(EP. 44) Canada Goose Hunting Tips and Words of Wisdom from Mike Cornu

In this episode I am just finishing up a field goose hunt with Mike Cornu.  Mike is one of the biggest bird hunters that I know and has tons of hunting wisdom to share. If you want some nuggets on finding places to hunt and how to hunt waterfowl, Mike shares some a bunch with the audience. At 72 he is still crushing it and as passionate as anyone that I know. Hope you guys enjoy this episode with Mike. 

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Thanks for listening everyone and good hunting!

Transcript

Tyce 0:49

Hey folks. Welcome to the Bird Dog Podcast. My name is Ty Erickson. I'll be your host of the show today, and today I got my good friend Mike on the podcast, and we're just finishing up a goose hunt that he invited me on and we absolutely just smashed him. Mike put us right on the X and and shot a two man limit. Limit and we were. In and out in about 20 minutes or so. So, um, which is fun'cause the birds still came back into the field and, and so hopefully Mike can get on'em again here and, uh, in the near future and still, uh, get some good, good hunts out of it. So Mike, thanks for coming on the podcast.

Mike 1:40

Yep. Yeah, thanks for inviting me. It was a good hunt today.

Tyce 1:43

Oh, thanks for having me. So, all right. Tell the audience a little bit about Mike.

Mike 1:48

Let's see. So I, I moved to, uh, I moved to Park City, Utah as a ski bum at 19.

Tyce 1:58

Okay.

Mike 1:58

So that was, um, like 50 years ago. And then. Ended up doing a couple businesses.

Tyce 2:07

Where did you move from?

Mike 2:08

I moved from, uh, Eastern us, uh, Eastern from actually Delaware. I went to

Tyce 2:12

Okay.

Mike 2:13

University of Delaware. And, but then I needed a break from school. I ended up, um, coming out to Park City, the quintessential ski bomb. Um, always. Fished, uh, was a big fly fisherman and bird hunter. I grew up bird hunting.

Tyce 2:32

Did your, so your dad took you

Mike 2:34

out bird hunting? Yep. My dad was a big influence on that. Um, but during that era, I think, did

Tyce 2:40

your grandpa hunt too? It was

Mike 2:41

my grandpa hunted passed

Tyce 2:42

down

Mike 2:43

both sides. Yes. I've got hand me down guns, so it's been in our family. Um, heritage and

Tyce 2:50

was your dad a a big game and a bird hunter, or just more bird hunter?

Mike 2:54

Just bird hunting. And we were, were from Canada originally, so that was, um, uh, grouse and Brittany Spaniels. Okay. And. And wood and some woodcock. So that was his background. We moved around quite a little bit and then I ended up coming out to Park City. Like I said, I didn't hunt much for a number of years. Then I eventually finished school. I opened a couple businesses. Landscape design, build landscape architecture, and it was a good place to be. And, and through the years, then I got back into the, raised a family and then got back into, uh, bird hunting, pretty hardcore, you know, at that point, working, making, maybe making three day weekend trips.

Tyce 3:44

Folks, he's not pretty. Mike is about as hardcore as he gets. So you're being humble about your, uh, well hunting, his hunting expertise. This guy, I have a lot of clients and Mike is top tier and on killing birds and killing stuff. So any wisdom or nuggets he shares. Today. It's not just from, I think this is how he, he knows how to, he knows how to get it done so

Mike 4:09

well. That's, that's nice to say. And, um, the facts are there man. There's, there's something in my DNAI guess, and then I have a very supportive wife, which is what we all need. Then I've retired about five years ago, six years ago, so now it's, um, I spent a, I spent a lot of time on the road from Canada. To Texas, to Maryland, um, and points in between for mostly field ducks and geese, green heads, uh, Canada Geese, I don't really get after snow Geese. Um, huge passion for that. And then roosters, pheasants, uh, grouse, and then always go, um, dove hunting on an opening day. Just, you know, September 1st. And then in the last 20 years I've really gotten into spring turkeys, which the only thing that's not perfect about spring turkeys is I don't use a dog. Dog. Yeah. I really miss. Having a dog.

Tyce 5:12

So tell, tell us about, it's always fun to hear. Tell us about your dogs growing up. Did you have dogs? Not have dogs? I know you mentioned some spaniels. Yep. Was that when you were a little kid, your dad had'em and you guys hunted with them?

Mike 5:23

We did a little, but then we, the, the job that my father had the career, we moved around a lot from Canada to the Eastern seaboard, to Europe, to San Francisco. So a, I ended up picking up my first field dog in college. And, um, it was actually a, a golden retriever.

Tyce 5:45

Okay.

Mike 5:46

And, uh, named Woody. And he was just,

Tyce 5:49

what's his name?

Mike 5:49

Woody.

Tyce 5:50

Okay.

Mike 5:51

But he had a great nose and, uh, and so I was, you know, I always thought I was an okay dog guy. Um, so training and then obedience. Yeah. Um,

Tyce 6:04

did you how waterfowl end Upland,

Mike 6:06

yes. With

Tyce 6:06

that dog?

Mike 6:07

Yeah. Okay. But, but we really did well, he did really well in upland and pheasants and back then Eastern Utah was just loaded. Utah, Northern Utah, eastern, you know, it was loaded with pheasants.

Tyce 6:20

Mm-hmm.

Mike 6:21

And, and quail, but it's not like it used to be. So that was a, that was a good run.

Tyce 6:27

So, so you had. You had a, what was it, you said a Brittany's what? French Britney's or, or American Britney's. Spear.

Mike 6:35

American Britney's.

Tyce 6:36

And those were good. You had'em, they were trained pretty good or not, did you say?

Mike 6:39

Oh, they were trained really well, but that was more when my father was, uh, a young man.

Tyce 6:44

Okay.

Mike 6:44

Um,

Tyce 6:45

and your first real hunting dog for yourself was a golden retriever?

Mike 6:49

Yep. Okay.

Tyce 6:50

Yep.

Mike 6:50

And then after that dog, let's see what I got. I finished school. They came back to Park City and. And then, let's see, he had to put him down.

Tyce 7:02

How long ago was that that he had Woody?

Mike 7:04

My gosh. Uh, it would've been like till 82. 83.

Tyce 7:13

Okay. I.

Mike 7:14

And then I might've gone a year without a dog, and then I got into Black Labs, and then I started really researching pointing Labs.

Tyce 7:24

Okay.

Mike 7:24

Which,

Tyce 7:25

because you wanted the versatility of

Mike 7:27

obviously

Tyce 7:27

Olin and Waterfowl and,

Mike 7:29

and I, I was looking for the switch off. Switch on.

Tyce 7:32

Mm-hmm.

Mike 7:34

And because the dog, 95% of his life is a. Part of our family.

Tyce 7:38

Mm-hmm.

Mike 7:39

Um, my wife loves dogs. We've always had a dog and so I was looking for that. And then the versatility of a field,

Tyce 7:47

so is Co Cobbs Mike's current dog that I was able to help him out with training on that. Did, did you have anything between Woody and Cobb? Or is that,

Mike 7:56

I had

Tyce 7:56

Cobb,

Mike 7:56

I had one, I had probably four or five labs.

Tyce 8:00

Okay. Tell me about them.

Mike 8:03

Um,

Tyce 8:04

did they turn into much? Not much.

Mike 8:06

No. They were

Tyce 8:07

always full lives. Did you lose'em some early They

Mike 8:09

were, they were, they were good functional dogs. Um, some better than others. One ended up having of all things Crohn's disease.

Tyce 8:20

Huh.

Mike 8:20

That I just couldn't figure out. And so I ended up giving him away to a vet tech.

