(EP. 37) E- Collars what we use and recommend. What we like and don't like.

In this episode we discuss electric collars for dog training. We go over three main brands. Dogtra, Garmin & Sportdog. The things that we like and don't like. If you are wondering what we use on a daily basis check this one out. 

On a side note it does look like Dogtra has changed their e - collars to have waterproof contact points. 

Check out Kuranda dog beds and click on name below to buy one of the best dog cots on the market. 

Also, if your looking for some paw balm, shampoo, dog supplements, treats or other awesome healthy products click on the All American Canine link below for their awesome products. This helps us out a little financially to support the show and we really appreciate it. I like the whitening shampoo if you have a white dog in any shape or form. It really makes the white pop and does an awesome job. The paw and nose balm is good stuff for sore feet and pads after you hunt all day. Really everything they make has good quality ingredients in it. 

Links to products:

Kuranda Dog Beds

ALL American Canine

If you want any dog training topics or questions discussed shoot us an email at thebirddogpodcast@gmail.com

For Gunner kennels shoot us an email and we can get you a price at thebirddogpodcast@gmail.com

For our training and breeding websites visit the links below:

www.utahbirddogtraining.com
www.fieldbredgoldenretrievers.com
www.utahpointinglabs.com

Follow us on Instagram @fieldbredgoldenretrievers, @thebirddogpodcast and @utahbirddogtraining

Thanks for listening everyone and good hunting!

