Origins - Week 2 Discussion - Where was Adam? (Father's Day 2026)

Join us as we break down our Father's Day message from this week. In this discussion we talk about what it looks like to live out manhood in the way that the Bible lays out as opposed to caving to the world's distorted way of manhood. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Welcome to Navigate, a podcast discussion from Tower Life Center, where we talk about how to navigate life, living as a follower of Jesus in a fallen and ever-changing world. Let's join the discussion.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

What's up, world?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Hello, everyone.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Good morning. What if they're not listening in the morning?

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Then they can re-listen at a different time. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

You better tune in at the morning time. Start your day off fresh. There you go. After your time with the Lord. Yes. Yep. Absolutely your time with us.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yes. Hope everybody had a great Father's Day.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah. What'd you guys do? Happy Father's Day to the Fathers up there. Ooh. Yeah, what'd you guys do? I mowed.

unknown 1:00

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

That was probably pretty glorious, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah. You enjoy your mowing time too. I love them. And you like mowing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I play some music.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Nobody needs you for an hour.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah. Except when I have two girls sitting on my lap.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

That's true. Yeah. Lock them in.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

It's all good. Every once in a while I'll just be like, hey, I can't see.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

And then I'm going back in the locking the lines like slightly. That'd be so stressful.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

I'd rather not have a grass. Yeah. Than have curvy lines.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

It's uh journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Seriously. It's a it's a thing. So what did you do yesterday? So our small group of guys, um, we get together on Mondays and we did we do like an annual trip. So that was Wednesday uh evening till we got back Saturday afternoon. That was kind of like my more of like my Father's Day trip. Because then on Mother's Day, um I got Carly a Woodhouse Day scenario. Nice. And uh then it ended up not working for her to go on Mother's Day. Um so we So Father's Day worked perfect. So Father's Day works. So it was the best of both worlds because she got a I got a little treatment being on the guys' retreat that we did. Yeah. If you want to call it retreat.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Um, but uh so then she got a little spoiling or two.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

That's really neat.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

I love yeah, I'm nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

You guys are both feeling nice and refreshed after these last couple of days. What about you, Zach? What'd you guys do?

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Besides Mo.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Well, yeah, we were gonna go to a restaurant to eat or remain nameless. And we got there, you walk in, and the parking lot wasn't very full. I was like, Well, this would be great.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Walked in, there's a sign that said extended wait, short staffed. Like, all right, we waited there and waited.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Parking in the back. Yeah, kidding.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

So then the lady comes out and she goes, uh, yep, everybody called in sick. We have two servers and one cook. Oh no, and we might be able to seat you in the next 45 minutes. There's only like six tables seated.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

I'm like, what does the restaurant rhyme with?

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Um Applebee's there's no way you were going to Applebee's.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Were you actually going to Applebee's? Oh, yeah. I just wanted something fast. Yeah. Get in and get out. Yeah. So we were salsa girl. There you go. Where you would have wanted to go, anyways. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Come on. Emmy was happy.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Do your girls get the coffee now?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Uh no, not yet.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Next next time.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Have you gone there?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Pretty good. It is pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Pretty decent.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Oh my gosh. Oh, that sounds so good. Coffee.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Coffee. And salsa girl.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

What are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Happy Father's Day.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Yeah. How Adam screwed up. Yeah. Yes. Adam did screw up. That's right. We did. We had our Father's Day message this weekend and uh super unique uh experience where I gotta interview my dad. Yeah, that was really special.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah. Really sweet.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

It was super fun, and I don't know that I'll ever get him to do it again. Vic's one of those guys that you love when you meet him.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And then you love him even more the more that you just like get every interaction is like, man, I love this guy.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah. Man, I love this guy. Very cool. It's like truly just he's got so much wisdom. Just real life wisdom. Yeah. That's all biblically sound. And lived out. And all then lived out. Yeah. Like, it's so cool. Very cool. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Yeah. No, I obviously think so too.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

You see where you get it from.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Yeah. Um so let's keep going in. Anyway. Um, yeah, no, so it was I thought it yeah, it was special for me, and I think it was impactful for other people. And um, yeah, and so I think it's we we had a discussion, he and I, uh, but we prefaced it with the context of the series we're in, origins, the di God's design, Satan's distortion, and then God's redemption, right? That's what we're talking about last week, this week, and next. And uh we kind of set up how on Father's Day God's desi God had a design for men. Right? Like God designed us as men to like the first human he created was man. Then he created woman from man, right? But uh he created man and he gave us a design, he gave us a role, and we we see in the garden that the very first man, Adam, uh, probably didn't operate in the design that God had for him, right? And we kind of set up the whole thing in the context of this question of like, where was Adam? Right? Because last week we were discussing, hey, in the garden, right, everything, God created everything, everything was good until Satan comes and he tempts Eve, right? And Eve eats the fruit, gives them to Adam, Adam eats the fruit, right? They are have their eyes opened, they're shamed. All of these things. We see all of it. And the question that I've often or I had, you know, was like, man, where was Adam? Like, yeah. He must have been somewhere else. He must have been, you know, like out foraging. Yeah, foraging, perfect. Getting the berries.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

You know, like he must have been doing something. No way he would have let this happen.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

But it says in Genesis, I think it's chapter three, right? Like or chapter three, verse six, I think, is she turned and she just gave Adam the fruit. He was right there the whole time. Right? But the context of where was Adam He was literally in arm's reach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Yeah. So if he was within arm's reach, he was certainly within the reach of his voice. Hey, hang on.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

An earshot. He can't say he had selective listening, hearing.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

That was just thousands of years later, now today. Yeah. Yeah. But but where was Adam, right? So we we have this context of like, man, where was he? We see that's where he was. And the whole premise was what Adam failed to protect in the garden still affects men, marriages, and family today. Right. That was the that was the basis for our discussion. And you know, one of the things I said yesterday is it'd be really easy to look at Adam and be like, dude, what do you do? Like, how do you mess this up for all of us?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Like, how'd you miss that?

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Yeah, like I'm so mad at you. I'm so frustrated. My life could be different, my life could be easier, my life could be better, my life could be whatever. And we could still be in the garden if it wasn't for you.

