The Human Story
The Human Story podcast is brought to you by Yoked media hosted by Lincoln & Shaamiela. We love being human and we find the messiness of the Human Story fascinating. Come and join us for an unfiltered exploration of raw and deeply personal conversations. Through authentic storytelling, we dive into the complexities of life, our struggles, victories, and the profound moments that shape us. The series is about connection, resilience, and transformation, reminding us that while life may not be perfect, it can be beautiful. The Human Story is our invitation to listen deeply, reflect honestly, and recognise yourself in the shared experiences of others. These stories remind us that growth is possible, connection is powerful, and every journey no matter how imperfect is worth telling.
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The Human Story
Remembering & Returning- What It Means To Be Human
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In the first episode of The Human Story for the year, brought to you by Yoked Media, we step into a new year shaped by uncertainty, division, and longing, this episode invites us to pause, feel, and remember. Lincoln & Shaamiela are joined by a guest co-host Gila Sowter an occupational therapist, breathwork practitioner, yin yoga teacher, and deep listener of the human experience. We explore what it means to return to our humanity in a world that so often pulls us away from it.
Through honest reflection, shared stories, silence, and presence, we speak about community, embodiment, grief, love, faith, and the quiet courage of choosing kindness in difficult times. This is not a conversation about having answers but about learning to sit with the questions, together.
A grounding, soulful beginning to the year.
A reminder that you matter.
An invitation to remember who you are and to return.💛
You're listening to the Human Story Podcast, conversations on the all-encompassing human experience.
SPEAKER_00:Well, welcome back to another edition of the Human Story, the first edition for 2026. We're back. We're back. Back and bold and ready to move forward. On that note, Xami, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_02:I'm well. I feel windswept because as I walked into the building, you know what happened. This is Cape Town, and the wind is here to stay. It's been like weeks of it. But I'm good and I'm so happy to be here to have returned to the studio.
SPEAKER_04:It's you.
SPEAKER_02:And today we have a guest co-host, which I'm very excited, to introduce you to my friend Gila. Welcome, Gila. Welcome, Gila. Thanks, guys. It's a privilege to be here. So Gila's my my everything friend. I love that analogy. But but mostly my forest communion friend. Yes. And my neurodivergent, neurospicy sister. I think if there's ever a person that could completely get me, I mean there's a lot of, and all my friends do get me. Lincoln does do. I get to have both of them today. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The masculine and the feminine.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes. You both so beautifully do that. I mean, both of it. But yeah, I'm so happy to have you on board. And yeah. Could you share with our audience a little bit more about yourself?
SPEAKER_03:I can. Let's start with the most awkward question that you could possibly ask me, and we'll take it from there. So m where to start. I am human and I'm here for the human story. Yes. And I guess how I weave into the conversation today is I'm an occupational therapist working most specifically in palliative care, which is an exquisite place for people to explore their humanity. And it's one of the most incredible places to bear witness to people's humanity when they're working walking on that journey. And I'm also a breathwork practitioner and a yin yoga teacher. And at times when I'm lucky enough, all three weave together, and then my path splits and I do separate things. But this is where I find myself most aligned is when I'm creating spaces for people to explore their humanity, whether it's through stillness, whether it's through breath, or whether it's through coming to terms with what death and dying means to them. So that's me when I'm not in a forest with you.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. Wow. I just kind of want to like tap into that and ask everybody, do they feel that?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Yeah. I felt the part about you saying when you see people walk maybe and have to face whether it's family members or the person going through something, possibly facing death. Yeah. But then you say you have the other experience of like, you know, exploring nature and forests and rebirthing to living that antithesis is must be quite a wonderful experience.
SPEAKER_03:It is. It's so multifaceted and it's actually just such a gift to be able to witness more and more the layers of life on this planet.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And it's not black and it's not life and death. It's all woven together. And it's the more time I spend in nature, actually, and in the forest and mountains and in the ocean, it just it affirms that that it's all just this exquisite unfolding. And the more we allow ourselves to go with it, the more potential and depth there is in the experience.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Amazing. As usual. Do you understand why she's my friend? I do now. Do you see that? Yeah. So there's thank you. How beautiful. And thank you for reminding me why we are everything people to each other. But yeah, I'm so happy to have you with us in this conversation. And I think you almost already began the discussion with your introduction. And or maybe just with your presence and your human energy, you know. And so today we wanted to yeah, just have a chat about remembering and returning. And I thought about that because we have entered 2026. It's the beginning of the year. It doesn't feel that way because of the global happenings.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I thought it would be an interesting time to reflect as our first episode for the year, but also again, globally, what is our experience of that? Yeah. And to just reflect on what does that mean for all of us? So we're going to start with a question we ask all of our guests. Right. And we're all going to try to answer that. Okay. In this together. Yes, we're going to do this. Yes, we are. And so the first question is as a remembrance and a return, is what does it mean to be human on this planet in this time? Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Suddenly we on the other side, we have to answer this. Exactly. Very different experience than throwing it to a guest.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And when we when we've asked the question, they go, ooh, it's a big question. I'm like, no, just answer it. You know what I mean? But it's actually.
SPEAKER_00:I think uh the previous guest we had, Dr. Sarah Matchett, took about pause for 20 seconds. And you could feel it when we asked that question. And the answer was obviously very late, which you expected. But as I'm kind of thinking about this now, I still don't really know if I have an answer. If I honestly just sit here and be present with you two, I don't know if I can really answer it in a way that I can articulate it that it would be understood.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think I feel that too. Like I feel like I have an answer, but I don't have an answer to that. You know? Yeah. But I completely feel that.
SPEAKER_00:You feel that.
SPEAKER_03:I was just gonna say that it's it's a feeling. It is. And it's a feeling that's beyond words.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that we we feel into it together because for me, when I start to try and put things into words, and I love words, yeah, but for something, then it it it almost takes away from the essence of what it means. Like there's a gravitas and a sinking into what does it mean? It's like a right. That's what it means to be human in this moment in time and space.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So that's it, that's the answer. The rest of us don't need to answer. But I do think it's that. And and as we sit here now, I would not have thought that this was would be how we experience the question. But it does feel fitting. And yeah, I'm glad that it's it's a feeling as opposed to exactly like you say, words, you know, which does take away from the experience of that.