Transcript

Tyce: 0:36

Hey everyone. Thanks for tuning into the show. My name is Tyce Erickson. I am the host of this show. And just to give you guys a little background about me, if you're new to listening, I've been training gun dogs, uh, for a living now for 17 years. So the things we share with you on this show are things that. I have seen and learned from firsthand experience while training these amazing dogs, love dogs, been training dogs ever since I was a little kid. And we train everything from pointers to retrievers, to mixed breeds, to whatever people bring us. So, uh, we have a lot of experience training, lots of different breeds, working with lots of different personalities. And on this show we're gonna share with you. Those things that we've learned and that we've seen. So if you have any topics about certain breeds or training questions, go ahead and send us a, uh, an email at, um, the Bird Dog podcast@gmail.com. Go ahead and send us an email and we'll try to get those questions answered for you. If you have any topics, uh. That you'd be interested in us talking about? So, um, a couple companies that we really like and you guys can go ahead and check out if you're interested. There's All American Canine. Um, if you go to all American canine.com, they have a bunch of different supplements for your dog. They have some shampoos. Um, something I really is pretty cool if you have a dog that has white in it, they have a whitening shampoo, um, that actually really helps that white on your dog's coat pop. And it actually goes pretty long ways. The, the shampoo, there's nothing that kind of bugs me more when you have to dump half a bottle of shampoo just to get your dog to lather up, you know? So this stuff goes pretty, pretty long ways. It's priced pretty fairly, so, um, you can check those things out. They also have these. Um, treat. They have some duck treats for your dogs, duck heads, duck necks, um, uh, duck feet. You can actually feed your dogs. So, um, if I've given them some, some of 'em to my dogs and they seem to really like 'em, so, um. If you want to give your dog a treat, that's something you could try. They're like a dehydrated, um, duck, head, feet, stuff like that. So anyways, check 'em out. They got all sorts of stuff. Um, if you, if you order something through the link in the show notes, that helps us out. So if you do buy something, buy it through there, that would be awesome. Helps support the show, motivates us to keep it going. Um. Also another, um, affiliate we have is NDA, dog beds, um, K-U-R-A-N-D-A. If you go to nda.com, um, you can see their dog cots. Um, and they are the best dog bed slash cot that I have found that hold up now. There's nothing that's, um. Indestructible right? Over time something can happen to anything but these things, we hammer 'em day in and day out. Um, we get the anodized aluminum, so we want the aluminum frame on the bed, and that's the heavy duty B ballistic vinyl, I believe is what I have in my beds. And you know, eventually after years. Having dogs use 'em every day. I may have to replace that vinyl, but it's really slick. You pop a few screws off, you order a new vinyl, you slide it in, boom, you're ready to go. So, um, they're pretty dang indestructible. You can replace parts on 'em, super easy. I've had some other companies where I've tried out their cots and I go out to my dog run the next day and the thing's just a mangled mess of fabric and metal and. I was like, how? And so unless you're sitting there watching your dog babysitting it day in and day out. You know, maybe that could work. But if you're like me, you have a busy life and you have kids and you're training other dogs, you can't sit there and just watch your dog and tell it, you know, not to chew on its bed 24 hours a day. So check 'em out if you get a bed through the link. Um, that really, that helps us out. And then also they're great for place training or just taking 'em in your house and just having a spot for them to go and to hang out on. Um, you can take 'em camping. They don't fold up. It'd be cool if they folded up, but they're not that big and they're pretty dang light. And so you can just, um, you know, take 'em camping with you too. Have a dog, a spot for the dog to hang out on, or just keep him in your house somewhere. Um, they basically take the place of a. A dog bed or something like that. You could obviously have your caught too and put a dog bed on top of that Also, um, not necessarily affiliate with them, but they do help us out. Some crispy boots, if you guys are an upland hunter or. Just a hunter of any sense. I'm a big game hunter too. I don't really go into that on this podcast much, but I do a lot of big game hunting. Um, crispy boots are the best boots that I have seen on the market, so check out crispy boots. If you're shopping for a hunting boot, check out crispy. Um, C-R-I-S-P-I and they are awesome. You really can't go wrong with any of their boots. I've just picked up a pair that I'm using in training every day. It's just more of a low cut, and I am, I love 'em. I use 'em for hunting, deer, elk, big game, upland hunting, chuck or hunting, all those things. Just daily training. So if you're looking for a hunting boot and you don't know which one to get, check out the lines. Line of boots at crispy. And you can't go wrong. So hope you guys enjoy this podcast. Um, bear with me. I've been a little under the weather. Um, had a little cold. I'm starting to beat it. Beat it up now and it's starting to go away. But, uh, hope you enjoy this podcast. I go over e collars are super important. It's an amazing tool when used. Correctly and the, and using the right eco. So hope you enjoy this one as I go over Ecos and we'll see you later. All right. Welcome to the Bird Dog Podcast. My name is Tys Erickson. I will be your host today of the show. Thanks for tuning in. As you can hear, my voice is a little scruffy. Uh, I have been sick the last little while. It seems like in when I'm, when I mentioned to people that I've been sick, they're like, man, we've had that too going around. So got a little congestion in the chest kind of clearing out. I'm feeling pretty good today. Yesterday I was feeling pretty crummy and under the weather. So I think we're on the up and up though, so that is