Sowing Seeds of Joy and Sustenance on a Community-focused Farm

Imagine finding your life's calling in the idyllic landscapes of Italy, surrounded by the finest food and wine. This was the reality for Jamie and Madison, the heart and soul behind Dancing Greens Farm, who joined us to share their journey from studying food systems to creating a community-centered vegetable oasis. Their tale is not only about farming but also about cultivating joy through their farm-to-table shindigs that spotlight the freshest, locally grown produce. The duo launched their farm in January 2023 and already boasts an impressive roster of over 160 produce varieties, amplifying their belief in the power of diversity on the plate and in the field.

When you think about fennel, does cake come to mind? Thanks to Jamie and Madison, it might now. In this episode, we unwrap culinary innovation at its most delicious, discussing how a dessert like fennel cake with honey fennel syrup is winning hearts and changing minds. The secret ingredient here, beyond the produce, is the spirit of collaboration. From partnerships with local artisans to accommodating diverse diets, our guests reveal how they're weaving a narrative of sustainability and inclusion into every meal. It's a celebration of Berkshire County's culinary tapestry and a testament to how relationships can transform a farm's harvest into a shared community feast.

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https://www.dancing-greens.com/

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Transcript

Chef James: 0:14

Hey everyone, welcome to Chef Sense. I'm your host, chef Massey. Okay, so today in the studio, I am so excited we have Jamie and Madison from Dancing Greens Farm. I am so excited we have Jamie and Madison from Dancing Greens Farm. Now that name in itself that's like a shot of uber, shot of vitamin D, like that makes me happy. Like even that name alone like pulls you right in, so like let's hear about it. This is cool.

Farmer Jamie: 0:38

Yeah, absolutely Well, thank you so much for having us in. We're so excited to be here and to be sharing what we're doing. We're fans of the podcast.

Chef James: 0:49

Thank you so much, I'm grateful.

Farmer Jamie: 0:51

Dancing Greens Farm is a small diversified vegetable farm in. Monterey. We grow and sell our produce and in addition to our produce, we put on what we call shim digs, which are, by definition, definition, a full on celebration. So we do farm to table dinners and events where we bring people in to what we are doing.

Chef James: 1:15

Which is amazing, right, that is so cool, yeah, okay.

Farmer Jamie: 1:20

And so Madison and I met in studying food systems in graduate school in Italy.

Chef James: 1:26

Yeah, like I saw that. How cool is that. Wow, yeah, so we met on another continent brought together by food.

Farmer Jamie: 1:34

I really was there because I come from a background of agriculture and environmental science.

Chef James: 1:40

Oh, so, awesome.

Farmer Jamie: 1:41

I'm very motivated by how interconnected agriculture and climate change are and all of the you know systematic problems that are there with it, and Madison comes from a culinary background. Okay, so she's very motivated by cooking and bringing you know high quality food to people.

Chef James: 2:03

Yep.

Farmer Jamie: 2:04

And also motivated by good food, helping human health, basically, and when talking more and learning more. Basically, environmental health, the health of the soil and the organisms living in it, and the health of people with what they're eating. They're basically the same thing, yeah, so we need to consistently be putting them together. Sure, and that's sort of what brought us together.

Chef James: 2:28

That's so cool. Yeah, wow, yeah, okay.

Farmer Jamie: 2:32

And then we. So we met there and started learning and when we, a few months into the program, we got to go to this agriturismo in Tuscany and literally we were, it sounds sort of fake we were walking in this beautiful setting, you know, in between, in the olive fields, basically talking about everything we're learning, where we came from and our dreams for the future, and basically we realized like, oh, we have the same dream, the exact same dream, the exact same dream.

Chef James: 3:09

Okay.

Farmer Jamie: 3:10

Yeah so cool. Actually, because you mentioned the name, we have a really fun story about where the name came from.

Chef James: 3:16

Oh cool, that's even better.

Chef Madison: 3:19

So we were actually on this foraging expedition in Italy, which was incredible, but it's really cool group of people, and it was led by this gentleman who had been foraging and working with groups in the area for so many years, and we were walking through and identifying plants that are edible, and then he'd hold one up, and then he'd hold up another one that looked exactly the same and say and this one will kill you.

Chef Madison: 3:43

Wow'll get your attention, and so we spent this afternoon, gathering these edible plants and bringing them back um, and we were looking at this beautiful lake and music started playing because everybody had, you know, accordions and whatnot, and this kind of joyful celebration broke out. And as we're about to eat all the food that we gathered, we realized nobody brought any utensils, so we all just started eating the salad with our hands and dancing with the music and we were like dancing and greens and and when we were named, thinking we're like it has to be something that encapsulates that experience that we had. That was just pure joy, just pure joy.

Chef James: 4:21

So that's what we're trying to do. That is so cool. Yeah, wow, what a foundation. So now, how long have you been in operation?

Farmer Jamie: 4:28

Well, we had been dreaming about it for a long time but, we legally became established January of last year.

Jackson: 4:37

Okay 2023.

Farmer Jamie: 4:38

2023. So we just did our first season and we're going into our second season.

Chef James: 4:42

Okay, oh wow, that's awesome. First season and we're going into our second season. Okay, oh wow, that's awesome. So when you look at your, your operation size, I mean what, what size is that? Your, your acreage and what you're dealing with?

Farmer Jamie: 4:52

So the growing space is a half an acre, so it's very small. We do like hyper-intensive market garden style.

Chef James: 5:00

Okay.

Farmer Jamie: 5:01

And since we are doing the shindigs and events, I'm sort of growing for that.

Chef James: 5:05

Okay, yeah, I would Yep.

Farmer Jamie: 5:07

In demonstrating what we can do on a small scale.

Chef James: 5:10

Okay.

