White Hot Week 4 Discussion - Beyond Milk: Maturing beyond spiritual infancy!

Join this week's discussion as we look at what it means when the Bible says in Hebrews that we should move beyond milk and onto solid food for our spiritual maturity. How can we train for a life of discerning what is righteousness and what isn't?

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Welcome to Navigate, a podcast discussion from Tower Life Center, where we talk about how to navigate life, living as a follower of Jesus in a fallen and ever-changing world. Let's join the discussion.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yoho! Welcome back.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Hello, hello, hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Hello. Good morning. We're in our series still, and we're looking forward to diving into this with y'all.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Um, Beyond Milk is the title of yesterday's um sermon. And we want to peel back a layer some more on that with you guys.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

It was really disappointed that Kyle doesn't have his bottles of milk this morning.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

We cleaned them out yesterday. Cleaned them out. Milk only stays good for so long.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Which kind of milk?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Um I don't know. I have the red lid.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

All of them?

SPEAKER_02 1:15

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Did you did you know that two of them got swapped out for buttermilk and breast milk? No, they didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

I don't know that that's true. I don't know if they didn't. If that's true.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

That is hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

If that's true. The one tastes a little different in the internet.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

No, they didn't, because you can't hardly get any milk out of the banana. I know when someone asked me, like, was he actually drinking the milk?

SPEAKER_05 1:43

I was like, I was trying to.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

I was trying to, but the the hole was very, very small. Yeah. Like, I don't know how kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

It'll be really milk.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

That is so funny.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

It's like thick buttermilk.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

They all look the same.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

It was being milk. We're just kidding. Maybe. We thought about it now. Maybe that would have been a good one.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

That would have been quick. So funny.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

I mean, if I would have been able to get the milk out and be able to taste it, yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

It would have been a splash zone with the youth kids right there.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

I would have said something maybe that couldn't have taken this. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:30

Yeah. What is this?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

This milk's bad. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you guys uh dove in with us last or yesterday. Um, incredible message and um just convicting and challenging. And we're gonna um, like I said, just continue to dive into that. Um, I say this morning, but whenever you're listening, yeah. Um it would take us through.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Yeah, I mean, I understand that there was a lot of information yesterday. Yeah. And some people found that valuable. Most of the people in this room think that I've talked too long and had too many slides uh the indirectly.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Um, so yeah, I mean, there's a lot of places we could go with this conversation today. And so I think the place I would start is the differentiation between week three, which was last week, and then week four, which was yesterday. Uh, and saying how really in week three it was this concept of like, how do we how do we stop neglecting the fire that we would have? Right, how do we stop neglecting it? And then how do we start to nourish it? Week three was about how do I end up you know not neglecting, and then week four was was what do I do to nourish it? If I'm going to accept the responsibility that I have, how would I do that? Right? What would that what would that entail? And so that's where kind of we ended week three, started week four, and then we really just kind of ripped the band aid off with uh the text from Hebrews chapter five, verses twelve and four, and I will read that and then we can we can kind of piece through it. But Hebrews 5, 12 through 4 says, You've been believers for so long now that you ought to be teaching others instead. Instead, you have or instead you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God's word. You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food. For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn't know how to do what is right. Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong. And so, really, we spent most of our time uh having this discussion on what is the difference between milk and what's the difference between solid food, what does that look like, what does it represent, and then how do we walk out of life, as verse 14 says, where we become mature through training, through developing a skill that helps us to know the difference between not just right and wrong, but between righteousness and evil? We now then have to talk about this idea of spiritual infancy versus spiritual maturity. And I think the the question that maybe we can kind of have a quick conversation on is do you think that you guys yourselves and the people who who you would know and be in relationship with, do you guys view your spiritual journey as a process of maturation? Or would you view spiritual immaturity as like uh a negative thing that like we have like I can't admit that I've got growth?

SPEAKER_04 5:34

I think that's a great question.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Do you have a great answer? I would say the first. I don't know that we're ever gonna be spiritually mature. Yeah, we're human, but we can be more mature, we could be more mature, yeah. You can grow, we can be maturing. There's always growth, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

And like we talked about in this series, like just the process, the journey that until he returns, yeah, we are constantly being formed. Yeah, we're constantly um even you know, I think throughout our journey of following Jesus, there's different things that the Holy Spirit reveals to us. Um, you know, you might feel like, oh man, I've I've quote unquote like mastered this area or feel like confident in this area, and then there's like another circumstance that might come up in life, and you're like, oh my goodness, that's really interesting. Oh, that's like curveball, or even like, man, I thought I was disciplined in this area, but oh my goodness, I need I need help. I need to um get guidance. I need to so I feel like that could that area can be exposed. Sure. Um throughout the journey for sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

Which I love, excuse me, now I have something in my throat. Um I love both of your responses because I do think it goes back to the heart posture. I think we could answer this one of two ways. Um, and I think when you're going into it with humility rather than pride, it's a lot easier to say I'm never gonna learn at all. Like I am always a student, I'm always learning under Jesus. Um but then there's other others that would say like yeah, I'm spiritually mature. Um I don't know, I guess I would just caution people with that. I think we're always maturing. And I don't think spiritual immaturity is necessarily a bad thing. I think it's just like realizing, wow, I just I don't know it all yet. And the Lord continues to reveal things over time, and and that is a good thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

And I always think back to like um when I first I feel like really started being aware of like my sin. And like I don't have the same struggles that I have when I was fifteen.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I got new struggles now that I am working through or you know, but aware of. But like I think that is part of the spiritual maturing as well. Like, hey, I no longer struggle with this specific sin. Right. But there's other sins in my life now that you know I'm dealing with in different whether it's different seasons, but I think ultimately it's just in that maturity of like I don't want to look at this or view that or do this anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

I'm not gonna pick the chains back up that the Lord has freed me from.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

For sure. Yeah. But all throughout maturity, there's like you said, constant maturing as well.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

I mean, we definitely, I think if we can view it that way, right? If we can view it as a process of maturation, right, where we're all on a journey of maturing, and whether that journey is um completed or not before Jesus comes back, which it won't be, but we're still called to mature. We're still called to go on that process. Like we can't just say, well, I'll it'll never I'll never be mature until Jesus comes back. So I'm not even gonna worry about any of it. We we can't have that attitude. We also can't have the attitude that says, nah, man, I'm so mature, I don't even need to worry about trying to mature more.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Right. Or else, for to your example yesterday, you'll just stay on the bottle, right? Stay on the milk, and that'll look funny.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Yeah, well, because yes, we said it this way spiritual infancy is normal, but it's not meant to be permanent. Right. So it's okay to be in whatever spiritual season you're in today, yeah, but it's not okay to stay there.