good. Um, and this podcast I wanted to talk about ecos. So, um, you know, ECOS is something that we use every day in training pretty much. And. You know, sometimes I think in these podcasts I need to come up with some, you know, rocket science idea, but a lot of people that are listening to this are just starting out or don't know what the best eco is. So in this podcast, I just wanted to go over ecos, which ones we like, which ones we recommend and have used, and why we like them and why we don't like some, and. And so if you're in the market for an eco, you can hopefully use this information to help you out and, uh, get you the caller that you've always dreamed of. So, um, so the one I'm gonna start off with, the one that we use most of the time and the one we use most of the time is the Garmin Pro five 50. So a little bit an overview of the Garmin Pro five 50. It, um. Is a great caller. Sorry I was a little distracted there by my phone. Uh, it's a great caller. Uh, that, so originally Tris, um, had a, an e caller called the Pro 100, and I love that e caller. This was years ago. And Garmin came in and bought out Tris, and now we have Garmin and Tris. They've basically kind of morphed or changed or added their new technology or spin to the old Tris collars. So. I really liked the Pro 100. I actually wish it was still here, and there were some reasons I liked it. Um, I guess I'll just jump right into it. The Pro five 50 is a great caller for 95% of your dogs has enough stimulation level from the low end to the high end. It's gonna cover most of your dogs with no problem. Uh, the Pro 100 had a higher, had a higher end. Um. Electricity level. So that being said, occasionally I'll have some dogs that are very not responsive to stimulation, so they just have a high pain threshold, whatever you want to call it. You can, you could use a hole, a seven high, seven high on the eco, and the dog's just like, whatever. No big deal. I can't, I can't, I don't understand how they do it, but there's some dogs that just are not sensitive to. Electricity. That is a rarity. But that being said, when you're trying to get the dog to work or avoid pressure or avoid, you know, being, having some discomfort in its life, it has to get uncomfortable enough that the dog wants to respond. If it's not uncomfortable enough for the dog to respond, the dog can just be like, eh, whatever. And they can just, they can just take it and it's hard to break through that and move on. So. Uh, that being said, the Garmin Pro five 50. Most dogs are in that lower spectrum with the eco. Um, you don't usually need a lot of pressure. Occasionally you just have that outlier. The Pro 100 seemed to have the upper reach that I could get under the dog's skin if needed, and the new Garmin profile 50 does not have that. I'm not sure if it's a liability thing that they kind of have that threshold or a battery issue. If, um, or why they changed that exactly. I'm guessing it's some type of liability issue. I don't know if they had an, uh, bad experience at some point previous dogs, but TRI was around forever and that's what they had, and it seemed to work good. So, uh, pros to the Garmin Pro five 50, the Garmin Pro five 50 has a one mile range. I'm sure that's like on a flat field or an ocean, you know, something flat. I like more antenna than not, so, excuse me. Again, my voice is really rough this morning, but bear with me. The reason I like more antenna is if you're in trees, your your dog runs around a house or anything like that. It's always better to have more reach than not. A lot of people are like, I don't need a mile range. My dog's not gonna be a mile from me. I agree. Most of the time your dog's not gonna be a mile away from you, but if you have, you add structure and stuff like that, you're gonna have an antenna that reaches your dog better to receive the signal. If you only have like a three or 400 yard range, well that's gonna cut. That back that much more. Again, that's gonna be an open site, and so if you have house or trees, you're out gruse hunting, doing something like that, that's gonna cut down on your antenna power and you may not be able to reach your dog, you know, maybe past a hundred yards. Who knows? For sure. On that. So I do like a longer range, at least half mile, probably minimum. But um, the garden profile, Fiji has a one mile range. It's waterproof the part on the dog's neck. Most ecos these days that are for hunting dogs are gonna be waterproof on the neck. The handheld unit is also waterproof, but it also floats, which is kind of cool. Um, I think I learned that on accident. I was out working, dropped it in the water, boom, floated up. I'm like, oh, that's a cool feature. So for you duck hunters that are gonna be out in the marsh, you have your eco, if you drop it in the water, it's gonna float up the transmitter that goes in your hand. So I think that's also another pro. Um, the Garmin Pro five 50 have seven levels of stimulation, and you have a low, medium, high built in each level, so there's 21 levels, so you can more fine tune according to your dog's needs. Maybe your dog's a, a too low, too high to medium, three high, and, and, and so you can kind of fine tune it, but also if you need to give him a quick nick. And you need a little higher power. You can use, you can jump from a low to a high by just pushing both the buttons at the same time, or moving up one button to the medium or hitting 'em both the same time with the together for a high. And that's gonna give you a little higher juice without having to turn the dial on the top to like a, you know, the next number up if you're using the. Sport Pro, the Garin Sport Pro, which is your next collar down that has a little dial on this, that you a little thumb dial and that goes one through, man, I can't remember off the top of my head. One through nine, but it does not have a low, medium, high. I see you have that. 1, 2, 3, 4. And, uh, so there's a little less fine tuning there also with some of your other eco systems. Occasionally when running sport dog, I've had dogs that are very collar sensitive and you can be on the lowest of low with say the sport dog, 1825, and that dog and that eco is still too high for that dog. So there is some, there is some understanding your dog. Um. Finding the