SPEAKER_05 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Right? But like what I tried to encourage us with yesterday in the beginning was like, Adam's not the villain, right? Satan is, but Adam's not, but Adam can be a mirror for us as men. Yeah. Right? We can look in the mirror of Adam and say, man, where where do I see myself and in him? Or where do I see Adam and myself? And the reality is I think probably we see a lot more of ourselves in Adam than we'd like to admit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

You know? Or the opposite too, like what can I learn from Adam so I don't have to go through the same cycle.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Right. Exactly. How can I look ahead and say, okay, yeah, to your point, Brad, it's like, well, he did that. I don't want to do that. Right? And so we kind of prefaced the, you know, the the discussion, making sure that we honed in on it with like, hey, this isn't about hypermasculinity, this isn't about abusive masculinity, this isn't about aggressive or even progressive masculinity, right? It's about passive and distorted manhood. Because I think there's so much messaging around the in this world today, around what it means to be a man. You know, and like all of that messaging or much of it is wrong. Is some of it is, you know, a real man is, you know, we're gonna call it progressive, right? So it looks different than it did, and now it's it's it's it's I'm gonna use the word softer. I don't know that I have a better word for it. But then a lot of the messaging is like now swinging the pendulum the other way, and it's super aggressive, it's super harsh. It's like, hey, the more things in this world that you can conquer, the more money you can make, the more sex you can have, the more the less emotion you show. Yep, yep, just the harder and harsher you are.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Right? That's manhood.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

Rough and gruff.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yep, and it's not about that either. Yeah. What we were talking about was how because of Adam, there is now passive and distorted manhood because Adam's greatest failure in the garden uh wasn't aggression, it was absence while being present. Think about that. Yeah, he was absent while he was there. It wasn't just this thing of like, well, he was out foraging, so he just couldn't have been there. No, he was there physically, but not emotionally, not spiritually, not relationally present.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I think it's interesting how the enemy uses different like different tactics through time. Like I don't know what he was using to necessarily distract Adam in that time to keep him in a passive state. But today you look at where we're at and it's like, oh, we're gonna check out, we're gonna scroll, we're gonna go bench Netflix or something where we can just like zone out. And that's a way today where the enemy uses that to keep us in a very passive state. Men and women. Um but it's just interesting to see how his tactics are not new, but they just are creative over time.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

For sure. I think one of the biggest things we see with him being absent while present is the and I think I mentioned it last week. It's something that I had just recently seen as I was reading through this story in preparation. Like Adam in chapter 2, verse 16-17, Adam was the one who received the command don't eat from the tree.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

You can eat from all of these other trees, but don't eat from this one. Eve wasn't created till five verses later. Okay, what does that mean? That means that Adam is the one now responsible for carrying the word of God and communicating the word of God to his spouse, to his family, right, to others around him. Right? And so his absence wasn't just like a physical one, no, his absence was spiritual, and saying, Hey, you were given this responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah. Like And that's a responsibility that has to be received from the men today. Where it's like, okay, I I know that God has gifted me this responsibility, now am I willing to receive it?

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

And as we do that, it's not just a one-time thing because even Eve, when she was tempted, right? So God gives Adam the command, Eve's created, then Satan approaches and deceives Eve, right? And Eve wasn't like, Well, I don't know, I've never heard that before. She was like, No, no, here's what he said. So Adam did communicate that and carry it at some level, but probably much like many men today, and I can fall in this, and I'm sure you two across the room can fall in this, is like he did it at whatever the minimum requirement would have been to have completed the the goal of hey, make sure you carry it and communicate it.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

You know, and so and I think too, like, as um whether it's fatherhood, whether it's like even just a husband or whatever phase you might be in, but like having like maybe Adam, when you look at his like responsibility with that, maybe he felt like, oh man, how am I gonna communicate this well, or is it gonna be awkward or like whatever? And I think it's like almost like what I learned in that is even when we have like these conversations with like, you know, you might think like, oh man, I don't want to have this conversation with my uh daughter one day about you know this specific thing or boys or whatever, like just having it doesn't have to be like this lead up to this huge event where you feel like overwhelmed and how am I gonna communicate it? But more so of like just these little like it maybe it's little one to five minute conversations versus like this one huge hour talk that feels like did I say it right? But it's just like the lifestyle more so that comes with it. So that way it is communicated well and like if Adam just would have said, like, you know, hey, this is the why. And yeah, this is like and didn't have to go into much detail, but then over time just like kept on communicating the why, yeah, we probably wouldn't have gotten to the the reason right why now we're separated from the sure and had Adam even stepped in and said, Hey, listen.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

That's not what God said, but not even before that, like hey, we're not even gonna engage in conversation with you, Satan. Right, like that would be the thing to me of like that's where he should have the the most optimal time for him to step in would have been when Satan started talking.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Yeah. When he saw his wife, I'm not gonna debate with you, Satan, I'm not gonna argue with you. We're just not gonna talk to you. Yeah. Right? And because yeah, there's to your point, there's a million had he had a million little conversations about, hey, remember that's the tree? Hey, remember, listen, look at all these amazing things we do get. For sure. All that's a hundred percent right. But then the moment Satan starts flapping, right? Like, hey, we're not engaging in that.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, for sure. Because it's like we're looking at what we do have, not what we don't. Correct. You know, like this refocusing on the good, yeah, not on the what I'm missing out on. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

A hundred percent and understanding the spiritual authority that you carry, you know, as men, understanding like we do carry this spiritual authority, and the second we do hear the enemy like, nope, we're gonna cut that right here right now. We're not we're not even going down that, we're not entertaining it.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

For sure. For sure. And I'm yes, it's a but that's a weight, right? That's a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

It's a responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

It's a responsibility. Yeah. Um, because we we said it yesterday, and Adam's greatest failure in the garden wasn't merely in what he did. He didn't do something incorrectly, right? It was also what he didn't do. He didn't do what he should have done, which is what we're just talking about. And so for the sake of time, we'll keep this this conversation moving, right? We outlined before the questions four different distortions that we see of manhood right there in the garden, right? Four different ways that Satan would have distorted how Adam was uh behaving, living as a man. The first one we saw was passivity, right? And the way we said it was passivity is not neutrality. What men fail to lead will be led by something or someone else. Right? Like oftentimes we think that neutrality, if I can just remain neutral, I'm just gonna be what it who is it, Switzerland? Mm-hmm. Switzerland's a neutral one. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna be Switzerland.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Well, and even your dad says it all the time. Like, no decision is still a decision.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

No answer's an answer, no decision's a decision. Yep, no comments a comment. Yeah, yep. And so neutrality almost doesn't exist in a lot of things. Yeah. In a lot of areas, right? But passivity certainly is not marked by neutrality. Yeah. Because when we men fail to lead, whatever it is that we fail to lead will end up being led by something else or someone else. And we have to understand that Satan took Adam and he distorted God's design and made him passive. Okay, here's the second one, silence, right? We said one of the enemy's greatest victories isn't corrupt men, it's silent men. Right? And we we said, hey, wives, raise your hand if you think your husband is too talkative. We had one and a half wives raise their hand. We had one hiding your hand and one who raised it super high. Who raised it? Yeah, Zach, I don't know if you if you saw anybody around you.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Maybe Zach's wife over there. Maybe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Luckily Carly wasn't in there.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

No answer is no answer's still an answer. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

That's funny. So, but he got us to be silent as men overall, general. And not just in talking about things that don't matter, but specifically when it comes to the things that that do matter. Yeah. Right? Like so passivity, silence. The third one was hiding, right? Sin makes us hide from the very God we need the most. Um, and obviously sin is Satan's primary tactic for distortion, right? Getting us to sin. And so we hide instead of coming back to the God who created us, to the God who made us in his image.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yeah, it breaks our intimacy with our heavenly father.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Yes. Yes, and then the last one was blame shifting, right? Distorted manhood is gonna avoid responsibility. Why are you laughing?