SPEAKER_00:I will I will say, I will add something to say that conversations I had in December when we had some time off away from work, your job, not really your work, but I had some conversations with especially males in the masculine sense about people in similar life stages to me and what they're endearing and some of their struggles where there's a lack of community. That seems to be very common in a kind of a humane space at this stage and separation. And I can feel that. I can feel that. I think you can look at it globally, the division, you can see that. So I will say maybe the word that comes to mind is being aware to go out with intentional kindness and empathy for people. Yes, yes. I think that's what really hits home for me if I just think about it more deeply.
SPEAKER_02:If you put a word to it. Yeah. So that's interesting because for me, the the I mean this is gonna sound obvious, but like it again, it be the word was presence. And I think that even as you ask that question, and as the the more I sit with it, the more I think that we probably flooded with all of the external stimuli and then also the internal experience of that and the meeting of that, you know, on the inside. And how do you put that into words and how do you describe what that feels like in the moment? Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting thing because when I think about it, I feel like I actually think about the experiences I've had where I've had to come into an acceptance of my humanity. Yes, you know, the things that make you just so, so human. And a lot of that led from doing lots of shadow work and understanding that actually this is just the human story. This is what it's like. And then like embracing, right, all of those things that really often is judged and feels icky to acknowledge about yourself. And then further along the line, how I actually became and am, I believe, such an advocate for my own humanity, but also for others, because I think that when you're in a particular position, publicly, personally, or privately, sometimes you're not given the same space as others to show up and present as human. And so, you know, from the denial of my humanity to the acceptance of it to the advocation and the fierce protectiveness I now feel toward my own humanity and others, of course, but just to be able to say no. When I show up here, where wherever that is, I get to be human too, just like you. Yes. Right. And that to me feels like the greatest presence, you know, that I I could have found, you know, and rooted myself in.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I could feel that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You can also feel that.
SPEAKER_00:You know, you talk about having humanity in spaces, fortunate enough to attend a work functional yesterday. And it doesn't happen often, but you do have these little pockets of conversations outside of work. Yes. And you know, you happen to kind of know where you sometimes gravitate towards people to have more deeper conversations and you know where those people are. I mean, I'm sure Shami and you and Gila have had those situations in the past where that's probably why you're sitting here today. But I was just struck by the humanity of someone that was sharing her experience going through the daughter, daughter's 21 tomorrow. And since she was born, she's had amazing health struggles, like really difficult health struggles. And she's had to endure a lot. And she was telling me that for some other reason her husband named her daughter, it's a Zulu name, it's called Nkobile, and it means warrior and and kind of like a courageous spirit. And she's saying, you know, Lincoln, whatever I've had to endure this past year and see my daughter, what she's gone through, she's such a fighter. And I think that brought me back to think like, if I think I have these problems in my life, suddenly you kind of your humility, your own humility, you brought back to it and getting like are the things that you're facing, are there really such issues that you have? But I think only when you have community and you're willing to have those open conversations with people, do you realize what people are going through. And that's where you build your empathy and kindness towards others.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So that conversation, I'm so grateful for that conversation because that brought me back to my own humanity. But we're not willing to be open to explore those spaces, we never get to experience that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, we need we need community, we need other.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And Xiaomi, just linking back to what you were saying about owning your humanity and being protective of it, it also makes me think of a journey that I've had with humanity, but also being human over the last while, I don't know, maybe the last 10 years. Because how often do we hear people saying, I'm only human?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Or looking at being human in a negative way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:And that feed that that that feeds into a self-fulfilling prophecy that I am limited in some way, that I'm negative, I cause damage, I'm a blight on the planet. When in actual fact, it is the most phenomenal gift to be able to be able to experience life as a human.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm not only human, I am human. And that means, yes, I've got the shadow side, I've got the things that make me feel uncomfortable, and then there's the glorious feelings that maybe make me feel uncomfortable too. But woven together, it's pure magic.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because what other being on this planet gets to experience things the way that you do purely because you got to be born in a human form.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And then as you say that, and and I think maybe because we're all very um, I mean, I like to think of myself as someone who is in pursuit of that, that which is life-giving. You know, and I think both of you share that, and we all share that as we sit here. We enjoy living, like we love living, you know, and we're optimistic about life and humanity and and our humanness. But immediately, you know, what comes to mind is that again, the stuff we started off talking about is that the global experience right now, and that's my question, I guess, for the person who's in a war-torn country who's being deeply dehumanized, who who doesn't have a voice and who we'll never know existed. You know, because there's parts of the world we don't even know that this village is named this. Yeah. Yes. Right. Is like, how do those individuals, how do those those humans experience being human? Are they allowed to? How connected to their humanity are they? It's that whole thing around words, right? As much as we love words and and it describes something, sometimes it just also takes away from the experience and the essence of the being or the thing. So yeah, it's just made me kind of wonder there, you know. Yeah, and and it's I guess maybe a way of remembering. Yeah, a shared experience, but also a very unique experience for others. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I mean, for the first time in a long time, we actually have a discussion today where I feel like the words don't express the feeling.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I feel I think the weight of it, of your words that you just said now on how others may be experiencing things in the world. I don't know why, but I I also feel like there's a helplessness on my side. I don't know where it comes from, but it it does feel like that. I think the only thing you can really do, and I think Gila, you mentioned it before we went live now, is to kind of how you manage yourself and how you show up for yourself to others. I mean, I love what you just said. I mean, I don't know if you can repeat that, uh, but I think it's quite fitting what you mentioned before, what's happening in the world and how you show up as an individual and not really what's been thrown at you, really.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So I came to this way of of trying to understand it and frame it for myself because I have this capacity to sit in very deep wells of sadness.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I feel at times it feels like I'm feeling the sadness of the whole world. And then I feel like I can't do anything with this and I feel guilty because I'm not in a war-torn country and I have all this ridiculous privilege around me. So then it's okay. So how do I make sense of this so that I have agency and I can actually help myself and the people around, or not just the people, the non- the non-human beings around me as well. So it's looking at the life I'm living, what's happening around me, what's happening at the in the world, and and seeing if it can flip it from this is happening to me and this is happening to us, or we chose this on some deep level. Yeah. We chose this as a species, as a collective to evolve, to grow, to learn things for ourselves, to teach each other lessons. And how can I be most useful in the learning and the growing and the evolving as opposed to sitting and feeling helpless and a victim, I guess would be the so yeah, the remembering part then comes into remembering why we're here, remembering that we need community.