SPEAKER_05 9:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Like we need to continue to mature because if we end up on the bottle, to Brad's to Brad's point, like it's gonna be weird when we're a 60-year-old telling people, man, I'm we're just really mature, right? But yet we're still on the bottle.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

So we need to continue to mature over time, right? Where we're at today is okay, it's normal, but now uh it's not meant to be permanent, it's meant to be temporary. So we need to continue to grow.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Well, and I feel like don't be discouraged if you find yourself back on the bottle. Yeah. Like there's something like you say, every season you get into, oh I guess I wasn't really prepared for this. Yeah. And here's something else I gotta learn or be force fed to begin.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Weaning myself off of that.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Sure, sure. And it it is really, I think one thing that is important to understand in all this is whether it's infancy or whatever, if we just call it an immature faith, right? An immature faith always needs someone else to keep it alive, right? That's why we had someone, uh Brad bring up the bottles of of milk yesterday, uh, to to feed uh to feed me the milk. Like not, I'm not drinking it myself. I didn't just have you like bring it to me and set on table. No, I had you You didn't go get it. Right. I didn't go get it. You brought it, you fed it to me, you picked which bottle. I just said, yes, I like it, no, I don't.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

Right?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Because I needed you to be the one who gave me the milk. And that's the part about immature faith that we have to understand is that as our faith is immature, that's okay. There's no blame, there's no fault. We're called to maturity, but if we don't mature into solid food, as the writer of Hebrews says, then what we under what we find is that I now am constantly, if I'm, as he says, like a baby who needs milk and cannot eat solid food, then I am dependent upon somebody else to bring me my milk and my sustenance and my nourishment. But that's not the design that we had, which is why Paul reminded Timothy in 2 Timothy chapter 1, verse 6. He said, Timothy, this is why I remind you to fan into flames the spiritual gift that God gave you. Right? He's not saying, Timothy, this is why I remind myself to fan your flames, this is why I remind your local pastor to fan the flames, this is why I remind that social media influencer, your small group leader, your favorite pastor that you listen to, your favorite right, whatever it is, right? Like he didn't say that. He said, This is why I remind you. Now, part of you fanning into flames may be a helpful podcast, maybe a helpful devote, maybe, maybe, maybe, right? But at the end of the day, there's going to be um some basic things that we can do to train ourselves that exist outside of external resources, even like this podcast. Right? Like this is helpful and a resource, but if this is the only time you spend a Jesus outside of uh Sunday morning, we're gonna be not producing and helping you produce the fruit that the Holy Spirit actually will produce in your life. Okay. And so we broke down just if that's the case and we want to get off of milk and get onto solid food, what's a difference? Right? What are the differences between the two? We said milk keeps us alive, so that's important. To Zach's point, if you go back, don't be ashamed. If you're on milk today, don't be like, well, I'm just slowly dying. No, you have the nourishment to stay alive. But if we have solid food, that's gonna strengthen us, that's gonna nourish us for growth, maturation, development, and ultimately formation, which is the goal of what we've been talking about for me in the last man, the last where are we at today? Over 10 weeks about this concept of spiritual formation. And what how what does that look like? How does it happen? What role does the Holy Spirit play? And now we're talking about what role do I play in my spiritual formation? And so we've got to mature beyond milk into solid food, which implies that we are maturing.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

And when you think about it too, like from that like milk keeps us alive approach, it's it's almost just like when you think about somebody that's maybe even just like going through the motions. Yeah. Or like, hey, like when something gets hard, eh, I'm done. Or, you know, like whether that's anything, whether maybe it's parenting, maybe it's a marriage, maybe it's um maybe it's a job, yeah. Like, oh, like I don't need it. You know, I'm just I'm just getting by, I'll I'll survive. Yeah. But like when we think of like the solid food analogy and how what Paul says in those the scripture of like getting the food that's going to strengthen us, going to make us persevere. And I think that is like what we what we have because of Jesus. Like, you know, when things are challenging, like, okay, what do I need to do to to work through? But uh on the flip side, like, you know, I think about like our seven month old, like, you know, he's he's just going through the motions. Yeah, he's just relying on mom, hey, feed me. Yep, you're gonna keep me alive, you're gonna keep me going. Yeah, I'll cry when I want more food. Yeah, and then yeah, if he doesn't, like he's eventually just gonna be like, well, well, I'm done. Like, here we are. But that's that that maturing process that's like, hey, no, like, man, I start getting more of this. I start feeding myself. Yeah. Now, guess what? As I'm, you know, a toddler or you know elementary age kid, I can go and feed myself. I can do the all those things.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Yeah, then like when your daughter then goes to school and she that she's packed her lunch, she would remember to grab her lunch and make sure she takes it to school.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Have a small man.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

But you also like over time, you start to desire that type of you start to desire the things that are going to strengthen you, nourish you, keep you persevering, keep you enduring through the hard times. You you desire that more than milk.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

And I think that's ultimately like the goal in this spiritual journey is when you make your faith your own.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Like as parents, you're like, man, when my kids just like, it's no longer me, like, but like their faith isn't just because dad or mom or grandma or grandpa, it's like, no, they're owning their faith on their own. Yeah. And I think about once again to my like high school days of that just keep showing up. Like, because my I think of like my campus life director, right? Like, man, thinking back to being in a role like that, like, oh man, I would have thought Brad was I would have hated Brad as a student, like, because he's like two-faced, acts this way here, acts this way there. Yeah. Um, but knowing that there's journeys and that like we're still like looking back on that, like, I've made my faith my own. Like from the people that just kept showing up.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Yeah, I was gonna say he loved you through your immaturity.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

And that's what we're called to do as well. As we're maturing, as we're growing, like and we see other people that are growing, we have to love them through that immaturity too. Because we ourselves have been there and might be there in so many other ways. Um, but yeah, it's that faithfulness, it's that showing up over and over and over again, even when the flesh is frustrated.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, you we can't um we can call people to maturity without shaming them for immaturity. Right, yeah, right. And so we have to we have to figure out how do we do a do something understanding that there are people looking at us today, even us in this room, saying, Man, Kyle, I want to call you to maturity. Yeah, right, and not shaming me for my immaturity. Right. And so the the the reality is we go through seasons as followers where where we're constantly you don't just go from a baby who drinks, you don't go from Brad seven seven-month-old to a wise sage who has been teaching Sunday school and involved in church for years and years and years. Yeah, right. You go from Brad seven month-old to a toddler, from a toddler to an adolescent, from an adolescent to a preteen, preteen to teenager, right? Like that's the progression. So why would it be any different here? You don't go from milk to stakes and Starburst. You go from milk to pouches.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Steaks and Starburst? Come on.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Well, I was thinking of really chewy things. I was thinking of things that steaks and starburst. That's a serpentile. Yeah, that's all. Steaks and Starburst, come on.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Well, you know what though? There's joy in life and there's freedom from rules and toxins, baby.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

From rules and red dye.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

That's right. That's how you uh get start with the steak. Yeah, and then you eat a starver. Yeah. Oh but like we have to understand people, ourselves included, are going to go in a process of maturation. Yeah. Right? You don't just graduate from infant to a sage. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like you're gonna go in this process, and we have to be okay with ourselves on that, but we we can't be so judgmental and prideful that we're okay with ourselves being on that journey, but not everyone else. Right. Like, how prideful is that? That we would be like, well, of course I'm maturing, and like, yes, you just don't get it. But you don't have the ability to mature. You are either a baby who drinks milk or a mature person who drink eats solid food. There is no middle ground. Yeah, no, this is a process, and we have to be gracious to other people.

SPEAKER_05 19:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

And that can be frustrating though, even for your own self. Like, I want to be here and I'm here. Yeah, yeah, because we just live in a world that is like, boom, you want something? Two days it'll be here.

