The Bird Dog Podcast
Hosted by professional bird dog trainer Tyce Erickson, The Bird Dog Podcast is all about bird dogs, bird hunting, and becoming a better handler in the field.
We cover everything from bird dog training, hunting tactics, gear, and equipment to conversations with trainers, breeders, hunters, and others who live and breathe the bird dog world. You’ll hear stories from the field, practical training advice, and plenty of discussion about both retrieving and pointing breeds.
Whether you're training your first bird dog, working toward the next level with an experienced dog, or simply love hunting behind a good dog, our goal is to help you become a more confident handler and a more successful hunter.
If you're passionate about bird dogs and everything that goes along with them, you're in the right place.
Thanks for listening to The Bird Dog Podcast — and good hunting.
The Bird Dog Podcast
(Ep.56) Is your boat ready for the hunts? Backwater performance & Glade Harris
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Glade Harris | Owner of Backwater Performance (BPS)
In this episode of The Bird Dog Podcast, Tyce sits down with Glade Harris, owner of Backwater Performance (BPS), to talk all things duck hunting—boats, dogs, and getting your setup dialed in for the season.
Glade shares practical tips for preparing and maintaining your duck boat, keeping it reliable throughout hunting season, and making sure your boat, gear, and dog are ready when it’s time to hit the water.
https://backwaterperformance.com
https://www.instagram.com/backwaterperformance
Website: https://www.thebirddogpodcast.com
Products & Resources We Recommend
The Gunshy Fix
Introduce your dog to gunfire the right way—or help work through an existing gunshy issue with The Gunshy Fix.
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Kuranda Dog Beds
Durable, easy to clean, and one of our favorite elevated dog beds for kennels and working dogs.
👉 Shop Kuranda Dog Beds
NuVet
Check out the NuVet products we use and recommend for our dogs.
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Training & Breeding
Utah Bird Dog Training
www.utahbirddogtraining.com
Field Bred Golden Retrievers
www.fieldbredgoldenretrievers.com
Utah Pointing Labs
www.utahpointinglabs.com
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Thanks for listening to The Bird Dog Podcast — and good hunting!
Hey, folks. Welcome to the Bird Dog Podcast. In this, uh, episode, I sit down with my good buddy, Glade Harris, with, uh, Backwater Performance, and we talk about, uh, boats and getting your boat, uh, ready for the hunts and dogs, um, working dogs off boats, and just all the good stuff around boats and dogs. So, uh, Glade's a super experienced waterfowler. He knows his stuff. He knows his stuff about, uh, boats and duck hunting boats and all, all that good stuff. So I hope you guys really enjoy this one. I really enjoyed, uh, being with Glade. Um, check out, um, all of his stuff, Backwater Performance, um, their website and on Instagram. Uh, he also has a podcast. You guys can get on there and, and listen to him. He's, he's a great guy and appreciate you, you guys supporting his, his business too. And, um, and then in, in the meantime, go ahead and jump over to Instagram and give us a follow at Utah Bird Dog Training, uh, Field Bred Golden Retrievers, and, uh, the Bird Dog Podcast. We really appreciate you guys supporting us there. And if you're looking for, um, a, the best kennel cot out there, check out kuranda.com, K-U-R-A-N-D-A.com. Um, if you go on the show notes, click on the link, and if you get one through there, that really helps us out. Um, and also NuVet, if you guys are looking for a really good supplement to help your dog and supplement your food and, and, um, and, uh, not have to deal with... You know, just get some good stuff in addition to the food that you're feeding. Um, they have a lot of awesome products over there that you could go check out too. So, uh, I really appreciate you guys, uh, supporting us and listening to the podcast, and hope you guys are having a, a great, uh, summer, getting your dogs ready for the hunts. Before we know it, these hunts are starting up. I mean, we're only two weeks out from the opener here in Utah for doves and grouse, and then it just starts rolling. We got chukar and, and waterfowl, and it just gets really exciting. So remember to prep your dogs for the hunt. Train for how you hunt. So think of how you're gonna, uh, set up with your dog, and then literally do training scenarios that are as close to that as possible, so when your dog gets in the field, you're gonna minimize those surprises and have a smooth and fun hunting, um, hunt and hunting season. So you guys have a great day, and we'll see you in the next one.
SpeakerAll right, folks. Welcome to the Birddog Podcast. My name is Tyce Erickson, and I'll be your host today. I got my buddy, uh, with us here today, Glade Harris. Um, Glade Harris is a stud. We've done some hunting together. I actually worked with his dog. He, he did some, some training on his own, and we got to do a little work on her, so we'll want to hear about her and, and h- the latest on her also. But, um, Glade, welcome to the podcast, man.
Speaker 2Thanks. Thanks for having me.
SpeakerTell, tell us ab- tell us about you, Glade.
Speaker 2Sure. Um, yeah, I mean, uh, I guess you could define me as a waterfowler. You know, I've been doing it since I was, uh, since I could walk probably. Uh, probably before then, uh, Dad and Grandpa would load me into the, you know We didn't really have boats back then. We'd just, you know, walk and jump shoot birds off, off the rivers and things- Mm-hmm like that, or set up on the edge of a, a reservoir somewhere. Um, but yeah, I remember, you know, for some of the first memories are- Mm are, are duck and goose hunting. Um- Are you
Speakerborn and raised in Utah?
Speaker 2Yeah, yep. Okay. Born and raised in Utah.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Yep. Um, you know, I guess moving on, um, uh, I- Started doing it on my own quite a bit. Uh, same, just jump shooting rivers and, and- Mm-hmm um, edges, reservoirs and things like that. I never really even used a decoy until I was probably, I don't know, 16 or so. Okay. Uh, I started working at Sportsman's Warehouse back then, and, uh, you know, people come in all the time buying a bunch of decoys and buying- Mm-hmm waterfowl gear, and I'd, you know, make fr- friends with some guys and things and, and, uh, you know, started getting a little bit more serious about it and, um, it just turned into a full on addiction after that. Mm-hmm. You know, first time decoying a bird was, you know, just blew my mind.
SpeakerSo I wanna... While we're on talking on this topic, and I think, I think for guys, this is kind of the, the line I say, like, for waterfowlers, we got mud in our blood. There's like, you know, like when, when you get hooked, guys like, like us, like they go all in. They're like, "Buy the boats," and the, "Buy the, the duck club mem- or whatever, you know? It's just... 'Cause it's, you have an experience usually that just is, is so, it imprints on you so strong. Um, and for me, I can remember, and I've asked a lot of people in the same way, can you remember the first time, like, was there a bird, like your first bird you shot and you connected on it, like a pheasant or a duck or something like that where like it just kind of blew your mind and you were hooked?
Speaker 2Probably-
SpeakerCan you remember back s- Yeah like one time where you were like, "Whoa," like that goose or that greenhead or whatever it may have been.
Speaker 2It, it was probably the very first duck that I ever shot myself, which was w- I was with my grandfather. We were on the Colorado River- Mm-hmm um, and we were doing kind of a cast and blast. In fact, that was the name of his boat, was Cast and Blast. Oh, cool. Uh, but w- we would, uh, it's just kind of below Lake Powell on the Colorado River- Mm-hmm the Lees Ferry area. And, um, we would just kinda drift the boat into flocks of birds, and they would jump up and we would shoot them.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2And, um, it w- the very first, it, I was using a 12 gauge. I was pro- I was, I think I was 12, you know, probably 100 pounds.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2Uh, first greenhead flies over the top of me. It was probably 40, 45 yards. Smoke it. Uh, jumping up and down, you know. Mm-hmm. He couldn't believe it and everything. And then for the next, you know, eight hours and six boxes of shotgun shells, I never hit another duck. That's awesome. And he, he gave me crap about that until, you know, until he passed last year, but, um- Mm yeah, I'd say that's kind, that was probably, you know, what did it.
