Navigate - A Tower Life Center Podcast
Navigate is a discussion-based podcast designed to help us live our lives as followers of Jesus in a fallen and ever-changing world. In this discussion based format, we are diving into topics that will help to shape and form the framework of how we live our lives. Our goal is to help all of us navigate our lives by becoming more like Jesus.
Navigate - A Tower Life Center Podcast
White Hot Week 2 Discussion - What should a life led by the Holy Spirit look like?
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If God gave us His fire of the Holy Spirit in us, what could our lives look like? In this episode we discussed a life led by the Spirit and what happens as we seek to follow His leading in our lives.
Welcome to Navigate, a podcast discussion from Tower Life Center, where we talk about how to navigate life, living as a follower of Jesus in a fallen and ever-changing world. Let's join the discussion.
SPEAKER_01Hello. How are we, team?
SPEAKER_00Hey guys.
SPEAKER_01Hello. We are here.
SPEAKER_00We are here.
SPEAKER_01Happy mundul day. Or time of day. But either way.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's good. And we are in uh part two of a new series called White Hot.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh we talked about just the Holy Spirit and uh the power that the Holy Spirit has in our lives and that what we uh get to tap into through uh Jesus, his death, his resurrection, his ascension. Yeah, and he says it's best that I leave.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Which is kind of a wild concept. I know we think like, oh man, if I could just have Jesus here, that'd be so much better.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03Imagine that. Imagine being the disciples. He's like, it's best that I leave. Yeah. Well, I don't think you know best Jesus.
SPEAKER_01I was I heard a pastor say it one time though, like, okay, if Jesus were still here, um he would be easy to find because you would see crowds, thousands, yeah, millions gathered around him, especially in our world today. It'd be probably hard to get to him though, because you know, you'd have to buy a flight and it might not be where you want it to be. It could be thousands of dollars as well.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01You'd better have your list ready of all the things, you know. Yeah. So maybe it's best, maybe he was right. It's best that I leave so you have the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Helping you, protecting you.
SPEAKER_00Speaking of the Holy Spirit, what a great conversation that we had yesterday.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Kyle, you want to fill us in?
SPEAKER_03I'd rather not. Um no, if you were here yesterday, uh, and I say here, that means at church. And by yesterday, I mean on Sunday. Uh, I realize we're giving context clues that only matter for the exact moment we're in. Yes. So if you were at church this weekend, um the Sunday after Easter. Yeah. April 12th. Yes. Uh, it was a yeah, it was a mess. It was a mess if you remember.
SPEAKER_00It was just a little heavy.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, yeah, technology didn't work, um, which makes things hard. Uh, but obviously, as you know, as we would know as believers and followers that that the Bible says that we're not in a battle of flesh and blood, but we're in a battle uh against the powers and authorities of the unseen world. Yeah. And so we're in a spiritual battle, and there was probably um a spiritual battle going on yesterday.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Um because of all the good that happened with Easter and just life change and heart change that we've got and and even leading up to Easter, right?
SPEAKER_03Like there's been a lot of momentum. Yeah. And not just here at our church, uh in the church at large. Yeah. There's been a lot of momentum and um for sure. And the the enemy would be pushing back, right? And so um, as we as we begin to lean in, I mean, maybe the encouragement I would have um for you as a listener would be that maybe you weren't here, maybe you were, but you know, one person even said, Yeah, it did feel really spiritually heavy, but it I felt that before I got to church, I thought it was just me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I've heard that from a lot of people too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so as you are growing, as you are leaning in, listener, as we us in the room, understand there will be resistance. Yeah. Um, there will be spiritual resistance as you are uh leaning into the ways of the ways of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think that's a great opportunity for us to count that as joy too. Because when when we do see resistance, we know that the enemy knows what's going on here.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, not just here at TLC, but here the the big sea church. Um he sees the ground that um the Lord has and he's not happy about it. Yeah. So I think it's a great opportunity for us to see that as joy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And be excited about it.
SPEAKER_03I'm working on it.
SPEAKER_00I know. It's hard, I know.
SPEAKER_01For sure. I'm working on it. And turn that less like worry into like a worship or a prayer or that can be it's easier said than done for sure. But yeah, um, I think the more that we're aware of it, the more that we can turn that into to good, like you said.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, so anyways, that was the that was the state of the room this weekend. Um, technology not working, devil in the details, uh, mess of I we walked in this morning and I was like, you guys can decide what we talk about on the podcast. Clearly, me talking about it yesterday didn't work. I doubt me talking about it today will be great either. Um, and so yeah, we're gonna chew through it and we'll figure out. Uh we have some unique perspectives today, I think, because um I have no idea what I said because I was just limping along. Brad was upstairs uh serving in our third through fifth grade room. Amanda's probably watching me freak out, and I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I could just feel it all for you.
SPEAKER_03And Zach's in the back of the room trying to fix technology as I'm talking. So who knows if anybody has any concept of what was actually talked about.
SPEAKER_00But hey, thanks for your humility and admitting that and uh showing us that it's not all uh rainbows and butterflies when you're up there.
SPEAKER_03It is most certainly not.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I just proof of the spirit is that you don't know what you said, but what you said came off really well. Right.
SPEAKER_03Oh, good, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_03Turns out the Holy Spirit's not limited by technology, only Todd was. Nope.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think the enemy knew what this message was about, um, talking about the Holy Spirit and just the power that this message has within it. And I think that he didn't like that either.
