Jeffrey Baker: Savoring the Symphony of Hill Rock Estate's Terroir-Driven Whiskey

Unlock the secrets of terroir-driven whiskey as we traverse the verdant paths of Hill Rock Estate Distillers with our gracious hosts Jeffrey Baker, whose fervor for sustainable farming and meticulous spirit crafting will leave you deeply inspired. Their tales are not just of barley and rye but of a lifelong voyage culminating in a symphony of Solera-aged bourbons, double cask rye, and American single malts that speak volumes of their field-to-glass philosophy. As we share our sensory expedition through the amber hues and rich aromas of each unique pour, you’ll grasp the profound influence of the Hudson Valley's terroir and understand why Hill Rock isn't just a distillery, but a pilgrimage for the palate.

During this extraordinary visit, where exclusivity meets intimacy, we’re reminded that some treasures are reserved solely for those who seek them out firsthand. The specialty releases that never leave the estate's embrace are testament to the allure of the distillery experience, giving guests a sip of something truly special. So, join us for a tale of passion, provenance, and the pursuit of the perfect dram. With each episode, we aim to elevate your spirits and share with you the extraordinary narratives and flavors we encounter. Don't forget to follow us, as the journey into the heart of culinary and tasting adventures is just beginning.

Thank you Jeffrey!!,
https://hillrockdistillery.com/home/

Thank you to our listeners!!

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Transcript

Chef James: 0:14

Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense. I'm your host, chef Massey Alright, so we went on a field trip to Hill Rock Estate Distillers. They're located in Ancrum, new York, in the beautiful Hudson Valley. That was fun, man.

: 0:29

It was. You know you live in this area for so many years and then you don't realize that you'd ever been on certain roads, and that was one of those days where we were on, like some new roads Right.

Chef James: 0:39

It was, you know, and we again. It was great because we always end up catching up and talking about things, but going and arriving there, it is this beautiful estate. You're going up this winding road and you're going to the visitor center there and you're pulling in and it is owned by Jeffrey Baker and also Kathy Franklin. We were lucky enough to actually get the chance to do a tour with the man you know. You know, and here's another thing. Oftentimes in my career I love doing things like this because, like you've heard me say, if I can step into someone else's world, I gain a richer appreciation.

: 1:24

Agree yeah.

Chef James: 1:25

And I have a knowledge base for the whiskeys, bourbons and an appreciation already and really a love for Hill Rock. But for you and I to do the tour, that's where you know, as a chef, as we're going out and picking or we go to the food shows, you know we go to these things. Seeing you enjoy that tour it inspires me and I get a level of appreciation out of it too, because we're both seeing some really amazing stuff in there.

: 1:51

Yeah, especially with that kind of thing. You know a lot of people don't even think about the beyond the scenes when they're taking a sip of whiskey.

Chef James: 1:59

No, right and we did a tasting there. Jeffrey was with us on that you guys will hear that as well and it was just very inspiring. We're going through their establishment on that tour and Jeffrey's even talking about this Solera process, which I don't want to go into full detail because I'll probably jumble it up a bit. It's an amazing process that they use for ports and cherries, and so, going into Hill Rock, they are a world-class establishment. You know they have their Solera aged bourbon, their double cask rye and their single malts. What did you think about the tasting? I mean, that was it was awesome, man.

: 2:37

Yeah, I really enjoyed it, and I've mostly done wine tastings, so to do a tasting like that was a little different, you know, right, right. And just like trying to get into the particulars, it was just interesting to see what the process for each was and then what the difference was in the taste.

Chef James: 2:55

The notes that are in there are. I can't say I have a favorite, but you know they're all.

: 3:00

Yeah, it was all very different.

Chef James: 3:02

They're excellent. They're excellent, yeah it was all very different. They're excellent, they're excellent, excellent. And you know, I think the beauty of Hill Rock is their commitment to really being passionate about where they come from.

: 3:13

Yeah.