SpeakerYeah. I had a time like that, too. I sh- my first duck I actually shot, I was aiming at a different duck and I hit the one behind it. Yep. It went down, and it was still like, I was like, "That was amazing." And, and I, I think that the first time I was out on Mud Bay, I was just, I was like, "Well, let's go duck hunting," and we hiked out to the marsh and some greenheads came by, and I can still remember it so clear in my head. They, like, flew over and the sun was, like, glistening on their head, you know, and it was, and we shot at them. I totally whiffed, but just r- like that alone, like- hooked me on ducks. I was like, "That was so cool to see that greenhead and shoot at him," and then I actually hit one, you know, was awesome. So it's fun how it just sometimes, like, it just sears into your brain, you know, and, and, uh- Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, for sure.
SpeakerAnd now, like, you, you know, you've shot thousands of birds, and I've shot thousands of birds too, but it's just, it, you kinda take that for granted sometime. I mean, we still love it, but it's like, when you take, like, a young kid or something, you don't realize, like, for their first time, that, like, it can burn, it can be really impactful on their life or even their trajectory of their life. For
Speaker 2sure.
SpeakerLike me training dogs for a living, you know? Those birds were what motivated me to get dogs, and now I do this for a living, you know? So.
Speaker 2Yep. Yeah, that's one of my favorite things to do is, is it's not so much about, you know, the w- my hunts anymore. It's-
SpeakerMm-hmm
Speaker 2uh, taking people that haven't done it or, or guys that have done it a lot and never done it the way that I do it- Mm-hmm or, you know, kids and all, all that kind of thing. It's my favorite to take people out that- Yeah that get to go, "Oh my gosh, I didn't believe that this was even a thing." Or harvest a
Speakerspecies that's new or-
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakerto them or something like
Speaker 2that. Yeah, exactly. Or first time on an airboat or- Mm-hmm first time being on the Great Salt Lake, things like that.
SpeakerYeah. That's kinda, we were just talking about some, uh, I went to New Zealand last year and sh- and shot some, uh, shell ducks, and we were... I remember a couple years ago, I think we were, I was at your office, and we were looking. You're like, "Man, I wanna go kill some of these shell..." But for us too, it's special. Anywhere you go somewhere n- new and harvest a, a new species, that's just a cool... You know, it's all about the whole experience, right? And the people and maybe the new location of the water or the lake or the ocean or the river system or, you know, bringing them down through the trees or open marsh or the Great Salt Lake on the flats, you know? It's just, it can take you to so many cool places or, you know, you've been all over the world, but, like, you know... Did you hunt in St. Paul? Is that where you killed- Yep your king eiders? Uh-huh.
Speaker 2Yep, St. Paul.
SpeakerYeah, out of St. Paul and killing king eiders and, um, and now it obviously what you do for your living now that, uh, you're like me. It kind of pulled you in- into that, right? For sure, yep. So tell, tell us about your business and what you guys do.
Speaker 2Yeah, so I own Backwater Performance. Um, basically we're a, we're a sister company of MudBuddy and XL Boats. Um, we, uh, w- we sell all the replacement parts, performance parts, accessories, um, basically anything that you can put inside of a, a duck boat. Um, we're now the dealer for MudBuddy and XL for the whole Western United States. Oh, wow. Um, sign up new dealers in, in the Western United States. Um, you know-
SpeakerSo are you like an o- like a... How do, what do they call that? Like, you're the main dealer or what? How's that?
Speaker 2Um-
SpeakerIs there a name for that?
Speaker 2S-
SpeakerOther dealers come underneath you?
Speaker 2It, that, yeah. I mean, we're gonna kinda be a hub, you could say- Okay
Speakerfor
Speaker 2the, for the West. Um, the Excel is, has been, you know, historically more of a, a Southeastern United States company.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Uh, the, the types of boats that they sell and build are, are well-suited for that. But, uh, now they're starting to build some other types of boats that are, you know, guys that like to, to troll for salmon and things like that- Mm-hmm um, more in the West. So yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna be a hub basically for, for the West.
SpeakerAre you gonna have the- offer those kind of boats too, or are you mostly just the-
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely. Yep.
SpeakerOkay, you'll do everything. Yep. Everything sell.
Speaker 2Anything that Excel sells and, and- Okay we're bringing on a bunch of other manufacturers as well. Mm-hmm. But just, uh, sticking strictly to hunting and fishing boats. Okay. Al- aluminum.
SpeakerI'm a, I'm a little prej- I lo- I have an Excel boat myself, so I, and I absolutely love it. Um, and I have... I, we were just talking off, off, off air. Um, I have a client that just texted me today, and he's getting a, I'm sure, a boat from you. Mm-hmm. We talked about it. I think he's working with Travis, but his name is also Travis. And, um, and he's like, "What do, what do you wish I'd get on my boat?" You know? And then, um- Um, and I have another buddy that just bought out a, bought a boat from you guys. Um, I have his dog Moose, and his name's Wes, Wes Jones. Gosh, is it Jo- Do y- Does that name sound familiar?
Speaker 2No, but it's
Speakerprobably- I know he drives a lot of your- Jeff's probably working on it. Yeah, he's probably- Yeah. Yeah, I know y- you're, you're managing the business and, um, but, um, anyway, he, he, he showed me his invo- He, I think he decked it out all the way
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakerwith everything.
Speaker 2Most guys do. Yeah. Any more, most guys do. They get, you know- Yeah every single thing you could possibly want in a, in an aluminum boat.
SpeakerYeah. So tell us one, I guess, um, do you do airboats too, or just-
Speaker 2Not really. At a- Okay at a, at a point we did. Uh, we, I, I still kind of own the company that, that, that builds airboats, Dragonfly. Mm-hmm. But, um, man, it's a, it's a hard business.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2The, everybody wants them custom built. Uh, nobody... Um, most people that want them are in the, the southeast somewhere, Texas- Mm-hmm Florida, Louisiana. Uh, so we build them here how they want it. We ship it to them, and i-i-it's, it's not a Honda Civic, you know? It's, it's- Mm-hmm they, they require- A
Speakerlot of maintenance
Speaker 2constant maintenance and upkeep. And, and not just maintenance, but I mean, they're gonna break. Yeah. It's not when or if, it's when, and it, it's real hard to do it remotely for me as a, you know, the guy that builds it.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2I- if it's, if, if we have any kind of warranty, you know, how do I, how do I- Mm-hmm help them get it fixed being a couple thousand miles away?
SpeakerWhy, why is, why do airboats break down? Is it the shaking? Is it the way they're... Like, what, what, why is there so m- where are the failure points usually on a airboat?
Speaker 2Yeah. So most of the motors that we're using are either aircraft, which is kind of the older style, or else, uh, automotive, LS, you know, Chevy LS V8s- Mm-hmm is, is kind of the most common thing. Um, and they're, it's not just one that you pull that, that's a crate motor from a, from a regular pickup truck.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2It's w- we're taking a, we're taking them from the ground up with blocks. The, the pistons are everything, and they're high performance.
SpeakerHmm.
Speaker 2So it's not just your stock, you know, 200 horsepower engine out of the truck. Oh, okay. It's, it's five, six thousand horsepower engines. Wow. And, um, they're- They weren't really designed to run at 4- The level of air 5, 6,000 RPMs all day long All day, all day
Speakerlong. Hmm
Speaker 2which we do when we're running an airboat.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2And so, and, you know, on top of that, they're... Your, those engines weren't meant to be exposed to the air and water- Hmm and salt and, and everything else.