Chef Madison: 5:10

But, in addition to what we're growing for the shindigs, jamie's also growing for last year we had a farm stand this year we'll enter the West Dockbridge Farmer's Market on Thursday evenings. Last year we did a small CSA. This year we have opportunities to expand our growing space, which Jamie should speak to.

Farmer Jamie: 5:28

Tom Brazy at the farm in Marlboro is letting us grow some over there. So we're actually going to get to expand our growing space.

Chef James: 5:35

That's fantastic Okay.

Chef Madison: 5:38

But as somebody who's not a farmer, who's come into this relationship where I get to work very closely with a farmer. It's really incredible, because when I saw the half acre I didn't know what could come out of that and when we started dreaming and picking out seeds at the beginning of last year I just kind of begged Jamie to give us as much color and variety and interesting vegetables and herbs and edible flowers that she could come up with, and she grew over 160 varieties.

Chef James: 6:06

Really, yes, wow, that's unbelievable. Thank you, she's really good. I think when we were dreaming in Italy.

Chef Madison: 6:15

We both talked a big game about what we were capable of, but we didn't actually know that we could pull this off, and I didn't know that Jamie was such a fantastic farmer until we got into it.

Farmer Jamie: 6:24

Wow, that's so awesome. Thank you, madison's very kind. Yeah, she's my hype woman. Yeah, well, that's hey that's, that's a team.

Chef James: 6:30

Absolutely Stick together and do what you love to do.

Chef Madison: 6:33

Right.

Chef James: 6:33

Okay, wow, very cool.

Chef Madison: 6:35

Can I keep hyping? Sure, yeah, so. So last year we we started in January Um, by March Jamie had completely become the brainchild of what the irrigation system would be. She's never done irrigation by the way. Designed and built an irrigation system from scratch, brought in electric, tealed up or cut into the sod because the space was just a big lawn, essentially Built the hoop house, built the shed, built an outdoor kitchen and got plants in the ground all in three months, wow.

Farmer Jamie: 7:11

I had some help, yeah, but yeah it was.

Chef James: 7:14

That's great.

Farmer Jamie: 7:15

We had a goal of what we wanted to get done for, you know, starting the season.

Chef James: 7:19

Yeah.

Farmer Jamie: 7:20

And that space, you know, had the opportunity to be transformed.

Chef James: 7:25

Are you doing dinners every? Is this like every week, like a couple dinners every week, or is this like full five days?

Farmer Jamie: 7:32

No, so it is more sporadic than that. We did 10 shindigs last year.

Chef James: 7:37

Okay, they take.

Farmer Jamie: 7:39

You know they're a big lift to put on.

Chef James: 7:41

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Farmer Jamie: 7:42

And they're a very special thing to set up the table and do the outdoor kitchen. So we did 10 from the month of July to October. Yeah, wow, very cool and our shindigs last year.

Chef Madison: 7:56

We got to experiment quite a bit.

Chef Madison: 7:57

So we did, kind of our quintessential, the kind of the thing that we realized was the most special. That actually felt like magic and when I talk about it and think about it I get goosebumps because it was that cool and those experiences, those shindigs where we would bring anywhere from 25 to 35 people to the farm. If we're on Blue Hill Road, which is just a really picturesque location already so you drive in through these, you know magical trees and you enter the farm and we have a little pond next to our growing space. So you walk over the pond and you enter the farm and Jamie greets you and we have a little beverage and you get to learn about how she's growing everything. So we do a really immersive farm tour.

Chef Madison: 8:41

It's a lot of education. That tour usually lasts anywhere from half an hour to an hour, depending on how excited people are. And people tend to be really excited about that.

Chef James: 8:50

Oh sure.

Chef Madison: 8:52

And while Jamie's showing people vegetables and kind of blowing their mind that a zucchini plant grows this way and this leaf means this plant, I get to come around with little bites of the food that we've actually just harvested that morning.

Chef James: 9:04

Okay.

Chef Madison: 9:06

And then we all come together and sit at a long table in the center of the farm. So you're actually you can still smell the tomatoes growing right next to you.

Chef James: 9:13

Oh, I love that. It's amazing that tacky like yeah just stays with you once you touch the leaf?

Farmer Jamie: 9:20

Yeah, definitely the tomatoes.

Jackson: 9:22

You got me yeah, yeah you got me yeah, yeah, wow, that's.

Chef James: 9:26

So is this like multiple courses, or is it like family style, or it's?

Chef Madison: 9:30

it is a lot of courses because okay because jamie is growing. I said 160 varieties, so so much, yeah, deliciousness. That is really hard for me, as somebody who really likes to cook, to to limit myself. So we're we're kind of doing anywhere from eight to 10 courses. We're doing family style oh fun. And the reason we do family style is, one, it's less waste, which is really important to us. But two, it's more communal and more exciting and you have to talk to the person next to you.

Chef Madison: 9:58

And it kind of creates that community vibe, so it's a really joyful atmosphere. And then at the end of our 10 courses the most fun I've had is actually trying to figure out how to put vegetables into dessert. So I do a lot of that.

Chef James: 10:16

That's pretty cool. What are some?

Jackson: 10:18

desserts. Oh, there you go, vegetable desserts.

Chef Madison: 10:22

I think the favorite last year was maybe fennel cake.

Chef James: 10:26

Oh.

Chef Madison: 10:26

So doing a fennel honey syrup, kind of drenching this fennel cake, and so it just is like fennel is so sweet and delicious.

Chef James: 10:35

It is. That's a great idea.

Chef Madison: 10:37

And some people think they hate fennel. And then they try the cake and they're like oh no, no, I love fennel. This is amazing.

Chef James: 10:42

That's great try the cake and they're like oh no, no, I love that.