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Just the the amount of guts that takes to blame God, God and your wife.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, yeah. That's convicting.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Yeah. I'm sure it really I mean it really is, and it's like And it can go both ways for women.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Like I'm not I'm not shaming the guys in the room. I'm I'm saying that's convicting on both sides. Like women do it too. You know, we blame God, we blame our spouse, and it's like, oh, hold on. We need to blame the real, the real enemy here.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

What I thought is so funny about that is he said, Well, it was the woman that you gave me that you gave me, and then he slips in at the very end, and I hate it. Yeah, like I did it, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:31

So he's taking personal responsibility. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

I don't even think he's taking responsibility. He's just like, I know you know I did it.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah, so I kind of put it out there.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Yeah, let me tell you why I did it though.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

I did it because you gave me her, and let me justify it. Your fault and her fault. Yeah, yeah. Not my fault.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

Two is greater than one. Yeah, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

So blame shifting, right? The four distortions we saw passivity, silence, hiding, blame shifting. Then we had my dad come up and we just had a conversation. And there are four questions. The first question we asked is assuming that we can all kind of say, Hey, I can understand where we're at talking about this, then what's the first thing I would do if I want to move from distorted manhood, what we just outlined, to biblical manhood? Right? What's the first thing I would do? Um, and his his answer centered around this conversation of saying, where do who do I identify with? Am I going to identify as an Adam man? Or am I going to identify as a follower of Jesus, as a Jesus man, right? Like somebody who's trying to be like him. Right. And that's a salvation thing.

SPEAKER_04 19:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

And it's a sanctification thing because I can make that choice and should make that choice when I'm thinking about eternity in heaven and hell. Right. But then I have to make that choice every day when I get up. Am I gonna shift blame or am I gonna, as we'll talk about later, accept responsibility?

SPEAKER_04 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Those are the like when it comes down to what's the very first thing I would do.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

The other part I really liked um what he said, he said if I want to. Yeah. So he he really hit on that desire. Like, do I want to be Adam? Or do I want to be someone made in Christ's image? Do I want to continue to pursue that? And that that truly is a desire that you have to pray for.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah. Well that's that's where the choice that's where he brought up the choice. Like it is a choice. Okay. Like if you don't want to, that's a choice. You don't want to, but then you're also gonna stay distorted. Yeah, and there's consequences to your choice. So you have to want to. Yeah. If you don't want to, that's fine, but you're gonna be distorted and life's gonna be real hard. Life's gonna be hard, and guess where you're going. Probably.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Right?

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Right. And it's it's but there is that is a good point to bring up of like the personal choice we have in this. Like every day, man, when we get up, we get the choice to say, Hey, am I gonna choose to pursue Jesus and to be like him and to love my wife like him, my kids like him, to behave at work like he would behave, right? No. Um so Brad was on his little uh what you call it, retreat, a guy's whatever you called your thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

I don't there's not a specific name for it, but it was life-giving. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:14

Yeah. Yeah. You and so a couple weeks ago I went on a similar one. And I I it was so funny. One of the guys asked, he said, What would Jesus be like as a husband? And it's like, okay, so every day we get the choice to wake up and say, Whatever I think Jesus would be like as a husband, as a dad, what would he be like as somebody who runs a company? What would he be like as a pastor? What would he be like as somebody who's going grocery shopping? What would he be like as somebody who's gonna what would he be like? And am I going to choose, do I want to be like that?

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Because that's what I think that's what you were saying, Amanda's like there's this choice in this.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, there's a true desire, and you can't make that decision in pride. You have to have a spirit of humility. And I think that that again goes against cultural masculinity, too. You're fighting that um pride versus humility. There's a lot of we all have pride, but like there is a lot of prideful men out there that prevent them from choosing biblical manhood.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah. I think this is where my dad said, I don't know, maybe it was at the end. No one likes to be called an idiot. Yeah. Right? Like no one likes to be said, hey, you missed it. Hey, you were wrong. Hey, that wasn't right. That wasn't good enough. Hey, that, that, that. Right? And so are we willing to have the humility to say, hey, I missed it.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I am missing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

I am missing it. Right. Are we willing to step into the authority, even men, to say, hey, you know what? What you're saying, whether it's your wife, whether it's your kids, whether it's your work, your boss, whoever, hey, what you're saying is actually untrue.

SPEAKER_05 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Like there are areas I'm missing it. This is not one. Yeah. But I'm going to challenge you, and I think maybe you're missing it. Maybe your perspective's off. Hey, listen, we're not talking to Satan. Hey.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, we're not going to believe that lie in this, he says. Like, let's let's get to the root of the lie. Let's talk through it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Yeah. And so then he brought up this graph that had, you know, it's it's tough to to talk through. I didn't even think about having to talk through it till right now. But if you think about a graph that has like the top right quadrant of a graph, right? And on the vertical axis or axis is this con this concept of holiness or perfection. Right. And on the horizontal axis is time since I've been saved. So if you think about it where the two axes touch is the moment of salvation that you would have, right? His point was that I've got to choose Jesus every day. And over time, I'm going to have highs and lows. Right. I'm going to have good seasons and and hard seasons. I'm going to have days where I crushed it as a follower of Jesus, as a dad, as a husband, as whoever. And I'm going to have days where, man, it I I missed it. Mm-hmm. Right. And overall, the goal is can we approach holiness on an up and to the right scale? Yeah. As we get further from salvation, which means are we being sanctified? Are we growing?

SPEAKER_05 23:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Knowing that there will still be lots of ups and downs.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

But overall, are we moving up and to the right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. To look more and more like Jesus. Yes. Because the more we look like Jesus, men, the better husbands will be, the better dads will be, the better employees and employers, and the better friend will be in the all of that. The more we look like Jesus, the better we are following him, the better we'll be at everything else. Now go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

No, I was just gonna say right now feels like a uh perfect time to just speak to the men that may not have had um a a good biblical example of a father. I know that was some feedback that we got after yesterday. Um you know, I don't know what it looks like to be a biblical man. I didn't have that example. I I don't know how to raise my kids in that way because we don't have a man leading our home. Um so I think just going back to Yeah, we have Jesus, we have the Bible, we have God who is the perfect example, and there may not be an earthly example that's leading.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Sure. Um I think that we get really good, and I'm not talking to these people specifically as well. As humans, we get really good at saying, Well, I never saw somebody I never saw what a I never had a good dad, so I can't be a good dad. I never saw somebody steward their money well, so I can't steward my money well. I never saw a healthy marriage, so I can't have a healthy marriage. I never saw someone make good health choices, so I can't make good health choices. I never saw fill in the blank, so I can't.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

That's the lie that we can choose to believe or not.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yeah, the the truth is you might not have seen a healthy marriage.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Now, you have a whole book called the Bible that tells you what it looks like to have a healthy marriage. So are you willing to do the thing that you haven't seen but have read about?