SpeakerWeeds flying through them
Speaker 2and Right. Right. And the, you know, like you said, the vibrations are crazy. Mm-hmm. The big, big giant 86-inch wide prop. Mm-hmm. Um, the, the... We only put one gear ratio in them, so it's- Mm-hmm with a, with a truck, a car, your engine, it, it, it shifts with the- Sure with the transmission. Yeah. So you're always running it at a lower RPM. It, it'll go to a higher RPM for a second and then shift down.
SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2And then for a higher RPM- It w- it's better at that lower
SpeakerRPM, right? Yeah and then shift.
Speaker 2Um, so it doesn't run at those high RPMs constantly. So-
SpeakerHmm
Speaker 2you know, long story short, they're just put under extreme conditions that they weren't designed for.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2And, um, on top of that, the boat itself, the electronics, the lights, the, you know, the, the computers, the- Yeah all that stuff just, it just gets beat up. We're duck hunters, you know? Yeah. Stuff gets full of mud and saltwater and, and ice and- It's harsh conditions. Yeah
Speakercaked
Speaker 2and all that stuff.
SpeakerDo they... What, do you guys, do you guys work on people's airboats, though? Not really.
Speaker 2Not really?
SpeakerNot really. Okay. So you're not, like, trying to bring us airboat back
Speaker 2No. We... I've, I've, I've done it. Um, and it's the same thing. It's just, uh, uh, every single job is custom and, and it's, and unique- Yeah and it's, it's hard to, you know, it's really hard to make any money doing it.
SpeakerSo we're kind of going down a, a different rabbit hole. Is that, if someone has an airboat and they want it worked on or who do you recommend for that? Was there- Is there someone in Utah that you trust?
Speaker 2Definitely. Okay. Definitely. Anything that has to do with the engine, go to Tyler Rhodes. Okay. Um, he's the one that built my engine. Uh, I haven't had any problems with mine. Many of the things that I just talked about- Mm-hmm none, haven't had any problems. Um- But does
Speakerhe have a business name, or?
Speaker 2It's Rhodes Performance Motorsports. Okay. RPM. Okay.
SpeakerSo,
Speaker 2yep. Um- I
Speakerthink I've heard of his stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. Real- really, really good, really good guy. Knows airboats up and down, has them himself.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2So, yep, good guy.
SpeakerDoes he build them or just do maintenance on them?
Speaker 2He'll, uh, everything, ground u- anything to do with the engine, maintenance, repairs- Okay build- building one from the ground up, he'll do it.
SpeakerThe boat part it?
Speaker 2Just the motor.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Now, if you want the, the boat part, uh, that'd be Widowmaker. Widowmaker? You know, that, that's who built mine. Yep. Okay. Chuck, Chuck Harsen.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Um, yep, he built mine. Very, very nice boats. Very... All the, all the fabrication on it's great.
SpeakerMm-hmm. Okay. Well, we may see a little more airboats depending on what our drought continues this
Speaker 2year, right? Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
SpeakerOh, yeah, we'll see what the water... We hopefully we get some moisture here before the hunts come. I was hoping that monsoon weather would drop us, dr- raise our lakes up a little bit, but these 100-degree days, man, it's, it's dropping that water level- Lots, lots of 100-degree
Speaker 2days
Speakeryeah, pretty quick. It'll be, it'll be interesting to, to see. Okay, let's ta- let's talk about Excel boats. Let's talk about, um, kinda maintenance on them. I know I've, I've had some, um, I, kind of being a... You know, I always had growing up, like, just little crappy aluminum boats with the... I wouldn't say cra- well, for wha- that's what I could afford at that point, right? Mm-hmm. Sure. Like a little Johnson motor and just that'd get us out, but at least it'd get us out from the crowds, you know? But going with my boat, um- It would kinda, I would have some issues with, um, is it the injectors would kinda clog up on it. Uh-
Speaker 2Yeah. Or yours, I think yours is, uh, carbureted, right?
SpeakerCarbure- Yeah, I mean carbureted. Yeah, so the jets in the carb- Sorry,
Speaker 2not the carburetor clogged up and yeah.
SpeakerYeah. I'm not a big mo- I mean, I know a little bit, but not... And I'm learning more as you, you know- Yeah are around the boats. Yeah,
Speaker 2you have to.
SpeakerAnd I've actually cleaned them out myself, but I bring it to Glade and his, his guys and have them do a tune-up every year on it, and that's always awesome to do. But one thing I didn't really do is run the fuel out-
Speaker 2Mm-hmm
Speakerof the carbure- Yep it seems like that's helped.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a big deal. Yep. Uh, and that's one of the biggest maintenance things, uh, and service things on these s- on, especially carbureted is all this new ethanol fuel that we've got lately. Mm-hmm. Uh, if you let it sit in anywhere for, for more than a month, it just turns into gel.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2And it, it, uh, it clogs up everything, your whole system, so.
SpeakerSo tell people how we avoid that or what to do and-
Speaker 2Yeah. So i- if you're constantly using it, if it's middle of duck season, you're using your boat every single week, um, just run it, you know. Um, if-
SpeakerFresh gas is gonna keep it
Speaker 2good- Yeah and everything like that just keep putting fuel in it. And if you run it out, that's fine. But if it's gonna sit for any longer than two weeks- Okay then you need to put some kind of a fuel stabilizer in it.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Uh- What do you like? There's lots of different kinds. Um, you know, I just use Sta-Bil- Mm-hmm uh, which is kind of probably the most common one. But it, it just keeps your fuel from, from varnishing and gelling up and causing all sorts of problems.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Um, you know, it, it's really not... If you can run it all out, great, but there's still gonna be fuel-
SpeakerIn
Speaker 2there in the system.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2So even if you are gonna run it out- get some kind of stabilizer in there first.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2And that'll keep it from, you know, from having problems when you go to start it up next year.
SpeakerYeah. That's what I do is I'll, I'll... From, I've learned from you, yeah, put the s- Is it Sta-Bilt or Sta-Bil?
Speaker 2Sta-Bil.
SpeakerSta-Bil.
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerSo I'll run the Sta-Bil, and then I've... Yeah, I'll just disconnect the, the fuel line and then just try to run it out-
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakeras much as I can. Yeah, that's a big one. That seems to help.
Speaker 2That's a big one.
SpeakerAnd then I've, I've kinda learned to take it apart, too, 'cause there's been a time where I'm like on a weekend or I'm trying to go out hunting and, and I, I think I had Travis show me, too. I'm like, "Dude, what gets clogged on these things?" Yeah. You know, and you take that carburetor apart and And then I think I took just some carburetor cleaner and kind of sprayed it out and seemed to, seemed to work. Got it back up-
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakergoing at least. Yep. So.
Speaker 2Yeah, some of the newer, uh, we- they've- we've been fuel injected for about the last eight years or so, seven, eight years.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2And that's, uh, helped a lot with, with those kinds of problems. Okay. Um, it's not nearly as, as bad, but there's, you know, you, you still get that stuff in the injectors and- With
Speakerthe fuel?
Speaker 2Okay fuel pumps and all that stuff, but.
SpeakerSo even if y- so e- so even if an injected fuel in- fuel injected motor- Mm-hmm is that the word I'm thinking for?
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerYou still recommend putting Sta-Bil in those ones- Definitely also? Definitely. Okay.
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerOkay, that's good to know. Tell us the, about, um, Excel Boats and Muddy- Mud Buddy Motors and, um, I don't know. I... Tell us a little bit about them.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, so I, I basically started working at Mud Buddy back in 2001. Um-
SpeakerWhere is Mud Buddy headquarters? Is it in Utah? It's
Speaker 2in West Jordan, Utah.
SpeakerIt is Utah. Yep. Okay. Yep. Okay.