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Remembering that we are not isolated, although this the system is designed to make us feel that way. We are so deeply connected to everything on the planet.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And the more for me that I've started to really tune into that, the more it's like, how did you not see this before? How did you not how could you have been acting in a way that perpetuated this feeling of isolation where you're connected to the plants, to the animals, to the person next door, the person on the other side of the planet. Everything is connected.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And there's almost a, as you saying that and can sort of link to what Lincoln was saying about the helplessness and maybe even a powerlessness, you know, that we feel. I almost feel like when you describe it that way, that's a validation of those human beings. Because it truly is a helpless and a powerless feeling. And I know that that doesn't necessarily help them, you know what I mean? But there is something validating about being able to say, as a human who who knows, you know, there are people who are experiencing this and that you exist over there and I don't know you. But there's something about being able to say, I feel completely helpless and powerless that feels validating. You know, I don't know. I'm saying that from this position exactly, as you've pointed out, which is quite privileged. And even though the econ could be up higher, it's cool in you. Do you know what I mean? It's uh, it's it's such a it's from this position. And I think I'm wondering about that because we speak about the empathy aspect, right? And even what you were saying, Gila. I think that's it. It's like, you know, sometimes even as we sit here now and as we started this conversation, how there's such a there's a wordlessness that's occurring in the room as we sit with it, that that feels again like a deep validation of something. And maybe it's also just about sitting with someone, you know, and sitting. I mean, we think about these many meditation practices where you can sit and you can just become this global feeler where you just sit and you feel and you go, I'm gonna be with you here. I'm gonna sit in silence and I'm going to acknowledge all beings on this earth and just go, I'm here with you. I'm remembering you, right? I won't forget you because that's what's difficult. And I think in the last couple of years, and this is the part that makes me really tearful, is that you watch this happen on social media, we're tuning into it every day when you open up your page, whatever, whatever you use. And if the least I can do is not look away, then that's what I'm gonna do, you know, or repost or whatever it is, or use my voice. But there is, I'm hoping, you know, that there's some form of validation that we do remember you, you know, and we do, yeah. It's it's in our hearts and our minds all the time. Because that's certainly how I have approached it. And so one of the practices I've I've started doing on social media particularly is because we know it's a carousel of like, you know, what will you get next? And you go from sad to like laughing to, you know, we've spoken about that before. But one of the things I've tried to do lately is when something really, you know, yeah, like just deeply touching and moving and horrendous, even comes across as I actually just stop, I don't scroll. Sometimes I'll even leave the app. But I it's my small way of just being with it. Yes. That I refuse to actually just move on to the next thing, onto the next feeling, or to just leave this feeling that I'm sitting with because it's very hard. And I want to acknowledge that, and I'm not saying that everybody else should do the same thing. Yeah, but there is something about that that feels yeah, that there's some kind of allyship in that or some kind of human feeling and sensing. And so, yeah, I mean there's a reverence in doing that, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:A reverence for the shared human. Experience that we can't do anything about what feels that way. But you are experiencing somewhere on the different part of the planet the worst side of humanity. There is. But I can hold in reverence this the sacredness of the fact that you are alive and that I see you in some way.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:That pause, that moment of I'm not going to let the system distract me. And I think that f is also part of the the remembering for me is remembering that I'm more than just a consumer. I'm more than just a number. I am part of this.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, if I if I think about what I've seen transpired not just in my own life in circles, but what's happening in the world is kind of people chasing more significance when it's coming at a cost, cost of ourselves at times. And so I've asked myself the question this year, like, what is it that I'd like to move forward towards? And what it comes down to is like kind of remembering where I came from. And for me it's a it's a spiritual thing, it's a prayer thing. But it's about really choosing to to love God and love others, and then obviously like kind of to lose your own life to gain it. I mean, that's kind of like losing the ego. When it's really hard to love others in your spaces, you still choose to love.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And it's so this year, I think it's more about a but a quite costly love, a boldness that doesn't say I want to be seen for my deeds, but I want to be remembered for the love that I showed for people around me. So that to me, this year, I think if I'm choosing, it's just to love God, love others, and lose part of myself to find myself.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. That feels like um I've been reminded of like this is actually what it's about. You know, because it does feel like that. I mean, that's like a massive ego clearing. You know, if you think about it exactly like that and approaching it that way. Yeah, I think that towards the end of last year, I what feels, you know, what's resonating with me about what you're saying is that I think it was one at the retreat, the breathwork retreat, where as soon as I uh got into the car with the the person I went with, I was just like immediately struck with this idea of a mirror. Right. And just sort of this thought or this feeling that sort of just descended. And it was like everybody, every human being is your mirror. And I was like, okay, where does where did that come from? I wanted to pretend that I didn't ask for that. So I most and and and then it actually just helped me because it helped me center and root every single time I wanted to, you know, go off into the story about what this could mean and what you know that could mean. And and that's what it feels like. It feels like, you know, there's a humility in being able to see and sit across from another human being and see yourself. Yes, you know, in them and acknowledge deeply that ah, you have that too.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know what I mean? And that that was really helpful and it's continued. And so there's I don't know, I feel like I experience love differently now. And you spoke about love, right? And I think that happened when I started accepting my humanity, right? And my humanness, because exactly like what you were saying, Gila, about the gloriousness of being human, and that we get to have this complicated, complex experience, and sometimes very simple and mundane, but that I get to see that in another human being, and I get to be awake and attuned to the things that make them particularly unique and individual. And so now that's just such a part of the love that I experience with anybody is like, wow, look at how your eyes crinkle when you laugh. Or like, look at how you know you get distracted when something happens, or there's just like a different kind of love that I experience now. And there's like a, I mean, it's a curiosity, but there's a joy in being able to acknowledge that and see that in someone and know that it also exists in me. Yes, that's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00:It is beautiful. So I was fortunate enough to be without a phone for the first week in January. Amazing. It was an amazing experience. When you tell others, they're like, they look at me like, are you on something? Like, what are you on that you're saying is an amazing experience? The amazing experience is, and we always speak about was the universe trying to show me something to set me up for the year. And I remember for the first two nights when the family went to bed, I was like, What do I do now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because I didn't go and scroll.