Chef Madison: 10:44

This is amazing, that's great. And then we did a lot with husk cherries and jams and pavlovas and fun things like that.

Chef James: 10:50

Okay, wow, you are really busy with that.

Farmer Jamie: 10:54

And also, in addition, we partner a lot with people. That's a huge tenet to. What we want to do is collaborations and community building and partners, and of course, we're only growing vegetables, so by having these dinners we're able to feature other farms and other products that we really admire and are doing really good work that's great.

Chef James: 11:16

Wow, that's busy yes, busy gee, so I I would imagine this is like plant forward, obviously.

Chef Madison: 11:24

Is it vegetarian? No, okay.

Chef James: 11:27

So it's like almost like that Mediterranean diet where you're vegetable forward but and accentuating with like quality proteins and preparation on that Exactly.

Chef Madison: 11:37

And one of the things that we care a lot about. Actually, I'm lactose intolerant.

Jackson: 11:41

Oh boy.

Farmer Jamie: 11:41

Jamie's a vegetarian.

Chef Madison: 11:43

We have people in our lives that are celiac or that have a nut allergy. Somebody we care a lot about actually hates cilantro.

Chef James: 11:52

So you know people come with a lot of different preferences and allergies. Yes, there's a lot.

Chef Madison: 11:57

There's a lot of that and one of the things we found when we've been going to farms to eat or doing these kind of farm-to-table style dinners that it's actually really difficult for everybody at the table to feel taken care of and for all of those allergies to be accommodated. So we do that. It's really important to us. So we send out a survey before. So we know, exactly what people are coming with, and then we cater to all of the diets and make sure that nobody feels uncomfortable or awkward or unsafe.

Chef Madison: 12:26

You know they have it all, but what that means is that vegetables tend to have front and center at the table, because so many people can eat so many vegetables.

Chef James: 12:34

Right, okay, that's pretty awesome, you know, looking at. Are there like themes that you do for each dinner or you just kind of?

Farmer Jamie: 12:43

We did a lot of veggie puns last year oh, you know, cool, those are great to theme our dinners um so. But this year we sort of want to focus more on bigger themes like theme of circularity okay, um and theming like using waste and things like that oh great idea so we like to slip in bits of education in like a joyful experience.

Farmer Jamie: 13:11

So I'm very aware of how a lot of farming spaces can feel preachy or like you're coming to a lecture, and we don't want it to feel like that. We want it to feel like you're coming to have this really fun time on a farm and eat really well and then you're learning something as well, like you had no idea that you could save. You know the carrot tops and make a pasta oh yeah, that's a great idea.

Farmer Jamie: 13:38

Sure, sure, right, so right, um, that's a big part of what we want to do in, you know, our education to feel immersive and joyful. See, and that's you big part of what we want to do in, you know, our education to feel immersive and joyful.

Chef James: 13:47

See, and that's you know, I think, especially today, I mean as chefs and as farmers, you know we have a great responsibility to the land. It starts with the land, it starts with the animals, the husbandry, like how that goes, because you taste a difference.

Farmer Jamie: 14:03

Absolutely.

Chef James: 14:04

And it's you know it's my opinion, but it's the right thing to do. But you know it goes such a long way because it's such a true story and journey that you're putting forward. It's beautiful to see that more and more today. You know, especially with you know the work that you guys are all doing and setting the example. It's great, so wow.

Farmer Jamie: 14:23

We love the storytelling piece of it. Yeah, to like give every vegetable their own stories in addition to like our stories or how we came, how you know we got started and there's a story with the season as well. So, like the obstacles or the you know, joyful moments that we experience as it goes, like we believe in, like threading that in to our dinners and what we're putting out there.

Chef James: 14:48

Yeah and I love the idea of like I always like doing that kind of mind play with sweet and savory. Not everything 100% goes, but I think mastering that skill set where it's like you know, I'm going to make a ramp ice cream, you know, and then maybe I'll candy it and I'll, you know, break it up on the top, or, you know, thinking of that process, is just another opportunity, you know, to A challenge yourself.

Chef Madison: 15:16

but also use inventory that you have, or you know, the world around you, you know, and I think that's great well, and and here in berkshire county the, the people and the businesses and the creatives and the farmers like there's just such a wealth of like really talented folks doing really cool things. So beyond us just growing and cooking these vegetables, like that piece is really important. It's highlighting everybody that we can, that's around us and and telling their as well.

Chef James: 15:44

That's so cool Wow.

Farmer Jamie: 15:46

And that's one of the things that I'll hype up. Madison now she is excellent at is I will give her you know this is what I think is going to be ready at this time, but it just depends, and because of our model, we don't have to cook to a menu, so we can be flexible and she is so adaptable with you know what is available in a moment where we're finalizing the menus the day.

Chef Madison: 16:14

it's hard to do like right.

Chef James: 16:16

You know, even with you know, some resorts I've been at. It's like I've I've worked with local farms to say, hey, if there's anything that you've never grown before you know, throw it at me. You know, I know it's, you know it's. You don't want to do entire field of it, but if you want us to try it here, let's, let's do that. I mean, I've, I've sat with them and basically built out you know a growing schedule or these things that they would be willing to try. And then we just start getting them in. You know, or working with, like the head gardener at a resort where you know, yeah, it's, you're going on that spreadsheet and you know how that's going to cycle in. You know, and they're like all of a sudden you've got hops coming in and you're like, wait, well, I guess I'll do a hop salt. You're constantly thinking through in that relationship and I think it's important because one feeds the other on creativity.

