Culinary Care: Revolutionizing Mental Health and Culture in the Kitchen with Jasmin from CHOW

Navigating the high-stakes environment of the culinary world, we often forget to look beyond the sizzle of the skillet to the wellbeing of those who wield it. On the latest episode of Chef Sense, we're joined by Jasmin from CHOW, who illuminates the stark reality of mental health in the food and beverage industry. From the shadow of depression to the struggle against addiction, we discuss the urgency of peer support and the pivotal role of tailored resources for our kin behind the kitchen doors.
The conversation turns to the impact of our kitchen culture, not just on us chefs but also on our families. We dissect the transformative potential of leadership that fosters respect and empathy, and how this cultural shift can spearhead a cycle of rejuvenation in the workplace.

We wrap things up with practical steps toward a brighter horizon for hospitality professionals. CHOW's toolkit for workplace wellness and the heartening stories of positive change from our listeners remind us that recognition and understanding can lead to a revolutionized kitchen culture.

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Transcript

Chef James: 0:14

Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense. I'm your host, chef Massey. We have CHOW coming on. I just wanted to do a brief introduction for them. Their acronym stands for Culinary Hospitality, outreach and Wellness.

Chef James: 0:28

They are a very special nonprofit organization that provides an outreach for all of us in the food and beverage industry. You'll hear Jasmine talk about that, but I want to go over some numbers that they actually display in their research 63% of food and beverage hospitality professionals suffer from depression. 84% of food and beverage and hospitality workers feel stress from their jobs, 65% of food and beverage hospitality workers report using substances while at work and 53% of food and beverage hospitality workers feel they've been pushed to their breaking point. And so, yes, those are very tough numbers that we just listen to. But the great thing is that there are organizations like CHOW. They are built for us. Because they're built by people that are us, we can take advantage of these opportunities to go.

Chef James: 1:28

You know what? I'm not in a good place, I need a minute, I need to evaluate some things, and how do I go about doing that? Again, we've all been a part of this industry where you're dealing with outside life and the stressors and all of that, not to mention a career path that expects perfection at every turn. So today we have places like this, people like this that are there to help us work on these things for a better and brighter and more longevity in the industry, and I think it's very important that we use tools like this. Love you guys. Let's roll into the episode. Today we have Jasmin from CHOW, so excited to have you on. Thank you.

Jasmin: 2:15

Thank you for having me. We are so excited to be able to participate. These opportunities are invaluable to our organization and I really appreciate it. If you could go into.

Chef James: 2:26

You know how CHOW started and how this kind of came for fruition. It's really amazing story.

Jasmin: 2:30

Yes, thank you. A few years ago I think we're selling liberating. We're coming up on our fifth birthday Essentially our founder, john Hinman, who is a business owner, pie maker extraordinaire. He was very active in the food beverage hospitality community and once he embarked on his recovery journey and returned to the food beverage hospitality industry, having amassed a lot of skills, tools and resources, you know, to assist him on his recovery journey, he then returned to the industry and found a lot of what he had felt before he left. So he had this idea to gather everybody to talk about where it hurts. That was his initial idea. The hurt we can't see, how do we address it? How do we learn to have conversations centered around it?

Jasmin: 3:20

And, as it happens, we lost Anthony Bourdain a couple of days after this meeting was scheduled, and so what could have been just a couple of people getting together in his bakery and talking really ended up being a whole lot of people showing up and talking about what was hurting them, what their successes and struggles were.

Jasmin: 3:39

And that was essentially the first CHOW meeting. And then, slowly, folks like myself and Aaron Boyle, chow's CEO, we just kind of started as attendees who then wanted to start our own chapters of CHOW so that we could bring CHOW to other areas of Colorado and CHOW started having, you know, chow, colorado Springs, chow, steamboat Springs, chow Vale, and we were incredibly fortunate, through the pandemic, to be able to switch to an online slash hybrid model. So current yeah, all of our meetings happen in person in Colorado. We are currently expanding outside of Colorado, but they are accessible and available from anywhere in the world. So folks have been joining us from literally anywhere in the world in our Zoom rooms and we've also expanded to education, which is available, online resource brokering, and we pride ourselves on being a listening organization. So the more needs come up within the food, beverage and hospitality community that we are made aware of, the more we develop programming to meet those needs.

Chef James: 4:48

Okay and that's just amazing. You know, looking at the process and, like you had said, you know people coming in and zooming in and being a part of those meetings. You know I have done that and in that process, you know, working through my career path, recognizing how important mental health really is in you know the industry and really how much it has been really swept under the rug in many different aspects and so many of them and I guess for me I go. You know I've been in the food beverage industry over 30 years, 22 years in executive chef. So I guess in a sense for many of us it's it kind of raises you up. The industry is raises you.