right level. That's all we want with that ear. The eco is, it's a, that the dog fills it. It's like that's a little uncomfortable. I don't really like that, so I'm gonna do what you're asking. But it's not in such a pain threshold that it's like, ow. It hurts so bad they can't think through it. The dog has to think, it has to reason through that pressure. And so if it's too high, they're just not gonna. They're just gonna freak out and not respond, you know? So, um, so you wanna make, find that good, comfortable level, and there's times you're gonna have to adjust that. If things get really exciting, you're gonna have to turn that pressure up a little higher if it's just you're in kind of maintenance mode working on some ob obedience in your backyard. You just need that nice low level. If you're gonna go on a walk and you know, your dog gets pretty anxious when it sees other dogs or, um, other critters out there on the walk, or people, you may have to turn that up a little higher, you know, pull a little tighter on the invisible leash per se. So, um, another cool feature I do like about the new profile 50 has airing lights built into it. Um, so. Airing lights are these little LED lights that are built onto the receiver, so the part that goes on the dog's neck. Those are cool. You can turn 'em on remotely. So there's a little toggle that says A for accessory. You can go ahead and flip that up to a hit the top button. Those lights are gonna go ahead and turn on. And so if you're going on a walk at night and you want people to see your dog so it doesn't get hit by a car or. You let your dog out into the backyard to go to the bathroom and you have that ecar on, you can flip those lights on and see it run around. I use it a lot when I'm going hunting early in the morning. When you're duck hunting a lot, it's dark, and so you're getting the decoys, you're getting stuff outta the truck. You let your dog out to go to the bathroom. Go ahead and flip those lights on, and you can see your dog running around and where your dog's at. So that is a really cool feature. Another cool feature that I like about the Garmin, uh, pro five 50 is the, it has a built-in bark collar. So you can hold the on button on the receiver. It's gonna flash like a green. When it goes blue, um, you keep holding it in, it'll go green, blue. When it goes blue, you'll let off. And now it's set in bark collar mode and it actually will correct the dog as it starts barking without you even being there. So, um, pretty cool feature. A bar, a good bart collar is gonna run you probably a minimum of a hundred dollars for a good, reliable brand. And so, you know, you're gonna retail price on a Garmin Pro, five 50 is 3 99 99, so 400 bucks. So if you have a barking dog that you want to use, a bark collar. On him. Um, you know, and you look at the Garmin and you're like, man, that's quite a bit of money. Kind of realize you get kind of two call, you get a bark collar plus a training collar that's built in. So, um, that's something to kind of, to consider, uh, the, when the dog's collars come to you or when you buy the collar. The receiver, so the part on the dog's neck is gonna have shorter contact points on it. It's can come with a little tool and they, those just unscrew out. I would recommend taking those shorter ones out and putting the longer ones in. Even with a, even with a short hair or something like that, that has a shorter coat, I still like the longer ones. If you think about it, the tips of those have to rest on the skin. And if you're running a really short collar, short contact points on the collar. You're gonna have to tighten that collar down around the dog's neck that much more to be consistently on the skin. And obviously if you have longer contact points, you're not, not gonna have to tighten that collar down as much to just get a, get a contact on the skin. So that's, I recommend switching those out for every dog. I don't know why they don't come standard long. I mean, to be honest, it's like you have those short contact points with a thick lab coat, you can't even get it, get through it. So, um. And a lot of people, his people were pretty good at not reading instruction. So a lot of people, clients show up, they have a lab, they have the short contact points in, and you're gonna have to pretty much choke your dog to get those to get down to the skin or have it extremely tight, or you're just not gonna, the e collar's not gonna work very good. So go ahead and switch those longer contact points out and you're gonna be more successful. Um. Those are some of the pros. I, uh, well, let's go over a couple more things. Gar Pro five 50. You can run three dogs on that one handheld transmitter, so you can add additional receivers. I. And run three dogs off it, which I really like that aspect. Um, and you just toggle, there's a little toggle switch and you just toggle between the three dogs and, uh, it's really slick. It's easy to use and pretty straightforward. So I do like that. Um, couple things I've seen over the years, the Garmin Pro five 50. Occasionally I'll have an antenna issue. I'm not sure what happens, but after about. Um, it can be anywhere from 15 to 20 feet. The sig, the antenna just, I don't know. It must break inside, internally something and it does not reach the dog. So if for some reason your antenna's having issues, you know, have your buddy ho hold the, or your dog acts like it's not receiving anything. Have someone hold the trans, the receiver, you run the transmitter, run the vibration or the electricity. And when you push the electricity or the vibration mode in. If it's vibration, obviously you're gonna feel it vibrate in your hand. If it's electricity, there's gonna be a little light on the receiver, the part that goes on the dog's neck that's gonna light up. Make sure as they walk away from you and they're walking a distance, that when you're holding in a constant electricity that you can see that light, that that light's gonna stay on. Well, you'll see if you have an antenna issue, that's gonna obviously stop working. It's not receiving the signal. And something in the receiver needs to be replaced. Um, and if it's a transmitter issue, obviously you try a different receiver. So another receiver, you know, that's been working with your