303: Execution Visibility: Why AI Doesn't Replace Jobs, It Replaces Tasks, with Kason Morris

Artificial intelligence is transforming the workplace, but are organizations redesigning work before they truly understand it?

In this episode of The Human Side of Leadership, Dr. Pelè sits down with workforce transformation executive, author, and LinkedIn Top Voice Kason Morris to explore his groundbreaking concept of Execution Visibility.

Together, they discuss why AI doesn't replace jobs, but the tasks within them, why human judgment may become the most valuable capability of the AI era, and why leaders must first understand how work creates value before they can successfully redesign it.

Kason shares practical guidance for executives, HR leaders, and learning professionals on balancing automation with human development, preserving critical thinking, and building organizations where technology strengthens rather than weakens capability.

If you're leading AI transformation, workforce strategy, leadership development, or organizational change, this conversation offers a thoughtful framework for designing the future of work without losing what makes people indispensable.

Connect with Kason Morris below:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kason-morris/
Kason's book on Amazon: "Lifework Revolution" 

Transcript

Welcome And The AI Work Question

Dr. Pelè 0:08

Welcome to the Human Side of Leadership podcast. I'm Dr. Pele. On this podcast, we explore how leadership is experienced in real moments, not just defined in theory. Today we're talking about one of the biggest questions facing leaders today, and that is how do we redesign work for an AI-powered future without losing the human capability that makes organizations successful? It is truly my pleasure to welcome Kayson Morris. Kayson is a workforce transformation executive, author, speaker, LinkedIn top voice, and creator of the concept of execution visibility. And let me tell you how I found Kayson. I went to Google, I said, give me the top guys in this field that talk about leadership and all these things. And your name was like number one. I'm like, yes, this is the guy I need to talk to. His work challenges organizations to look beyond jobs and skills and instead understand how work actually creates value before they redesign it with artificial intelligence. Kissan, I'm really glad you're here. How are you doing today?

Kason Morris 1:16

I'm doing great. Um, thanks so much for for having me. Uh I think it's important that we have these kinds of conversations, and and I'm happy that there are folks like yourself out there uh creating the the platforms to you know talk about this this wicked problem and and wicked opportunity uh in in this AI era of of work and life.

Dr. Pelè 1:38

Absolutely, 100%. And in

Kayson Morris Origin Story

Dr. Pelè 1:40

fact, you know, before we dive into AI and work redesign and those things, I'd love to start with your own journey. Yeah. You know, what what I mean you've spent nearly 20 years helping organizations improve performance and all the work that you do, the publications you have. What originally fascinated you about work itself?

Kason Morris 1:59

I think it was always the the idea of seeing people do more. That's been the narrative over my nearly two decade career. Whether it's been working as an executive or rolling up my sleeves on the frontline as an individual contributor, kind of going all the way up through through Burka. I was always curious about how you allow people to grow and develop. And, you know, when I think about it, I've I've spent most of my career essentially helping organizations answer questions about talent. So just different types of questions. What skills do we need? How do we develop people? How do we move talent toward opportunity? You know, how do we prepare the workforce for what's coming next? And and that curiosity around helping people do more, you know, over time, as I've done that in various different industries, various different sectors, you know, I began to see a deeper problem, which is part of how and why you you found me. Um I think we're getting increasingly sophisticated at describing people through jobs, through skills, through profiles, through assessments, through data. Um, without really becoming as sophisticated in understanding work itself. And I'll I'll expand on this a little bit more and kind of brand home uh with why execution visibility is sort of my current narrative. Because we can see the org chart, you know, we can see headcount, we can see learning activity, but you know, you could even see outcomes sometimes. But what we could not always see is what happens in between those points. And I describe that as like what are the tasks, what are the decisions, what are the handoffs, what are the dependencies and the moments of judgment through which people actually create value. And now that we're in this AI era, like AI has is making that visibility gap really urgent and really, really important. You know, organizations are now being asked to decide what machines should do and what humans should continue doing and how roles should change. But you can't intelligently redesign work you don't adequately understand. And and that that realization is is what became this discipline and thinking around execution visibility. But the the starting point was always how do I help people do a little bit more?

