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Shotgun Sports USA
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Shotgun Sports USA
Gary Fitzjarrell: The sport, costs, controversy and classification
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Have you ever found yourself squinting at the classification system in the NSCA, or laughing over the latest internet forum spat? Gary Fitzjarrell is here to take a no-holds-barred approach to the quirks and quandaries in the sport. From the psychological tug-of-war within the competitive community to the raw truths of being in a sport where ego can often outweigh talent.
As the conversation veers into the realm of personal authenticity and societal sensitivities, Gary doesn't shy away from stirring the pot. We confront the reality of competition, the sting of judgment both online and off, and how humor can be a double-edged sword in a world quick to offense.
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Shotgun Sports USA and USA Shooting
Speaker 1Welcome to Shotgun Sports USA . Powered by Winchester Ammunition , the American legend . Listen to the best shotgun shooters from all over the world in every discipline Championship-winning coaches , gun clubs , target setters , vendors , as well as companies that make it all happen , brought to you by Briley Rick Hemingway's Promatic Trap Sales , cole Gunsmithing , clay , target Vision , castellani USA and Falcon Strike . Thanks for listening and remember to visit us online at ShotgunSportsUSAcom , like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram .
Speaker 2This episode has no filter . My guest today lets it rip on several different topics , but the main topic is the classification system . If you haven't heard about that , listen in on this episode and it will be explained to you . Most of you know him and for those of you that don't be glad , here he is Gary Fitzgerald . Gary , what's up ?
Speaker 3Nothing much , man Just living a dream , waking up in a nightmare .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , it seems like every time I talk to you it's about the same way . It's about the same way Does it ever change for you ?
Speaker 3No , it's fresh . It's a fresh hell every day , every morning . That's why I don't go to the , don't ever send me a letter , because I don't go to the mailbox , because there's always a summons or something . I get in there , you know .
Speaker 2Somebody waiting outside to fight you .
Speaker 3Yeah , I got a deposition and that thing . I like to have been sued again today . That guy's going to sue me the other day because I posted a freaking personal message because he was going nuts about something on Facebook and I wanted to have just screen shot at the sheriff and he's going to sue me . I named a couple US Supreme Court cases of why that wasn't Good luck .
Speaker 2So you can . So if you send something to somebody and screen shot it and share it , you can get sued for that now , huh .
Speaker 3No , you can't . He thought he thought he thought you could and I said well , you didn't send an NDA . He didn't have me sign an NDA or say this was author record , sir , and I explained to a couple US Supreme Court cases here recently , or not recently , within the last 15 , 20 years , and he quit screaming at me . He was telling me all about his whatever is in our instructor and the fact that he was . He was taught by a sporting clays champion and I looked the person up and they weren't . But that's pretty much . That's normally how those fights go .
Speaker 2Was that champion in master class and should have been in B ?
Speaker 3No , sadly , I don't think they made it to . They might have just got out of D , so you know .
Speaker 2Might have won the championship tour in D class .
Speaker 3Right , right , you know how many of those , how many of the national world champions ? Well , I'm a . The guy was on there the other day he was talking about you know that his kid was a world champion and it turned out they were in E class , sub junior . But whatever man , whatever makes you feel better . I just . It's a psychological , sociological experiment for me every time I go on the internets .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think . What did you do ? Open it up to a bunch of crazy people .
Speaker 3What the internet ?
Speaker 2No , I'm talking about your Facebook page .
Speaker 3Oh , I don't know . I don't know Like .
Speaker 3I said I just kind of just sit back and watch it all happen . It's I don't know , I don't know . Sometimes I think it's a dream . I don't know if you've ever read the book Simulation Hypothesis , but it was guys in MIT . Mit guy and his hypothesis , or this theory , is this is all an illusion . This is a giant computer and we are living . Remember those books ? When you were a kid that was like choose your own adventure . Yeah , okay . So basically we're choosing our own adventure inside this simulation and we're getting to the different by us doing this . It's quantum mechanics is what it is , but by us doing this it creates another avenue of our own reality and that's what I swear to God . This can't be real . Some of the stuff you read in just the world and the internet , I mean even just shooting you're like there's no way that's real . There's no way that person is real . There's no way there's somebody . That's stupid .
Speaker 2What are they starting to call it now ? The metaverse or something like that ? The ?
Speaker 3metaverse , yeah , the metaverse , and that's you know . That goes back to , you know , the quantum mechanics and the simulation hypothesis that there is a multiverse and everything goes . Oh , dude , don't even get Dub started . He thinks the world was undone by the reality that we lived in , was undone by the CERN Hydrant Collider . Because we can remember bits and pieces of the former universe , like the Bernstein Bears or the Bernstein Bears , and then the Jiff peanut butter or Jiffy peanut butter , and then there's another one he's got . He says you remember when Disney , a Disney movie , started and Tinker Bell came out and wrote Disney and Daughter of the Eye ?
Speaker 2No .
Speaker 3And everybody . We all remember that it never happened . So , like I said , dub may be right , I don't know it's long winners up here . Justin , we thank you for some really weird shit .
Speaker 2Somebody told me one time they said listen , gary acts like an idiot , but he's one of the smartest people I've ever talked to . I said , oh okay , I see . Now I see why .
Speaker 3Apparently that guy's a liar . I must owe the money . He was trying to talk . Good , he's trying to get it from me .
Speaker 2What you've been doing .
Speaker 3Running this club bought a duck club in Louisiana trying to kill as much ducks to get my money out of that thing as possible . I'm shooting a little bit and then , because I have a hard time saying no , derek and Will Hinton , the rest of those guys they call them assholes . The guys talked me into getting on the USA shooting AC board . So I've been . We've been messing around with that .
Speaker 2Well , I don't know anything about USA shooting . Tell me a little bit about that .
Speaker 3Oh , like I said , they redid their board and they're trying to brought in a few new people in there and trying to restructure it and trying to get , you know , trying to all promote , get a little bit more fundraising , trying to get some oh , I won't say it a blanket oh , getting a shared membership with the other organizations and trying to bring in some new blood , trying to bring in some more donations , trying to help fund USA shooting Because , like I said , you know , for the most part a lot of people don't understand how these organizations are funded . There's acts , a government acts , where you know the government can't fund the Olympics team . Their Olympic teams , the most part , are done by donations . Other countries do though right .
Speaker 3Other countries . Do you know you got China , I mean most . Do you know you got countries like China and India pumping millions of dollars in their rifle and pistol programs ? And we're we're operating on funds , you know . I mean you know track , track and field basketball . You know all the other events . They can go to Nike or who have you and get money for funding , but we're a gun game . So getting donations sometimes hard , you know , always hard . So you know we've been working on that and we're trying to get some more people interested in it and trying to actually get some more exposure of how it all works . You know how you know the level that these kids are performing at .
Speaker 2So can anybody join USA shooting .
Speaker 3Yep , it's , it's . I believe it's 30 or $40 for your subscription and you can come in as an athlete or a competitor , you can come in as a donor , you know , and it one , it helps out the team and two , it lets you know a little bit more what's going on . You know and and and what's going on all these events . I mean , for the most part and this is how it's crazy is is communists , is the rest of the world is when it comes to guns . You know international competition shooting is huge . You know it's huge . I mean especially , you know , in the mid east and everything with with the bunker and the international ski . You know , you know KTR and , and I mean so on and so forth . They really really watch and there's a lot of competition . I mean some of their bunkers , or not some of the bunkers , most of their bunkers are just amazing . The , the , the , the facilities that they um compete at .
Speaker 3And , like I said , you know we don't . You know trap and ski or trap and sporting place takes precedent over here . You know we , we don't have a lot of bunkers . You know we have more than we used to . You know , when my dad was shooting back in the sixties and seventies , I mean there was bending , um , I think there's one in California and there might have been one on the East coast , and when they were running through all the qualifiers , um , and a lot of the qualifiers , they shot modified bunker . They shot off a wobble trap and stood on top of a box . You know the , the , the , the , we were not spending even nearly back in those days . But now I mean there's more . Maybe Hillsdale's got one and and um Kerville . Now you know ski Kerville's got a bunker . You know there are more bunkers being built .