Tyce 8:25

What were the symptoms

Mike 8:26

that was Nova

Tyce 8:26

symptoms on that

Mike 8:27

Just had to take a poop every two hours. Round the God the poor dog had diarrhea and went through everything. So

Tyce 8:36

yeah, Crohn's is the, I was trying That's the digestive.

Mike 8:38

Yes.

Tyce 8:39

Like almost irritable, irritable bowel syndrome type stuff.

Mike 8:42

Yeah, it was tough. It was tough. He was a good dog. So, um, I've been getting Jake

Tyce 8:48

Nova. Who else?

Mike 8:50

Oh gosh. Um,

Tyce 8:51

take on the spot,

Mike 8:52

right? I know.

Tyce 8:53

Yeah. The one you said was a really good tracking dog for Uphill.

Mike 8:56

That was, uh, Woody, the golden retriever. I lost

Tyce 8:58

the golden.

Mike 8:59

Okay. The, the joke I would say if, if there was a a, a, a rooster, a grouse, any bird, particularly a rooster on the ground, you could just sit on a stump and wait. And it might be 10 minutes, it might be 20 minutes, but he would come back with a bird

Tyce 9:13

if you had a cripple.

Mike 9:14

Yep. It was a cripple. It was uncanny. But let's see, it went, uh, nova, then shed and um, and then Henry.

Tyce 9:24

It's always fun hearing the different names.

Mike 9:26

Right. And then currently it's. Cobb and the All Birds, or all dogs rather, came outta the same kennel.

Tyce 9:33

Okay.

Mike 9:33

Out of Wyoming. And

Tyce 9:35

what was the name of that kennel that

Mike 9:37

you Um, stealth point.

Tyce 9:38

Stealth point. Okay. Bo, right.

Mike 9:40

Bo Bo Allen. Right.

Tyce 9:41

Okay.

Mike 9:42

And. And so he, he was working on the,

Tyce 9:48

he did some pointing work for

Mike 9:50

pointing lab. Yes. He was developing the pointing lab.

Tyce 9:53

Yeah.

Mike 9:54

Um,

Tyce 9:54

I've done hunt tests with Bo and know him pretty well.

Mike 9:57

Yeah, he's a good

Tyce 9:57

guy. He's a good guy. Yeah.

Mike 9:58

Really good guy. And, and he was a firm believer of the switch on, switch off. Bred, he bred his dogs accordingly.

Tyce 10:06

Didn't he breed and run short hairs too? A little

Mike 10:08

bit? Yes, he did. Yeah, I think he did.

Tyce 10:10

Yeah.

Mike 10:10

But, uh, we were, we've always been, we've been black lab people for God for the last like 45 years, right? Yeah. 40 Classic. And then, uh, so my, yeah, the current one is cop. And then I have, you've helped me with the last two dogs, Henry and Cobb. And

Tyce 10:30

did I work, he, Henry, why am I drawing a blank on that dog?

Mike 10:33

Henry was a little short. Um, you, we got, we were doing some work on him, but he was probably five at the time. I think I was already starting to think of a new, uh, of a dog and I'd reached out to you and I was drawn to you by I, people I talked to, and then also with the pointing,

Tyce 10:54

pointing lab,

Mike 10:55

pointing lab thing. And we, I think we spent a year or two more talking and

Tyce 11:00

Yeah.

Mike 11:01

Oh, and I, you know, Hey, I'm gonna be looking for a dog in the next couple years.

Tyce 11:05

Mm-hmm.

Mike 11:06

Um, I think that's how we got to meet. I think you. We did some work for Henry, but Henry was one of those dogs that he was good and he was really good in the fe. Um, on Upland, um, couple buddies. I don't hunt with that many people. I hunt solo a lot.

Tyce 11:23

Yeah.

Mike 11:24

Um, but a couple of a two, A guy and his brother would nicknamed Henry the professor, like if he got birdie and he was on a bird. They, and he wasn't fast, but he was methodical. Yeah. And he pointed half, you know, he pointed a number of birds, but he was really good at Upland, had a great nose, but he was a short, he was like a 55 pound lab.

Tyce 11:46

Mm-hmm.

Mike 11:47

And he struggled on, uh, Canadas

Tyce 11:50

geese. Yeah.

Mike 11:51

Um, but mallards and roosters. And he had a great prey drive and he was a good. Um, it was a great family dog except I, he would eat any bit of food. He was a, like a, a counter, uh,

Tyce 12:07

counter surfer.

Mike 12:08

Yeah, counter surfer if you turned your eyes, or the other thing he would do is if you turned his back, you turned your back on him. He would take off. We live, um, on the Weber River. We live in a kind of a rural 10 acre small ranch thing, and he always knew where every dead deer was. We'd find him chewing, go

Tyce 12:26

rolling it or chewing it

Mike 12:27

or, yeah, and, yeah, exactly.

Tyce 12:28

Okay, so I want to, I want to unpack a couple things. So first in my life, I remember like the first duck I shot and I remember it like just. Was burned into my memory. Right? Like the first thing I saw, like I was like, wow, that was ama, that was amazing. Kind of got me hooked. Was there a time that you can think, like your first, I know it's probably a while ago, first bird or first pheasant, or first duck or something, or first goose that it like kind of burned into your mind, like that was kind of special.

Mike 12:59

I remember the first bird and it was a pheasant hunt. We were living in California growing up, I think, I guess I was 12 and we went with, uh, my father's friend and his son, and they had Brittany's.

Tyce 13:13

Okay.

Mike 13:13

And. I remember the story, got more father likes to tell it, but on the walk back we maybe had seen a few birds and then I just decided to take a different angle back to the truck.

Tyce 13:26

Mm-hmm.

Mike 13:26

Along a ditch bank along the edge of a cornfield and a rooster got up and I had, I was given a, uh, single shot.

Tyce 13:35

Single shot.

Mike 13:36

Um. Ithaca, 12 gauge.

Tyce 13:38

Okay.

Mike 13:40

It was one of those shotguns that, I think it was either a savage or, I can't remember, I still have it. A brake. Just a brake single spot.

Tyce 13:46

Yeah.

Mike 13:46

A brake that you could also put a 30, 30 barrel on.

Tyce 13:50

Oh, okay. Huh.

Mike 13:50

So you could, you could substitute. That was my.

Tyce 13:53

Yeah,

Mike 13:54

my first gun and I shot that pheasant and it was the, my father was, they weren't really paying attention, you know? It was like walking back to the truck.

Tyce 14:03

Yeah.

Mike 14:03

And it was like one of those, holy crap, what was that?

Tyce 14:06

Yeah, yeah.

Mike 14:07

And I went and picked it up and. And, uh, there's a picture on my wall of me holding that bird.

Tyce 14:12

That's cool.

Mike 14:13

So just like you said, etched

Tyce 14:16

in in

Mike 14:16

our

Tyce 14:16

brain. In your brain forever. Yeah. It's like I, when I talked to guys, I know it was for me. I remember the first time I shot it some greenhead. I don't even think I missed them, but it, I think it's such an adrenaline rush or it's, or it's so exciting or something that it, or when you pick up that bird and you're examining the feathers, you're like, wow. This is special, you know? Right,

Mike 14:35

right.

Tyce 14:35

And they are still amazing. The, like, I still look at'em sometimes if I slow down and I actually look at the details and

Mike 14:41

Yep.

Tyce 14:41

You know, I'm like, these are amazing at birds, you know, it's the different colors and patterns and stuff like that. So.

Mike 14:48

Absolutely. I have a lot of respect for what we're pursuing.

Tyce 14:53

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike 14:53

And I guess to that point, why, you know, you, I'm, as you say, I'm way into it. You know what I love almost more than anything is scouting. Okay. Figuring'em out. Um, trying to find the ex, uh, like today's hunt that went so well. I'd found those birds. When was it on Tuesday?

Tyce 15:13

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike 15:14

So today's Thursday on Tuesday. Then we decided to try to get a hunt together Thursday morning for, because we both had things going on yesterday.