Dr. Pelè 4:39

You know what I love about your execution visibility uh concept? When I first saw it, I was like, wait a second, that sounds almost like what I'm trying to do, but from a different perspective. You know, I talk about behavioral visibility after learning events and how that leads to results intelligence. And so we're like, whoa, we're on the same page here. And that's why I almost, in a sense, I'd like to call myself a student of yours because I've been reading up all your stuff, all the articles online about you, because it's really fascinating. But having said that, you know, did you have a specific experience somewhere where you realize organizations actually don't quite understand how work gets done? I'll give you an example from our last conversation. You said something about Salesforce and the COVID uh experience. I'm wondering if there's something in that story that you you could share.

Kason Morris 5:30

Yeah, um, you know, I would say this really became prevalent for me in the past few years of my executive work. Um, where for the technology company, I was asked to revamp and start to look at the the future of learning experience design uh right around

Why Organizations Can't See Work

Kason Morris 5:50

COVID because traditionally the way folks would handle work or handle relationships or even sell was in person. And now we're we're we're dispersed and we're behind the screens. And it really got me thinking um a bit more about what are the skills and capabilities of my team today, you know, and and then now that we're going into a new way of trying to teach and engage sales leaders and and others, it's like, well, what what are the capabilities and and skills that we need for the future? Um and so as I started thinking about how to reorganize and restructure and and you know bring in the next wave of of capabilities, it it really got me thinking about that that problem that's in in plain sight, you know? And and it's like when you think about the traditional systems, like you know, most organizations understand their org charts far better than they understand how work actually creates value. And so as we were changing our work, that's where it got me really curious. And and and I started looking at uh elements behind the covers, like job architecture, um, you know, job profiles, job descriptions. And then I started looking at my talent as well and like who reports to whom, um, you know, what skills are listed. You know, you could look at the traditional stuff, like like whether they they completed certain training, um, whether business targets were were hit. But in looking at that, it it didn't necessarily tell me explicitly like where the critical decisions happened, you know, who was really good at resolving exceptions, like who could think on their feet and be really creative. Um, where were that where were the handoffs either accelerating execution or or slowing it down? Um where where does that that informal and formal expertise, like where does it exist amongst our our teams that were delivering this value? Because so much that's on paper is rarely the whole story of someone's capability. Um, but but our older mindsets were very much around, you know, this is the command and control, this is the order and the hierarchy of things.

Dr. Pelè 8:10

Yeah.

Kason Morris 8:10

And it and it forced me to think a little bit differently because the bottom line was the team was performing and producing, and we knew that work happened every day, but I couldn't really grasp it. And that's what that's what led me to thinking a little bit more about the the data behind it and the structures that we use and how can we build better data and better understandings around tasks, decisions, handoffs to drive the the the next era of of experience design for for the for the organization.

Dr. Pelè 8:45

You know, you uh have actually introduced, I I believe you're the only

Execution Visibility In Plain Language

Dr. Pelè 8:50

one who's introduced this idea of execution visibility. But correct me if I'm wrong. But what exactly is execution visibility? Let's assume someone's listening right now and they they want to understand how they could, you know, in a tangible way, how they could get their minds around execution visibility. What exactly is that?

Kason Morris 9:10

I would say the the simple, simplest possible explanation for what execution visibility is, is it's really about a better understanding of how work works. That's that's the simplest way that that I could I could put it, you know, because when you think about what's gonna happen, right? You know, the companies that are gonna do things well, they're gonna see how work actually creates value, and then they're gonna see how do we build the human capability behind it. So execution visibility is really all about how is value actually created in the work that we do. And if you go to many senior leaders today, you you you won't get a very clear answer or understanding around that. So we try to deconstruct and break that down uh through through this model and through this discipline. And then that allows us to answer, you know, other questions. Like once you understand how value is created, where do we use technology to create that value? Where do the humans sit in that value creation? How do we react to it?

Dr. Pelè 10:18

You know, no, no, actually, when you said that, I I was thinking of of a question that we've talked about before, which is around uh the use of AI in almost a cart before the horse uh analogy. You know, you you talk about how you know everyone seems to be racing toward AI, we all know that, but you talk about how perhaps organizations are doing that before they understand the work itself. And and wouldn't that be dangerous if if you know you're you're putting a layer of sophistication over something you you barely understand? How exactly do you position that? I I I like the way you talked about that before.