Speaker 2There's one down here in Georgia work Hinton used to will . Hinton used to be at right . Where's he still ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I mean there's one . There's one down there for it , but for it more now , but it's for it bending . Um , there's that one . I'm not , I said there's one down . They just built some down in Florida . Um , cardinal center's got some , you know .
Speaker 3I mean , you know , like I said , it is getting more but we got a long way to catch up with all the rest of the world and we do an amazing job . Um , because you know , I mean , if you're in Europe and you're going to go shoot a bunker match , you know it's not that far to go to all the different . You know . You know if we are going to get outside of the United States , we're flying and it's going to be an eight hour trip at the minimum just to get over to Europe . But but yeah , they do shoot , they do . I think they put a little bit more weight to it . You know , I think they put a little bit more weight to it and I think they put a little bit of that emphasis on on the performance and , like I said , that's the thing where we're . I like we were trying to get USA shooting out in front of the general population to see what they actually do .
Speaker 2What ? What benefit is it for someone to join USA shooting , Say , someone's a member of the NSCA . What's the what's the benefit of them joining USA ?
Speaker 3Well , I mean I mean on several different levels . I mean you know , if you're a junior competitor and you're coming up through it , you know the . You know if you're a shotgun shooter , maybe it'll give you some exposure what's going on , maybe it'll interest you . You know there's a . There's a lot of kids that that don't know about bunker or international ski and it might , you know , it would benefit you as they shoot and you get more blood . I mean , the more people you try and the more competition and you always got to have somebody coming on . So there's that part of it . And the other thing is like , if you're , if you're a guy that you know there's a lot of guys that support our FITAS team and our our , you know , world English team . I mean you know , you know , get it out in front of the guys that would would love to support them , support your country , help , help somebody you know , help guys that you know that you shoot sporting players with will . I mean , for example , will Hinton and Derek Mine . You know we have sporting play guys . You know , help , support them and get them to . I mean , you know path to Paris right now is a is a 2024 . We got to qualify her in Tucson and March . You know , help these guys get their support . I mean these guys are doing , you know , obviously they're funding is is miniscule compared to what trap . You know track and field , so on and so forth . So you know , get it out there . You know , see what we mean .
Speaker 3People don't realize that a lot of the well , not a lot of them a lot of the World Cup events , you know ice , heat and bunker are televised . You can tune in on . You can turn it , tune in on a YouTube channel and watch the guys , because those all go to super finals . You know you got to shoot good enough to make that's that final which is all on flash targets . They've got a commentator way more televised . You know to tell a visible televised . However you want to say that word , I'll say I want to . But anyway , you know , you know they'll , they do . You know real time scoring , referees , so on and so forth , and you can watch it on YouTube and just stuff like that that people don't know about . Go see Derek shoot off , you know . Or go see Wil Hinton , or see all the different countries shooting off , and it's always , you know , it's always on live streamed on YouTube .
Speaker 2All right . So you talked about trapping skeet or international trapping skeet . What else does USA shooting offer ?
Speaker 3Well , usa , I mean , you know we've got there's like there's 4,800 members in it . Now it's damn near cut down the middle between your rifle and pistol . I mean rifle and shotgun pistol is a small portion of it . But I mean you've got your air rifle , your free pistol , your rapid fire . Then you've got your air , you know air gun and 22 caliber rifle classes , you know . And .
Speaker 2I might have said that BB gun class .
Speaker 3I don't know . I mean you couldn't do it unless they brought a Q beam with you to the , to the Olympics . You know , kid can't hit shit , unless you're putting a Q beam on that target and he gets real good .
Shooting Bunker and International Skeet
Speaker 2Yeah , those people you know , just talking about that , watching them shoot those guns . It's the 22s , it's crazy , it's nuts it is nuts , I mean .
Speaker 3I mean it looks like you could do it until you've if you've ever tried it and I've tried it and you're just sitting there going Dear Lord , I mean when you're shooting in between heartbeats , you know , you got the code on it , you got the big leather outfit . You got that freak I mean they were , they were that weird , they were a weird shoe Sometimes got a base pad on it and you're just sitting there .
Speaker 2No , no recall .
Speaker 3Yeah , trying electronic triggers and then USA shooting also goes in the biathlon the so , the so , the skiing and the skiing and the 22 caliber stuff .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't even know how they do that , yeah .
Speaker 3Oh , my God , oh , you'd be a , you'd be a great candidate .
Speaker 2You know I don't be on my back taking a breath .
Speaker 3Oh yeah , Type type two diabetes is not considered a sports injury in that game , you know . But yeah , can you imagine that , Like , like you're going to go be a world clash rifle shooter and then , okay , by the way , let's just go ahead and be a world class cross country skier and be really fit to do , to go where you're not breathing hard ? No man , I'm good .
Speaker 2And then shoot . How big , how big is their pattern ? They shoot like in a quarter .
Speaker 3It's a tiny . It's a tiny , you know , and as I think it biathlon , I'm pretty sure in biathlon it's been a while . I think you're shooting a steel target . You're shooting like a little bitty , little bitty , little bitty circle . Yeah , I mean , those guys are different , man . You know when , when , so Riley and Diana , they didn't want to take Riley to the , they went to 21 . When Tokyo NBC Sports , universal Studios , they sent the families to do a watch party and Diana , diana and Riley didn't , didn't want to go . So Derek sent G W and I down to Universal Studios in Florida . So we went to the whatever . And you know , obviously our shit wasn't televised . We watched it on on the , the computer , at night , at three o'clock in the morning , when it was . But I met a few of the families whose people , whose kids were , um , well , his son was in the unit at many . But the rifle guys , they aren't like us , man , that is , that is a completely different breeding . Those people are calm , they're , they're nice , they're polite , they're not shotgun shooters , that's for sure .
Speaker 3Yeah , hey , so it works oh it is man , and those guys that do that , you know , are just , you know , just like I said , I can't , I can't imagine doing it , you know . But , like I said , those guys liked it , like it , and but , like I said , that's all the different parts and we , just , we just want to get you know they're going to try to make a push to get some more exposure and , um , get a presence , so people actually know what's going on . You know , I mean there's a lot of guys that have said to you know , like , ask me about Derek , because I mean , derek and I are pretty good buds . You know why is he ? You know why , why does he want to do that ? And I'm like , because it's it's .
Speaker 3I mean , I hate to tell you unless you've been around it , and I have it's , it's a pinnacle man , it is . There's not a lot . I mean , if you're going , that means you got one of the quota spots , so you're one or at the most , two people from your country that got to go in that discipline . You know , this ain't a shoot that you just sign up for and as long as you got your , you know , you know your dollar general mastercard isn't maxed out . You can enter it and you know you got to perform on this stuff and your country has to perform at World Cup events to get you a quota spot , to have one or two people fight for those quota spots .
Speaker 3You know it's it's hard , man , it's hard you know , you know , and then and then you get a guy out there to shoot bunker . Once , unfortunately , I've had to sit there and shoot with Derek Um , you know . I mean the sporting guy comes out here , he can shoot a good score the first time and then it slowly erodes on you . It's just um , it is just a different . It is not enjoyable . There's nothing you can save or you're not savoring your breaks , you're just praying to God you get them .
Speaker 2Do you think ? I mean , I could ask Derek this , but do you think Derek likes that better than sporting ? Or fee task ?
Speaker 3Opinion . I mean , I think he loves fee task , I mean I think he loves sporting , but I think he's . It's a , in my opinion , you know , obviously the kid's a competitor . I think it's a means that it ends . You know , it's a mean to , it's a way of getting the Olympics . You know , and in order for you to go to the Olympics , you're either going to shoot international ski , um , or you're going to shoot a bunker . So that's that's what . And you , you know , pick your poison and pick , you know , pick your pain , and it's , you know , and that's what it's going to do . And he wants to go to Olympics again .