SPEAKER_05 20:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Two days. Well, I'm just gonna be remote. I was thinking of Amazon. Yeah, Amazon's gonna get it here this afternoon.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Hey, that's true, depending on what it is, I guess. Yeah, no, I think you're 100% right there, right? So we I would just encourage us in this process, as much as we want to give ourselves grace, we need to make sure we give other people the same extend that other people that same grace, knowing that there are also people who are extending us grace as well. Yeah, yeah, right. Like if we are maturing, then we need to have some maturity to see that other people are maturing as well on a different pace and place than we have. Yeah, right. So we we go back to Hebrews chapter 5, verse 14, and this is where the kind of the the message yesterday shifted from from milk versus solid food to what does a life of maturing look like? And so verse 14 again says solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong. And so as you go through and you look at the what that verse would have really said if if you expanded every word and and kind of saw the full meaning of it, it would say something like solid food is for those who are mature, who through constant and consistent, disciplined training develop the ability to recognize or develop the judgment between righteous virtues and evil. Right? And so what does it look like to have consistent and constant disciplined training in our life to begin to develop the skill and the judgment to know the difference between righteous virtues and evil. And so we spent the rest of our time yesterday talking about four different things that we can call training and We can make sure that that we as we dive in and we dig into it, we can see how would I uh go down this process of consistent cost constant discipline training. Um and so there's four things. Number one, the first thing we said was if we're going to uh engage in this training, we need to read his word. Um and kind of one of the main things before we talk about how we would do that or what that looks like is just understanding that we I could have called this point read the Bible, but I wanted it to be personal to the fact that it is his word, it's something he's already spoken, he's inspired it. It's something that he wanted us to have, it's not just a a collection of accounts of stories that happened, although that's there, it's not a history book, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:46

Yeah, living word, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:48

It's the living word, and it's useful not transactional, it's relational, right? And it's useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives, right? And so that's what Paul wrote to second or to Timothy in 2 Timothy, right? He's like, dude, this word, the living word of God, in verse 15, he says, You learned it in childhood and you received the wisdom from it that led you to salvation that comes through Christ Jesus. Now, it's now useful, even though you're already saved, it's useful for this maturation process because it's going to teach you what's right and wrong. It's going to teach you what's wrong and to do what's right, it's going to prepare you and to equip you for every good work that he has for you. Right. Then we looked at Psalm chapter one, verses one through three, and the thing that we talked about was this concept of man delighting in the law of God, delighting in the word, meditating on it day and night. Right? Like that's the way that they were treating the word of God. That's what they were doing with it, right? Because they didn't believe that it was just this history book, they believed it's the living word, the living, breathing word of God that was applicable to their life. And so if we're going to go down this process of training, we want to make sure that we understand how important reading the scriptures is. And so the way that I kind of summarized all of that is we need to go from seeing scripture as facts to fuel.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

And I think even too, just for like two perspectives on that.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Like our we have so much access to the Bible and the um where we live. Don't even say in the world we live, but in like the United States. And I think that's just like helped shift my perspective a little bit, is knowing that right now, as we speak, people are being persecuted, yeah, put in jail, killed, yeah, for having the word of God, or professing or confessing, professing the word of God.

SPEAKER_05 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Um and yet too, like putting yourself like we don't know what tomorrow holds. Like, yeah, what if like I think sometimes we take advantage of the fact that, oh man, I could I can read. Oh, I'll get to it tomorrow. I'll get to it to but like what if like I feel like we should read it as like a mindset of what if we didn't have access to it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

Like the gift that it really is, and not taking that for granted.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

And then on the second like side of it too, is like if that time were to come, man, wouldn't you want to have some of those like just in your mind, yeah, in your heart, like those those promises that maybe you wouldn't have access to.

SPEAKER_05 25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

But I think like we can pull it up on our phone, we can leave it out on our uh coffee table. Think about this, we can print it on a piece of paper and pass it out to kids.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

If you're right, which you are, but if you're right, that we have this ultimate freedom that other people don't have of having access to the word of God. If this just this thing that doesn't really matter and it's just a collection of stories that are why would people fight so hard for others not to have it?

SPEAKER_05 26:10

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Like, why would they why would they want to be like, no, no, no, you can't have access to that?

SPEAKER_04 26:15

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Why?

SPEAKER_04 26:18

I think because it brings freedom.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

It brings freedom, there's power, and it's not just it's not a history book. Yeah, yeah, right. And so to your point, you know, you're right, like that is the case other places because there's power in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

And I think it goes true to the fact of why the Pharisees didn't want people to believe in Jesus because they didn't want their power to be stripped from them. For sure. You know, they don't want them. Yeah. And so, man, I think when we think about reading God's word, yeah, just like having I feel like I've been trying to have that perspective more of just like, this is a privilege. Yeah, and this privilege could be taken from me.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

100%. I think when you go to engage in the word of God, like just sitting there with him and thanking him for it, first and foremost, like thank you that I get to sit here without persecution. I get to sit in my home, in my the comfort of my home, first of all. A lot of people don't even have that. So like I get to sit here in the comfort of my home or comfort of my car or comfort of my workplace, and I get to have my Bible out. I get to read it freely. We don't even know what that feels like in other countries. Where they they can't.

SPEAKER_06 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

You possess a Bible, you are on the verge of getting killed.

SPEAKER_06 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Um, so yeah, I love that. Just having the right perspective going into it and the right um heart of gratitude towards the Lord and just thanking him for the freedom that we do have here.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

So what do we do, right? Like if we're gonna read his word, we're gonna take that seriously. We're gonna do like there's I we said yesterday there's a million plans, there's a million things you can find about the Bible. You can find all sorts of people who give you tips and tricks on how to organize and structure your time, right? That isn't my goal. My goal is to give you principles that you can apply, whether you read it in the morning, whether you read it at night, whether you read a Bible plan on Genesis, Revelation, Psalm, Leviticus, right? Like whatever. What can we apply to whatever plan and whatever rhythm we develop? Okay, we have three things. Number one, read less words, remember more words. Right? So, like, let's actually remember the things that we read. Because what good does it do for us to power through and knock out my well, read the whole book of Matthew today? Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, well, what'd you take from it? Yeah, what commands that Jesus left in there?

SPEAKER_04 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

What lessons that Jesus taught? What should the parables spoke out to you?

SPEAKER_04 28:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Right. Well, what?

SPEAKER_04 28:47

I read the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Jesus was in there?

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Yeah. Or like I think you said yesterday, like, no, no, no. Didn't you hear though? I read the whole book of Matthew. Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

It's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

That's not the point. It's like 100%.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

That's where the analogy, the infancy analogy comes back, you know.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

For scripture. And so you can come, maybe you just come to church on Sunday mornings and that's it. So we're reading somebody's reading scripture to you. Yeah. They're giving you the bottle.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

They're holding it for you.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

But now you're intrigued a little bit, so but I don't know what to do. So I'll go to the Bible app and here's a reading. So now I'm going to hold the bottle for myself. Somebody's got to give it to me.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

But I'll hold the bottle. And so now I'm starting to read a little bit and I'm holding the bottle. And to your point, read less, remember more. Like, okay, so now I've got a fork and I'm going to start the bottle down. So I'm going to get a little more meat.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Yeah. Or maybe you're like, you know, we had someone talking this morning that was like, man, my reading comprehension skills aren't like that great. Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

It's like, okay, so maybe just take a paragraph, a verse.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Man, soak that up.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Well, and my thing is the reading less isn't about frequency. Yeah. Right. It's about intensity. Yeah. Right. So the frequence, I'm still going to read every day, or maybe even twice a day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Well, to Brad's point. Maybe I'm still reading every day. Maybe I'm reading this same section today, and then I read something tomorrow and I go back to it the next day until it cements into my head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