Tyce 15:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike 15:23

And then there's a farmer, one of the, the farmer's wife lives across the street from the,

Tyce 15:29

she keep an eye on'em

Mike 15:29

for you too. She, uh, she confirmed they came back. It was in a triticale field, so it's late season Canada's. A few lessers, but mostly, um, you know, graders.

Tyce 15:40

Yeah.

Mike 15:41

And it was a field of 250 or 300. And, um, so she confirmed that we got out there. I knew they were flying around 8:00 AM

Tyce 15:51

mm-hmm.

Mike 15:51

8, 8 0 5. At least they did on Tuesday.

Tyce 15:54

Yep.

Mike 15:55

And so what I'm, I just love f figuring'em out. And that's with pheasants. You know, the golden hour with pheasants when they're all on the move for feeding and on their way to roost.

Tyce 16:06

Yeah.

Mike 16:06

Between three and four 30. And then conversely in the morning.

Tyce 16:10

Yeah.

Mike 16:10

Um, turkeys where they roost. Um, pheasants, I get back to pheasants. You know, they make, they're always moving. They're always looking and they've got a starting point at an ending point. They're roost sites.

Tyce 16:21

Yeah.

Mike 16:22

Um, same with turkeys, ducks and geese. Um, they're gonna roost in a pond along the river. You know, and if you find one of those, I covet those. Yeah. Don't tell a soul, don't touch them. Never hunt a roost

Tyce 16:36

Well,

Mike 16:36

because, and then you hunt the feeding fields around the roost.

Tyce 16:40

Yeah.

Mike 16:40

And, and

Tyce 16:41

that's how, I mean, today, the birds, I mean, me maybe had one circle, but the rest is, they come right. One loop and straight decoy. I mean, everything would've landed if we would've let'em. The first group, they came in so fast. They did land, and then we shot, started getting, getting after'em. But the other ones, I mean, their feet were down and, and what, 20 yards out? 25 yards out.

Mike 17:05

Just like tv. Just like, just

17:07

like,

Tyce 17:07

yeah.

Mike 17:08

No, it was a good hunt. But there was, but I guess the point we're making is. Scouting. Yeah. Confirming They're still there. Don't boo'em.

Tyce 17:15

Yeah.

Mike 17:15

Um, and I've hunted these fields since the middle eighties, so we're talking 40. I've known the Yeah. The farmer forever. And he's, he's been really good to me and. And so what we did is we shot our limit, like you said, in 20 minutes. Picked up as quick as possible, threw everything in the truck

Tyce 17:35

Yep.

Mike 17:36

And got the hell out out of the field and watched the birds continue to fill in. So it's like, I, I, I always like to hunt that way. Don't burn a field out. Don't blow it up. Get out. And, um, you know, if they want to be there and they're not harassed, they'll come back. I

Tyce 17:54

think that's a, yeah, a tip for the audience is like, and that's, I've kind of learned from Mike A. Little more is just, you know, if you're trying to milk the field like you've talked about doing, don't sit there and shoot and you know, hang out and let the birds come and get scared. You get in there and you. You're good at this. You don't hunt with a lot of guys, maybe one, maybe two guys. Yep. Or yourself a lot of times. So there's not a lot of impact on the birds. You shoot'em, you get out quick, and the birds, the rest of the group doesn't even know what happened, and they keep coming and coming and coming and you can have a bunch of little hunts like that,

Mike 18:30

right?

Tyce 18:30

Instead of one big slam'em all, and then they're done.

Mike 18:33

Then they've moved on

Tyce 18:34

to other fields, moved on to other stuff, right?

Mike 18:36

So we're down to the last. Two weeks of the season.

Tyce 18:39

Yeah.

Mike 18:39

No. What are we now? Thursday? No, the last 10 days. Yeah, so it's over next on the 31st, the next Saturday. And so these are late season birds. I think there are a few new birds in the area. Um, because there were some lessers. But like we were talking, there's 200, I'd say two 50 to 300. They were, they were working this field.

Tyce 19:00

Yeah.

Mike 19:00

And what, so late season I've been doing, I've been playing around with this. We only put out 18 full body decoys.

Tyce 19:07

Yeah.

Mike 19:08

It wasn't a big, huge spread because we were on the X and it was an edge hunt. So that was the other thing that was. Interesting is, um, the one thing we can control is our hide, right?

Tyce 19:21

Yep.

Mike 19:22

So we're on the edge, grab some kosher, which is the best material ever to hide. We

Tyce 19:28

just, it's kind of that tumbleweed looking bush if people don't know what kosher is, but it's awesome. Yeah. Bla just breaks everything

Mike 19:36

up. So, and it stiff. And it holds together and you create a, a, a weed patch right on the edge of the field and you're matching what's already there.

Tyce 19:44

Yeah.

Mike 19:44

And, and then we had Cobb with us, so he's in his, uh, blind.

Tyce 19:50

Yeah.

Mike 19:51

You know, he does really well of just kennel waiting there and then wait until, um, we say, I say. Um, cop call his name. Yeah.'cause they're not blinds and he retrieved 10 geese pretty quick for us.

Tyce 20:05

Locked him up. So tell me, so I'm always curious, like when people set up decoys, how, what they're thinking on the setup, you know, the direction, the decoys, you know, how, what you're think, tell me your thought process on decoys.'cause that's always, obviously you've hunted a lot of stuff over decoys and fields and what, what your, what you like your layout to look like.

Mike 20:26

Well,

Tyce 20:26

honestly, the way you set it up isn't a way I would've thought to set it up.

Mike 20:29

Oh, interesting.

Tyce 20:30

You kind of saw how I put it out. I mean, I didn't throw it out exactly in detail. I kind of put like a v and a landing zone. Mm-hmm. Kind of coming in from the side and, but you put more like a, a line with kind of a landing zone in the center of the line.

Mike 20:45

Yeah, and it's, again, it was an edge hunt. So, you know, we, if there was snow, we'd be in the middle of the field Sure. Where, where they had been, but. We need to get, we needed to get'em to the edge. Um, no snow, just a winter wheat field. No place to hide. So, you know, so I, the

Tyce 21:03

last they were kind of almost parallel. I mean, there were 20 yards out, but they were kind of in a line, if you know what I'm saying. But they were kind of parallel to the, the edge we were hunting,

Mike 21:13

right? So we sense, I felt we need to get'em in close and have hunted these fields before where. Th if, if they're not harassed, they'll come to the edge and come and decoy just like we saw this morning. Perfectly. Yeah. But with that being said, I've, so, let's see. I focus on,

Tyce 21:30

talk about how you face'em, right? Like your thought, like the, like we were talking earlier, like the feeders and the. The, the, the Gant, what do you, the sentinels I call'em, right? Whatever century.

Mike 21:40

Right.

Tyce 21:41

Um,

Mike 21:41

so I think just to people listening, the best is to find a field that have geese in it and sit there with binoculars and just watch'em. Okay. Just watch how, how they, and, and particularly as they land, if, if you see a group of six coming in to. Birds that are already in a field, how do they work? Do they circle once? Do they come straight in? They always land into the wind.

Tyce 22:06

Yep.

Mike 22:06

That's, that is absolutely the given. So we will set up with the wind at our back. Sometimes you can't do that. At the very least, it's gonna be a side wind.

Tyce 22:16

Yeah.

Mike 22:17

So you sideswipe'em, but they'll always land into the wind. Um, the challenge is if there's no wind, then. They can land anyway and they can come in from behind and, but a little bit of wind, as we all know, is, is optimum. So we had, which

Tyce 22:31

we had perfect,

Mike 22:32

we had like a five to 10 mile an hour wind. It was from the south, southwest.

Tyce 22:37

Yeah.

