The Human Story

Self-Awareness- The Inside View

• Lincoln & Shaamiela • Season 1 • Episode 3

Share episode

Send us a text

In this episode of The Human Story brought to you by Yoked Media, we explore the tender and powerful journey of self-awareness. What does it mean to truly know ourselves  beneath the roles, reactions, and routines?

We (Lincoln & Shaamiela) dive into real-life stories and moments that sparked awareness in our own lives, uncovering how self-awareness isn’t a destination but a daily unfolding.

With honesty, curiosity, and a few unexpected turns, we invite listeners to reflect on the stories we tell ourselves… and what happens when we begin to listen more closely.

SPEAKER_01:

You're listening to the Human Story Podcast, conversations on the all-encompassing human experience.

SPEAKER_00:

This is brought to you by Yolk Media.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, greetings, everybody. Shami Laya here.

SPEAKER_00:

Shami, before we start, I know there's a bit of time that happens between these podcasts, but how are things going on your side? Is there anything that you'd like to share? Anything that's really happened in your life that's interesting or just something random?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, it feels like a random thought, but it probably isn't. I hope

SPEAKER_00:

you know the topic you spoke about before when you saw the podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my goodness. Yeah, I mean, there's magic that happens off air. But there's, yeah, I was just, no, just probably what we were reflecting on is that there's so much that happens in between you know, are actually getting to this point in recording these episodes. And we both kind of came in this morning with that realization that life is just happening, you know. And so I'm aware of kind of the season we're in. I'm always aware of that. And then also the time of the year that we're in. And that obviously adds to how we experience everything.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, I mean, just that reflection that we both had that like, gosh, how much stuff happens. But you know what? I mean, there was a part of me as I was just kind of like grabbing my bag as I walked out of the house. I was just so excited because it really, really felt like what we said probably in our first episode, which is that I get to go and play with my friend. And so that was encouraging because like, and then when I got here, it was, you said the exact same thing, which is so much that goes on. And I suppose in some ways, this is what brings a bit of balance.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I completely agree. Because like you say, I mean, for everyone, there's so much strain on... expectations on people and so much to do and you know like you were speaking about and I found it quite interesting you were saying about you know how do you get the best energy out of people male female and I love what you said by the way and you can just share a little bit but for obviously on a male depending what your role is you know in different spheres of life whether it's family work there's a lot of expectations on people we spoke about it as well but I do find that you're right life is so busy and I think the biggest struggle for me is finding the time to actually reflect self reflection because you know having a toddler at home and a busy lifestyle and work and schedule like that. And everyone's got their own schedules. I mean, life is really crazy. But I do find that, you know, if you do make time for self-awareness, some of the practices that go along with that, it actually is really good for you to actually manage that in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01:

So why does it matter? That's the question. And also what is self-awareness? So, yeah, I just kind of like what resonated in my heart as I sat with just kind of the topic again this morning when I was grounding, is that if there ever was a worthy goal for a human being to pursue, it would be self-awareness, you know. There's something about the self-aware individual, you know, who in truth really brings together all parts of themselves and engages with the world from that perspective. There's something about that kind of individual that feels very, I just want to say utopic.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

full and whole is the word that comes to mind and so when i think about you know these a couple of years ago there was so many things that that just popped up you know we always talk about this on social media where you know people were saying this is a superpower that's a superpower everything was just a superpower and the only one that i agreed with was when people said self-awareness was a superpower i don't actually think it's a superpower

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

Because I don't think you need superpowers. But if you need it, go ahead. I just think it's our power, you know. And if you look at the root of the word power, which is Latin, it's potentia, which means to be able. Wow. Right? So that's the root of power. And there's only one reason power exists, and that's for transformation.

SPEAKER_00:

Very true.

SPEAKER_01:

And so… When we think about the self-aware individual, we're thinking about someone who is always open to transformation and who, through the practice of self-awareness, has really transformed themselves and their lives.

SPEAKER_00:

I know we didn't plan this, but I have to touch on a topic or something you just said now, which is quite interesting to me. In a society where we are self-deprecating almost, and we're very aware of the self, and we're almost in many ways selfish, how do difficult it is to have self-awareness, to bring about some of the aspects that, you know, that kind of in spirituality might be aspired to, like humility in that. Because, you know, a lot of people can be self-awareness because I want to model what the world says I should and what social media. It's just interesting that you mentioned that. It's just something that came to mind. But I wonder people's sort of definition of self-awareness, if they believe it's for the self, that it's Self-actualization or is it to make you come to the world as a better human being that interacts with others too? I love what you sent me, by the way, in the week. You sent me a little clip. And I love what he said. Yes. He said that basically when you show up to the best version of you can be, you kind of give permission to others to do the same. So I think the self-awareness for me, like you're saying, potential and kind of growth and power is, is to ensure like, you know, what do I, in my connections with people, what do I allow others to do through my company and them kind of seeing my interactions with them? I know it's kind of like delving a bit deeper, but I just kind of want to bring that to light because I think the self-awareness part, it's important to kind of know that it's not just about selfishness that maybe the world portrays as being self-aware.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And I think you're touching on a point where You know, it's interesting that we call it self-awareness because it is about tuning into the self, right? And so that's what self-awareness does. It creates engagement with the self. And then also, obviously, through that enables growth, right? And so the opposite of that is really very much an egotistical existence where I think selfishness does fit in, which is often a word I don't use, selfish, because I think it's so misunderstood. You know, when people... You know the whole thing. You set boundaries with people or you begin to say no and then all of a sudden you're labeled selfish. That's probably a healthy kind of selfish. But I think what you point on is that egotistical existence. And so self-awareness is about the self and going inward. But in truth, what self-awareness is really doing for you, it is making you a better human being. It's also expanding you beyond yourself. beyond the border of self. And so the truly self-aware individual becomes compassionate

SPEAKER_00:

and

SPEAKER_01:

empathetic and can almost see the essence of everything that surrounds them, whether that's the environment, the people, animals, nature, conversations, why things exist as they do. That is what the truly self-aware individual is able to do. So we're going inward. but we're going inward with the intent of expanding outward. And so that almost just happens by, almost like just by the process of engaging in more self-awareness is what I've noticed is that people will begin to kind of like expand beyond themselves. Yeah, and have more of a concern for the greater world. I

SPEAKER_00:

love that. Self-awareness, I mean, in terms of the brain and consciousness and spirituality, you know, there was a study done, you know, I can't remember the exact names, but basically the study involved 10 different studies of about 5,000 participants. And they've actually come to a conclusion. And I mean, it's a Harvard study. Yeah, study. Study. So it's not just a random study. It kind of holds some gravitas and weight. But what it comes down to is that literally only 10% to 15%, and this is more in a sort of business setting, and I'm sure it will relate to any other sphere of life, but that only 10% to 15% of leaders are actually self-aware. Now, if you think the important aspect that they have to lead people, I mean, that's literally what they do. It's quite scary in some way that we look up to these individuals that, have all this experience, supposed experience, and that can cause bias on its own. And also I think the fact that we believe that because we have this experience that makes us more self-aware. So that's kind of a bias that can exist with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01:

So experience doesn't necessarily mean you're self-aware.

SPEAKER_00:

That's 100% right. Because I've seen leaders in the corporate world that hold very prominent positions. And they kind of use the experience in a way, because when you ask them, like, you know, when they do, let's talk about a practical thing. They would grant a certain, let's say someone is coming to them, they need some leave because there's a personal situation. Now, because they've got a good relationship with this person, maybe they don't really, this person works in their department. They will grant it and they think that's a great decision to make. And yes, they show an empathy because no one knows the situation. But now, that suddenly another person comes to you and asks them the same question, personal matter, for some other reason they don't connect with that person like they would with others because of their time and relationship. They don't allow the same kind of situation they showed for that other individual. People start talking to the organization and cause these rifts and stuff. So self-awareness can actually impact in so many different ways that we're not aware of. And I guess like you're saying, it can cause bias with us at times too.

SPEAKER_01:

It does. And that point actually makes me think about perhaps part of the confusion from that study with people that think that they're self-aware and they actually end up not being that way. Maybe it's the difference between awareness and self-awareness. And there is a difference because the boss from your example to me may have an awareness, you know, but there's a blind spot there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And so that's really what self-awareness brings you to kind of notice is that you notice your blind spots. So essentially we're saying that someone asks you, why do you get angry? Why did you get angry at that? You can be aware that you're angry. Okay. But that's only step one. Yeah. You know, awareness doesn't really, I mean, it's amazing, you know, to be aware, but it really doesn't give you, I think that forward motion that you need if you, if you are growth orientated.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So self-awareness would be you asking yourself why, the questions that is related to anger.

SPEAKER_00:

What

SPEAKER_01:

do I notice about my anger? When do I get angry? What is it about this interaction that angers me? Where do I sense that? How does my body feel? So it's literally tuning in to that awareness of that particular experience that you're having and engaging with it. So you have to personalize it. And you've got to make it you kind of bring it inward toward the self.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. But you need, you need something that we call ego strength.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

For that, because, you know, I think that's where we often hear the term cognitive dissonance.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's a term that's really been sort of very popular. And so essentially that's what it is, is that you have a perception of something, right? And the moment someone reflects something to you, or they say, or they give you some feedback.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Essentially what, you need to be able to do is take on that information, not discard what your perception is, but take on board what they are saying to you and go, okay, how does it work if I consider what they're saying? Like, what does that do for me? Notice my reaction to that. Do I get angry? Is there a particular emotional response that I'm having to that information? The inability to do that is what we call cognitive

SPEAKER_00:

dissonance,

SPEAKER_01:

right? When we have almost a negative response and we're saying, absolutely not. You know, you don't know what this is about. You almost immediately dismiss what the other individual is saying to you.