You know, it's really interesting. As I teach Oakland, our daughter, um, we're homeschooling and we go through scripture. Like the the curriculum gives you, I think it's six total scriptures for the year at her age. She's three and a half. So we're focusing on three scripture or sorry, six scriptures throughout the whole year. So we'll focus on one every, I don't know, the math. Six six weeks, maybe. You're looking at it. You know it. I don't know what it is. I just opened the I open the curriculum, it tells me what to do.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

How many months are there in the year? Um we're doing this on air.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

We don't do all 12. We don't do all 12.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

12.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

So I would say nine.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

Um, so then if there's six scriptures, we're doing it every six ninths.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

So there's six scriptures, so you're doing it nine months, or six scriptures over nine months. I know this seems like a this is this is counseling on so yeah, so every every one and a half you backed into every six weeks and got the right answer. And I'm so annoyed right now. That's awesome. So I was right, yes, I'm leaving this podcast.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

So every six weeks we are sitting on we are sitting on the same scripture, right? And I watch her memorize it, and it has like sparked something in me where I'm like, I don't even think I was, I know I wasn't doing that before I had to teach her. And so now I'm sitting with her and I'm memorizing scripture with her, and I'm like, wow, I've never sat for six weeks in one verse. Have you guys? I haven't. What? Like it, but it's so cool because like a merry heart does good like medicine. Like that's one of her verses that we've been working on. And I'm like, wow, how many times do I not have a merry heart? How many times do I struggle with that throughout the day? And I mean, it's being, I mean, just compacted into my heart over six weeks.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Well, and this is a good, this is a good example of maturity, right? Because Oakland's maturity allows her to know to know the verse without really understanding how to apply it yet. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:28

But now I'm sitting there having to apply it as I teach her.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Right, exactly. And so that's a process of maturity that we would go on.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Is there are some of some times where we might know what a verse says, but not know how to apply it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

But as we mature, we can begin to understand how do I apply it. Uh and so we read less words. Well, what's the verse?

SPEAKER_04 32:48

Proverbs 17, 22.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

And it is.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

A merry heart does good like medicine.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Yeah. A merry heart to Oakland is hey, it's a good day. I get to go play. Yeah. To a high school kid, it's like, hey, nobody's picking on me today. I'm in a good mood. Yeah. To an adult, college kid, something different. To a parent, something completely different. Yeah. To a grandparent. I mean, that's the one thing about the Bible is no matter what you read, it's gonna it change. It's gonna speak to you in each season.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

No doubt.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

So then as we read less and remember more, then we can take that and say, hey, a merry heart does good like medicine. So God, I'm gonna ask you. Like, what is we said the principle is ask God, what is he saying about what he said.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

Right?

SPEAKER_02 33:32

So he already said a merry heart is good like medicine. So now tell talk to me, Lord. Like, what does that mean in my life?

SPEAKER_04 33:38

What does that even mean? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Yeah, like where do I not have a merry heart?

SPEAKER_04 33:41

Yeah, show it to me, reveal it to me.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Yeah, and so then through prayer and through conversation with him, he can begin to speak to you on it, which leads us then to the third principle under reading his word, is that application is just as important as acquisition. Right? So who cares if if we always stay like Oakland, where Proverbs 17, 22, merry heart does good like medicine, but doesn't really know what it means to have a merry heart, doesn't know how to get herself from an unmerry heart to a merry heart whenever it's not merry, and doesn't understand what medicine that means for her soul and why she would want that, yeah, she can just recite it.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

Well, and why God wants that for her, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Right, exactly. And so she has acquired the scripture without applying it in her life, and so we have to understand that if we all just go around acquiring scripture but never living it out, never applying it, is we're missing so much of what God would have for us.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

So do you know? What would that be?

SPEAKER_04 34:41

No, I'm just trying to think, what would that be? Knowledge acquisition versus knowledge application, life application.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Well, yeah, so wisdom, right? Yeah, wisdom is in the application, knowledge is in the acquisition.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

So the process from from knowledge to wisdom isn't applying what you have learned.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Yeah. And I think in the world that we live in, we are just inundated with knowledge, information. That was the original like first sin was chasing knowledge. Like we can get into that, we can fall into that, where it's like, I'm just gonna chase more knowledge, more knowledge, more knowledge. And it's like, oh, but how how am I actually applying it? How do I how do I move from it?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

And it can be so easy to think, like, man, I don't why would I want to spend a week, let alone six weeks or whatever? You just one scripture.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

She said six weeks.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah, uh, I'm still on that in that. But like, okay, even if I read, for example, let's say the Sermon on the Mount, like for a week, I'd probably be like, Man, I'm I'm better than that. Like, come on, I sure let's move on. Yeah, let me get some more ready for more. But are we? Yeah, you know, like sometimes I think about that with like Proverbs. Man, I'd love to just like uh know the proverbs in and out and be able to like just spit those out, but then it's like I want to move on to something else, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

It's like I want to know the proverbs so bad that I don't even want to read them right now. Yes, right. Right, right. How dumb does that sound that we would read? We would all say stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 36:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Like anybody, even somebody who would be spiritually immature or somebody who doesn't even call themselves a Christian, if we said, Man, I want to know something so bad that I don't want to learn about it, they'd be like, You are an idiot, Kyle. I'm not saying you, like, because you're like, I would love to memorize more scripture, me personally. But like, what am I doing to memorize more scripture? Yeah, not as much as I should, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:28

So well, I think it gets overwhelming because you do have to go back to that infancy. When you're memorizing scripture, you do have to slow down, you do have to break it down to one scripture at a time. And it's like, I'm better than that. I or whatever your pride would speak over that, right? Like it, but you really do have to like rewind, go back, slow down, and go back to the basics.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Yeah, and it doesn't even if you had the whole book memorized, yeah, you're still just holding the bottle for yourself.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

If you're not applying it. Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

100% for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

And it doesn't help too that we're just like so addicted to our phones and all these things where we always want to. Even when we have time, we're like, uh, but I need this on Facebook Marketplace. So I'm gonna look at that for 20 minutes when you could be right.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Yeah, I'm gonna look at that for 20 minutes, it turned into an hour and a half. Yeah, right. For sure. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

You could listen to the uh Old Testament slugs and Bugs song for 20 minutes straight and memorize all the old testament books by then. Yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Okay. Read his word was number one. Connect with him in prayer is number two.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Did you guys catch that, Kyle? Moving on.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

Moving on.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Oh, I can I can see the I can see our timer, and we're at 37 minutes. Yeah, and we're on point two out of four now.

