You're Not The Boss of Me - Week 2 Discussion - My Past Experiences

What does it look like to not allow my past to dictate my present and future any longer? Do I really have to forgive them for what happened to me? Can I forgive myself for the things I've done and the choices I have made? We dive into all of that and more on this week's discussion of Sunday's message.

The Chosen Link - https://youtu.be/JMj1ggINLe4

Boundaries Episode - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/navigate-a-tower-life-center-podcast/id1689684014?i=1000690807675

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:18

Welcome to Navigate, a podcast discussion from Tower Life Center, where we talk about how to navigate life, living as a follower of Jesus in a fallen and ever-changing world. Let's join the discussion.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

What up, podcast world? How are we living? He's back. He is back. Yes, who's back?

SPEAKER_06 0:37

We have Brad back in the studio. Praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Man, I'm thankful to be with y'all.

SPEAKER_06 0:41

We missed ya.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Missed you guys. That was the one.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

You don't get to miss any more.

SPEAKER_06 0:45

Feeling refreshed after your vacay.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah. Well, need a vacation. It wasn't a vacay. That was a vacay. It wasn't much a vacay. But yeah, I feel like this does give me life, though. You guys give me life.

SPEAKER_06 0:56

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I love that. That's nice of you. The uh yeah. Not the schedule is not the boss of me. That's right. Come on. There you go. That should have been another week. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:10

Not too bad to add on.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

That is a hard one to not let be the boss. It is too good. As we dive into part two, we're gonna be looking at our past experiences, are not the boss of us. Yeah. So if you're listening, maybe right now just think about something in the past and say, you're not the boss of me.

SPEAKER_07 1:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

All right. Which right now you don't get that. Two, three, say it. You're not the boss of me. I'm in the people listening. I'm gonna say it too.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

I'm reminded. We didn't practice that before.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

Yeah. In case you couldn't tell.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Hopefully you guys did it too. Yeah. You're not the boss of me. So uh yeah, our past experiences can um bring up some pain, can bring up some times, but we're reminded that in the midst of those things, um we can uh endure. And we can I think we talked when we were talking about I'm reminded when we were talking about the fruits of the spirit, like being patient is like the endurance through something that is hard. Yeah. And uh hopefully as we bring up maybe some past things or things that are still being worked on uh in our in our life that this can help guide us into what that can do to help us overcome those things.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm I'm excited to discuss this. Um I think that this is something that we we try to talk about annually at least, uh just the concept of my past and then how do I forgive through that. And um, I think what we did this week that was a little different than other times, is uh other times it it gets to be very practical about how do I forgive? Like what are some things I can put in place to do that? But today uh what we're gonna discuss is what we talked about this week, which is really understanding our past and how that probably is a deeper root and making sure that we have the right perspective on our past and understand the role that it plays so that then we can spend a little bit of time practically talking.

SPEAKER_07 3:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

But the way I kind of viewed it in my mind was was while some of our messages on on past and forgiveness are are very practical, I felt like this was very principled, right? Like we need to talk about the principle of our past and forgiving and making sure that it's in the right spot. And so we spent a lot of time uh in the beginning of the message, maybe not a lot, but a little bit of time, I guess, uh making sure that we uh all fall into probably one of two camps that would be an erroring on the erroring on one side or the other of like um how do we view our past. So we talked about do we underemphasize it or do we over-emphasize it, right? And we talked about the mental image of like if I'm driving a car, right? There's a rear view mirror, there's two side mirrors, right? Those are to help us look back, but yet the windshield facing forward in front of us is is far greater. It gives us far more perspective on where we're at currently, where we're going. But yet we don't want to um we said if we under-emphasize our past, right? That'd be like us knocking off the rear view mirror, knocking off the side, and we're saying, Listen, I don't need to be able to see behind me at all.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Right?

SPEAKER_03 4:27

I don't need the perspective of what's back there. Or we could be people who overemphasize and we just say, Hey, I'm turning my whole chair around, I'm gonna face backwards while I pr while the car drives forward. And if you were to do either of those things, if you were in your car and you knocked off all three mirrors, yeah, people be like, What are you doing?

unknown 4:47

Right?

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Like, that's crazy. Or if you figured out a way to jimmy rig your car and turn it around, right, to where your driver's seat's facing the other way. And I can look backwards while driving forward, you'd be like, get that person off the road. That's a terrible way.

SPEAKER_06 5:03

Unless you're in a Tesla. I'm kidding. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

That's true. This analogy would have made way more sense 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

I promise you, I trust God more than I trust a Tesla.

SPEAKER_06 5:13

There you go. Amen to that.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

That's funny.

SPEAKER_06 5:16

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

But so neither way is the right way to do it, right?

SPEAKER_06 5:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

We want to make sure that we're doing it in a way that is having the right perspective of our past. Like, how does our past uh inform us, making sure that it doesn't the isn't the thing that we're so focused on? Uh if you guys had to put yourself in one of those two camps, uh which where would you be? Yeah, I know you didn't know that the question was coming. I'll go first. I'll go first. I'm probably I'm probably uh take the side mirrors off, leave the rear view mirror guy. Yeah. Like I still want a little bit of it, but like let's we can get rid of the side mirrors. That's probably where I would be. I'd be on the the slightly underemphasizing it.

SPEAKER_06 5:56

Yeah, I think for me I've been both. I think that's what you were kind of saying, Zach. I think through different stages.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Zach, that's a cop-out answer. You have to have to pick one. Zach actually said it before. That's a Zach. Yeah, Zach. Zach's gonna have to pick one when it comes to him.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

Okay. Um, I think through different seasons of healing, I think before I was really on a a healing journey and partnering with the Lord, I think that I was definitely um somebody that would turn my chair backwards and just focus on all that had happened.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:24

Um, but I think as I partner with the Lord and work through the layers of my healing journey, I think I've been able to enter into kind of where you're at, where I can like knock off the the side mirrors. I'm not fully there yet where I'm just looking through the the um front windshield. Um, but I do think that it has flipped my perspective over time as I learn to partner with God in in that healing journey. Yeah. So I think that's been helpful.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

What about you two on the couch together over there? That's a mental image. Yeah, right. For the listeners, I I was gonna say both.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 6:59

They've got their arms around each other right now.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

How's it going, Brad?

unknown 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

No, I was gonna say I I would say both in the aspect that previously, if something were to happen, I would say in the interim when something bad did happen to me, I would be watching the rearview mirrors like what else is coming versus trying to look ahead. Yeah. But I think the older I've gotten or I've become in my relationship, probably I'm more like an 80s car that just has one rear view mirror. Like, am I getting ready to be sideswiped? Or what do I need to watch? What I'll you know, I'll glance back here and not necessarily be have the mirror that's there that I can just glance at.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

There's so few people listening who get that analogy of an 80s car. But for those who do, they're like, I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah. I think a lot of my like quote unquote pain would come from like looking too far ahead into the future at times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:58

You know, like even perspective, too.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Um maybe yeah, driving with binoculars. Yeah, yeah. But like maybe thinking about okay, what's next? What's like or maybe it's just like worries that not even worries, but like maybe it's like missing um the contentment piece. Yeah, um when we are looking so far ahead that you are unaware of the just current current scenario, just current blessings.