SPEAKER_03So let me gather us all now that people are sufficiently aware of the mess that yesterday was. Welcome in again. Yeah. And uh if you stopped listening and zoned your us out, welcome back. Uh, and let me just get us all on the same page. So on Easter, week one of White Hot, we talked about uh these two guys on the road to Emmaus, and after they had the experience with Jesus post-resurrection, they said, Man, didn't our hearts burn within us uh because of the time we spent with Jesus and what he uh told us about through the scriptures. And so we ended week one kind of just challenging people. Man, are are our hearts burning within us because of what Jesus did? Right. Right, because of the death and resurrection, because of the time we get to spend with him. Like, are we burning within because of Jesus? And then we took that this week and kind of transferred the discussion from this idea that um this idea that that Jesus and just the scriptures and just this time with him, right, is what burns within us. But now we understand because the Bible's clear that the Lord is fire, he gave us the Holy Spirit in the form of fire. And so what we did was we unpacked this weekend what does a life look like? I think the way I asked the question uh is if I have the fire, right? If I have been given the fire of the Holy Spirit, what should my life look like? And now some of you are like, I I don't know, I'm not tracking. Maybe I missed one of the weeks uh in Acts chapter 2, verse 1 through 4. This is where we see that on the day of Pentecost, all the believers were meeting together in one place. Suddenly there was a sound from heaven like a roaring, uh mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. Then here's where we see it what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them, and everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit. So there's a lot of there's a lot of different things that we have to unpack in this. Um, and one of the main things we have to unpack is this concept that on Pentecost, we may not know what Pentecost is, but on Pentecost, that would have been when God descended from heaven in the form of fire, thousands of years before, to give Moses the Ten Commandments, right? And now instead of just descending on a mountain or on a place, thousands of years later, God descended on the followers in the form of fire through the Holy Spirit that was now inside each of them. It says that they were filled with the Holy Spirit. And so now if fire is given, right, through the form of the Holy Spirit, the question we have is what should my life look like? Like if if I'm a believer, if I'm a follower of Jesus, if I if it is better, in fact, as Brad said, that that the Holy Spirit would come and Jesus would go, right, then what should my life look like? That's the question we have to chew through now as followers, and that's what we spent our time trying to discuss uh yesterday. Yeah. Um and so we we outline there's three different things that that uh a follower would somebody filled with the Holy Spirit, somebody who has the fire in them, three different things that our life should look like. And so we'll go one by one and um we can we can kind of chew through it at uh each one as we go through it. Okay, so the first one is the spirit produces fruit. And so as we talked about this, the concept of this was that if I have the spirit, the fire, that there should be fruit that comes out of me. Right? Like there should be new things that are coming out of me based off of how I act. This is this is about, and as we talked about the end of the service, our mission statement, is becoming all in followers. This is about who are we becoming. Yeah. Right. And so the easy uh the easy place to go scripturally, and then we can talk about it, is Galatians chapter 5, verse 22 and 23. The Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our life love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. And so if we have the Holy Spirit, He's going to produce those in our lives. Right? That's a mark of a believer, that's a mark of somebody who's filled with the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think some people might ask, like, well, how do I know if I'm if he's leading me? How do I know what his voice sounds like? How do I how do I know? I think we gotta start there. Um and just even in this, like, how how is that fruit produced? And it's genuinely from spending and commu spending time with him and communion with him. Um spending quiet time, spending time free of distraction with the Lord. Um I think that's a really great way to s to start discerning his voice, to start hearing his voice, so that you know what that sounds like. Um I just feel like that's a question that a lot of people have asked or have asked recently, like, how do I know it's him?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. And I think that there's there is familiarity in knowing the voice. Um, but I think we can find that familiarity uh in a couple places in Calatians chapter five, like where we can start to learn it. So the first one is and we talked about it a little bit yesterday, I think, but like the Holy Spirit is the one who produces those fruit in our life. Right? Like it's not us producing them because we it's not like we said, Hey, you know what? I'm going to be now, I am more loving.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I'm a follower of Jesus. We should be more loving as a result of following Jesus, but it's not because we did something to be more loving or more kind or more joyful. Right? It says that the Holy Spirit produces those.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. As we read his word and get familiar with what his word says.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And as we do what it says six verses earlier in Galatians chapter five, uh, Paul writes, so I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. Like, think about it. How often do we There's two things I would ask us, and I want you guys to speak into this, so be ready to kind of help me chew through this, but because I this is not something I've talked about on Sunday for sure. Is how often would we look at our lives and say, number one, the Holy Spirit's guiding my life? And how often, number two, do we realize that it is a battle for us to let him? Because Paul says, let the Holy Spirit guide your life. Yeah, he's not ripping the wheel out of your hands and he's driving. Like, you gotta get out, pull the car over, get out of the car, like surrender. Let him take the driver's seat, let him guide. Right? Like, so those there's two levels there. Number one is is he guiding? Number two is how much are we fighting them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was gonna say when we like step into that initial relationship, I feel like something that always comes to my mind, and I say it I feel like over and over again, even on this podcast, but just like the awareness piece that we start to have, like, man, this is an area that you know, I think when we're not a aware of any spiritual aspect of our life, we can just go through the motions and think, I'm okay, like I'm fine. Yeah, like or like this thing doesn't bother me. Maybe it's what I'm choosing to watch or what I fill my time with. Yeah. Because we are just consumed in selfishness by nature. And at first, you know, I think back to like early on, and you know, before I started walking with the Lord, like it was just what is in this for me? Maybe it's like as I'm in high school dating somebody, what's in it for me? Right. I'm going on a trip, what's in it for me? Yeah, I'm going out to eat, what's in it for me? Yeah, yeah. Not right.