Kason Morris 10:57

Yeah, I mean, I mean, to the point and and premise of of visibility, it's like thinking about the the work itself. Um so that's the task, the workflows, the decisions, the handoffs, and the dependencies that that create value. Uh, and then the to me, when you're able to do that, then the the the second place to making sure you you're putting the the technology in the right place is capability formation. So it's like, what are the experiences that actually allow people to develop expertise, judgment, leadership, confidence? So when you think about execution and visibility, it's sitting at the intersection of those two assets because I believe those are those are the two most important assets in work. The work itself,

AI Replaces Tasks Not Jobs

Kason Morris 11:50

and then how you're developing your experts to actually make these decisions. And then only then are you starting to bring in the technology in a more meaningful um and and you know responsible way because that's where the discipline is. It's really all about the discipline of understanding how work creates value, how it builds capability, and how it develops human judgment.

Dr. Pelè 12:16

You know, one of the one of the big uh fear uh items out in the world is whether or not AI is replacing jobs. But you've said AI doesn't replace jobs, it replaces tasks. What do you mean by that?

Kason Morris 12:30

Correct. Because going back to the point around um understanding the work, if you're deconstructing work, you know, because in in the old way of thinking, our job titles were was the measure of value, was the the sort of container. And so now what what I'm saying, and what I think the the market is saying with with the AI sort of era, is now you have to think about work and of itself and breaking it down into tasks because what isn't what is AI really good at taking on a task. And and and if you don't break down the work into task, it'll do things, but it may not be doing the right things for you. So so that's where why I think when it comes to AI, uh it's really, really important to start to think about work in the way of of tasks and decisions, because once you're able to deconstruct it in that way, then you go into the question that I mentioned earlier of like, well, based on these tasks and decisions, which ones is AI really well suited for to do quickly? And that's gonna vary from function to function, company to company. And the problem that we run into right now is is is a bit of an AI arms race where everybody's bringing in all the cool technology, all the fancy things, and they're they're looking at like consumption, like, oh, people are adopting it, people are using it, but they don't really understand what they're using it for because they really don't understand the workflows and the processes and the behavior changes that they want to drive. Most organizations right now, in my opinion, are over-indexing for efficiency.

Dr. Pelè 14:10

Interesting. Um, you know, you also raise this idea of, and you've mentioned it here today already, human judgment. Uh, but in an AI world, you

How Judgment And Expertise Form

Dr. Pelè 14:20

know, what do you see um as I mean, what which work develops human judgment? And how is AI either gonna help that or hurt that? What are your general thoughts on that?

Kason Morris 14:31

Uh it's it's such a uh an interesting um point and question and and debate because when you think about it, you know, expertise. How is expertise typically built? It's built through at bat. So you think about the analyst, the junior analyst, how do they become uh a senior analyst or how do they become an expert at what they do? They're analyzing papers, they're they're they're taking on low-risk, sort of repetitive tasks, they're getting feedback, they're going through different types of loops. And by by building the muscles over time, you do you develop context. So that's why when I say like the the ability to judge is so important, because now with with AI, you basically have uh a superpowered intern that knows the knowledge of everything, but they don't it doesn't necessarily know how to make the right decision with the output. And that's where that's where the human comes into play. So when you think about early career considerations and even just that whole expertise curve in general, you know, we're we're now starting to take away those opportunities with the emerging technologies. So I I would argue, and part of my thesis is that um organizations have responsibility now to, and even the learning functions have responsibility now to think about, okay, if we're taking these kinds of repetitive and maybe lower risk tasks away that help build expertise, what are we replacing it with to develop expertise? How do we use AI as a partner in that? And that's where I see the future going is a shifting in that responsibility of like, yes, the business wants the outcome and wants the outcome faster and cheaper. But as I think of HR performance professionals and other professionals in the workplace, we have to start to think about like, hey, how do we use these tools to now simulate those moments that allow people to develop uh that that capability because you're gonna need a human in a loop to make those decisions and you're gonna need that accountability. And if we don't think about it pragmatically and and develop it with intentionality, there's gonna be a huge risk for for most organizations.

Dr. Pelè 16:45

You know, I think that whoever is listening right now, a leader in an organization, might want to hear some tips and tricks, if you have any, about how they should think about protecting things like human judgment while still embracing automation or AI in some form or manner. What are your thoughts on some advice?