SPEAKER_06 8:26

That's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Or or patience too. I can see that like yeah, I know where I feel like I need to be, but why am I not getting there fast enough? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

The destinations and the GPS, why does it still say six hours left? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:38

Why do I feel like time keeps getting out of on? Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

So wherever we're at, that's good, which sounds like we're all in a little bit different spaces, is our past having the mirror to look back and to have perspective of the past isn't a bad thing. The way that we said it on Sunday was that if we're going to effectively address our past, we have to make sure that we understand our past provides an explanation, not an excuse for our present.

SPEAKER_07 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Right? Like, I don't want to downplay the past, I don't want to downplay what happened to you. I'm not saying that it didn't hurt, I'm not saying it wasn't unfair, I'm not saying it was okay, none of that, right? But I'm just saying no matter what happened, we have to understand that what happened only explains why we're where we are, not excuses what we're doing while we're where we're at.

SPEAKER_07 9:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Does that make sense? Yep. Right? And it can explain our actions, it can explain why I'm I'm quick to anger, it can explain why I'm quick to not trust people, it can explain why I'm overprotective, it can explain why I control, it can explain why I have fear, it can explain all those things, right? But then I have to do something about it. It doesn't excuse it. It doesn't say because that happened now, I have an excuse to live with the spirit of fear.

SPEAKER_07 9:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Well, the Bible doesn't say you haven't been given a spirit of fear, but you're allowed to live with it if something really bad happened.

SPEAKER_07 10:03

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Right. And so we need to understand that it to address our past, right, it's an explanation, not an excuse. And the reason that we have to have that perspective was um, I think the thing that I would want us to to begin to understand about our past is if we're not willing to address it, what happens is we see it as pain and we don't just carry that pain, but we uh begin to like subconsciously build our identity around the thing that happened.

SPEAKER_06 10:36

Right. Yeah, and it affects the way that we uh make decisions, the way that we treat others, yeah, the way that we view the world.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

You know?

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Right. It's just so this thing happened, let's say um and I think the example I used on Sunday was let's say you grew up in a family where there was divorce, and then the reason there was divorce is because there was infidelity. And especially the infidelity was from the parent who's the opposite gender of you. Right. And then you have this experience in your own relationship where somebody would have cheated on you, right? And then all of a sudden now you start to thinking you're like, well, yeah, that person also, or not that same person, but a person also took advantage of me at work or in business, or um or my kids take advantage of me now, right? And you start to see yourself as as well. I have all of these things, I just can't trust people, and now my identity becomes becomes I am someone who is cynical, I am someone who doesn't trust, I am someone who is unlovable, I am somebody who's not worthy of honesty, I am somebody who has to take everybody else's stuff. I'll take whatever you give me. You don't have to give me your best. You can treat me like dirt, it doesn't make a difference because I'm not worthy of.

SPEAKER_06 11:53

Yeah, it's like we almost enter into this uh victim mentality. Even if you have been a victim, and I'm not trying to be insensitive to that, but we take on that identity of victimhood with looking back at all that has happened to me. Yeah, you know, careful and mindful of that.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Because as we do it, what happens is we have this weird dichotomy in our brain of like I am behaving as somebody who doesn't trust. I am behaving as somebody who's cynical, I am behaving as somebody who has a hard time um being vulnerable and open to other people. But at the same time, even though that's what I think in my brain, and like the way that I'm also then behaving over here is I allow you to be walked, I allow you to walk all over me because at least there's something.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Right?

SPEAKER_03 12:42

It's like it's this weird thing of I don't really trust anybody, but I'll allow anybody to have this space in my life, and it becomes an identity thing uh more than it's just hey, I got this pain from the past.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

No, it's like this is now chains of bondage, yes, and like I think it can also ripple into a unhealthy part of who we become if we like have had that experience, and then we get to a spot where it's like, okay, I have been walked on. Now, like, man, I'm not gonna let anybody you know make my plans. I'm not gonna let anybody you know decide what we're gonna do. I'm not gonna let anybody, you know, get in the way of my thinking.

SPEAKER_07 13:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

And then now you're like this hard person who like maybe isn't super fun to be around.

SPEAKER_06 13:33

Right. Right. You go from one ditch to the next, and we need to stay on the road.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Yes, yeah, yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 13:42

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Uh, and so there's really two areas where I think we can spend much of our time as we're thinking, right? So so Brad would had us think about in the beginning something from our past that's not the boss of us. Right. I think there's two areas, right? There's the choices that others made that affected me. And I that probably is the pro the prevalent group of us, right? The the most of us, the majority who would say, Hey, the thing that came to my mind was something that someone else did to me. Now, there's also some of us who would be listening who we fall under the second bucket are choices that I made that affect me and other people. Because some of us can't think, man, who do I need to forgive outside of myself? Some of us, when we think that way, we think of well, I need to forgive myself. I shouldn't have made those choices. I shouldn't have put younger me in those situations. I shouldn't have done that to my spouse, I shouldn't have done that to my kids, I shouldn't have done that to my business partner, I shouldn't have done that to my friend. Right. And we're thinking about ourselves. And I think it's important that we understand as we go through this that no matter which bucket we can first identify with, we can probably identify with the other one as well.

SPEAKER_06 14:58

I was gonna say there's probably a third bucket where there have been things that have happened to you, but then you're almost justified in how you behave from that action. So you're kind of in in both camps.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's like somebody hurt me, so now I'm gonna go hurt other people.