SPEAKER_03Hopefully some chips and salsa.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, hopefully some chips and salsa. Come on, so I sleep with Chewy's. But it's like, um, what how what am I getting out of this? Yeah. Is there any gain for and I think the more that like then as we're like as I started to understand what it looks like to have a relationship with Jesus and accepted Jesus into my life, that starts to shange. And now these um things are being produced in us, but that's the hard part too, is we can't expect um unbelievers to act like believers. Right. And so when they see this fruit in us, I think that's when they kind of are like, wow, like why are you being gentle in this scenario when naturally, you know, I would be flipping out. Yeah. Yeah. Or why how are you practicing self-control when like, why don't just indulge?
SPEAKER_00Or why do you have so much humility? Why are you admitting your faults?
SPEAKER_01So I think in that it's just a good reminder that there's a lot of people in our life, in our um workplace and at the store that will be around that maybe don't yet have accepted that gift. So then it's like the lack of awareness isn't there unless we present it to them a little bit.
SPEAKER_00We have to model it first. Yeah. It's a responsibility to to model that every day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And it's in different circumstances that you know are gonna allow us to put those into practice a little more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think the more that we put them into practice, we're like, this is this is something that I the Lord is working in me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um I mean, it reminds me of the first scripture that we um had that you shared with us on Sunday, 2nd Corinthians 3.18. So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. So for us or for anyone that does have the Holy Spirit is walking with the Holy Spirit, we can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. Like you're saying, like we need to be able to see what he's doing and reflect that glory of the Lord to others around us so that then they can have that veil removed as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Cause I am reminded in the midst of all that too, whether people believe it or not, like they are created in the image of God. Yeah, so I think there's something in each of us, whether they believe in God or not, that they're longing for something that hasn't yet been like truly satisfied.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And so yeah, back to that scripture, like when it is revealed, like, ah man. I think that's when like freedom is initially like the response. Like, man, I feel like just this weight is yeah, no longer the one that I have to carry.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Um but yeah, it can be so challenging.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but he gets the glory for that, and we always point people back to his glory in everything.
SPEAKER_03But but why is it challenging is probably the thing we need to spend just a couple minutes talking about. Is like, why is it so hard? Sure. Right. And Galatians 5 outlines between verse 16 where he says, So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Right, because then he says, Then you won't be able to do what your sinful nature craves. Okay. Then we have six verses in between that and verse 22 and 23, where he lists the Holy Spirit producing fruit. And what he outlines is that there's this challenge we have between our sinful nature, our sinful desires, our flesh, and all the things that the Spirit will produce in our lives. And I think the thing that we need to understand is that only through submitting to the Holy Spirit, only through surrendering, only through allowing him to lead, like giving him the driver's seat and say, You do you lead will all of those things be produced? Because it is, to your point, it's a challenge.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's like, yeah, I can see the glory of God, but how do I now reflect it? Is only by not just looking at it, but allowing him to work in my life because I have to understand that I have a sinful nature, which is the opposite of loving, joyful, kind, good, faithful, gentle, self-control, patient, and whatever other one I might have missed.
SPEAKER_00Don't bring in patience again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I forgot that yesterday during service, and some yeah, people weren't happy about that either. Like, well, hey, welcome to the party. I'm not happy with how the day I have to get my fingers out when I do this.
SPEAKER_00I know, literally. Which one am I missing?
SPEAKER_03I got it all. Yeah. And so I think it's just like understanding that in the surrender of our lives over to the leading of the Holy Spirit, that it's not just like this one-time thing that's really simple and easy. It's this consistent thing that's really hard because we all have a sinful uh flesh that desires things that are opposite from what the spirit desires.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's not like a light bulb or snap the fingers. Like while I got the spirit, hey, everything's yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Rainbows and unicorns. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. You know, we did that series, I don't remember if it's been a couple ago, but where we went through all the fruits of the spirit. Yeah. And that was really good. On here on the podcast. Yeah. And it was good to go through all that and how like if you have each of those, or if you have three of those, it's pretty hard to be negative. Yeah, and they all kind of yeah, you can't really have one without the other. Right. Either. Yeah. Yeah. The verse the Lord's ang slow to anger. Like if you are slow to anger and you can think a little bit and like process what's going on, like have some self-control. Yeah. It makes it so much easier to discern what God's trying to lead you to. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And or the spirit saying, is there a better way you can say that before you say that right now? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like And I think that goes back to the awareness piece too that Brad's talking about. The Holy Spirit gives us that awareness piece, and we choose to either fight him on it or to submit to him on it. Where it's like, okay, yeah, you're right, God. There it is again. I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose different this time. Right.
