Hey folks, welcome to the Bird Dog Podcast. My name is Ty Erickson and I'll be your host today. Today I got my good friend with me, Mike Birch. I'm excited to have him on the podcast and be able to talk to him about, all things bird dogs. So, um, talk about our love for dogs and bird hunting and all that good stuff. So, uh, Mike, why don't you go ahead and say hi. Hello everyone. Ty, thanks for having me on. Looking forward to a good conversation today. Yeah, so thanks for being here, man. So, Mike, why don't you go ahead and just first maybe, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself, as much as you can tell. Yeah, yeah. So I was, I was born and raised in Las Vegas and, uh, Went to school here in Utah and throughout my career, moved around the country in the world and, uh, ended back, uh, ended, uh, back up here in Utah, um, about 20 years ago, 15, 20 years ago. So it's a place I love, I love the mountains and uh, I love everything to do with, uh, being in the outdoors, whether it's, uh, dogs in this case or hunting, uh, and, uh, another passion of mine, snow skiing. So this is a perfect spot for all those things. Cool. Did you, uh, did you, since we're, this is the Bird Dog podcast, wanna talk about obviously bird dogs and all that, the stuff that goes along with it. Tell us about your hunting background. Yeah, I don't, I don't know if I actually know personally, like Yeah. Did you grow up hunting? Did you, your dad take it? Were you late onset hunter or, sure, sure. Yeah. No, I'm a late to the game hunter. So, uh, my dad grew up in Pennsylvania in a non-hunting family. And, um, so he raised us, although he loves the outdoors and the mountains, in fact, spends most of the year in a cabin in central Utah. He's, never been into hunting, but, uh, he is an avid fisherman. And, um, he raised my brother and I hunting, or excuse me, fishing throughout Utah in the summers. He was a school teacher, so he had the summer off. Okay. And we used to spend the summers in a Volkswagen van, uh, fishing throughout Utah. Okay. Always asking our dad to take us hunting. Yeah. And so my brother and I had to develop that passion on our own later in life. Hmm. Okay. That's cool. I didn't know it. Yeah. You, you're still an avid fisherman, right? Yeah. Like fly fish. Yeah. Fly fish on the Provo River. Yeah. That's where I grew up, was on the Pro River myself too. So, what was the first thing you hunted? So, can you remember the first thing you hunt? I mean, were you like the kid out there with the BB gun ever or was it Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, the first thing I shot was a robin, out of a tree in my backyard when I was a kid. I think that's most hunter's first, right? First species. And I was petrified when I actually killed it. So, uh, that was the first thing I shot. But the first thing, I hunted was probably a pheasant. Mm-hmm. You know, at a, at a farm, at a club. Yeah. Uh, Penn Ray's pheasant. How long, ago was that? I would say that was probably within the last 20 years. 15 to 20 years ago. Yeah. That's cool. At a club somewhere. Right? Okay folks. So, um, so I met Mike. We were just talking about pheasant hunting and I met Mike how long, how long ago It's been Mike, 2015. Rob House, Grizz and Haka. Yeah. 2014 or 15. So that's, yeah. So that's been, what is that, is that eight years now? I guess because Hike is eight. So I trained a dog for Mike, um, yeah, eight years ago, I guess. Her name's Hah. She's a German short-haired pointer, a great dog. The most chill German short hair to date still. So Mike, you're just a chill owner. That's why she Yeah, that's why she, that's why she, uh, is that way. But, um, how did you, how did you find me? I can't remember or find us for training. Uh, through Erin. Okay. Yeah. Okay. One of my employees who, you know, so one of his employees. Yeah. I bought this. Uh, that's right. I forgot about that. Pointer and was trying to figure out how to get her trained. And Aaron, who works for me, knew you and suggested I give you a call. So what made you want to buy the dog? Did you go to a bird farm and then you were just like, I don't know if I ever heard that story. So, getting back to how I have finally got into hunting, my youngest son Cade asked for a shotgun for Christmas one year. Okay. When he was 11 years old. Yeah. And I thought it was a great idea. So I bought him a shotgun. And was he wanting to get into hunting or just wanted a shotgun? He wanted a shotgun for, uh, he was in the Boy Scouts and had done some shooting and mm-hmm. Um, thought it'd be really neat to have a shotgun and start shooting on his own. Yeah. And that's where this whole journey started is I bought Cade a shotgun, and then I bought Funny Me a shotgun, and then we joined a pheasant club. Okay. And then, uh, joining that Pheasant Club we. Um, we not only shot a lot of trap and skied and that type of stuff Yeah. But we started, started shooting pheasants and we'd use a guide with dogs at the club. Mm-hmm. And that's where the original Love for Dogs started. That's where it incubated. Okay. Was watching these, these two drawers, um, you know, do what they were born and bred to do. Yeah. That's cool. I don't know if I ever heard that story on how, how you ended up, um, you know, finding dogs or getting in. So how did, where'd you find h at? Was she just a Yeah. A private breeder online or did you look her, how, where did Yeah, so, you know, we got to the point where we were doing enough hunting and it was not only at this club we joined, but uh, we were taking two or three trips a year mm-hmm. To Kansas or Nebraska. Mm-hmm. Um, South Dakota, um, I wanted my own dog Yeah. When we were doing it enough and Yeah. So, um, to be candid, I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah. And, uh, you just went hunting with people and saw the dogs Yeah. And saw the dogs. I want this. Right. And, um, so I found a, found a guy who lived not far from me, who was, who bred, uh, Shorthaired pointer pointers. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I didn't know anything about the bloodlines. I knew they were, they were a purebred dog that, that he had and Yeah. Um, which was totally naive of me. Wow. And, um, most people start out that way. Right. Which is normal, you know, but I got lucky. I mean, h is a great dog and mm-hmm. She's a great dog at home and she's a great dog in the field. And so that's, we bought her and, um, 12 weeks later. Yeah. You had her. Yeah. So there, there, there we went with the, on the dog journey. Yeah. So, hi. Yeah. Hah. Just so you guys know, most, short hairs. As a lot of people do know are pretty high energy and this dog is the most calm short hair. You really should breed, you should have bred that dog. And I'm curious that bloodline, cuz that's what people kind of want is cuz you know, I mean, heck, 95% of the time they're just pets. Right? Right. So if you can have a short air that's really chill and then hunts well and turns it on in the field, I mean, that's, that's what you want. You know? So, yeah. So she loves being at home, in the house, laying on our bed. Yeah. As much as she does chasing pheasants. Well, that's when she comes to and boards with us, you know, we'll board Mike's a busy guy and, and we'll board her, board his dog sometimes. And, uh, anyway, she just like, I swear she's gonna come out her doghouse. She just doesn't surprise me. How, I mean, she comes out, when she gets outside, she's runs around. Right. She just, yeah. Just hangs out and, and, uh, she's a, she's a funny dog, so great dog. I mean, Um, yeah, we, we like haa, so that's cool that, so, and then from there you got your lab, right? And maybe, I, I had, did I have a little play in that or, or no, you did. I can't. No, you did. Okay. Re I can't remember the right, how that came to pass. So, so after Kate and I got deep into upland hunting mm-hmm. Um, in fact, you asked me, I remember you asked me one point about water if I did any waterfowling, cuz we always talked upland hunting. I think that's maybe what it was. Yeah. And, uh, you suggested that, hey, you oughta try duck hunting if you like upland hunting. You really tried duck hunting. Yeah. And another friend of mine invited me to, he's a member of a club at a club here, a waterfowl club here in Utah. Mm-hmm. And, uh, he d he invited me on a hunt at his club and we killed it. Mm-hmm. It was a great hunt, but more importantly, He had this yellow lab named Coda mm-hmm. That did things I didn't know dogs could do, hunting dogs could do. Yeah. Certainly I'd seen what an upland dog can do as far as pointing goes and flushing and even retrieving. But to see a dog in the marsh, waterfalling and, um, you know, doing things that I'd never seen. Mm-hmm. Um, it, it just, it it opened my eyes and I was hooked. Yeah. From probably watching that his dog coda on that one hunt. Yeah. And you and I had a conversation about a lap not too long after that. Yeah. Well, and I, I think the other day I said, I told Mike I'd like to have him on my podcast and. Because Mike's, Mike's like me and I'm sure like a lot of our listeners here, but you're just like, obviously you just love it, you know, and you're diehard and when you, seems like when you get into something, you jump with both feet first, right? I, I usually go up to my eyeballs. Yeah, no, I go deep. So, I mean, it's a curse. I've hunted a lot longer than Mike, but he is probably, he's gone a lot more places and probably killed, heck, I don't, I dunno if you killed more birds than me, maybe at this point. But he's killed a lot of birds. Like you're making up for the, the time you lost. I'm trying to make up for lost time for sure. In your younger, younger years. One thing I want to come back