SPEAKER_06 15:16

You feel justified in that.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Yeah, yeah. Right. And so to that point. Yeah, to that point, then our past can explain, but it doesn't excuse. Right. So my past can explain why I did that to other people, but it doesn't excuse me doing that to them.

SPEAKER_07 15:31

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

That's a good point. That's there probably is a third bucket. If I could go back in time, I would put that into the message. Okay, so no matter where we're at in this idea of do I look back or do I not look back enough? Was it choices someone else made or choices that I made that affected, right? No matter where we're at, the the path forward is forgiveness. Like that's that's the only way that we rightly respond to our past.

SPEAKER_07 15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

The only way that we can address it in a way that is healthy is forgiveness. Now there's a lot of probably different teachings on what forgiveness is. I think the only place we can start is talking about what does the Bible say about it. Right? And so before we get to some application on like practical, like how do I do it? What I want us to do is is see the role that forgiveness is going to play in the healing, right? The way that forgiveness is going to play and how do we rightly respond to our past. And so um, I think we have to understand that there's another choice that we're gonna have to make. Right? We're either gonna make the choice that where we're progressing in forgiveness or we're suffocating in unforgiveness. Right? Like we're either we're in one of those two spots. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 16:48

Yeah. Once we're beginning to address our past, I think we have to ask ourselves that question, like as we're walking through it, just a piece of awareness where it's like, okay, where am I at right now? A piece of reflection. Am I progressing in forgiveness or am I choosing to suffocate myself in unforgiveness?

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah, because the the reality is as much as we want forgiveness to be like, all right, I made that decision. Forgiveness isn't like deciding what am I gonna have for dinner tonight. It's not a one-time decision.

SPEAKER_07 17:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Forgiveness is kind of in that analogy, it's like, okay, well, uh dinner comes tomorrow. Dinner's still coming tomorrow night, yeah. And then breakfast.

SPEAKER_07 17:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

And then lunch, and then I'm hungry, so I need a snack, and then there's dinner again.

SPEAKER_07 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Right. And so you're constantly making the decision of how am I going to nourish my body, right? How am I going to do that? Well, that's kind of how forgiveness is. It's this ongoing thing that we can progress through.

SPEAKER_07 17:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

However, if we don't want to forgive, then we enter into unforgiveness because it's not neutral, right? There's no way to have neutral forgiveness. So we're not forgiving. So we have unforgiveness. And that's where we can look at unforgiveness and say, man, am I suffocating in unforgiveness? Because I think when you ask other people, I don't know, I would ask you guys, like, in the times where you haven't forgiven in the way that you should, right? Can you relate to the concept of suffocating? Right. Absolutely. Because I I would think that for me, I know I can. I'm like, whenever I'm sitting there and I'm just stewing. Right. It's like it's it's not like, man, I'm just filled with life and I'm light and I'm it's no, it's like, man, I'm oh I cannot believe they would have done that.

SPEAKER_06 18:33

Well, I mean, the joy of the Lord and that cannot coexist.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Right.

SPEAKER_06 18:36

So you're you're suffocating you're snuffing that part of the Holy Spirit out of your life too.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Right. Be a goldfish. You heard that saying? Why? Be a goldfish because they're the shortest memory, apparently. Be a goldfish.

SPEAKER_06 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah. Yep. Don't harp on it.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Right. And so it's like, lay it down. I don't want to suffocate in unforgiveness, but yet at the same time, forgiving isn't as easy as choosing to be a goldfish. It's a great analogy. Right. But then that's easier said than done.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Sure. Can we go back to the I I like food. So go back to the food analogy. Yeah. Were you kind of saying like in that because you said suffocate? So like the starving aspect of like don't starve yourself. Is that what you're saying? Because there was something that I was kind of going to add to that.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Go go back to my my point was was to forgive isn't a one-time decision. To forgive is this ongoing thing. But like, man, I can forgive that person, and then I can wake up tomorrow and somebody might trigger the thing that they did. I'm gonna have to be, oh my goodness, I've got to re-forgive them again for sure. And then I'm gonna be ignored or blown off or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Or not even forgive them again. It's just like, hey, I really I let go of that. I need to remember that I let go of like I do not why I do not need to keep harping on this. Yes, I don't even think I gave this up.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

And I think there's almost like a partnership that has to happen in that. Yeah. Like, so you're hungry, and you can either like kind of like you said, like make yourself a meal, like and and even in that, like say say you get home and you're expecting like there to be dinner made or something. Say there's not, and now you're like, oh, looks like I'm feeding myself. And then once again, that victim mentality is now there.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

But I think like keeping this food analogy in the presence, like, are you on a fast? Are you on a fast food analogy?

SPEAKER_04 20:32

Lord forgive.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

I need to I need to get there. But um, having this like mentality of like, hey, I'm gonna walk in, and no matter what the scenario is, I'm ready to like go and be a part of whatever needs to happen. Oh, hey, what what are we doing for dinner? What can we do to kind of lay out the the plan and like this having like open hands, and I feel like the same is with forgiveness. Like, I feel like a lot of unforgiveness comes from like expectations that just aren't met. Like, man, I I'm waiting for you to apologize and you haven't.

SPEAKER_07 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Well, it's like kind of opening up the conversation for it to be had, even if it's just something as simple as like dinner time. Yeah. Like, hey, what are we what are we doing here? Um, what what do we what needs to be done? How can I help? Yeah. And I think if we approach approach that the same way with like our heart of, hey, I'm just not trying to say, oh, it's it's not ready for me, or hey, you didn't do this, or like, okay, now I'm just I gotta I guess I gotta do it on my own. You failed me again.

SPEAKER_06 21:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

It's like, no, being open to like looking past.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Well, I I think the suffocating part about it is to your point, it's well, you failed me again. So you've already thought here's 18 times that that person has failed me. Right. And so the weight of all of that, if I'm not gonna forgive, is suffocating. And now we're just adding more weight, and you just feel like you're under the weight of all of these offenses. Yeah, for sure. that's a thing that we're not forgiving is these offenses.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Mm-hmm. And then the more that builds up, I think the more that your soul becomes more and more whether it's starving, whether it's suffocated. Yeah. And you're just more like feeling like the victim in all these different scenarios. And that can be hard. Yeah. Yeah. And I think so hard.