SPEAKER_00:

I can give a perfect example of that. So in my journey in a corporate space, I've had situations where having to be a leader and someone that might be more junior. would say to me, but you didn't do that. Why didn't you do that? So that hits a string. Obviously the subconscious of my experiences that I bring to that. And then, you know, that sentence that comes up and I go like, well, how can you be questioning me? So the reaction, subconscious would respond before I actually think about it. So I can completely get that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But because you are self-aware individuals, because I know that you are, and I also know that that is something that you make a constant practice for yourself. You will actually notice that, you know, you will notice. And also you have the ability to pause, you know, which is a practice in itself to be able to do that. Yeah, that's a really great example. I'm just thinking about my own. I had a conversation with my daughters yesterday. And was it yesterday? Could have been the day before. But anyway, and so I think I face some cognitive dissonance. As you do. It's just such an interesting thing. I mean, like I have one who's almost a teen and a fully fledged teen already. And yeah, they were just telling me about an experience they have of me, you know, which I would never have. I would never have like you. Describe myself as that. But I knew that I had to listen. And so, I mean, you'd think, you know, as someone who works in the field and who's done years of her own therapy, that these certain things that when you hear it, it's actually not so bad because you're able to take that in. But I think with your children, I think at least with my children, I was thinking about how we actually really want them to think well of us. And I think, I mean, I've definitely said this to my children myself, is that it matters what you think of me. Whatever the world thinks about me, whatever I've accomplished according to what people believe I have and publicly seen, those things matter and I'm grateful, but it really matters how I treat you and how you experience me. You know what I mean? So that conversation was a little bit difficult. And I remember saying like I was probing.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And my daughter actually said to me, she said, I think it's going to upset you.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Wow. That's self-awareness on its own. And so she

SPEAKER_01:

said like, I think it might upset you. I was like, how come? She said, because you've gotten upset before. Okay. You know, when I've mentioned

SPEAKER_00:

it.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's that moment of sitting through that discomfort of I'm about to hear something that, you know, and, you know, that could create cognitive dissonance. And also stir me and maybe, you know, to use also an overused term, trigger me. But listening to that, you know, and then kind of also having these conversations with them and in some way also offering a reframe, asking those questions and going, do you often experience me that

SPEAKER_00:

way? Sure.

SPEAKER_01:

Can you name that? Can you, you know what I mean? Okay. It's sort of almost teaching them how to engage with an awareness.

SPEAKER_00:

Got you.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, and then in that conversation we had, we spoke about the difference between different perceptions.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Because I, my 12 year old is who obviously reminds me all the time that she's almost 13. She, she kind of does the, you know, which is very much a tween teen thing, which is the extremes of like, I never get to do this. You always say

SPEAKER_00:

no,

SPEAKER_01:

you know? And, and I was, we were talking about that and I was saying like, that may be how you feel and that's your perception of it. And this is mine, you know? And then these are the different roles we have as the parent. This is how I experienced this relationship. And as the child, this is how you experienced the relationship. And it was quite interesting. It's difficult. It's a difficult conversation to have. And I particularly in that conversation had difficulty. Yeah. And it's been one of, it was probably one of the harder ones I've had in a while, you know, where I noticed that I was kind of like drawing into myself and starting to feel a certain way about myself and how I actually needed to do self-care after that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

you know, obviously regulate.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And like, and do some self care because it's difficult to hear certain things.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I agree with you. I mean, I've recently had a situation where, you know, I've had to have a difficult conversations at work with some individuals and, and the way that they see you. But you also have to realize that the way that they see you is also their perceptions and feelings. And, you know, with that, like you talk about cognitive dissonance and also it's their bias that they bring to a relationship as well. And in some way you might trigger them because you're a version of what they would want to be. So, you know, I understand that it's different dynamics too. Right. But I want to ask you, Shami, it's something that you mentioned now about with regards to self-awareness. I do understand self-awareness brings a lot of empathy a lot of good traits, also on a spiritual level. But what are some of the more negative associated traits of self-awareness in terms of can it create more anxiety in certain individuals? I think I read an article where it basically said if you're someone that's quite self-aware and do a lot of introspection, that it could create a lot of ruminating where you ruminate so much that you fixate on things and you cause a lot of anxiety. So is there a situation where you could self-reflect in the wrong way, in a way that doesn't really kind of not promote your life, but doesn't really do any justice to what you want to do.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's interesting because to me what it feels like you just described was self-consciousness. Okay. Which is different to self-awareness. And then also overthinking. Okay. Right? So I don't think that the nature and the quality of reflection and self-awareness to me is one where you show kindness and compassion to yourself. Okay. Generally, when we tend to overthink, we're ruminating and we're often leaning into the negative. So not to say that compassion only means that we focus on the positive. We're basically holding both. We're looking at, okay, maybe I didn't accomplish something. But we're not treating ourselves badly as we do that. So I don't believe that self-reflection and self-awareness brings... Okay. Necessarily. I actually think it's something that soothes you. Right. And so there is a distinction because if you, it's kind of like something, a practice we do in dialectical behavioral therapy. Yeah. Where you, if someone is trying to change a particular behavior or they're trying to deal with, I don't know, like some kind of cognition that isn't, you know, healthy for them. What we often say is, is that, In that moment, right, if you struck in a moment with something, you have to rate yourself first. Where are you on a scale with your anxiety, with your anger and whatever? And if you are above like a six and a seven, that is not the time to self-reflect. Do you