SPEAKER_00 25:46

And you have a heavenly father that you can get to intimately know and he will teach you, he will guide you, he will lead you in the right way. Um, which is just again his design for the intimacy that he had originally intended.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

Yeah. And I think that is a it's a good point to make of just like understanding because of the distortion of Satan and the broken and fallen world we live in, uh not everybody had a perfect heavenly or earthly father, not everybody has seen a great marriage, not everybody has seen what it looks like to live some pursuing Jesus like generationally. Not everybody has seen that. That's part of the broken sinful world, but part of God's redemption is he left his word in our hands.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yeah, and just speaking to those people, like you're not alone in that. It's we're at a forty-eight percent uh divorce rate today. So forty-eight percent of people in that room are probably sitting somewhat close to where you're at and what you were thinking and the thoughts and emotions you were feeling.

SPEAKER_04 26:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Um, so you're not alone in that, but remember that God is greater, God is your counselor, God is your your dad, your heavenly father. Yeah, yeah. Um, and he's ready to walk with you throughout all of this, and he can and will redeem what you did not have.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, well, there could be people sitting there or guys sitting there that are in that 48% lead heading the wrong way.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

That it's a perfect time to turn it around.

SPEAKER_05 27:11

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Like it's not it's not a downhill where that you can't stop the roller coaster and get back up the hill. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Up the hill is hard. Up the hill is hard. It's not gonna be easy. Yeah, but it's not but getting out of the pit that's a it's not a one-way trip either. Yeah. A hundred doesn't have to be.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

And you have this church body, which is so cool. I mean, there's so many men in that room that are hungry, that are desiring biblical manhood. Um, so lean into that. I encourage, I encourage you to lean into that.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Yeah, that's good. So then the second question was what are the primary ways that Satan has distorted God's design for men? So in the context of we asked my dad in the context of his 70 years of life, how have you seen Satan distort God's design for men? And he outlined three buckets. Um he said, if if I had three five gallon buckets in here, I'd set them across the stage. The first one would be sex, the second one would be how we spend our time or work, and the third one would be money. Um and he kind of broke down all three of those and how you know Satan has distorted each of these things that God gave us that aren't bad things. Just how do we use them?

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, they have a design and a purpose.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, Satan's distorted those.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

What are you laughing at?

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Well, we're we're suck at it because guys don't like to read instruction manuals. I thought that was really chronically.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

Yeah, it was so perfect. Well, was that with a chainsaw? So the so Levi Lesko, if you've heard of Levi Lusko, he did a great book on on sex and just really probably not even sex as much as lust, yeah, and the culture of what was really common about 10 years ago, swiping on dating apps and all of that, right? And that might still be popular, I really don't know. But like he did a book on this, and his thing was God designed sex for our pleasure, but he created it, so since he's the creator, he's gonna put guidelines and guardrails around it. Now, if we were to go to Lowe's, his point was you go to Home Depot, you go somewhere, and you go buy a chainsaw, and you're not super familiar with chainsaw, right? You're gonna go get it, and they say, Hey, here's what you should do. Wear safety goggles, do this, don't do that, make sure when you start it, do it this way. Nobody's mad at the chainsaw company for saying that. Nobody's like, why would you give me instructions? Yeah, you understand that it's for your good.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Yeah, or if you don't read the instruction manual and you cut your leg off, well, because you didn't read the instruction.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Right. Yes, exactly. Yes, but nobody's like, I cannot believe they think I'm so dumb that they like they they don't know. I know how to use a chainsaw better than the people who made it. Yeah, no one thinks that. Right? But when it comes to sex, it's like, man, God's oppressive. He doesn't know, like, he doesn't know what I need. How would I know if I want to marry that person if I don't have sex with them first? How would I like Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Try before you buy.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Yeah, or yeah, try before you buy.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

I'm a man and I have needs, doesn't he understand that?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, right. Right, you know, and then to Vic's point, he was like, Oh, it all makes sense now because guys just typically open up a box and throw away the instructions.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

He's like, No wonder we misuse sex.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

We don't like to read instructions, was his point. Right, right. But once again, like you said, in the context of how God created it, yeah, it's it's beautiful, beautiful, and in the sense of like, yeah, unifying and um, but how you know, I just think of like when we apply God's word to our life, like whether you believe in God, I don't know where you know pe all everyone's at, or you believe everything the Bible says, if you apply it to your life, it'll make your life better and those around you. Yeah. So why would you not want to just trust in the faithfulness of God and his word? Yeah, yeah. And to do that, you once again have to open up the instruction manual and read it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

It's uh for anyone that's listening, that book was Swipe Right by Levi Lesco. Yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

And I would say that book is far more um helping understand God's design for sex and fighting against lust or the addiction of pornography or hookup culture, those types of things. Yeah. More than I would say I would prescribe it for husband and wife to say, hey, how do we become more intimate? Yeah, for sure. Unless the intimacy gap lies in pornography.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

I was gonna say the intimacy could be broken from a lot of those things.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Yes, right, yeah. For sure, for sure, for sure. I just like yes, I want to be clear on the resource that I was not planning to endorse, but I think it's a great resource. Yeah. Um so he talked about sex in that way. Then he talked about time and uh work. Time and work, right? And how do we view time and work? Is that a defining thing for us? Is that something where we get our identity? Is it like God created it? He rolled out just like sex was be fruitful and multiply, he rolled out, and here's now the role that you're gonna fulfill on this earth. He gave us time, he gave us work, he gave us things to do, you know, and to my dad's point, I think he said if you take out sleep and eating and going to the bathroom and just whatever basic things, you're gonna have somewhere around a hundred hours left every week to use at your discretion, everyone. No one has uh now uh when we say to use at your discretion, you're gonna go to work, you're gonna feed the kids, you're gonna change diapers, you're gonna do whatever, some of that you don't want to do, but you have to keep a human alive, you have to go to work to get a paycheck, right? Uh but at the end of the day, we all still have a choice. Uh how are we going to spend these moments? Right? He tells us, Amanda, all the time, 86.4. Yeah. 86.4. That's how 86,400 seconds a day. That's how many times I have to realign with the with the Lord. What what is he asking me to do?

SPEAKER_00 33:02

How many opportunities you have to make choices, decisions?

SPEAKER_03 33:06

Yeah. Yep. And am I gonna am I gonna make these choices and these decisions for the glory of God or for the glory of self? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

And I think it's so easy to like naturally our instinct is what's in it for me. Yeah. Like he shared the example, your dad. And if you have not, if you didn't it tune in or weren't here on Sunday, man, go listen. Go listen. Yeah, it was so on YouTube. Yeah. How old is Vic? 70. 70. And man, just so much just good stuff that you were able to share, you and your dad together. But like he he shared about this um um time here. He's on a missions trip and just getting to the missions trip area. He was uh in a car with a guy named Leroy that was driving him. Yep, it was 5 a.m. early. Do you think Vic wanted to talk to Leroy?