SPEAKER_06 22:22

To your point too, Brad, like you have to choose am I going to be completely self-focused or am I going to be selfless? Like going back to the food analogy coming home and you have the expectation that dinner's going to be made for you. And it's not, your your thing that you went to is how can I help? You didn't go like you get to choose. You're either going to go the route of I cannot believe you didn't make me dinner again. Or wow, you probably had a really busy day and there's probably a lot going on. So how can I help you? Like there's two avenues that you can choose there. You can suffocate in selfishness and self-focusedness. Or you can get outside of yourself and you can look at the other person for where they're at too.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Understand that they're also hurting you know 'cause the worst thing to do is to sit there and help with a crappy attitude.

SPEAKER_06 23:17

Yeah. Of like, well it's not authentic then.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Well the reason I'm helping is because you didn't have it done.

SPEAKER_06 23:23

Yeah. That's i don't do that.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Right. And so it's like, how do we approach it with the attitude that you just said of like Yeah. Oh man, like let me step outside of myself for a second. And then you the important thing in this though is like you still have to communicate like hey yeah. Like now this is where dinner is probably it's not about dinner. Right, right. That's a thing. Yeah. It's about the other 18 things that's like, well you failed me again. So you have to begin to communicate those things more. So that then when dinner's not ready for the lack of a better example or a different example, when the offense happens, that's not that big of a deal. It doesn't become a big deal because I've effectively communicated hey when you did that that hurt.

SPEAKER_06 24:05

Well and it goes back to naming it like you talked about last week. Like it's not about dinner. It's I don't feel cared for. I don't feel chosen. I don't feel whatever your root core emotion is that you're dealing with like own own that you know like own that that part of it.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:22

Name it.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah. Yeah. And then after 90 seconds make the choice. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. After 90 seconds is your choice whether you want to stay.

SPEAKER_06 24:31

That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

So all of this is fine and helpful. And if we stopped here we'd be it would be great. But we have to have the conversation now of what in the world is forgiveness and what is forgiveness not. Because if we have a wrong definition of forgiveness, if we don't think that man, like if I'm going to forgive the wrong way, it's not going to be helpful to me. Right. And I know that that sounds bad but like if I'm going to mess it up and I don't it's like when you're kids you're like did you mean to do that to your sister?

SPEAKER_02 25:06

No. Well you need to apologize. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Well that wasn't real. It's like well why'd you say it to me? Right. Don't say it to me. And don't say it like that because you didn't mean it. Yeah. Like I'm telling you as your father you did not mean it.

SPEAKER_06 25:19

Right. Yeah so take your heart.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

So yeah so forgiveness I'm just going to be like all right fine. Didn't have done we need a different example because probably most of our earls we're going to end up an Olive Garden ever listen. Listen. I've been trying to get there for a while.

SPEAKER_07 25:35

Yeah. Yum.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

No, so last week it was B dubs now it's Olive Garden again.

SPEAKER_05 25:41

And B dub's never happened.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

B dubs never happened. Yeah. It's this this idea that man I want us to understand what forgiveness is so that we can walk it out in a way that is truly meaningful in our pursuit of Jesus and our pursuit of healthy spiritually healthy and emotionally healthy and mentally healthy relationships with other people. Like that's what I would want for us is I would want for us to be able to say man I understand forgiveness and so here's the way that we said it on uh on Sunday was forgiveness is not saying that what happened didn't hurt. It's not saying that what happened was okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Yeah. Which pause like understand that yeah like we're not saying that it didn't it didn't hurt. Yeah. And that it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Yeah yeah yeah we're not trying to like gaslight you yeah right into saying well that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah forget about it it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Yeah we're not saying it was your fault. Yeah. We're not saying that it didn't cause pain in your present today.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Right? And and I stopped here on Sunday and I said I want you to hear me. If you've never heard it before I know it doesn't mean near as much coming from me but I want you to hear I'm sorry. And the same is true for those of you listening today. Like I know it's not the same as a person who offended you unless I'm that person. Right? But I'm sorry. Like I wish it weren't that way but it was that way and it did hurt and it does cause pain today. And you forgiving does not mean that it negates all of that. But what forgiveness does mean is that now my past my thoughts my beliefs my behaviors all of that doesn't own me any longer right I'm releasing it to God. And now what it means forgiveness means I have to work through the pain I have today as a result of what happened in the past.

SPEAKER_06 27:41

Yeah so that you can allow God to redeem what happened because he can do that.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

Yeah. And so the way that we framed the rest of our time together was forgiveness requires surrender to God as the example as the judge and as the healer. Right and and if you were here and you saw the slide that we had for it there were four words that were outlined in different color surrender, example, judge, and healer okay because we have to forgive or I should say rather if we choose to forgive we have to surrender to God. There is no other way to do it effectively. I would ask you guys and I would be great if you guys would disagree with me have you ever seen a way outside of God the biblical way of forgiving that works in forgiving people outside of God usually? Yeah. No have you seen a worldly source of yes yeah well yeah that's like saying sorry to your sister with a bad attitude right you're sorry but it didn't yeah it didn't work. Right it didn't stick. The only way I've ever seen it bring the desired outcome we want which is healing which is justification which is wholeness and which is the ability to live in freedom as much as you can in a broken and sinful world is only through God. And so we have to get to a place where we can surrender our entire lives including the offense to God.

unknown 29:21

Right?

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Like we have to get to a place where we say man God that hurt it really did happen. It really was unfair it really does cause pain today. It's all real now it's yours not mine. Right? And so as we talked about surrender we use John 1633 as a framework for this where Jesus is is telling his disciples listen I've told you guys all of this right he's outlining what the what his time uh the remaining time that he has on earth and then the Holy Spirit coming he's outlining all of this. He says I've told you guys all of this so you that so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows but take heart because I have overcome the world and I wish that I would have stumbled upon this part before I was basically done with the message because I think I could have done a whole message on this. And so I won't hijack the whole pod for this but I think it's important if you can go back and listen to the message that you would listen to this part of the message I'll just hit some high level stuff and you guys can you guys can stop me at any point. Okay. The the one thing that I I thought was just so beautiful in this is Jesus is says listen you may have peace you will have problems. Right? Problems are promised peace is proposed we have access to peace we no matter what what whether we follow Jesus whether or not we're going to have problems.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

That's the choice. You will have problems how you're going to deal with them. That's your choice. Yes you want peace or do you want to do you want to sulk?

