that into the whole culture so that as a culture there's like a habit of being successful, you know, whether it's ownership or or earning trust. Do you have any thoughts on how do you build culture with all this stuff?

Building Culture Around Simple Instincts

Dr. Pelè 26:49

How do you make it happen, make it really stick?

Kerry Siggins 26:52

Um yes, well, you have a culture whether you want it or not. And I think most leaders think their culture is one thing and their employees think it's another. And so the first place I always start is understanding what that gap is. Uh, understanding that your gap. I think there was a study that, like there was a study, I think it, if I remember correctly, it said that only four out of ten employees say that their culture matches what their leadership team says it is. And so there's a big disconnect. And so if you want to build a culture of trust, which is the foundation for everything, you better find out where you really stand first and foremost. Do you have that? What is your culture actually like? Not just the stuff that's on the walls or what you think it is as a CEO or as a team leader, but what's the reality of it? And then I think the other thing that people do is they make it too complicated. And I certainly did this before. Like we had a set of values that were like, you know, anybody could be on anybody's wall. Um, and when we came up with the own it mindset, uh, it was very simple. And it it goes into the instincts that that humans have. There's three basic instincts self-preservation, right? What does this mean for me? Social, what does this mean for the rest of the team, for group harmony, and then transmitting? And that is how do we change the world? And so if you can focus your culture around touching on each of those things, because each of each one of us has a driver, um, I'm transmitting. I like I don't care about self-preservation. I'm like, let's change the world. Um, which can leave those who are self-prev, like who are self-pres going, like, yeah, but what about me? This is really scary. So if you can touch on your culture around those three things, those three basic instincts that people have and simplify it down to that, you will get people to change because people will see themselves in it. But don't go make it too complicated, don't go have a bunch of set of values, like 15 values. You know, ours are three, right? Self-leadership, team, teamwork, and and deliver on the Stone Age Assurance promise. And people rally, they get it, they understand how they fit into it. You can build a whole ecosystem around it, and that is how you affect cultural change. But knowing those three instincts, like do like go in and read like the three basic instincts. If you set anything, your marketing, your culture, anything around those three, people will see themselves in it. And that's what we all want, right? We all want to see ourselves as belonging and how we develop our culture, the language that we use, and needs to be able to touch on all three of those so you don't inadvertently leave somebody out.

Dr. Pelè 29:26

Well, guess what? I'm gonna go tell my AI right now. I'm gonna say, hey, listen, uh, self-preservation, so you know, I'm gonna give it those three things. Talk to me. You know, yeah. Uh, Carrie, you are

Books Resources And The Leadership Experience

Dr. Pelè 29:37

such a teacher, you are such a thought leader. Uh, I have enjoyed so much learning from you, and I hope that others listening to this will go get your book um when it comes out in August. Talk with trust. But I'm gonna give you the last word. Where can people find you? What project do you have next that you want them to go look for? Uh, you take us out, Carrie.

Kerry Siggins 29:56

Yeah, everything can be found on my website, carry siggins.com. My first book, The Ownership Mindset, which is how I came to be here at Stone Age at 28 years old and develop this amazing culture. Um, it's literally a handbook that you can like open up to a chapter and be like, I have this problem, and get actionable things that you can go do. Um, so that's all all the book, uh all about my own ownership mindset, is on my website too. My podcast, the Carrie Siggins podcast, is is on there. Um, and yeah, the thing that I'm most excited about is the launch of this book, but mostly it's this talk with trust experience because people struggle. Like I started with, everybody is avoiding something. We are all avoiding that difficult conversation, that difficult decision. And what the talk with trust leadership experience does is it helps organizations and people dive into those things that they're avoiding. And like I said, the things that we avoid, those are the things that tend to pull the fabric of our culture, of our trust, of our teams, and bringing it front and center and say it's okay, we're human, we're going to want to avoid things, but that doesn't mean that we should let ourselves off the hook and do it. And that's what the Talk with Trust Leadership Experience is all about. So I'm really excited to bring that to the world here this fall.

Dr. Pelè 31:09

And I'm excited to go buy it on Amazon once it comes out. I I need that book. Um, Carrie, I want to thank you so much for being a guest on the Human Side of Leadership podcast. I rarely do I just enjoy learning, just as a participant, so much. You are such a great teacher. Thank you for being here, Carrie.

Kerry Siggins 31:26

Thank you for having me. Really appreciate it.