SPEAKER_00:Your hands are unoccupied. So I felt this like this kind of I don't know, nervous tension. Yeah. We spoke about it before, Sean. I've told you. And by day three, I started like feeling none of those feelings really. I started feeling like, wow, I started noticing my dog more. Like he wanted to go for a walk now. And I'm like, hey boy, I'm up for it, let's do this, whatever. And I had little moments in between where I was a lot more present that I'm like, I want more of this going forward. So whether it was a universe or not trying to show me something, it set me up in such a nice way because okay, let me take it back to December.
SPEAKER_02:So in December, backstory, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, backstory. I I came through the year and I told Shammy, I think towards the November, I was very feeling very tired and drained. A lot happened last year, a lot of good things too, a lot of changes, and I embraced it all. This podcast started, and I mean, this is a space where it's really a restful space for us, and I love doing this podcast. Yeah, but so I go to a space where I just felt a little bit mentally drained after the year. And I think the first week of the holidays was kind of like just kind of coming back to myself again in a way after what's happened through the year. But I kind of leading up to that, I had started feeling a bit of things in the house, in the dynamic of feeling like a bit of debit and credits. And I didn't want to feel that way. And it kind of brought me back after about two weeks of holidays when I started thinking about how do I want to show up for the people that I care about next year. And I realized that if I'm gonna go into the year performative and thinking if I do something for someone, I expect something else in return. That resentment, that unforgiveness we spoke about in the episode. And someone reminded me, so it says, like sometimes you will give 20% to a situation, but your partner might give 80%. But that's just the season, it's a long season of life that you go through someone. And it was such a useful conversation because I now going to the spaces, going like, where can I make things easier? Instead of going like, I have to do this, and I feel like but don't you see what I'm doing? Yes, yes, and I think it was so useful for me because suddenly it's about letting go of the ego a lot more. Yes, like what do I need? What can I gain from this? So I'm in a space now where I'm like, how do I make this work for the dynamic and not just for me?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Wow. That's so reminiscent of understanding that we all create this ecosystem. Yes. Right. And if we can think of the home as the ecosystem and the relationship as an ecosystem, then we take a lot more responsibility. Yeah. Right. Because we all are responsible for what we bring into that ecosystem.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:What we leave behind, or maybe even what we don't bring.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Yeah. You know what I mean? We don't bring. Yeah. Yeah. And that works from the micro, micro level all the way out actually to what we're talking about on how we feel helpless on a global level.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:What we bring or don't bring. So as simple as choosing to have or not to have a conversation about something. Yes. Is it's what we bring and what we don't bring. Yeah. And the yeah, the responsibility that it comes with our humanity.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly that. And acknowledging someone else's humanity. I think in what you were saying, Lincoln, wow, that's really sure. I love where this is taking me.
SPEAKER_00:It's like uh Yeah, I I also remember leading up to I think it was November last year, where one of the colleagues came to me and they wanted to do a campaign with quite a good cause, room for change. Um, and we we try to see where we could get involved in that. And I never really read up about it prior to that. Anyway, I went to do some research and saw the videos online and many male voices, prominent male voices, getting behind and backing the campaign. But it it made me realize on a very micro level in my own household, and Shaman knows this quite well. I'm trying to change the templates for my boys. So, what is the best thing that I can do in that small environment where I can sh show a different template to my boys in how I engage with their mom? Because that is the first point of reference in your house where they see that. So, like if you can realize it's like what can I do? I'm I feel helpless. Well, actually, in your own environment, yes, how you treat your spouse is a very good indication of a respect level that you're showing towards someone that they look up to.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah, you know, I always say this about you, but I'm so grateful that you are the human that you are in this world. But that your form is a man. So you know, your form is a man and that you're that kind of man, and that you you've been given sort of this mandate, you know, by God Himself to raise these two boys with that kind of consciousness. And it's interesting because I feel like that's something we can't. I think women feel exasperated at going and saying it's actually as simple as that. If you change the way that you speak, you know, behave toward, treat just the women in your lives, that shifts everything. And that's your practice ground. Very true. You know, and I know that this is way more complex than that, sure. Considering we in South Africa, yeah, right, and what gender-based violence, the statistics around that. But there is something about that where we just, yeah, we just actually want to be seen as human.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Just have our humanity acknowledged. I'm sure it's the same for men. Yeah. Yeah. You know, which is that, because you know how it is now on the internet. It's very like women this and women, men that, and you know, and uh stuff like high value. Are we kidding? Yeah, like to describe a human. We all high value, like inherently. You know what I mean? You are inherently high value. Yeah, it just made me think of that. And the so there's almost like, yeah, there's a yeah, you've been given like something really big to navigate.
SPEAKER_00:In the past, I I saw it as a bit of a a bit of a weight. Yeah. Because before you go into fatherwood, you you can kind of like sit in isolation and not really deal with it. Yes. And kind of like, I'll manage it, no one really sees. Yeah. But suddenly you're now face these two humans, you now mirror, and now you realize okay, I'm carrying the weight of this, and there's no way that I can I can really do this with them. Because I know that my responsibility is not for them to feel dependent on me when they leave one day, it's that they are individual adults going into this world, that they're kind to others, yes, that they're not taking that template and really just not breaking a curse in a way. So, yeah, I think for now it's like embracing that responsibility, but uh, there's a sense of like I don't know how to really call it, of an acceptance that I take upon myself being grateful for it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yes, it's a gift, it's a gift, yes.