SPEAKER_03And there different is is a good word. There's this old versus new, there's this flesh versus spirit. There's a massive difference in what we want to live, not even want to, what are the way that our flesh wants to live and the way that the spirit wants to live in us. And so the way we kind of kept that part of the conversation on Sunday was this idea that the fire burns away who I used to be and purifies me into who God's calling me to be. Like it's this process of purification and burning, and like if it if the Holy Spirit really is a fire, he's probably gonna burn away some of my selfishness to produce in me gentleness and kindness and love. He's gonna burn away some of my sinful impurities and idolatry and all of those things over time so that then he can replace it with the fruit of the spirit. But it's it's this burning away of the old and allowing the new to begin to now walk in the spirit.
SPEAKER_00That reminds me of like wildfires. You think about just how it burns away everything, but then that can be some of the most fertile soil after something has been burned away, and then it allows. House room for um you know fertile ground, which is really cool.
SPEAKER_02Well purification, white hot you keep using the you gotta heat metal up until it's moldable. Yeah, when you're gonna purify anything, any kind of metal, any kind of metal, you heat it up until it's moldable and all the impurities either burn off or they you know they become something else, they float to the top where they can be skimmed off, they can be purged, that you can get rid of what you don't want and keep what you do want.
SPEAKER_03I think so there's this purifying process, but then I think what you're talking about is also what in my research I haven't learned at all yet, but there's this process of refining.
SPEAKER_02Refining, yes.
SPEAKER_03And so they're refining out, and I think for calling a refinery. That's right. And that's why some of us I think can be like, I don't like purification, but I really don't like refining. Yeah. Right? Like purification makes a little bit of sense of like, all right, I probably shouldn't watch that, do that, think that, say that, treat people that way, respond that way.
SPEAKER_00But then the execution of that.
SPEAKER_03But then like the refinement, so like what what is the thing that's produced and refined out of that? Yeah. It's like, oh, so now if I can't do that, then I have to have self-control.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the pruning part is not the fun part.
SPEAKER_02I've never been in a refinery that's air conditioned and felt comfortable. I've never been in one at all. It's always uncomfortable. Yeah. So being refined is an uncomfortable process, but yeah, good.
SPEAKER_00But the fruit that comes on the other side of it is always uh so valuable, so good.
SPEAKER_01And I think the Lord uses his children to help in that process of you know, I think about like, okay, what's one of the hardest things that like uh in life can sometimes be people? Right. And then what's one of those Sometimes what's one of the things that in this life often brings you the most joy? Yeah, yeah, people. Yep. So and then it's kind of just like that um piece too, where you know it's so important that with having the Holy Spirit, we have people in our life where they can help refine us, and maybe they going back to the aware word, like they give us awareness of that, and then the Holy Spirit, I feel like maybe even sometimes through their words, yeah, be like, okay, I never thought of this before. I didn't know that was a problem. And now I start feeling, oh wow, I I sense the spirit driving that through me. Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think a really big piece of that, Brad, is um we have to be careful not to fall into the spirit of offense um when we have people that God has placed around us to show us, like, hey, maybe don't do that. Are you aware that you spoke that way to your friend or to your spouse or your kid? Or are you aware of what you're not doing here? Or um, but I think for us to not automatically choose offense and to choose submission to the Holy Spirit and to recognize it as an opportunity rather than something that's negative. But for us to go into the opportunity of, oh wow, this is time for me to commune with the Lord and this is time for me to be refined. Um, maybe the delivery wasn't great from the other person, that's okay. They're they're trying to follow Jesus too. They're trying to follow what the Holy Spirit's leading them in. Um, but I think just not choosing offenses. Yeah, really.
SPEAKER_01I think that definitely comes with the maturity of our spiritual walk in because I know there was definitely a time in my life, even like in my marriage, yeah, where I would be um very much offendable. I still think that didn't take constructive criticism well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But when you when it's used as like an opportun when you think like, oh man, like what is the Lord teaching me in this?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01Um and I think it's you know important that you also communicate that well with those trusted individuals. Yeah. And if it is something that does offend you, talk through that a little bit with them in a loving fashion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it's as easy as like, hey, that kind of offended me. But I appreciate it. I appreciate what you said. And I know it was probably hard for you to say that too. Like you have to think about the other side of it, somebody bringing something to you that the Holy Spirit's laid on their heart. It's not always easy for them to step into obedience on that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So recognize the other side of it too, and just say, like, hey, yeah, I I have some offense in my heart that like I need to deal with, but thank you for what you said. I'm gonna go pray about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Offense and condemnation kind of go back one in hand in hand. Hand in hand, one together.
SPEAKER_00Yes, they do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's kind of like the spot here where the spirit brings conviction. And then another part of um what Pastor Kyle talked on was a life of following Jesus isn't always about affirmation of our ways, it's about alignment with his ways. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So let's let's we as humans love that.
SPEAKER_00But of course.
SPEAKER_02It's not my way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'm not affirmed as there's a better way.
SPEAKER_00My way's not the best way.
SPEAKER_03So the spirit produces fruit. Number two, the spirit gives gifts. Okay. The other thing that if we're gonna be people who are filled with the spirit, we should be operating out of the gifts that He's given us. Yeah. And He gives us all sorts of different gifts. There's a bunch of different places in Scripture Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, and 1 Peter 4. All of these different places in Scripture talk about different spiritual gifts. The thing I would encourage you with is just the truth of 1 Corinthians 12, which is the there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit, the fire in us, is the source of them all. Then in verse 7, it says a spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other out. Right. So no matter what your gift is, it should be used to help each other out, to build up the body.