SPEAKER_05 37:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Uh connect with him in prayer. And this is because I stayed on time yesterday. You guys are the ones slowing me down today.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Uh, so connect with him in prayer. We're gonna read his word, but we've got to make sure that we connect with him in prayer because the way we said it yesterday, prayer is not a ritualistic checkbox, prayer is a relational connection point. Right? We have to see prayer as this thing that isn't just like, man, I know I'm supposed to talk to God, so let me just tell him some things, get it off my plate, move on to the next thing. Right. But say, no, I want a relational connection point with my heavenly father. I want a relational connection point with his spirit that he's placed on the inside of me. I like I've got to rely on him for things. I like I'm leaning into him for things. Like I don't just want to tell him things, I want to hear from him. Yeah. Right? It's a relational connection point. And so we outlined a handful of principles that um that we would apply to our prayer life. That I think whether you pray in the morning, you pray at night, you pray while you drive, you pray, whatever, sitting down, whatever the things are, right? These should all be applicable. Okay. And so the first one was be honest. God already knows your heart, so you might as well tell him the truth.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Right. Like, why like he already knows your heart, he already like he already knows the things that you did, he already knows the things you thought, the things you said, he already knows the the prayer requests that you would have. He knows the things that are burdening you, he knows all of it. So for us to approach him in prayer and be um You can't put on a front with God. Yeah. Like you might be able to put on a front with your the way I think we said it yesterday was like you can put on a front with your spouse, with your boss, with the people you work with, with your friends.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

Even yourself sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Yeah, you can put on a front with yourself. You you can justify and manipulate things with white lies and all these other things around you, and it can look okay. Yep, but man, God can see through all of that crap.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

So be honest. Yeah, he knows. He knows we're reading the book in our Bible study, experiencing God, and there's a part in there where he talks about how often when you're praying, when you're praying, praying.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Yeah, when you're praying, of course.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

When you're praying, I didn't say I didn't say anything. I know. Didn't have to. How often when we're praying, are we asking to bless our plan? Yeah, here's what here's what I'm gonna do today, God. P please bless this. Yeah, yeah. Instead of asking for, is this the right direction? Or what's your plan? What is the plan? Yeah, yeah. Am I doing is this is this the right direction? And if it is, then bless this.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Like yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

There's there was a piece of feedback I received in the lobby yesterday that I thought was was interesting. And so there was an off-handed comment that I made. Um, so obviously you know it's the Holy Spirit, but the concept of like when we pray and we don't reveal the full truth to God, right? Or we don't ask him, What's your plan? How often are we scared to actually tell God because we're like, man, he's gonna like He's gonna challenge me in that. Or is it because I'm afraid I'm not afraid to tell him, I'm afraid of what he's actually gonna say back. Right. Yeah, I'm not scared of me voicing that to him. Yep, I'm scared of what he's gonna say back to me. What's he gonna challenge me with?

SPEAKER_04 41:04

What's he gonna reveal to me?

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Yeah, yeah. And somebody said, Man, that was really impactful. And to me, that was an offhanded comment that just I think that the Holy Spirit obviously put in.

SPEAKER_05 41:13

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

But but for for him, it was this thing of like, man, I don't, I'm not honest because I'm really afraid of what he's gonna say back.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Right? Like, I know he knows.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Like, but I don't want to know what I know he knows. Right, right. The friends reference. That was a that was a small group of people who got that one. I think um, but yeah, this guy really did help me kind of that's it was encouraging to to hear him be like, no, that's of all the things he could have taken away, it was that.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

That's really neat.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah, I love that. So be it be honest, and then the next one was be consistent. So develop a rhythm for talking with God before the world deletes your conversations with him. And the point, the premise behind this, and then you guys can talk about it, is is we have to be consistent in saying how and when am I going to have conversations with God? Because if we just think we're gonna, well, today I'll do it in the morning. Tomorrow, we're not gonna have time because I got that thing early, so I'm just gonna do it at lunchtime. Well, by the time you get to lunchtime, uh thing uh things will have gone awry. Yeah. And you're not gonna have time at lunch because you're scheduled, because you're distracted, because I've got to find that thing on Facebook Marketplace. Right? Because, because, because, because, because.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Well, and most of us get in the car to do whatever we're gonna do in the morning. So how often do we get in the car and start a phone make a phone call to save some time and we're talking to somebody? Right. Like hello. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

It's like it's like, hey, I'm gonna skip the primary conversation and have these secondary ones. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 42:47

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Doesn't just because you're thinking of prayer doesn't mean it has to happen in a dark room on your knees. Like have a conversation.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

You know, to that point, it's really cool. This was before you and I were married, but I was in the car and I had called so many people, just like trying to pass time. And I think I burned through five phone calls. Nobody answered, it was during the day. And I just felt that conviction right then and there where God was like, come to me. Like, there's a reason they're not answering. I I want time with you. And I was like, whoa. I mean, it rocked my world. And it was just so cool because then that was the most fruitful time I had all throughout the day.

SPEAKER_06 43:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

And he was like, I just wanted, I wanted your heart. I wanted to spend some time with you. And it was like, oh, he cares enough to do that, to bring that conviction. It's just so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I remember I had something similar when Carly and I were just married. We were living in Yorktown at the time, and we were driving um towards Bluffton, and it was like after lunchtime, so it was probably like 3 p.m. And we're driving on 69, and I was like, Man, I've not like acknowledged God today at all. Like I've just gone throughout my day, and it's 3 p.m. Sure. And I was like, how do I call myself like a Christian if I've not even acknowledged his presence today?

SPEAKER_05 44:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

And so I think you remember the time where we were at the lake one time and I had like, I after that moment, um, I was like, I'm setting the timer.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Every hour it started at 8 a.m. and then it was 9 a.m., 10 a.m., all the way until 8 p.m. Just as a reminder of like, hey, let gotta be in the midst of my day. This must have been the time.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

Did you say that started because of the time?

SPEAKER_00 44:32

This must have been in the beta tasting movie. This went all through the night. Every hour, we're all in the table together. And they didn't stop it at 8 p.m. So then it just like midnight.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Once again, that was like sleeping in a room a mile away. It's his phone right outside our bedroom door again.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

And we were like I couldn't find it. Like I you hid your phone. I don't know where it was. It was so funny.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

I think then it was like a time that I was just like, man, I need something to help me. And now like I don't have those alarms, I'm just trying to remind all of you to see that. Yeah, I didn't think for sure. I've been telling you why this is like this, but you need to sleep.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

You built that rhythm and that discipline.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

And now like I don't have to have a necessarily alarm, but then like sometimes I might need those reminds, you know, but yeah, um just need something that conviction. Having the bottle.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Now it becomes repeat. I remember like specifically, like I said, driving on the road and being like, oh man, I've not like, like I said, acknowledged like the fact that he's even here. Yeah. Wow. So good. So it was like in a big pen, here we go, something's gonna change. And I want to I want to grow how?

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Like I'd be shocked if that road wasn't the road to the lakehouse. That would that would be the first time.

SPEAKER_05 45:54

That'd be the first time you've tried this right. I don't even know how alarms work at the time.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

What do you think the side of alarm is at the same time? Okay, so be honest, be consistent, yeah, and then to the point now of even kind of what where Brad was leading us into it, is be constant.

SPEAKER_05 46:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

So prayer isn't only at a set time, it is and can be and should be, but it's not only a set time, it is all the time and any time. Yeah, so I can do every hour, I can do what before I walk into this conversation with my spouse, I can do before I walk into this conversation at work. Yeah, I can have a worry that pops in your head, yeah, turn it into a prayer. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 46:29

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Yes, I think of I think of because I know the life you live, Amanda, of like moms, right? It's like, well, I had my prayer time at 6 a.m. this morning. Now our daughter's up and she's like zero to a hundred. Yeah, she's talking back and she's doing whatever. And now my goodness, I need self-control and I need patience, and I also need peace. Yeah, and it's not like, well, I set my time at 6 a.m. So I'll talk to God about this tomorrow. Yeah, it's like, thank the Lord that I can be constant in prayer and be okay, now it's 8 45, and I've got to address this again.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Well, things get heated, and it's like, all right, mommy needs prayer time, so we are both going to God in prayer right now and showing, showing her and giving her that example.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:11

All the time, baby.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

So honest, consistent, constant, and then the last one was be open. Uh, and the principle is prayer isn't an emotional dump session, prayer is a conversation where God can and will, if we allow him, form us through what we say to one another. Right? Because prayer is ultimately just a conversation with our Heavenly Father who seeks to form us. Yeah. Right? He wants to form us more and more into his image. So he's gonna leverage and take the conversations that we have with him. If we are honest, consistent, constant, right? If we're all of those things, then as we approach him openly, then he can form us because openness isn't just like another word for honest. And when I said be open, I'm talking about be open to what he wants to do in your life. Be open to what he's saying, be open to the things that he would speak back. So don't just be like, all right, I've got 10 minutes in the car. I'm gonna pray and tell God everything for 10 minutes, and then I'm gonna get out of the car and go live my life. And he's like, Man, I wish he would have given me nine of those ten. I already know so many of those things.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

So give me nine minutes to speak to you.