SPEAKER_00:

know what I mean? I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_01:

So essentially you've got to choose what works. And if you are self-aware, you'll know. You'll know that this is not a time for me to go into deep thought about something. What I actually need to do is put my energy into something else.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So whether that's a task, whether that is something that soothes you, whether that's exercise, anything that's going to shift your energy. And that's what we call distress tolerance.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Because is the reflection and going into a state of kind of like thinking about this deeply and... Is it actually going to distress my system even more, my nervous system? Okay. So it's kind of like a practice of regulation as well. But essentially, the self-aware individual will know I need to rate myself. I know that I'm actually too activated at this point. Right? If you are five and below, you can reflect. But again, which is something we'll get into later around how do we cultivate self-awareness, which is that it has a compassionate element to it. It is not a beating up of self. It is not a critical of self. It is not a look at all the negative things. You know the list we make in our head when something doesn't go our way. So to me, yeah, it sounded like it was more. That's more self-consciousness and that's someone who's constantly kind of like, how does the world see me? How does the world see me? How does the world see me? That's not healthy for us. You know what I mean? Does that answer

SPEAKER_00:

the question? No, it does. It does answer my question. I also think with self-awareness with regards to, for me, I'm using examples, a lot of corporate, because I mean, that's where practical situations. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

that's your life.

SPEAKER_00:

So, I mean, if I... For instance, in a job, and let's say, for instance, and I mean, everyone listening here, and you feel that there's certain things about the job that you, maybe you don't like, the what and the why questions, how can that help you? Like, for instance, could one say, like, for example, why is it that I don't like my job? You know, because we very tend to, as humans, go, why this, why that? We think we're rational. We think we're rational beings. Yeah. But I agree. Sometimes asking different questions like reframing, like asking what, you know, what can I do differently tomorrow? I didn't have a great day today and that's okay. But how do I, what do I need to do tomorrow to ensure I don't repeat what happened in the past or today? So I know sometimes for me during a busy period, we all speak about deposits and withdrawals that it takes on your energy. But I find that just doing a different practice in the morning, making sure I could get my coffee, you know, that I've had a good night's sleep, that I come in with intention in the morning to go, right, before I'm going to start my day, I'm going to take 10 minutes, structure what I need to do, focus on two points I need to do before 10 o'clock in the morning. So it's actually like, again, speaking myself through the self-awareness practice or being aware of what I need to do to, like you say, almost get to a situation where, I love the word you used earlier, I can't get the word now, but we almost self-regulate. Yes. You know, it helps you to self-regulate. Yes. So I love the use of saying like, you know, not just why did I do this? And that's more like negative. Yes. Whereas reframing, asking maybe what and when, like you were saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I think the what question is so, so important because it kind of, it brings on board more than just your thinking capacity.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so that's also something to note is that self-awareness isn't just about, you know, what can I cognitively notice? Sure. Yeah. So when we self-aware, what we are doing is we're bringing on board different things. We're bringing on board our sensory experience, our emotional experience, our feeling experience. And so all of those things are really almost informing us. They're just informing us, giving information. We're not, yeah, it's kind of like what you were saying around doing that ritual in the morning. Because you know that that's going to be something that grounds you.