to in a little bit is your, is your journal. He keeps, he keeps track of the birdsy, um, shoots and also that his dog retrieves and that, that's something I've never done, but I think it's pretty cool. He has a nice little leather, leather journal. But, um, come back around to the waterfowl that first time when you went and hunted with Coda. And so Rick is a buddy of ours too, and we, I trained, I didn't train Coda, but um, trained his other dog, Bo a chocolate lab that he, that is, is a real nice dog too. But actually, I was talking to Rick just the other day. He called me about three days ago and he, uh, he Coda passed away not too long. Pretty recently. Right. Did he talk to you? Did you know that or something? He, he told me that, yeah. Is that la was it just last few months or? Yeah, it was not too long ago. So within the last 60 days for sure. Yeah. So pretty recent. So he actually got another dog and he's gonna send it to us in September, so it'll be fun. So I think it's related to his, uh, his mail Yes. Right now. But Wow. There's a pointing lab too, and it's a good dog, so. Well, that's the end too. A very good chapter is uh, is my, my, my love for waterfowl dogs and yeah, all things labs started with with Coda. So With Coda, yeah. Yeah. Was there a time, and we talked about this the other day, but um, I remember when I was a young kid and I was out. My brother, kind of my dad's, my dad wasn't a water fowler growing up, so my dad's good friend took my oldest, my second oldest brother, Wade waterfowl hunting. And so Wade, my old, my, my brother right above me, he would drag me and my little brother along waterfowl hunting. And so that's how, cause my dad didn't like the taste of ducks. He just never got into it. He grew up pheasant hunting. He grew up in Oregon and those guys would just massacre the, I mean, he had a English pointer growing up. They'd just go off the back porch and just shoot the heck out of the roost or right something. They were up in Ontario, Oregon. And I remember when I was a young kid, Going up there and picking up, he didn't have a dog at that point, but we'd just drive corn fields and stuff. And there were birds left and right and we, we were just, you know, we were the bird dogs and we'd just go pick'em up and um, my mic was kind of cutting out there for a sec. But anyways, we just smash'em. So he, so he grew up pheasant hunting and now it's like pheasant, hunting's not even exciting cuz when you go out and shoot, you know, a hundred birds between two or comfortable or whatever, you know, I don't know what the limits were back in the heck. I mean, in the sixties or fifties, you know, there's probably a limit, but I don't know if many guys followed it, followed it too much. But anyways, they would, they would shoot'em up pretty good. And, um, so my brother, yeah, he would, he would drag us along and we loved to go obviously with him, me and my little brother Dane. And, um, and, uh, and so I, I remember the first time though, I can't remember what it was, but we. We, it was me, my buddy Phillip, my brother Dane. We went down to Utah Lake and we kind of, we was a hunt on our own, but we walked out in the mud and all, and like some, it was like mo our mom took us down there and dropped us off, off the airport dyke. And we were hiking out through the marsh and getting bit by mosquitoes And, uh, some ducks flew by some mallards. I remember it as Claire as day. And I pulled up and I shot, and I totally whiffed on him, but like, that just like sealed it in my memory, you know, right. In that memory bank. And I was like, I want more. I, I actually hit one, you know? Right, right. So, and then the, and then the second time after that, when I, we were hunting again, a, a group of, I think there were gadwalls came by and. And they came swinging in and I aimed at one I shot and I totally hit the one behind it. It was like flock shot. I aimed at one, I missed it, but a bird fell and I was the only one there. And that was like, that was my first duck ever shot. It was a head G wall. And that kind of was like it, man. It was just hooked after that, you know? So was there anything like that or was it more, was there like a specific, was it that fine tune, like a specific bird? Or you guys were just kind of annihilating'em, so it sounds like Well, no, I'll tell you where, I'll tell you where it all started. And was that on that hunt with Rick, that first hunt? Yeah. Where I saw Coda retrieve. We were sitting in a blind and um, a group of birds came by. I can't even tell you what, what species they were at this point. Yeah, well you probably didn't even know that bird. I wouldn't have known Anyways, he's like, Chuck, sure. But there were three or four of'em, Uhhuh and um, they took a look at our decoys and they kept going. Yeah. And Rick got on his call. And from probably three or 400 way, uh, yards away, he turned those birds and brought'em back. Yeah. And we dropped I think three of the four. Yeah. And Koda retrieved them. Yeah. And that was a minute, the moment where I said to myself, I love this. Yeah. Like this, I, I could get into this. Yeah. I want to be part of this and I want to understand this. Yeah. Um, so if there was a moment that started it, you know, if you want to think of it like a spark. That was my spark. And obviously I've been feeding that spark with different experiences like that, that have just, uh, broadened and deepened my love for this sport. Of, uh, all things waterfalling and BirdDog sense. Yeah. It's interesting. I think most people are this way when it comes to bird hunting. It's, it's the, obviously the dogs, it's the friends, it's the new places. You see, it's the adventure. Right? Right. It's not just like, Hey, we're go out and shoot ducks. It's like there's more, it's the whole package experience. And so I'm, I'm always blown away. I talk to guys with, you know, a duck club membership or just go hunting a lot, and they're like, I don't even have a, I don't hunt with a dog. And I'm just like, what? That's like, not even, it's not even, I don't know, it's just like half the package is gone. You know, I, that doesn't even register to me. Like, I don't, doesn't make sense. I get it. I'm just like, it's like eating cake without the frosty Right. Or something, you know? I'm just like, or or showing somebody a real car, a real cool car and it doesn't have tires on it. Yeah. Or yeah. It's like you're missing half of the game here, you know? So hopefully if you guys are on the fence about getting a bird dog, this, podcast inspires you. To get one cuz they're, again, dogs are awesome, but a dog that does something for you and is like your buddy and all that, it's I, it is just that much better, you know? So, you know, Ty, on that note, if you don't mind me jumping in here Yeah. Anytime. You know, one thing that you brought to my awareness was the relationship that you develop with your bird dog, you know? Mm-hmm. It's that dog's not just an animal. And, um, he's not just a tool. But there's this relationship, this bond that's developed this trust. A lot of'em called the unspoken bond. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I guess unconsciously I knew it was there. I'd never really thought about it. Mm-hmm. And you said something to me once about, I don't know, Grizz came over and ran up, and usually when he sees me, he greets me. He kind of jumps up and Yeah. He doesn't jump on me. He's little mannerism. He, yeah. He just kind of jumps up like it. He doesn't do it to me only to make Right. Yeah. And, uh, and you said, yeah, that's his way of saying hi, and he's mm-hmm. You know, he's, he's happy to see you and mm-hmm. And, you know, it's just that kind of, that, that unspoken, Hey, you know, we're together. Yeah. And he, you know, and, and I thought about that and then I thought about all the time I spent with him, spend with him. Excuse me. And, um, yeah, we like have this, this, uh, language, this connection. Mm-hmm. That is hard to explain. Yeah. And, um, maybe a, that un unspoken bond, as you put it, is describes it. Mm-hmm. But it is, to me, it's magical. Yeah. It's, it's, you're working together as one. It really is. It really is. Ama I mean, you think on this earth, all the animals, like, I think a dolphin's like the closest thing in my mind to like a dog, right. They can like maybe a monkey or something, you know, but like, I mean something that you can, it's, you know, and I think that's why a lot of people put'em, you know, second to like their kids in like importance cuz they are so. Personable, their man's best friend. Right? Right. And so there's, so there's that. So that's being a dog trainer, that is, you know, something you want, always want to take really good care of people's dogs cuz it's like taking care of their kids. Kids. Right. Kids, right. So I've had some clients say they like their dogs more than their kids. I've heard that many times. They're like, I'm like, yeah, these are like second to your kids. They're like, whatever, his song's way better than my kids. You know? So I felt that way sometimes actually. Yeah. So it's probably depending on the day. Right, right. So, but yeah, no, they're, they're, they're pretty awesome at, so now, so Mike has a short hair that he started out with. He has Grizz, which was is his lab. And, um, Uh, and then tell us how you got Grizz. Do you remember? Tell us where the audience, where you got him. Yeah. So actually I got Grizz from Tyson. Yep. Um, one of your close friends. Mm-hmm. Um, who, I guess you'd bred one of your dogs Yeah. With, uh, with his dog and, well, it was an a we did an ai Yeah. Was Grass Lake, but he had a Yeah, that's right. Glass. I, I Grass Lake Guster. I think it was a pointing lab. Right. And he was out of Iowa, I think somewhere in the Midwest. Yeah. Midwest. Really strong. Pointing dog and man, Grizz Grizz. Mike's dog not only is a great waterfowl dog, but man, that thing, he's like a statue when he locks up, he's, he's got a killer point. Yeah. So if you're in the pointing labs, he's really, he's fun to, there's that one day he was pointing a chicken or something on the mic In your backyard. Yeah. And you, I filmed them pointing and it looks, people think it's a photo when you show it to me. Right. I've showed it to countless people and I think it's a photo I've showed people too, like, oh, that's a cool photo. I'm like, no, it's a video look. It's like running and the dog is like so statue and it's probably, it's at least a couple minutes or Oh, something. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. I think we finally, I had to like touch him or call him off. Right. Say like, Hey, here or something. Call him off it just cuz he was just so locked in. So. Um, so, and that's, so Mike has a pretty good deal cause he has a nice short air and he has a pointing lab. And those two work good together. You've sent me some photos of him, like pointing together Awesome. In the upland field. Yeah. Yeah. Both of those dogs are, are cool upland dogs. So we've, we've bred Grizz to one of my females and he, Mike has his son cash. Right. Which is kind of fun. And he's kind of in the learning area era. He's, he's a, he's got three, two senior passes and three junior passes. That's right. Right. We're discussing that the other day. And he's coming along. He's, he has a lot of his, a little bit of his mom in him, which was my dog taller and she was kind of a softie and a little slow to mature, but Right. But he's playing the game. He's not even two yet. Yeah. So he's, he, hopefully he's titled over Memorial weekday weekend here. Yeah. Uh, as a senior hunter. So hopefully knocks that out and then gets a good hunting season this fall on him. And he's coming. He's a nice, nice little dog. So, um, so was it when, when you got Grizz. I'm trying to think back. Cause this is eight years ago. You did, you just, I don't, were you even kind of looking for a dog? I don't know if you even were. I think I somehow it kind of came up like, Hey, he has some labs and all of a sudden I'm like, if you want call'em and then you call them and Yeah. So there's a funny story to this. Do you want me to tell it? Yeah, absolutely. So, um, you had, you'd asked me about Waterfalling and my interest there, and I'd gone on this hunt with Rick and had this just unbelievable experience and, um, I don't know, I was here picking up Haika. You'd kenneled her or something and we'd were talking about that hunt and you said, Hey, by the way, if you were ever interested in a water dog, a waterfalling dog. Yeah. Um, a good friend of mine has a litter on the ground. Mm-hmm. And, uh, my wife and I talked about it and she was on the fence and initially said yes. And, and I think I told Tyson your friend. Mm-hmm. Um, hey, I want to come look at one of your dogs. Well, this was around Thanksgiving. Mm-hmm. After all that interaction, my wife came back and said, you know, maybe it's not a good idea. We should, we should probably drop it. Well, it was, it was left there. Well, on Thanksgiving day we had friends over, family over, and, um, my niece, her husband's a big waterfowling guy and a hunting guy. Mm-hmm. He knew I was looking at this lab and, um, he, he said to me, he said, Hey, when are you picking up your dog? Mm-hmm. And my wife looked at me like, what are, what's he talking about? She thought it was in the, a thing of the past. Yeah. And Cole kind of winked at me and he's like, yeah, Mike, I thought you were picking up that lab at this point. You kind of written it off too. Written it. Well, yes, you said it. Yes. Okay. We're not gonna get one. Yes. Okay. And, uh, so I started playing along with the story. So I looked at my wife and I said, honey, I said, I didn't know how to tell you, but, um, you know, I couldn't stop the process. And we had, you know, you had said yes initially. Did she know this or do we No, no. She, she thought she probably won't listen to the podcast. Maybe she will. Well, I'll, she knows now, but at the time she had no idea we're messing with her. She probably, she likes Grizz now, I'm sure. Yeah. Oh, peace part of the family. But yeah, long story short, uh, I said, look, the, we couldn't stop it, you know, we'd made the commitment, he put the, the dog aside, pause it and, and you know, we gotta take it. And she said, well, okay. I guess that's not bad. We, you know, hah needs a companion anyways. Yeah. Because she was by herself a lot. And you went along with that one. Yeah, and I'm, and so I looked over at my, my nephew Colon, he's like, you know, gave me the thumbs up, but we just rolled with it. Yeah. So, um, anyways, I picked up Grizz from, uh, from Tyson and then, uh, It wasn't until probably six months later we told her it was a joke, but we had the dog at that point. So were you in the doghouse at that point, or she Not really. She was happy. She's already loved the puppy. You know, my wife, she, she was, uh, at that point good wife man, fall in love with Grizz and yeah, he was a member of the family. But it was just funny how it all came about because it almost didn't happen. Had you told Tyson that you weren't gonna get it at that point? Or did he still kind of just think you were gonna get it? No, I told him we weren't gonna get it. Okay. I called him and said, Hey, listen, we're, and he still had one at, but he still had, okay. I think he still had three dogs at the time. Okay. He had grn, he had two females. Yeah. Yeah. That's a funny story. I think maybe I'd heard that, but I couldn't, I couldn't remember. But, well, anyways, after this discussion on Thanksgiving, the next day, I called Tyson and I said, Hey, we're taking that mail. Oh, okay. And, uh, anyways, the rest is history. Yeah. That's, that's a funny, it's funny story. It's a, it's interesting, like I, in one of my first podcasts and I did an introduction, I talked about kind of my dogs that I had. And everything up until, you know, up until this point. And, and, um, I think a lot of people, it's funny, I hear about like that first dog. Like they, it's kind of like Griz is like your first dog and there's something like mine, I remember my first dog, but actually took about, um, two or three by the time I got my real first hunting dog. Um, I, my first one was just a mutt that I didn't know. I was like, purebred labs on ksl, right? 80 bucks. And I'm like, oh yeah. And I go and they have like brown spots on, but I was so excited and my, my parents like, yeah, you can get a dog. And so I purebred lab, you know, so I bought this dog and it was like, Probably half German Shepherd and it ran away. And then, anyways, you have to listen to that podcast. You wanna hear this stuff? Oh, I will. Um, but anyways, and then Lady was my really, my first hunting dog that kind of came all the, like, I trained her and all that stuff, you know, and, and had that kind of, more of that unspoken bond like you have with Grizz, you know? So, oh, I wanna back, did you have dogs growing up at all? Uh, we did, yeah. Not, not working dogs. What'd you guys have growing up? Um, we had poodles well, you know, the one thing my dad did give me a love for was dogs. I mean, he, he had dogs growing up. Okay. This is not hunting dogs. Yeah. But just, I remember him telling me about a chow he had as a boy. Okay. And so he had a love for dogs and so we always had a family dog. So always had a family pet. Always. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I learned the responsibility of, of taking care of a dog and cleaning up after a dog and feeding a dog and. You know, spending time with a dog. So I had that in me. Yeah. And that wasn't like foreign to me. It's like foreign and having a dog with a dog. Right, right. Yeah, no, that makes, that makes sense. I couldn't remember if that's what I want. I did want to ask you about that, if you had had dogs or something growing up. So, okay. So now you have your short hair, you have your lab. Do you have, is there a favorite upland or waterfowl or do you like'em equally? Oh, waterfowling by waterfall. Waterfall. No, I'm, I'm so far gone. Good thing hikes maybe more of a couch potato. Right, right, right. Does your wife feel bad? Hah. Doesn't get out as much as she, she put, she nudges me once in a while. Yeah. Cause she feels like I give our labs just way more attention, which I do. Yeah. But, you know, we still get hike out four or five times a year. It's not like she's completely inactive For sure. Um, but yeah, Mike, Mike runs a real successful business in anyways. He, uh, But they have a lot of club. You go business Yeah. Ventures and stuff, right? Yeah. You go out and you shoot with people. Right. And take her out. They have charities and stuff. Right? Right. You guys take her to, so she, she still gets a lot of action. But I remember, I remember, I actually, it was funny, I was talking to a client about this the other day. Um, kind of a side note is hk she, she'd pointed really nice and she retrieved pretty good on her own, but she definitely was a pointer. Like she loves the fine game point game, but the retrieves like, uh, take away on my own. I'll Yeah, I'll take it or leave it. But when you let Grizz, who loves to retrieve they work, she's fine with that. Right. Like, oh, perfect. I'll, I'll point'em. You kill'em, you go get Well, you kill'em, then you retrieve'em all. Yeah. I, I, I could probably count the number of retrieves she's had on both of my hands since Grizz arrived. Yeah. She totally just said, yeah, that's your deal. Yeah, I