Kason Morris 17:05

Yeah, uh I mean it I would say that you know, you you have to look at anything you're doing with AI, like like think about it with a holistic picture around, you know, what are our near-term opportunity gains? And then also, you know, I go through generally a series of four core questions. There are there are more, but when I think about a leadership team, I want them to confront these four questions. And I've mentioned them throughout what we've discussed so far. It's where understanding where the value is created. That's that's that's the first and and most important question, you know, as you think about AI. And then it's like which work should the AI perform? So just because it can doesn't mean that it should. And that's why you have to hold space and

Four Questions For Responsible AI

Kason Morris 18:00

have that conversation. And then with the learning experts and those that you have around you, it's really once you break down work into tasks and things like we mentioned, it's like which work develops human judgment? So if you're a lawyer and you, you know, the elements of what you're doing, what are the things that actually help you become a stronger lawyer? If you're a project manager, what are the tasks that are helping you become a better project manager? So this is like sort of just the you know, pick your role, but just this, you know, systematic steps to kind of start to deconstruct of these tasks which things are are are the most valuable for human judgment. And then last but not least, it's like now that we're gonna redesign, because it's not saying avoid technology, but it's saying now we're bringing in technology, you know, with some intentionality. How do we redesign this workflow in partnership with that technology without weakening the human capability or the organizational capability? And and I think that's the the crux of it is you know, once you understand which pieces are the most important for developing the experts, now you can make a very intentional decision as to where to put the AI and how the AI and the humans will partner. So that way you're not weakening that development piece for employees. Doesn't mean every company will do that. So this is why it's a it's that this is why I want to have these conversations and why this is so important uh uh to evangelize for, because the way I see it, and and I think in our previous conversation, I kind of gave that anecdote around in in a couple of years, every organization's gonna have the AI equivalent of the iPhone. We're gonna have all the stuff, all the infrastructure, all those things working. And then it's gonna it's gonna become full circle because what's gonna matter? Your talent and the capability of that talent and those leaders to make decisions with those outputs. And then guess what's gonna happen? You're gonna have a huge shortage because you're gonna have a demand and a need. And even if you look at World Economic Forum research and all the things that are leading up to sort of that 2030 narrative, it's all pointing in that direction. That some jobs will go away, but new jobs are gonna be created and the gap of behaviors and skills to actually fulfill those jobs is gonna continue to widen if we're if we're not thinking thinking about it. So I say it as like if you're taking away the the the old bottom rung and you're building a new rung, but you're not giving people the ability to step into it, you're gonna be in trouble.

Dr. Pelè 20:34

You know, this topic is uh very dear to my heart because in fact that's what the human side of leadership uh is all about. Uh, you know, we're inundated with technology, AI, and other things. Um, how do we hold on to some of those things that really make us successful that are human? Uh so I I think I I couldn't agree with you more, especially with the idea that the more AI gets involved in things, the less we re or the more we realize how important the human skills are, right? You know, it's sort of what you're saying. Now, on this note, you know, coming closer to my world, if you will, I have a question I wanted to ask you about the human side of leadership. Um, especially with respect to learning, right? And and and behavior in organizations, and of course, and results. You know, we know organizations spend billions of dollars every year teaching people things, right?

Work Is Where People Become

Dr. Pelè 21:30

And yet we're not really sure that they're uh turning those things into uh behaviors and into results. Yeah. From your lens, the world that you you are building things like ex you know, execution visibility, how do we address that? What do you think about this problem?

Kason Morris 21:50

I think it's it's one that uh the world we're in now is is forcing um us to kind of change and look at with some intentionality. Because when you think about the old way of working, you know, work is not simply where people produce. Work, part of work is where people become. And what I mean by that is this is where they test themselves, where they develop confidence, they receive feedback, they form professional identities, they discover what they're capable of. So now that you're bringing in the AI into it, it's like people are losing that comfort, losing that sense of self in like how do I grow? How do I develop? And I I care about human and organizational performance, you know, but I also care about what kinds of humans our systems of work are producing. So it's it's like, yes, with AI, a highly efficient organization can be created, but that could leave people with less agency, with weaker judgment, with no developmental pathway. Uh, and and to me, that's that's not a a well-designed organization. That's not a human-first organization. Um, so so these are the kinds of things that when I when I sit in the seat that I sit in, I think about deeply as as I build these operating systems that are data driven and and will will essentially leverage um the power of the data to to drive these these AI implementations. But as they come to to as they come to fruition, it's just having that that partnership across all parts of the employee journey, uh, including our learning functions, our talent acquisition functions, our development functions, and and making sure that everyone has has skin in the game on on this this piece. It's like, yes, we can make the change, yes, we can reinvent, but why and so what, and then how are we keeping our human identities as a part of that?