SPEAKER_00:

You

SPEAKER_01:

know what I mean? And so through that practice, you're bringing on board all of these different facets of yourself. And you're saying, in order for me to feel grounded, have my coffee, it's a physical experience, take a few moments of silence emotionally and in terms of my feeling, maybe that actually, you know what I mean, soothes me, that type of thing. So with a self-aware individual and the experience you're having, it's really kind of like, all these different facets of self that comes on board, and also that you invite in, which is why it's a practice, because we know anything at the beginning, it's, oh, that's so overwhelming, you know, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And maybe just to bring in the, before we get to the kind of how do you develop sort of traits to help your self-awareness, bring in the spirituality aspect. If I look at it, many, many religions, Shamila, they speak about love and connectedness to, you know, to what that may be, nature, people. And to me, if you look at love and how you show up for love for yourself and for your fellow human beings, I'm sure there's a trait to self-awareness there that one has to be aware of how you show up to others. And it's kind of like that clip you shared with me. If you want to be excellent… in how you show up in the world, you allow others to kind of, you know, be the same. So I wonder in spirituality with kind of love yourself and love your neighbors, if that's got a kind of like, you know, you're very aware of how you show up for yourself and others. So I'm sure spirituality plays a big part in terms of self-awareness too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I often find like, again, there's, you know, varying degrees of this. And if you make it your goal, then... you obviously grow in that, right? And so I think about essentially what we are talking about really when we talk about self-awareness is that we're discussing the depth and trajectory of the consciousness, essentially. So that's really what it is, is that self-awareness is the starting point of creating a conscious human being. And a conscious human being is aware of himself and others and environment, you know, and inanimate objects and animals and nature. And so again, someone who is viewing the world, not just from a very narrow sort of perspective of self obsession, but also just like I'm in this world and I have an impact on it and it has an impact on me. You know what I mean? And so that in itself is just a spiritual way of being. If we, if we being honest, you know, and again, kind of, I think I said it earlier around being able to connect to the essence of something. You know what I mean? So like if I'm having an interaction with you and you're my friend, you've been my friend for years and all of a sudden you have a response to me that's just so out of place, it's to be able to see to the essence of that and go, but I know Lincoln, you know, I know who he is. I know that this must be something that's happening. And so there's an opening there and there's a compassion. There isn't a closing

SPEAKER_00:

off. Do

SPEAKER_01:

you know what I mean? And so that to me is understanding intention and the essence of something.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a great point. I love that. Yeah. That is really good. Just a small point quickly with regards to a similar situation. There were particularly family relationships that when I had interactions with them, my behavior would be slightly different thereafter, which I wasn't. aware of but obviously you know my wife picked it up and she said to me have you noticed that after you have conversations with certain family members that you seem to be a little more on edge and stuff and when I went to go and do some self-reflection and kind of like listen because I mean obviously she's my wife she knows me very well so I'd have to go and like actually you she's 100% right because that would impact my very interactions I have with people that are important to me and so having to put the practices in place to ensure that I don't do that and that may mean that if I don't have the capacity to answer that call that will change my behavior thereafter I've got to make that decision at that time so I'm so grateful that I have people that are mirrored to me that can say to me at times, like, you know, Lincoln, I know you well. I know you're on your journey because it's a lifelong journey, shall we? Absolutely. As we all say. Yeah, as we all say. But I think, you know, to have people in your life that are willing to be that honest with you. Yes. Loving critics.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

And then I can go like, actually, you know what? I've never actually really thought of it that way, but you are so right. I can see it how it impacts me. And even though we try and refrain or restrain those feelings, it's hard to, like you were saying, there's the subconscious that you're not always aware of. And it triggers those things, whatever word you want to use besides trigger. But I realized that I've got a young infant too, a son. And many of the times it would involve, for instance, going to do some playtime with him afterwards. Right. And that would actually affect my time with him. So I was thinking like, you know, if I want to be someone that's a present father, I have to make adjustments in the way that I show up to him. And that means sometimes when I don't have the energy to take that phone call, I don't take it.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

When I feel that I've done what I need to do and I have the emotional energy to handle that call and know that it's not going to impact me, then by all means do that. But if you don't have enough at the time, don't take the call.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think that that really speaks to the essence of Relationships. Yeah. You know, you want to...

SPEAKER_00:

Good luck. It's tough, aren't they? From what I hear.

SPEAKER_01:

From what you hear from me. Yes, it is. But it's interesting because, yeah, I just find that people who practice self-awareness and they really make this, you know, a central point in their life, they tend to be the safest people, you know, because there's going to be a pause. Generally, they're going to have empathy. They're going to have compassion. But... you know, I don't have to kind of, I don't need to, I don't need to perform for you. I don't need to package something a particular way. You know, you're good with kind of yearning me and, you know, just, just kind of making that safe for me. So, so, so self-awareness makes us really, it makes us relational beings. Yeah. You know, it really helps us to be healthy relational beings.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

We are holding space for ourselves and the other. And I think that's the important part is that with self-awareness, it is toward the self, but it is with the view of being able to hold that space for self and other. Because we exist in a world where it's self and other consistently. Relationships is at the heart of our human experience. Yeah, that's a really beautiful example. And I suppose it's kind of what I was experiencing with, with my daughters is like, am I actually ready to have this conversation? And I think when my daughter was saying to me, it's going to upset you, it was kind of her signaling, you know, are you okay to hear this now?