SPEAKER_00Um which I think is such a beautiful picture when you look at the local church, the little sea church. Like we we all have a different type of gifting here in this church, and what's the point of it? So that we can help each other. And I think when we can all grasp that piece of it, wow, think of how impactful we'll be for the kingdom.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00When we can all walk into that.
SPEAKER_02Right. And so that's where big or small that gift is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's only it's only big or small in the eyes of humans.
SPEAKER_02That's what I mean. Yeah. That's how I should yeah. No matter how big or small you think it is. Yes. Everything, every single thing that somebody is important.
SPEAKER_00Well, 100%.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like, have you ever tried balancing if imagine balancing if you didn't have toes. Nobody wants to be the toe of the body, but you can't balance without it. Yeah. Right? Like nobody wants to be the thumb, but you can't do a whole lot of things without your thumbs.
SPEAKER_00You can't do anything without your hands. Yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_03Well, you can walk without your hands.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_03You can talk.
SPEAKER_00I just meant like you can't. Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_03I'm interested to know what you think hands do.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um But no, so we have to operate out of these gifts, understanding that no matter what gift it is, the same spirit is the source of them all. And no gift is genuinely no gift is better or worse than another gift. Right.
SPEAKER_00I think it would be cool too in the body, like in in our congregation here, if we started having conversations like that where it's like, hey, I see this gifting in you. Do you see this? Like, are you aware of this? Calling giftings out in each other and just saying, like, hey, I think you're really good at that. Have you dove into that? Like, are you how are you using that gifting for the church or in your business? Or tell me more about that.
SPEAKER_03Like, I think we need to be a far more encouraging group of people as Christians for sure.
SPEAKER_00Which is hard because we're all selfish, myself included. Like, it is hard to encourage when you're you're self-focused.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. And I think we can be encouraging, but I don't want us to and we should be a hundred percent. The Bible's clear. We should encourage and edify and build each other up. Yeah. I also want us to understand through scripture what the spiritual gifts are and what are things that aren't spiritual gifts that you can be good at. Like you can be good at things that aren't spiritual, like aren't the spiritual gifts.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Right now, you might be able to trace them back and say, okay, well, one talks about service. And so then we can say, hey, like, you're, Amanda, you're really good at hosting, which you are. But I don't know that I see, and I'm not saying it's not, that hosting is an actual spiritual gift, but serving is. So, or it's like, well, you're really good at picking out making your kids look cute. That's that's fine. That's not a spiritual gift, but you should you should tell people that. That's nice. Like, that's encouraging.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_03And then you can tie it back to maybe something that might be a spiritual gift. I just want us to be like, man, you're so athletic. You're really good at working out. What a spiritual gift.
SPEAKER_00I see.
SPEAKER_03And it's like, no, it's not. No. Yeah. You're taking care of your body.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You're disciplined. You're whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think, sorry, I think I should expand on that. Like maybe when we are encouraging others, how are we encouraging others to impact the kingdom? And to give God glory. Um, because there's all kinds of worldly compliments that we can give people, right? That's not what I'm talking about. And I know you're talking about being incredibly encouraging so that we can build up and edify the local church body so that we can fulfill the mission that God has set before us.
SPEAKER_03A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00That's where I was going with that.
SPEAKER_03No, I agree. I know you know that. I'm just like, I think so many times we can be like, man, you must have the spiritual gift of taking pictures. And it's like, well, that's not a spiritual, that in and of itself isn't a spiritual gift listed in scripture. No. Now, the Lord could have used one of the spiritual gifts listed in Scripture to cultivate a passion in you for taking pictures. Right. And now you're gonna go into your point, you're gonna use that for the kingdom. You're gonna impact families through that, you're gonna do whatever, you're gonna serve at church through that way.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I just like it's I've seen it to where people want to say anything's a spiritual gift. The minute you're good at something, you like you tie your shoes so fast. And it's like Velcro. You know, it's just like, well, hang on. That's encouraging people. Sure. If you think they tie their shoe fast, tell them. Just don't call it a spiritual gift. That's my point.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think part of the conversation too, when you are calling people higher, um, you can say, like, hey, I see you're really talented in this area. Like, for instance, one of our friends did um video for Easter.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And for me, I shared a testimonial piece behind it. I'm like, hey, thanks so much for doing that because this person reposted it, and I know majority of their sphere of influence are either atheists or just agnostic or don't necessarily believe much of anything. So your ability to take video and put together a reel has now impacted a whole different sphere of influence that otherwise wouldn't have been impacted. So I I think that's more what I'm saying. Like, let's encourage each other to start doing things that really impact the kingdom.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00You know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because would you say somebody um that is un unaware of maybe their spiritual gift? How would you encourage them to would it just be kind of like, hey, what do you enjoy doing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then how do you apply that to How do we use that for the kingdom?
SPEAKER_03Or how would you build kind of some I'd say go make a list of what the Bible says are spiritual gifts. Um eventually get to what you enjoy doing, but I don't care more about what you enjoy doing than what the Bible says. For sure. Sure. So let's go and see what does the Bible say about what spiritual gifts are. Now we need to say, okay, which of these spiritual gifts do you feel like you actually understand what they mean? And which do you not?