Chef James: 5:32

You're going along in that process with leadership and the stress of what we deal with and you know you're also as a human being, right, like you're learning yourself as a person, you know, not just an employee in the industry, but then if you step into leadership you're going right into that and you're growing too. So you guys are so special because I think this opportunity today where someone can go into those meetings, you know, and we're going to those key speaker meetings, which are just great, it does remind me a lot of a 12 step program of how those rooms operate.

Jasmin: 6:08

So yeah, we started off. You know, the question that we used to get so much when we first started is is this a for chefs? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, right, yes, there's definitely we pride ourselves on. You know, chow is here because we call it. CHOW is us helping us.

Jasmin: 6:28

This based on the idea that, you know, currently studies show us that the food beverage hospitality industry is growing at immense rates, so that currently, if every clinical certified mental health provider were to fill their docket completely with hospitality workers, we would still outnumber them 29 times over. Wow, yeah, that is a staggering statistic. So we think, now that you know, not only do we not have basic foundational access to mental health care, right, most folks work in the industry, are underinsured, marginalized and often not earning enough to pay for therapy out of pocket. And so we've figured out that the peer support model, right, having a person in the room who is mediating the conversation. And here's, I think, where we differ a little bit in, where we diverge a little from that 12 step model.

Jasmin: 7:19

Our rooms are moderated by someone called an expose, right, it's a term we're familiar with who just kind of facilitates the conversation between the attendees and the general temperature of the room.

Jasmin: 7:30

So we start off by doing a temperature take, because we are industry folks, so we often have more words for food than we have for our feelings. We check in on a scale of rare to well done. Rare meaning juicy, full of life. Well done meaning I've been on the grill for far too long. Take me off, I'm tapping out, and this expose what they're doing is based on the temperature shares in the room. They're finding a common thread of conversation to bring the conversation forward and everybody walks away with the takeaway. So it's met with skills, resources, a person that's going to check up on your temperature the week after. So there's this idea that, even though we are not clinical mental health providers that armed with the same resources and the same systems of support, that we can essentially build a sustainable workforce from the ground up where everybody has equal resources, versus this kind of outdated hierarchical model that the industry has been functioning on for so long, where we have the kind of managers, owners and operators perintified up here.

Jasmin: 8:35

And they are largely responsible for the employee and there's such a big discrepancy with that right.

Chef James: 8:41

Right, wow, that's amazing. How are you feeling like, in a sense, feedback, as this is building? I mean it's doing very well.

Jasmin: 8:49

It is. We're growing immensely. We are incredibly grateful for most of us. Aaron and I have been there just about since the beginning and it has been a huge labor of love for us. We currently have folks who are still in the industry, but Aaron and I are industry veterans. I'll speak to myself personally. I got involved with CHOW because I worked through half of the pandemic and my career generally used to fluctuate, in the sense that when I was doing the best career-wise, it's when my mental health was often doing the worst. You know, I kind of I was a product of the great resignation and I kind of had to look at myself and see, you know, it doesn't get much higher than this. So I'm an executive chef, I'm head of food and beverage, of the whole food and beverage department, and I'm just not doing well and odds are that in you.

Jasmin: 9:41

Unless I figure out what it is that makes it so that when I'm working, when my career is just off the charts, that I'm struggling so much personally, then I won't be able to stay in the industry, and so a lot of what we do is centered around the idea that we don't want folks to leave the industry we want folks to do what they're passionate about and continue to live well and to be able to show up to work as whole-supported human beings. So it's for sure a labor of love for us.

Chef James: 10:09

Oh, absolutely, I mean it's. That's just remarkable, you know, and I think looking at it it's so interesting because I kind of came up in that model which you know, I know you're aware of. Is that the old school tough love, or like you never really shared your feelings, like if you said you couldn't handle something. That just wasn't acceptable. You know, and there's just so many challenges that we deal with in our industry that you know men and women deal with Women most definitely. You know, for me coming up too with the glass ceiling and some of these challenges.

Chef James: 10:45

So there's a lot to talk about in our industry and I really love our people and we're so diversified in just this huge melting pot of culture and everything. It's pretty special. So to be able to work this, you know this process and take care of yourself, it's, I think for some of us it can be kind of uncomfortable in the beginning, you know. So how has that been? And you know some of us kind of being okay with sitting where we are and those thoughts and emotions, that we're just kind of understanding that and working the process.