Chef James: 17:11

Farmers are so essential and so important, I mean, to me a farmer is it's like that. It's essential, we must have them, we must have you in our lives for existence. It's like the honeybee, right? It's this key component that people don't realize the network, the spider webbing of existence that comes off of your love of what you do. And it is love of what you do because you don't get a lot and sometimes you know, or the government doesn't give a lot either and you're sandwiched, you know, and it's um, there there's. You know there's tight months, there's tight months, there's tight seasons, and you know it's, and it's so interesting because you're, you're not in control, you're dealing with Mother Nature.

Chef James: 17:59

I mean, there's obviously things out there that people do to control, which I can go into for fun, but the special place that our Berkshire and New England farmers and some of our other farmers across our great country, where they are spearheading in their own way, this moment of we're going to stand, where we believe in and keep replicating that every season, and it's very powerful. You know, and that's where I think a chef like I you know we talked before as that storyteller that I have a responsibility to not only the people that I lead but those that believe in me and provide me with what they're gifted at doing, and that's a farmer, or another business, you know, whether it's South River Miso, you know or or some of these other companies that you know that are amazing in our community. I maybe that sounds like a. You know we put pressure on ourselves, but I think it's the right way to think about it. You know, and you guys do that, and it's amazing.

Farmer Jamie: 18:53

It's really important. We can't work in a silo. You know farms can't work in a silo.

Jackson: 18:58

You know, farms can't work in a silo restaurants can't work in a silo other.

Farmer Jamie: 19:01

We need like that, what you said, that spider web, that that intersection model of us all lifting each other up yeah, it's so important because also that's how community change happens. That's how what we think about food system change happens sure sure we're really big believers in. You know, where we feel strongest is the bottom up. That's where we feel like we feel our best and most excited in that work. And how can we bring everybody up with us?

Chef James: 19:31

Yeah, yeah, and as you guys are kind of reaching out to the community, I mean you are I know you're saying you're selling, you're focused on your ginners Are you like CSA at some point or kind of pulling?

Farmer Jamie: 19:43

I think it's something, a goal in the future. We're still figuring out consistency in growing, and that's something with CSA. You really need that diversity and consistency every week. We're going to do the farmer's market this year and sell at Tom at the farm his store and then continue selling to the food access program at Berkshire Grown and I am going to continue to learn how to grow as a farmer and build up that community to have that membership and that's the Berkshire Mobile Farmer's Market.

Chef James: 20:19

They do two programs. Okay, it's awesome.

Farmer Jamie: 20:20

To have that membership and that's the Berkshire Mobile Farmers Market that they do two programs.

Chef James: 20:22

Okay, is the other the Berkshire Mobile.

Farmer Jamie: 20:24

Market, and then they have another food access program.

Chef James: 20:26

That's the other one, okay, yeah.

Farmer Jamie: 20:27

But they're actually expanding the mobile market to Monterey, which is really exciting.

Jackson: 20:31

Oh, that's awesome.

Farmer Jamie: 20:32

So it will be a hyper local farm for that mobile market.

Chef James: 20:35

Oh, that's great. That, oh, that's great, that's a good pull. Okay, wow, all right. Well, when you look at, you know your farm and are there like milestones that you're going to carry forward into your new season.

Farmer Jamie: 20:49

I mean, what are your wins and things you're dealing with?

Chef James: 20:50

Yeah, that's a big question so there's a lot to say I'll start with the shindig piece.

Chef Madison: 20:55

Okay, so last season we hosted, as Jamie said, 10 shindigs. These were the dinners on the farm. We also did a couple of dinners in New York City. We did a retreat on the farm, oh wow A multi-day retreat, which was fantastic. We did a big bash. We called it just basically a party on the farm.

Chef Madison: 21:14

We brought in a lot of producers and we did a lot of workshops and so we got to test a lot of different things. So, looking ahead to season two, we know we want to do the dinners on the farm again, because that was so special and we really wanted to deepen the workshop and educational offerings that we have.

Chef Madison: 21:32

So every Sunday on the farm at the end of May to as long as it's warm enough out September probably, we'll have an educational standing workshop so that people can come and experience a lot of different things. Whether it's Jamie teaching about farming principles, I can lead some cooking lessons, or we can bring in some other experts from the community.

Chef James: 21:53

Oh, that's so cool. And actually going into your farming practices. You're a no-till right. That's right, did I get that right? Okay, yeah, can you explain that a little bit for some of our listeners that are maybe not aware of exactly?

Farmer Jamie: 22:06

So no-till is a farming principle where you basically, once the beds are created, you do not till the ground again. So tilling a lot of people think of tilling and they could think of like the horse in the plow you know, back in the day and going through, and that's obviously one form of it. But now, tilling is a much more mechanical operation where you're taking, you know, machinery, and very quickly, with this very heavy tractor going over the land and mixing up all of the soil and breaking up everything there.

Farmer Jamie: 22:43

When you're doing that, you're destroying all the microorganism communities that were built in the soil, and another thing about tilling is that it releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere because, soil holds carbon Right exactly. And I'm not trying to hate on tilling, there's lots of different ways to go about farming.

Chef James: 23:06

Absolutely.

Farmer Jamie: 23:07

But in a way that in the scale that we're at and I grow with soil health being like my shining light, so I'm thinking about everything that could improve soil health.

Chef James: 23:20

Yeah.

Farmer Jamie: 23:20

So a no-till system. We do a one-time till where we, you know, we get all the grass out and we build our beds and then, once those beds are built, we don't till after that. So we do other methods of terminating crops and flipping crops over.

Chef James: 23:35

Okay.

Farmer Jamie: 23:35

You know, a broad fork becomes our best friend to break up compaction. We use a lot of tarping. We use a lot of mulching. One of the principles is like you don't want the ground to be uncovered, you want to always have ground cover, whether that be, cover crop compost mulch because when soil is exposed it's getting dehydrated and impacting those microorganisms.

Chef James: 23:59

Okay, okay Very cool, okay Very interesting.