Chef James: 3:14

You know that field to glass concept, that it's theirs, you know, and they are owning the entire process from their artisanal well that comes and then they do their corn barley and rye. They select those specifically and they use sustainable farming practices no pesticides, no herbicides, no chemical fertilizers on their crops. It's 850 acres and it's just beautiful. And Jeffrey is, and Kathy as well, understanding that terroir. We think about that with wines right, the gravel, the levels, the layering in the soil and mother nature and what it provides, and heat and everything right. That it's a good year. It's a this, it's a that they have that same commitment in what they do and taking that terroir concept, it's amazing, man.

: 4:18

Yeah, it was cool to do the podcast at the place.

Chef James: 4:21

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

: 4:22

There were some noises. You know there was a little bit of noise.

Chef James: 4:26

It sounds a little different than the normal podcast right, we're on a field trip yeah, and when we were in that big visitor center, which it was vaulted and you know you're right there with those beautiful, you know copper distillers on the other side of the wall and they're still working. They got work to do, yeah you know. So there's no slowing down, yeah, but it was a great opportunity for us to get in there and get inspired.

: 4:47

So you know what I thought was cool was uh, they don't have any outside investors, so it's really his. Uh, you know it's their operation, right, that makes it's. There's no outside influence.

Chef James: 4:58

There's no no, there's not some of these things that can really affect the outcome of your business, you know.

: 5:04

So it's cool that he had another career that he was, you know, funded this with. Yeah. You know that was interesting to me.

Chef James: 5:12

Yeah, and Kathy with her real estate, I mean just all of it Very fortunate. That was very. You know, that's a very good point, but yeah.

: 5:21

That was cool.

Chef James: 5:22

Yeah, very cool, it was a lot of fun. Should so guess what guys? Today on the podcast, we are doing a field trip. Jackson and I are at Hill Rock Estate Distillery. We are so lucky because we have the man, jeffrey Baker, with us. Welcome, well, thank you.

: 5:43

James, it's such a pleasure.

Chef James: 5:45

Yeah, and you know I have to share with everyone, not to make you jealous, but we're going to go into a tasting also with him. We just got done with a tour, Jackson and I, with Jeffrey, and it was truly inspiring. There's a reason why you know we're here today is to, you know, say thank you all for being the bar, you know, and continually raising that with your passion of what you do. So can we go into like just kind of start up of you know? How did you get into this?

: 6:13

I mean some people might say I'm out of my mind, but I grew up working on farms as a kid, so I had this whole you know love of agriculture and farming. And when I moved to New York in 1986, I pretty quickly realized I needed to have an escape. So I set up my first farm. It was about 100 miles north of New York and I had one of the earliest rotational grazed dairy herds in the East Coast in the late 80s, then pasture-raised beef and you might say I was a little ahead of the trend. And then ultimately I wanted to do something very special here at this location that really accentuated the importance of the Hudson Valley and the terroir that we have here. So I started looking at everything and was inspired by Captain Israel Harris, who built our house in 1806, who became a really successful grain merchant in the early 1800s. So I was like wow.

Chef James: 7:19

I didn't even know they were growing grain here.

: 7:22

And as it turns out, there were probably a thousand farm based distilleries. So that sort of inspired me to look at the movement the whiskey movement that was just beginning to happen in the craft space, and I thought that the industry was behind by a few decades behind wine, that is and so my theory was that whiskey should be just like a fine wine in that it should be a state-grown barley or rye or corn, and it should be the whiskey should come from individual fields that are unique, right. So we started doing that from day one when we set up the operation in 2010. And we brought in the ex-Makers Mark Master, distiller, dave Pickrell and we just created this operation really from scratch.

Chef James: 8:19

Okay, and you know, when we listen and we've seen the amazing work that you all do here, it really is, like you say, that field to glass concept. I mean, can you kind of give a little bit of detail on that too, because it's amazing.

: 8:35

Yeah, I should mention that we trademarked that, by the way. Oh, okay. Any of your guests who are thinking of using it.

: 8:42

don't Do not, you're making a trendy.