SPEAKER_03 33:56

He's been up for two hours. He was I was about ready for lunch already.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Yeah, right. Yeah, he woke up at 3 a.m. for sure. That's totally Vic. Once again, yes, go like awesome being awesome. But to his point though, is like, you know, he could have just oh man, I've been up for like two hours, an hour, whatever, even if you were up for 15 minutes. Naturally, our instinct is just like, okay, here's some silent.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

But instead, he decides to start a conversation with Leroy.

SPEAKER_05 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

And right away he says Leroy kind of expresses that he's not a believer. Yeah. And Leroy thinks, like, hey, after this life, uh, my spirit goes into the next baby, and another little Reloy Leroy is born. Yeah. Maybe his name's not Leroy, but it's maybe it's Reloy. Maybe it's that one.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Reloy.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yeah, like all these things. Reloy. Where and then he he just challenges Leroy with the uh piece of if you're wrong, you know, wrong, that sucks. Yeah. That's that's not good. If I'm wrong, like I'm okay, I maybe wasted my life. Yeah, but I even like that saying because it's like, man, I feel his presence. I I allow like the Holy Spirit to just like man work in some different avenues all throughout our life, like, and I I feel his closeness. Right. But then on the other side of it, it's like, man, if you're wrong, yeah. That's an eternal case. You've wasted eternity. So it's like to put that into perspective. And but with that, it took a little bit of maybe some uncomfortableness or on Vic's side. On Vic's side. But is it worth it?

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

And you gotta ask yourself like kind of that I want to mentality. Yeah. You know, I want to hopefully change Leroy's destination for yeah, eternity. Really?

SPEAKER_00 35:54

And I think too, when like you had mentioned earlier, Brad, when you apply the word of God to your life and you are truly going out and making disciples and all the things, um, you're getting reps in. So that was just another rep for Vic. Like that is that becomes the lifestyle. Like you're constantly concerned about people's eternity. For sure. You're constantly asking those questions because you genuinely care. Yeah. You want to know where are you going?

SPEAKER_01 36:21

That's so good. You know, I think reps are so important and at first they're awkward.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

You know, for sure. It's like working out. Yeah. Or you think about like dribbling a basketball. Yeah. Like you see all these kids, like we have this ministry at our church, upward.

SPEAKER_05 36:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

And like even just the progression they make in those eight weeks. Wild. The the wild progression is if they stick with it from kindergarten to eighth grade.

SPEAKER_05 36:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Like it took time. They weren't just good dribblers, but some of them, you know, probably still aren't great dribblers at eighth grade because they're only getting the reps right in that eight-week season. Yeah. So it's like being consistent. It's a lifestyle. Yeah, it's a lifestyle. Yeah. But we won't expect to become a better dribble if we don't practice. Yeah. We don't expect to become like, you know, super comfortable talking about Christ with someone that doesn't isn't a believer. Yeah, for sure. We're not doing it.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

And I think when it is a lifestyle, your children see that. They feel it. They're in those moments with you. I don't know what it was like for you growing up with Vic as your dad and Peg as your mom, but I'm sure there were many moments where they were they've always been concerned about people's eternity. So I'm sure you that was your lifestyle you grew up under. You constantly saw that lift out. And so I think for us as parents today, that's really convicting too. Where it's like, okay, how often are we caring about others? Yeah. Eternity, not just on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

And maybe too. It's bringing it to the Lord in prayer, like, Lord help me.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah, give me an opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

More though.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

About those that don't know you.

SPEAKER_05 37:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

And I think it will change like our perspective of the city. Open my eyes so I can see it.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

I think one thing that as you guys are talking about this, it sticks out from my experience growing up. Because I don't feel like my dad was pounding pavement with hellfire and brimstone.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

No.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

And I'm not saying that you're suggesting that. I'm just like when I think through that, it was his life, but I don't think you can adequately care about somebody's heaven and hell eternal destination if you don't care about what's going on in their life. If you don't care about their marriage, if you don't care about their family. Like Leroy is a unique example because he was a driver from the orphanage to the airport, right? Like that's unique. I think what I experienced growing up was people who would have lived their entire lives to say, hey, we care about you as a person, which includes your eternal soul. Yeah. But we're gonna care about your marriage, we're gonna care about your family, we're gonna care about Well, just growing up, like you had people in your house all the time.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

What was it, Monday night? They would host a group of guys.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

They'd stay at your house till one, two in the morning, just because that was being in relationship with them. Yeah. They were walking alongside those people.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

It was interesting. He didn't talk about this yesterday, but if we would go if we'd back up, you know, two buckets or a bucket to the sex bucket, you know, he was saying how he's like, if you don't think that sex is more damaging than a seatbelt violation, because he did bring up that. Oh yeah. But he didn't bring up this piece of like, he's like, if you don't think that it's more damaging, he said, I wish I could go back in time and take you to a a room to a basement full of of 16 to 18 year old guys who are crying over an addiction to sex, to having a fatherless home, to like those conversations. He's like, Men, if you don't what what we were talking about was like, men, if you don't think that it's important that you're present and engaged and that it doesn't have long-term effects, including distortion of sexual desires, like we see statistically. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

He's like, I wish I could take you back to the basement that had all these guys who are crying over the consequences of not having dad. Of an absent father. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Yep.

unknown 39:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

So good.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

And so sex bucket, time and money, or time and work bucket, then you had the bunny bucket, right? And that could be its own thing. Um, but really, you know, he had a handful of questions that he said, Hey, to help you identify how am I stewarding this money well? He said, number one, and you can't even say I probably made an assumption, but number one is whose money is it? Right? Like, men, is it your money or is it God's? And then even like a sub-question of that is like, is it God's that he gave me to spend how I want? Or is it God's that he gave me to steward for him? And he's the one who ultimately dictates where it goes and when and how. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

And then he even went further to say, like, okay, so you made your money because you're smart. Well, who gave you those smarts? Yeah. Right. You know, I remember there was a conversation in high school where um a friend of mine, um, her sister got a job, and uh, I remember someone's response was, Oh man, thank God like that worked out. And the guy was like, Thank God, I'm the one that lined it up for her, I'm the one that got her the job, I'm the one that got her the interview, I'm the one that made those connections. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

And it's just like who gave you those connections? Yeah, who gave you the breath in your lung to have that conversation?

SPEAKER_01 41:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

It's like who gave you that drive and that desire.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah, I know. And it's just like bringing it back to Again, pride, the creator, yeah, and all things.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

But like I think the thing that it's like to that point, I love that example because it's like all the things, Amanda, you just said, who gave you those things? Who gave you breath in your lungs? Who gave you thumbs that were mobile to text the person? Who gave you the brain to think that I should do that? Yeah. Who get like who gave you the mobility in your hips to like take the next step and then your knees flex just the way like get I like it's get over your get out of here with like the the dumb thought process of like I did it. I did anything.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah. Which again, pride and humility. Like, we have to break down that pride. Yeah, we have to understand it is not us. He is far greater. His thoughts are higher, his ways are far better than we could ever even imagine. And we have to grasp that concept. Yeah, but we can only grasp that in humility.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

We can't grasp that because each of those buckets are none of none of them are your own. Yeah. Like you you want to say sex, well, that's my no, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Like your body is a temple that he has given you to steward.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

But the Bible said your body is not your own, it was bought with the price. Yes, right. Like purchased by the blood of the lamb. So now what I do with my body, sex included, but not exclusively sex, right? How do how do I use my hands? How do I treat my body? All those things. What I do with my body is not my own.

unknown 42:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Then you get to the next one, and it's like, well, my time's not my own either. Like I've been given time just like I've been given financial resources. None of those three buckets are my own. The question is, how am I going to steward each of those things?