SPEAKER_00:But I feel in in many ways, like I say, I feel there's an awakening that I'm so grateful for. I know Shamli, you speak about these periods you go through. We spoke about one of the episodes, the seven-year cycle. Yes, yes, and I feel that for the longest time I've I've been sort of grappling with all these things in the background, and it kind of feels like it's come to light and it's time to really live it out. And I'm so grateful for this podcast because I tell Shamli, along with my own healing, this has been the wonderful source of that. But if I can share these experiences, practical experiences, and one person can gain from it and go, hey, that's quite interesting. Maybe something I didn't really think about, but it's maybe curious. And I think that's all these conversations really are. You know, to make someone think about, okay, I didn't really engage, but let me let me see where this takes me.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So listening to what you're saying about the responsibility you have with your boys to model to them different ways of being.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I'm curious to know how your relationship with yourself has changed. Because yeah, I'm I'm just I'm curious.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, I think I think for the first time in my life, I probably feel that I I really matter in what I do. I think in the past I felt I had to go in spaces and be quiet. But now I feel I can walk into spaces and be bold and that your voice matters. And I think if you can feel that way that you feel that you matter in people's lives, I think you can go into spaces confident, even if you don't have it all together. Go with what you have right now and the rest will make sense as you move forward. But I think there's a sense of me understanding the deeper meaning that I that I have a big role to play. It's not over. So I think that's that is yeah, I'm grateful for it. I think that's what I really have to say about it. Thanks for that question, by the way.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I was also like I was thinking the same thing. My brain is is percolating in all different directions. Um because I was I was thinking about when we were discussing remembering and returning and the difference between individual remembering and the collective. Yes. And as you're speaking, I'm I'm thinking about the collective remembering it feels like we're being called as a collective to also remember that we do matter. Yes. Every single one of us. Yes. And whether it's because we are here to do big impact from what social media tells us we're doing, or it's because you smile at somebody and that turns their day around and they make different choices in that day because they feel seen for half a moment by a stranger.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:We all matter, and it's so easy to forget that.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, that's beautiful. That really is. I think my father keeps reminding me that significance isn't really about what we chase. It's something we discover when we love God. And for me, that's God, obviously. Um for someone else it could look very different. Yeah. But to come to that realization and to know that responsibility that I now have to live out, like I said before, I don't know how to express it anymore, but I'm grateful for it. Yeah. I'm really grateful for it, yeah. And I'm grateful to have different voices like this around me. I'm grateful for the friendships that I have with people like Shamula because you know, there've been many conversations like this we've had over 20 odd years. Yes. That have, like you said, have made me see a different point of view in something. Maybe I wouldn't get stuck in my own story. We many of us do. You know, it's someone to help you out of that, just to give you a light and go, like, oh, actually, maybe, you know, maybe I am stuck in my own story, but yes. So it's very insightful to have different voices around you, and and that happens in community. It only happens when you're in community. Yeah. So that's that to me is again realizing that I have to put myself in a position, even if it's uncomfortable for some people, because we all have to socialize. Yes. Whether you want to accept that responsibility or not. But there's actually a meaningful gain from that that we don't always see. But after it's, I mean, how many times have you gone to an occasion? You go, I don't feel like it, I don't really feel like dressing up. When you come back, I'm not saying every time, but there are some situations you go, like, actually, I wasn't really looking forward, but that was actually quite cool. I really enjoyed that. Yeah. Um, so I don't know if anyone can relate, but this very often happens to me. Often. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, that's yeah, thank you for the reminder of the because I do think, I do think that. And as as we reflect on the collective, I'm thinking about yeah, like I think you mentioned it, you know, what are we returning to as a collective, you know? Because there's remembering and then there's return ring, because we can remember and still not go back. Yes. Or come back or return. Sometimes it's difficult to remember. You know, sometimes it's hard to remember, sometimes it's even difficult to return. Yeah. You know, because like a big part of this is also, yes, the individual experience informs the collective, and the collective experience informs the individual experience. And and I guess the interplay between those two. But there is a, yeah, there is something about when everybody's immersed in the work at the same time.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And so I often, we we're leading up to Ramadan, I often think about like how sometimes it's easier. We'll often say that because if you don't fast throughout Ramadan for women who menstruate, you fall in those days outside of Ramadan. And every single woman will tell you it's so much more difficult. And I think that speaks to the collective because we're all engaged in the same thing. Yeah. And there's a light that that brings. I mean, energetically, that's kind of how that works. Yes. Is that whatever you're engaged in as a collective, it becomes easier for the individual, right? And for the collective. And we see it now even in protests across the world. There's a solidarity that you feel that's very, again, unexplainable when you watch that. Yes. You know. But there is, there's a there's a return to something. I don't know what that something is. I mean, I'd like to think it's our humanity collectively, and that we are fully rooted in our our humanness and that we yeah, that we protect it. Yes. You know.
SPEAKER_03:So as as you're speaking and you're talking and feeling into the words and and what you're saying about returning to our humanity, I'm also thinking, Lincoln to what you said about losing your phone and how liberating it was. And so for me, the two that they almost tie together in when we lose our devices and we step away from technology, we come back to our bodies. And that is actually where our humanity is. This this technology that is our body, and this is how we actually connect to each other is person to person, body to body, not on a phone. We think we're connecting, but we're up here in the mental space, feeding into an algorithm. And the more that we come back to being here and sitting in whatever I'm feeling, yeah, and connecting with whatever is around me from a body experience, the more I can work out what it is I'm returning to. I can't return to something I'm not embodied in.
SPEAKER_00:I love so much.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. And it's uncomfortable when you're not used to being in your body.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. Tell me about it.
SPEAKER_03:I would don't want to be here. I don't want to sit with this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, not with this vessel. Don't tell me to go anywhere but this vessel. Exactly. That's with me all the time, 24-7. But that's wow, that's so profound. I again, this is the word yeah. Deeply feel that it's like the theme running through this experience as we sit here today and talk. But yeah, I I love the reminder. Thank you for for helping us kind of almost locate that, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't know if any of you watched the Grammys.
SPEAKER_02:I saw clips, but no.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think sort of political commentary from people that won awards uh was very welcomed from some people. Look, I'm not gonna say I agree with every speech made and and kind of we understand, you know, how that happens, but I do think there's something about people that use platforms to to speak about things that are necessarily meant to be spoken about. And again, like I say, everyone has their motives, I understand that. I think it's a good thing that certain people do speak up that have voices for the people like Shamli, you were saying for people that don't really have voices to speak up. And yeah, I mean, one person as such was Trevor Noah at the at the awards. Yes. He was the MC the I think the final year, it's the sixth year now hosting the Grammys.
SPEAKER_03:Oh six years, okay.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, he made a a few interesting comments, obviously witty as always. But yeah, he made a few political comments and it wasn't received very well. Where he received a couple of kind of lawsuit threats afterwards by a very powerful global reader.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:100%. But I I love that because it doesn't just drive the narrative of Western media. It's suddenly someone that's kind of more human. Yes. And now suddenly they throw a different mix in there. And suddenly you go, oh, okay. Yeah. So I I love it when you get a reset quickly. You're like, oh, okay, wow. Yes. That needed different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but that's important. That's really important. It is. So I'm I'm grateful for people that have voices that use it. However, that lands with you, but it gives you a different perspective.