: 8:46

But what field-to-glass means to us is we control every aspect, from growing the grain ourselves to floor, malting it traditionally on site, to milling it, to distilling, to aging. So everything that happens with that whiskey between when we plant it to when you're drinking it, we control.

Chef James: 9:15

Okay.

: 9:16

And that means it's unique and it can't really be duplicated anywhere else, no matter what you do this location we farm about 850 acres. We grow all of the grain for our whiskeys on our own land and we release whiskeys by individual fields, so it's just not possible to create that same whiskey somewhere else.

Chef James: 9:43

Yeah, okay, and that's really amazing. I mean going up into the malting room there and seeing the space and when you look at that square, square footage of what you're doing I mean when you shared that was like an acre of barley or I mean you're like, wow, you know that's a lot, that's some money on the floor.

: 10:05

Well, the other thing people don't. You know, at one point we were all farmers. Now it's pretty rare, and people don't really understand the complexity of farming and how different it is every year. So our grain is different every year. One year there's a drought and it's stressed just like in a vineyard, just the way the grapes are, and all of that makes its way into the whiskey and influences it. So for us, that's what's exciting about it is dealing with the realities of farming, makes everything more complicated, but also just so much better. Yeah.

Chef James: 10:50

Yeah, wow, that's amazing. So, looking at your process too, you have the Solera process. Can you go into that too, because that's a whole other amazing, beautiful discussion.

: 11:02

Yeah, so we borrowed a lot of ideas from the wine world, and Solera aging has been used for centuries by port sherries, cognacs, some other products worldwide, but never for American whiskey. So we thought that it made a lot of sense. So what it is is, instead of dumping a couple of barrels and bottling them, we have a whole building dedicated to our Solera bourbon, and so we have the nursery, which is where New Make Bourbon goes into New Chard Oak barrels and lives there for at least five years. Then we have tier two, tier three and tier four. So it's almost as if every time we go to buy, something you're drinking is really a combination of all the vintages we've made of whiskey that are older than five years old. So they're mingling together in that solera, and every time we draw a little bit out, we add a little new make to the five-year-old plus whiskey. So what you're drinking is over eight years old on average, but it's kind of a marriage of many different vintages, right, right.

Chef James: 12:19

Wow, that's amazing. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess we have the tasting here. I mean, do we want to dive into this? And kind of, Well, why not? Yeah, why not?

: 12:29

So as you may know, james, we produce three basic whiskeys. So we create a bourbon whiskey which, as you might know, the mash bill for bourbon whiskey has to include corn at least 51%. Ours is a higher rye content. Then we make a rye whiskey which is all a state grown rye, 100% rye. And then we make a single-malt whiskey which is all estate-grown barley, which is then floor-malted on site. They're all uniquely different and I'd just invite you, james, just to take the covers off and let's just smell them a little bit, start with nosing them.

: 13:18

Okay, and I think bourbon, you know we start, we'll go left clockwise. So we have two bourbons, we have our.

: 13:27

Solera-aged bourbon. Then we have a Solera-aged bourbon that's been finished in a Dick Shea, pinot Noir cask from Shea Vineyards, pinot Noir cask from Shave Vineyards. Then we have our Double Cask Rye, which has gone into two new charred American Oak casks, and then we have our Double Cask Rye that's the Founders release, which has basically been finished in Port Sauternes, and Madeira casks, oh, wow. And then we have the single malt. Yeah, so let's smell the bourbon first. So, james, you notice, like you pick up those, it's kind of sweet notes. Corn gives you a little bit of sweetness, but ours goes into oloroso shrycast, so you're also maybe smelling a little bit of that nutty, fruity, floral characteristic, right? Oh, that's beautiful. And for all your podcast fans, I hope you come and visit us.

Chef James: 14:28

Oh yes, it's a must. It's an amazing location.

: 14:32

Right Awesome property too.

: 14:36

So what do you think? That's not bad, huh, wow, yeah, no, that's beautiful. That's won about 50 gold medals in major competitions. There we go, this point.