SPEAKER_05 42:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

And the money aspect, something easy to follow that he mentioned was is it a need or a greed?

SPEAKER_05 42:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

You know, which's a convicting one, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Do I need it or is it just like a a want that's gonna fill the well and I love that he didn't just use the word want.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

He used the word greed, where it's like, ooh, that's convicting.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

For sure. Need or greed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Do I need it or do I greed it? What if you just ask yourself that every time? Do I need it or do I greet it?

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Like, am I being greedy right now?

SPEAKER_02 43:14

It's not even just a want. Want sounds like, well yeah, but I just want it.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Like, do I need it? No, I don't need it, but I I want it.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

And there's justification in that.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Yeah, well, you can say it justify yourself that way, but if you say it the other way, if you say or is it am I just greedy for it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

That makes it no justification there.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Yeah. Okay there. All right.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Well, and then he talked about you can only serve one master.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Um, and I think that's huge because we can't it's really easy to fall into serving money.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

And we don't think that we are. But we are. Where's your money going? No. Look at your bank account. Where where does it go?

SPEAKER_03 43:55

And let me be very clear. Sex not bad. Time, not bad work, not bad money, not bad. None of it is.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

Now, when any of them become a master, it becomes bad.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

It becomes misplaced. Next thing you know, you're addicted to sex, you're addicted to porn.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yeah. Or how are you using it?

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Next thing you know, when it goes from something God designed in the context He created it for to a master. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

The worship of idols, idolatry.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Then your worship is being taken from God and put onto these things of this world.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

There's nothing wrong with having a schedule and making sure your time is used efficiently and wisely, but when the schedule becomes an idol, when that becomes a master, when I don't have time to have a conversation with Leroy because I've got to respond to 47 emails because I'm getting on a plane and then blah blah blah blah, and then I when I get back.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Like when that okay, there's nothing wrong with money until money becomes the master you're serving. Right. And so that was kind of the discussion that he had there on the ways that Satan has distorted God's design for men. Then we said, What does it look like to pursue Jesus instead of living out Satan's distortion? Okay, so we said, Alright, let's say I agree with your diagnosis, right? What does it look like? And uh this is where he can be really black and white, and where I get it from, he's like, Well, the easy answer is just do the answers to number two differently. Go back a question and don't do those things and do the opposite. Right. Right? But like, and I don't know if he said it yesterday or if he said it while we were talking about this, but so much of what he said, if you guys remember what he actually said, yeah, say it, please, because I I remember I think what he didn't say.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

But we talked about of like, we can't do it alone. He said, if I'm gonna pursue Jesus instead of living out Satan's distortion, I've got to get myself around other guys, other people who are navigating this thing. I've got to say, hey, if I'm choosing biblical manhood over distorted manhood, yeah, then I've got to make sure that I am if I'm gonna follow Jesus, I better follow Jesus, I better spend time with him, I better be praying, I better be reading, right? All of these things that are gonna lead to better choices about sex, better choices about time to work and men.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

And you just look at like a flock of sheep and a lion coming to attack that flock of sheep, who is it gonna attack? It's gonna attack the one that's isolated and alone. So if you are pulled away from biblical community, you are going to get eaten alive by the enemy. It's just fact.

SPEAKER_05 46:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

But if you choose something different, you choose to engage in biblical community and you are surrounded by others that are praying for you, praying with you, yeah, supporting you, loving you through all of it, you're far more protected than you would be if you were isolated and alone.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Yes. And I think the thing he said here, now I know, was he said the the biggest piece of all of this is you have to have the right perspective. Do I have a heavenly perspective or do I have an earthly perspective? Are my eyes fixed on the things I can't see in heaven? Are my eyes fixed on living this way, or are my eyes fixed on living like the world and behaving like the world?

SPEAKER_00 47:01

And for a lot of guys today, like maybe you are in that place where you're choosing the things of this world and you're choosing to surround yourself with guys that aren't maybe the best biblical example. So it's making the choice. And it's okay to separate yourself from those relationships. And it's okay to dive into the people at church and figure out how do I get plugged in, how do I get into groups with other guys, like come to the men's nights, women come to the ladies' nights, find a way to get to get plugged in and to get connected into community because now the people here are not going to solve all your problems, but they can point you to the one who will.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

Right, right. And so we have to do all these little things like community, like reading the Bible, like actually praying, like actually saying, if I'm gonna pursue Jesus, I better pursue Jesus. Right? We need to do that. Um but then the flip side of of that is saying, Well, the only way I will do that is if I have the right perspective. Is this earth my kingdom? Am I building a kingdom here or am I seeking to store up treasures in heaven? Right? And I love he, I don't think he said this again yesterday, but in the concept of that, I love that he said, Um, I think it's maybe Friday when we were talking about it, he was like, the the verse that says don't store up treasures for yourself here on earth, but work to store up treasures in heaven. Right. There's an implication, there's an implication that he would say, like, you're gonna do work on this earth, but it's for heavenly treasures. Right? So we're here on this earth for a reason.

unknown 48:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

We're not being he said it yesterday, we're not being so heavenly minded that we're of no earthly good. Right. Right? But we have to maximize what we do here on this earth for the kingdom of God, for heavenly treasures, for that instead of things.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

Then the last question we asked was, what does redeemed manhood look like? So how would I know? What's the fruit? If I do all of this, if I start to engage with the Lord this way, if I start to lean in in prayer time this way, if I get around good guys who I'm gonna go on a retreat with, like Brad did. I'm gonna go on a retreat. We're gonna we're gonna start to try to grow together.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

We're gonna do the well, those are all the good things you can do, but it's also the things you aren't doing. I think a lot of it is removing a lot of the negative habits, a lot of the negative choices, negative decisions, things that are pulling you away from God. Like sit down and name some of those things and figure out how do I rid my life of this. Like your friendships, if they're wanting to go, and this is brash, but if they're wanting to go out and go to the bar every night, or they're wanting to go to the strip clubs, or they're pushing you towards talking about lustful things and sex and porn and all of that and things that are bringing life, like you know, you're choosing, hey, we're going golfing, and all you're doing is bashing on your wife, versus you know, how can we build her up, strengthen, encourage?