SPEAKER_03:And it's not performative. So linking back to what you were saying about thinking how you want to go into this year.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_03:And responsibility. So for me, I think if you are in a position where people listen to you, you have a responsibility to use your words.
SPEAKER_00:100%.
SPEAKER_03:And it when people don't, it speaks very loudly. And then you look at what they choose to speak about and what they don't and which causes they choose to mention and which causes they don't. Yes. But you you have a responsibility to use your voice, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:I agree. And I'm quite often, I'm often struck by that. I'm often struck by wow, this is something I sit with all the time, is that when you an organization, an NGO, whatever it is you are, whatever form this takes, the collective effort takes that you're doing, and you speak about human rights or humanity and it's selective, I struggle with that. Because you watch how, exactly to your point, Gila, how selective it is. It's obviously very frustrating and difficult to sit with because how connected are you then to that word that you throw around and that you use, and then the word obviously being performative versus real. You know, and it's something you can feel. Yes. Whoever is using their platform, whoever the voice is, you can feel when it's real. You know, and that's I guess a bit of a a guidance for me. But also exactly like you say, the mirror is the responsibility I have.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, because I might not have the same platform and be as publicly known, but I have the same responsibility. Yes. You know, and that's that's what I try to remember. You know, we have a podcast that's is named the human story. Yeah. You know, and that's a huge responsibility. I was like, I think we should call it the human story. And then I was like, have you thought about what that means? You know what I mean? And obviously we don't represent the whole of humanity, but when you choose that word and you choose to say it's about the human story, then there is a responsibility, you know, that we sit with.
SPEAKER_00:Um those those wealth and array of emotions that are just thrown open. And however you tend to take that on or speak about it, we welcome it. And therefore, when we put it out, we we welcome whatever whichever way it lands with you. Yes. I think I I read a story earlier this week and it was so interesting. This guy was literally speaking about how people feel the need to create content these days. Let's say one format is podcasting, but how they feel there's this anxiety to create content just to be relevant. Instead of creating content, he used the example of I think Leo Tolstoy, where it's like it's what's the word he used, but it's like it's generational content that will land with you in a hundred years' time from now. Yes. And I love that he says because like Shamla, you mentioned now, you can feel that.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, you can do that.
SPEAKER_00:You can feel it when someone's creating content out of anxiety, yes, and actually when they want to make a difference for the love of what they're doing.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that is, and that'll always be, always be, I think what Shaman would want to do is to ensure that when we come and sit here, it's not a performative function again. It's really just saying, like, this is some of the human things that we sit with, that we that we cause a strife in our lives. And for you to know that that you should also consider some of this because it's gonna help you in your journey. So I I find that very interesting because it helped me realize that we always speak about this, is about the human story. This is not a it's not a fad that we're just doing. This is this is someone that people coming along this journey with us through our own journey. So we want to form a community of people that say, like, I kind of like know where you might be at on a similar space, and I'm gonna go with you on this journey. It's not like on social media sells you if you do this one thing, it's gonna save you. Yes, uh, when actually it's more a system of collective things, like you were saying, Gila earlier, about nature and everything else, and Shamna reminds me every time about nature, and I love that because again, like I say, for me, that's coming from a different angle, and and the time that I spend with Shaman now, it's been an awakening for me to realize there's not one thing where people are going through healing that fixes you. Yeah, it's a combination of different perspectives. For some people, it's meditation, for others it's breath work, for some it's prayer, for some it's therapy. But it's a combination of what works for you. Yes, yeah. And so so yeah, I kind of veer off the point a bit. But what I was really trying to say is that when you do stuff for the right intention, you then it lands differently.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Yeah. What you were saying about that this being the human story, and it's not necessarily the whole human story. Yeah. Yes. But also just in the fact that you are two gloriously perfectly imperfect humans engaging it makes it the whole human story because that's the human story. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Hmm.
SPEAKER_03:And the cognizance of that you're part of a collective.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Right. Wow. Thank you for that. That's something to think about.
SPEAKER_00:I love that, Gila, because Shami, you've uh we've spoken about this before. This podcast has gone out to various parts of the world.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Do you want to update us on the stuff?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so basically we're about 20 episodes away from a thousand downloads.
SPEAKER_03:That's amazing. Well done, you.
SPEAKER_00:Episode Unrest is certainly about 280 episode downloads, the most by far. That's still about that. But I think to say it's it's it's gone out to it's North America, Europe. Yeah, it's just so I think what you're trying to say is that this is our human experience and perfect. We invite people from all parts of the world and communities because the human experience is universal. Yes, it's not just I mean, context-wise, you speak in Cape Town, South Africa, what we're doing now, but the emotional experience is universal. Yes. And therefore, I feel that whatever we're speaking about today and whatever topic is that no matter where you're on the world in your skin, you can feel what we're saying.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes, absolutely. It is that's such a and it's it's so reminding me of yeah, thank you to both of you, but it's it's so reminding me of first of all how much I love being human and the the great privilege I feel that comes with that. Yeah, and I'm thinking, I mean, I you know, we we all do work with humans. Igila and I in different capacities to Lincoln. But all of our work, you know, our jobs require human interaction and human space holding. Yeah. Right. Holding space for other people. And so yeah, I've just just in my own life, I've gotten to a point where there's there's such a surrender to the human experience for me that that's all I want to do. I just want to be human alongside you.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:I want to be human alongside my friends, my family, whoever, you know, my clients. Like I just want to sit across from you and be another human being who yeah, is willing to sit with you in it. Yes, you know, and be with you in it and to to listen. You know, and and that feels like a major relief. Yes. When I think about it and feel into it. It's like that great exhale. Yeah. You know, of okay, if all we do is sit with each with each other and be human, you know, then that's enough. That feels like it's enough, you know, as opposed to all these tenuous things that our ego is hinged on. Yes, you know, and you spoke about that word comes to mind because it the ego in itself, which is really beautiful, it has its place.
SPEAKER_03:It does, right?
SPEAKER_02:Because it just leads you to these places and really unhelps you uncover that shadow that again is so so much a part of the human experience. Yeah. It's just it's a profound, again, you know, all of these ex these things, this part of ourselves that's amalgamated in this body, as Gila, you know, reminded us.