had, I, I had a client that was, I can't remember if it was something along those same lines. They were asking about retrieving and hunting two dogs. And I said, well, I said, if your dog's not a a because they were, they were wondering if their dog's retrieve would get stronger working it with another dog and, and with like a re I think it was a pointer and a retriever. And I said, listen, I said, now if your dog's super competitive and it likes to, you know, retrieve, then it, or if you run with another dog, it might get competitive and want to, you know, it's retrieve might get stronger, right? But if you have a dog that's retrieved is not very strong and you have another one that loves it, that one usually just takes over. There's like, cuz they're, they work together as a team essentially. Like, fine, you like the retrieve you have. I, I don't care. You know, and so, and so I feel like that's kind of with Hka and Grizz, like they work together as a team where they both enjoy the pointing and finding game. But then Grizz is, he's a retriever as a. Pointer. And so like, you know, he's gonna take, he's gonna do it. He enjoys, you know, the most Yes. And really retrieve the game for her. And so that's a good combination, you know. But, um, so if, if you guys ever are running retrievers and pointers and they do that, some places I know they'll guide with the labs and pointers just for that purpose. The pointers maybe will go out there further cover bigger ground, point the game than the labs get'em into the air, retrieve'em, and it's just kind of, they can work together pretty good as a team. Yeah. Tyce, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like you said, Ty or, uh, Grizz has got a great point, but if you watch both of them in the field, you see the difference in the breeds. Mm-hmm. I mean, Hage just covers a lot more ground. Mm-hmm. Um, her nose, her scenting abilities, just different. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I wouldn't use the word better. It's just different. I mean, it's, yeah. She's a, she's a pointer. Yeah. And, um, She's just so skilled at that. Like most pointers that I've, I've hunted with. Yeah. So, um, uh, you know, then to have grizz there to retrieve the bird, I mean yeah. He will retrieve every bird if he can. Yeah. And um, you know, it's just team, team was the right word to describe it, you know, as you use that. And they're a great team that way. Yeah. The, yeah. And none are really one's, not necessarily, well I just say one's not bad or good necessarily. But again, when you're choosing dogs, I commonly have people say like, I want a short hair, but I hunt waterfowl, or, you know, just like, or a pointing burrito or vila. And I, I always try to steer him if, you know, you want to get the dog for what game you want to play. Right, right. Like, and you're gonna have more fun cuz the dog enjoys it naturally. Right. You know, know like haka or another shorthaired, you get out there and you're making him sit still and. In the blind waiting for ducks and then the water's cold. They just, it's just not their strong suit. Right, right. So they're not gonna enjoy it as much. And then if they're not enjoying it, you're not gonna be enjoying it cuz you're mad cuz they're not going to go get your bird or whatever, you know? And so, so just, yeah, just remember as you're looking at dogs, um, and I actually have another podcast I actually did talking about the different breeds and how they kind of can fit into people's lives and stuff like that. So Mike, the cool thing I like about Mike is he's like me. We, when he talks and drops his dog off for boarding, we always bs about dogs or life or, or whatever. We, we got a lot in common. So, but we usually go up every year, go up to a neighboring state and go, um, waterfowl hunt together. And um, one of my favorite retreats to date, and it's kind of those things that burned in, I've mentioned this before, is a gr is gr is. We shot this. Was it a duck? It was a duck, right? It was a goose. Was it a goose? It was a goose, man. This goose, we sailed it like clear out there in this sage brush, um, off this river and had to have been at least a couple hundred yards or something, right? It was, and we were, I mean, we were shooting these ducks in the snow and they were hitting on the bank in the snow and we couldn't even, like, you'd walk out there like if the dog didn't see'em go down, we'd kind of walk out there and have'em hunt'em up and search it out. And I couldn't even find the dang ducks like myself. And they hit like 20 yards away from us. The snow was four feet of snow, right? Like I we're, you know, if you didn't have a dog, you probably would've lost like, Found very few, very few birds. Yeah. So, um, but anyhow, I remember we shot this one and, and this goose sailed clear out there and I think we'd shot multiple ones or something. Cause it seemed like there was kind of stuff going on. Right. And, uh, and Mike's like, I'm gonna send, I'm gonna send him. And so he, he'd sent him on his name cash. And I'm like, there's no way that dog Grizz or Grizz, I'm sorry, cash is his other, his other dog. Um, I just thought there's, that's, that's a hard mark. That's a long, it was, I mean, again, just to be able to judge that distance and all of the, it looked all the same. It was just big sage brush flat, you know, and it was just, it was flat. And that's really hard for dogs to mark off. There's no trees or there's nothing like that. And covered in snow. Yeah. And covered in snow is deep snow. I mean, they were like basically lunging kind of through that, that snow and. And sure enough, he found that bird came back with it. He came back with, I think we just kept hunting. Dude, I've never seen you light up so much in my entire life, Heym. As long as I've known you kinda like his stepdad, you know? No, I gotta train him and spend time. So, made me feel good. I mean, if, if we can get you excited with a dog, you know, retrieving a bird. I knew it was good. That was a good, that was a, that was an all time mark, man. So it's fun. We'll get up there and you can only do this with good trained dogs. I, I, I think it's fun. I'm sure you do too. But we'll get, you know, I'll get my, uh, trainers up there with us and some buddies, and we'll get five or six dogs and, and we'll get lined up on this, on the river. And, uh, man, it's fun. We'll just take turns with the dogs. We'll shoot a bird down and, you know, and then, all right, Mike, it's your turn. He'll send Grizz and I'll send my dog and my other guys will, and we'll take, just take turns. And you can only do that with good controlled like hunting, right? Like right. If none of those dogs were controlled, it just would've been chaos. Yeah. Just like, just dogs everywhere. Birds flaring. But we all had our dogs at heel and just kind of sitting there and then you just, if we knock two down, we'll just send a couple out at a time and, and, um, and yeah, I think, I think it's pretty cool. What, what's it, what, what do you enjoy about Waterfowling besides the dog? Anything else? Hit a, you know, Tyson, that's probably a podcast by itself been That's true. You know, part of my answer probably speaks to my own personality and psyche and how I think about things, but, you know, well, tell us about it. Well, I mean, the thought of migrating these birds, migrating, you know, wild birds migrating and, um, different species and they have different characteristics. Yeah. Um, you know, in terms of how you hunt them. Mm-hmm. Um, You know, the, the act of setting up your decoys, where you set'em up, how you set'em up, you know, all the conditions, uh, that you're dealing with, whether it's temperature, wind, sun, um, all of that. It's like a chess match to me. Oh, yeah. You know, is, you know, you read a lot of articles and, and even listen to other podcasts and you hear about, you know, people talking about being on the X. Mm-hmm. Well, th there, there's so much depth. Yeah. Just, you know, and, and all the variables, you know, temperature and time of day and, uh, decoys and, and just everything. Um, I love the, all the variables you have to consider all the, the things that go into having a successful waterfowl hunt. Yeah. And, and again, it's not about the numbers of ducks. You shoot it it, but. But planning sunrises, sunset, right. Smell the marsh, everything. You got it. But planning a good hunt. I love the excitement of that in, in learning that game, if you will. Understanding that to put yourself in a position to shoot a lot of birds and then you layer on top of that the experience, right. With the friends, you know, the relationship with the dog and watching them work and just, you know, creating the memories and the stories. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, my wife kids, me all the time cuz in my, I have a duck library at home, Tyson has seen it. That's sweet by the way. And uh, you need to sell those things. Yeah. But maybe we'll post a picture of the podcast that Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. But my wife laughs at me cuz when people will come over. You know, they'll say, oh man, that's a cool duck. And I'll say, yeah, let me tell you about, shooting that duck, like that hood hooded ganza I shot up in. Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, that neighboring stage you put it. Um, you know, I tell, I was with my buddy Tyson Erickson and it was January and there was, it was freezing cold. It was single digit temperatures things. Right, right. And, uh, I tell'em the story of each duck and my wife laughs at me like, how do you remember that? Like, you can't remember what we talked about this morning, but you can look at a duck and remember all those details. Oh, yeah. So to me, just those memories and being able to speak to that is part of what this is all about. Is there a certain species you like? Oh man, I get, I get asked that all the time. It changes. Yeah, it changes. I'll tell you what, and this isn't answering your question, but. You know, I've shot a lot of puddle ducks. I've shot a lot of divers. I have not shot a lot of sea ducks. Mm-hmm. And we gotta do that. I'm starting to turn, we're trying, we're trying to get some of those, we are, Mike's Mike's, he's, he's trying to get me to go. And I'm not, I mean, I want to go, it's just a matter of making the time to do it, but Right. You want to get some king items. Well, I'm turning my attention there next, but, um, well, you need, in your, wherever your office is on the opposite wall, you gotta have your C duck case. Yes. You know, that's what Yes, exactly. That's what you need to do. And have your divers and your c ducks or, or your puddles and your, well, your puddles and divers are mixed together, but right now they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But to answer your question, I would have to say the mallard. I love hunting mallards in the fields. Classic. Uh, I love hunting mallards, you know, over water in the marsh. Yeah. Um, I love calling them in. Yeah. You know, just how they respond. I love how, you know, they decoy. I mean all, all species decoy differently, right? Yeah. They fly differently. And I just love how a mallard flies and how they decoy in and all the different environments. You can, you can hunt'em. Yeah. I mean, you know, I've had a, a mallard hunt in a P field up in Canada that I will never forget. And that's so different from, you know, hunting and mal mallard's over in, over water in a marsh. Oh yeah. And it's the same bird. Yeah. And, uh, so I, if I had to pick one bird, I'd probably say if you had to shoot one bird the rest of your life, Matt green bean mallard. Yeah. Yeah. Mallards are cool. I thi I think it's, it's funny. It's, it's pretty cool. And I'm, you're good. I'm sure it get, you're probably really good now I'm sure. But, um, I'll go with people hunting in them and the, like, a duck will fly by at like 400, 500 yards and like, what's that? Or like, like, oh, that's a God wall. Like you can't even see it, but Right. You recognize'em by their shape and their shape and and size and their wings. Yeah. Their size. And so, and it's kind of, I think it's, you know, and that just takes time, like getting out in the marsh, seeing birds, you know, and you can just see the silhouette of a pintail, right. Or a gad wall or a we or the, you know, the call of the we or the call of the different species. And it's funny when you talk about people about like duck hunting, you know, duck hunting just doesn't sound like, like you're shooting ducks. Like that doesn't sound like exciting. Right. But like when you, all the little things that go into like learning how to call and maybe the ducks. Banded or you know, and I'm, I'm the same way I like to think about this. You know, the why bands are cool is cuz you didn't know where they came from, right. Like's, right. I shot a pintel that was banded in Alaska, you know, and they tell you how old the duck bird was and you just think of like the things they, where they were kind of raised. I don't know. I sometimes think that kind of, that nostalgia, like, I wonder where this thing hatched out and like how far it's traveled to get here before I stopped Its migration you know? And where they continue to go. And I think that, I think that's just kind of cool about the, the whole duck cunning experience. Yeah. Um, come back around, those hood gans. Now those things are, they're, they look like a little dart flying by. They do. You guys will call Palm Dart, right? Those things look fast. Yeah. That's one of my favorite birds. Just that big hood on'em, that the, if you get a good tax, they missing, excuse me, that they can put'em together. They look. They look pretty dang sweet. The cool thing, I like about Mike, and one is obviously your passion, but, two, he's become a really good handler. I was able to handle did you always wanna do hunt tests with him or how did that happen? No, you might have to. I blame you and I bring it up. Well, I'll tell you, you can blame me on most stuff when comes hunting. So I'll tell you what happened very quickly, guy. So you trained Greg, you took him through your whole program And I got him back right before the season started and we hunted him that season. Okay. And. He did really well. He came well from the first hunt to the last hunt, he improved dramatically. I mean, you, we probably need to go back to the first hunt. First hunt, and so people can know, even if you have a dog trained, sometimes it takes him a little bit. That's right. Just kind of bridge that gap. Training on First Hunt was a disaster. Funny to look back on. That's another great memory I'll never forget. But, um, at the end of the season, I called you Okay. And I said, Tyce, what can I do throughout the summer to keep Grizz progressing yeah. It's just, it's just in my dna n how I think. And so I, yeah. Okay. The season's over. What do I do throughout the summer to keep him progressing? I wanted a really good bird dog. Yeah. And you said, have you ever thought about hunt testing him? Mm-hmm. And I remember my response was, what's a hunt test? I had no clue. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you and I talked about it and you said, well, hey, I don't, I think he's better than a junior. Let's, let's put him in this senior series. And actually the first test you took him to. Mm-hmm. But that he went to, I, I couldn't go. You were gone. Yeah, I remember that. And yeah. And, and you took him and handled him. Did he pass his first test? He passed, yes. He passed. You sent me a text and said, Hey, he, he passed and then you sent me a picture with the ribbon. And I'm like, holy crap. And then you took him to another one and he passed. Yeah. And then, uh, the, the third test was here in Utah. Mm-hmm. I think the first two were both, I think in Nevada, Southern Nevada. Central Nevada Central. Right. Fallon, Nevada. Fallon and, and, um, the other one down at Overton. Overton, yeah. Where did we go? Overton with him. Mm-hmm. Okay. But, uh, anyways, the next test was here and he said, Hey, want don't, let's, let's enter him and come out and watch me. And, and, uh, That was a whole nother aspect of waterfalling. Yeah. I view it from a waterfalling perspective. Sure. A lot of guys are just pure tests, you know, that, do the tests, but I, I fell in love with it. I thought, man, this is awesome. An awesome way throughout the summer. Yeah. To keep the, not only working the dogs, but to keep them improving and advancing and do something with your daughter, doing something with him in the precision that's required and demanded from these hunt tests. Yeah. You know, plays big time when you take them back into the, the, the marsh or the fields to hunt. Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, yeah, so that's how I fell in love with that. And, and I think after that third test you said, well, why don't you handle him? Yeah. And I was scared to death. Did I handle him through his senior? I thought I handled him through his senior and first couple masters, and then you ha and then you did the resting. Something like, I, I can't that I thought, but I can't remember. Maybe it wasn't, yeah, I can't remember how we transitioned that, but, It doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. But somewhere there was a transition where you said, Hey, Mike, you, you know, and it goes back to that bond, like mm-hmm. Hey, if you do this, if you, if you start handling it, it's another way for you to bond with grizz. And, and, and the word you always use that I think is just spot on, is, you know, you're, it's gonna help you become more of a team, because that's what you are, whether you're hunting or testing, you are a team. Mm-hmm. You're relying on the dog, the dog's relying on you. Yeah. And that was another way for us to become a better team, a stronger team. Mm-hmm. A more precise team. Yeah. Um, so there, there goes the hunt game and or the test game, and man, now you know where I'm at on that. So Mike went on and finished his master title on Grizz, which is the highest title. With the AKC that you can get as Junior, senior Master. And then he qualified for Master National Amateur, which is a non-professional handler, handles the dog through X amount of hunt tests. And then he went to Master Nationals in California. Do you wanna tell a little bit about that? Yeah. So we, we, he qualified and, uh, uh, it's called the mark. Um, um, you know that organization? Mm-hmm. The Master Amateur Retriever Club. So you become a member and um, they have a national test, so dogs from around the country qualify and um, they all meet at the same test. And I had no expectations. You know, we, I drove out there, pull with my dad, we pulled a trailer. Um, the hunt test, the national test is six series. So a typical master test is three series. Yeah. Right. A water series, a land series, and then a combined Water Land series. Yeah. Well, the Master national is a double. Master test local, you know, your local, of your local test. And I remember telling my dad on the drive out, I was, how many dogs were running? Do you remember? Rough, roughly. They were like 170. Okay. These, these dogs are all across the country and they're all master level dogs. You gotta be a master hunter to qualify. Qualify, yeah. Right. And the amateur handled those. No. Tyson Erickson's handling the dogs. It's, it schleps like me. But, um, yeah, so it's cool. I mean, it's really