Dr. Pelè 24:07

You know, as we uh obviously move into the future, we talk about the future of leadership. What's your view about that about you know what stays uniquely human? Like, you know, if AI becomes incre increasingly or really good at execution of tasks and different things, not that it's replacing humans, but where will where will humans shine? What becomes uniquely human?

Kason Morris 24:34

It's it's a powerful question. Um and I I can't say I don't have a crystal ball to kind of say exactly what that is. And and I think the the biggest idea that I I lean on at this point is the the judgment piece, and then also as we think about sort of the purpose of work itself. Like when one one thing that happened that I think we don't talk enough about is the the economics of this. Like, like essentially, if AI becomes more sophisticated, do

Leadership In An AI Economy

Kason Morris 25:10

people need to continue to quote unquote work? And then that begs the question of like, well, what is work in an AI era? And I would argue if we're keeping humans at the center of it, you know, the new barometers of work are not just the outputs, like the number of cods and widgets you produce, but it's about your ability to grow and develop. So it's like, how are you using these technologies to simulate scenarios where you're developing critical thinking and judgment and behavior change, and you're just doing you're just building those reps in that way. So when the time comes for you to make that uniquely human decision with the technology output, you're doing it better than the you know the next person, or you're doing it in the way that the the business is is looking for. And and that's how I I see it. I see what's uniquely human. It's not just becoming the old adage of the the learning organization. It's like how do we truly become like the the always learning, lifelong learning person? And and and we talked about this, I mean, in different capacities prior to the AI era, where it was like, oh, you're always be learning, you know? Uh, and and and now I think now there's gonna there's finally some teeth to it. Like, what does that really mean? You're you're now learning as a part of a function of being employable and of being viable in the future economics of the of the world.

Dr. Pelè 26:42

So you know, I I wrote down here a couple of really powerful quotes that you shared. One you said that um work is where people become. Uh, my friend, that is poetry. I love that. Work is where people become. You you gotta you gotta trademark that one. And then another one you mentioned was the the human first organization. That's the title of a book. I I think that's powerful. I think in all of these things, though, I I would love to know, let's say there's a CEO listening right now, or maybe any leader listening right now, if there was one thing you would love for them to take away or remember from this conversation, because there's a lot to unpack in in 30 minutes. I mean, you've done a lot of research. What would that one thing you would hope they would remember be?

Kason Morris 27:36

I would say that a task may be replaceable, but an experience may not be. So as leaders have these huge mandates to to figure out how to make AI work, you know, adoption of AI can can tell you the new thing that's present, you know, but when you start to think about why you're adopting it and what AI transformation

A Task May Be Replaceable

Kason Morris 28:10

actually is supposed to mean, you know, true transformation, I think, in this in this era of what we're doing is going to be about behavior change. Um, and and I think I think consumption of tokens and the adoption of technology, that that could be uh a potential illusion. Because as organizations deploy new platforms, complete trainings, report high usage, and we figured about our people, you know, employees are gonna preserve their old workflows and their old workarounds, and you're not gonna get all the value that you think you want out of this work. And this is why the discipline of visibility I think is so important and it being inclusive of not only how do we bring in technology, but how do we think about our people and continue to grow and develop them uh as we go through this transformation.

Dr. Pelè 29:14

Yeah, and and one of the things that I've told you that I get very excited about when it comes to our you know different paths is that for example, when you talk about behavior change, that's my world. You know, the world of of teaching people things and helping them change behaviors that push toward results and then having the behavioral visibility to recognize that it's actually changing, which to me sounds very similar to some of the things you talk about in execution visibility. So maybe we both need to talk some more about these things, huh?