SPEAKER_00:Gila, I want to I want to return the favor, the question you asked me earlier. Seeing that you work in palliative care and you know, you obviously work with people in different life stages, um, you know, kind of life-threatening illnesses. Has there ever been someone that's shared with you or your observation or your experience where you would say that their view on the human experience maybe changed on where they were getting to that point, and you observing perhaps maybe for if it were that case, maybe the final couple of weeks of someone's life where you see maybe in that experience that it changed the way that they viewed the experience of life.
SPEAKER_03:That is a big question. That is a big question. That is a big question. And actually, if I think of some of the beautiful souls I've been privileged enough to journey alongside, what happens more often isn't a change. It's more of a consolidation and a concentration of who they have been or their life experience all along, and then it comes to this moment. So there's one woman I think of I only knew her in the last eight weeks of her life.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And she was so at peace with dying, and she had the most gorgeous celebration for her birthday, knowing that it was going to be her last birthday. And it the sense that I got was that this is how she's been her whole life. But coming towards death. Coming towards death.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It just enhanced that side of her. She became more joyous and more committed to radiating love to the people around her and letting them do that back to her, even though she was exhausted and in pain. So that has been more of my experience. So the people who are anxious or angry, there will be snippets of acceptance.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But it hasn't been my experience where that just then suddenly changes. Maybe there's a little bit of peace towards the end where the ego let lets go. But they become more of who they've been all all along.
SPEAKER_00:I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Justina, I I guess it's got a lot to do if you understand this is not the end of your journey. Yes. Yeah. I think that'll make a big difference. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it does. I think also as well, maybe some of the change happens if, for example, somebody has dedicated a lot of time to work and is in like in your case as a dad.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And hasn't spent a lot of time with his kids, although that would be where he'd want to be. And then found out actually I've got a life-limiting illness. My time is now slipping out of my hands. And then he becomes more present as a father. So he's it's not changing who he was, it just redirected.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Does that make sense? Absolutely. That's a lot of sense. Yeah. So if he was not a present dad, had no intention of being a present dad, it's unlikely that the focus would have shifted onto his kids. But it just realigned him back to where he needed to be. Gotcha. A remembering. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I guess that answer just reinforces what I'm going through and what I, you know, would like to achieve with my kids. Yeah, that's that's that's also beautiful. I love that.
SPEAKER_02:It is. I'm also thinking about, I don't know, like there's I'm not sure how this fits into the conversation, but it really feels important as someone who has a voice and you know, a platform to speak about this because I do feel like this is a bit of a, I want to say diversion from the full human experience, which is that we now live in a world, and this is, you know, obviously very informed by the by my work and the people I work with, my clients. But also just observing, right? Is that there's a lot of pathologizing that's currently happening in the world.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, slap a label on it.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And then what?
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Great. Please tell me.
SPEAKER_02:Like, you know what I mean? Like and then what? And then what? And then what? So there's so there's a lot of that, and I I just I'm bringing that up because so much of what we pathologize is actually very human. Yes. And I'm often struck by that when I meet someone new, a new client, or maybe it's even an old old client, and we talk about something, and you know, their response might be one of judgment towards themselves, or one where they, you know, oh, that's so wrong, that's so bad of me. And I'm like, no, actually, because they they look to you to go, okay, tell me the label, right? And then we're gonna talk about how to fix it. And I'm like, no, actually, that's just human.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:You know, there is there's no label for that feeling or that experience or that very natural response you had to someone. Yes. You know, or the fact that sometimes, you know, you default to a bad behavior, if it's even a bad behavior or a particular behavior. But there's a lot of that that I often feel disconnects us from our humanity. Where we're so obsessed with the labeling and identifying with something, you know, that oh, okay, so this is how I present. This is this is my human. Gotcha. My human has dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. I'm not dismissing what that means for your life. Sure. I want to be clear on that. Yeah. I'm not dismissing your experience of your own humanity because of that, right? And whatever you come with. But there is beneath all of that in mindfulness, we speak about the sky is will exist forever. Yes. Until this planet does what it needs to do, right? But and the clouds. Yes. Right. The clouds. But to understand that those are clouds that are there, and and as soon as they move, you'd be able to see the sky again. And that we lose sight of it because we focus so much on the clouds. And that's what it feels like. It feels like I'm so concerned with improving myself. Because that's the other thing. There's an obsession with being healed. Healed. There's no such thing. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. There's no such thing. We are on this journey of evolving. You don't even have to say healing. You can just say evolving as a human being. Yes. But there is this, yeah, this this stuntedness that the the obsession with these labels, I guess, and the pathologizing of very, very human behavior and human experience and human feeling that disconnects us as well. That I'm also seeing, you know, disconnects us from our humanity. Very much so. Yeah. As something that needs to be fixed.
SPEAKER_03:That's it. Maybe this is what we're being called to remember and to return to is to the sitting, like sitting around the proverbial campfire and just being human in whatever guise that is. And remembering that at the base of it, we are all that sky.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And we all have different clouds and weather patterns that and that connects us all. And we need to remember for ourselves that that is who I am at my core, this beautiful self.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Having a human experience.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:And if I can sit with my own human experience, I can sit with your human experience and I can have deep compassion for how you are experiencing being human and not take it so personally. Exactly. Because it and it's I say that and laugh hysterically because it's so easy to do. Like, how could you do that to me?
unknown:Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:But in those pauses where I can exhale into the what you just did has absolutely nothing to do with me.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm just as gloriously, I'll say it again, gloriously and perfectly human as you. Yes. And we can one day sit and laugh about this. Yes. Maybe not now because I don't want to look at you. But that's the that's the point is to remember that we're we we're actually here to be imperfect because how boring would it be?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. Yeah. Whole lot of perfect. There would be no evolving.