Jasmin: 11:21

Yeah, I that's an excellent question. I'm I like to characterize as myself. I like to characterize myself as a person who is in long term emotional recovery. I left the industry three years ago and I am still a person who attends two child support groups a week and I go to therapy weekly and I do this so that I can learn how to be a human being in a way that I never knew before. I'm a third generation chef. My father was a chef who parented oh that's awesome, yeah, like he chef. And so that that kind of like dysfunction of the food and beverage hospitality industry the offbeat hours, you know, the very the, the loud directions, rapid fire directions shouted at you that kind of dysfunction and chaos was very familiar and very comfortable for me, sure, I would imagine.

Jasmin: 12:13

Yeah, and then leaving the the quiet and trying to integrate into you know, civilian life.

Chef James: 12:20

Right right.

Jasmin: 12:22

It was impossible and, if you think about it, many of the systems that we are molded after right Like the military. When folks leave the military, it will be the time, and whether these systems work or not is a completely different conversation. But there are systems to check on people to make sure that they can re reintegrate into society, because they recognize that they have largely been living marginalized for years. Sure, our industry is modeled after the military brigade system, but when you stop being a chef, when you start working hospitality, the hospitality industry spits you back out with your opposing work hours and your disordered eating habits.

Jasmin: 13:00

And or you know, propensity for loudness. It spits you back out. It's cool, Pick yourself up and you know, go do something else. I found that to be incredibly alienating. I struggled so much in my and I have a bachelor's in marketing, so I had something to fall on.

Jasmin: 13:17

But my wife never made that connection. I said you know, I've been. I've been working in kitchen since I was 18 years old. I've never been anything else. I will never be anything else. Where do I come from here? And at CHOW, which is that we need vocationally specific resources. We have vocationally specific challenges.

Jasmin: 13:39

I started going to therapy right after I left the industry, because I knew I wasn't going to be able to integrate on my own, and oftentimes the things that I was just explaining to my therapist were things that they just couldn't get on board behind. You know.

Chef James: 13:53

Right.

Jasmin: 13:54

It's difficult to talk to a mental health professional even when I was in the industry and say you know, I am burnt out and I can't go to work tomorrow and explain to them you know how compulsive that need feels to have to go to work tomorrow Because we're understaffed. I can't sit this out.

Chef James: 14:10

I'm a leader If I sit in it Right.

Jasmin: 14:12

But will the rest of my staff do? Because to them it was just like set a boundary and meet that boundary, and I was like you don't understand how it works in the industry. There is no boundary I'm expected to show up Right.

Jasmin: 14:24

So it wasn't until I went into a CHOW room. You know very different of how the system would work, because I was a little bit you know just a little cautious with therapy. I didn't feel very understood. And then I walked into a Chao room and everybody is talking about the same things that I'm feeling Right. Here are my struggles, here are my successes. And I was like, well, dang me too.

Chef James: 14:45

Oh right, that's. Amazing.

Jasmin: 14:47

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was a game changer for me, and you know also the reframe for us that we like to do this reframe. Self-care is a very marked term nowadays.

Chef James: 14:57

Yeah.

Jasmin: 14:58

For folks like us, industry folks. We hear self-care and we think you know bath bombs and days off and like that we reframe that term and we say it's actually self-service and you already know service, yes, service, you know like the back of your hand. So really let's reframe that idea. Take the bath bomb out and let's look at self-service like what can Tuesday Jasmine do to set up Thursday Jasmine In the smallest possible way? Can I take those 10 cans of Red Bulls that I drink on the line and turn them in to eat and then have a bottle of water at can number four.

Jasmin: 15:33

Because that's a win, that's absolutely a win.

Chef James: 15:35

Yeah, yeah, wow. Well, I think what's really cool is that you guys have structured this so that you're speaking our lingo, because you come from us, you know, and to hear that you go okay, it's a very co-dependent relationship that you have with your team and your environment and to be able to take what you're sharing and going okay. These check valves are very important for yourself, which we just steamrolled over, and they end up going into maladaptive behaviors, you know, and can oftentimes lead to addiction. And that's a tough thing is. You know there's many people that are in it and in that addiction, or there's some that you know I've buried, unfortunately, over the years, and it just, you know, those sorts of things kind of resonate with you.