Chef James: 14:46

Oh yeah, it's excellent. Yeah, Are you kidding me? Sure.

: 14:51

Now, what do you think about the next one with that Pinot Noir cask? Then you're going to pick up a little bit of that red fruit.

Chef James: 14:59

I think, yeah, I agree, and actually I have this bottle at home and it's really unfortunate because I'm almost through that one.

: 15:06

Well, we might be able to help you out with that one Right.

Chef James: 15:11

Yeah, See that one, oh man.

: 15:14

It just adds a little bit more complexity to it. I love how the tone of that is yeah, it's really special, wow, it's way different.

: 15:24

Yeah, now you can slow down, but I don't want to rush you. Then there's the Double Cask Rye, which has won Best Rye Whiskey in the World three times in the Berlin competition. Which has won best rye whiskey in the world three times in the Berlin competition, and it's also won dozens of gold and double gold medals. What's unique about it is most rye whiskeys are really a cousin to bourbon and have corn in them, ours is 100% rye.

: 15:53

So it's got this kind of gravitas to it, yeah, and it's almost viscous of gravitas to it and it's almost viscous and very earthy Right. Oh yeah, all of our whizzies they're picking up different profiles, but you're getting char from the barrels. Okay, okay, because the inside of a barrel is really you. It looks like charcoal, yeah yeah, and that's where you get kind of almost um in white american oak, which we age in, that has a lot of sugar and vanillin in it. So what do you get when you char that creme?

Chef James: 16:30

brulee.

: 16:31

Yeah, exactly, oh, that's awesome, and then we've got that same whiskey. But then it went into Port Madeira and Saturn casks. It's almost like an old-fashioned glass.

Chef James: 16:50

It is.

: 16:51

It has that kind of tawny type of caramely yeah, again that sort of richness, but it's really fabulous. This is our founder's release that I married those different finishes together. Okay, now, both of those rye whiskeys are being released. This was our Wiltsie Bridge 2016 harvest Yep, so it came from a specific field. Okay, now, if you tasted another rye whiskey we make from a different field, you would distinguish the differences. Okay, wow. Now then there's last but not least, now, if you like peat smoke, then this single malt oh there it is. Wow, it's got a like peat smoke. Then this single malt oh there it is.

: 17:40

Wow, it's got a little peat smoke on it no, I got you yeah, now again, that starts in new charred American oak barrels, then it goes to ex-bourbon barrels, then it goes to a Pedro Jimenez sherry cask and then to an Oloroso sherry cask. So this has a lot of depth, that's big time smoky.

Chef James: 18:05

That's exactly.

: 18:07

I would argue this is the top rated American single malt. Wow, it's won a 97 wine enthusiast rating. It's gotten just incredible scores everywhere we put it Lots of double bolts.

Chef James: 18:22

Yeah, and I just love the variety where you're getting like caramely banana, creme brulee, vanilla bean. You know working your way around Layering.

: 18:31

Yeah, you know you should try this one, then with the port finish on top of that, it's like baker's chocolate and all these others. Oh, it's beautiful, it's incredible. They look amazing. Wow, I hope your fans aren't jealous.

Chef James: 18:44

Yeah, I know. No, no, I'm sure they will be. We'll make sure. Why wouldn't they be? Yeah, this has just been amazing. I mean so tasting all of these and the amazing varieties that you do have in the future. Varieties that you do have in the future, because in talking to you, you're you're that, you're the here, but you're also the future, this visionary. So do you see things developing further for you, or is this kind of like? You know we're home and in this for right now?

: 19:11

well, I think um, for us it's been about creating a world-class brand here in the Hudson Valley and really making a statement here. This area is really a special area and it's becoming what I call the Napa Valley of the East Coast. We've got amazing cheesemakers and charcuterie makers and winemakers and brewers and whiskey producers, and I think this is a very food-centric place. Sure, because you're so rooted in the earth here. It's such a beautiful place it's hard not to become enamored by it.