Mike 22:37

And we fa we were facing east, northeast, so it was a good hide. Um, and I typically put, I think about family groups of like four to six.

Tyce 22:50

Okay.

Mike 22:50

Four to seven. And then I'll always have one century looking over. It'd be like the gander that's looking over, um, his family.

Tyce 23:01

Yeah,

Mike 23:01

his family group. And then I will put a

Tyce 23:05

couple. Do you put him in the back? Do you put'em in the front? Does it matter? Do you feel

Mike 23:08

like he typically, I find that they're in the back, like

Tyce 23:10

in the landing area in the back.

Mike 23:12

Well, that's just a family group. So this morning we had, I had. They were coming from our left.

Tyce 23:18

Yeah.

Mike 23:19

So I put, oh, I don't know, 30% of the decoys on the left and 70% on the right because I wanted them to com. Com to join. Finish into the hole. Yes. Yeah. And then in the hole? No, the furthest decoy I put out was 30 yards.

Tyce 23:37

Yeah.

Mike 23:37

And I always pace my furthest decoy so I know, um, you know, the distance. Yeah. Yeah. Just for know that that's a, that's a pretty easy kill shot if they're decoy birds and then, and so then there's that, the gander that's kind of keeping an eye on his family. And then in this case, this morning, I think we had two. I like putting a couple of walkers. In the landing zone. So it's, it's looking like those two birds just landed into the hole. Mm-hmm. So they were probably at 15 yards.

Tyce 24:11

Yeah.

Mike 24:11

20. And then that group to the right. Just some feeders, some um, some different upright birds. Um,

Tyce 24:19

all right folks, we're driving here and we had to take a quick break. Mike had to get a phone call, but we're back here and we were talking about decoys and I think we're talking about, I dunno, I was thinking like landing zone and how the landing zone was what? Fif 15.

Mike 24:34

So we had a

Tyce 24:35

20 feet,

Mike 24:35

we had that family group of like six. Again, it was a super small spread. Yeah, it took like a minute and a half to set up. Yeah. And, and we brushed the blinds with the kosher of what we talked about, but

Tyce 24:46

yeah.

Mike 24:46

Yeah. I don't know. There was that family group of six to the left, and then I'm thinking with the wind, they're gonna sli we knew what direction that the roost was and where they're coming from. From our left.

Tyce 24:56

Yeah.

Mike 24:57

And then they'd swing around and then I wanted them to land right in front of us. And that was, yeah, you're right. 15, 20 yards.

Tyce 25:04

Perfect.

Mike 25:05

And, and then I had a pair that were in. Close. And then I had to the right, I had like another four or five that were walkers, like just to the edge of the landing zone. That proper that as if they had just landed and were upright walking to another six or seven, whatever, you know, a total 18 that, um, were, had, had some feeders with it. Mm-hmm. And it worked out.

Tyce 25:32

So is that. That setup is that, do you generally do that same one every, like you feel like you set that up every time? No. For the most part. Kind of that or

Mike 25:42

no?

Tyce 25:43

Or is it just

Mike 25:43

That was, that's because it was for, that was for an edge hunt.

Tyce 25:47

Yeah.

Mike 25:47

Um, let's just

Tyce 25:49

say, how do you do a middle of the field

Mike 25:51

hunt? Let's, okay. Let's say we're in a good corn field. You know, there's good cover. We've stuffed the blinds with corn. It's a windy day. Um, you definitely are reading the birds, but I'll oftentimes have decoys in back of me.

Tyce 26:04

Okay.

Mike 26:04

Because I want'em to, you know, they, they get finicky when it's super windy. Sometimes they want to be down.

Tyce 26:11

Do you like'em quicker? Looking like straight at you? Coming straight in on you. Do you try to do a pass shoot like where they're coming landing, right. Well looking not at you, but Right. But coming right in front

Mike 26:21

of you or

26:22

what

Mike 26:22

you like. Well, that's, sometimes that's a strategy for the, for a sides swipe for a wind. That way they're not looking, looking at your blind depend on eye and stuff like that. Right, right. Um, I like, and then oftentimes it's kind of tough, some of our, to get a middle, middle of the field hide, you know. It's not so much the blinds, but it's the shadow that the blinds will, will throw off on a clear day.

Tyce 26:45

Okay.

Mike 26:45

So I like putting some full bodies around the blinds just to break it up. Break it

Tyce 26:50

up,

Mike 26:50

yeah.

Tyce 26:51

Okay. And

Mike 26:51

then again, I'm always with a dog. Um, on an edge hunt I'll have the blind, but boy, if it's tight covered or a tight, you know, hide, I'll just have the dog on a mat right next to me. And he's, you know, with your help, I mean, we, we trained this dog. He's super steady.

Tyce 27:09

Yeah.

Mike 27:10

Um, but back to the decoys. I,

Tyce 27:12

from an aerial view, if you're looking at your decoys, let's say in the middle of a field hunt, how would that look?

Mike 27:17

Oh, well, probably a v out front of me.

Tyce 27:21

And you're kind of in the V at the top

Mike 27:22

or, and I'm at the base of the V I'm at where the V connects.

Tyce 27:26

Yeah.

Mike 27:26

And then, but I've really, the last. Know, number of years I've really gotten into family groups and, and not close together. So if you look at a relaxed, happy bunch of geese and a field feeding there, there, there's some space between them.

Tyce 27:43

You have a a pair here? Yeah. A four or six pack there, right? Kind of, yeah.

Mike 27:46

Right.

Tyce 27:47

Break a kind of leaves some landing areas around the factory,

Mike 27:49

and that's mostly for graders lessers. Are a different animal altogether. You know, they like the black hole. They're super safety with numbers.

Tyce 27:58

Hmm.

Mike 27:59

But I don't hunt that many lessers and I don't traffic birds. I mean traffic hunters, you know, they put a big black hole out and they're, they're, and they call. And just like this morning, I mean, I might have called once on a group that just needed to be coaxed to, you know, finish the turn.

Tyce 28:15

Yeah.

Mike 28:16

But

Tyce 28:17

besides that, it was silent, no flagging.

Mike 28:19

No flagging. We had one decoy that's got, it's a remote controlled battery flagger, and I did it a couple times, but we didn't need to.

Tyce 28:26

Oh, did you do it? Yeah. I didn't even see it. That one.

Mike 28:28

Yeah.

Tyce 28:28

Yeah.

Mike 28:29

But

Tyce 28:29

what, what about for ducks? Same. Same concept.

Mike 28:33

Same concept. Yeah. Mallards are, I think, are a little, you know, they're coming in so fast, the height isn't as paramount. Um, I've been using, because I, I travel a lot, like I can get everything I need in the back of a truck. I don't, I don't travel with a trailer.

Tyce 28:51

Mm-hmm.

Mike 28:51

So I can put locally, um, I can throw the full bodies in the back of this truck with a shell. When I go to Canada, I've got silhouettes.

Tyce 29:00

Do you only take silhouettes to Canada?

Mike 29:03

Because of space.

Tyce 29:04

How many do you usually hunt with?

Mike 29:06

I bring 10 dozen, and I don't know if I've ever put out more than five dozen. Honestly.

Tyce 29:11

As long as long. You just look main thing. You're hunting the X.

Mike 29:14

Yep.

Tyce 29:14

And if you're on the X silhouettes generally will do the

Mike 29:17

job. Yeah. The silhouettes are, they work great. They're fully f. Um,

Tyce 29:22

you turn those at a bunch of different angles.

Mike 29:23

Yes. The

Tyce 29:23

birds are coming in.