Chef James: 16:25

You know, like you're saying, I mean it's in your DNA and you know whether it's multi-generational colonnarians that you're a part of in your DNA to being raised by an industry of beautiful misfits that it becomes the new you and you know I often say it's called disruding. How do I get out of that rut? And that's where, for me, you know, like you said, I, you know, I've been in those rooms and those rooms are so special. It's a spiritual experience with people, with all of us in there and because you've, you know, again you're going back to the militaristic concept of a kitchen. You know we are battle seasoned. I mean, many of us work so hard for that one shot to get into the next level and we haven't fully seasoned, you know, as a leader, and we step right into it and it's just, you know, you're inundated. I mean you're learning by fire constantly. So, yeah, I totally get it. It's amazing, these you know being able to share with people. So yeah, for sure.

Jasmin: 17:35

Yeah, that's definitely. I like to call myself the chow poster child for success, because it was definitely a big part of why I'm so passionate about the work that we do is because it largely worked on me. It gave me a sense of community at a point in my life where I'd never felt more marginalized. The camaraderie we don't talk often about, this band of misfit toys. Essentially, we say we're a family for a reason, by ignoring the typical red flags that come when we characterize something as a family. That means that it comes with an inherent kind of dysfunctional value system and all of that. But I felt when I first left that I was never going to experience camaraderie like that again. And I know now that that's not true. There's something on the side of that. But that feeling for the first couple of months left me bereft. I was like this part of my personality is just never going to feel nurture like it did and, to be honest, I think I'm one of the.

Jasmin: 18:37

I've had to do a lot of amends since leaving the industry. I was mentored with a lot of violence and abuse. Yeah, I started cooking. Yeah, and I was a very I was a very big participant in that as well, I think, being in the United States where there's a lot more monitoring and HR departments probably from being as harmful as I could have been, but I had to make a lot of amends and sit with that the idea it's true that I didn't know better, so I couldn't do better, but also that I hold a lot of responsibility in really propagating these harmful stereotypes of what leadership looks like in the back of the house, of the kitchen, and that's a really difficult thing to sit with if you don't have people to hold it with you. So the ability to say that in a room I have been a damaging leader, I have done damage to the folks that I worked with and can anybody relate to that and being able to extend that vulnerability to myself and to not be met with judgment because so many understand it.

Jasmin: 19:45

That was exceptional Instruments, my growth and healing process.

Chef James: 19:51

And that's amazing. Going back to our foundation, even though we came up a bit differently, what do you find attracted you into this caravan?

Jasmin: 20:04

Yeah, that's a good question.

Jasmin: 20:06

I've been thinking about that for years and I think in my case it was kind of inevitable.

Jasmin: 20:10

I do think that when one of your parents works in the hospitality industry and we don't talk about this enough because we talk about children, for example, that come from a military family, right, they have an entire awareness month dedicated to them for their resilience and the things that we recognize that military children have to go without in order to have a parent in the military, and I'm not likening those two experiences my husband's in the military so I know I understand the extent to which my own children suffer at long term separation. But as a child who was raised by a chef and business owner, there was no holidays at home. It was largely like holidays hosted at the restaurant, where the family is sitting at one of the tables and everyone else is being served and there's a dattle. Come out of the kitchen for a couple of minutes to blow out your birthday candles, but we're largely just having dinner at the restaurant because that's the only way you can get them to interact.

Jasmin: 21:09

So to me there was a lot of normality very early on. It was like take a couple of shifts and help us out with the register, take a couple of serving shifts and help us out with this. I'm incredibly grateful for the work ethic that it instilled in me that I started very, very early, that I was able to pursue a four year bachelor's degree while at the same time working full time in a kitchen. So it felt inevitable because it felt incredibly comfortable and familiar. I knew I could see that that sense of relief when service was over for my dad and that after shift, drink and the cold of the restaurants and it seemed incredibly attractive to me.

Jasmin: 21:51

I also came up in the generation of idolizing the Marco Pierre White and the Anthony Bourdain of the world and I didn't see myself represented in that industry right, because I still think to this day we do not have a female equivalent of Anthony Bourdain. But no, and teenage me was enamored with these men behind the line. It was just like I'm gonna make yeah, Wow.

Chef James: 22:15

And the thing is too, I think, going into it, looking at the other, as we're talking about generations, seeing how our industry has shifted food, TV and social media has really glamorized many years of the industry and sucked people in, and today I think there's more of this understanding of mental health and space and boundaries. So when you have the next generation is coming in and going, well, yeah, I'll pick up and do this and that, but I need to. I have an outside life or I have these things going on and we never did that. So maybe at one point I've got to like I'm a little jealous, you know, but at the same time, it's great that we are taking that notice and we're going wait a minute, no, we do need to change this. I mean, how do you?