Speaker 3So , so does Will Hinton , so does Seth Inman , you know . So , all of those , all those guys and you got , you got guys that are training for that , for those few spots . And I mean training , I mean they're shooting , and they're shooting every day . Yeah , um , it's , it's a , it's , it's a bitch , you know it is , it is tough .
Speaker 2That metal and and for that metal .
Speaker 3And then you know , if you look at what happened in Tokyo , you know Derek didn't metal Kayleigh , kayleigh did , um , you know , maddie , and , and those guys did , derek didn't . If you look at the scores from that , if you look at the scores from that Olympics and compare them to the other , they were some of the highest scores ever shot in Olympics . I mean there was a lady , um , I mean it was Rahak Um , she shot a 125 . She shot a straight and that's unreal . That's . I mean , that's the woman shooting the same targets as the men and she was the only person to run 125 . You know , the last person to run a 125 and , like I said , somebody can fact check me on this one the last person to want a 125 and Olympic games was Mick Diamond from Australia , and that was I can't well , I think that might have been London or might have been . It was . It was a while back , I can't that wasn't .
Speaker 3London , it was , it was Sydney , maybe I can't remember , but anyway . So he shoots a 125 . But then again that game is such a fickle bitch that . So she shoots a 125 on the same layout and everything that everybody else did , and then when it came time for her to shoot the pairs , if I remember right , you know she crashed , but she didn't do as well . It's just . It's just such a balancing act in that game .
Speaker 3And you can slip , you slip and you can either slip a bird or you can free fall to the end . But it is what it is and it's just like for Derek it's a chance for him to get the Olympics .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3You know , you know a lot of guys have tried and they realize what a . You know you . It's just , it's he ain't . He ain't going out there shooting targets .
Speaker 2You ain't shooting clays , you know you know , but you think , what do you think would be harder ? Shooting bonker or being a big guy shooting international skeet ?
Speaker 3I don't know . I mean , I don't know I have shot .
Speaker 2Yeah Right , the movement that yeah , we caught up on everything .
Speaker 3Yeah , or or a chesty or a chesty girl shooting international skeet . Yeah , yeah , easy there .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah , right , right , right , right , right , you know , yeah , that's .
Speaker 2I don't know , I can't move fast enough on regular American skeet . Much less crazy , yeah , yes , much less having the , you know , mount your gun at your waist .
Speaker 3Yeah , I mean you watching guys , yeah , watching down there and you're not moving to the target and you got that . You got a delay in there .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 3I mean you know you got . You know Vincent shot so much of it before that and I don't know of many guys . I mean you probably got a named Matt , right , and and Drake was a unit guy with Carl Isle and Randy Moss or Randy boss . I mean Randy boss , randy Moss guy did everything . But but yeah , randy , randy , all the beauty guys and and and Drake and those are just , they're just amazing .
Speaker 1Yeah , randy , was that fucker did everything .
Speaker 3I'm still laughing , but got Justin tickled but oh man . Oh , that's all I know , that's all . That's all , that's all I've been doing , man . I'm just like said me and me and running G dub around , he's wrestling and and um , you know trolling , you know just just enjoying , enjoying the , the cries out from the , the masses on this re uh . Rescheduling , reevaluation of masterclass .
Speaker 2Yeah , let's talk about that for a second or 30 minutes , whatever , but all right . So if you're in masterclass and you didn't get this year , I think this this year when does the new system start starting ?
Speaker 3The 15 , as I understand , the 15 punches minimum , and the point for CCR is this year , next year , I don't know no spoiler alert , but it's gonna be completely dead . It's gonna be a little bit , it's gonna be a little higher and on the punches , and I Don't think there's gonna be some changes and there's gonna be a lot more crying next year . So save your tears , boys . It's more common . I Don't .
Speaker 2I don't understand it All right . So if you're in masterclass , right , and you're not competitive or you don't shoot a lot , I don't see the reason to still stay in masterclass . I don't , or any class , I mean , I don't .
Speaker 3I Don't know . I mean I don't understand it , I mean it's , it's crazy . I mean the first of all , and I just wrote an article , that's one thing . I mean I actually in litter and I bought a Apple Laptops . I'm writing articles now , but I think I just wrote an article about this , about for them , for clay shooting USA , and then for Matt Gays new Matt magazine .
Speaker 3But the title master , I think , is what skews the numbers or skews the view of it , skews the skews the view of how these guys look at it . You know , I Don't think guys , I mean , you know this is all you know guessing . But you know we got a lot of guys that were not Competitive shooters , as in they didn't come from Skeeter trap . Now , now in the game , we got guys that picked this game up and this is all they probably ever shot . Yeah , some , some right . So the idea of moving up and down in class and getting paid for moving up and down in class and the fact that it's just a classification based on your skills kind of eludes them . You know it became , I think Matt Henning From California had this one really good . You know , he said it's like a black belt , like giving a kid a black belt or a yellow belt or a Bronze belt or whatever . However , that shit works . I don't know . I didn't go to Marshall arch . Dad gave me . Dad , gave me a freaking Parabras knuckles and said handle yourself shit . You know how to handle your shit , son . But but you know , and and it's no longer a classification based on your ability , it's a merit , you know , it's an award ? Well , it's not , it's based on your ability . And if you're not shooting , well , why ? In the hell ? You know ? You know , like I said , I've asked how many times I've done the troll poise .
Speaker 3What do you guys think about Compulsory purses ? First of all , they don't know what compulsory means , and then , when they get back to , what a purse is they ? They , you know they can't figure that out either , but you know , I ask them what if there's mandatory money back that you had to play like ? Everybody that enters the nationals Pays a hundred dollars or two hundred dollars I mean truthfully , a hundred dollars . If a hundred dollars keeps you from going to nationals , then the 23,000 bucks you spent getting there probably should have been their first indication that you couldn't be but any , whatever . You know . And then you say that and these guys don't want to because they don't have a chance of winning anything . But my opinion is like if you had a chance of winning it , you know if you were classified right or you were in that you know , you know , you know upper 30% or upper 40% or you're competitive in that class You'd probably be more apt to coming up with some money because there's a chance you could win .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3So I mean that goes to that part , but I don't understand the People refusing the classes .
Discussing the Class Ranking System
Speaker 3I mean why ? I mean that's the , that's a serious question . It's why . Why do you want to keep getting your ass ?
Speaker 2beat . I'm thinking about this . The only time that anybody knows what class you're in when you're at a tournament is when you sign up and they say okay , you're shooting master class , All right , that's the first time . The second time is if they look at your scorecard . Other than that , there's no other time brought up at a tournament what class you're in ? No , no there's .
Speaker 3Yeah , so you're . That's a good point . I've never , actually never , thought of that .
Speaker 2So you know who knows what class I mean . I shoot all the time with people . I'm like I don't , class is in , I don't care what class is in , you know , I mean I could tell by the way , shooting me , he's probably in you know a beginner or a grease good or whatever , but nobody knows what class you're in , unless you're gonna sit there and study the scorecards .
Speaker 3You know what I'm saying unless , unless there's a guy that and this is something I've heard , cuz it gives you like said you know , there's this . Oh Christ , what is this is 33 , 33 , 33 , 34 years that I've been at this stuff . I mean Mike , jesus Christ , my sir , my nsda numbers got zeros in it . You know , there are guys that always come in hey man , I'm trying to make master class and I'm like cool , that's great . Well , I really want to make master . And then I've asked a few times like why , and Then what I want to make master , and then what you know , and they can't figure it out . I'm like , and dude , you guys are pushing it way too hard . You're not developing your skills , you're not gonna be competitive , you're gonna make it . I mean , that's the reason .
Speaker 3The sub gauge , I mean People that shoot , people that shoot sub gauge now like to shoot sub gauge . I we had a couple state shoots here and there was a lot of guys that signed up to shoot the sub gauge events . They did not shoot the main , they were after punches To get into a class where they could not be competitive and then their interests Wains , they get , they don't know , they're tired of getting beat . They've done all they can do , and then they quit .