transmitter. And if you're pushing that and the receiver. If you're getting the same, same issues, then you gotta kind of just play with it, right? So, um, if the transmitter, I'm trying to think on the transmitter. If the transmitter issue, you try a new collar. If it's not a transmitter issue, you're gonna find it with the collar that goes around the dog's neck. So you gotta kind of. Figure out which one it is that's not working. Um, and then either replace that, um, and replace it, I guess, or fix it. So Garmin has a pretty good deal. I need to actually send some in, but I. In the past, I'm not sure if they're still doing it as of today, you could double check, but if you had a caller issue, you can send in the receiver or the transmitter and for a hundred bucks, they're gonna go ahead and replace that transmitter receiver for you and give you a new one. I'm not sure if it's a re, it might be a refurbish, but they basically look brand new. They've gone through 'em. They res, they, they, they respond like a brand new caller. So. That's a pretty cool deal. If you do have an issue with your transmitter or receiver, they usually have a one year warranty. Um, when you buy the caller system, if there's any issues that first year, they're gonna go ahead and just fix it for you, um, to fix something. They're gonna look at the serial number that's on there. On the transmitter and the receiver, there's one usually where the collar strap wraps around the, the receiver box that goes on the dog's neck. So kind of pay attention that doesn't get rubbed off. If not, um, you can always do their replacement program. So, um, that's a pretty cool deal that they have that replacement program. Overall, there's no eco. That's perfect. Um, those are the issues I have seen with some of the gar main One is antenna, antenna issues, and you can't see it, but it's either in the receiver or the transmitter that they're just not connecting. And it's usually a distancing. It's kind of weird. It's like more than 10 feet or 20 feet, it just. There's no connection. So it doesn't happen very often, but I have seen it happen. So hopefully Garmin can fix that one day and, uh, and mitigate that problem. So we don't ever see that again. So, uh, I think that's pretty much it for the Garmin Pro five 50. Um, if you are an upland only guy and you have a bigger running dog. I would run the Garmin Pro five 50 plus. I like that one. Um, the difference between the Pro five 50 and the five 50 plus is the handheld unit is a little bigger and it now you're jumping up to A-G-P-S-I. So now you're running a, a receiver on the dog's neck has an antenna and I believe it's a two mile range that you can track your dog. So it's nice if you're hunting trucker country, you're hunting grouse, country wooded stuff around the lake where it's really thick, cattail, something like that. And you have a dog that's getting out there and hunting around. It's gonna have a little digital arrow in the, on the, on the face of the. Transmitter that'll actually track your dog. It just, it'll move as you hold that transmitter one place and it'll say your dog's 200 yards that way, 400 yards that way, 500 yards that way. So if you have a dog that you tend to, you can lose, um, that's a cool unit for, if you're an upland guy, you have a pointer of some sort. So check out the Pro five 50 plus you can get into the Alpha and those up, other ones that are more GPS stuff. I personally, I'm not a big tech guy, so I don't really use the Alpha and all those other, you know, higher tech technologies. I just want, the workhorse tells me where my dog's at. It works. It's reliable, it's consistent, and that's why I generally just play at the five 50 plus and uh, uh. Uh, pro five 50. So if you are looking for, let's go down the next level. They have the, which is called the Sport Pro. Um, the Sport Pro is a smaller handheld unit, so that is kind of nice. Um, it is simplified, so it'll have like a cons, have like a button that says continuous constant vibrate tone. And uh, it actually runs the same receiver, so the same collar, the Pro five 50. Um, pairs with, um, so the Pro five 50 and the Sport Pro, um, they run the same collar. So the part that goes on the dog's neck, it's the same, it's just the transmitter that you're playing with. That's different things I don't like about the transmitter on the pro, on the sport Pro is the buttons are kind of just a rubber button that you push and you can't really fill when it presses in real well. Um, and with gloves it's kind of even harder and so. I don't like that the Pro five 50 has kind of like a, it's like a bubble button. When you push it, it kinda, there's a rim so you can feel that it's. Pressing in and you can just fill it easier and, and also it just seems like I can occasionally connective connectivity issues, I have a little more with the sport pro. It's like I'll be working the collar and I'll push like a three and it's like it's not really connecting and then I of a sudden it'll just like connects. There's a little bit of variable, little bit of play to that collar that I feel like with the Pro five 50. When I generally hit 'em with like a three low, it's gonna be boom, it's gonna be three low, it's gonna be consistent, it's gonna be just right on the money. So there's something from that little transmitter to the receiver that happens that it works most of the time. And if you're just doing obedience training, that's one that will work. Um, if you're wanting it for hunting, I would. Recommend spending more money and getting the Pro five 50. So I've used both of those, but I would, I would lean heavily towards the Pro five 50. Even for obedience, I just like longer antenna, consistent. The battery life seems better, just overall a better transmitter receiver pair. So I think we've beat up the Garmin. Um. At least the ones we use. Let's go ahead and move over to Sport Dog. Um, I'm gonna talk about three brands here. Um, sport Dog, Garmin and Dog Truck. These are the one, these are the ones I've used and I have experience with. And in this, um, podcast, I'm just talking about stuff I know. So, um, sport Dog is also a good caller. Um, it's a little. Um, a little, I would say it's not as straightforward to use. They have a ton of settings that you can set the transmitter