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Like, that's you've gotta yeah, reevaluate those things. And I think it takes um to go back to that piece of like I think the trip that we just went on, I think it was so fruitful because we meet every Monday. Yeah, and so now it wasn't like we were just going on this trip and we're like catching up.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Right. It's like no you're in each other's lives.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

And we got like we were able to go straight to the heart, yeah, where we challenged each other, we encouraged each other. A group of six guys were crying with each other, yep.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Like things that you know what's going on in each other's marriages, you know what sin struggles you all have. You know how to be praying for each other, but that's been built and developed over time.

SPEAKER_03 50:53

It takes time, it does.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Right. Was it built in a day?

SPEAKER_03 50:57

That's right. And so we're gonna say, okay, so to your point, man, I'm not gonna do these things. I'm gonna do these other things, right? I'm gonna I'm gonna apply as much as I can of what we've talked about. Now the question is what does it look like? What does it look like if I'm going to actually live this out? And so we said, well, why don't we look at the distortions and see what the redemption of each of those distortions would be? So we had passivity, right? That was the distortion. Now we have activity. Right? The d the redemption of the the distortion that was passivity is the redemption is activity. Okay, and so we talked about what does activity look like? Activity looks like us saying, Okay, I'm gonna men, I'm gonna take a more active role in leading my family. I'm gonna take a more active role in directing us, I'm gonna take a more active role in um having the hard conversations. Well, which would lead us to the second one, which is silence.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

No, you're fine. That's that's why I was like the second distortion with silence, the second redemption then would be communication. Right? So if I'm gonna be passive, no, no, no. Active is saying, hey, I'm gonna step in and say, no, Satan, we're not having that conversation. Yeah, no, we're not eating from that tree.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

No, we're not going there now.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

I think you're listening to a lie right now.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

Yes. Yeah. Yes. It's saying that, hey, I'm I'm going to not have a have a literal voice, I'm going to have a metaphorical voice. Right. Then communication becomes I'm going to have a literal.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

I'm going to make sure that I communicate. I'm going to make sure that we talk about this. I'm going to make sure that the the that there's not chaos and ambiguity around our entire life. Right. We're going to set direction.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Yeah. And I think going back to the passivity and activity piece of it, um, stepping into your spiritual authority means you have to find your confidence in the Lord. I think a lot of times men don't do that because they're not confident. And maybe you guys can speak to that a little bit more. Um, but just understanding that your confidence is found in the Lord, not in what you do or how you carry it, like he's going to do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

So maybe you guys can speak to that. No, I think that's great. I think there's one sentence in um Genesis chapter three, I don't know what verse it is, that I think you can trace back so much of men not leading their family to. And and it says that one of the consequences to sin is that your wife or it's he tells he tells Eve, you will want to control your husband, but he will rule over you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

And you'll have childbirth means.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Right. Right. But the when it comes to Praise the Lord, I don't know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

When it comes to marriage, though, and leading your family, the tension is right there in that sentence.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Yeah. Like he already said that that's going to be the challenge.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

The reason men don't have confidence is because they're trying to be controlled by their wife. I'm not putting it, I'm not putting it on like, well, it's the woman you gave us. It's just that's the tension. Yeah. Right? Like we have to call it for what it is. Because men didn't lead first. Now women want to control. Which but men are in a position of ruling.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Yes. Yeah. So females that are listening on the other side of that, we have to tear down the pride and we have to be humble. And we have to say, like, oh yeah, I am trying to control my husband here. Or and maybe it's in a good light. Like maybe you're like, I'm just trying to I don't know what's a good example.

SPEAKER_03 54:26

I'm just trying to help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

I'm just trying to help. I'm just trying to make him a better person. Okay. But like you have to be able to step back and say, like, actually, yeah, that's me controlling. I need to lay that down.

SPEAKER_03 54:37

But if you're only ever trying to make him a better person and you're not calling out the things that he's already doing, that's a good person, like air quotes around good person, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Like if you're not building him up.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

Think about it. Does your husband have any reason to have confidence that comes from you? Now I get your point. It's like, what shouldn't come from?

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

Right? But the the distortion is now there's a friction between husband and wife, which is the wife wants to control and the husband's supposed to rule, but the husband's choosing to be passive and because he's being controlled and manipulated by his wife. Every marital counseling we ever sit down in is well, he doesn't lead. Well, she does lead. And if she didn't lead, I'd lead. Well, if he led, I wouldn't lead. Yeah. Right. It's a chicken and the egg thing. Yeah. Right. Right. And so it's like, how are we going to have this conversation in a productive?

SPEAKER_02 55:22

The wife wants to go to church and take the kids. The husband doesn't want to go.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

And so it's a it's there's this piece of saying, yes, our confidence should only come from God.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

But we as women can help build up that confidence in the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

But if there's constant tearing down and there's constant resistance of a man leading, we see it. Naturally, the man is just going to be passive.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Like the man's not like, well, you want to fight? Let's fight.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Yeah. Ladies, go to Proverbs 31, read it, meditate on it, read it every day. And that will show you how to be a biblical woman of God. Right. To support your husband, to love him, to build him up, encourage him, honor him. It's just as important that we play our role as you guys play yours.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

And in the midst of it, as you lead, it's still to be done, you know, in the spirit, with the fruits of the spirit. It's like, oh, I'm not just like Yeah, you're not just leading to do what you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Yeah. You have to lead to the city.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

No, you're still there's still lots of calling peace, all the fruits of the spirit within those things.

SPEAKER_03 56:31

Let me tell you, let me give freedom to both genders for a second. Number one, wives. Your husband, the first time you let him lead, he's gonna suck at it. And then like for the next 10 years, he's probably not gonna be great. And eventually he will be. And vice versa. Husbands, your wives, the first time she lets you lead, she's not gonna be great at that. She's not it's gonna take a long time for her to want to take her hands off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Like it's gonna take a long time for her to want to not control. Yeah. For her to feel comfortable with your leading. The problem is what happens when, all right, well, I took my hands off this one time and now he tried to lead and he sucked at it, so my hands are back on. Well, now we just about did more damage than help. Yeah. Because we've played into the whole cycle of, well, he can't lead, and that's why I have to.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Yeah. Right. And but there is, I think, a difference between that two, and like ultimately though, you guys still are on the same team, like in your decision makings. It's not just like, well, I'm the leader now, so I have to play in all the vacations, and no, no, no, yeah, yeah. I'm just, I want to have to be clear, like it's it's it's a team. It's a team as well. But now you, as they more so even like the spiritual leader of like where is that foundation like building on in your family? Yeah. You know, um who are you rooted in? Yeah. So if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

No, I think like when you look at any effective leader in the world, they have counsel around them who they take the advice of.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

Yeah. They invite others in.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Yeah. Some of the best leaders pay an extremely high price to have wisdom around them because they understand that leading doesn't mean I make every decision all the time without like so to your yeah, Brad, exactly. To your point, let's be very clear. Leadership is not my way or the highway. Right. And so we have to make sure that we're having that discussion, which is good. The the third distortion was hiding. The redemption of hiding is presence. So now we're talking about am I physically present, right? And am I emotionally present?