Chef James: 23:15

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Jasmin: 23:54

I love it. To be honest with you, I have a nine year old daughter who, up until recently, wanted to be a chef, just like mama, and that used to terrify me when she used to say and, and now you know, the last time she said it a few months ago, I can kind of like temperature check the things that I'm, that I'm seeing and I'm like this is that's what I'm doing. I want, I want to play an instrumental role in building the industry that I deserved and so many of us deserved, Because there are so many passionate people that love food and love hospitality and they deserve to be met with resources and support and encouragement to be able to live their life well. And you know, we often hear this we're we're lucky enough to be able to participate in listening tours where we'll be able to organize, you know, different geographical locations. We get business owners, managers and operators in a room together and we say you know what's working, what's not? Tell us what you think. And we conduct surveys with their staff to see how those answers and questions kind of stack up against each other.

Jasmin: 25:01

And Aaron and I were recently in a room where where somebody said you know, I've been in this industry for 37 years. And now these younger kids are coming in and they're this is their first job and they're talking to me about the shifts that I can handle and shifts that I can't handle. And I've been working 16 hours on my feet 37 years, yeah, and you know, we kind of sat with it for a moment because that's fair, that's legitimate.

Jasmin: 25:25

You know there's a lot of so many of us accepted mistreatment as as a regular price to pay for our love of food and the love of art. And and then I said to him Thank you for your service. That must have been so difficult, how exceptional that you get to play an instrumental role in paving the way for what a healthier workforce looks like. And he was genuinely emotional.

Chef James: 25:54

Oh, I can only imagine.

Jasmin: 25:56

Yeah, and it's like we talk often when we talk about the new workforce, about the dinosaurs that won't let go. But the truth is that so many of us are tired and want to stay in the industry longer and would have meant to stay in the industry longer. So largely no one's mad about the industry becoming healthier. It's just so difficult to see the industry be so different, right, Right or pushing a boundary and it's a painful thing, because I hear about young folks and their practices and their boundaries all the time and I think, gosh, if I had known that, if I had pushed that, I might have stayed longer, it might not have been over. So soon.

Jasmin: 26:38

That's a hard thing to say.

Chef James: 26:39

Yeah, well, it is.

Chef James: 26:41

But it's also a great point that some relationships for some people or some experiences in life I mean, maybe we would have taken a vacation more often, my gosh, you know.

Chef James: 26:54

And in that you have another level of experience for yourself, you know, with that self-care, but you totally bypass all of that. You know, I do wish and I do hope for the industry. I know we're all the young ones are so eager and everything I just get concerned about, and that's just been a struggle of making sure that we kind of earn our way too with wisdom. I should say, you know, not relentless craziness that we dealt with or that we're trying to work out of today, but just that opportunity to slow it down and earn that wisdom in the industry so that you're battle ready. And I guess you know the other flip side to that is well, you're also paying for culinary school. A number of them, you know I did not go to culinary school, I went to the school of hard knocks, but many of them are, you know. They come out, they've got to be driven, they've got to pay that school back, they've got, you know, and they push themselves really hard to jump right into something you know.

Jasmin: 27:57

So anyways, this is, yeah, you're absolutely true. And look at how the media is shifting alongside that. I love that you mentioned that as well because, you know, probably on the tail end of when I was already in the industry, now was the time where we started to cook a little bit, to focus a little bit on cooking personalities, and you know the Gordon, the Anthony Bourdain and Marco Pierre White model that trickled into the Gordon Ramsay model. Just always we've had just such a mainstream understanding of glorifying these practices that to us were damaging, harmful, harmful, difficult, but that they really made it look like attractive on the outside, kind of a rock-dye mentality. And you know we're participating. Currently we've put together a petition for I don't know if you're a fan of the bear, I'm a huge fan of yours.

Chef James: 28:48

Yes, of course, yep.

Jasmin: 28:50

Yeah, it's been one of my favorite things to watch. In fact, watching episodes of the bear probably does as much work for me as going to therapy does.

Chef James: 28:59

Okay, oh yeah, I'm jealous. I have to get a brown paper bag and work on breathing, you know Well, so similar.

Jasmin: 29:06

It's intense.

Chef James: 29:06

It's funny, but yeah.

Jasmin: 29:08

I find myself alternating between being incredibly triggered and activated, to the point where sometimes I have to pause and walk away to the next episode. I am flooded with an intense FOMO. I should have never left. This is what it was about I. This is incredible. Look at this.