Speaker 2Yep. The, the guy that started it, Glenn Foreman, um, it, it kind of started, he, he's been, he's a duck hunter as well. Okay. Hunted a lot out on the Great Salt Lake and had, you know, some of those boats that you're talking about, just a, a cheap boat. Mm-hmm. Um, but wanted to get to some of those places that nobody else could get to. Mm-hmm. Super shallow water, so he contacted Go Devil. Uh, Go Dev- He, he wanted to be a dealer for them. Mm-hmm. He said, uh, "Get one down here. I want it for myself, and, and- Mm-hmm you know, while I'm at it, I'll, I'll sell them to other people." Uh, the, the owner did not wanna do that. Hmm. Did not want any more dealers. Didn't wanna do that, so-
SpeakerInteresting
Speaker 2Glen being the- Didn't
Speakerwanna make more money, huh?
Speaker 2One... Bad mistake because- Yeah,
Speakerbad mistake
Speaker 2because Glen's a guy that- I'll build
Speakermy own.
Speaker 2Exactly. Yep, so, uh, within a week or two he had one in his garage, and you know, just scrap steel and welding- Mm-hmm it together and putting a, a, a cheap Kohler engine on it, and-
SpeakerHmm
Speaker 2off, off it went.
SpeakerHow long ago was that?
Speaker 2That was in the early '90s. Roughly. '92,
Speaker93. Okay.
Speaker 2Yep. Um, yeah, right in that timeframe, and just started to build one at a time out of his garage, uh, for the first, you know, four or five years. Mm-hmm. Um, had one guy start helping him in, in the garage, and they started kicking him out, and, uh, it ju- you know, it's just snowball from there. Hmm. Started getting dealers and, and now people are calling him, asking him if they could be a dealer.
SpeakerThat's awesome, man. How many dealerships are... Do you know how many Mud Buddy dealers there are? Right
Speaker 2around 120.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerAre they all over the United States now?
Speaker 2Uh, mostly. You know, there's not very many in the West, but, uh, most of them are in the, in the Southeast.
SpeakerOh, really?
Speaker 2Yeah. Yep.
SpeakerHuh.
Speaker 2I mean, that... When you think about it- All the marsh and- that's where the shallow water is.
SpeakerYeah. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I guess the West, yeah, you're not... You just have more rivers and...
Speaker 2Yeah. Yep. And that was kind of Mud Buddy. Um, so a- around 2003, '4, um-
SpeakerWhat did you do for them?
Speaker 2What? Oh, I, I did everything. Um- Okay I started as, as putting them in crates. Okay. That was for Mud Buddy. Um, and that's, that was my first job there, was, you know- Okay crating motors, shipping them across the country.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2And I'm the type of guy that, you know, I, I'll, I'll get that taken care of. I'll figure out how to do that, and then I'd put my head over the fence and see what the guy next to me is doing.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2And I wanna learn- Can I learn it all? I wanna learn how, what he's doing and how that works, so- Mm-hmm I just, I kept going from, from, you know, station to station on the assembly line.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Learned it all. Um, and, you know, I, I- at that point I could pretty much do anything in the shop. Mm-hmm. And, um, started doing sales. Okay. And at, at that time there was only one salesperson, and he was, you know, uh, he was too busy for, for the, for it. So I started taking on some of the sales and with the boats and the motors. Mm-hmm. And, um-
SpeakerSo have they always been Excel, Excel boats in Mudbuggy or did they
Speaker 2us- Uh, right about then, the, was
Speakerwhen- 'Cause they sell their motor to anyone, right? Yeah. You can put it on any boat you want, essentially. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2Um, we were just buying boats from all sorts of different manufacturers at that point.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Uh, Excel being one of them.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2And they had a hurricane-- uh, no, excuse me, a tornado. Um, there was, uh, an F4 tornado at the plant in Arkansas. Uh, I don't remember the exact year, but it, right again, it was 2002, '3. This is
Speakerthe Excel?
Speaker 2Yes.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Yep. So- Is
Speakerthat why they named it the F4?
Speaker 2Yes.
SpeakerOh, really?
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerLearning something here. This is cool.
Speaker 2Yep. So there was a hur- a tornado there, wiped out the whole factory. I mean, sent boat holes, like, I, I-- they found parts like 40 miles away.
SpeakerHoly cow.
Speaker 2Um, so-
SpeakerWhen was this,
Speaker 2roughly? 2004-ish.
SpeakerWow.
Speaker 2R- right around there, give or take a year. Where was that at?
SpeakerS- what
Speaker 2state? In Arkansas.
SpeakerArkansas.
Speaker 2Okay. Yep, in Arkansas. So, uh- The, the owner then was talking to Glenn, and he, he w- he wasn't sure that he was gonna continue. He thought just was kinda gonna- Mm-hmm shelf the whole thing. And Glenn went in and bought the, all the stuff that had survived, machinery and, and some- Mm-hmm of the aluminum and some of the hulls that had survived, and just, just took over the company and, um, started-
SpeakerGlenn with Mud Buddy?
Speaker 2Yes, the owner of Mud Buddy.
SpeakerSo he owns Excel-
Speaker 2Mm-hmm
Speakertoo.
Speaker 2Yep,
Speakercorrect. Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2Yep, correct.
SpeakerOh, cool.
Speaker 2Yep, so he bought Excel, and then, um, for the first 10 years of Excel it was just duck boats. Mm-hmm. You know, the, uh, ref- several different models and refining them and, and getting- Mm-hmm it to where it is now.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Uh, but you're right. Yeah, the F4 is named after the- Hmm the, the, uh, tornado there.
SpeakerYeah. What's the most popular Excel duck boat?
Speaker 2Uh, it's probably that shallow water F4. Um- Is
Speakerit the 1864? Is that what-
Speaker 21854 is, is gonna be- 54. I
Speakerthink that's what mine is-
Speaker 2Yeah, it is
Speakerthe 54, right? Yep. 1854, yeah.
Speaker 2Yep, there's 51s and there are 60s. Uh- Okay 51s are a little narrow, a little tippy. Mm-hmm. Uh, they perform well. Uh, and then the 60 is just a little bit too wide. You start to lose some performance. Um-
SpeakerMore drag on the water- Right and, uh, surface area, yeah.
Speaker 2Exactly.
SpeakerHmm. Yeah, I love that 1854. That's been... And I think mine's the 5500 motor. Mm-hmm. Is, is that the Black Death? Is that- Yeah is that what it's called?
Speaker 2Yeah, well yours is the- Is that the name of it? yours is actually the BAMF.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2With, you know, the- Okay.
SpeakerI see. I see what it stands for. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2Um, but there, there's y- there's all sorts of different models, but, but yours is basically as, as most, as much horsepower as y- as we build in a carbureted motor. It's got everything. Okay.
SpeakerYeah. It gets going pretty fast, man. You get two or three people in there, it rips along pretty good. So now they have the, the, the carbure- not the carb, the fuel injected. Is it the 4500? 5400
Speaker 2is, is kinda the baddest model that we have now. Oh,
Speakerokay.
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerWasn't it a 40-something for a
Speaker 2little while? It started, it started as, as a 40. All of them are f- uh, stock 40 from Briggs Stratton. Okay. And then we take all sorts of different performance parts, cams, pistons, rods, roller rockers, uh, all sorts of different things- Mm-hmm modify the cylinder heads to get more power from 'em.
SpeakerOkay. So the, the, the one that most guys are buying is a 50- 5400, yep 5400. Yep. And it has reverse too, right?
Speaker 2Yeah, yep.
SpeakerYeah, mine doesn't have reverse. That would be pretty sweet to... Is that reverse Does that work pretty good-
Speaker 2Yeah to pull you out of places? It's not, it's doesn't work as good as a, as, as a regular outboard on, on Mercury. Sure. Yeah. Uh, the, the angle that the prop is at is different. Okay. So it works, it works great. Um, it's not gonna, it, it's not gonna work quite as good as a regular outboard, but, um, you know- Still gives you reverse pulling off the dock- or picking up decoys-
SpeakerYeah
Speaker 2or, you know- Oh, yeah all those kinds of things, it's super convenient.