Farmer Jamie: 24:02

So that's how we're growing and I really believe in it. I think it's really great. And then, in addition to that, the first farm I worked at, I learned about the three C's, which are compost crop, rotation and cover cropping as like another guiding light to incorporate into the farm and I'm always adding as much compost as I can, growing in a way that I'm rotating the crops to make sure I'm breaking up disease cycles.

Chef James: 24:31

Yeah, monocropping or doing that whole.

Farmer Jamie: 24:33

Yeah, right, right, exactly.

Chef James: 24:35

Yeah, that's rough.

Jackson: 24:37

What were some like ways that you learned about the soil, like did you read about it? Or did you learn like, where did you learn about that?

Farmer Jamie: 24:43

Both, I mean. I guess, to go a little bit into my, my background, I I didn't grow up on a farm. The first farm I worked at was actually Stone Barns in.

Jackson: 24:55

New York I know, I started, I started.

Chef James: 24:57

There you go.

Farmer Jamie: 24:58

Hi and. I was like oh is every farm like this?

Chef James: 25:02

Yeah.

Farmer Jamie: 25:05

Um and the farm staff there really took the time to teach like those three. C's I mentioned like they. They stopped and paused and they said let's really talk about this, and like just sparks were going off inside of me. I was like this is so fascinating, so cool.

Farmer Jamie: 25:22

I'm a science geek and I love growing food that's amazing, yeah and then you know, I studied environmental science in college and I geared a lot of what I was learning to learning more about agriculture. I've read a lot of books, I've listened to a lot of podcasts, I've worked on five different farms, so I've learned a lot of methods.

Chef James: 25:42

Oh my Okay.

Farmer Jamie: 25:42

And I've also done Woofing, which is a room and board exchange program on farms.

Jackson: 25:50

And.

Farmer Jamie: 25:50

I've done a permaculture course, okay, and I know to get into farming you've got to have a lot of tricks up your sleeves and you've got to be able what you were talking about before. You're not in control. So how can I have all these tools in my toolkit, both figuratively and literally, where I can adapt to what's going on? And a lot of that is just continuously learning. So, I'm a lifelong learner, from the farm, from the soil wow, I really believe that that's great isn't she great?

Chef James: 26:25

yeah, that's a lot of that's a lot of I'm very, very lucky.

Farmer Jamie: 26:30

I'm very lucky that I was able to really follow my passion so that's cool, okay, yeah, wow, okay.

Chef James: 26:37

Well, I mean I guess we should culinary-wise, I mean we're, I mean because this is. You guys are amazing.

Chef Madison: 26:43

It's really funny, actually, because Jamie didn't say this, but she was, like, born to be a farmer and she always tells the story of how, when she was a kid, everybody would bring their snacks to school, and you know it'd be candy bars or whatnot, and she'd bring the cucumber I, I, oh, that's all I was like yeah I was like a weird kid like I was, like I like

Chef James: 27:04

I like my parents didn't have to try hard, they're like, are you sure? Yeah, you probably would have been the one I was trying to get a hold of, just because I needed to get rid of my vienna sausages.

Chef Madison: 27:14

Those were so gross, oh well um, but we have very different upbringings. So I grew up actually in Utah, in Serbia, and every meal was great, but it was the drive-thru Okay. So it was Wendy's, mcdonald's, taco Bell on rotate and then cereal for breakfast, which were great, but I also didn't ever know how to cook. We didn't really turn on the stove in my house, and I eventually discovered in my 20s that I was lactose intolerant and all of this food that I was eating was actually causing me a lot of pain. And so I started this journey of why do I hurt? What's going on. And once I discovered that, I realized it's actually hard to find food that is, you know, not going to hurt me.

Chef James: 28:03

Yeah, I have to start cooking Over-processed.

Chef Madison: 28:05

Yes. So then I started cooking and I got to a point where I could only do so much. I had the three recipes and that kind of got boring and I started reading blogs and reading cookbooks. And you know, you can only go so far. And so then I very I'm so fortunate I got to go to natural gourmet institute.

Chef Madison: 28:24

oh, cool in new york city, oh wow, which is a health supportive culinary school, really fantastic environment and I learned how to cook for allergies. I learned how to cook with the seasons, I learned about fresh produce, I learned about the more color on your plate and all of these things were just like wow. It was the most joyful, most incredible experience I could have had was my time at that culinary school. It just like everything changed for me, and and so then, from then on, I was I just have to cook all the time.

Chef James: 28:53

Oh, that's awesome.

Chef Madison: 28:54

Yeah, um. But then fast forward to the pandemic and and I thought I'd figured it out I was like oh, just eat, eat, you know, beautiful vegetables, good food yeah, you'll be fine and turns out, it's a lot more complicated than that and there's a lot of work at play outside of that and the systems that are, you know, have been long established. It's food access and and what you have the ability to to do are are really limited and so I I was like, if it's this difficult for so many people, what's going on?

Chef Madison: 29:28

why is this happening? Who's in charge what? And discovered this program in italy, where jamie and I met, and it was um studying food systems. I didn't even know what food systems, what that?

Chef James: 29:40

meant.

Chef Madison: 29:41

Like what is the system for food. So it was all eye-opening and then speaking with Jamie and me really saying like it's human health, like how do we find our, how do we find health for our bodies, and she was like it starts at the soil.

Chef James: 29:54

Yep.

Chef Madison: 29:55

Let's do this together.

Chef James: 29:56

Yeah, so interesting and that's an amazing journey, like I'm so grateful with a podcast because I talked to amazing people that almost seem like that they're predestined. You know, you have this course that we're sent on right.