fun. Everybody's rooting for everyone and you know, it's not like there's a winner and a loser. It's the, the dog is tested testing against the test. Yeah. Not against the other dogs. Yeah. But, um, I remember explaining all this on, on the drive out there with my dad as we're pulling that trailer out. And, uh, I remember telling him, gosh, if I could just get him to the third series, which would be the equivalent of passing a master test. Yeah. Halfway through, basically. Yeah. I said, if we could just get halfway through, I'd consider this a success. Yeah. And, uh, you don't wanna go out in the first series. No, no, no. But I remember you asked me to give you daily updates. Oh, hate text, right. Comment. And got through. We got through, we got through. I'm Mike. Oh, he's right there. Right. So it just, we got to the third series and, and I got, you know, I was really nervous and apprehensive and maybe even a little intimidated and Sure. Yeah. But gosh, you, we got there and we got into it and you just, you know it at anything, at a really high level, any sport, uh, basketball, football, whatever the Olympics, I mean, at, at that level, you just gotta be so focused. Oh yeah. That week was draining. Oh, I be, man, because you're just so focused and looking at one little thing and the dogs out. Yes. So they could break. Yes. Or they could get off the blind. And I mean, these things, you're the master level, so that's the highest level. They're they run it tight. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so he got to the third series, and I remember leaving you that text like, Hey, he got through. And at that point I was thinking we may have a shot at this. And he passed the fourth. He passed the fifth. And we got to the sixth and it was a brutal test. And I mean, dogs were going out in this last series, in fact, I saw really calmly, they try to cut, they tighten the things, tighten that up and say, let's see who can break through it. In fact, I saw five dogs go out on the last bird in the last series, the last, the sixth series. That's heartbreaking. You've been there all week. All week. Yeah. And, and the thing is, it's not, it's not just the time, it's the hours and preparation up until that point. Right. It's all the training and the time and like, you know, it's just, there's a lot that that goes into in the background. You don't see that gets up to that point. Right. So anyways, the last te the last series was tough and the last bird in the last series was a blind right along this ridge that it kind of fell off to the right, down to this kind of, Jeep Track, Jeep Trail and the wind was blowing that way. Mm-hmm. So when you sent the dogs along this Ridge Ridge line, they were all wanting to kind of fall, right? Fall fade with the wind. Yes. Yeah. And um, Man, I told my dad, I said, I don't care if I have to whistle sit him every 10 yards. He's staying on that. Keep him on line. I'm, I'm keeping him up on that ridge. I will not let him go down into that drainage. Was there grass and stuff down in there too? Yeah. Yeah. And some suck. Plus the wind, plus the grass. Sure. They set it up that obviously for a reason. Right. The dogs are gonna suck into that, that that's exactly what they were doing. Mm-hmm. And fortunately the way they rotated the starting order, I gotta watch a lot of the dogs run. Yeah. Which was a just luck of the draw. Yeah. But it helped me, I saw what the dogs' tendencies were and um, how the handlers were handling them, the mistakes they were making, the things that the guys who did well were doing. Right. Yeah. So by the time I got up there, I had a pretty clear plan about how I was gonna handle him to that last mark. Yeah. So if, if you guys just, if you're doing hunt tests, you'll. Or if you get into that game, a lot of people don't like to go first or second cuz they don't, you don't, you will get a rhythm or a fill of how the dogs do. You, you might look at a test, right? And be like, oh, this looks pretty straightforward, but all of a sudden all the dogs start fading left or right, going right. Or switch, you know, and it's like, what the heck? So they, they, there's something that draws the dogs that sometimes, most of the time you can kind of guess, but sometimes they set up stuff and you're like, I don't expect all the dogs to do that, do that. This could be that hard or whatever, you know? Right. So it's interesting how that happens. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off on that. No, no. I, I, I, I think I, I pretty much finished there, but yeah, that, um, so Grizz can't he, I got him to the bird. He, he, uh, and handled him fine and, and he brought it back. And I remember the two judges stood up out of their chairs and put their hands out to shake my hand and said, congratulations. Oh yeah, you have a master national dog. That's pretty sweet. So that was, That was a high point of, uh, you know, yeah. G grn ice relationship. Yeah. No, that's cool. That's, it's, you know, the hunt test is fun, especially if you're a competitive guy. I think a lot, I know some people get it and they're like, I don't even hunt anymore. I just run hunt tests or field trials. Right. For me, me personally, I'm talking, I, it does feel good when your dog crushes a test. You know, you get up and it, it does the test and does the job. That does feel good. But for me, the love is, you know, and I always talk and I, I always have to remind myself a dog doesn't get through a test or something like that. I'm like, this is still an awesome hunting dog, and I'm gonna still shoot a crap load of birds over it this fall, and it's gonna do everything I want and need to do, even though it just messed up on that one little section. It's not, it's what it is, what it is. It's not that big a deal. So. But I would say too, those that are, if you've never been to a hunt test, I would highly encourage you to go watch a hunt test. Like you'll just, it'll blow your mind. The level the dogs can actually work. A lot of people that, you know, even my clients, they don't even know, like they haven't seen a dog work at that high level and see what they can actually be trained to do. You know, most people's dog is about a junior hunter dog. Even if they get to that point and like, that's like the, the beginning, right? That's like the halfway there stepping stone or three a third of the way there. Right? And so I always just tell people, like, encourage'em, you know, just go to the hunt test. They're free generally to go into, you can watch'em and watch Junior hunters, watch senior Hunters and watch master hunters, and then you can be like, man, that's, that's the dog I want. That's the level I want. Right? I remember when I was, um, one of my first hunt tests I went to, And I watched a dog run a blind retrieve across the water, and he blew the whistle and the dog turned around and treaded water, and then he pointed him and the dog swam in that direction. This is before I, I was actually just kind of starting to train, you know, for some friends here and there in the beginning. And I was like, that, it was kind of another one of those lightning moments, right? I was like, oh, wow. What? They can do that, right? That's amazing. You know? And now at this point it's just like, it's just part of my daily things. I see. I'm like, oh, it just does that, you know, it's like, but it's, I remember that time when it was like really special, you know? And I even still to this day, as I'm training dogs, I just, you know, there's a bird or a, we put a bumper out there in training that's 200 yards out and they go down across the water or down the bank or whatever, and they, I'm like, that's amazing. They can just be handled to do those right things, you know? Right. It's like, it's just, it's just, again, part of that experience. And there, the reason I like duck hunting. Especially good duck hunting is, and I don't care necessarily, if I could choose decoy over jump shooting, it'd be for sure decoy. Right? But even jump shooting's fun. You might knock one over across the bank or across the river and you don't see'em, and you just allow, you get the dog to handle'em over there, pick it up and just test the dog. Mm-hmm. And just work'em, you know? And that's a, that's why I like just hunting is it's so different. It's, hunt tests are fun. They're, it's a different type of game to a point. I don't like sitting all day. I mean, it is fun to hang out with some of the, you know, like-minded friends and stuff. I like, I like that part part, right. But when it's hot, sometimes they can become long and if you just gotta run one dog or, or whatnot, you know. But, um, but I'd rather definitely be hunting. But again, back to hunting, it's just the, again, those little things you were talking about, the calling and the decoy and learning how to call and learning how to call the different duck calls and when they respond and all that stuff, you know? Right. So I remember we were. Mike, we were just up in my office and, uh, I had a, a Mandarin Chinese wood duck up there in Utah. There were some wild populations that people had released or something, and they got out. And I remember I was up, up in northern Utah hunting these things and I was on some private property of a client's and the river's running through and I'd heard that there were some up there. And, um, anyways, birds come burning by and I couldn't really tell what they were, but you know, they made just a little like till call or something. They banked around and I pulled up, boom, dumped one, and it sailed down through the trees and hit and I sent my dog and she's come back and they see the big sails on the wings mouth. Oh man, be careful. Don't hurt that one. Soft mouth got soft