SpeakerYeah. It's, I guess that's true. When you're picking up decoys and you miss them, you gotta go do another loop around. Right. Or, yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2So
SpeakerI could see how that could, yeah, like, s- well, like you said, it's not as, it's not as good as an outboard, but it, it has its place- Yep where it's still beneficial. Yep. Doesn't hurt to have that reverse.
Speaker 2For sure.
SpeakerCool. What's some of the, um, I know you guys have put in some new y- um, oh, let's talk about the boats, I guess. Um- Okay, the mo- the, what are some of the, I guess, the accessories? I mean, it's probably all... Is it on the we- is it on your website, or where do people go to look at what's they can put on their boat or?
Speaker 2Yeah, we've got tons of that stuff on our website. Basically anything that we can ship.
SpeakerAll
Speaker 2right,
SpeakerExcel website or?
Speaker 2It, it's on ours, backwaterperformance.com.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Um, and w- we accessorize for Mud Buddy and Excel and any other kind of brand of duck boat. Okay. Um, but, but all sorts of different accessories, uh, different flooring and lighting and seating and- Yeah um, stereos and grab bars and covers and all, all that kind of thing.
SpeakerYeah. Yeah, I probably don't need to go into the details of all... 'Cause there's just so many different configurations. What are, I guess, what are some of the most, maybe I'll say, most popular configurations people put in, like, like a gun, gun holder I assume would
Speaker 2be one of them? Yeah, yeah. So, uh, we, we have, we usually order these boats, you know, four to six months in advance.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2And so they're... Sometimes they're sold by then, but a lot of times I'm ordering a stock boat.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2And so we've found that the most popular and, um, the, the most utility, uh, options are the, the headlight, LED front headlight. Mm-hmm. Um, spud poles. Uh, instead of using a, a anchor on a rope and throwing it out and getting all muddy, they have poles that you stick into the mud for- Are those
Speakerthe balance po- Is that, they're kind of a balance pole? Is
Speaker 2that what I'm- Yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of like an anchor base. It's a shallow water anchor. Um, but-
SpeakerIs there slots you just slide- Uh-huh it down through?
Speaker 2Yep. Yeah, that's- They're, yep, you've got a hole in- Okay. They call 'em a spud
Speakerpole.
Speaker 2Yep. Okay. Um, gun boxes is, is real popular. You know, throw your guns and any other kind of- Mm-hmm you know, whatever, life jackets or emergency kit, tool kit. Mm-hmm. Put them in there. Um, the, something that's been way popular over the last year or so is, uh, the EVA foam flooring. Oh, yeah. Uh, it looks cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, it quiets the boat down in the waves. It makes it so it, the dog's not slipping around in the boat. Yeah. Um, it, it doesn't freeze. I love
Speakerthat stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. If you're using it in the summer, fishing or whatever, it's not hot on your feet. Mm-hmm. All, all that kind of stuff.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerYeah. It's, it's cool, like, where they have the flat decks on the front that, like you say, they're super just, they're good for fishing. They're like a bass boat, only skeet on the front of them. And, and they come... I think I was actually watching on your Instagram just the other, the other day, you were ta- Don't they all come, like- With a fa- like a trolling motor mount or something Mm-hmm Does that come standard or, or- Yeah or the wiring or something like that?
Speaker 2The wiring and the trolling motor mount come standard. Um, and then, yeah, if, if, if you want us to put an actual trolling motor on there, we can do that too. You
Speakercan do that too. Yeah. So if I wanna get an Excel boat for this season, is, is that even an option? How long does it... Tell me, talk to me about the process and what that looks like.
Speaker 2Sure.
SpeakerYou know?
Speaker 2Yeah. Right now, um, so we're- we've got a bo- a load of boats being built today in, at the factory in Arkansas. Um, some of them are sold, about a third of them are sold. Okay. Um, and they're gonna be delivered sometime in September. Okay. Um, by the time they get here, they'll all be sold.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Um, especially this time of year, you know.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2Um, but I, like I said, I ordered them all basically with those options that I talked about, and that's just... Anything else on top of that we can add. Um-
SpeakerOh, you can add on aft-
Speaker 2Yep later. Yep. Okay. Yeah, so we, we kinda picked the most popular, um, built-in options.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Um, the, the fuel tanks and the, you know, the- Mm-hmm the construction of the boat. And then when it gets here, if guys wanna add a blind, if they want that- Mm-hmm trolling motor, if they want a stereo, if they want different seats, then that stuff we can add once they get here.
SpeakerYou guys put stereos in them too, huh?
Speaker 2Oh, you name it. Yeah.
SpeakerCheck it out. That's awesome, man. Yeah, I see... I need to, I need to trick mine out a little more. There's the, that you guys put the lights in it. You know- Oh, yeah they light them up like crazy- Oh, yeah and all. I mean, they, you make them look pretty dang, pretty dang cool. So what's a, what, what's kind of the base, kind of the base model with that motor kinda run with the, the stuff you just talked about, kinda ordering the standard stuff, what's that usually run and what, what are you gonna maybe max out at? If you tricked everything out, what are you gonna be at roughly?
Speaker 2Yeah, so if you were just going to get that, that 1854 Pro Hole with a 40 horsepower Mud Buddy, um, you're going to be somewhere around 33,000.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Um, that's on a trailer. That's, that's ready to go.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Um, but then if you wanted, you know, the kitchen sink, ev- all the options, all the accessories, blinds, flooring, a stereo, seating and everything, you know, you're gonna be low 40s. Okay. 41, 42, 43, somewhere right in there.
SpeakerOkay. Have they- Everything's increased, right? Pri- prices of everything has gone up. If, if... How much have they increased the last, I don't know, f- four or five years?
Speaker 2So there was
Speakerjust- Five grand? Five, six grand, would you say? More than that?
Speaker 2Uh, th- th- just this last, in the last month, they just increased quite a bit. Okay. Um, and a lot of that, unfortunately, is all this tariff stuff, you know? Yeah. The, the price of aluminum has gone up insane. Mm-hmm. Um, and everything, price of everything's gone up. Sure. If it, if everything gets, um, delivered to somebody and everybody with, with a truck- It's a
Speakerripple effect. Costs of-
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakeremployees have gone up. Yep. Costs of everything. Fuel and- Yeah. We had to increase our training prices 'cause everything's gone up. Yeah.
Speaker 2I mean,
Speakerthe cost of labor.
Speaker 2Yeah. Um, so I mean, just in the last month, I mean, shoot, they've gone up almost 20%. Okay. Um, but, um, they've been pretty steady over the, you know, on- before that.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2Um, everything's been fairly steady, you know, maybe, maybe a $500 increase here or there. Mm-hmm. But yeah, they've, they've gone up quite a bit just, just barely.
SpeakerSo with your parts and stuff, I know you guys do a lot of shipping, um, out online, right? Um, what, where, where... People just go to your website to find the different parts, and then you guys can ship them out, right? Or-
Speaker 2Yep, yep. Backwaterperformance.com, all the, all the accessories and, uh, replacement parts and performance parts and- Mm-hmm props and blinds and all that stuff is on there. Yep, throw it in a box and, and be on your door in a few days.
SpeakerIf people want to... If, if I want to, um, buy a boat, is, is, do you generally-- If you're not paying cash for it, do you guys offer financing? Do you generally go through your own credit union and just bring it? What, what do you, what do you guys-- What's the offering there?
Speaker 2It's, yeah, it's, uh, uh, we do offer in-house financing. Uh, the, the bank that we use is not actually a bank. It's kind of a broker. They just shop for the best rates and terms and things like that.