SPEAKER_00:

You

SPEAKER_01:

know what I mean? That's essentially what she was doing. And I had to take a breath and be, yes, I am. I do want to hear it. I'm interested in your experience. I'm curious about that, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's very true. I think with regards to self-awareness, I mean, there's obviously certain practices that go along that can really assist with you developing self Like we said, there's this very critical skill or something that's like, you know, eighth wonder of the world on the way. But we're always in the financial service industry called the compound interest. But, you know, I think there's never been a time for people to realize how important these emotional intelligence, self-awareness and all these other skills. We so focus on outcomes, business outcomes. But if you realize that we focus on these topics like self-awareness. Yeah. how much it will gain us insight to actually live in our daily lives and how we interact with others. Because like you say, there's always us and others. And on the spirituality aspect with regards to when love, it's always about others and yourself. You love others as you love yourself. Because many people love others. But there's a part where it says at the end, as you love yourself. So in other words, you have to make sure that you are fine.

SPEAKER_01:

Which is interesting because that really kind of, I guess, brings... As to what is the extreme of self-awareness?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Do, do, do. Here we go. It's that overused word, narcissism.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? And that's really like the extremes if we're looking at the opposite ends of something. It's self-awareness and narcissism. Because narcissism with narcissism. And, you know, maybe at some point, you know, in the future we'll talk about this separately. But essentially it's an individual who lacks ego strength. Yeah. and isn't able to do what we're all speaking about, which is to really see the self clearly.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure.

SPEAKER_01:

So we practice self-awareness because we're seeing the self clearly. And then from that place, we engage with the world, right? With a narcissist, obviously, narcissism, yeah, as I speak about it, exists on a spectrum.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And you have diagnosed narcissism and then you have experiential narcissism, right? So if someone is diagnosed, it's easy, you know, You just know. But I think, as we know, the word is thrown around, and so we're really talking then about undiagnosed narcissism, but we're not also discounting that people are truly experiencing that in certain relationships or with certain individuals. But I mean, narcissism is extreme. It's kind of like only self-involvement, right? And so that's where the word selfish, I think, fits in. And it's really not relational. That's the hard part about this. And so... Narcissists don't truly know how to relate to others, only relate to themselves. And so when I think about this sort of this, if we were to think about self-awareness as this mechanism, I think about, imagine that there's this threshold, right? Whatever this exists within your consciousness. On the one side you have self, and on the other side you have the other. And you have ego as the gatekeeper, right? So you picture that? Can you imagine that? And so the self-aware individual is consistently going back and forth that threshold, over that threshold. So they're going, noticing self, noticing other. Feeling self, feeling other. And that's a healthy practice to be able to do. And they're doing that where when they do come back to self, Whatever information they take on, whatever feedback they get from other people, whatever, you know, things are shouted at them, whether it's negative or positive, it doesn't disintegrate, you know, or crumble the self. It really just creates sort of a curiosity and a way of engaging. So when we think about with narcissism.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So essentially what we're saying is that someone who isn't able to cross that threshold. So essentially what they're rooted in is that they're rooted in self. And the ego in relation to narcissism becomes the greatest ally, essentially. So with a self-aware individual, they understand ego to be the gatekeeper, but they have a very kind of open relationship with

SPEAKER_00:

it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, so the ego doesn't define the self-aware individual, but neither does it kind of stop, you know what I mean, new information from coming in. That's a regulator. Yes, essentially. And essentially that's just what narcissism really is, is that it isn't able to take... the individual isn't able to take on any new information because it may be disruptive to the self-concept.

SPEAKER_00:

So

SPEAKER_01:

it's rooted in this is the way I see it, this is the way I experience it, and so therefore that is how the world is orientated. So in truth, it's not a realistic picture of the world, whereas with self-awareness and the self-aware individual, Through their practice, they're consistently making the world real for themselves and others.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

They're not just seeing kind of like a figment of, you know what I mean, their imagination or their self-concept.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's why it's probably so easy for a self-aware person to see a narcissist.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

You can spot them a mile away. And

SPEAKER_01:

why they sometimes attract them. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yeah, like I said, let's just say in my sphere of working in the past and, you know, with my relationships in the corporate sector, I've often seen that. Yeah. And obviously with my own work that I've done. Yeah. But it's so easy to spot it now. Yeah. It's so easy. You can't unsee it now. No, you can't. And because I go and go, okay, I see the situation. How did you treat the one scenario to the next? Yes. And like you're saying, but it's very interesting. Like I'm saying, I think what I took from that whole thing is once you become self-aware, you can't unsee the narcissist.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think about kind of the self-aware individual being deeply expansive.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? So if you grow in that, really what you are doing is just expanding and expanding and expanding. Whereas with the narcissistic individual or with narcissism as a behavior or just a way of being, there's just constriction. And so, yeah, so it's easy for the self-aware individual, let's come back, to see that because what they've done is they've almost really learned to be able to see themselves as separate from the other, but not separate as in, It's either me or you. It's I'm separate from you and that serves a purpose because then I can consider you.