Speaker 3Yeah and that is the reality . That's the thing that these guys that don't , that they're not on the other side of the fence on it or the other side of this table of how it works . We lose shooters , yeah , because they're no longer competitive , and I was like dear god man . I mean , the thing is we're giving away too many punches . Dude , I didn't shoot last year . I shot 2,000 targets . I averaged a freaking punch per hundred with a point one eight . Oh , ccr , I suck anymore . I'm not , I'm not working at it now . If I can do that , and you guys were pumping around that point five , point six , point seven , you need to be in a different class .
Speaker 2All right , talk about how that work and some people don't have that .
Speaker 3That break down yeah right that that's hard for people . I can't figure it out . So it's , it's . It's where you rank in your class . So it's the smaller the number , the better you are , the better you are right . So if you're a point five , you're dead center in the middle of the pack and that is where you're averaging that you , and it moves up and down . It doesn't move as much now that we don't have sub gauge in it , but it moves based on your performance for your ear .
Speaker 3So you have a bad tournament . You know . You know it goes to a bigger number . Point six means you're in the bottom 40% . Okay , you know point seven , you're in the bottom 30% . You know that's how those numbers work . If you're in , if you're point two , you're in the upper 20% of that class and that number will fluctuate and it gives you it probably hell . It gives you an amazing snapshot of how you're performing in that class . You know , if you're a point four , you're in the 40% and up of Of master , you're damn near in the middle . But a guy that's point seven , you're still not gonna win nothing .
Speaker 3If you're not gonna win nothing .
Speaker 2No , if you're in the 40 , if you're in the top 40% of the class , I mean you have a top 10% , got a chance , but the top 40% you might as well go back down that double a yeah , you're not winning .
Speaker 3You're not winning , you know , and I , you know , I think this you know , you know , on a statistics , on running statistics and averages and stuff like that , you know you're probably closer . You know the classes should not look like a balloon going up the top Two classes , on statistics , on average law , averages ain't master and double a should not be the biggest . You should be . Probably BC should be your biggest . You know , biggest portion of your classes , right , you know . And then you know I think they're gonna do away with E class next year , which is great , because there's nobody in E class . There's nobody .
Speaker 3And getting punched out of E class is hard , you know . But I mean , for example , I mean dub , dub , one E class at North Central Regional and the kid don't shoot , he shot good , he's very proud of himself . And then he goes to the board same thing we probably all did when we were his age or still do and he started looking that everybody beat , he beat he's why could have won . I think he said he could have won D class Maybe you're something like that or whatever baby second or third in it , but then and he goes , he goes . Dad , I beat masters , I go . Yeah , you beat masters . I said you shot your scores and you beat masters . I said do you think there's a problem ? Master , he goes , yeah , he goes a master . I should never be , I should never beat , beating a master .
Speaker 2No , not someone to send me I mean in order , I think you start and D now , right when it's when you sign up , you start and D and they go moving down to eat , or is that wrong ? I ?
Speaker 3Think you start and D . Well , I don't know , they keep screwing with that one . You know , it's like . You know , I think he started in D and the second he shot some targets . They reevaluated them , I mean at one time , that's how they did it and the , of course he and him and Liam got bunch back to eat because the boys don't shoot and the boys shouldn't be , and the boys should be in E class , not because they're they're they're not working , they're not shooting . He should be punched out of it by now . But when he goes to shoot , shoots , well , there's three other guys or two other guys , and he doesn't get a punch . Mm-hmm , you know , because we've got wrong classification . I mean , there's like said , it's just not . You know .
Speaker 3You know the story on master . You know it's almost biblical at this point , but you know there was a , there was a , there was guys that took it serious , guys . That that's what they did . They , you know , they've been instructed and gave lessons and they people were getting tired of getting beat , so they raised hell , you know . And the EC got together and they said , okay , cool , let's create a new class or an occult master . And they put people in there and I forget what year it was , 95 or 96 they took the hand , selected these people . They all wore a special number and they put a master . Everybody was happy , you know , and they saw it was good . And the Lord said make master . And the people said and they saw it was good , you know . And so that was cool , that solved the problem . The guys that weren't winning Still weren't winning , but they weren't losing as bad . And and then they were like well , we need to make it when people can punch into it , which it was . That's how it was .
Speaker 3So , you know , they started doing the punches and guys worked hard because they wanted to be elite , they wanted to be at the top tier , they wanted to be master , and Then a few of us punched up to it . I think I punched into 98 , maybe you had to go to big shoots . You had to go to a big shoot , you had to travel , so on and so forth , and we did , because you know we were , you know we're competitive , and I remember getting into it . And then I remember going to shoots Locally or you know , whatever , in this area where I was the only you know not the only master , but I was , you know , two or three other masters .
Speaker 3Well , now people got mad because they weren't getting enough punches , because they wanted to be masters too . So they made it where you could get more punches . And then guys started working hard and they started shooting sub gauge and then they , you know , for a 50 bird event they got the same amount of punches for a hundred bird event . And guys were gaming the system , you know , and then now everybody's in master and they're crying to make a pro class . So it's just like , you know , they got what they wanted , but now they don't . Now we're back to our same same spot .
Speaker 2So so do you know ? You probably don't know this number , but how many people were that were in ? Master didn't take the Down classification . I .
Speaker 3Don't know the that Chris was on specifics , but I believe 5% of the people down class Refused it . So about 400 and something people Refused the down class .
Speaker 2And so , and that's across the board .
Speaker 3That's a class , that's all the classes . And I haven't seen . I think I saw the numbers but I didn't really care , so it looked too deep . But you know , you know , it's , it's just , you know , and it makes no sense , you know . But the only thing it makes sense for is they want the monocle moniker of Monocle moniker of being master , because for some reason it means something to them . You know , I mean I'm there for the candy dishes , you know , in the glory .
Speaker 2There's no reason to I mean this is I mean people . Can you know ? When we post this episode up , I want people to comment below and tell us if you got down , classed or were asked to be moved down class , or or asked to be moved down a class , why or why not ? Were you for it ? Or yeah , I I'd like to hear .
Speaker 3I'd like to hear it . I mean , I've asked the question on on the internet and you know somebody's what's done to your business , or you know , you know .
Speaker 2Whatever ?
Speaker 3and I'm thinking but the question is why Did you ? Why do you think ? Why did you choose to be in there ? You know , do you ? You know it doesn't make sense on a classification system that is based on your ability , if your ability says you're not in a Class double A or whatever , why do you want to stay in there ? That's the one that blows
Discussion on Classifications and Competitive Drive
Speaker 3my mind . You know we say it's all ego on the dub , on the master , but why would a guy stay in a class ? Don't you want to win ? Why are you at the shoot Right ?
Speaker 2I mean it is .
Speaker 3That's a lot of question . It's a lot of money . You're paying dues , you're paying six cents , seven cents , and some states you know we're Um To go do this , but you're just doing it because you want to hang out with your buddies and Shoot a tournament . Then if the winning doesn't matter to you , why do you care what class you're in ? Right , I mean , the argument doesn't hold water . You know , well , I'm just there for this . Well then , it doesn't matter what class you're in . You ought to just be in hunter class , or you ought to if you know , you ought to just being . If you're just there to shoot against your buddy , I just shoot for myself .
Speaker 3Yeah bullshit , that's bullshit , that's bullshit . You want to win . You know , like I said , I had a this . This is always a funny part about this one , those guys don't give a shit about winning . But the second , you don't have a trophy for them for the side event when they run it up or got second place in B class and you didn't have a freaking trophy for you . They're up your ass . Why don't you have a trophy for the ? You know , for the , the shot shell , rabbit , bonanza , sight of it . No , dude , I've seen it , I've had , I've had my ass chewed out about it .
Speaker 3I'm like , sir , we don't do trophies for this tournament , set for high overall , because that's all that matters . The , it's a 50 bird side event . I'm not buying . You know , whatever classes they are . I mean , you know I , of course I said hey , man , I got a barn full of old trophies , go take your pick in there , man . You know the people didn't pick them up , but that's what I'm getting at is like there's this human psychology of this shit is like . You know , I'm sorry . You cannot make fun of the kids that do soccer , that get a trophy and call them the trophy generation . When you're wanting , you're wanting , you're doing the same thing . You want to be in a class that you didn't earn . You know that you're no longer in you , you raise those little bastards . Yeah , I'm sorry , sir , you know I mean . I mean I don't mean to be that way , but it's stupid . It's a classification based on your current , your current ability .