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Then we say, okay, now that these are what this the Bible lists out in spiritual gifts. Now out of all of these, you can start to say, hey, which which are the most life-giving to you? Which have you seen you just partake in naturally? Look back at the last year. When you look back at the last year, what what are the out of all of these things, what are the ones that you're like, oh, I didn't even realize that I wasn't trying to use a spiritual gift. I w I just happen to have a people over a lot. Right? So maybe serving is the way that that maybe serving's a spiritual gift that I would have, right? Like based off of when I look at my life. Um because I I don't know. I mean, I think that if we are allowing the Holy Spirit to lead, then we're probably going to enjoy using our spiritual gifts.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But if the Holy Spirit's not leading, then I then what you enjoy doing is maybe in the wrong place.
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Um so it's really like, okay, here's what the Bible says. What is your life naturally like? What what what do you do in your life naturally that would align with these?
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then also understand that the Holy Spirit can build up and um give you giftings as you pray for them. Like that I think that's important to understand too. Um where maybe you don't know your spiritual giftings, and I think that's something that you take to prayer and you just say, like, hey God, reveal this to me. Like, what have you placed on the inside of me that I can use for you and your glorification and your kingdom? Um, or what are some areas that I might be doing today that are quite self-glorifying? How can I flip that from self-glorifying to God glorifying um to make an impact in your kingdom?
SPEAKER_03And there's a lot of different ways that we can use the same gift to make an impact for the kingdom. Because kind of one of the things we said about this was while the fruit is about maturity, gifts are about mission. And like we look at Brad and we're like, Brad, man, you can sing, you can lead others in worship. You got that gift, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Now, you can do that on a stage on Sunday mornings, or you can go upstairs in the third through fifth grade classroom and say, Hey, we're gonna cultivate a a an attitude of worship up here. And I'm gonna love on these kids through like I'm gonna use that gift in this area where some people are like, ah man, like as a vocalist who leads worship, this is the box that I would stand in. Where you're like, I'll go up to a different box that's a chaotic box that's absolutely wild, and we're gonna do it up there. Yeah. Right. And so if it's about mission, then oftentimes I think it's less about the sp like the specificity of the gift and where I use it and how, yeah, and my preference, and just say, hey, really, the highest preference and the highest thing I'm most passionate about is the mission. Now, I've been given this gift not to use for my own glory, but to use for God's glory. So I can use it anywhere, yeah, doing whatever. And it might not look like the way that I thought it would look.
SPEAKER_00I think that's a big piece of it. Um, not looking like the way that we thought it would look, and just being okay with the humility to come and say, like, I just have a willing heart, Lord. Like, use me wherever. Yeah. And he's gonna place people around you that can call out that gifting and say, like, hey, this would be really great. And we're also looking for leaders to lead worship at church in the younger kids area. Would you be willing? And it's like, oh, hadn't thought about that before. Sure.
SPEAKER_01And I think too, like, just putting yourself in those scenarios and it being recognized, like, hey, this is something that I enjoy. Yeah. Well, man, I want to do this more. Yeah. Or maybe you serve up in, you know, up in the kids' ministry and you're with the infants and you're like, okay, that maybe this isn't where I'm supposed to be. Yeah. Go so try something else.
SPEAKER_00I want to teach three-year-olds. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Try and that's I don't think you have to be a ashamed that that isn't where you are at.
SPEAKER_00Try different areas and trial and error.
SPEAKER_01Don't don't be like, well, that that wasn't for me, so now I'm just gonna not do anything. I'm gonna pull out the clean. The flip side though, like, I agree with you 90%.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. 10% of me is like, but none of us have an inherent desire to want like our we have a flesh. Sure. So if I had a rough morning and I show up up in kids' ministry or I'm making coffee or like and it didn't go the exactly the way that I want, and I didn't just love it, then I'm just gonna say, well, that's not for me. Yeah. Well, no, it's not for your selfish flesh.
SPEAKER_00That'd be like Kyle kicking the can after Sunday and saying, Oh, this just isn't for me.
SPEAKER_03So it's not for me anymore. No, it's like, okay, that didn't work the way I was hoping it would work, right? Like, and I'm not saying that everybody should have to be in my point is we have to understand that while the spirit produces fruit and the spirit gives us gifts, we also have a flesh that produces the opposite fruit in our life. And who wants us to be really self-focused. And never in serving and using our gifts, and like never is it like this is always butterflies and rainbows. No matter where it is. It could be you could love the infant room or you could love wherever you're serving, whatever you're doing, 95% of the time. But 5%, you might be like, that was the worst Sunday ever.
SPEAKER_01And then going back to the spiritual warfare piece of you have that selfishness, that's right, you're thinking about these things, and then he attacks that. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like, oh my goodness, I feel that this is doubt and insecurity and all that.
SPEAKER_01If I have 80 kids come to something, and then the next week 10 come, I'm like, whoa.
SPEAKER_00What am I doing?
SPEAKER_01What am I really supposed to be here? They hate me. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. Uh and they don't, yeah, Satan does. Yeah, so it's just like how he can get in those little yeah, nooks and crannies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Nooks and crannies, not nick. I was gonna look at the crazy.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say crooks and crevices, so you you hit it better.