Chef James: 30:10

And you know you're brought together for a reason and I think that's really powerful, that's so cool, wow. So I mean, when you guys are, you know, going along, you're doing your dinners right now at the farm. Do you ever see going to other locations, or is it just kind of like, you know, like pop-ups or we did two in new york city last year oh, wow, that's a journey, that's a journey, yeah, okay and that actually you know when we started.

Farmer Jamie: 30:37

We want in the partnership piece, we want to work with partners to bring it to other spaces. That's definitely, and also because, to be honest, to be in the farm in this outdoor setting, we really only have two and a half months to work with. Yeah, it's still warm enough at night and, you know, light enough at night to do it. So that's definitely. Oh, we did it at, we did some we did some practice years.

Farmer Jamie: 31:04

Yep, we worked with farah at bondu right in new ashford, um, and then we did a dinner at red shirt farm.

Chef Madison: 31:10

Oh cool, yeah, one of the things that I'm really proud of in our first season is we built a completely mobile kitchen setup so we can go anywhere we need to go as long as there's electricity and water.

Chef James: 31:21

Electricity and water Like a food trailer.

Chef Madison: 31:25

Not it's bins, but yes, yeah, well, that's awesome.

Chef James: 31:29

Wow, that's great. You know it's funny hearing you guys. Lynn Avon is someone that I've gotten to know over this last year or so but she has Dandelion Forest Farm over there in New Hampshire and it's just such a cool process and hearing you guys and what Lynn is doing as well. It's such an amazing concept because she's doing similar things.

Jackson: 31:51

Oh great.

Chef James: 31:52

Yeah, I have to. Maybe I'll give you her number if you ever want.

Jackson: 31:56

She really is awesome.

Chef James: 31:58

But you know she's doing like sodas and fermenting and certain things she's doing acorns and stuff too. I mean, do you guys get into? I mean it's a half acre you're growing on, but do you forage as well? Is that something you like to?

Farmer Jamie: 32:11

do yes, my partner actually loves foraging mushrooms.

Chef James: 32:16

Very cool, oh, okay.

Farmer Jamie: 32:18

He's always in the woods looking for mushrooms okay, so you guys okay come along um so ramps and things like that as well, and I definitely you guys have your spots on those and, like you, feel pretty good yes well, I mean, I have a pen here if you just want to write down the address.

Chef James: 32:35

No, we don't do that. No, that's, that's awesome.

Farmer Jamie: 32:38

No competition. Okay, I got to get there first.

Chef James: 32:41

I got to earn my keep. I get. It Makes sense. You know I love foraging too Like. Have you heard John Wheeler at?

Farmer Jamie: 32:49

all yes, yeah, of course.

Chef James: 32:50

Yeah, he's great. He's such a riot but getting out and you know, getting in the forest and grabbing those mushrooms.

Farmer Jamie: 33:01

And we really have like a plethora of them around here.

Chef James: 33:03

It's a great, great place. Yeah, yeah, forage, it's huge, um, even chaga. You know I try to get in the wintertime and try it right, but, um, so I guess, looking at your dinners, so you post them online, I mean, how far out do you go?

Chef Madison: 33:14

we we're trying to um post even earlier this year um. So our goal is in the next couple of weeks to finalize our schedule. We have a lot of ideas and we kind of have to narrow it down, actually, and we'll post it to our website and if people sign up for our mailing list, they'll be the first to know.

Farmer Jamie: 33:32

So sign up for our mailing list.

Chef James: 33:33

Okay.

Jackson: 33:34

So that's a good.

Farmer Jamie: 33:35

Yeah, and we're at dancing-greenscom Right.

Chef Madison: 33:38

Oh okay, and then, if you're not into the emails, you can find us on all of the social media platforms. Okay, and we're also announcing there.

Jackson: 33:46

Oh, awesome. Okay, Do you guys do your own social media and stuff?

Farmer Jamie: 33:50

Oh, yeah, yes.

Jackson: 33:51

Who does it more? Wow, it's a joint operation.

Farmer Jamie: 33:56

I would say I take a lot of the content and Madison does a lot of the um posting Cool.

Jackson: 34:02

Yes, so it's a collab.

Chef Madison: 34:03

We're definitely collaborating, because neither of us is we.

Farmer Jamie: 34:06

There's a lot of hats you have to wear and starting a job, yeah, and social media is one we've had to like, had some we've had to grow into.

Jackson: 34:15

Yeah.

Farmer Jamie: 34:15

Yeah, we're learning a lot. We just started a TikTok.

Jackson: 34:19

I've got a nice audience there.

Farmer Jamie: 34:21

Yeah.

Chef James: 34:22

All right, cool, yeah. No, I've had my own journey as a music artist, just like you always just have to go back to what you're passionate about.

Chef Madison: 34:30

Yeah.

Jackson: 34:31

It can be. Yeah, it's just another hat. Exactly You've got to limit your time doing it, but also do it enough to bring in new business and stuff, and you have to just train yourself that every activity you have to film.

Chef Madison: 34:46

There's a photo or a video of everything you're doing.

Jackson: 34:48

It changes, it can be fun, yeah, right.

Chef Madison: 34:52

It gets difficult when I'm in the kitchen, I can't pick up a phone. When Jamie's in the field, she can't pick up a phone. So when we're together we can help fill each other Kind of knock it out.

Jackson: 35:01

Yeah share that responsibility?

Chef James: 35:03

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. The sponsor today is BetterHelp. Betterhelp is an online therapy service. They have 30,000 licensed therapists in their network. It's really amazing and I have enjoyed taking advantage of this opportunity with them myself because oftentimes the intensity in the kitchen, the challenges in life, I have put myself on the back burner, and working with BetterHelp it has supported me in continuing my own self-work but also putting me back front and center in the game of being an effective leader, partner and all of the above.