Speaker 2Now can you say you get that move down from master to double a and you don't do worth a flip and double a this year ? Do they move you down to a ? I ?
Speaker 3I'm not for certain . If you start , as the first paragraph of that new rule states , if you start and end the year in the same class , you will be reviewed .
Speaker 3Yeah okay , and that's the way it starts . I've had to explain that to a couple people . I got that , did that . I explained that to a guy's wife , till , about 940 at night I'm helping a reading and then the next thing , you know , the same guy was bashing me on Another message to a friend of me of what a what a shit sir or was and how I'm not helpful . And I was like , wow , man , I just talked to your wife that I've never met before and I've never met you before and I tried to help you understand English , which is hard , might not , might not have been the guy's first language , but but I , you know , I highlighted it and showed them .
Speaker 3You know top to bottom , left to right , what this said and you know , if you're not , if you start the class in the class , if you start the year and end the year in the same class , you will be reviewed unless you have the prerequisite of punches for said class . Yeah , it's pretty easy . Seems like it's not , but it's pretty easy , you know . You know you either get enough punches , have a high enough CCR , or if you move up in class during the year . So if you punch in the master , you get a free year to learn how to shoot , you know , or you punch up the double a . You get a year to prove that you're competitive before the next year . Code shows up yeah , you know ?
Speaker 2yeah , I mean , you can look at it two different ways . You can . You can strive for masterclass again and get another pen . Okay , yeah , you have two people . You have a hat full of masterclass pens when you finished . You know what I'm saying and then you get . You get to make some money too . If you're that good , to where you're gonna punch back into master .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think that's the other component that's changed is , you know , like the old , I noticed some guys here at our club , like Bob Maples and all these guys , dale Randall , one day you're rallying to shoot . They are trap shooters . They delighted in being punched down Because they knew they were gonna get paid For moving up . They'd go to the US Open and shoot well , or they go to this shoot , shoot well . Then they wouldn't make crazy money because these guys , they like Barry Pickett from you know Dallas says they bred the gamble out of these boys .
Speaker 3You know , when you got a stand there at the US Open at Claythorne and explain to a group of people what a Calcutta is , the , the , the betting , the , the gambling part of the game , done , left the building , yeah , you know that ain't that , ain't that , ain't nothing . But no , they . You know I said that the guys that have had previous experience in other disciplines , they delight in moving down because that means they can get paid for moving up . You know , I'd love to be , I'd love to , I would love to be bumped down to a or double a and just be like .
Speaker 1Hey .
Speaker 3I just whipped y'all's ass and an egg , by the way , y'all suck . I told a couple guys that north-south of that I was like man . I don't shoot anymore . I beat you , jesus Christ , he's what's wrong now .
Speaker 2Now can someone still Declare up a class when they go to register ?
Speaker 3I believe you can declare , as rule states . You can declare to every class . But master , all right guys , yeah , you can't do it , I believe you can go to every class . But , master , and I believe there's a clause in there that says a shoot can . I don't know if they can , maybe they used to , maybe they've changed it , but used to be .
Speaker 3You could Know , nobility yeah you know , I think you could do no nobility . You know , I believe , like Ricky Marshall , I think Ricky Marshall , when he signed up the NSCA , they put him in double a because he was a triple a . I Think that's right , or maybe it was somebody else . But yeah , no nobility . Previous organizations , you know then , then you can get , you can get bumped into talk about no nobility for a minute .
Speaker 2Explain what that is . I mean no , nobility is pretty much what it is , I mean .
Speaker 3Yeah , if you're coming over from another discipline In an organization , you've got a classification . They'll move you up . You know they'll put you in a hire cuz you know I mean you know Richard Falls coming over , george Digwee coming , obviously they've shot enough . Now but say if someone of that caliber was to come over from a different country with a different organization and they're in this class , you're not gonna let them be and you're not gonna put them in D . You know you're not gonna start them off and eat . You know you've got . You've got to keep it fair . Of course they're shooting for HOA , but it is taking care of those guys that have shot another discipline , that are , whatever their ability is , in that discipline . You can classify my known ability .
Speaker 2Let me ask you this should I be excited because I'm excited about this ? Should I be excited that my son is an E-class and we're going down to Jack Lynch for all that big money ? Oh Hell , yeah , I mean , should I be excited that I'm taking him to win the money ?
Speaker 3No , hell , no , that's what you're doing . You know , that's what you know . I mean you know that's great , I mean it's funny . It's ego too . It's really cool seeing a kid whoops who dulls ass . It's great , I mean , it's great , I mean the thing is , the thing is it pisses me off with the , with people , with adults . You know , the furthest we get further we go with my childhood , the less we remember what it's like to be in a kid , and that's the biggest failing as an adult .
Speaker 3Your boy is just as nervous as you would be going to that shoot . You know they think it's so easy for these kids . Oh , I ain't got nothing on their mind , bullshit . I was a junior shooter , sack was a good junior , derek and all of us , you know we are just just or as more Excited about winning and we've had less time to learn how to win and to handle the nurse . Yeah , yeah , that kid's gonna be great . I mean , I mean he's like I watched dub . I mean dub , one of the fun to shoot here on one of the ring games Winner . Spectacular . Dub took second in the police , you know , and as a dad I'm sitting back here going kid Just whoop y'all's ass .
Speaker 3Yeah , just let you know that . You know , just letting y'all know makes you feel good , don't it ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm also yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . What y'all watch this ? It's not like , hey , I'm about to come in there and beat everybody . It's like I'm gonna , hey , my son over here about to beat y'all .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's great . Yeah , I kid that's great man . Yeah , be excited about that . I said just . I said always , remember I always hated that you're gonna shoot off and some adult would make an excuse why you beat them in a shootoff and Whether is any kid or I kid , ain't got nothing on your mind , bullshit . That kid wanted to win . You wanted to win just as bad as that kid did hell . The kid might even wanted to win it more than you did , but you know just people it is .
Speaker 3It is funny to see them , little kids , shoot damn . They sure have fun .
Speaker 2So you know what you think the years gonna be like this year , Just just in general , what you think it's gonna be like , think it's gonna be good . Yeah , you got what both when you got world fee task at Ant's place .
Speaker 3I'm talking about . Yeah , I thought you meant , like the grief counselors , the NSCA is hired . Come on , trans , the trans , the trans class , the trans masters , that's what we started calling .
Speaker 2How many cars you think my camp is got ?
Speaker 3Oh , I changed his number . I Know it's gonna be a hell of a year . I mean I , if you , if you .
Looking Ahead to a Busy Year
Speaker 3All I can say is , if you've got a credit card that that pays you off miles or gives you bonus points or whatever for spending , this is a year to have it .
Speaker 2It's gonna be a bunch of stuff , a bunch of good stuff .
Speaker 3Shit , you got an Anthony's . It's been full For how long . I mean I don't want to like say it's not full , but it's . It's been a lot of people signed up for it for over a year , yeah how you ?
Speaker 2can you sign up for the 25 nationals now , can't you in that right ?
Speaker 3Oh , I think . So I'm gonna make up a shoot for 20 to 20 , 38 and see if I . Give me a deposit and hope and hope . The world , the hope , hope society collapses by then might be the greatest one ever .
Speaker 2You know , Freakin , I don't know . I can't figure out what I'm doing in 2024 , yet much less 2025 .
Speaker 3Well , you know , and I shouldn't say this , but John Comerford doesn't give a shit . John says he never signs up till the day of the shoot and he's like I'm always flexible when I can shoot . I don't care when I shoot . I sign up the day of . There'll always be a cancellation and I take it .