SPEAKER_04 48:19

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Do you guys have any thoughts on honest, consistent, constant, open?

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Yeah, I think it's kind of how often do we not say thank you or for the gratitude side. A lot of times we go with worries or hey, I'm going into this meeting, hopefully this goes well. And then you get out of it and wow, that went really well. Yeah. And then go about your day, like, yeah, oh hey, thank you for that going so well.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

Yeah, and like even going into that meeting, like, hey, God, give me the wisdom, give me the right words to say, but also thanks for an opportunity. But even if you pray that part of it, yeah, and then you come out of it's like, wow, that went really well. And then just go about like you don't acknowledge the fact that why did that go so well? Yeah, yeah, or that he's the one who gave you the opportunity to have that great meeting with this company.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

Or yeah, or hey, thanks for leading and thanks for guiding, Holy Spirit, and thanks for being present with us at all times, you know. Right, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

So read his word, connect with him in prayer. Number three is getting Christian community. Yeah. Okay, so this is just the I think the you know, when we talked about it yesterday, it's this concept of mean compared to Christian community, all of a sudden prayer and reading now becomes really easy. I'll do that. I don't know that I want to be in relationship with a bunch of other Christians. That's too messy. Yeah, that's too messy. They hurt me, they're hypocritical, they, they, they, they, they, right. So I'm not gonna do that. But when we look at the Bible, the thing I would encourage you in is that in in the context of the Bible, like Christian community wasn't just a principle that they talked about.

SPEAKER_05 49:54

It was a way of life.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

They did talk about it in that, but it was a way of life. It's the it's the cultural context that the new tech that the New Testament was set in. Right? Like the New Testament is set in this context of Christian community.

SPEAKER_04 50:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

And so we have to understand that it's not just like, hey, you should have Christian friends, but you should live in Christian community, right? Because kind of the the dichotomy that we talked about yesterday was this concept of in our life today, we take our activity, we take our schedule, we take our calendar, we take our work, we take everything that could be in our life, and we try to fit the community around those things. Where in the old test or in the new testament, they would have taken their community and then tried to fit their activities around their community, they would have tried to fit their work schedule around their community, they would have fit how they worshipped around their community, they would have fit all of those things around community. Yeah, community was at the center, and then around that was everything else.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

Wild how far we've gotten from that original design, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Well, yeah, because think about all the things, all the areas where we would have to die to flesh.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

100%.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Right? Like, so we've now said I want my I want my flesh to get what it wants, and then I'll try to figure out how do I I'll squeeze it in there somehow. Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:16

And that typically doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Yep, yep. And so the principles we had with community were prioritize Christian community highly. And so I wonder what would it look like for you, the listener, what would it look like for us if we were to say, listen, I'm going to prioritize Christian community and put it in my schedule. So I'm gonna have a weekly Christian community where I can be open, honest, vulnerable, right? Where and we'll talk about some of that stuff. But if you just said I'm going to have Christian community the way that the Bible would have designed it, put it in my schedule on a consistent basis. I would imagine many of us would be like, well, it doesn't fit. I can't do it. So what do we do? We end up not putting it in our schedule. Where what I would challenge us to do is if we prioritize it, it's like, you're right, it doesn't fit because we're already over-scheduled and overprogrammed.

SPEAKER_04 52:06

So now we're gonna sit down with the calendar with your spouse and say, what are we, what are we removing? What are we taking out so that we can prioritize it?

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Yeah, exactly. So if Christian community is a non-negotiable, yeah, what are we removing? You're right, we don't have time for Christian community, but not being in Christian community is not an option.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

So we're gonna put that in our schedule. So what comes out? And it's like, well, does little Johnny's T-ball come out? How bad of a parent am I for saying that? Right? Because he he could be the next Derek Jeter.

SPEAKER_04 52:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Little Susie's ballet. The meetup that you do with that that group of people for homeschool, or the parent thing for teachers, or the extra shift at work. Or or or or or.

SPEAKER_04 52:54

Well, it can even be something good, like for our world. Like I could be in a women's Bible study, you could be in a men's Bible study, and then we are not able to be in a family community group because we've already got two nights taken up by something good. And it's like, hey, maybe in this season we're backing down from that so that we can get into family Christian community. So that we can say yes to that, even though it means taking out a good thing, yeah. We're still able to enter into it as a family because there's so much fruit that comes from family Christian community.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Sure. And so you have to be prayerful about that of what are the things to your point of like in this season, does it make more sense for our family to be in that together? Or does it make more sense for me to have a good group of guys and you to have a good group of women?

SPEAKER_05 53:42

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

And I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer in all of that. I'm just saying, like, be prayerful in that and allow God to speak to you in that. But when it comes down to, man, let's be prayerful and say, God, should we be in Christian community? Or should I go join the golf league with people who aren't Christians? Or should I go do the whatever? Or should I go be a part of this? Or, you know, should we do that, or should I pick up a couple extra shifts? And I say, I just don't see a world where he's like, you know what, don't be in Christian community. Do those other things instead.

SPEAKER_05 54:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

And so we have to prioritize it highly, but then we said you have to show up consistently. And that is both frequency and uh intensity. Right. So the frequency is how often do I show up? Well, I've got to be consistent. Now you're gonna have a vacation, you're gonna have a you're gonna be sick, you're gonna whatever, right? Like our community group, we've been, I would say we've shown up consistently and also not shown up every week. Right? Like all of us.

SPEAKER_04 54:42

You you have kids who are sick, you have a vacation, you have a doctor's appointment, you have well, and a lot of the time too, like if we're sick or there is a vacation, so we're all missing a Sunday, it's in the group chat, it's like, okay, so we can't get together on Sunday. How about Tuesday or Wednesday of this next week? What does that look like for you guys? Right. So we're still prioritizing it. It just might look different from week to week.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

Yes. Showing up consistently is taking the prioritization that you did one time in our schedule to say, listen, we're gonna prioritize community and we're gonna put it in the calendar. Showing up consistently is now prioritizing it on a consistent basis ongoingly.

SPEAKER_05 55:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Right. And so that's part of it. But then showing up consistently is like, how do I show up? Right? Not how frequently do I show up, but in what state do I show up? That doesn't mean you can't have a bad day. That doesn't mean you can't say, hey, I missed it and sinned. But you can't show up every time thinking that this group is solely designed to be about me.

SPEAKER_04 55:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Right? Community is for the benefit of yourself and of others, right? Others. I knew that you were gonna, I said it weird. I said it weird. I knew it. I knew it. Either others.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

Community is for the benefit of yourself for sure, but also of others. And so I want to make sure that we understand showing up consistently doesn't mean you have to be fake.