Chef James: 35:38

So take that questionnaire. Once you do that, you go through that system and they filter those therapists that are fit for your specific needs. They get back to you, in most cases within 48 hours or less. You can book those therapy sessions at your leisure that fit your schedule, which is truly amazing, I can say as a chef and on the go and parent, it makes it very convenient. You could do those via the video chat, the instant message. Go to betterhelpcom, slash chefmassey, and you get the 10% off first month when you do that and in that link the questionnaire is there for you. So join me on sliding to the front burner, because we deserve it. Back to the episode. Is there any like product or produce like that you grow, that you really like. I mean, you're like man that's kind of fun to work with. I didn't realize I could do sweet and savory or anything like that.

Chef Madison: 36:26

I mean, I really love husk cherries. I love them. I just think, what a genius plant what you can get out of the flavors. You really do get the sweet, savory kind of notes there?

Chef James: 36:38

No, you do.

Farmer Jamie: 36:38

It's really Like the citrusy the cool thing about it is you can't find it in a lot of stores. No, no. It's like people don't know what it is.

Chef Madison: 36:44

Because harvesting those is Takes a lot of time. It's tough, yeah, yeah.

Chef James: 37:00

And so when people see them too. Yeah, well, it's kind of like a mini tomatillo, you know you're like trying to, you know, unhusk it and then you, it almost gets that tackiness, like them too.

Farmer Jamie: 37:06

They're in the same plant family. Oh, of course, thank you yeah, all right.

Chef James: 37:11

Well, maybe I went up a point or two. So well, that's cool they're, they're great to use.

Chef Madison: 37:16

Yeah great Jamie's arugula is extra spicy and delicious.

Jackson: 37:20

Oh really, oh cool Her radicchio varieties are extra purple and pink.

Chef Madison: 37:25

Oh, you're just good at what you do.

Jackson: 37:28

Yeah, it's so good.

Chef Madison: 37:29

She's growing a lot of edible flowers this season, which would be really fun for me. A lot of things we can do with food and beverage, oh, yeah. I mean I'll actually just list the whole farm if you, let me.

Chef James: 37:42

I would love that I mean Jack or Jackson. So do you guys?

Chef Madison: 37:45

do it.

Jackson: 37:47

No, it's actually cool to see this collab because it's like it's somebody who makes food, working with a person who you don't always see that no, no, it's pretty rare, right, right, it is, it is.

Chef James: 38:02

I mean especially, yeah, absolutely, it is Like usually you're working with a bunch of different people right, oh yeah, oh yeah, as a chef, I've been blessed with being here in the Berkshires and I would rotate farms in. You know I would rotate, you know, and even like with our seafood or anything you, you know, and even like with our seafood or anything you know, we put it up on the board. You know, this farm is this far away from the dining room in that direction. That's great. So, like, people tend to like that a lot, um, you know, and really you know, and that's what my goal will be when I do this season is to do, um, as many farms as I.

Chef James: 38:37

It's not easy because they're all amazing and to be able to get them in. And you know cause I did. You know we've done like meet the farmer dinner, stuff like that, but cause it's really about celebrating that farm. You know whether it's making honey and all 10 courses or five courses. How do you do that? If you're going to use those, like with the ground cherries, or you know how you're going to use those like with the ground cherries, or you know how are you going to use that across the menu, how fun it can be. You could puree in and make them into like a fruit roll-up kind of cool thing like an ice cream or topping a piece of steel head, you know, with a broken relish with that, because they're amazing or blistering them, or anyways. I'll stop now, no now.

Chef Madison: 39:19

No, it's exciting, it's fun to talk about.

Chef James: 39:21

But these are things like you know. You look at it and it's like how many ways can I use arugula?

Farmer Jamie: 39:26

Totally.

Chef James: 39:26

You know, and the other thing about the farms too, it's depending, I mean, because sometimes they turn it right back on their livestock, but like, if there's seconds, you know, like I've worked with a farm and said, hey, if you've got like onions, carrots and celery that are like banged up and whatever I'm doing, gallons of stock, so if you want to sell me that at a certain number, because and I want to go back to it, you said that was in the sense I feel we're conditioned with the perfect carrot, the perfect bell pepper, the, this, the that, it's all got to be averaged the length of you know, and we become kind of conditioned and spoiled in that aspect because you know this produce is, you know you can clean it up, trim it down and use it, but it just doesn't sell, well, you know.

Farmer Jamie: 40:15

So that's where the seconds kind of you know, yeah, there's a lot to say about that because, it's a reality that not everything looks like this perfect thing. And who created this concept of a perfect vegetable, of a perfect tomato, of a perfect carrot? Anyway, A lot of supermarkets. The produce has to reach a certain criteria to be like brought into the shelves, which is a huge problem in itself, but also the customer is now like when the farms say that the customer won't buy those things.

Farmer Jamie: 40:48

It's like where you've been conditioned to expect you know, a turn up to look like a certain.

Chef James: 40:54

Right, and you also have a. You have the seconds, or you know you end up overgrowing because you deal with pests and weather, and so is that five percent, ten percent, three percent overage, and then you have, you're dealing with what you produce, what it looks like. Is it sellable? If it's not sellable, it's turned back to the livestock. You know composting and all of that, but then you know you go into it and you know my question is is well, if, if there are those opportunities you know, could a school use that? Could there be an opportunity for someone to network with the farms and say, hey, you know, maybe we can pull all of these things together and one regional school could be the pilot for this program. School could be the pilot for this program. And you know the farms are, they're not making their great retail price that they need, but it's better than nothing, you know. Or they use it all for compost and whatever and that works for them.