SPEAKER_03 30:57

How do you want to handle your problems? Because you're going to have trials and sorrows he says yeah so I've told you all this so that you may have peace. It's not like a coin flip may it's not like well it may or may not rain. It's not you may or may not have peace you may like you have access to it. You are allowed to like when Oakland comes in and she's like I want a cookie like all right let's try again and may I have a cookie please yes you may I have peace yes you may right you will have trials and sorrows yes you may have peace and then the part that I thought was so cool was when he says but take heart. Amanda you were listening as you were driving home from a family event that you had.

SPEAKER_07 31:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

And I said one thing that I've learned and this was through counseling and through being married is that the most invalidating word someone can ever say is but right because everything before is now negotiated. Yeah. Or not negotiated is negated.

SPEAKER_07 31:53

Yeah. Yeah right even Sunday you said and the biggest but is yeah I got texts about that the biggest but I said that it's a big butt is what I said I had no song there.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Train off the rails. Yeah I think too though like it it reminds me this is what's coming to mind right now. It's like Jesus says the most important thing love God love people and when we love God we have peace. When we love people sometimes there's problems. Yeah right and so it's like loving God we find peace with in within the mets of people people in because there's going to be that I think um another translation would say like instead of take heart like be encouraged let me encourage you that you are going to have problems because of people because we're sinful but take heart like there's peace because of God.

SPEAKER_06 33:02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

And I think like when I think about this it's you know even this weekend I was picking up a a play set and we thought the lady that we picked it up from she thought it was going to be a long adventure and it went quicker than we thought and she asked us like hey do you guys want me to put on any music for you? And the guy that I was with was like yeah sure why why not and they're like she's like what do you want and he was like um you can throw on some anything Christian and she's like oh I don't have any of that and it was instantly reminding me of like there was something that was hurt with with her saying like oh I don't have any of that because of people she is not experiencing this peace that God offers but be encouraged. Like something hurt you and it was probably in um the church world of some degree or someone that you know represented that and maybe failed. Yeah but it's like it's again reminded Jesus is like be encouraged. Yeah I've overcome like those mistakes or whatever has hurt you like be encouraged.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Like so when he says but God covers all of it. When he says but it's not just like hey that doesn't matter. Right. What he's saying the direct translation there is oh just the opposite hey you're going to have problems. He's not saying but as if you're going to have problems but meaning that doesn't matter that's not true.

SPEAKER_07 34:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

He's saying you're going to have problems and just the opposite or and on the contrary then what Brad was saying it says take heart. But the translation of take heart would be have courage and a good attitude so you're going to have some stuff in life you're going to have trials and sorrows. You may have peace I promise you're going to have problems. Now on the opposite or just opposite or on the contrary have some courage and a good attitude.

SPEAKER_07 35:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Right? Why? Because he's overcome the world. That's why he says you may have peace not period you may have peace in me. Which is why to your point Brad you were hitting on it without knowing you're hitting on it is it's Romans 5 that says we can have peace with God the Father through Jesus who's God the Son. So through Jesus we can have peace with God the Father in Ephesians 2 is where it tells us that he brought us peace relationally with other people. So if we're going to have peace the only way we can have peace is through Jesus which is why he says in me you may have peace. And please hear me it is not you may or may not have peace we'll see how it plays out it is you are allowed to have peace if you're willing to have it in me. Yeah. Because I promise in or not in me you will have problems.

SPEAKER_06 36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

It kind of reminds me of that oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 36:04

I was just going to say we just have to desire him most yeah we can't desire the peace most we have to desire him most and he'll cover the peace aspect of it. But we have to desire him most over all the problems. It's really easy to just stay focused and hyper hyper focused on all of the world's problems.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

To hit on what you said earlier like we have to desire him more than we desire being the victim more than we desire being offended more than we desire being justified more than we desire empathy from other people who understand how we feel more than we desire a a platform to tell our story more than we desire whatever it is that we think is going to solve the hurt that we have yeah yep right like what if we would say hey more than the healing I want the healer yeah so good so good.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

It reminds me of like this uh I don't know if it was like a bumper sticker or something but like I saw it somewhere where it was like no God no peace which like no God no peace like no god no peace but if you K N O W God Yeah K N O W God You're going to know peace.

SPEAKER_06 37:16

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Yeah. And I don't know there's just something comforting in that yeah like if in the midst of what all this world can throw at you in the midst of the problems in the midst of the people problems in the midst of the financial problems like if this world was all that we had to hold on to I could see where that would be so overwhelming and you'd be like whoa isn't there more but there is more. And take heart right be encouraged have a good attitude because guess what y'all I've overcome this world.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

100% and you may know the scripture reference here I think it's in Hebrews but I'm not positive where he says we don't grieve as those who have no hope right we don't grieve the same as everyone else in the world as those who have no hope. To your point we have a different perspective and as believers as Christians we should be able to say hey you know what John 1633 says that we will have problems. Yeah it didn't say we might it didn't say we could it says we will even if we have relationship with Jesus now the hope that we have is because of Jesus because of what he did on the cross because of him we now have the ability to have peace in him because of him he died resurrected ascended and now the Holy Spirit or the spirit of peace descended like we have the spirit of peace because of him.

SPEAKER_06 38:39

Yeah I think too if we were able to shift that perspective and when the trials come when the problems hit when somebody treats you uh poorly we look at that as like wow like don't even give that credit I know it I know it hurts but in your mind and in your head space in your heart don't even give it credit just go to God and be like this is another opportunity that I get to build my intimacy with you. This is another area where I get to rely on you. This is another area where I get to talk to you about this. Like enter into the secret place with him. Like don't go and focus on everything that that person did or wanting to go invent to everybody else about what that person did or did not do or I don't know. I just think if we can flip that perspective and really desire building intimacy with him that changes how we deal with worldly conflict.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

What do you think about this? James one you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_07 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Because that's the one that's the verse I I always get that one and John 16 where it says when trials because yeah when troubles of any kind come your way or trials come consider opportunity for great joy. Like that relates here because if you were going to stew on it you are not going to have any joy. 100% release it and you will find the joy. Yeah yes and being able to put that behind you and rip the rearview mirrors off and move forward.