to, to work with your dog. Most of the time I'm using the UM, sport Dog 1825. They also have the 1825 Wetland Hunter, which is basically just camo, but I think that one's a threequarter mile range. I have also the Pro 25, 25. Actually, I'm not sure they make that anymore. I thought they possibly discontinued it. I need to get on their website and check it out. But the Pro 25 25 is a big canister. It's kind of heavy. Um. A good battery life overall, a good transmitter receiver option. Um, the 1825 receiver and the Pro 25 25. They're the same receiver, the part that goes on the dog's neck. Just again, a different, um, transmitter. So, uh. Something a lot of people don't know is on the collar. Again, I'm should have one out in front of me. I'm just doing the shoot from the hip. I think it's a one through seven or one through nine is the dial, um, the thumb dial on the unit, um, on the pro 25 25, it's the dial on the top, but the collars have a low, medium, high setting in the collar. And so you, if you have a stubborn dog, you can. Go ahead and set the collar to high. If you have an average dog medium, and if you have a really sensitive dog, obviously you're gonna set it on low, so it does have some play in the electricity level. So you do have, I think, 21 levels, but you have to set the collar to the level you want. And it's kind of weird. You turn it on, there's non button on the receiver, the part on the dog's neck. You turn it on and you immediately let off and then hold it in again. And it's gonna start a beeping sequence, gonna one beep for low, two beeps for medium, three beeps for high. And after those beeps when you let off, that's what it's gonna set your eco two. So. You can use that accordingly to how your dog responds. Um, now the sport dog does have a higher electricity level than the Pro five 50. So if you have a really stubborn dog that's not sensitive to eco pressure, then go with the sport dog. You're gonna have to set your collar to a high and run that higher level. And I have not seen many dogs be able to work through. That electricity level, if you have good batteries on both of 'em and you have a stubborn dog that's gonna generally get under the dog's skin enough. So again, if you have a really stubborn dog, sport dog, go with that one. Um, and I would play with that, I think the 1225 as I think the. The half mile range, the 1825 is the threequarter mile range. I would stay with at least the 1225 or higher. Um, the thing I have a little harder time with the sport dog is the connectivity. Sometimes getting a connection on the neck. It's like once you. Get those contact points in on the skin and you got it in the right spot and it's connected, you're gonna be set, you're gonna be good to go. Again, take those shorter contact points off, put the longer ones on, and to get through all that fur to get a good connection. Sometimes I'll grab the opposite side of the eco box too on the collar and just kind of wiggle it back and forth, and that's going to seed those contact points onto the skin a little bit better. And so, um, that's the only thing I've really seen with sport dog. I feel like with the Garmin, when I tighten it down and kinda wiggle into place, boom, it's like I just, that Pro five 50, I just got a connection. It's just easy to use. Consistent sport dog. I kind of gotta wiggle it more. I test it a little more and then it's like, oh, there it is. And now it's connected. So it's just kind of interesting the way it has seeds on the dog's neck. The shape of it looks like good seed really well. But, um, anyhow, that's just what I've seen. So I, everything's waterproof on the transmitter and the receiver. I'm not sure if the transmitter floats. It may, I haven't tried it to see if it would float. Um, it is smaller. In your hands. So that could be a, uh, a pro if you like that. Just a smaller unit. Um, sometimes people don't like the Pro five 50, the transmitter in their hand. 'cause this is, it's a canister shape and they feel like it's too big. I'm used to it, so I'm comfortable with it. It doesn't bother me. Just put it in my pocket. You can get lanyards, put 'em on, stuff like that. So, but if you want a smaller handheld unit, you could look at the sport dog. Um. It does not have a built-in, BART collar does not have lights on it. Um, but it does have all your other workhorse, um, things like stimulation, you know, your electricity vibration and tone. Now with the ecos, I'm gonna put this little caveat in there. You do not wanna leave your eco on your dog. Really more than 24 hours. So with the Garmin Pro five 50 with the built-in BART collar, some people, I've seen them over the years, use the BART collar mode 'cause they got a yapper at home. They put it on the dog and they just leave it there all day, the next day, all day. And then they take it off and they freak out. 'cause it looks like their neck, their dog has sores on the neck. Um, where. The metal sitting on the dog's neck over time will start to cause an irritation and it looks like they got bit by a rattlesnake or something. There's like two holes on their neck and. It'll say in the, in the instructions, don't leave your dog. Don't leave this in the same place on the dog's neck. You know, I think it's more than 12 hours or 24 hours anyways. You just don't wanna leave in the same spot. You have to make sure you rotate it or take it off. I've personally never seen an issue as long as you use it during training. And it's on the dog for, even if it's on the dog for a half day or whatever it may be, you pull it off at night when the dog's sleeping or if you have a yap or you put it on during the night, take it off during the day. I. You shouldn't have any of those, of those, um, those issues. It's just people that leave em day in and day out on the animal. So be aware of that. All right. Third caller we're gonna talk about is dtra. I used Dora for years, very beginning stages of training. I used dtra. Um, overall they were a good caller. I felt like there was a lot of consistency to 'em. The, the. I use the NCP. Uh oh. It just, just lost it. NCP stands for Nick Constant. Um, um, I'm dropping it this morning. It'll come back to me anyways, with dogs or collars, things that they have. A little LCD screen I think goes up to one to 127. Uh, there's