Chef James: 41:50

But those are just thoughts in my mind that it's like we are kind of conditioned and spoiled in our country in some ways. You know, just like with the chicken breast, you want to go buy a chicken, a five to five to six pounder. I mean that's why they have those ranges of poundage, because you're going to get more accuracy with you know the breast size or the protein and this proportions, but it's still we're conditioned to that. Five, six ounce breast that were like oh, it's perfect.

Farmer Jamie: 42:19

And something we want to do is because I'm growing for madison like feet show people that what they're eating was a quote-unquote ugly food, yes, and how it tastes the same, and if it actually tasted delicious um and like nothing happened to them, like I feel like we should push it a step further and you know farms should get paid the same amount for that food yeah, yeah you know there's a difference between something that you know is moldy and you cut off versus something that right like a carrot, that is a weird shape, I feel like carrots.

Chef James: 42:55

You notice it the most because you go to the grocery store every carrot, yeah, oh yeah, it's like because you go to the grocery store and every carrot is like oh yeah, it's like right, you're at the farmer's market, dialed in. I think there's some level of opportunity to capture something.

Farmer Jamie: 43:05

Yeah, absolutely, there's like a lot of opportunities.

Chef James: 43:09

It's work for sure. Absolutely, it's a lot. That'd be kind of cool, I don't know, I mean. So there's the ground chairs, anything else I mean?

Farmer Jamie: 43:19

Well, it's hard, because it's an impossible, because I love every vegetable.

Chef James: 43:23

You have to.

Farmer Jamie: 43:24

So I mean I have deep affinity for certain vegetables. Really For example sugar snap peas are my spirit vegetable.

Chef James: 43:33

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Farmer Jamie: 43:34

Because I, you know, I actually was told by an old farm manager that my spirit vegetable was a sugar snap pea Because of my energy, and he said something about, like you know, taking the time to grow and then, once you, you know, once you blossom, it's so sweet and so great.

Jackson: 43:52

Oh, that's very cool.

Farmer Jamie: 43:54

And then I took a spirit vegetable quiz a few months later.

Chef James: 43:57

Okay.

Farmer Jamie: 43:58

And I got sugar snap pea.

Chef Madison: 44:00

Okay, no way. Sugar snap pea? Okay, no way. Undeniable, wow yeah.

Chef James: 44:05

Mine would probably be like, I don't know, like an heirloom tomato or something.

Chef Madison: 44:09

That's a great one.

Chef James: 44:10

A brandy one.

Farmer Jamie: 44:12

Brandy, one Delicious Absolutely Got me the quiz man.

Jackson: 44:16

Yeah, I know, I'm on it.

Chef James: 44:17

Yeah Well, you the quiz man. Yeah, I know I'm on it. Yeah well, you know it's funny growing, even on the indigenous side, when I had my restaurant, I did 21 of these three sisters gardens, so you know having those, and I did different, you know, corn varieties and and the squash and I had a hopi pale gray which I was surprised grew up here, but they're like massive, they are huge. I'm like where you going, buddy, like it. I had this whole thing, you know, ready to go and growing, and you know they kind of go where they want to, and you got to be like, okay, we got to get your little fingers back on this way, let's tie you back around, you know, because they'll just crawl everywhere. But I couldn't believe the size of those. But anyways, no, that's it, that's great. Yeah, love it.

Jackson: 44:56

So before, we wrap, just remind us where we can all connect with you guys.

Chef Madison: 45:00

Oh right, internet yeah, so find us on our website yep, which is dancing hyphen greenscom and you can go all the way to the bottom and sign up for our newsletter, and then you can also play around on our pages. We we talk about when and where we're hosting our shindigs. Um, we talk about our farming philosophy. We have a blog on there with letters from farmer jamie and we also have a those we admire page, where we're.

Chef Madison: 45:23

We're kind of highlighting it and shouting out all the the people that we've worked with and all of those that we just think are doing really, really cool oh yeah, um, and then instagram at dancing greens farm we're also on facebook and linkedin at dancing greens farm and we now have a TikTok at Dancing Greens Farm.

Farmer Jamie: 45:40

That's so great and also come to the farm.

Chef James: 45:43

Yeah, we need to do that.

Farmer Jamie: 45:45

Shoot us in the mail and I really want us to have not a completely open policy but I want people to come and drop in things.

Chef James: 45:58

I mean, it's like backstage VIP passes.

Farmer Jamie: 46:00

Right.

Chef Madison: 46:02

Really all you have to do is call Farmer Jamie's cell phone which is listed on our website. It's listed on our Google Maps profile. Okay, Just call and say when you want to come and she'll say yes and show you around.

Chef James: 46:13

Cool, that's awesome. I'd love that Field trip.

Farmer Jamie: 46:18

Yes, so this year we'll have our shindig schedule that's coming out soon, um, and then we'll have a um, our workshop schedule, um, and then also, if you're interested in a private, we do private so you can find that information on our website. And when we'll be at the west dock ridge farmer's market and okay, thank you selling at Tom Brazy at the Farm in New Marlboro his store as well. Yeah, I think that's everything so far. So far, yeah.

Chef James: 46:49

Nice.

Farmer Jamie: 46:50

And if anyone's interested in reaching out to us about a potential collaboration or anything too, we're always excited about that.

Chef James: 46:56

Oh, that's great. Okay, sounds good, all right. Well, thank you both for joining us here. This was awesome, lots of knowledge, and I look forward to like stopping by and seeing the passion, tasting the passion, all that good stuff.

Chef Madison: 47:09

Tasting the passion. Thank you all for what you do. It's awesome Make a t-shirt.

Farmer Jamie: 47:15

Tasting the passion. There you go, yeah, you go.

Chef James: 47:18

Nice, all right, well, take care, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, all right, everyone, that is a wrap. You can check us out if you like that. Subscribe Also the Instagram Chef Massey. Let's keep it simple, chefmasseycom. Have a good one. Bye for now.