Jasmin: 29:28

You know, yeah, love, that I'm in the fluctuation between episodes and we put together a petition asking for the producers, the creators of the show, to be able to add mental health resources at the end of it, because we recognize that these things are these the way that the industry is being portrayed in the media is largely accurate and but it is activating. And so if we're depicting the industry the way that it is currently, the industry, the way that it is currently, also, for the first time in a long time, comes with actual supports for people, and we deserve to have the industry accurately depicted while, at the same time, letting folks know that this might be the industry today. But there's also supports here. There's CHOW and organizations like CHOW that can offer additional support in order to take care of this emotional dysregulation that you might be feeling after this episode or whatever feelings are being dredged up by this depiction of the industry.

Chef James: 30:27

Well, it's very interesting and again, I'm not trying to put the militaristic sort of battle zone concept comparing the two, but I try help. It's kind of tough because there are some likenesses in some levels of you know and I don't know and maybe you've seen it over your time if they've developed an understanding of some level of PTSD. I don't know if that's true or not. Do you know of anything like that?

Jasmin: 30:54

Because we do you know, we talk in our mental health course. We have a four hour mental health course where we talk about mental health challenges and diagnoses, how they show up in the industry, how do we recognize them, how do we make room for them? Right, because you know we recognize that not everybody walks into a kitchen with just their knife roll. People are coming in with preexisting conditions, complex trauma. One of the things that we thought about is, you know, cptsd, and so there's this idea that, like our behavior largely changes based on the way that we experience capital T trauma and little T trauma. So we talk a little bit about you know what is that, what does that mean and what do you walk away from and how do we make room and integrate that into our lives?

Jasmin: 31:40

Similarly, you know disordered eating not to be confused with a needing disorder but I'm a person who I'm three years out of the industry and I still can't eat warm food. I mean, I have not had a largely warm meal since I left the industry. If I'm sitting at a restaurant, I can't sit to the kitchen because I hear tickets coming in. There's no way I'm in a conversation with you and I will sit at a restaurant and I will have a 10 minute conversation, just moving my food around until it cools down, because I haven't eaten a warm meal since I was 17 years old and I'm pretty, you know yeah, yeah.

Jasmin: 32:16

And so these, these things that are, you know, we think are just our insulated experience, but they're really not there. They're pretty typical undertones, that that bind all of us, and we're now starting to have the tools to recognize. Is this PTSD, is this disordered eating, this ADHD, masking, as you know, a person being very efficient?

Chef James: 32:42

What is it?

Jasmin: 32:43

Not a big part of our education being able to these things in yourself and in others, so that we're not using damaging language anymore like oh, don't touch his knife, set he so ADHD about it.

Chef James: 32:55

Oh, yeah, right.

Jasmin: 32:57

You know he's so OCD about his knife rule and you're like, well, that's not really OCD, he just likes to keep his stuff me. And yeah, yeah, right, yeah there are those tags. Yes, absolutely, and so separating.

Jasmin: 33:09

That gives us this kind of ownership because, first of all, long we've been a band of misfits Yep, you know we're already projecting like, oh, don't worry about it, we're just a band of misfits making do Sure. It's the way we want to relate to each other, that we are people whose life experience fits comfortably in other people's life experience in a kitchen setting. That's fine. But you know, this larger representation of you know the hot mess misfits in the kitchen. It also, you know, comes from a scarcity mindset. We deserve to feel safe at work, we deserve to feel represented at work, we deserve to feel heard at work. And as long as we're relating about ourselves and each other in these kind of terms, like it's not so serious, you know we don't. We don't have to look at the hard truth, which is that it is. It is serious, it's our livelihood, it's our passion and and it deserves to be sustainable.

Chef James: 34:01

Oh, absolutely yeah. Yeah, I always say, you know, gaining the wisdom you know between the years to extend the years, yeah Is the goal, you know. You know what I was thinking about. Is you kind of shared about going in and working with? You know, restaurant, tours or businesses, what is that with the that workplace, your child workplace toolkit, wellness toolkit? Can you talk about that? Absolutely yeah.

Jasmin: 34:26

Yeah, this is one of my favorite things that we have done. So a product of our listening tours that I mentioned before, where we do these local think tanks, we get owners, operators and managers together. We ask them what's working and what's not. Where they're struggling, you know, are you? Is your primary concern to being understaffed? Is it the bottom line? Is this coming from? Then we kind of take that temperature, take and compare it to their employees. We give them resources, we send follow ups, so we open up these conversations.

Jasmin: 34:54

Well, in these listening tours, we started hearing you know excellent tips that people were doing that were working really well for their staff on the other end. So we said you know, let's, you know, let's collate this information together and share it. So if you visit our website at chow code dot org, you'll be able to find a free downloadable PDF which is a really hefty stack. It's called the workplace toolkit and it's got tabs on the right hand side that have either a five minute increment, ten minute increment, five dollar, ten dollars. So, based on whatever investment you have of your time or money on any given day, you flip to the page of what you have to invest five minutes or five dollars so that it's self led and it gives you a tip that you can try out with your staff. Today you try that tip out and I don't know if you can get a pre shift temperature check with the staff, which seems super simple, right?