Mike 29:24

I get in the habit when I'm laying them out. Um, you just put'em at nine with silhouettes. I'm not so concerned about'em all feet, uh, facing into the wind. So you, every time you put a silhouette in, what I do is the next one is 90 degrees different. The next one I set out 90 degrees different. So, and then I, here's another thing I always do. After what I think I, I like what I, what I set up. I'll, I'll walk out 50 yards and look at the blinds and look at the layout of the decoys. And honestly, we've hunted a, a number of times together. I, we never had time, but. I think it's the first time we didn't move any decoys.

Tyce 30:06

Yeah.

Mike 30:06

You know, I'm not afraid to move decoys if sometimes birds wanna land on the very edge of your decoys.

Tyce 30:12

You watch the birds instead,

Mike 30:13

the first few

Tyce 30:13

groups are doing or something,

Mike 30:15

watch the first group and, and then, then I'd move those outside decoys in. Um, so I'm really dynamic that way. And or if the birds are, if it's a windy day and they're stopping short, they're landing at 40 yards, I'll put decoys in back of the blinds.

Tyce 30:31

Yeah.

Mike 30:31

To try to get'em to finish two and through, through the blinds so we can get a good kill shot. I mean, I don't, you know, every bird, every, every bird we shot was feet down. Backpedaling. So

Tyce 30:45

would you say probably one of the most important things is not paying attention to the wind with decoys and birds coming. Like, you know,'cause you can, guys will use mojo decoys or whatever, and if they're, that, I've noticed if those are turned the wrong direction, like with the wind it throws, birds are, you know, a side wind, it's just unnatural for the birds to come in that direction. So it seems like the wind, obviously your height is. Super important, but paying attention

Mike 31:13

well

Tyce 31:13

to how the dogs na or the birds naturally come into the wind is super important.

Mike 31:17

Yeah. I think it's super important. They always, when you put a motion decoy, a lucky duck or a mojo, you know, I use those for field mallards.

Tyce 31:25

Yeah.

Mike 31:26

Um, and I use different heights. And I never use more than three, and I've been using more and more. I just use, I have used the, um, motion decoys, I use Lucky Ducks. Um,

Tyce 31:39

so that opened up a question. How do you, how do you put your motion decoys out? Do you put'em together? Do you spread'em out? Do you do two in one? Always three together? Always. What do you. Is there one or you mix it up, or what

Mike 31:49

do you do? Well, if you watch Feeding Mallards, they hedge hop a lot and there's a lot of movement. They always, and it seems like they're trying to get in front of the leading edge,

Tyce 31:58

get the feed before the next group, next bird gets it.

Mike 32:00

And mallards are, and again, I just can't emphasize enough, you just watch

Tyce 32:06

birds,

Mike 32:06

just watch birds, um, in their natural habitat. Like

Tyce 32:09

so what you're saying is you probably spread'em out. Is that what you're saying?

Mike 32:13

Well, if you look at'em, there's, there's two or three, one

Tyce 32:15

and two or something.

Mike 32:16

Yeah. And I always think the hens go in first. I typically have the drapes,

Tyce 32:20

hens lead, the group

Mike 32:21

hens lead the group, but I don't think it makes any difference.

Tyce 32:25

Okay.

Mike 32:25

Um, but you know, for field hunting particularly big, huge fields. Um, I, they're really important to me. And then, you know, the base denominator of all, all we're talking about. I remember an old timer told me, honey waterfowl is easy. You just gotta get to where they want to be at first.

Tyce 32:43

Yeah.

Mike 32:43

And, and that's where the scouting comes in. And I just scouting, getting to know farmers, you know, if you befriend them, take care of them.

Tyce 32:52

Yeah, let's, let's talk about that. I want to dive into that.'cause I, Mike is really good at building relationships with people. Um, I, you, you do a lot of solo hunting and it seems like when you hunt, you, it's small numbers. Do you, I'm guessing you do that'cause a lot of farmers might be like, Hey, I. I don't, they'll let one person in, maybe two, but when it comes a big thing where they're bringing three, four, or five people, that's when they're like, ah, this is just kind of too much on my land and too much going on. Is that kind of why, or do you more just like, I kind of like just running the show myself? Or do you

Mike 33:29

Well, I like running the

Tyce 33:30

show. Well, tell me the reason why

Mike 33:32

I like. Show myself and if there's a banded bird that shot, I know who shot it. It's

Tyce 33:37

always Yeah. Okay.

Mike 33:37

You know, but, um, I don't know. It's just a real important,

Tyce 33:41

there's fun to do. Sorry I didn't cut you off. There's fun to do both. Like I, it's really fun to be just with your dog. You call the shots and kill. Course you get the bands and it's just that one-on-one. You don't have to deal with telling what someone had to do and blah, blah, blah, or you know, but it's also fun to hunt with buddies and shoot a few more birds and have that exp experience. I don't know. Tell me.

Mike 34:02

Well, it's like we talked about

Tyce 34:03

your thought process on, because

Mike 34:04

like this morning, you know, if. F we could have probably even hunted with another gun this morning. Easy.

Tyce 34:10

Easy. Yeah.

Mike 34:11

Um, because if there's a group of 12 geese that are finishing at 15 yards right in the hole. And if everybody, if

Tyce 34:18

you made a good note about this, a good thought about this earlier, so I'm glad you're bringing it up

Mike 34:21

and if, if everybody would is key is you have a discussion. Um, and certainly safety first barrels are always pointing, you know, shoot your lane downwind and you shoot your lanes. Yeah. And so if all the birds, you just shoot your lanes. And, and so what I'm getting at, we, we shot our 10 birds in three groups.

Tyce 34:43

Yeah.

Mike 34:43

We shot four. One and five.

Tyce 34:46

Yep.

Mike 34:47

And, and then like we say, we, we just got the hell out. Um, but that's, that's field hunting too.

Tyce 34:53

Well what you're saying there, if we had, not that you add a lot more'cause it might take longer, but if you had one more gun, you probably wouldn't have really buggered up that many more.

Mike 35:04

No. Correct.

Tyce 35:05

Because even if one person shooting, you still would've buggered those other birds up. Even if you shot five.

Mike 35:10

If I were shooting solo, I still would've needed those three groups to shoot five.

Tyce 35:14

Yeah.

Mike 35:15

But with you being there, we, you know, there was, we're not, I'm not blowing into more geese.

Tyce 35:21

Yeah.

Mike 35:21

Um, I'm not screwing stuff up. So, but

Tyce 35:24

maybe you start jumping into four or five now it's gonna take longer. Now you're gonna bugger up more groups.

Mike 35:29

Well, that's where,

Tyce 35:31

that's where that balance comes in.

Mike 35:32

That, and then, I mean, I just don't know how outfitters do it. And the patients with beginners, I mean, you know that people get buck fever and you know, with geese right there and they can shoot three times. And then you got that means if you're trying to get this guy limit, he's paying you.

Tyce 35:48

Yeah.

Mike 35:48

You know, then you gotta wait for another group and another group. Yeah.

Tyce 35:52

And,

Mike 35:52

and, but back to getting permission. Um,

Tyce 35:55

but they probably have maybe a lot of land or maybe it's a bigger flyaway and so they can maybe get around that right a little more where you're. Again, you know, you don't, you have a smaller chunk of ground that you're trying to keep, you know, primos, right? As long as you can. So,

Mike 36:10

well, I guess another, another thing I've said too is I don't go bird hunting or fishing for that fact to meet new friends. You know, it's just,

Tyce 36:18

yeah.

Mike 36:18

It's that important. And if I didn't have a dog, I bet I wouldn't Bird hunt.

Tyce 36:23

Yeah.

Mike 36:23

It's just as simple as that. The bird, the dog

Tyce 36:25

to that Yeah.

Mike 36:26

Is just a, a 50 50 partner. And then when I am like driving up to Canada solo, I mean, I made four trips this year. Um, I'm never alone. Um, always got the dog. And then over the years I've just. I've met some really great farmers. Um, you know, what do

36:46

you

Tyce 36:46

do to build relationships to farmers?