Speaker 3That's probably right , oh you know Comerford , I mean that's just how he is . He was . I love John , I'm . We're gonna go have a cock . They were gonna have a couple beers with them . This this weekend we're going down to SCI but yeah , there's some shoots . Man , I mean you got US Ovens brett's . I want us . I'm setting for that one . Pete Malloy's got world fee task and I'm setting for that one . It's gonna be a year . I mean dub and I may go to nationals , depends . I think we're gonna go out west and shoot prairie dogs . He's got a couple sporting shoots . He wants to shoot . But we're kind of saving our money a little bit . We're gonna go to Africa in 25 . We're gonna do it right . So Nice , you know .
Speaker 2You know , that's what you're gonna do out there .
Speaker 3He's gone . We're going to Calhari . He's . I'm not doing shit . I'm gonna shoot birds If we get time for a couple days . He's killing everything . I don't want to kill anything anymore .
Speaker 2Too much work .
Speaker 3Other than a dog other than a dog other than a bird , where I get to pull the trigger a lot . I'm really not into it . I mean , like said , we went out with the Braxton Oliver Bear hunt . They come out , they come out , froze the death deer hunt with us . And then we were before that we went to North Carolina and shot a bear . Now , as a dad and dad , you get it , you know , does 14 does kill a lot of shit .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3I mean does drop a lot of shit , but he still gets so excited over killing big game and he missed think he missed three bears and Missed up just a monster . Sal Wasn't missing but much he's couldn't get it done . And finally , little bitty bear , a hundred pound bear , not much of a bear , coming at us and he's Still shaking . He's sitting on my lap because he can't see over the rail and he's just shaking , man , and I'm just like going , this is great . And he goes , hold me , dad , hold me , damn time . And I felt the air go out of him because I'm gonna shoot this bastard in the head . I can get all the hell off my lap . Those . He goes . I can't , I'm moving , I'm shaking too bad . That's what's cool about it , man .
Speaker 3Yeah , you know that's what's cool about it . You know I mean you know I'm glad he meant I . Honestly I'm glad he missed the big sal because you know you get a kid pop out of 350 400 pound bear First freaking bear .
Speaker 2Mm-hmm .
Speaker 3What are you gonna do , man , it's like you're grizzly bear hunting . Yeah , killin guys . Go kill a grizzly bear . I can kill something bigger , but but yeah , we're gonna go to Africa . He's I'm not pushing . He's gonna start shooting at high school trap league in the fall , because he's not a basketball player and he likes it .
Speaker 1He's yeah right , you know he's , he's held .
Speaker 3He likes to wrestle , but but now he's just um , you know I'm not pushing him a shoot . I don't want to burn him out . You know I want him to to . You know , warm up to it . You know he likes to . He likes the ring games . He loves you , to least because he's comfortable . You know and I wasn't like Derek was watching him this year he's , he's uh , you know , he's grown into that gun . He's getting stronger and he moves , he's doing better . But , like I said , it's all fun . Jesus Christ man . All we're doing , all we're doing is we're killing time between birth and death . We're trying to find something to preoccupy his time before warm food . So , either way , you know , don't take yourself too serious , because you ain't getting out of this shit alive .
Speaker 2Now it's all coming to an end .
Speaker 3Yeah they know shit quicker , quicker when it gets there , but nah , it's just , it's just , it's gonna be a hell of a year . I'm excited about it . You know I'm looking forward to the , the set . I mean I've never set a world fee to ask before they had us hired . They had had us hired for the Jor Mississippi one and then Kobe took care of that one , so it was a world fee task . Y'all can come , but you ain't gonna be here , but yeah , so we didn't get to set and that's like so you know I just kind of try to knock off all the stuff of setting .
Speaker 3You know the majors and I Look forward to setting up their Pete Moy is gonna be go , that's the other thing is a Friday or Saturday night . I'm cooking the shrimp oil too , so I Don't . I don't know . You got some of that . You got into that . Did you get any of that up there at North Central ?
Speaker 2Prop . If it's food , I probably did .
Speaker 3Yeah me me barge Me bars the bed . We all made the , we all made the shrimp and . But we're gonna do . I'm gonna do the same thing . I bought a . I bought a six foot long crawfish boiler , so I don't have to have two of them now . I won't come up . I won't cook that one night . So that'd be good , that'd be good . Put plenty of butter on the . I said that's the thing is , every everybody was watching this cook it . They were gonna do with all that butter . I'm like Dropping top of them hot shrimp and put a bunch of season on it . You know , you know . So watch them . And some of them , boys , go through that line three times . Apparently , whatever part of the world they were from , they they didn't have shrimp and I had one guy get mad because he didn't get enough and he was complaining about that .
Speaker 3I'm private messaging them . I said hey , man . I said , by the way , sir . I said um , I . I said I'm sorry , I hear you were upset because you didn't get enough shrimp . I said you understand that we donated that thousand bucks worth of food because we just wanted everybody to have a good time . I said , once again , I apologize , but somebody's always going to be upset , no matter what you do . You know They'll cry either the little bitch , if you hung him with a new rope . You know , I mean just just how it is . But now we're gonna do that . It's gonna be a good time , other than that man . Same old , same old . It's just bipolar weather . Back here in the Midwest it was negative 10 one week and now it's it was 60 degrees today .
Speaker 2So wow , that's crazy .
Speaker 3Whatever man , it is what it is . I got a few people shoot . What about all these prices ? Like ? So what you talking about , what the year is going to be ? What do you think year's gonna be ?
Speaker 2I don't know , I mean everything's higher son . I'm telling you I don't know what , I don't know what's gonna go on . You know , I'll talk to you .
Speaker 2Know , steve , see Tom see yeah , I've talked to him all the time , or , you know , through text message or whatever we have , and we're always sending back and forth . You know , you know . What do you think this is gonna do ? What do you think that's gonna do ? And he sent me one last night about When's a good time to buy a car . You know what . You know what's gonna happen to the car industry .
Speaker 2Well , I don't know Hell , I don't . I mean , if I knew I'd be , I'd be a millionaire . You know what I mean . But right , right , it's , it's . I quit , but I don't know , I don't know what's gonna happen .
Speaker 3I mean , you know , shells are higher targets just went up $2.20 Hotel rooms crazy . You know . We're looking at air , like talking about Africa , we're looking at airfare . Um , you know , we're over 2,000 bucks a ticket . Yeah you know I'm gonna book as quick as that because you know things are gonna go high . I mean , our game , for the most part , is dominated . I don't know what the average age is , I used to know , but you know we have a lot of guys that are retired .
Speaker 3Yeah and they're on a fixed income and with inflation , if everything's gone up 15 percent , you know , on the necessities they've got 15 less to spend . So that's gotta hurt our game and we can see it at our club . I mean , we we've lost our competition . She a lot of competition . She hears the guys want to work at it , but you know , you know our registered numbers were up , our daily traffic's down . You know the these guys aren't , you know . I mean , like I said , if you're , if you got x number of dollars and you didn't get a 15% Cost of living increase , you got less money to shoot .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's right you know .
Speaker 3I mean how much longer I think you and I've talked about this before . You know I've run inflation calculators on prices from 1920s , the 1950s and 1980s so far , and this is hard to believe . But it's got a google box . You just google that shit yourself . You know the , the shells and the targets haven't kept up with just yearly inflation . We they're cheaper .
Speaker 3Then you know , I think I ran the math on it a while back and it was . You know a box of double a should be 15 or 16 bucks . You know , if you go by what they listed for in 1980 , you know , and then we ran the figures On a . I have an old flyer . This is how long we've been at this shit . I forget what year it's from , maybe it's 32 and there's like a 35 flyer Illinois State shoot right , trap , shoot up in northern Illinois before they move it down south . You know , and I figured those prices and I think it's about the same 15 bucks , 15 or 16 bucks for a box of target loads in those years Is what it should be in today's money .
Cost of Shooting as a Hobby
Speaker 2I've got a flat of shells that says 24 95 on them , the whole flat , yep , I mean .