SPEAKER_00 58:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:37

When I say maybe relationally is even the better word than emotionally. Right? Like, so I'm physically present with my kids, I'm there, but I'm scrolling. I I'm physically present, but I'm practicing my golf swing. I'm physically present, but I'm answering work emails.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

Yep, yep. So I'm there. Just like Adam was there, but not actually there. You know?

SPEAKER_00 59:07

And for men, like men that work, just think about it. When you're driving home, you've got time to decompress, and then you get home, and the second you walk in those doors, your priority is your wife and your children. Like everything else has to go and it has to be left at the door. You just need to go in and focus on loving your wife well, making eye contact with your children, picking them up, loving them, giving them kisses, you know, like it's a simple concept, hard to live out consistently, I think. Because life is life, and there are a million things that do come up.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

For sure. And I think the one thing for context I'd add to that, and Zach, you can probably relate to this more than anybody else's. One of the ways that he would prioritize his wife and kids is by working hard. Right. So to say that I'm never going to answer that call when I own the company, whenever I'm trying, whenever I'm paid by commission. Right. What we have to understand is, and this is goes back to communication, is is how do we create boundaries and how do we create guardrails and how do we put things in place where for some people, they clock out, they literally punch a card, you go home. I couldn't think about work if I wanted to. I mean, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Like after 5 p.m. it's done.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Yeah. Yeah. But for some people it's not. So then how do we if if that's not our reality, how do we go back and say, well, then I need to lead well through communication? Yeah. I need to lead well through activity and say, hey, here's how I'm going to make sure that we're having this conversation so that you don't feel like you're put on the back burner, so the kids don't feel like all I care about's email. But at the same time, the lifestyle we have chosen to live, now to whoever said it earlier of the need versus greed, a lot of it is greed. Right? But i if we're not gonna change our lifestyle and we're not gonna spend differently in this bucket of money, then it requires m different things from dad in the world today. But at the end of the day, you're right. When you get home from them as much as you can get home and leave work at work, right? Like or say, hey, you know what? Once the kids are in bed, I'm gonna respond to emails for 15 minutes just to make sure that nothing's on fire. Metaphorical or literal. Yeah. Then the last one was blame shifting versus assuming responsibility. Right? So assuming responsibility is the redemption of the distortion which is blame shift blame shifting. And I think men, we have to understand we are responsible for so much more than we think we are. Yeah. Right? Go back to that graph from 40 minutes ago that we were talking about. We're responsible for our own graph of spiritual growth, we're responsible for our wives' graph of spiritual growth, and we're responsible for that of our children as well. Right? And so to sit there and I'm not saying my thing is, and I said it yesterday, is because I think I could fall into this. One of the ways that I would do this poorly would be, all right, fine. Yes, I I shouldn't have ate from the tree. It's my fault she ate from the tree, and no, no, no. I mean, it is, but it's you eating from the tree, Amanda, is your own decision.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

That's free will.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

Now I should have stepped in and cut off the conversation between you and Satan before if I'm Adam.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:18

That's where I need to assume responsibility. I didn't protect the way that I should, I didn't lead the way that I should.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:23

But I'm not going to take responsibility for your sin in that moment. I can only take responsibility for not leading you away from that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Right. Because that is like discipleship. Yes. Because if Adam would have had discipleship with his relationship with his wife, it wouldn't have uh there might have not been sin there. But then guess what? Then they had Cain and Abel. There had to have been discipleship there, or guess what? They would have eaten even worse. They would have they could have had the same option that did they really think not eat some of the that's what I've always said.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

Like if it wasn't Adam and Eve, it was only a matter of time. Yeah, so and because humans are so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

Yeah, unless there was yeah, unless there was true like discipleship. Yeah. And once again, it would be we all have this free will. So yeah, eventually in our humanness, we probably would have been like, you know what, the snake's got a good point. Like this guy trying to hide something from God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

So like to the dads, it is your job to disciple. It is our job as women to disciple our children too. But dads have to accept that responsibility and say, like, yes, I am willing to disciple. And discipling, it doesn't just mean talking at your wife and your children, it's living it out in the actions that you have. It's not going to the strip club with your boys. It's not going out to the bar and getting a drink. It's not going golfing every waking minute that you have open. You know, it's it's making those different decisions and those different choices. It's choosing to surround yourself with biblical men in your life. Um but yeah, it really is it goes down to all of the different choices and decisions that you're willing to make and when you accept that responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

Yeah, for sure. And I think I don't I don't know who said it. We gotta wrap this thing up. Um but the thing I would add to that part of the discussion is oh, that was Brad. You're saying, you know, in our humanness, we're like, yeah, is God hiding something? But when we look at it, Adam and Eve literally were created living in a place where everything was good. Yeah, yeah. And the first command God gave, so many people think the first command God gave is don't don't don't eat from that tree. No, the first command was you can eat from whatever tree well, be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth, right? Here's your purpose. Now, within that, that's not an affirmative or a negative. That's just like, hey, here's your role. But the first command wasn't don't eat from the tree. Here's all of these other amazing trees. They're for your pleasure. There's just one that you don't eat from. If you do, you'll die. But the rest of them look at all these amazing things he's given. But in our limited mindset, we can make well, what's God hiding?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:11

No, no, no. Look at all everything was good.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:15

Right? Everything was good, and he created us with all of this, okay? So the the way we ended it was uh just to be clear, redeemed manhood is not control, it's not domination, it's not harshness, but it is responsibility. It's to Amanda's point humility, it's presence, it's sacrifice, it's consistency, it's spiritual leadership, it's repentance, it's servant leadership, and it's everything we just talked about for the last hour. Right? Because we no longer have to identify with Adam, we could just learn from him, which is great to Brad's point from earlier. We get to learn from Adam, but we get to identify with Christ, which is where we'll we'll end up picking up the story next week as we talk about the redemption that comes from uh God for the distortion from Satan. And so here's the verse Romans 5, 18, 19. Yes, Adam's one sin brings condemnation for everyone. But Christ, his one act of righteousness, brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone. Because one person, Adam, disobeyed God, many became sinners, but because one other person obeyed God, Jesus, many will be made righteous.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

Praise the Lord for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:25

Listen, God isn't holding out on us, God isn't saving the best for someone else. Like, God is a good God who loves us and who lavishes things upon us. Included in that is the redemption of the distortion through his son Jesus. And that's what we'll talk about next week on Sunday. We will not be here for the podcast next week on Monday. So we'll catch up with you guys in a couple weeks. Until then, we love you guys. Have a great week. And Brad's gonna pray for us before we get out of here.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Father, we love you. We just thank you for this time that we get to have with each other. And just Lord, I pray that you just um draw us nearer to you in the midst of just this journey we're all on. I pray that, Father, we don't um look at the things that we don't have, but instead just thank you for all the good that you have blessed us with. And ultimately, Lord, the the gift of your son Jesus, who gives us eternal life. And it's in his name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:23

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:24

Hey, we love you guys. Have an amazing couple weeks. Have a safe 4th of July, and uh, we will see you or talk to you at a different time in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

Have a good one, guys.