SpeakerOh, like an auto loan pla- like a used car dealership. Yeah. I, I, you'd, you'd send, you'd send in your application and it shoots out- Right to a bunch of different banks- Right or credit unions.
Speaker 2Yeah. And I mean, I've found that that's been the best way to go- Mm-hmm um, as far as rates and terms. But, uh, there's, there's definitely a lot of guys that are just, you know, writing a check too.
SpeakerMm-hmm. Um- That's awesome. Trying to Anything else in, about boats that the audience should know or prep or
Speaker 2I mean, well, I, I guess what I could, you know, kind of tie it in what, with, with you was, you know, for, for the dog aspect of it. Yeah. Um, things that guys don't think about, uh, w- with a boat and a dog specifically is if you're hunting out of a blind, uh, the, the dog doesn't wanna sit inside the blind where they can't see. Mm-hmm. And every single retrieve's a blind retrieve. Yeah. I'm
Speakerglad you brought this up. Yeah.
Speaker 2So what I'll do is I'll, I'll put the blind, uh, I'll, I'll leave a bunch of the front deck open. Mm-hmm. About two, three feet of the front deck open. That's what I do too. And then I'll, I use a, a, a commercial dog blind. Mm-hmm. You know, a, a Tangle Free or whoever you wanna use. Yep. Like a
Speakerfield blind almost.
Speaker 2Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I'll put that right on the bow of the boat and cover it with, with sheets of extra grass and things like that to hide it. Mm-hmm. But, you know, I want my dog to, to see where the bird goes down. Sure. Not only because it's more efficient and, and, you know, it's, I'm probably gonna have a better- More fun for them. Yeah, yeah. The, the dog doesn't, dog doesn't wanna be- Mm-hmm you know, laying in the bottom of the blind waiting for the gun to go off.
SpeakerDo you hunt p- off the po- your dog off the pod much or are you usually a bow guy?
Speaker 2No, I don't. It's always on the bow. Mm-hmm. Uh, I put a ladder off of, off the bow and have him up on the front. Um, it's just, I don't know, it w- works better for me that way.
SpeakerOkay. What ladder, what ladder do you like?
Speaker 2Uh, we I, I use a Rigga Wright one. Um, theirs is pretty nice.
SpeakerRigga Wright?
Speaker 2Rigga Wright.
SpeakerOh, Rigga Wright. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Uh, but there's a bunch of them out there.
SpeakerYeah. Okay. Yeah, I can see. I need-- I don't have a ladder, so what I'll usually do if I hunt the bow, they'll come up on the pod, go through the boat, which sometimes they get water over
Speaker 2on everything
Speakerand then- Yeah.
Speaker 2Yes. Shake
Speakerit off on you then they go on the side. Knock your gun over. I need to run the ladder. Yeah, I need to pick up a ladder for my boat.
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerThat, that seems like the smart way to do it. So lots of times I actually work, 'cause I'm u- it's my boat, so I'm usually driving the boat, so I'm in the back, and so I work my dog off the pod, I would say more, most of the time, and then they just come up, deliver the bird, then, then sit on the pod there. Mm-hmm. You know? And that, that works, that works good too.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerIf you're hunting with a buddy I could, you know, put them on the front or the back or...
Speaker 2Right. Yeah, the I've, I've tried the pod thing, you know. I, I, I don't know about you, but I'm always hunting pressured ducks, and the more- Mm-hmm I can get the dog hid, the better.
SpeakerYeah, it's true, in the pod you can't really... Yeah, I'll kinda like put, I have a, the blind extends kinda over the mo- We'll have a boat motor cover.
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
SpeakerUm, and then I, I'll kind of put, yeah, I just brush them in as best you can. Occasionally I'll kind of put them back behind the motor, you know, but then they can't see as good like- Yeah you're talking. But I guess I'll, my dog's all handles, but it's better to, like you say, for him to, to mark the fall. So that makes sense. So I guess what we're saying, folks, if you are hunt- If you get a boat, it sounds like running a ladder, just like the setup you had with the blind on the front, sounds like that would probably be the, the best option. But-
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakeryou could mix it up.
Speaker 2Yeah, we've, we've set up a lot of blinds for people and, you know- Mm-hmm that's, that's the best way I've found to do it.
SpeakerYeah. Um, yeah, with do- and I guess on the, on that, that talking about dogs, and obviously being the Bird Dog Podcast, but talking all gear and dogs and stuff, I, I always tell people, you know, train f- train for the hunts. Like, train how you're gonna hunt. So, you know, don't take your dog out on your boat, you know, opening morning and it's never been on your boat, it's never been, never seen a s- you know, how to get into the boat or working out the blind. Like, I always tell people, you know, take your dog out, work them off the boat.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerS- set it up just like you're gonna hunt, right? So, and in training that's what we try to do, but you're gonna hunt maybe a little different. You know, I remember we went and did that layout hunt. Uh-huh. You kinda had Tes- Tessa. Tess or Tessa? Tess. Tess, yeah. Tess, um, had her back on a, you had her on a little place mat or something, right?
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerWhat did you use? It was,
Speaker 2it's like- I just build these little custom aluminum, uh, it's just a little
Speakerplatform.
Speaker 2Little platform, yeah. It's got real short legs that just push into the mud. It was
Speakerpretty much on the ground almost though, right?
Speaker 2I just put it, I, I s- push it into the wa- in, into the water, into the mud is j- so it's just an inch above the surface.
SpeakerMm-hmm. And
Speaker 2then, yeah, she just lays right on top of that.
SpeakerYeah. I mean, a- and it worked good, and I'm sure you had practice with her, I'm sure, on that. But she- Oh, yeah yeah, you just told her place and that was still even some of her beginning hunts I remember back then. Yep. And, uh, but she was back, what was she, back 10 yards behind us- Mm-hmm in the, in the weeds or something. Mm-hmm. And, and so she was out of sight and the birds were coming in, we were shooting them, and then you just remote send her on her name and- Yeah it
Speaker 2worked
Speakerout good. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. I do that a lot with her. Uh, probably more often than not is set her up on some kind of little platform- Mm-hmm like that and, um, yeah, she, she knows the program now.
SpeakerYeah. Tell, tell us about your dog. Tell, uh, I, I mean, I can say obviously what we kind of worked with her on and stuff, but how... Is she doing awesome still?
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, amazing. I mean, uh, uh- I
Speakermean, you've put a lot of birds on her since we've trained her and stuff.
Speaker 2Tons, yep.
SpeakerMaturity and-
Speaker 2I was, I was worried about getting a Golden for reasons why people worry about getting a Golden. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the bird thing and the, you know, um- Not, not being a lab.
SpeakerYeah
Speaker 2You know, not, not being just a mindless- Maybe
Speakera lower drive or- Yeah whatever it may be. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. But I'll, I'll tell you what, I, I w- I will never have another lab.
SpeakerYeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2Not because
Speakerthey're- Why? Tell us, tell us, yeah, tell us your why.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, it's not because the lab, my labs haven't done what I want them to do, but the, but she does it with style, you know? Mm-hmm. She... I, I think she does it... She, she fetches bir- all the, every lab I've ever had fetches birds because they wanna do it.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2They're, they're shaking and whining because they want to fetch that bird so bad.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2She does it because I want her to do it.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2And not nece- she, she does, she loves it. Yeah. She loves it. And, but, but she's, sh- you know, she do- she does it 'cause I want her to do it.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. She's still birdie and, and chases them around and things like that. But, um, around the house is just the goofiest, silliest- You know, w- we're all night long around the house we're laughing at her 'cause she's, she's got three tennis balls in her mouth- Mm-hmm or, or, you know, just being crazy and silly. So just, just such a cool dog.
SpeakerYeah. Yeah. What time? You gotta be out pretty soon, right?