SPEAKER_07 40:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

Which is why we have to surrender to God. Yes. Right. Like that's why otherwise I will never choose joy when I'm offended. Right. I just won't no I'm a sinful person born in a sinful world who likes being the victim who likes being at the center of everything. That's who I am and it's who you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:28

Yep. Our sin nature is very egocentrical.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Only if yes only if I surrender to God will I say hey you know what God says consider it joy and then I should choose or yeah I should consider it joy when it happens. He says it will happen I can have peace and so I should choose joy. That's what God says. But if I'm not surrendered I will never do that.

SPEAKER_07 40:48

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

So I have to surrender. So now how do I surrender to him? Like what does that look like specific to forgiveness I've got to um surrender to God as the first is as my example. So if I want to know how do I forgive well I need to I need to say well how was I forgiven right that's why Ephesians 432 says instead be kind to each other be tenderhearted forgiving one another oh there's a command not saying hey have you tried it maybe it'll work we'll see it says forgive one another but then how do I do it? Well just as God through Christ says forgiven you well how did he forgive us well great question that nobody asked Romans 5 eight but God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners two things has to be sacrificial has to be unconditional that's forgiveness right yeah so I'll forgive you but you need to fix this first.

SPEAKER_06 41:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

There's that but nope it's not that's the but that is not the kind we want that's not what he's saying.

SPEAKER_06 41:52

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

And so he says God showed his great love for us by sending his son to die. Okay that is sacrificial that's going to cost something.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

That's his only son it says in John 316. He didn't have zillions of them and said this is the one I like the least you can have him he said I have one and he'll die for you. Okay. Sacrifice. Now it says while we were still sinners that's unconditional. Didn't say after we repented didn't say after we gave our lives to him.

SPEAKER_06 42:20

It's not after they say sorry to you it's not after they acknowledge what they've done.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Yeah it's not after they jump through your impossible course of hoops that you put up to say well now they really love me.

SPEAKER_06 42:30

Hit your moving targets.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Yeah right nope sacrificial unconditional if I'm going to forgive the Bible says the way I should forgive is the same way I've been forgiven. Yeah. How was I forgiven? Sacrificially and unconditionally right now we don't have time for boundaries. We did a whole episode on boundaries a long time ago.

SPEAKER_06 42:50

I don't know when it was going to find that and put it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Oh my that's my job. I have no idea we will have someone else find it for me and tell me how to do that.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

But it will be in the show notes hopefully maybe and here's the deal boundaries you have just because I forgave someone doesn't mean that there aren't boundaries in place. Simple example sounds stupid it's what I used on Sunday is if Brad stole my wallet right and he stole my money and I found out about it. I can forgive Brad and say man I forgive you I'm releasing that to the Lord without saying hey Brad I've got to go do this thing can you hold my wallet for me for a second probably not going to ask you to hold money for me.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Or just even to not even just leave in it around Brad Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

You know like yeah I mean like you know what Brad I don't know if I yeah trust Brad Yeah we're going to we're going to I'm I'm not probably not going to tell you something that's going on in my life.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

I'm probably not going to hang out with you as much as I did. Not because I'm still mad at you. I just don't I don't know that I trust you. Right? And so the way we said it was forgiving someone sacrificially and unconditionally is different than re entering relationship with them recklessly. Now I can't say, well you stole my money, so now you're dead to me. Right? Like that's not it's how do we have the right amount of boundaries put in place that is given to us through the wisdom of God. Right? God gives us the Holy Spirit, the spirit of wisdom. Right? So how do we do that in a way that is still saying, hey, I'm going to forgive you sacrificially and unconditionally. And this is where boundaries now become a very specific discussion to specific people and specific pains and specific past. And I don't think we can go any further on boundaries without having a full blown discussion we don't have time for.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

QA boundaries.

SPEAKER_06 44:50

Yeah. I will find it for you guys and we'll put it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Googie. That's what you think. I will Okay, great. Okay, so I surrender to him as the example. I also have to surrender to him as the judge. Now this is where surrendering to God becomes really hard in my opinion. Because to Amanda's point we like to be the victim. We like to have pain. But we also like to say if I'm gonna be if I'm gonna forgive them, they're going to also feel the pain that I felt. And once we are tit for tat, then I'm good. But that's not how it's designed to be that's not what forgiveness is. We're called to surrender to God as the judge. Now when we don't surrender to God as the judge and we think we are the judge what we're really doing is just living in unforgiveness. And we've used this analogy before we will use it again I'm sure because it's the best one I've ever heard I didn't come up with it. But unforgiveness is like lighting yourself on fire and hoping the other person dies of smoke inhalation. It's the same reason you feel like you're suffocating. I am sitting here burning ablaze just ticked off at what they did. I can't believe it. And let me tell you and this and that and they're gonna pay and I'm gonna make sure that they get that I'm justified in all of this I'm gonna make sure that they get the penalty right I'm gonna make sure that they're miserable and so what happens is every day you wake up and you are burning and you are on fire and you're hoping that when I see that person, when they read the text message I sent, when they see the post I made about them but didn't tag them when, when, when, when, when you're hoping that they're like Moy that's a lot of smoke.

unknown 46:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

And you're just burning we've all seen that post too by somebody who's like ooh wonder what happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:46

Who's that about who's that right who's that directed at yeah and newsflash the person that you want to see it or read it or probably won't they or if they do they don't care.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Meta's one step ahead of you meta's already taking them off your feet.

SPEAKER_06 47:00

Yeah but it's not going to serve the purpose that you want it to serve. They do not care as much as you do and you just have to understand that so that you don't continue to die of smoke inhalation.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

And here's the thing even if they do choke and die on smoke you are still freaking burning.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Yeah right that's miserable design for you to live that way right no we skipped over Ephesians 431 which was the predecessor to what you read for 432. Oh yeah get rid of all bitterness rage anger harsh words and slander like that was that's what he said before instead. Mm-hmm so get rid of all of that stuff yeah like all of that is gonna make you ablaze a hundred percent every single time right you will fester in it you will burn you will not be able to sleep fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_06 47:54

Yeah and the way that to to that analogy is like think about this if you are on fire because you haven't forgiven so you're burning right now right any amount of anger any amount of bitterness any amount of rage any amount of harsh words any amount of slander or any other evil type of behavior any of that is going to serve as oxygen or gas to the fire that is going to increase the blaze so get rid of it he says and guys your your body's so tightly connected to all of this when you have rage bitterness anger to see any of that in your heart your whole entire body keeps that score it feels it you're going to feel it like Zach said you might not be sleeping well you might have panic attacks you might be struggling to I don't know I mean it it stays in your body and so you're not gonna find joy right like God is trying to help you like it's it's toxic to your body too like get it out. Yeah be done with it.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

Yeah lay it down. So you have to surrender to him as judge so that you do are able to do that.