Mike 36:48

Um, bottles of booze, gift certificates, local restaurants just be nice people.

Tyce 36:54

Lot food, huh? Is a good way to people's hearts. Right.

Mike 36:58

And I give

36:59

them,

Tyce 36:59

you already need a lot sometimes, but,

Mike 37:00

and I process all, everything I shoot goes into either pepperoni sticks or summer sausage or, and, um, I give that away. Um, every, on my contacts, every farmer I'll have what he like, donuts. Some guy's like, you know, every, we're all different.

Tyce 37:17

Yeah. Keep track of kind

Mike 37:18

of, and I keep track. Yeah. And, and just be nice and, um, and express appreciation. And to your point, you know, I often, I've. With Onyx, now you, there's no excuse. You certainly know who owns it. You may, you know, it take, might take a little effort, but

Tyce 37:33

Yeah.

Mike 37:33

You know, once you get into a community and you can say, Hey, you know, Bob Jones, um, told me, gave me your name and number. I hunt his place just down the road. I saw some birds. On your field? Um, would it be okay if, are you around, can I come by and introduce myself?

Tyce 37:50

Yeah.

Mike 37:51

And I try to make, always make a 3D in-person introduction first, and then, because I've heard stories from these landowners, like, yeah, I've had it where one guy would ask for permission the next morning. There's eight guys. And it's a outfitter or just, you know, they're, that's not what I gave you permission.

Tyce 38:12

Yeah.

Mike 38:12

Or the other one is I gave you,

Tyce 38:14

so do you tell'em that when you

Mike 38:15

Absolutely.

Tyce 38:15

You're like, Hey, it's just gonna be me, just me and dog, maybe one other buddy or you. Yeah. And then if maybe you add one more guy, you're like, Hey, or even, or is it generally they're cool if you bring probably one other buddy or something like that?

Mike 38:26

I will always, you know, with texting, I, I always let him know, Hey, I'll be there in the morning.

Tyce 38:31

Just communicate clearly.

Mike 38:33

Yeah. Yeah. Just you can't over communicate. And I think I'll bring one other guy. And then the other thing is I'll always ask the landowners if they or their kids want to join me. Oh, that's great. So when I go to Canada, I always bring an extra layout. You know, I've gotten to know some, some, uh, good friends now that I've met up in Canada and, uh, or Nebraska.

Tyce 38:55

Yeah.

Mike 38:55

Or, you know, in the different areas that I'm, I'm able to go. And then what I find is,

Tyce 39:01

I think that's actually a really good tip. You always to invite them.

Mike 39:06

Yeah.

Tyce 39:06

Because then one, you build a good relationship with'em, but then two, like they just lets'em know you're, I dunno, I think that's a really good idea. That's a nugget I think for people.

Mike 39:14

Well, it's their land and it's, they're giving us the, the privilege and, you know, think about it in today's world, I mean it's with their. They're exposing themselves

Tyce 39:24

Sure.

Mike 39:25

To

Tyce 39:26

liability,

Mike 39:26

liability stuff. Yeah. And, and I've, I've been really lucky that way. I send Christmas cards or shoot a Christmas text these days, I guess. Yeah. You know, just stay in touch. Yeah. I contact them in the off season. Um,

Tyce 39:40

I'm sure you've built some that are honestly good friends now, over the years

Mike 39:43

I've had

Tyce 39:43

that you've

Mike 39:44

had people

Tyce 39:44

look forward to seeing every year and Yep.

Mike 39:46

Yep. And we visit, um, we might go to dinner, might go to grab a lunch. When I'm in their town. Um, I've had some, when a number of them might be driving for the winter to get out of the cold and go down to Arizona, they'll stop and spend the night and say hello.

Tyce 40:00

Yeah.

Mike 40:01

Um, yeah, it's, I, I co take

Tyce 40:03

care, take care of'em.

Mike 40:04

I covet those relationships. I really do.

Tyce 40:07

Yeah. Well, and Mike, and just so you guys listen, Mike is, he's, he's honestly that way. He is a really grateful guy. He is, you know. You know, I heard him talking to the landowner today. We dropped some food off after.

Mike 40:19

Oh, that's

Tyce 40:20

right. After he shot geese. And he's like, Hey, super grateful. Even though you're still paying'em, you know, you could be like, well, I'm paying you, you know, and I don't really care. Whatever. But yeah, you're still like, Hey, thank you. I'm sorry. You know, I didn't

Mike 40:30

quite catch that. Could you please say that

Tyce 40:32

again? Sorry folks. The car's chiming in here. It

Mike 40:34

was, it was Siri. Shut up. Siri sir.

Tyce 40:37

Did that on the podcast?

Mike 40:38

No. And then, yeah, I do about 10 years. I've hunted on this guy, like I said, 40 years. But he started getting some pressure from Outfitters, uh, about 10 years ago and, and some stupid numbers, and he mentioned it to me. So I give him. A little bit of money every year. So I do lease.

Tyce 40:58

Yeah.

Mike 40:58

Um, a couple, God, was it a number of fields? He's a, he's a dairy farmer.

Tyce 41:04

Yeah.

Mike 41:04

And then what I found dairy farmers grow stuff that bird upland and waterfowl like to eat.

Tyce 41:12

Yeah.

Mike 41:13

You know, versus a cattle rancher.

Tyce 41:15

Corn and

Mike 41:16

corn,

Tyce 41:17

whatever.

Mike 41:17

Tri the winter wheat.

Tyce 41:18

Yeah.

Mike 41:19

Uh, any grain crop.

Tyce 41:20

Yeah.

Mike 41:21

Barley, wheat. Um, let's see what else. That's a good, I guess that's it. Yeah. Yeah. But so that's one thing that, uh, dairy farmers. Are always good guys. I seek out in new areas.

Tyce 41:36

So some of that, Mike, it's been fun is, and I get a handful of clients that really take this serious. I mean, most of my clients are pretty serious, but there's some that are really serious and I think, you know, coming back to dogs and dog training, some I've been. Really proud or happy with Mike. He like you. You did like what I told you. I said, Hey, read the commands, make sure you're using the right commands. Watch the videos. And I remember you're like, you'd return a report. You're like, man, I'm watching these videos. I'm watching'em again. You're, and he is really trying to take that time that we put into his dog and obviously utilize that money and time that you know, the money you put into him, the time we did. So you have a really nice dog. And so it's been fun to see. Mike will send me videos of him handling his dog and he's using the right commands and. Doing everything, you know, the right way and the dog performs right, because you're being consistent there. So I, it's kind of like a proud dad moment

Mike 42:28

a little bit. Oh, that's cool.

Tyce 42:29

You know, when I, when I see that, I'm like, that's just cool. And it's fun to see you do well with coffee.

Mike 42:34

Well, you have helped me and then we've, we've mentioned a number of dogs and they were all serviceable good dogs. But you've taught me, and I've had time now that I'm retired.

Tyce 42:45

Yeah.

Mike 42:45

And then Cobb just turned three, so this is his third. I mean,

Tyce 42:50

and he's killing it.

Mike 42:51

He's sun hunting birds from September one till February. You know Nebraska Goose, almost

Tyce 42:56

every week you're on.

Mike 42:58

You're on a couple times a week. Yeah. And then when we're on trips, it's every day.

Tyce 43:01

Yeah.

Mike 43:02

So with all that being said. Um, Tyce, we talked about how you were gonna help me train this dog. So you did the, the forced fetch and the things that I can't do

Tyce 43:14

and the handling

Mike 43:15

and the ba and the basic handling. Correct.

Tyce 43:18

Yeah. Did we do obedience or did he,

Mike 43:19

you

Tyce 43:19

already had that?

Mike 43:20

I did a. Obedience with a, a girl in our hometown.