a little zero stat dial on the top. You can dial it and that's going to allow you to really, that has that much more fine tuning. Um, you know, zero to 127, I believe is what it is. Again, it's been some years since I've used them, but. Did, like you could fine tune that on average dogs you're running around a 18 or something. Um, if I remember, a lower, lower spectrum like most dogs usually need, but it did deliver a decent, higher level range. Um, for what I can remember when I used them more, the issues I was having with my dog, tra is back then a lot of 'em used a nickel battery. They may still do that. And the nickel battery supposedly lasts longer and has a longer battery life. But, um, but for me, when I was using 'em every day and charging them, I. I would, on average, get about six months of battery life, and the batteries were toast, and so I'd have to send 'em in, get 'em replaced, and it was just a pain to deal with that when I was in the middle hunt test season or whatever, and all of a sudden my collar just took a tank. And so I'd have to buy a new one and, uh, either buy a new one or send it in to them to get it replaced. Um, and that was just a pain. I just had battery issues and I just didn't like that. It was just, it was inconvenient. Right. So, um, also the other things I did not like were the LCD screen. When I'm hunting really cold temperatures that LCD screen will kind of gel, and so it would, uh, you like, turn your dial and you couldn't really, it would just like. It looked frozen and blurred, you know, so I didn't like that aspect of it. Um, I think they have one called the dog truck edge, if I'm not mistaken. And on the edge it does not have a zero, it's more of a Pro five 50 look, but it does not have like a zero stat dial. So that one maybe could be one. If you're looking at dog truck, it could be one. You could, um. Look into a little more. The next thing I did not like about my dog truck or besides batteries, is when the dog was in the water and you were using the eco to reinforce training, the collar would not work. And so if you look at contact points on the receiver of a shot collar, they're, they usually have a plastic. That covers the contact points up to the very tip, and then only the tip is an exposed, uh, steel, um, or metal. I think it's stainless steel. And what that happens is the con conductivity in the water. It doesn't allow, if you have that plastic over it and then those tips are pressed onto the skin, it's still gonna deliver electricity in the water. Dog truck just had full on still contact points that would come with the collar. So it worked fine on land, but as soon as you put that collar in the water, it would short out, it would stop working. I tried. I didn't, I was like, what the heck is this thing not working? So I'd hold it and I'd actually shock myself. And I'd submerge it in water and boom, it would stop working. And so I called them up, Hey, what's, you know, this is an issue I'm having. And they said, oh, we can send out some waterproof contact points. And so they would just send out waterproof contact points. Um, I. You'd have to get those and like ask for 'em, which is stupid, I thought. Um, they should just send 'em out with the eco. So if people play with their dog in the water, it's already set, ready to go. Now hopefully they've made a change. I haven't used dog tri and bought one for a while. Hopefully they've made that change. If they haven't, make sure you get yourself some waterproof contact points and you're gonna be able actually reinforce the training while your dog's in the marsh while you're out duck hunting, which is just dumb that. They wouldn't have done that in the beginning, but I get it. Companies, they grow. They learn as they grow. And so hopefully someone's with Dog Tri is listening to this podcast. They make sure that change happens. So, um, something on the batteries, and the reason I went from dog trip back in the day to Tris is they would run a lithium battery. And the lithium battery, according to my understanding, it's like a drill battery. You charge it when the battery was charged. It would actually turn off and stop charging. And so it just would save the battery life. And I'd get a lot, a lot longer battery life out of these, uh, out of my TROs and my Garmin just because of that reason. So I like the charging system more where the other one is like you charge it, but you wouldn't really know if it was charged. It would just like. It would just kind of, you know, it would just kind of keep charging and you're like, is it charged? Is it not charged? So I'm sure they've probably changed that. I mean, I've been doing this for 17 years and this is, you know, 10 plus over 10 years ago, so I'll have to look at it a little closer and see. But, um, overall, not a bad caller. I would say, you know, Garmin Sport dog and. Uh, dog tour are gonna be your top three. If you get 'em, you're probably gonna be able to get the job done with them. Just, uh, I do like the little add-ons and the consistency of the Pro five 50, so that's what we use is our workhorse around here at our training facility. And so if that's of interest to you, you know, there you go. Uh, trying to think if there's anything else that I've missed out on Ecos. Um, oh, I wanna talk about this batteries. So when you're, sorry, I have a little cough drop in my mouth. If you're hearing that Batteries, you need to, if your battery goes out and, and it will at some point, the battery will die on your transmitter or your receiver. Your collar is generally still good, even if it's sat for years. I have people like, I need to get a new eco system. I think mine's just done, you know, but 90% of the time it's just a battery that's gone bad and most of 'em that you can get a little screw screwdriver, unscrew 'em. Order the batteries online. You can check out Amazon. You can go directly to the website. Just say you need a replacement battery for ladi da whatever You have, transmitter receiver. They'll send you out a new battery. Go ahead and pop it in. There's usually a gasket or a seal to keep it waterproof. And just be careful to make sure you put that back in place when you do that. And, um, and you'll be off to the races. It's coming back to me a little bit. I think dogs are, had a