SPEAKER_05 55:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:59

It just means you can't be so self-absorbed that you're not interested in the mutual benefit of helping other people grow in a meaningful way closer to God.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

And I think a way to do that, just like a tangible way to do that when you're entering into group or going to group, driving to group, like how can I show up to love, support, honor, build up, encourage, and strengthen the people that God has set before me. Because that gets focused off of self and onto other people as you're entering into um, whether it be a Bible study or your community group or just a lunch with a friend. Like I think asking ourselves those questions is really important.

SPEAKER_05 56:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

But then also it creates that space when you do need to be like, man, I'm broken. Yeah. I need prayer over this. I need 100%.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Which is the next principle, open up honestly. Yeah. So you can keep going on that, but I just wanted to make that transition of like you have to open up honestly.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

For sure. Yeah. It's not always I think it's it's building that that trust, and it's so it's not just like letting it always, like you said, be about yourself, but then also when you do need that, like that's part of having that community where you can be transparent, you can be real, you can confess, yeah, you can um ask for and this is an area where I thought I was crushing it and I'm failing. I'm making it. So help me.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Yeah, I think it's um to this principle. I think we live in this world there's a really confusing world we live in where we want to control all the information about ourselves. And so we actually want almost everybody to know many things about us, but we don't want anybody to know everything about us. And so we overshare in a lot of spaces and undershare in the important spaces. And I would say that, man, can we get to a place where we would say, listen, I don't need to be telling everybody all the time like 80% of everything that's going on because we're hijacking so many things around us.

SPEAKER_05 58:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

But can I have a space where there's somebody or somebodies who know everything? Where there's nothing that's off limits, where I'm not holding anything back, where they can say, listen, hey, here's how I responded here. Here's a decision I made, here's where I thought I was crushing and I'm failing, whatever it is. And let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 58:20

Well, and I think it's a mark of maturity too. Like it's it's showing up with that heart of confession where I'm not emotionally dumping on everybody. It's like here's where the Lord convicted me this week. Here are some areas that I'm struggling with, and I'm trying to navigate it. I don't know if I'm doing it right. Can you guys pour some wisdom into me? Um, I think that helps not hijack the conversation, but also like I'm bringing this to you guys. This is a heart of confession, this is where I'm missing it.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Yeah. Um and maybe you don't even have the answer today. Can you pray for me? Can you think about it?

SPEAKER_04 58:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Like, have you, yeah, have you heard of somebody who either struggles with it or have you ever and have you been given good advice, right? It's yeah. And maybe if you're talking, maybe groups on a Sunday, just say that. You might not it might be Thursday and they're gonna make, hey, I read this verse this week and thought of you.

SPEAKER_04 59:11

Yeah. And receive it with a heart of humility, don't receive it with a spirit of offense.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Right, for sure. For sure, right? And so then we come to the last point under this, which was stay close intentionally, which the reality is we are going to not do relationship perfectly all the time. We're sinful people in a sinful world, right? And as easily as it is for us to be offended, it's easy for us to offend others as well, because they're offendable, right? And we're offendable. And so we have to be intentional about staying close, which means we're gonna put in the work and the time to not be so easily offended and to not be so easily offendable. So we're gonna show up, we're gonna pray for people, we're gonna send them the verse, we're gonna show up to their kids' things, we're gonna take them the gift, we're gonna know when it's their birthday, we're gonna those types of things.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

And if you know you offended them, you're going to pursue them.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

Yeah. Hey, that was probably harsh.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:05

Yeah, like, hey, I've thought about it. I've noticed you pull away a little bit. I'm sorry if I offended you. Can we talk through that? Like, have the hard conversations, but over time, those will become easier conversations and it builds trust, it builds respect, it builds honor. You know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:23

For sure. And so that in the context of all of that, the thing that I wanted us to know, and why I said, listen, get into Christian community is that isolation doesn't kill your faith instantly. What happens is we get isolated, and then it slowly cools our faith until we feel like we're so far on the outside, right? We're like, oh man, it's almost too far gone. And then in that feeling, that's where the enemy's gonna go to work. He's gonna work in our minds, he's gonna work in our hearts, he's gonna work in our souls. Yeah, he's gonna get a spin. Like, nobody likes me, nobody wants to be friends with me, everybody lies about me, everybody talks behind their back, everybody is whatever, everybody's hypocritical, everybody's two-faced.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:04

The accuser.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

Right. But I, I'm the one who's mature, I'm the one who did all of it right. They're the ones who offended me.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

That's pride.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

Right, right. And so we have to understand that in isolation over time, the accuser just plants things, the enemy, right? He just is gonna plant things, plant things, plant things, and the things that he plants. If we don't make those thoughts obedient to Christ, he's gonna plant things that grow into poisonous things. Right, right. Right. We're gonna have roots of poison in our mind, roots of bitterness, as Hebrews 12 says. Yeah, and all he doesn't have to do anything else. If we're not willing to uproot those things, he doesn't have to do another thing. He can just let that that bitterness wreak havoc in our life. We will stay isolated, and all of a sudden now our fire, the white hot fire, is gonna cool because we're a coal who was taken out of a burning fire and just sitting over here by itself, just slowly cooling. So we have to understand that we've got to read his word, we've got to connect with him in prayer, we've got to get in Christian community, and then the last thing we said is we you have to leverage your fire.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:14

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Number four is leverage your fire. The first three are really about you and your personal growth, but at some point we have to see that scripture is clear from the Great Commission in Matthew chapter 28 to Jesus' words before the ascension in Acts chapter 1 to 1 Peter 4, 10 to 1 Corinthians 12, verses 4 through 7, that scripture is clear that we were given the fire with a command to leverage it for other people. It's I I don't know how else to say it. That when you read scripture, you should see that there are personal things that we can do between us and the Lord, between us and his word, and between us and the community around us. But all of it is meant so that we would be mature people who are leveraging it for others. Right? Which is why we read Hebrews chapter 5 earlier, verses 12 through 14. This is a chapter later, as he ends the whole discussion on milk versus solid food. He says, Dear friends, this is 9 through 12. Even though we're talking this way, we really don't believe it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation. God is not unjust, he will not forget how hard you've worked for him and how you have shown your love to him by caring for others, right? So as I mature and I grow in my love towards him, I'm caring for other people. Then he goes on and says, Our great desire is that you will keep on loving others. So now a mark of maturity is caring for others, and as we continue to mature, it is now he's now saying a mark of continued maturity is keep on loving other people. Right? Then you will not become spiritually dull and indifferent. Instead, you'll follow the example of those who are going to inherit God's promises because of their faith and endurance. And so we see that man, as when we talk about milk versus solid food, he gets to this place at the end where the mark of spiritual maturity is that you are investing in the lives of other people, that you are leveraging your fire. And we said there's three primary ways you can do it: time, talent, treasure, and those three can seem hard.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:27

And we all have all three of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

We all three have all three. And the the thing I want you to know is you've been given time, you've been given talent, and you've been given treasure, none of which is yours.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

It is in your possession to use, and the the Christian word is to steward, right? It's in your possession to steward.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

But the reality is that it's not yours. None of it's yours.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:52

It's meant to be given back to God.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