Speaker 3Yeah , and and just put a , put your inflation calculator on that . I mean I remember buying double a's . Oh , I think I remember buying double a's in the early 90s , in the in the 20s . I remember dad bought like pallets of actives when actives quit and I remember them bragging about getting those actives for like 18 bucks a case , 17 or 18 bucks a case , you know . And then you know average that on inflation calculator nation , and it brings you over what they're selling for now , and I hate to tell that to a guy that loves the game , but I mean everybody ought to try drag racing . Well , I mean , you know , you know , yeah , that's not the same thing . You don't have , you know , 2000 top fuel dragsters at a shoot , either at a drag race either into a mad , you know .
Speaker 3It's all relative , man , but it is a game that you walk out there and you put a shell and it goes out and you ain't getting that back and you're shooting it for a while and you ain't getting that back and you're shooting at pottery . That is x number of dollars and it's gone . I mean , if a guy could actually think that every time you pull the trigger it's costing him two bucks , you know , or three dollars or four dollars , whatever it costs you to go shoot , you know , say it costs you 2500 bucks and you shoot 500 dollars , you know you shoot 500 shells that week or 500 targets that weekend . You just spent five bucks every time you pulled the trigger . Talk about running people away from the game .
Speaker 2Yeah , you wouldn't shoot pieces anymore , would you ?
Speaker 3Right , right , you know you walked out there and you and you realized that every time you fired around it was costing you four bucks or five bucks for your hobby . That weekend You'd start looking at things a little bit different . You're like you know what you know . You know hookers and blow are a lot cheaper than this . You might have a better time too you might have a better time and you'd definitely be thinner . But uh , um , you know , I mean , I'm not talking about the drug addiction , I'm talking about AIDS .
Speaker 3But oh , here we go , here we go , but but yeah , I mean , if you look at it like I said , you know , if you go to a shoot , it's too grand and you shoot , you know , you shoot the main event , pre-limits 300 , shoot , five standouts , 400 targets and you shoot some other . So you're five or six hundred bucks and you spent two grand . You just threw four dollars away every damn time you pulled the trigger , you know . You know , probably there's some guy listening to this podcast right now and he's got his new wife with them and he's all excited about sporting clays . You know , and he's been lying to her for years . You know , no , it's not that much honey , it's really easy . It's about like you're crocheting , you know , or whatever the shit women do . You know ? Um , yeah , I mean , it is .
Speaker 3You know , and people , people talk about , you know , I mean , and since I haven't shot as much , I'm like Well dubbing , I go shoot prairie dogs for , you know , two or three days in Colorado and it's gonna cost me less money than than if I was to go shoot the western regional . You know , I mean , what am I gonna do there ? You know ? I mean , like I said , you know , I'm not , definitely not gonna win it . I'm not gonna go out there and burn targets , like I used to Um and getting a side event trophy to throw with the other ones because I shot well in the prelim . Whatever one , the whatever .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3For me . I'm just talking about me , I'm not talking about anyone just saying for me it's , it's not , it's just not worth it anymore . You know , I love seeing y'all . That's why I keep setting targets , um , why I love seeing some of you but A couple of you . But yeah , I like setting targets , I like seeing everybody . Um , I mean , I I'm tickled to death to cook shrimp for Pete's deal up there , you know , at the world world fee task . That'd be great . I think dub's gonna come up halfway through it or come up for the main . He said he's gonna help . I think we're gonna go fish . Dub likes we , we've been getting into fishing , we've kind of gotten back into fly fishing and stuff like that . It's pretty fun .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know you know , you know , I saw it . Might he'll remember all that morning . We'll shoot in targets , I'm sure . Yeah , he likes it .
Speaker 3Yeah , he , he likes to shoot , but it's like you know , we're still having fun at it . I'm still , you know , I'm not like
Reflections on Shooting and Offense
Speaker 3. You know , like I said , dude Grew up in this game . I always had a warning from my dad , you know . You know , whatever you do , of course he always . He never pushed me hard in the beginning and I'm not doing the same with him , you know , let's get a love for it . You know , um , you know . And then I don't want him burnt out at 18 . You know , I want to go hunting with , I want to go hunting and shooting with my boy . I don't want him to be sick of it by the time he gets to be a grown man .
Speaker 3Yeah you know , you know , and that's kind of where I it's like . You know it's like broccoli and anal sex If you force it on a kid young , they'll never like when they're older . You never heard that one before no . God , you're never forget , that , will you .
Speaker 2Oh my word , we're gonna put a disclaimer on the front of this , one for sure .
Speaker 3Don't let your kids listen to this one the first one .
Speaker 2The first one we did with you a long time ago . Well , I got grief about that one .
Speaker 3Oh my god , I I said that , yeah , that was you remember that ?
Speaker 3was , yeah , oh gosh , yes , I don't , I can't . I think it can hardly remember the guy's name . He got all , he got really upset about it . I'm thinking , son , I mean yeah , I mean it is what it is . I mean I mean , yeah , I just how I am and I can't help it and I'll do anything for you if I like you , um , but , but I'm gonna , I'm yeah , I'm just not , I'm not , yeah , I'm not fit for it , because it's like my buddy , ben Ben Schumager . He's always , he's always like , he's like can't talk with you .
Speaker 3I'm around people right now . Or Gary , I'm on speaker . These are the people in the car Watch what you say , never mind , I'm just letting you know . The favorite one is Gary , I can't talk to you , I'm around regular people or some shit like that . But , um , I just people get people , people , People get upset about things and I think they want to be upset . You know , I think they like it . There's something , must be some kind of Chemical release in the brain that these people I mean this everybody's offended anymore . And I think the way people get offended , because it's another way of them getting attention . Apparently they gave them too much attention as kid , or not enough . But when these people get offended , they find something wrong that I did . It brings it about them Well .
Speaker 3I don't like this Well , I don't give a shit . You know you're offended me , I don't care , you know you know , why do I give ?
Speaker 2a shit you get , worse the older you get .
Speaker 3You do , don't you ? You just really , you start realizing a man can't afford too many friends and you just have no talk . What makes a difference ? You know , like said . You know if , if , if people knew what was said behind their backs , there'd be a lot less smiling going on in this world . You know , and you know I just don't want to deal with the bullshit . You know , like I said , if you can't handle me , I'm fine with it . You know , I mean I'm not . You know , I mean Jesus lord the kid's got a damn idiot phone right there in his hand .
Speaker 3And what we say on this podcast , oh , that's horrible . You know you got some horror tick talking , doing a dance , getting instagram snaps . You know kids probably watching . You know , subscribe to three , three or four , five hundred , those live instagram models . But you know people are hypocrites . Bullshit , I'm done , I'm over it . You know I'm over it . You know I'm just not playing the game anymore . You know it's like the king pecker will do everything , will do everything and anything for you Until you lack like an asshole , and then you ain't coming back .
Speaker 3Yeah you know , and that's kind of where I'm at the taco bar .
Speaker 3The taco bar . Yeah , that was still fun in hell . My mom , jesus lord , that was funny . I mean , I'm never that little woman . You know she's out there cooking . God bless her , bless her heart . You know she's gone now , but but she , uh , she'd come down there . She cooked , she cooked chocolate chip cookies . She cut brownies up for them bastards . You know , she , she , you know she'd do everything she can . And the old guy told her the taco bar was laid out inefficiently and she , she was so mad I should be mom , what's wrong ? What's wrong ? Never mind , mom , what's wrong ? I said , god damn it , karen , what's wrong ? That motherfucker ? I , my ass , I'll still remember that she was madder in hell , man , she was sitting there just glowing , but but it's just funny . You know , we , just , like I said , we just , you know , don't need this to make a living .
Speaker 3You know hell . I got a working on a solar project right now , but we got funny other things that that actually make money that we deal with . But you know we do this shoot , we love shooters , we love shooting , we love the . For the most part , normally they're like-minded people and that's why we went to 125 shooters at the koonpacker Is because it's a manageable number for us . You know we can handle that and I think for the most part it's . This is going into its fifth year . I think fifth year and it works well for us Because we don't have a huge staff . It's me , ben barge , romberg , the two boys you know we can kind of , and then the kids that got help us in the summer . We can kind of get it done . It's a fun party . I still you still need to show up , man .