Kason Morris 29:49

It sounds like there's a there's a wide, a wide, wide world, and and I think things go are going so fast. Sometimes you have to go slow to go fast. And and this doesn't mean that like you have to change everything overnight in this mode of thinking, but maybe for one or two critical roles or critical pieces of work. See, I'm even trying to, you know, my own behavior of talking about the work, not just talking about a job title or roles, but the language

Go Slow To Go Fast

Kason Morris 30:20

of work and and being able to think about it in that way, whether you're a leader in learning or a leader in HR, um, really the language of work is what translates to the business. So the more that we can speak in that in that language and bring data behind it that that supports these ideas of execution, visibility, and breaking down tasks and determining where AI should live and determining what humans should do, that's that's gonna be be the magic. And and you just do it one critical piece of work at a time and learn from it, advocate for it, evangelize around it, and and go go from there. I I think we we try to boil the ocean. Um and if you just just step back with a little bit of intentionality, you can go slow and and go deep and then be able to go a lot faster long term.

Dr. Pelè 31:15

Love that. Uh K-Sign, I'm gonna give you the last word. If you could uh just share with us uh outside of LinkedIn, which I'm gonna have in the show notes, where people can find you uh and what new exciting projects or uh events or anything that you're looking forward to that we gotta come see you for.

Kason Morris 31:34

Yeah, um, I mean, for me right now as a as a practitioner, I am, I mean, I have a website that I'm refreshing um where you can learn about my work. I also have a newsletter which I just started on LinkedIn called Execution Visibility. And and what I'm

Where To Find Kayson

Kason Morris 31:50

publishing is field notes. So again, I'm I'm on the ground doing this work and and just bi-weekly sharing the lessons and the ways of thinking uh as a way to scale this. Uh you'll you'll find me speaking at at events. Um there are a few events in the fall that I haven't officially confirmed yet, but um I'll I will certainly be there. Um and then also if you want to learn a little bit more about my philosophies and my way of thinking, um, to what you mentioned earlier, I have the book out on on Amazon. Well, my first book, which is more about the individual and and how they think about their their sort of life work, if you will.

Dr. Pelè 32:29

Um what is that what is that called again? Because I want to make sure I capture that.

Kason Morris 32:33

Oh, yeah, it's called life work revolution.

Dr. Pelè 32:36

Life work revolution. Got it.

Kason Morris 32:39

And and it it's think about it as as um all the things that I wish I knew 10 years ago as I've gone through the journey of reinventing, you know, my skill sets, my mindset, my stories, uh, and capabilities to to navigate, you know, various different sectors, and I've helped a bunch of other people do it. So it's full of stories and and just foundational, what I call like sort of future-proof principles that anyone could could provide. Um, but to kind of just close things out overall, like for those that would be listening to your to this podcast, you know, I think if you take it take away anything from this conversation, it's the idea that, you know, most organizations are currently in a position where they understand their art chart far better than they understand the work that actually creates value. And as we continue to talk about AI, understand that AI does not consume jobs whole. It changes tasks and decisions inside of them. And when we think about this moving to the human lens, the work is not only where people produce, you know, it's where people become. And that's how that's how I'm glad you you you called that out. And and even though some tasks may be replaceable, you know, the developmental spirit experience may not be. So when you think about that task, think about whether or not, hey, is this actually helping develop or grow the experts I may need for the future? Uh, and then last but not least, it's like, you know, you can't intelligently redesign work you can't adequately see. So these are the things that I just want people to to have in their heads as they navigate, you know, the transformations that they have to do. And if if anyone ever needs support or want wants to um have any questions, I I also keep a calendarly slot open to talk about these concepts. Um and I'm happy to speak about them, you know, with with team leaders, uh, or or do any kind of like you know, small group opportunities

Final Thoughts And Next Steps

Kason Morris 34:40

to just help educate.

Dr. Pelè 34:43

I love it. I love the execution visibility angle, and I love all the stuff you've shared. And I'm going to make sure we have the Life Work Revolution, uh, the Amazon link, uh, of course, your LinkedIn, and then your website. Yep. Heysan, it's been a pleasure, uh, just an honor to uh learn from you, listen to you, and talk to you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Kason Morris 35:04

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Pelè 35:05

All right.