SPEAKER_03All the things he gets everywhere. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the last one. So the last one is that so the spirit uh produces fruit, gives gifts, but then the last one is brings conviction. Uh Brad foreshadowed that and kind of talked about that a little bit, but the Holy Spirit's gonna bring conviction. So while fruit and gifts are an outward thing about how do we present ourselves to others, not in a um not in a like perception management way, but just like they're outward-facing things. Right? This conviction is an internal thing. Uh and I think that what we have to understand is that Jesus was clear that when he said it's better that I go, I'm gonna send you an advocate or a helper or a comforter. He listed the three things that's in John chapter 16. Uh and in verse 8, he says, when he comes. So when this helper, this advocate, this comforter comes, he will convict the world of its sin. So talk to us about what we're doing wrong, where we're missing the mark. He's gonna convict us of God's righteousness, so what does hitting the mark look like? And then he's going to uh convict us of the coming judgment, which means that there is a real eternity, that there real there is a real heaven and hell, that there are real standards, you know, like all of that. He's gonna come and convict us of that. And we oftentimes can think, man, like that seems harsh. Why would a loving God convict us of all of that? Um, and which is why then Brad's point earlier was one of the slides we put up was a life of following Jesus isn't about affirmation of our ways, but of alignment with his.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03The struggle we have is we are naturally unaligned with the ways of God through our flesh and our s through our flesh and living in this world, right? We're naturally unaligned. Jesus died, shed his blood, rose again for the payment of our unalignment, and to give us the opportunity to be aligned, which is righteousness.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Now, the only way we can live in righteousness is through the word of God and the spirit of God. Right. And so the spirit of God is going to remind us of the things we've read in the Word of God, who's gonna help us apply the Word of God, but our flesh wants to be affirmed. But the Spirit wants to help align us with God's ways. Um and so go ahead.
SPEAKER_00And I think to know God's ways, and I know I feel like I'm probably belaboring the point, but to know God's ways, we have to read his word. We have to know what it says.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00And I know there are some people that love God's word and are in it all the time, and then there are other people who are like, I'm just really busy. I haven't opened my Bible in four weeks, and it's like, okay, but let's let's try like let's make this a year where we're trying to stay in the word every single day. Let's let's familiarize ourselves with truth because the world is constantly deforming us from truth.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we have to make sure that what we are putting into our brains and our hearts is true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think just to highlight on that part before we wrap up is just I think sometimes when you people hear that, they're like, Man, I I'm bad at reading. Sure. I don't enjoy reading. Sure. I don't think it's almost like there's different ways to read the Bible. Yeah. And like maybe it is like more of you're reading a a larger ch like like a the story format. But then also maybe it's more of like meditating on that verse.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um and how how am I remembering that verse throughout my day? Or maybe it's a a chapter a day. Maybe it's when you can have the Bible read to you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You can have the Bible sang to you in your favorite type of music.
SPEAKER_01So finding that like it's not just you sitting there and being bored with God's word. Yes. That's just like how find a way that you enjoy it.
SPEAKER_00That's good.
SPEAKER_01Um enjoy being in it. And there's different ways that you can like enjoy spending time with Jesus. Yeah. Don't let it be a chore.
SPEAKER_03This is a good point you two brought up, and I I just wouldn't would lovingly encourage you that there is no excuse for not reading. And why say reading, I'm gonna say let me choose reading, listening. There is no excuse for not spending time in the Word of God. And if you are making excuses, then I would ask you why. Like before you try to figure out, well, okay, how would I rather spend time in the Word than read? What's the best point? Well, if you're making excuses, and you know you are, because we all do with random things, yeah, is why? Like, why are you why why?
SPEAKER_00Why and it doesn't mean you're a bad person. No, right? Like we live in a world that is incredibly inundated with distractions, and a lot of it is just like I don't have time. That's the most common one I hear. I just don't have time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And okay, I understand that.
SPEAKER_03So what what can we start taking away from I don't understand that because you have time for everything else?
SPEAKER_00Well, but that's what I'm saying. In our minds, we naturally go to like I have to add this in. This is one more thing I have to add in. So my question would be what can we take out of your inundated life? What scrolling can we take out? What shows that you're watching can we take out? What things that you're listening to can we take out so that we can make room for God in our life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, I think you're I think you're right. I think we're saying the same thing. But if we just think that it's like, well, you really don't have time, so we're gonna swap some things out, we have to we all have to understand that before we even get to that, like this is a lack of prioritization. Like it's not important to you.
SPEAKER_02Like the it's the prior the priority scale.
SPEAKER_00Like yeah, what am I prior to?
SPEAKER_02I'm too busy. I don't have five more minutes I can give today. Okay. Number one, that's probably not true. And let's see what you know, what are what are you spending your time on through the day? Like is there a game, a news app, something? Like find a spot on your phone that you go to all the time. Yeah, whether it's news, games, social media, whatever it is. I don't remember who it was. It might have been Brad or Garrett, I can't remember, but they're like, Yeah, put the Bible app in that spot on your phone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like wherever your muscle memory goes, you're gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02I think I've heard Brad say that before.
SPEAKER_00How much more you open up your Bible? Yeah, go to your screen time and check it out.
SPEAKER_03I do agree with you. I mean, it is it is a it's a it's a swap. At the end of the day, I've got a swap. Yeah. But if we only think, well, it's just swapping, instead of I've got to reprioritize the things that I view as important and yeah, impactful in my life.