: 19:53

So for me this was a way to create a farm operation that had potential to draw more people here. And we have folks visit from all over the world, which is kind of fun. But you asked whether I might add some other things. Well, you know, not that I'm looking for another job besides farmer, distiller et cetera. Maltster, you know, I have enough spent distiller's grain that I could probably maintain about a 200 head beef herd.

: 20:33

Oh.

: 20:33

So someday I think you might see hill rock beef. That's basically been, you know, fed on hill rock grain. You know, that's a few years from now. I've got enough things.

: 20:46

It was interesting to hear you say that you know you had another career and so that you were able to do this without compromising. You know you had another career and so that you were able to do this without compromising and, like, I find that a lot of people will go all in on their passion without, and then they will need to make it, make money, and so can you just talk more about that Like not compromise?

: 21:04

Well, yeah, I mean I'm. I'm a Wharton MBA grad, so I'm a finance guy, amongst some other things, and so when I started this endeavor, I knew it had the potential to be highly profitable or wouldn't have necessarily embarked on it. But I also felt that it was a passion of mine to make the world's best field-to-glass whiskey. So it was important to us to be able to not cut corners, which meant no partners, no debt, and we were able to fund this. And, as I said earlier, you know the whiskey we're making today we're not selling for probably seven or eight years. So it's a long game and you have to be patient, and the last thing you want to do is release something before it's really reached its potential.

: 21:59

So we've been really fortunate with that At this point I'm focusing the vast majority of my attention on Hill Rock and you know it's just growing into an incredible business, right? You know we'll be rolling out internationally sometime soon. We're in about 25 states for distribution. We'll be in 50 in two or three, four years right, sweet, that's awesome.

Chef James: 22:27

What? What do you see and how the industry is going and you like your pride points and maybe concern points for the future. Are there any thoughts?

: 22:35

Well, I think it's kind of funny. Some of you, if you might be wine aficionados, would know, in the 70s there was the Judgment of Paris where Staggley beat Latour and Rothschild in blind tastings. And I think we're kind of in the same inflection point in whiskeys, in that we go head-to-head in competitions and beat all the established big brands.

: 23:03

And that's because we're doing things very traditionally, but with innovation also very traditionally but with innovation, right so, and we're just producing such high quality and um that that people are having to look at us yeah and um, so I'm I'm amused, because I also tried to trademark estate distillery but they wouldn't let us and I I now see big brands buying farmland and starting to do release think of doing releases that they can call estate releases, and I think that's really what people want. Yeah, they want products that are unique and different and rooted in a place.

Chef James: 23:47

Right, and the palates have changed. I mean, even you know, as being a chef, um, I, I'm. I know farmers feel that to cheesemakers, to you, know all of us. When you're, when you're in in the roots and in that vision, from a hundred percent ground up or well up it is, it just speaks volumes. Yeah, that artisanal side, that touch is so powerful and you taste it with everything you're doing.

: 24:13

Yeah, it's definitely a good taste.

Chef James: 24:14

Isn't it something, yeah. So you know, I'm really grateful, you know, for this opportunity to come in here and and do this tour and enjoy some time with you, because it's a real privilege.

: 24:24

Well, it's our privilege to share with you and your listeners.

: 24:30

Yeah, thank you. What's the best way for people to connect or come for a visit?

: 24:35

Yeah, so we do tastings by reserve here seven days a week. Go to our website, book a tour, come on in and visit us. There's so many of our releases that don't leave the distillery that I guarantee you it'll be special if you come here, and there are so many things you can find and buy and take home with you here that you just won't find in the market okay, fantastic, well, all right.

Chef James: 25:02

Well, I think you know we're gonna roll off from here, but, you know, thank you again. And uh, sorry you guys couldn't be here for the tasting because it was outstanding. Yeah, all right, everyone, that is a wrap. You can check us out if you like that. Subscribe Also the Instagram Chef Massey. Let's keep it simple, chef Massey dot com. Have a good one. Bye for now.