SPEAKER_06 49:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

So he's the example he's the judge and he is the healer. I have to surrender to God as the healer. Because we all want healed we just want healed our way but if we just say hey I'm not gonna surrender to or overprioritize a healing I'm going to surrender to the healer and allow him to work in our life like just imagine practically if you were struggling with chronic pain and you didn't understand the amount of unforgiveness you had in your heart and imagine just in a moment you decided to surrender all unforgiveness, bitterness rage, anger to the Lord and over time he heals that chronic pain because your body was so tightly hanging onto that and I'm not saying that's everybody's story but a lot of it can't be tied to that.

SPEAKER_06 49:51

So just imagine like wow if I would just start releasing this every single time it comes up to the Lord. Yeah he he can and he will heal me. Imagine that. Just imagine what that could look like for you.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Which is to your point of kind of where you're taking us is it reminded us of the story in John 5 where there's the lame man who is laying beside the pool.

SPEAKER_06 50:14

And every I have that story.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

Yeah and every day as it as it goes every day the pool would bubble up and one time and one time only and the first person who made it into the pool after it bubbled got healed. Yeah well this guy had been sick for 38 years. He'd been by the pool unable to be the first one in the pool as we find out um and so he had never got healed healed he'd been sick for 38 years. And so we picked up the story in John chapter 5 verses 5 and 6. It says one of the men lying there we're gonna find out that Jesus comes up to him one of the men lying there had been sick for 38 years. When Jesus saw him and knew that he had been ill for a long time he asked him would you like to get well right and I think there are many of us listening or who were in the room Sunday who have been suffocating in unforgiveness for 38 years or 38 minutes or 38 weeks or 38 months. Yeah right and we've been just we've been unwell in this area of our life for far too long.

SPEAKER_06 51:21

Jesus asked this guy he said would you like to get well and I would want to lovingly ask you listener do you want to get well right do I think this is the part of ownership that we can all look at and take into account do I want to get well or do I want to sit in unforgiveness?

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Right. But you know as I said Sunday you know what maybe maybe you can't relate to this so let's go back to the story. Right? And he says that like if we were there think about this if we were there and Jesus said would you like to get well wouldn't you be like Jesus are you serious you would really do that for me? Of course I want to get well right that's a no-brainer silly silly Jesus of course I want to get well I can't believe you thought you even needed to ask yeah right listen just tell me what you're thinking big J. Count me in we think that's what we would be like but how often are we not? We don't know yet let's let's play this out a little bit let's look at his response John chapter five verse seven Jesus says would you like to get well he says I can't sir I have no one to put me in the pool when the water bubbles up someone always gets there ahead of me what mentality is that right there victimhood right because he didn't say well I would love to he didn't say Jesus I would love that yeah what's your plan he didn't say Jesus that's a great idea count me in but here's the thing I would like to I've tried I just always get beat he said I can't he didn't say yes he said I can't and then he gave an excuse I think before we go on I just want to point out just the amount of unbelief this guy has right here just his answer I can't answer. If you're saying I can't that doesn't leave room to believe that God can right I I can't they took a part of me that I would never give back. Right I can't they're just like everyone else who takes advantage of me.

SPEAKER_06 53:32

Yeah I can't no one understands what it's like to be betrayed devalued have your worth taken and torn down I can't you don't know what it's like to wake up every day believing that I can't you don't understand you don't understand depression you don't understand addiction you don't understand I just can't I can't you weren't there you haven't been here for the 38 years.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Right I've tried I went to the class I followed the account on social media I read the book I did the thing I I just can't and I think too before we move on I think we have to identify too like what what is our well not not a um you know noun obviously but like what is what would make you well yeah like what is it that makes I need to get well from yeah like do you want to stop looking at porn do you want to start loving your kids more yeah do you want to be a better husband do you want to love your do you want yeah do you want to you know speak life and not death yes like whatever it is I think we have to identify what is it?

SPEAKER_06 54:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Like this guy knew I couldn't walk and I want to be able to walk yeah but I can't yeah this was a physical ailment but we all have either physical or emotional ailments that need we need to get well from yeah so so what do you think Jesus said right like I said let's play this out in our minds did Jesus say oh sir I'm the one who should be sorry I didn't realize that you'd been here for 38 years and you can't get well Jesus didn't say I didn't know. Yeah he's not like you're right man stay in that state sorry about you.

SPEAKER_06 55:17

Well he didn't even like sit and empathize with him really like he didn't sit there and condone his current yeah situation or his current status but instead well he didn't say he didn't do this either though.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Poof listen you have no memory of the last 38 years everything's perfect you're all healed and now I replaced you in some other place with an amazing house and an amazing family and an amazing job and perfect health he didn't do that either. No there was no instant John 58 Jesus told him this is right after he gives his excuse and to Amanda's point he doesn't empathize at all and I love it. I love it because so many times we want to be empathized with because we want to be victimized.

SPEAKER_06 55:56

Yeah right but we don't necessarily want the healing Jesus said stand up pick up your mat and walk can you imagine so many people if Jesus said that to them today they would be so offended that that's how he handled it.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Yes I'd be triggered because Jesus said that I'm more offended because he didn't affirm my victimhood yes he gave me this thing over here.