SPEAKER_00Like that's a great point.
SPEAKER_03And so we I think it's the practical the practicality of it is put the Bible out there, swap, look at your schedule. Where can I take something out? Because we can't just constantly, to your point, add. Yeah. We can't just add, add, add.
SPEAKER_00Well, and the Bible and God, Jesus, Holy Spirit is not an add-on. He is the foundation, he is the centerpiece, he is the um the thing that we need to base everything else in our lives around. So yeah, report wow, I can't say that word. Reprioritation.
SPEAKER_03Well, you even have an Asian on it. Yeah, this is going off the rails fast because we've got we're at 48 minutes-ish. There you go. Um, let's let's I the only thing I want to end this with, and maybe we should spend more time, maybe not. You guys can tell me if we need to spend more time. Um But this is easy to hear all of this and hear it through the lens of condemnation. Yeah. Of shame. And so we spent time on Sunday talking about how number one, there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus, but there is conviction. Right? And so we have to understand the difference between conviction and condemnation. Yes, yeah. Conviction is from the Holy Spirit. We we just saw that, but condemnation is not from God. So conviction is gonna be gentle but clear. Conviction is gonna be about the issue, like this thing in my life needs to change. Yeah. Condemnation is gonna feel accusatory, it's gonna feel heavy. It's gonna feel like you are the problem, not the issue, but you. Yeah. Um and so the way that the way that we kind of summarized all of it is conviction puts its finger on the problem but keeps its arm around you. Condemnation doesn't point to what you did, but it tries to define who you are by making your activity your identity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so is there anything you guys want to talk about with that that is um and I know that could be a rabbit hole, but is there something that you guys feel like you'd want to encourage the listeners with? Is there something that you feel like you'd want to just talk about for a few seconds or a minute or whatever where you're uh encouraging the listeners in that?
SPEAKER_02I think those slides were great yesterday to break down what both so maybe I don't know if we can get them in the show notes, but whatever, like to put the the way you have it, like the where the source is, what the tone is, the focus, the effect, and the outcome of each. Yeah. Was so much clearer, especially when they were side by side there yesterday. It was so much easier to discern exactly okay, how what's the tone number one? What's the tone of what's coming? Yeah. Whether it's coming out of somebody else's mouth or the feeling you have.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like, what is that tone? Yeah. Is it from God or not? Yeah. Number one. And that's probably the easiest for me. That's what stuck. Like, what's the tone of this? Yeah. The tone is not okay, the way I'm feeling is not from God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like that that's this is I'm feeling condemned, not and hopefully those slides serve as a resource because our flesh might be offended. Right. We get convicted by the Holy Spirit. It is conviction, but our flesh is offended. Yeah. So now we have to go back. No, that was gentle and clear.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It was about the issue. It's not about my identity. Right. And so it's like, okay, maybe I don't love it.
SPEAKER_02I heard somebody say you can you can choose to be offended. Yes. Being offended is a choice. Yes. You're not being offended. Right. Somebody's not offending you.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_02Um you're choosing to be offended.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00For sure. Yeah. I think too, just understanding that conviction leads you to repentance. Condemnation leads you to shame. Um, and just understanding the the vast difference in that. That conviction is um something that leads you into repentance that will lead you into freedom. So you said repentance, freedom, and growth. And then condemnation is shame, hiding, stuckness.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Where you can't grow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I think being able to discern between those two things is really important too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you could work backwards, but if you feel stuck.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Why?
SPEAKER_02You're feeling stuck because you're feeling condemned. It's not conviction.
SPEAKER_03You're hiding. Work backwards.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Bring it to the light.
SPEAKER_03And I don't want to remind you, listener, that God doesn't convict you to shame you. Yeah. Right. He convicts you to shape you.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_03Right. This we have to keep all of this in the context of the back half of the verse Amanda read earlier, 2 Corinthians 3.18. Which is that we get to reflect the glory, right? But the reason is the Spirit who is the Lord will continue to shape us, will continue to morph us, will transform us, form us into the image of Jesus. And so the reason that we're being convicted by the Spirit of God is not because He's like, Well, now, you know, I really want to shame you. Yeah. He's doing it because he said, through the conviction, I want you to be shaped more and more and more into the image.
SPEAKER_00Because he loves you. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Anything else on that? No?
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Brad, do you want to pray for us before we get out of here?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Let's pray. God, we just thank you so much for we get to do life with you. We know that, Father, you are with us and for us in this life. And I pray that as we think about those different things, as we don't have to live in shame or we don't have to hide or feel stuck because that is why you sent your son Jesus to go to the cross and to bear those things for us. And uh we're just so thankful for that. Lord, we're undeserving, but yeah, that's just the the God you are. And I pray that, Lord, as um we dive into this, we can just um continue just to draw nearer and nearer to you, knowing that um because of that sacrifice, um, we get to spend eternal life. So that these things just uh with you, we get to spend eternal life with you in the things of this life, Lord. I pray that they just continue to just uh dim and pale themselves to um compared to the glory that you have just awaiting us and that we get to just uh appreciate right now, even. So, Lord, um be with us throughout our day, our week, and uh we love you. We pray this in your name. Amen.
SPEAKER_03Amen.
SPEAKER_01Love y'all, see y'all next week.
SPEAKER_00Have a great week.