mouth. That one, that one's going on the wall. And so it was just fun to be like, I would've never got that bird if I didn't call to it, you know? And it luckily it was close enough to whatever, right? It calls, it responded and just turned and like, oh, there's a buddy over there. He fun. And I was able to put that on the wall. So that was kind of a. You know, a, a special, you know, memory about, just about duck hunting. So, um, anyhow, I'm trying, is anything else you can think of that we haven't t talked on? Yeah, I would just hit one more point and maybe for, you know, for those people, uh, you know, thinking about, uh, owning a, you know, a worldclass bird dog mm-hmm. And putting them through training and, and all those things. You know, another light bulb moment for me is, is, I think you put it Ty, was that, you know, you know, I think the world of you and, and I think you're a world-class trainer, and, and I think you'd agree, there's a lot of world-class trainers out there, guys that do a really good job. Absolutely. Yeah. But the one thing that, that you helped me realize is, You know, these dogs, when they go through these programs, they're essentially giving all the tools mm-hmm. To go out and be a great bird dog. Mm-hmm. But once that animal, once that that dog is handed back over to the owner, there's a huge responsibility Yes. To develop, keep developing those tools. Mm-hmm. You know, going back to Grizzly's first hunt, if you don't know how to use a tool, it's like, might as well not even be using it. Not even use it. Right. Yeah. I mean, if you put a big tractor in front of me, it's a great tool, but I don't know how to use it. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's the same with these dogs, so. Mm-hmm. You know, there's a, I think there's a, I realize there's a responsibility that, hey, I need to become a good handler, right? Mm-hmm. So that I'm not confusing him or, or making his life difficult. And, and by the way, I have a responsibility as well to help. Uh, help you know, my dog in this case. Mm-hmm. You know, take these tools that you've given him through your program and develop those and help those. Yeah. Those dogs flourish, uh, in this case, Grizz. That's a good thought. You know, going back to that first hunt you laughed at and said, Hey, maybe we'll come back to that and just 30 seconds. Yeah. You can tell. Yeah. I took, I took Grizz out on the first hunt after I got him back from you, and it was a disaster. I remember this overwhelming for him. I think you called me and said, Hey, how'd it going? I'm like, oh, man. And it was me and Cade, and, well, it's kind of your f. First Fir Me too. Was it your first Oh yeah. Learning together. Ca Cade shot the first bird and it went down and I was all excited cuz we had grizz, newly trained, all this is good grizz and he doesn't do anything really. Yeah, well he, he did, he kind of looked around. He was nervous, right? Yeah. He'd never sat on a stand in a marsh before. At least I don't think he had. And you know, it was all new to him. Yeah. And so, and finally he, he realized, oh, I gotta go. And so he went and he, he went through the decoys and got all tangled up and, you know, he eventually brought the bird back. And, and Kate and I were just laughing cuz he'd knocked my gun in the water and spent a bunch of money turning this dogs. And I'm thinking anything, I'm like, this is like, this is it. This is what I get. Yeah. But you, you and I talked and then, and I realized very quickly like, man, I've got a responsibility to take these tools that he's been given. Yeah. And turn'em into this. And now he's a surgeon, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's not. Whether we're hunting, airboat, hunting on the great Salt Lake, or we're up in Canada, you know, field hunting or Yeah. In the marsh or down in Arkansas. Grizz, I have a hundred percent confidence in every situation that he knows what to do at a world class level. Yeah, yeah. Now you make a good point. And that's, I've, and that's something too, you know, with our, with our clients is, is, I tell'em is when you get your dog back from training, it's good to take'em in those areas. You're gonna be hunting, like if you hunt from a boat or you hunt out of a blind, and that's how you hunt. Then really if you can take him into the same marsh area, you're gonna be hunting and Right. And take a shotgun out there with some still shot and put out some decoys and throw a bumper in, shoot. And then when you go back in, you know, hunting in a week or two weeks or whatever, the dog's like, okay, I've done this. You know, and so, so there is a gap. You can't, when training, you can't set up everything exactly the same way that people are gonna hunt, you know? And so some people, we train'em out of a boat right now, we currently don't. Cuz not everyone hunts out of a boat. And we've thought about doing it as like an upgraded package thing or something like that. Hey, we'll take'em outta your boat. But even at the same point, your boat's gonna be different than my boat. You may sit'em on the bow, one might guy want'em on the pod. And so it's like, so I deal, I just usually tell like, go out in the summer, you gotta take some ownership like you're talking about and take that dog out, work him off the bow, work'em off the pod, set up your blind. Cuz if you, if you, if you can minimize those. If you can prepare'em for those things, your hunt's gonna go smoother. Right? So I've had some hunts where I've taken dogs for their first legitimate hunt and it's like smooth as butter. And then you have some that, you know, maybe like grizz first time he is a little overwhelmed. There's a lot going on. You are probably overwhelmed. Were new y'all. Absolutely. Maybe, you know, and so there's a lot to it. Something we've done now that helps clients and we didn't do back then too, is we make videos that they can go back and watch how to handle their dog and do those things. And then obviously too, if you have a trainer, you know, helping you out, like don't hesitate to reach out to'em. Cuz most of the time if the dog was trained properly and you get a little, you can get a little coaching from your trainer and be like, Hey man, try this or do this, or be patient with him, right? Let's take him out again. Or, you know, and a good trainer's gonna to kinda lead you, you know, lead you by the hand. We've, we've trained a few dogs and you know, the had been with the trainer and I'm like, okay, what are the commands that dog had? And they're like, I don't even know the commands. I'm like, like, okay, well that's a problem. So, and I think most good trainers should either spend time with you or have, you know, should spend time with you at some level for sure. You know, when the dog goes home or whatever. And then at the very least, have a li a command, a uh, written out list of commands. So you know what language to talk to your dog in, right? Because you're, you're teaching him a language, right? And what that language means in action. So it's like someone teaching us Chinese and this word means this. Well, if all of a sudden you start talking to him in Spanish, it's like, I don't even know what the heck you does Talking does mean about, right. And I, I do see that sometimes with like past clients. They'll, like, I'll say, the command to come to you is here. And they'll just all of a sudden start saying, come or what? And they just, I'm like, no. Like you have to use the language they're taught. So really try to make that, you know, part of your muscle memory if you do have a dog, you know, trained by someone and really. You know, just learn, invest and become a good handler. And another suggestion I would say is, you know, in addition to hunt tests, there's a lot of clubs that you, you know, you can get on Facebook or guys that are looking to train with people. And if you have time to do that, like surround yourself with people that are running dogs at higher levels and they're gonna be able to help you or coach you along if you have a dog. We just had a dog that was a client's dog and we sold a guy out in California and he's in California. Well, I spent about, he is had zero handling experience, but I spent about five or six hours with him and it was kind of a long day and I could tell his brain was starting to get overwhelmed by the end of it, you know, but, but he was jumping in like you and is like, Hey, I found two trainers in California and they're gonna let me come kind of work with'em or come run my dogs and watch their dogs work. And kind of just, I think if you go to this hunt test, you can see a lot of, like, especially if you watch that master level, if that's your goal. Like senior master watch, kind of, you know, a bunch of different handlers handle, and you'll see handlers that maybe are less experienced and you'll see. But definitely watch the pros and those that have had more experience and then try to just basically copy'em. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think the best advice that, that you, you gave here in this conversation was for an owner to put their dog in the situation they're gonna be hunting. Yeah. If it's out of a, in a little field house or out of a boat or in a field over, over water and practice in those environments, that, that, when it comes to hunting season mm-hmm. It becomes automatic for the dog. They're not unfamiliar with something. Yeah. You know, um, they know what to do. It's just that if you want to have a good hunting season, I would say practice, you know, how you're gonna be hunting in the summertime and that that'll really get the dog ready. In training. We've tried to transition more this way too. A lot of your, if you've never been to a hunt test, what happens a lot is there's a guy out there standing behind a blind. They'll blow a duck call, he'll, they'll either throw a live duck or throw a dead duck and they'll shoot a shot. But the dogs do tend to mark a lot off like the blinds and kind of the guy out there. And, and it's very, it's kind of calculated and kind of set up. Sometimes they'll hide the blinds, they're harder and it's more realistic duck hunting. But we've tried to even do this more with our, with our only hunting dogs. And they're not testing. We do, we're trying to do more, everything concealed. And so the, like, my bird boys or my helpers, like the dog doesn't see'em, and all of a sudden, you know, a bird comes outta nowhere and we're shooting over the dog just like a real hunt. So when that gunfire goes off, or a duck were to come quickly into your decoys in a hunt, and all of a sudden the gun goes off. The dog's kind of looking around like, Hey, where's the bird? You know, type thing. And I think that that makes a better gun dog. Cuz there there is a different, it's good to train both, but it is good to, I think if you're specifically a only honey's, a gun dog, you want a lot of those setups when you just start shooting the dogs looking around for birds instead of like, the guys out there quacking to kind of get the dog's attention and then you throw the bird and then they shoot the shot and then you send them, if you only do those type of setups, I think the dogs can kind of struggle when all of a sudden it's low light conditions and guns boom, boom, boom, are going off. Right? What? And the dog's like, what the heck's going on? I'm usually used to a guy that quacks up. I'm waiting to hear the quack. Yeah, he quacks and then he shoots a single shot and then throws the bird, you know? And so, And that's something I actually wanted, probably gonna do another podcast on the difference in like hunt test training and like gun dog training, you know? Right. That's kind of some of the, the basic strong crossover, but they are different. Yeah. Yeah. And dogs can be, and they're complimenting both. Right. Right. It's good to have both done. Yeah. And then, you know, and then you're kind of hooked. So. Well, we better, we better wrap this up. One last thing. I want to hear about your journal though, before we Oh, yeah. Wrap up. Yeah. Kind of how you got that idea and where it came from. I, you know, I'm not sure where the idea came from. Um, I, I really can't remember. It's your love for the sport, I guess. Yeah. Well, I just, I had a thought around, you know, understanding how many retrieves Grizz had, you know, uh, in a season and Yeah. Like a proud papa or, yeah. Well, it's just kinda interesting to note too. Yeah. Well, and not, I mean, hey, I'm getting a little older and, and I wanted to be able to go back and just remember some of these Yeah. These hunts. Um, you know, how long have you been doing it for? Uh, f from the point I started. Oh, really? Yeah, so I've got probably four or five different journals full. And, uh, you know, it's, it's, you've recorded all of his retrieves or maybe the second year or something like that? No, I think I've got'em all. I think I have'em all. Yeah, that'd be cool to go back back and be like, dude, I shot 10,000 birds over, or whatever, in his lifetime. Well, he's got thousands and thousands of retrieves. Mm-hmm. But I think live birds, he's probably got, I don't know, 13 or 1400 at this point. Yeah. That's awesome. So, uh, You know, and I consider it, you know, if I can get three or 400 a season, that's a really good season. Oh yeah, that's a great season. So, um, but yeah, it's, it's, so I have this journal and, you know, it's, it's not just, you know, the number of retrieves he had. You know, I keep track of the species of ducks that we shot and what do you keep track of? Yeah. What do you put in there? Yeah, so, so, um, you know, obviously the date who I hunted with. Okay. Um, where we were hunting cuz we hunt in a lot of different places. Mm-hmm. Um, I'll even put what gun I was using, um, I'll put the kind of decoy spread, you know, just the number of decoys, the species of decoy, which ties to what you're shooting, but Sure. It just kind of, it's pretty detailed though. Yeah. Yeah. It just, I don't draw like a picture of it or anything. I just, you know, 36, you know, full bodies or you know, whatever, that kind of stuff. And then I'll list, um, you know, the birds that we killed mm-hmm. They're species on gender. Mm-hmm. And, um, so at the end of the season I can see, oh geez. Yeah. Oh, and, and then obviously which of those birds, uh, grizz retrieve, cuz sometimes it's just grizz. Yeah. The only dog. But sometimes, like you've said, yeah. You know, when we go, go sometimes the neighboring state, I mean, there's five or six dogs, he's not retrieving every bird. Yeah. So, um, so I keep track of the number of those birds that he retrieved. Hmm. And it's fun to go back and, you know. Yeah. And, and I'll, and there will be a, I have like a miscellaneous section like you said earlier, if the sunrise was just, Yeah. Ex, you know, especially neat. I'll comment on the, that's pretty cool. The sunrise or, you know, I've seen, you know, hawks or eagles mm-hmm. You know, feeding on an airboat hunt. One, uh, hunt one time on the great Salt Lake, we were out, we were flying over the ice. Mm-hmm. And in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the great Salt Lake, we see this coyote running across the ice. He'd been Oh, that's cool. He'd been hunting out there and we started chasing him in the airboat. And Did you guys get him At one point I literally could have reached over to the side of the airboat and grabbed him. Wow. But he was scared to death bear. Yeah. But anyway, so I, did he slipping around or was he, you know, he, he was, uh, he pretty good. Yeah, he had pretty good traction. Yeah. But he had nowhere to go and we were zeroing in on him. But anyways, I wrote that, I recorded that in that in the journal, you know, that needs to part of those adventures and hunting. Right, right. So, so if you look through each hunt, there's one or two of those coyote stories. Yeah. That kind of separate that hunt. It could be a sunrise, a sunset, it could be the temperature, it could be something I saw. But it just, it's a neat way to kind of reflect and go back and remember. And, uh, so yeah, that's why I do it. I think that'll be cool when he passes. You know, you can put like, he can have his like Memento case or something, you know, you could stack his journals like, this is Grizz stuff, you know? Right. Like, these are his bands that maybe we got with the birds, or these are his, you know, his ribbons and this is his, the Journal of all his birds and something you can kind of remember. Because like in our lifetimes, you know, depending on how many dogs you have, you might not be able to have a, you know, maybe, you know, you have cash now that's up and coming and you know what you're, what are you? 60, 55, 57, 57. Can't remember your exact age. But, um, but, you know, maybe, maybe three more. Do two, three more dogs. Right. Total, you know, our lives are pretty short. Right. And so it's like, and so maybe you have those, you know, those. You know, the, the learning, you're gonna have all those memories of like cash when, you know, he had kind of a learning curve experience last year. Right. And that's a whole nother You mean like I wanted to re-home him at one point and I'm like, Mike, you gotta remember hunting with the dog that passed Master Nationals. Right. And he's eight years old now. You have a one year old. Right, right. You know, so it's, so sometimes it's funny cuz we get caught up, you forget, sometimes you, oh, life goes so fast. You forget how those dogs, you know, the little things that they, I remember when we did that handoff and he was kind of struggling on that water blind and you know, now we just run that way. Oh you mean Grizz gr Griz. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah. We're running'em on this water blind. I was, hey, we're gonna get this bumper that's up against these reeds. And he was kind of fighting it and that was the day I was picking him up. Yeah, that was the day. Yeah. We were running it and it was maybe, maybe it was a little too much for him cause it was like this kind of channel blind, it was up against these reeds the way wind had pushed it and he thought it was like a wall. And I'm like, no, I'm gonna make him do it, you know? But. It's funny, you have those little experiences that kind of seem to fade away and you remember, you still remember some of'em? Oh yeah. That the good, that those kind of three, four years starts getting good, they kind of start to blend. So I think it's cool you're kind of keeping track of Right, right. That kind of stuff, you know? So, um, yeah. Well, we better wrap it up so we can get you home. Is there anything else? No, thanks for having me entice. It's, uh, just talking about it brings back a lot of memories and we're both sitting here smiling, just getting excited for the hunts, you know? Yeah, exactly. We're only, it's, it's crazy. We're bringing dogs on, you know, right now that are, you know, we got our foundation training. It's usually about four month program. We're starting to hit into like, September, I mean, five, six months. Right. It's gonna be opening up again. Yeah. It's not gonna look, it's not far away. Not far away. We'll be getting those dogs back out in the field, so. All right folks, thanks for listening to the Bird Dog podcast. Hope you enjoyed that. Thanks Mike, so much for spending some time and, and talking bird dogs and, and our passion for these amazing animals. So until next time, have a great day.