Speaker 2Um,
Speakeryeah. Sorry, folks, we're just, we... I, I put Glade and this behind 'cause I had another-
Speaker 2I'm good podcast recording. I got it. I, I'm good.
SpeakerHow many more minutes we got
Speaker 2about? Yeah. We'll, uh,
Speakerwe'll 10 minutes or so. We're okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. We're getting here close. But, um, yeah, with the golden retrievers, you know, I got into them probably 9 years ago, 9, 10 years ago, and they're, they're just, they're something different to look at too, you know? I love the classic black lab, and I still have them, and I, and I love my labs and, but the goldens, you know, we've gotten more into. And it's kinda fun, too, 'cause the, in the golden world they're not all bred... They're, there's less good hunting goldens than there are good hunting labs, right? Sure, sure. Like, they're not as common. And so for me, it's kind of almost like a challenge, like trying to breed or promote, like something that's not as... There's tons of master hunter labs, you know? But there's like, I know in the state of Utah I c- I can think of like, you know, I have a master hunter golden and, um, Boss is his name, and then, you know, a bunch of seniors. But I can think of like, honestly, like less than five master hunter goldens- Mm that live in Utah.
Speaker 2Sure.
SpeakerSo there's not-- They are a little trickier to train. They have, they have a different personality Um, but when you get a good one, they're just, they're just fun. They're just like, they seem, to me, they even, they seem to ha- like to even pack, they love to pack stuff in their mouth. Like that, I don't know, you've seen that probably- Oh my God, yeah with Tess. Yeah.
Speaker 2Like,
Speakerour labs, labs love to go get stuff and drop it and still like to carry stuff, but the goldens are like, man, they love having crap in their mouth.
Speaker 2Yes, she does.
SpeakerSo, I don't know. Is that what you see-
Speaker 2Oh, yeah see at your house? Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, she'll put three tennis balls in her mouth all the time. Yeah. As m- as much as she can fit. She doesn't... I- if you call her name, she runs around the house picking stuff up before she can come and- Mm-hmm get petted.
SpeakerThat's awesome. Yeah. They're so, they're so fun. Yeah. That's the thing with dogs. There's just, hunting with dogs is, as you know, that's, it's, it's half, it's half or almost, for me at least, and I'm sure it's you, is like the experience, you know?
Speaker 2100%.
SpeakerLike, shooting the ducks is awesome, but walking out there and, I don't know. For me, I've like, and I see people walking out and picking up ducks, I'm just like, "That just looks wrong."
Speaker 2Yeah. They're, they're missing- They're missing the boat they're, they're missing so much of the, of the experience.
SpeakerThe experience, yeah. Yeah. Have you seen, by the way, have you seen that new, it's called like Fetch It, that robot that's been on-
Speaker 2Yes
SpeakerInstagram a
Speaker 2little bit? Yes.
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 2Good luck. I
Speakerthought, I'm like, "That's interesting." I'm like, "Eh, yeah." I'm like, and, and, and I, and they are. To give them, they're not like, "Hey, we're not trying to replace the dog," you know? But I guess if you don't have a dog, and you're maybe hunting the Snake River or something, fast blowing maybe, I don't know. I'd be curious, I'd be curious to see what that looks like. Yeah. You know? But-
Speaker 2Good luck.
SpeakerYeah. It's an interesting... Being a dog trainer, I'm like, "Well, I don't know." Yeah. Right. You know? But it's, it's funny to see the I don't know. It'd be interesting to see if you see any of those robots cruising around- in the, in the marsh, you know?
Speaker 2Yes. 2026, I would not be surprised to-
SpeakerYeah, yeah
Speaker 2ChatGPT duck fetching.
SpeakerYeah. Do you remember, so with Tess, I remember she w- she had a little funny thing going on that we worked through, and it w- she's, she's too smart for her own good is what, what it is. Like, some dogs, like, they're just like, they don't think, you know? And they're just like, "Holy cow, it's w- a bird," or whatever. And, um, she's super intelligent, and we were working her, and she'd pick up teal, right?
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerShe'd pick up teal no problem. Then we'd th- And I'm like, "All right. Let's check to see what she's doing." So this was... Was this before we force fetched her?
Speaker 2No. This was, I mean, she was basically finished. Uh- And,
Speakerand
Speaker 2she was just- uh, not, not all, I mean, not all the way, but, but she was... You know, this was after- Some
Speakerwork you had done, though, 'cause I hadn't- Yeah worked her through duck, 'cause we would've seen that. So it was before, or some, or some work you'd done, or you bought her a little started, or-
Speaker 2Yeah
SpeakerJed had started her a little bit, or-
Speaker 2Yep
Speakeris that kinda?
Speaker 2Yeah, so-
SpeakerI'm trying to refresh my memory
Speaker 2um, I did a little bit of stuff, and then, um, I, I brought her to you, I think, and you bas- I th- I think you just force fetched her or d- didn't really work on any of that. But, uh, the first few times I took her out hunting was super early season when teal are here.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2And no problem. She'd go out and fetch the teal. Yeah. You know, no big deal. But then the first, you know, full, big duck I shot, I don't know, m- a mallard or, or pintail or something-
SpeakerMm-hmm
Speaker 2and went out, sniffed it, turned back around.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2Didn't wanna pick it up.
SpeakerYeah. Did it fl- did it f- do you remember if it fluttered or anything and kinda threw her off? I don't think
Speaker 2so.
SpeakerOr just might've
Speaker 2been the size.
SpeakerI don't think so. Yeah. She's like, "Nah, I'm not sure about that."
Speaker 2Yeah. Didn't- Yeah uh, maybe we trained too much with teal. I did, I trained too much with teal with her. Mm-hmm. And yeah, w- went to pick up the first big duck and just didn't want anything to do with it.
SpeakerYeah. And I remember Glade told me, he's like, "Yeah, she would pick up teal all day." And so I was like, "Well, let's see if we can trick her." So we threw, like, some teal. Sure enough, she picked them out. We threw, like, a shoveler, which isn't that much bigger, and she went out and was like, "Nope." Yeah. And I'm like, "Okay. All right, we got a little challenge here." So, um- But I remember working through that. Um, I can't remember exact- I mean, it was the combination of probably force fetch and just confidence building- Yep that we kind of worked with her on. But, and then, dude, and then you're sending... And I remember, I don't know, I don't think you'd put her on geese or we'd had her. And I'm like, "I'm gonna see if I can get her on." And I remember I, I had to do a little force work- Mm-hmm but she responded really well to it. And then once she realized she could grab a goose, she's like, "Oh, yeah, I can do this." Yeah. And then she was... And then you're like... And then I think that year you sent me a picture of her retrieving swans.
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
SpeakerSo.
Speaker 2Yep.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. Doesn't even, she doesn't even think about it anymore, just-
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2Yep, goes out and picks anything
Speakerup. It's kind of like a proud dad moment. I'm like, "That's cool we got to work with her." Like, you know, help her get through that, you know, that, that challenge of whatever she had in her head and... That's the fun thing about dog training is, for me, is, is that, is kind of the dogs are a little chall- like, outside of it you're like, "Why, why are you thinking this?" Or, "What are you doing?" And then, "How do we overcome that and build that confidence and, and make them a good," you know, the dog that you, that you want, you know? But-
Speaker 2Yeah
Speakerbesides that, she trained out. She, she was really cons- I know we did help out with it. We did the handling training on her. Mm-hmm. And she... If you had some fun blinds with her. Oh, yeah. Some big bl- some... If you had any big ones, you're like-
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean- "Dude, that was awesome" but this, this last year we were on the Great Salt Lake, uh, uh, hunting teal in the flats. Mm-hmm. Um, and perception is crazy out there. Mm-hmm. It l- y- everything that looks like it's, well, it's let's say 100 yards away is actually about 300 yards away. Yeah. It, because there's no real point of reference. Uh, everything's so flat. There's no trees to go
Speakeroff
Speaker 2or
Speakerany- Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2Um, so anyway, we, uh, a big flock of teal comes in, uh, probably at least 100. We drop six or seven out of it. Mm-hmm. And, um, she goes and fetches them all and, and, uh, a couple of minutes later somebody says, "Oh, shoot. There's still one out there." Mm-hmm. "Way out there." Mm-hmm. And it was still alive. And it was, you know, I don't know, I'd guess it's probably, probably 4 or 500 yards.