Tyce 43:25

Okay.

Mike 43:25

And, um, we're a couple towns away.

Tyce 43:28

Well, it started out, Mike, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're like, Hey, can I just do some one-on-one sessions with you? And we did some of that, kind of gave you some tips of evaluation.

Mike 43:39

Well, that we did that with Henry. And that's where I got to know you. And then once I,

Tyce 43:43

I'm, I'm drawing a blank on Henry.

Mike 43:45

A little short, 55 pound. Um, he was a good dog.

Tyce 43:49

Did we do some of those with Cobb too?

Mike 43:50

Well, with Cobb, we, I get got him to you at six months.

Tyce 43:55

Okay.

Mike 43:55

And then you did, I

Tyce 43:56

I maybe I mixed

Mike 43:57

it together. And you did the I did the obedience. We, we got'em in as a puppy. And then up, this is worth mentioning, the previous dogs I had purchased were quasi started. They were anywhere from. Seven to 12 months old because I was working, I, um, don dark. I was on the grind. Yeah. And I felt, I, I wanted to see what kind of dog I was buying. Mm-hmm. I didn't feel confident just buying an eight week or puppy. A puppy.

Tyce 44:26

Yeah.

Mike 44:27

And, and then my wife, and maybe that's why they weren't quite, um. You know, kind of Henry had his own program, good Dog, but would kind of wander off. And then now that I was retired and talked to my wife about it, she goes, let's get a puppy and see if we can really get him to bond. And so we did that and then we spent six months. I highly recommend any obedience because that gets the dog. My wife, myself, the family is all speaking the same language. Yep. With the same expectations. And it's just like raising a kid, kid. You know, you wanna share

Tyce 45:05

same page,

Mike 45:05

you wanna show him what's expected praise in public reprimand, in private, and you know, be consistent. So he really responded well to that. Then I got him to you for, I think it was a couple months.

Tyce 45:17

Okay.

Mike 45:18

And that was, it worked out well.'cause that was in the summer. Because he was born in November. We did some obedience. Oh, you, no, we just, you did the force fetch.

Tyce 45:29

Okay.

Mike 45:29

And then I, I took him up to Canada and hunted him.

Tyce 45:32

Oh, that's right. We did force, force fetch and steadiness a little bit.

Mike 45:35

Yeah. And then we really started

Tyce 45:37

getting him steady.

Mike 45:37

We didn't really work on blinds. And that's'cause because he, you, you told me he's at a good point. He wasn't even one yet. He was and

Tyce 45:47

go hunting him, but

Mike 45:47

he

Tyce 45:48

doesn't

Mike 45:48

handle, just hunt him and don't sweat. He's not gonna be perfect. Yeah.

Tyce 45:52

But

Mike 45:53

he really steadied up, so I just worked,

Tyce 45:55

wasn't that dove hunt his first son?

Mike 45:57

The dove hunt was his first one. Small and that, those are rough because it's, you know, it's hot, it's 90 degrees. They're small. Small feathers. Yeah. Not a lot of scent, but it's a retrieving.

Tyce 46:07

Yeah.

Mike 46:08

And you know, really the first I spent time. Like dove hunting. I, um, I was handling the dog and where I, I was spending more time when he was young with a couple other guys, let them do the shooting and I was handling the, I was handling the dog.

Tyce 46:25

I think that's huge, huge for steadiness especially, and just everything in general. One thing I thought that was always fun and tell me, unless I'm wrong. You didn't, up until Cobb, you didn't really know what blinded trees or handling was. Is that

Mike 46:39

myself? Myself personally?

Tyce 46:40

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike 46:40

I never took my dogs to that level. To that level. No. I just took them that they were, they would be obedient and, but as far

Tyce 46:48

with them,

Mike 46:48

no. I remember when you, you, you got'em to that level of blinds and. Let's face it, Tyce spends an hour training a dog. He spends two hours training me. Right on how to, seriously.

Tyce 47:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike 47:03

And I remember in your front field where you showed me what that dog could do, and I was absolutely blown away.

Tyce 47:12

I remember that

Mike 47:12

whistle stop and then. On a, you could go anywhere from over to back and like the arms of a clock, you could angle it. Yeah. And I was absolutely blown away. It was like having a little toy. Yeah. Remote control. Remote control. And the, and the, the other thing you've commented, and I firmly believe it, this dog that we've got now, Cobb, is he loves to train.

Tyce 47:37

Yeah.

Mike 47:37

He just loves it. Hmm. And what I've learned too, in the last couple dogs, more than I knew before, is mental exercise and can get a dog just as tired as running them five miles.

Tyce 47:49

Yeah.

Mike 47:49

And so I will take him out on our place. I'm training him, I'm working on either, um, um, like blinds mm-hmm. Or um,

Tyce 48:01

marking or different lining drills.

Mike 48:03

Yeah. The lining drill. All these. Little and you it's It's 10 minutes.

Tyce 48:06

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike 48:06

But the dog is fired up and it also reinforces the positive. And it's a good water,

Tyce 48:11

water entry, angled entry to water,

Mike 48:14

not cheating. Remember

Tyce 48:14

those little things where him that?

Mike 48:16

Yep. Yep.

Tyce 48:18

Something like something. I gotta chime in here.'cause it was so funny. I remember Mike when, I think it was when you first saw him handle. And you're just like, you're almost mad.'cause you're like, I can't believe I'm like this age in my life and I've never had a dog at this level.

Mike 48:32

That's exactly correct.

Tyce 48:33

You felt like you almost got gypped a little bit. You're like, man, I only got 20 years left of hunting in my life.

Mike 48:37

Exactly. And I had,

Tyce 48:39

I'm only learning now. I can have a dog that does this.

Mike 48:41

That's, you are spot on. And then we, we used them on a blind. The, when we were picking up like idiots, you know, like a, a three alarm drill, you know, because we gotta get outta the field here, grab the decoys. I'll get the truck, we'll get the ground blind. Yeah. We throw everything in and then we pick up and Ty says, there's only nine geese here. And I said, we shot 10 and we're trying to get out, what the hell? We were looking in the ditch and couldn't find them and we're driving out and uh, um, and then Ty actually said, let's go across this, the adjacent field and sure as hell. That bird had walked, what, two or 300 yards?

Tyce 49:19

Oh yeah. I was surprised how much ground it covered.

Mike 49:21

It's

Tyce 49:21

amazing.

Mike 49:22

But we spotted it and then got the dog out and had some good, good blind. Um, yeah,

Tyce 49:27

it was probably a hundred yards out.

Mike 49:28

Yeah.

Tyce 49:28

And I mean, it took seconds to get it to cop to it, you know, less than a minute. And,

Mike 49:33

but it was, it was, it

Tyce 49:34

would had to walk over there. It would've taken a while.

Mike 49:36

Right.

Tyce 49:36

Then you hike it back.

Mike 49:37

But it's something simple like that's another training opportunity.

Tyce 49:40

Yeah.

Mike 49:40

Um. I can't, you know, I've got a bucket full of, uh, bumpers. I've got two bumpers in my truck. I always, the dog is always into it. And, and even, um, what's that? When you do, when you, the

Tyce 49:52

wagon wheel drill.

Mike 49:53

Yeah, the wagon wheel. Yeah. I do the wagon wheel. All it's

Tyce 49:55

great wagon drill. And Well, it's, it's, it's interesting like a lot of people don't know what handling or blind retrieves are. And, and it is, it is more if you're paying someone to do it, it is more of an investment. I mean, it takes

Mike 50:08

true

Tyce 50:09

seven to eight months to get a dog to that level. But I tell everyone, I'm like, if you get a dog to that senior hunter type level where they handle, they can develop me, they have memory. Like, you'll never go back. It's like, can you imagine not having a dog that handles now it's like you would like, what am I? It's like half the cake, you know?