SPEAKER_06 56:19

Yeah when really Jesus knows what's best for you he's telling you just stand up pick up your mat and walk you you may have peace.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Yeah but stand up and walk.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

Yeah yeah yep so are you willing to stand up pick up your mat and walk are you willing to take responsibility for maybe not but then yeah it's are you willing to take responsibility for what God is asking you to do yeah not for what happened to you don't hear what I'm not saying. Right Jesus healed him he didn't say okay you are healed here's all he Jesus said stand up pick up your mat and walk in the faith of standing up picking up your mat and walking is when he was healed. Yeah right he didn't know he was healed nothing changed he just said dude get up pick up your mat and walk right God will heal us but it's our responsibility to stand up pick up our mat and walk he will heal and strengthen because I think about this if you haven't walked for 38 years imagine I think you mentioned that in the message imagine the muscle atrophy is that the word um imagine that I mean you really can't it would be so hard and painful imagine how awkward unnatural it would feel right to have been laying down sick for 38 years to just in a moment get up and walk. And so when I say stand up pick up your mat and walk we're talking about forgiveness right we're not even talking about physical healing right now. I'm talking about forgiveness do you want to be emotionally well yeah and if you want to be emotionally well it is going to feel unnatural and abnormal for you to not take everything personal for you not to sit at the center of victimhood.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

It's just gonna feel weird because it's what you've always done it's been 38 years for you not to as the story continues you could like he could have just been soaked back up into his shame again like the Pharisees or religious leaders like what are you doing? You're not supposed to carry your mat on the Sabbath yeah and I don't know but I'm not going back to that thing. I'm not gonna go back on the floor. Right like I don't know what happened yeah but here I am and I'm walking in this in this freedom so get behind me Satan type thing picking those chains back up.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

Yeah so under the realm of responsibility kind of the way we kept that discussion because that's so good. I love I love the concept of like it's gonna be so unnatural that you're gonna probably be second guessing how in the world am I doing? I just got in trouble for carrying my mat. Yeah I haven't had to carry a mat for 38 years.

SPEAKER_06 58:45

And that was the law back then for those of you that don't know that.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:49

You're not allowed to work or do anything on the Sabbath and so the Pharisees and the officials at the time they were also mad at Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Right so Jesus healed on the Sabbath this dude picked up his mat on the Sabbath and the Pharisees in their legalistic mind oh my goodness we don't have time for this right now but in their mind all hell is breaking loose quite literally there is this demonic person who is from hell in their mind who is teaching fair who is teaching things that are against their belief system. Yeah and they're like you can't heal someone on the Sabbath and why are you carrying a mat? Yeah and that dude to Brad's point is like um I don't have all the answers but praise the Lord I'm healed that's the man who did it and I am getting the heck out of here. Yeah right right and so sorry before we move on I don't know if many of you out there have seen or heard of the chosen um but it is a wonderful series and I highly highly encourage you to start watching it if you haven't already um but in I don't know what season it is we'll have to link it in the show notes too but oh my goodness homework I have it right here stop telling me to link things I don't know how to do that I will figure it out all I know how to do is upload it.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:04

Yeah that's a great imagery though it is and it's um you can actually type it into YouTube and just type in chosen pool of Bethesda. Yeah and it shows just obviously there might be some creative liberties taken in this but it shows Jesus and his encounter with this man that was the girls are in they're like bouncing all around so I couldn't tell you the exact episode right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Because if you've ever watched TV with Emmy yeah you can be in there and five minutes later come in and it may be a real life show or it could be an animated version of so it's like Egypt the star is born chosen like every time I come back in the room I was like this is a different show. Yeah but we actually just watched this and to me watching something versus reading it it was like powerful then when you get into your Bible which you should pair it together too oh my goodness yeah it brings it to life yeah like go read John 5 and then go look this up on YouTube.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:01

Pair them together my sister and I actually watched it after Kyle was done preaching we were driving home from Louisville together and my sister had never heard the John 5 story and I was like oh this is one of my favorite stories in the Bible let's actually look it up and and watch the chosen portion of it. And I'm not kidding you four and a half minutes later we were both bawling our eyes out on the way home from Louisville. So um because it's it is that touching like that's the power of the Lord working through this vehicle of of the chosen I just encourage you to watch it if you don't um maybe if you don't understand the weight of what we're talking about. Yeah it might help.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

To to cap that part of the conversation I guess the point I would want us to know is that God will heal us right we've surrendered to him as the healer. Now he will not live our lives healed for us. He didn't say hey listen let me grab your leg I'm gonna I'm just gonna put it up real quick here I'm gonna sit you up here I'm gonna roll up your mat. Now hey let me move your right foot and I'm gonna walk around and move your left foot now I'm gonna move your right foot no no no he just said dude you're healed get up pick up your mat and walk right God will heal us he won't live our lives healed for us but we in turn get to live our lives healed for him. Yeah it takes a a layer of faith that we have to subscribe to right because then to I don't know that I don't know who brought this up in the last three minutes but somebody said listen it was that guy who did it right so I'm healed now I'm gonna point to him he's the one who healed me yeah right that's what we get to live in for the rest of our time now hey I'm forgiven I'm being healed yeah it's a process yeah right but I can be healed and I can learn to deal with the muscle atrophy and I can learn to walk but I'm getting the heck out of here because that dude healed me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

I can take heart I can be encouraged I can have a good attitude I can yeah yep which is where your testimony comes into play.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:04

Yeah and it's what Revelation 1211? Yes. I think so yeah um the power of your testimony is incredibly important and it should be used to always point people back to the Lord and give him glory for all that he's done in your life and if you allow him to do this healing work in your life just imagine the testimony that's coming on the other side that you then get to share with other people that could be hurting in the same way that you are yep that's how we overcome Revelation 1211 says we overcome the accuser we overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb which is Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

Right right we talked about that sufficiently early on of like I mean it's only because of Jesus and now the word of our testimony. Yeah all right what else did we miss anything? I don't anything you want to touch on no listen Brad had Brad was gone last week we went extra today to get some extra time with Brad I know some people missed him we had to have some extra time so hey thanks for go ahead I think one one piece of encouragement take this to your small group your community group and start having this conversation I know we keep saying that and really harping on it but you need community to walk this out and do this with together and maybe start this conversation this week and just asking each other like what are some areas of unforgiveness that you have in your life and how can we be praying for you and how can we keep you accountable to that don't be afraid of that conversation and don't shy away from that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:32

Yeah you gotta find someone to do this with yeah you need God obviously right but you need other people yeah for sure all right anything else all right we didn't discuss who was praying Brad we thank you for this time we thank you for just the opportunity that we have to just have a relationship with you who are you are holy holy holy and we are uh undeserving but yet we thank you for the sacrifice that Jesus made so we get to encounter that Father and I pray that we live um as he did when he was here uh not focused on the things of this world to bring him satisfaction but he knew that he was loved he was yours and that there was a plan and I pray that Father we can stay focused on that same plan and that we can forgive just the way he did um of just uh loving those even when they were hurting him or took him to the cross father he says forgive them for they don't know what they're doing so I pray that we have that same approach and Father we just love you and we uh thank you for loving us we pray this in your name amen bye