SpeakerNice.
Speaker 2And, um, I- Uh, it, it was blind at that point. Yeah, sure. She couldn't see it. Yeah,
Speakeryeah.
Speaker 2And so I, I sent her, and she goes out and gets to about 70, and she's s- Your dog starts getting
Speakersmaller. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2Yeah. She, and j- she's, like, kinda losing confidence at that point. Yeah. Like, "What are you putting me out here for?"
SpeakerThis is farther than normal.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, send her again, send her... Uh, I had to send her about three times and, um, you know, back, and finally she sees it, and it, it had to have been 4 or 500 yards. Was it
Speakercrippled?
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerOkay,
Speaker 2yeah. Yep. And then once you get out there that far, it's pretty deep, and it's salty. Oh, okay. And it, you know... And so she, she had to chase it out there swimming.
SpeakerOh, okay.
Speaker 2And yeah, it was, she was, she was gone for, I don't know, half an hour by the time- That's so awesome she finally got back. And yeah, didn't give... She will not give up on a crippled bird.
SpeakerThat
Speaker 2is so cool. So, yep. So that, that can be scary at times, too, when we're on, you know, like Snake River situations, but-
SpeakerYeah
Speaker 2um, yeah, that was, that was definitely one of the ones I'll remember.
SpeakerThat was, that was a highlight, a highlight bird. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it's so cool when you get those far. It's fun when you... It's, when they get far enough out, and then sometimes they'll catch a little wing flick of that bird, you know, a cripple or something, then they like, "Oh, there it is." Oh, now I know we got one. And then it just totally and they, and like, "There we go." Yeah. And it's... I had an awesome one this year. We were hunting up in Idaho on this little private lake, and we sailed this mallard clear across this water bod- It was probably, like, I was kind of in the end of it, but there was a spring that came in, and it was probably- I don't know, probably 100, 100 yards wide, the water, and then the bird hit like another 70, 80 yards into the snow and it kind of speared down in the snow, you know? And it was-- I, I didn't know if it was dead or crippled, but anyways, I li- I lined the dog up. I was about, you know, 10 yards from the bank, lined her up just really nice back and she drove, hit the water just sk- she stayed a nice steady line, crossed the whole, the whole lake, you know, hit the bank and didn't really start hunting the bank. Just trusted, you know, through that training and then she got up and started just going out in the snow and then that, then that mallard like you see that wing, wing flick, you know- Mm and then it jumped up and tried to take off. Oh, and then that, that jet, the jets kick in- Yeah, yeah, yeah you know, and they chase them down. It was just, it was cool. That's, that's the fun thing about dog like when you get a dog to your level, like Tessa's level or a dog that handles, it's like I tell everyone like you'll never go back once you have a dog at that level. Oh,
Speaker 2for
Speakersure. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's just pl- I- it's just a different, you know, it's such a fun game and the teamwork and the companionship you have, you know, with them. I had a client who was-- it was pretty funny. He had a dog that, um, that we taught to handle and he's like, "Oh," Mike's probably, he's been on the podcast actually. He's probably in his late 60s, you know? But he was like he j- he just goes he's, he was like almost mad when he realized a dog could handle. Like he, and he didn't have this his whole life and he's a hardcore hunter, you know? Yeah. And he hunts probably, I mean he hunts um, I mean at least a few times a week. Mm-hmm. You know, he's retired and he goes to Canada multiple times and but, uh, so it's, it's a lot of people it's interesting and, and the people that are listening to this podcast they're obviously into do- they're into the stuff we're into. Mm-hmm. But a lot of people like don't even know what force fetch is- Sure or whatever, you know? Sure. And so, and so to have a dog in that senior hunter master level, it takes a lot of time and if you're paying someone it does take a lot of money too, but obviously it just depends what you, you want in life, right? Yep. But, uh, it's just fun to have them, uh, like at that, at, at that level. I'm trying to think where I kind of lost my train of thought when I was... But oh, I, I know what I was saying. It's, it's... You're, you're, you're kind of an upper percentile person when you have a dog that handles. For
Speaker 2sure.
SpeakerSo it's, it's pretty special. And I remember the first time I saw a dog run a true blind retrieve years and years ago on water, and the guy blew the whistle and the dog s- swam and looked at him, you know, sat there and looked at him on water, and then he cast. And I was just like, it's kind of like that experience shooting that first duck, my jaw just dropped. I'm like, "Whoa, how do you do that?" You know?
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerAnd now I've been training for 20 years, and it, now to me it's like, "Oh, you just do this and this and this," and that's what they do, you know.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerBut it's, it's pretty, it's pretty special, the whole experience.
Speaker 2I, I sometimes use it as a party trick, you know? We're out with just- whatever at the lake camping with friends or something. Yeah. And nothing, has nothing to do with hunting or anything. They've got all their, you know, poodles and, and- Mm spaniels or whatever they've got out there. And, um, the... We'll, I'll throw a ball, and I'll make sure that the, that she can't see it.
SpeakerMm-hmm.
Speaker 2And, you know, we'll all, uh, handle her to it, and people are- Yeah just like, "I didn't know a dog could do that." Could
Speakerdo that.
Speaker 2That's what they usually say, right? You know, they, it was, it was hard for me to get my dog to learn how to pee outside. You know, so, so- Yeah yeah, it's, it's, it is a whole different, uh... A- and if it's, if you're a waterfowler, if you're a, especially one that's, you know, into it hardcore, I, I don't understand how you can't-
SpeakerYeah
Speaker 2have a dog that at, at least, you know, has, has some of that training.
SpeakerSome ability to go out there and pick up your birds. Yeah. Awesome. Well, we better wrap it up, Glade. Um, tell us, tell our audience, thanks so much for coming down here- Of course driving down here and, and meeting and, and jumping on the podcast. Tell us where they can find you on, on all your platforms.
Speaker 2Yeah. So, uh, we've got, um, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all that, Backwater Performance. Um, backwaterperformance.com is where all, you know, our store is. Um, and then, you know, Mudbuddy and, uh, xl.com as well.
SpeakerOkay. Tell us where they c- where your store is.
Speaker 2Uh, my actual physical
Speakerlocation or- I mean, it's on your, obviously your website, but, uh-
Speaker 2Yeah. My, my, my storefront's in, in Orem, Utah.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Um, yep, we've got, uh, lots of boats there people can come check out and, and all the parts and accessories too. Do
Speakeryou guys ship boats?
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. We ship them- Okay anywhere in the country.
SpeakerSo they can, they don't necessarily have to come into the store. You can do it all over the phone, online, whatever, and then you- Yep can ship it out to them.
Speaker 2Put it right on your doorstep.
SpeakerOkay. Well, folks, um, we're gonna go ahead and wrap her up. Uh, ch- if you're looking for top-of-the-line, awesome duck hunting boat, check out the Excel Boat. That's what I have, and Mudbuddy Motor. They're great companies to work with, and they'll take care of you. And man, you get a, you get a sweet boat and a, a dog on the front that's fully trained-
Speaker 2There
Speakeryou go you're set for life. That's it. What else, what else do you need, right?
Speaker 2I, I don't know what else anybody needs from that.
SpeakerSo all right, folks. Have a great day, and we'll see you in the next podcast.