Mike 50:26

Not for a second.

Tyce 50:27

Yeah.

Mike 50:28

And, and, and, no, I forgot that your point is well taken. I go, what the hell was I doing the previous 40 years? And, you know,

Tyce 50:37

not, you can't hunt with that dog. No. But handling dog, there's so much more teamwork.

Mike 50:41

Yes.

Tyce 50:42

Which is fun. A dog doesn't handle, it's like, okay, just go get it. Go search it. I'll try to kind of point you to it, but a handling dog, I mean, it's just so fun, the teamwork part.

Mike 50:51

It really is. And, and I'm not a water hunter like you are. Um, I'll hunt. Well, well let me take that back. I even some, I've shot some pheasants on the other side, on the other side of a canal. And, and I can, I can handle the dog back to the down pheasant that I can't, this, I can't cross the canal to get to.

Tyce 51:12

Mm-hmm.

Mike 51:12

And he's made some re and I can't even see the dog. Mm-hmm. I, I'll just send him back and then I'll just guide him

Tyce 51:18

into that area,

Mike 51:19

guide him in and I'll say, hunt him up. Mm-hmm. And then what tyce I have been good with, uh. Just, what does he have? Six. Six commands maybe. I mean, it's not a big vocabulary, but you have to be consistent.

Tyce 51:32

Yeah.

Mike 51:32

You don't talk to a dog in full sentences.

Tyce 51:35

Mm-hmm.

Mike 51:35

And, um, and the dog really responds. He knows what's expected of

Tyce 51:39

him. Yep. Yep. Yeah, Cobb, um, we're getting close here to getting outta my car, so we're gonna wrap it up in a little bit. But Cobb is a, he's a great dog, Mike, you know, I'm gonna throw a little plug in there. Mike. You know, he did all his health clearances. We put a senior hunter title on him. Did he go five for five? I think he, he went

Mike 51:57

five for six.

Tyce 51:58

Five for six or something.

Mike 52:00

Yeah.

Tyce 52:00

Can't remember what it even was, but, and we went straight to senior. So he is an amazing off switch. He's back here just sleeping, hanging out.

Mike 52:10

Right. So I travel.

Tyce 52:10

That's why he's so quiet. Right. He is like loyal to

Mike 52:12

be out. He's he's on a, yeah, he is in the back of the truck, on the floor, um, on a pad. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't really keep him in kennels. I mean, he sleeps down in the mud room. He's a part of our family, but

Tyce 52:24

mm-hmm. So anyways, put a Senior Hunter title on him. He has all his health clearances, just a really healthy, nice animal. So if I'll just put a plug out, if someone has a really nice lab or a nice lab that they're wanting to better or, um, you know, reach out to me or you can even, uh, and I'll get you Mike's, uh, phone number. You can, you know, DM us on, you know, our Instagram at Utah Bird Dog training or. Uh, you know, my cell's on our website, um, and we can get you in touch if you have a really nice female, um, that you're looking to breed to a pointing lab. That's something we haven't even touched too. He carries the natural pointing gene. He has a nice point. So the, the pointing lab is just really, it's just fun. It's like an added bonus. It, it's just, it's cool to see him lock up.

Mike 53:08

But one of the things I do want to jump in, I think when, when Pointing Labs were first coming on the market, I thought they were kind of skinny, pointed, nosed.

Tyce 53:17

Mm-hmm.

Mike 53:17

Uh, this, I really like the way this dog, I get a lot of compliments. Yeah. On this dog. He's 75. He's got a really good, um, good, good blocky head, but he's not big. He's lean, he's athletic.

Tyce 53:32

Well, you look at him, he just looks like a normal lab, right? Yeah. He's a good looking lab. And when you have waterfowl or all that, you know, you never know that he carries out pointing genius. That's

Mike 53:41

a good point. Yeah.

Tyce 53:41

And that's, that's how I got into the, my first dog that ever had, well, one of my first good labs, she naturally just had a. The pointing gene. And, and after she passed, I was like, that was just kind of fun when she'd lock up on these pheasants naturally. So then I looked for, you know, dogs that were being bred to do that and to, you know, and so we could have that gene carried on. So when I breed too, my personal dogs and I bred my female to cob and we'll continue to do some breeding to him, you know, I want a good al dog, a dog that can run blinds. He marks well. He's good in the water. He's a, he's a good off switch. I think that's huge, obviously for your dog. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, just super versatile. A good family dog.'cause 90% of the time Yep. They're just a pet, you know? So, but if you're looking for a good stud, he's a black lab. Um, does he carry, I can't remember what he carries on his mom and dad's side of where color factoring he is, but

Mike 54:40

I think he's mostly black. He, he threw that. A, a chocolate.

Tyce 54:44

My female has chocolate. That female had chocolate. Oh, got it. On her side. So it could have probably come.

Mike 54:49

Got it.

Tyce 54:50

You know,

Mike 54:51

I think he's, but you know that world more than I, so

Tyce 54:54

Sure.

Mike 54:55

But yeah, I'd, I'd love to breed him again. We've done it twice.

Tyce 54:59

Yeah. Yeah. So,

Mike 55:00

um, and then. TE has taught me too about breeding. It's not backyard breeding. It's, it's, you know, put a thought, try to match up, um, the, uh, the DNA, the, the, the pedigree and, and try to work on, you know, I, I've really, I've learned a lot through te Um, I will comment though, when I'm watching your videos. I can't have the dog in the same, in the kitchen table because he's hearing whistles and commands and over, and the dog is just like, WTF is going on.

Tyce 55:34

Should I be working?

Mike 55:35

Right, right, right, right. It's always funny. Yeah,

Tyce 55:38

that's

Mike 55:38

funny. All right,

Tyce 55:39

well, Mike, thanks for the hunt today and coming on the podcast. It's, I mean, we could go, I think on for hours and hours and get on the nitty gritty and I mean, you're. You're like me, you're passionate about these dogs. You're passionate about, you know, conservation and birds and the, everything around us. I mean, we just, we want this to go on forever, right? Yeah. And so it's, and we're really blessed. We live where we live. We get to do what we want to do and hunt these amazing birds and work with these amazing dogs. So,

Mike 56:10

yep.

Tyce 56:11

Um, so if, if you guys are looking for, you know, some good. Uh, you know, you're looking for some good future litters or anything like that, hit us up. If you're looking for a good stud, you can reach out to me and I can get you Mike's contact info. Our, our training website again is Utah Bird Dog Training. If you're looking for, uh, Utah bird dog training.com. If you're looking for a nice dog, cra, uh, co. Again, check out nda.com. They make the best caught for indoors. That, that I've seen. And then crispy boots, that's what I wear when I'm out hunting. I really love them, support them, uh, tangle free. They've been a great business to work with. So buy some of their decoys. They're great decoys too. And, um, and anyways, hope you guys have a great day. Hope you finish out strong, um, you know, with your hunting season. And, you know, before you know it. Hunting season's gonna be here again. So, you know, if you have a young dog, start training them now. You know, right now is the time. I mean, it's gonna be here in another seven, eight months.

Mike 57:14

Yep.

Tyce 57:14

You know, we'll be hunting again and things are starting to dove hunt and it starts over again. And that's not a big win. That's not a lot of time to get those dogs trained. So remember I always say this in the podcast, train for the hunts. Look at your end goals, how you are gonna hunt that dog. If it's field hunting, if it's water hunting, if it's in a boat. And train for those. But start off with the basics and with those end goals in sight, and you'll have a great dog. So thanks for coming on again, Mike, and

Mike 57:40

Okay,

Tyce 57:41

we'll talk soon.

Mike 57:42

Thanks for having me. All right. Thanks, Tyson.

Tyce 57:43

Thanks, man.

Mike 57:44

See you.