Jasmin: 35:48

Except often if you talk to owners and operators, they say, okay, so I'm going to do a pre shift temp check with the staff. And if I have somebody checking in at a well done like I can't do this, what am I supposed to do? Send them home? I'm under staffed. Well, here's what we can do stagger the scheduled shift differently so that they get, you know, three breaks within the first hour and then they can carry over for the remainder of the shift. Can he switch positions with somebody? Can she step off the line and do prep instead? So we there's actual actionable items of follow through and come up during those things, so that these are temperature checks that are actually feasible and we're not telling you to just try something that wouldn't actually work in this model. And so they go anywhere, ranging from a temperature check to what does it look like to eliminate a shift drink? Take that budget and invest it into something else okay, right.

Jasmin: 36:41

And how do I have these conversations with my staff to find out what it is that they really want, so that I'm not, as a leader, making decisions largely for them and ending up with unsatisfied staff. So it covers the entire thing, coupled with our scripts for difficult conversations.

Chef James: 36:58

Okay, wow.

Jasmin: 37:00

Which is incredible. We've had those vetted by legal professionals and trauma-informed clinicians and same thing. You flip to the page. You know I want to have a conversation with my boss about arrays, or I want to have my a conversation with my staff about how I think they might have shown up drunk on the last shift.

Chef James: 37:20

Okay.

Jasmin: 37:21

The page that you need to go and it gives you all of an actual script that you can follow that keeps you protected legally, that makes you show up with a lot of tenderness and consideration for trauma that a person may, and it guides you through these conversations so that we can use these models, these toolkits, so that we can start having these conversations, so that they become a natural occurrence that you know folks can train other folks on, and then one day we're all just having conversations where we're all seen, heard and represented.

Chef James: 37:52

Wow, well, and that's just amazing. I mean, what a great opportunity to put that into into work. What's your feedback been over that, in the trial of it?

Jasmin: 38:01

I mean we are incredibly excited. We've received a lot of support, especially with the workplace wellness toolkit. We love that we are able to showcase our partners and their practices, because we pride ourselves on being a listening organization and so we don't want to put things into development that aren't necessary or needed. And so you know, when folks get back to us and they say I tried the workplace wellness toolkit, I've been doing the shake, it's working incredible. I managed to see this return of my investment. I have a practice.

Jasmin: 38:33

We love to hear it we love to, yeah, small change, big change. We love that.

Chef James: 38:38

Oh, that's so cool. I'm looking at the website. You know they can go right on there to meetings and take a look at the scheduled meetings. Did I read that? Are there certain days you don't have meetings or there's less meetings during the week?

Jasmin: 38:51

Yes, currently, I think, our Friday Saturday. No, I'm sorry, it's Thursday. Friday, saturday there are no meetings scheduled. These things are always in development, so you know stay tuned, but the majority of our meetings. We have one meeting happening on Monday, we have four on Tuesday, we have two on Wednesday. We have one on Sunday.

Jasmin: 39:11

We have spaces for all women's meetings, all men's meetings. We have an offshoot child leadership meeting every now and then. Okay, there's a pop up. We have a Spanish speaking meeting. Yes, and they're all available online through our website, super accessible.

Chef James: 39:28

And that's awesome. So also looking at other support avenues that you guys do provide I mean you even help people financially on some aspects as well right, we do so we don't do this directly.

Jasmin: 39:41

A big part of our programming is called resource brokering. So what that means is that all CHOW folks, myself included, we are all trained to know the vocationally specific resources to help with the kind of situation that you might be having. So we have often folks that come to us and they say I'm a victim of intimate partner abuse, do you know? And I'm in the industry. Do you know where I can go to get support? We will sit with you while you fill out forms, while you call, while you do a warm handover with someone. Our official motto for this is that you know I'm concerned about the situation, but I'm not.

Jasmin: 40:19

CHOW may not be the organization that has developed programming around how to help, but we are all trained as to how to get you to a warm handover and then check in with you a week later to see how it's doing and then check in with you three weeks later to see that you go out to the right. So we have just about. If you check out our resource page and we encourage folks, you know, take a look at the resources available and if you need additional support, you just fill out a form and we give you a call and we sit on the phone with you and we do the warm handover. All of this is free and it helps with anything you can think of. We've helped folks with financial assistance, domestic violence situations, folks that are trying to leave the industry or go into the industry, resume just about anything that you can think of that folks in the food, beverage, hospitality industry might need support with. We can sit with them and get them to the appropriate place.