little different seal on theirs, which they wanted you to send it back into 'em, and that's why it was kind of a pain. It was kind of a, a glute or a glued or a taped seal. So when you disrupt that seal, um. It was a little harder put back together, but maybe not. I remember the GA that has a little rubber gasket, but it seemed like they wanted you to send it in back in the day. Maybe that's changed, but if your collar sits for a while or you find an old collar, try replacing batteries first. See if it works. Check the antenna distance, see, make sure it's relaying the signal and you're gonna be off to the races. So don't give up on it. If your antenna's actually shorting out, you're having those issues. Yes, you need to fix something on the eco. So, um, anyhow, that's, uh, that's my spiel on the ecos. Um, there's one other one I would talk about that I don't have it. I have used. But it's called Eco technologies. Um, it's kind of a round unit, looks like a donut, I guess you could say. I personally don't like the shape of it a whole lot, just the look of it. But supposedly it delivers like more of a flatter electricity. I. Whatever that exactly means. It's not as sharp and they like, and some people like it for, um, you know, their pet dog. So you can look into that one if you'd like. I haven't heard necessarily bad things about it. I think is the decent collar probably would work. Um, main things you're looking for an eco is you're looking for tone, you're looking for vibrate and you're looking for, um. And to, and vibrate constant electricity and the ability to just do a nick, just a nick electricity. So, um, most your higher end ecos are gonna have those. Now let's talk about cheap ecos. I do want to talk about that. These days we all shop on Amazon. And Amazon, you get on there and there's ecos for like $40 or $50 or whatever it may be. And they seem to have good reviews. Yeah. Those things most of the time are junk. I would not, if you're a serious dog hunting enthusiast, don't get one of those cheapy callers. You're gonna deal with battery life issues. You're gonna deal with just the thing falling apart. They're 40 bucks for a reason. They're cheap. And if you want something to last for years, do not Splt, do not go cheap on a eco. The eco is a great tool if used correctly, and it's precise and it's consistent. If you're dealing with inconsistencies in a eco, you might as well just throw it away. Excuse me, in my cough. You're gonna do more harm and damage to your dog by inconsistencies. It's just like if you were walking down the road and all of a sudden you're just, your dog's walking a heel and you're jerking on the heel rope, and the dog's like, why are you jerking on the heel rope? Or you're, or you mean just give him a little tug and you hit him way hard and you jerk him. He's just like, what is going on here? You know, e-commerce are no different. It's a training tool, but it has to be consistent. Has to be precise to build confidence in your dog. Anytime you're dealing with inconsistency, not preciseness, you're gonna confuse your dog and stress your dog out, you're gonna cause issues. So that would be my words of advice is do not go cheap on the eco. Avoid, if you're paying less than 150 bucks for an eco, you're cheap. That's, it's cheap. You should be in the 200. Up range, you know, maybe upper one eighties, up one eighties to $400 in that range. Generally, if you're buying a collar for that much, you're gonna be, you're gonna, they're gonna have some more reliability, more consistency with the eco, so. Anyhow, uh, hope you guys enjoyed the show. Hopefully that helped you out. If you're wondering about ecos, there's a lot of options. You go to the store and you're like, whoa, there's a lot of these. There's also dt, which I've used a little bit, not a lot. I, so I can't really give my opinion on that one, but you know, what my opinion is and what we use. And so I'm just going off what I've seen over training dogs for so long, and hopefully this helps you guys out. And remember when you train your dog train for with the end goal in sight training dogs is trying, you get, trying to get from point A, which is your puppy starting out to point Z, which is hunting your dog on a phenomenal duck hunt or upland hunt, whatever you're trying to do there. And there's that from point A. To the end, you know, you're trying to, you know, complete that process. So the training is that daily incremental training that's, uh, gonna get you to that phenomenal hunting dog in the future. So follow a really good. Proven program, something like that. Or have a good mentor that's gonna help you and listen to podcasts like this and, um, and, you know, digest as much information as possible that will help you be a good, better dog trainer as you get those little tidbits and snippets that'll help you out. I, I would recommend being a little. You can waste a lot of time though, looking at a lot of different programs. Um, here in the future, we're gonna have a program called the Bird Dog Blueprint, which is basically, uh, a training program where I've trained a, a pointer and a retriever, and I. Taking that dog from a puppy all the way up to their first real hunts and, and taking along for the, the ride and the whole process. It's more of a long form video, so it can take some time, but it's gonna come out here hopefully in the next month or two. Um. And, uh, we'll offer that for you guys and so look forward to that. It's gonna be pretty cool. So, um, anyhow, yeah. So what I was getting to is follow a program. You can spend a lot of time looking here, looking there, getting YouTube videos, and you're just gonna waste time. So if you have a proven program that someone has a book or a video, I would watch that and follow that until the end, and you should be successful. So. Uh, again, train with the end goal in mind and, and hopefully you've been hunting so you kinda know how you're gonna hunt, what you're gonna do during the hunt, what you need your dog to do, what you're gonna, and you want to train for those things. So, uh, hope you guys have a great day. Hope you enjoyed the podcast. Thanks for hanging in there with my voice with this, uh, scruffy voice being sick. Hopefully we'll continue to get better and we'll see you in the next show.