From the breath in your lungs that you wake up every day and you have another day, you didn't do that on your own. You didn't put the breath in your lungs. God didn't. You get up and you have a conversation and you make the sale. Awesome. Still, God gave you the words to speak. God, you like He's the one who gave you the ability to do that. He's the one who allowed you to have the ability to crunch the numbers, right? You show up for your kids and you're having you're crushing it today. He put the breath in your lungs. He gave you the desire to say, hey, you know what? I want to train up this child in the way that it should go. He gave you the wisdom to choose between this and that. You know, like all of that is his, the the time and the talent. So then the treasure that you have, if we believe the time and the talent is his, then it should be a no-brainer that the treasure is his. The treasure is just a result of us living our time and with our time and talent leveraged for him. The then the treasure that comes is oh, well, you gave me the time, you gave me the talent, of course you gave me the treasure. So now I'm gonna live with my entire being being for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:57

And a really simple way to do that. I'm always I always go to the how you guys know me. Just asking, God, how can I use this to glorify you? The breath in my lungs, the words that I speak, the money that I have, the money that you've given me. Um the talent. Maybe you're like super insecure with the talent that he's placed on the inside of you. God, how can I use it to glorify you and how can you use it to grow me?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:24

You know, just ask yourself those small questions so that you can take steps forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

Listen, if we don't want if we're afraid to leverage the fire, because we're like, well, what happens if like I give it away? The the mental image I want us to think about is when you think about a candle, and if you have a candle that's lit and you want to light someone else's candle that's not lit, when you go light their candle, does it take fire away from yours?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:48

Nope, it multiplies.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

No, it just multiplies, right? Like it's not like, well, you know what? If if I use my time and my talent and my treasure to leverage it for the kingdom, I'm gonna have less. Well, you will have less in that moment, right? Like you will. You like you can't just say, yeah, hey, guess what? I figured out how to add an eighth day into my week. That's not how it works. But you have to understand that we don't live for this world. We are temporary residents or aliens or foreigners, the word says. And so we are a foreigner in this world, but what is multiplied is in the the home that we are going to one day. All of it of what we've been given here, all of it is multiplied there.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:31

I was just gonna say that feeling of less is also part of dying to self.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:36

That's why it feels like you have less, really, just part of self is dying in those moments, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

Yeah, 100% right. You just we, I shouldn't say you, we can get so easily focused on what do we think multiplication would look like. Well, I I wrote that check and I didn't get one in the mail that's three times that much.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Right. Or I showed up and served and I didn't get whatever, or you know, whatever, however you want to.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:02

You didn't fill my cup.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Yeah, however you want to look at it, right? But yeah, fire that's past doesn't diminish and multiplies. And we have to understand that. And then as we close, and and I'll close with this, and you guys can add anything else you want. Is I want us to understand that fires need both intake and outflow. So we have to feed our fire, we have to nourish our fire. But man, for a fire to be healthy, it has to have an avenue for it to flow out, right? Like if you were to not have a vent on a fireplace, no matter how many logs you throw on, no matter how much diesel fuel you throw, no matter how many Amazon boxes, no matter how much paper, no matter how much whatever, that fire will diminish and eventually go out because there is no place for the fire to have outflow. It only has intake. And so we have to get to a place where as people who are leveraging our fire understand I can't only leverage my time, talent, and treasure and not do these other things. Yeah. But if I do these other things without leveraging my time, talent, and treasure, then I'm not living to be the fire that God has designed for me to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:08

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:08

Yeah. Which is just really exciting to me. Like to watch this church body go from milk to solid foods, go from consuming to teaching and loving others and encouraging others to watch that happen is such a beautiful process to me. Um, and we've already seen a lot of the fruit of that um just in and how people are growing in their walk with the Lord. Um, but it makes me really excited for this next season or this specific local church body um to watch to watch that growth. I see the hunger, so I'm excited to see what it looks like to start chewing on some steak.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else you guys want to add over there on that side of the room?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:50

Yeah, I think it's just sometimes you're holding the bottle, sometimes you're standing at the grill feeding others. Yeah. So Christian community. We need some more grill masters. You might be leading the Bible study, you're standing at the grill, but everybody's chewing the fake. Yeah. Yeah. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:07

That's really good.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

That's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:08

Some more grill masters. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

I would say too, just when we talk about like the Christian community, like I don't want anyone to hear that it's like, um, man, I I can't not be in this. My son has to be in this baseball league. So looks like I can't have Christian community.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Just as you prioritize that, like just because you're in the baseball league doesn't mean you still can't have Christian community.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

Um, but prioritize that as well. Right. And let your kids see how you prioritize that. For sure. Or else they're just going to prioritize the things that don't matter as well. Yeah. And or like you, like you just because you're okay, you gotta evaluate, like, am I gonna be in the golf league? Or is it gonna take away from something that I I should be going? And not that you can't be in the golf league, but like you said, if if your golf league's just getting drunk and talking bad about their work or their wives, right? Probably not something you want to be a part of. But like at the same time, too, like Jesus hung with sinners, but you didn't sin with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:16

So if you're gonna sin with them, you can't be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

I think the uh a concise way to say that is Jesus sat with sinners. Yeah, he didn't sin with sinners, yeah. Right, right, and like it's not the yeah, we can sit with sinners, we just don't want to sin with sinners.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

For sure. And so I want just like people to hear like doesn't mean you have to say, hey, we're not gonna be in the baseball league, but maybe we're not going on Sundays, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:42

Or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:43

For sure. I think it's a time for or if you miss a practice, like it's not gonna be the end of the world. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

Yeah, but Johnny doesn't get a start if he misses the practice. Well, I don't care. Yeah, I'm saying as a parent, there will be like I don't care if Oakland doesn't get the best whatever because she does like I want Oakland to love the Lord. I want her to love his word, I want her to love prayer, I want her to love his community, I want her to leverage her fire. Right? So I need you to be in a place where your fire is nourished, yeah, right, not diminished.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:13

Yeah. I think it's just our responsibility as parents, as Christian parents, to your point, Brad, evaluate our priorities. And I think in this next season, sit down with your spouse and evaluate your priorities. What do they look like in this next season and realize they're going to change as the calendar changes. But principally, like there should be one that is is a constant.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

There's nothing wrong with baseball league for your kid unless baseball league means that there is no spiritual growth for your family. Yeah. Right? But there's priorities, right? You're not gonna spend 168 hours of your week doing church things or Bible things or Christian community. So you're gonna have things like baseball league that you can't do. Yeah, I'm just saying if you can't do Christian community, it's gonna be things like your golf league, like your kids' baseball team, like the extra shift at work, like well, we just want family time every day from three o'clock on, and we don't want to spend time with anybody else, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:11

Like Christian community is essential, Christian isolation is not correct, correct. So you can be a productive Christian in the world as a part of the baseball league, as a part of the golf league, whatever that is that you're doing. As long as that priority is also in line with also having Christian community of some kind.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:32

Yes, or sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:33

Whatever that is.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

Yeah. Anything else? We should have made this a two-part episode, but anything else?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:39

Sorry, guys. I think we're good. We're good. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:42

Yeah. Uh we didn't decide who wants to pray. Who wants to pray?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:46

Zach, you got to pray.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Zach's getting finger guns pointed at him. He's working, he's working on technology.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:50

That means Brad's praying. Brad, you got it. Father, you're so good to us. And we just thank you that we get to have a relationship with you and that we get to dive into your word and just commune with the creator of the universe. And I pray that, Father, we can do that with others and um bring just things to the light and let you just shine through us into others. Um, let us take what um we heard today and just apply it into our lives, Lord. Uh, we love you. We pray this in your name in all God's children's head. Amen. Amen. Yes. Love y'all. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:29

Have a great week.