Speaker 2I know I think about it every time I see it .
Speaker 3It's , it's fun . I mean , you know , like I said , everybody loves , I mean everybody . You know I haven't ever had anybody . You know , I said I had one guy mad and he called me up . He called me up the day after the day the shoe clothes . He was upset because we didn't have a trophy , which we never . We've always said we've been anti trophies . We give one out for the high overalls and we give something for the all around . You know , I mean I take that money and I put it back in the sunday breakfast and the . You know the , the big dinner we do on Saturday night with the band and the bar and the beer and the in the brats , and then we do the cocktail hour Friday and I , you know , I said the shoot breaks even it's a wash by the time . You figure out you know all the other shit . And I said I had one guy call me up in a complaint and I'm like that's sorry , you know , and just don't come back . You know that's all I can do for you .
Speaker 3Um , you know , and , like I said , it's it sucks that we didn't fulfill . You know we didn't fill his expectations , but it just how it is . You know we throw good targets . I think we throw good targets , Um , you know , we try to put as much effort into it and , like I said , the band , the band this year . Like I said , keep rotating bands and keep serving food and keep serving biscuits and gravy on sunday . I'd rather have that trophies .
Speaker 2Well , and that's the shame of it .
Speaker 3I mean I wish , I wish it was . You know , I said you ought to send brett's . I mean , obviously we're not even a real club but guys like Anthony and Brett and all those , you know , they've got barns Full of bullshit that nobody picked up . We just don't pick it up and it doesn't matter how nice it is , they don't pick it up . And then you'll get a call from them Two or three years later hey man , do you got my d-class out of state , whatever ?
Speaker 3And I'm like , uh , I don't know . Well , can you send it to me ? No , you know , I'm gonna go to attend . You know , um , I'm not . Guys come to three , four years later looking for a trophy . Wow . And I'm just like , why , why didn't you get it when you were here ? And I've actually seen guys take the sticker off the trophy that you put , put postage note or you put the whatever , take it , throw it in the trash . Can throw the sticker in the trash , can ? They didn't want it . Which is cool , man , that's fine . It's just it's a lot of money to waste , you know , because they're not cool . There's very few , you know . You get a few cool trophies . You know , some belt buckles are cool , you know , but we don't get belt buckles anymore .
Speaker 2I can't wear a big belt buckle . I feel like it's cutting me in half .
Speaker 3Yeah , but me and I it's like a girdle man . Maybe it makes you look good , you know , Hold it in , Hold it in son and it's the second form of ID . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2That's right .
Speaker 3I need two forms of ID . Here's my driver's license , there's my belt buckle . Oh shit , whatever man , it is what it is .
Speaker 3But that's all I can tell you , man , I ain't been doing much other than that , just kind of , you know . I think I'm saying I got some . I got some shooting to do in Florida , but I won't be making the the clays deal , but but it'll be good to get out of here for a minute . You know , whatever , like I said , dub and I are dubbing or hit a few , and I see everybody to few , like I said , be setting a few , and you know .
Speaker 3I think they got Richard Foulds lined up for a Brett's too , which would be great . Yeah , you know that'll be great . Richard would be good , and I mean God damn it . Northbrooks , northbrooks , pretty damn good place .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , it's hard , it can be hard .
Speaker 3It's yeah , I mean it's . It's , of course it's about managing expectations . You know after how many times around the sun people's been shooting there . I think people realize there's going to be a little bit degree of difficulty to it . It's not going to be over the top , but it's going to be . It's going to be stronger than most .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3You know , I mean , then that's , I think , once everybody's accepted that they're not coming that anymore , Like what do you mean ? You know , like what do you mean that targets at 35 , 40 yards ? You know , well , it's just . You know , it's just , it's just . Yeah , managing expectations has been good and then and then they should be used to it by now . If you come there and you get surprised by the difficulty , guess what ? You're either a new shooter or you ain't been paying attention .
Speaker 2Yeah or it's your first time . Yeah , it's your first time , and you ain't listening to this podcast .
Speaker 3Yeah , you ain't listening to this podcast or anything else out there , but but you know , average guy , anymore , like I said , we keep going back to this class thing . You know they're not competitive , they're not , they don't want to compete , they want to have a title and and they don't want they . You know , I said then then , then it all snowballs from there is . Like you know , we've asked this question on the , on the , on the , on the Facebooks . You know , would you , whether lose with a 94 or win with a 70 , 72 or a competitor , as in , this is a competition hobby , a competition sport , is there to win , no matter what . They want to win with whatever score .
Speaker 3A guy that is just recreationally shooting , he wants to shoot a score to make him feel good , and there's , we get this shit all the time . You know , these guys who've got a CCR of 0.6 , well , they shoot an 89 or 91 . They feel good about themselves . Guess what , dude , you still lost . That's where that CCR don't want , that's where the CCR doesn't lie . Yeah , you know you can shoot a 96 , but if 96 was the bottom half of the thing , your CCR still the bottom half of the thing , you still didn't win . Because in essence , not in essence . In reality , this is a competition game . This is competition , sport , competition , hobby , whatever you're going to call it , it's what it is . We keep score for a reason .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3So so get off this attitude of you want to shoot a specific score to make you feel good , while you got a certain letter by your name that makes you feel good . What should make you feel good besides the experience of having fun ? If you're there for there , if you're just there for the camaraderie of your fellow fellow shooters , then your class is irrelevant and your scores are relevant . So you ? So you can't have it both ways ? You can't say I'm just there to have fun . Well then , they just have fun .
Speaker 3You know if you , you know . But if it's , if it's about your level of performance , truthfully , your level of performance isn't relevant to your class . If you're using your class , just you know . If you're suck and you shoot a 65 and master consistently , that's embarrassing . That's more embarrassing than than shooting a 65 and C class . You get what I'm saying . We know what your score is . We can see your name in the bottom of the page , you know . I mean Bob Maples picked up a very .
Speaker 3He was in here today and he's an old trap shooter , he's a good friend of ours and he's a hell of a shot . And he , he , he said you're not going to stay in master or AA forever . He goes , you're going to get older and you're going to . You know you're going to go down in class . It's still has you still the main thing , he said , the main thing that matters is how are you competitive within your class and how are you competitive in your age group . And he pointed out that the guys that are on the senior super team or whatever , he said that none of those guys were masters like Ron Schaefer and all of them are in AA . That just proves his point . You know , eventually you're going to go down in class , but you're still competitive
Accepting the Reality of Competition
Speaker 3. You know , once you enter the concurrent shit , you know you're not running with the other people .
Speaker 3You know you know , age has got you , the syphilis has finally got you . Your eyes are failing . Whatever , you're eventually going to go down and I don't understand where this being human nature or whatever you got to accept it . You know you got to accept that you're not staying in master all the time . You know , like I said , you can't have it both ways . If it's just for the fun of your friends , you shouldn't give a shit about class . If you're there to be competitive , you competitive means just what it says .
Speaker 3Yeah you got to be competitive . And if you're not competitive and master , then the law of averages and statistics and the system they got set up will finally get you in a class where you're halfway competitive and when you're either super competitive in that class , you'll either be moved up and if you get worse , you'll get moved down . That's how it works .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3You know , whatever it is , what it is , you know .
Speaker 1I can't .
Speaker 3You can't change people . All you can do is judge them and troll them on Facebook .
Speaker 2So you're good at that , that's for sure . Damn right , I am .
Speaker 3Damn right I am . I am good , I'm good at infuriating people , that's right . You know I'll do anything for you , you know . But , like I said , if you're in a like say that guy said you're never helpful and I'm like dude , I'm really not helpful . On dumb questions , there are certain things as dumb questions . Yeah yeah , I'm sorry . I'm sorry , I don't know what your kindergarten teacher told you , you know . You know your mom , her mom , told you were special , but you never could figure out who Ed was . And there's a lot of them out there .
Speaker 3That's funny so not anyway , but that's all I tell you , Parker .
Speaker 2All right , well , holla at me .