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. I hear what you're saying. Right? And I

SPEAKER_01:

can hold space for you. And so you become safe with me. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

I know what you mean. But I mean, what are more common ones in terms of the self of the individual that they can do to help with self-awareness?

SPEAKER_01:

That's interesting. I just had a thought I wanted to ask you. Maybe it could actually help our listeners. Do you think you do that practice because you are self-aware or do you do that practice because you want to cultivate self-awareness?

SPEAKER_00:

I think I do it to maybe a bit of both. I haven't really thought about it until now. It's a good question. But I think I do it to... be more aware of what I'm currently at. So it's kind of to develop the habits in a way, but it's more to kind of get my flow for the day, my ebb and my flow for the day, which really helps me. So

SPEAKER_01:

that to me sounds like as a self-aware individual, you know what works for you and so you put that in place. So that's a good starting point in terms of how do we cultivate self-awareness is that I was reminded this week when I was reading You know, that we are human beings from the beginning of time have been ritualistic in nature. And however that looks for you. And so when you mention that to me and you talk about your morning, it sounds so soothing. You know, it sounds like the soothing ritual that you do for yourself. But again, I think because as a self-aware individual, you know what grounds you. So that's where we begin, you know. But take a step sort of further back as a starting point. This is where mindfulness comes in. So if mindfulness is the practice, self-awareness generally is the goal.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Got you. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

And then obviously if you are wanting to grow in self-awareness, you practice mindfulness.

SPEAKER_00:

Got

SPEAKER_01:

you. So what that looks like is a lot of pausing. Okay. A lot of pausing. And essentially what you are doing is with the pause, you're creating space and you're giving yourself time. So of course, what this is is then the opposite of knee-jerk reactions and instant gratifications and like this anxiety to do now, now, now. So that's what we're doing. We're creating this delay. And the delay is there so that your consciousness can come on board, right? Because when we caught up in that automations, it's unconscious behavior. And so we're kind of inviting consciousness on board to go notice. Did you notice that? I think the example you made with your wife, where she said, almost like she was doing an act of consciousness, essentially. Right? When she said, because it made you pause. Yeah, definitely. And we need that sometimes. Sometimes it's not us that can do that for ourselves. We need to be able for someone to say, did you notice? Right? And she used really compassionate language. Yeah. And she approached you quite compassionately. And so it meant you were open

SPEAKER_00:

to that. Yes, very true.

UNKNOWN:

Right?

SPEAKER_01:

And so we're doing the same practice with ourselves. Okay. Right? Is that we're pausing and then I'll say, Shamila, did you notice? And it's not a, did you notice? Like, why would you do that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's not a scolding voice. It's very much a compassionate voice. And so mindfulness, the tenets of mindfulness really is, the main ones is non-judgment, observation. Okay. So you are observing yourself. with non-judgment. So whatever happens in that moment, and I'm noticing something on board, which is maybe I'll say to someone, notice your breath. How are you breathing? And we're just giving information. We're observing and we're just giving information. We're not making analysis

SPEAKER_00:

about anything.

SPEAKER_01:

How are you breathing? I notice that I'm breathing like this. How does your body feel? I notice it feels tight. Maybe I notice that I feel quite open. I feel quite joyous. Okay, can you name an emotion? Is there an emotion? Is there a feeling in your body if you can't name the emotion? Is there a tightness in the body? Is there a sensation in the body? Is there a vibration? Whatever that is, but essentially you're bringing, you're inviting this information in. And that's really all the things that contribute to how you see and experience something. Okay. But when we're in automation, which a lot of us operate on, and I think like the world increasingly almost pushes you to do that. We often speak about that. But it's literally making you slow down. Pause and notice. Pause and notice. It's such a great power in that.

SPEAKER_00:

I can agree with that completely. I mean, if I look at situations I've had at work and kind of practicing how to be more self-aware, Sometimes there's certain conversations that someone would say something, they would pause, they went through action, they see how you respond. But then I go with myself, like, I'm not going to respond now in the way you want me to, because I know where this is leading. Right. So then I will go, I hear you. I don't feel I can respond right now. Can I get back to you tomorrow? So again, it's like catching it in the moment. Right. And then going like, if I had to respond now, I'm going to probably respond in the wrong way that I feel obliged to respond and probably not going to give you a response that would have been the response I wanted to give you had I thought about it. So there's nothing wrong in actually stopping and going, listen, yeah, I hear what you're saying. I appreciate that. But, you know, in order for me to respond to you in the correct way and give it the justice it requires, let me get back to you tomorrow. Because sometimes things trigger you and you might get the wrong response. So I'm very aware of that too and how that can flow. Yeah. One thing that I love someone mentioned to me once, I said to him, you know, sometimes I find it difficult to switch off from work. So when I fetch my son off to leave in work and someone said to me, why don't you create some rituals too? So when, before you get out the car, say to yourself, like I want to, the first five seconds I see him, I want to engage with him and know that like I've missed him today. So that, you know what I mean? And also when you get home to realize that you leave your work at work and the home is different environment, Take your shoes off at the door. So now you're leaving your work shoes at the door and you're walking into your home space neutral to know that now I'm a different individual not bringing my work stuff out. So, you know, some of those things, they might seem very like arbitrary and kind of how do they really relate, but it does a mental shift. It really does. Because you become aware of what you need to do and it just shifts your mindset slightly.

SPEAKER_01:

It does. And I think what you… What you're doing is you're doing a practice that's very simple. Yeah. And I really think that as human beings, we actually do respond to this simplicity. I

SPEAKER_00:

agree. The

SPEAKER_01:

moment you minimize things and you take things away, there's space. And that's really what we're trying to create, right? Yeah. And so again, the self-aware individual has space for themselves and they have space for other people. Yeah. But it's a practice. And so I love that. And so- I mean, it's a conscious practice for me as well. And obviously these days where I'm working at home. Yeah. It's so interesting. They just come flocking to me. I'm like, can I please have a moment? And I think they kind of like sometimes they read me, but it's like, mommy's done, you know, and then, you know, come and engage me with whatever conversation I want to have. But I'll sit there. There'll be times where I sit there and I go, as soon as I walk out that door, I know that, you know, they'll come and engage me and I'm not ready for that.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure.

SPEAKER_01:

I really still need time for myself or maybe I've just had a session and I need to do notes, whatever that is. But like your practice of taking your shoes off is mine when I walk out the door. Okay. I've left work behind and this is my office space. And so I've left it behind and now I'll, you know, I'll be mommy. Yeah. But yeah, it's an interesting thing. And so we need to simplify things. And so really mindfulness as a practice for self-awareness is really just about simplifying things. You know, we're not adding things. We're not asking you go and reach for this thing and, you know, and then you know, it's really just as simple as taking a breath, noticing your breath, pausing, looking around you. What's a really great practice is also just to notice your environment, especially when you're quite activated. Whatever that emotion is or whatever that experience that you're having is to look around you, look at the trees. If there's trees around you, look at the room, look at the different objects in your mind, describe the object, look at the color of it. If there's something on your desk, feel it. So bring your senses on board. So you can come back to yourself and back into your body. Because again, self-awareness does not happen just in your head. This is a whole body experience and we're kind of inviting your whole self, right? And so any practice that you can do That kind of engages that. I

SPEAKER_00:

love there was, I was driving in now to the podcast, there was a song on the radio and it literally speaks about a guy, he's obviously a songwriter. He speaks about how he drives in the car with his daughter and she's a toddler, I don't know how old, let's say she's under two. And he stops at the McDonald's drive-thru, it's 7am in the morning. He's obviously spending time with her. And the lady obviously says, what would you like? Would you like Mickey D's, whatever? Yeah. And then he says, before we can answer, his daughter from the background says, Daddy, can you see the squirrel outside? Daddy, can you see the trees? And he says, I wish I could be more like you. Right. So, I mean, just think about that. It's the simplicity of that. If you think about kids and simplicity of that. And I think as adults, we tend to become so complicated human beings. We overthink things. And just to be reminded, like you're saying, of nature and some of the things that can actually grind us again is probably a good practice too. It

SPEAKER_01:

is. And it's, I mean, you saying that kind of almost just Yeah, it just made me so aware of kind of my heart space and I almost wanted to tear up because I think about when I'm disconnected, I actually feel quite sad. Yeah. You know, I feel quite sad. And so when your child comes and they kind of like draw your attention somewhere else, that's really what they're saying is like, come live with me, come be connected to me. You know what I mean? And it's just, it's such a... I think it's something we actually yearn for as those complex, complicated adults we become.

SPEAKER_00:

I think we all realize that we're all just doing this journey together and we cross each other different stages of our lives and the indelible mark you can make on others by being self-aware. Charmaine, thank you. It's been fascinating. I enjoyed it. It was really lovely today. And I know we chatted probably a bit longer than we wanted to, but I do believe there's a lot of great content too. But until next time, What's up, Lincoln?

SPEAKER_01:

And from me, Shamila, we send you greetings and love.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that was The Human Story brought to you by Yogd Media. Stay tuned for more on The Human Story.

UNKNOWN:

The Human Story