Chef James: 41:12

Okay and that's awesome. When you guys are looking like you know sponsors and partnerships. How has that been for you guys? Are you getting the support and things that you needing that and building?

Jasmin: 41:23

Yeah, we've been very fortunate so far. We apply for a lot of grants. We have a lot of wellness sponsors and partners that want to, you know, maybe sponsor a meet and greet in a specific area. We have Connect for Health Colorado, for example, has been instrumental to our growth so far. Kaiser, they'll, you know, say we'll sponsor this part of this event to be able to do this. And we have been incredibly fortunate that, even though we have never sought out the support of the food beverage hospitality industry because we want to raise the barriers to entry, we do not solicit donations or any of that we have had folks who have just rallied to fundraise for us by doing things round up the check and donate to Chow and their POS systems or a cocktail for a cause for Chow and donate, you know, a dollar for each cocktail sold. And we have received incredible fundraising support from one of the avenues that we largely didn't expect, because it's the community that we serve.

Chef James: 42:26

So we've been very fortunate so far for sure, okay, as people are listening, how can they get involved in that aspect? Who do they connect with and?

Jasmin: 42:34

so the cool part about our website is that we have a contact us form that routes to my email, so any questions would arrive directly to me and I make sure that folks are, you know, going to the appropriate place that they need support with. We also have a donate feature on the website. If folks are choosing to donate, we sell merch that largely funnels back in and you know, yeah, a forward facing way of just kind of which is pretty cool.

Jasmin: 43:00

So, and we say, there's no small way to participate in the community and spreading the movement, it's easiest sharing a social media post or assigning a petition, or you know, coming to the mental health course, which is a free course, we charge a $15 placeholder to reserve your spot, which is a return to you.

Jasmin: 43:18

But there are many ways to support the growth of the community that don't necessarily have to be monetary. But we are a nonprofit and so you know the monetary part is a necessary part to keep our programming free of cost for our professionals for sure.

Chef James: 43:32

Well and looking at as it develops, I mean, do you actually see some of these hubs in the future branching further out? I mean that's quite a bit of work to do, but do you see that in the future? We love that work.

Jasmin: 43:45

It is not that we're afraid of. We are currently actually in March. We are rolling out our first announcement about rolling out our first CHOW in DC meeting We'll be moving to, we'll be rather expanding to Washington DC and I'm assuming that very much like it has historically gone with CHOW, once one little step is set into motion for growth, it usually picks up after that.

Chef James: 44:11

Right.

Jasmin: 44:12

Always looking for ways to expand and grow the movement.

Chef James: 44:14

Well, that's a great problem to have Any final words, any words of wisdom.

Jasmin: 44:19

Oh my gosh, Any words of wisdom. Take good care of yourselves, for anyone that's listening, take good care of yourselves. You are so valued and we're so glad that you're here. And, yeah, come join us, let's talk about it. Whatever it is, let's talk about it. I want folks to know. Often the questions that we get Is this just an event fest?

Jasmin: 44:41

Is it A for chefs? First, it's for everyone in the food beverage hospitality industry and adjacent we even have an attendee that has been with us for years who is just an ally. He's just a patron, a guy who largely credits the food beverage hospitality industry and those connections for getting him through the pandemic. When he was able to get take out food and take it back home, those were the only interactions he had. And post pandemic he came to one of our meetings and said I just want to be a better patron and I just want to support you folks.

Jasmin: 45:13

How do I do that? We have students, industry writers, we have vets, industry veterans, we have farmers. We have, we have there are so many folks that are a part of our all inclusive definition of food beverage hospitality and it is an exceptional place to come share about your successes and struggles with folks who fundamentally get it, have either been or need support, because they are there and I cannot speak about the benefits enough and you can turn, you can join us camera on, camera off, with an alias. If that's what feels best, it is not required. But if that's something that you need support with, we can get you to the right place and it's a super welcoming, brave space for anybody in the food, beverage, hospitality industry and adjacent. So come give it a try, is what I would say, is my final words wisdom.

Chef James: 46:06

That's so awesome. I just want to say thank you all for you know your time, jasmin, and what you do, what the group does there. Thank you, yeah, all right, everyone. That is a wrap. You can check us out If you like that. Subscribe Also the Instagram Chef Massey. Let's keep it simple, Chef Massey. com. Have a good one. Bye for now.