SPEAKER_03:It would be like fake plants. Absolutely. Which are travesty. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So I think two things, just to add, Shama, you're saying about so much has been pathologized. Slap a label in. I do think that the whole word of disconnection is so true because how often do we see social media influencers acting as like really professionals in that field? Giving advice, going reading up on something and really like presenting it so well, like they the expert embody that, giving that advice out. So I think there's so much information out there which is really damaging to people.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Because there's no context on that. And I think that plays a big role. So I think the whole fact of social media does add to that pathologizing because I can relate to that. That person says, Yes, I'm that, I'm that. So you have to label yourself. So I think part of the fact of I do understand that, you know, that that in itself, but I do feel that that adds to the whole thing of pathologizing. That people say, I can relate to, I I think I've got that. Like, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:I agree with you. I do think that social media is the greatest instigator of pathologizing language. Yeah. Yes. And how we've yeah, how we've all just sort of latched onto it, you know. And yeah, and so I mean, I might have said this before, but I'll sometimes have clients come with, you know, a carousel of, you know, posts that they saw on social media, and and then I'll say, okay, so let's contextualize that. Yes. Because that's exactly what it is, is that we can all relate to that. Yeah. But unless you contextualize that, it's impersonal. You need to personalize by going, how does this affect me? And how does this again affect my human? Yes. You know what I mean? And how much of that stuff listed on there is actually human?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Do you know what I mean? I mean, and I think that's something as which is not simple. I was about to say simple, it's not simple. I'm thinking about something like anxiety. We were created with anxiety. You know what I mean? There isn't a if you don't have anxiety, you wouldn't be human. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So the very existence of your anxiety is what makes you human. Again, these are degrees to which people are challenged by, you know, an anxious experience or in their body. But there's also like, you know, okay, so this is the thing that's going to make you dig deeper as a human. Yes. This is the thing that's going to make you stretch. This is going to be part of that path of evolving. You have anxiety along for the ride.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:You know what I mean? And like what I always say is best you befriend it.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Smile and wave. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know what I mean? And it's similar with other stuff too, befriend it, because you're actually way better off journeying with that thing, right? Or this label or this experience. By being in relation. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Being able to relate to it and say, okay, I get it. I see how why you show up, how you show up, what it does, how it dysregulates me. What do I need? You know, it it really does take you down that that, I guess, that path.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
unknown:I agree.
SPEAKER_00:I always bring it back to you were talking about, you know, how do you experience joy without knowing the suffering that exists in the world too?
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And I guess in life it's kind of the same thing. How can we ever find true joy if we don't have the opposite experience of suffering?
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:So we've got to expare the multitude of emotions to be able to go on either factor to understand that. Nothing works in isolation. To experience the euphoria of one, you have to experience the other. And I think so often we just we just want to experience the joy of life. But to understand what makes us really human is to experience uh these emotions. And I find people don't want to sit with emotions.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:They don't want to.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Which is at the heart of being human. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:That we're here to feel it all. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:All feel it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And we live in a cis well, in a culture of quick fixes and throw a tablet at it and make it go away. And as you were talking about anxiety, I'm thinking we do that with physical things too.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So how many ads do you see coming up for winter where you need to get the flu vaccine? When actual fact, getting flu, I'm not discounting people who have different immune responses who do get really, really sick. But for the most part, it's almost like a rite of passage. Yes. That every couple of years you'll get flu.
SPEAKER_02:Gotcha. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:And your body does something with it. Exactly. It's also why, you know, why have I got what have I maybe not been doing? Or is it because my child has brought this home and now we're upgrading collectively as a family? But there is there's a purpose to these things. We're evolved to have illness, to then work through it, to rest, for our body's immune system to upgrade. And if we throw a tablet at it, we don't give ourselves the opportunity to have that part of the human experience, which is what we're here for, and it's what our bodies are designed for. So we we're doing ourselves a disservice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Really. I think I I kind of want to, as we kind of look towards wrapping up, maybe just share the conversation to to kind of head in one direction to say that there is a lot of change happening globally in the world at the stage. And I think how you how you adapt to that determine and how you probably process emotions. Yes. So I think you know, a lot of what's taking place, and yes, we can say maybe it's just more exposure, more media, but it's about recognition of patterns that have happened in the past and history and just kind of being open to change. I think change happens inevitably. It's part of life. You know, there's this whole talk about AI and how that I mean, and and there's obviously various theories about that. But I think if you realize that, you know, it's just about embracing change for for what it is, and just being present with it and and kind of seeing where it takes you. Because if it leads you just as thinking of it as fear, it's gonna stop and stunt you from actually growing. So I think I just wanted to kind of end with that too.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna take this into the body because I noticed that at the beginning when we started talking, I needed to clear my throat quite a bit. Which obviously meant I needed to say something. Or there was something particular I needed to say, and I think I said it somewhere along the line because it's gone now. I don't need to clear my throat anymore. But also as we're speaking, I mean, I uh as we sat down and and started the conversation, it was very clear that this would be a feeling exercise today or feeling conversation, but also just like energetically, I've actually like had that experience of like what you would call cold shivers a couple of times. And I'm noting it and I'm going, whoa, okay, this is you know, this is real. And it's such a profound and heartwarming affirmation of the collective human experience.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And what happens when people sit down with intentionality, yeah, yes. Or sit together with intentionality and the connectedness, you know, that that creates and you experience. And and yeah, and I just I'm so struck by that and grateful for it and grateful that I can feel that. Because that's often what I feel grateful for is that I can have an awareness that that's happening. Yes. And to be able to name it and say, ah, that's what that is. So I'm quite aware of that as we speak about, you know, these feelings of powerlessness and helplessness. This is the affirmation for me. Because, you know, it does make me, yeah, it's difficult for me to sit with those feelings. And you were speaking about that deep sadness. And that's it. You know, we're all energetic beings. Some of us are a lot more attuned to it. And so Gila and I often speak about that, you know, our experience of feeling deeply into kind of just the earth's experience, you know, and being in this world. And and those are maybe big feelings that some people that's how they describe it. It's very intense for me sometimes as well. But I would not change that. No. You know, that's it's not easy. But I would not change that because again, yeah, I can be awake to these moments. And it's yeah, so it feels like an answer to perhaps a question as I was reflecting around, you know, how do we, yeah, how do we remember and and help other people kind of know that we're with them. You know. And I'm thinking that that's yeah, I mean, I see it at the end of last year that I feel like I've returned to a sense of community, you know, and I think that that's yeah, that's uh that's clearly like an intentional position, but also a place I'd like to go more often. And be in more often. Yeah. And to feel into that collective experience. Yeah, and I'm actually just thinking that we you know, whatever practices we have, that is part of how do you practice remembering and returning? Maybe that's a question we can leave our listeners and our audiences with is how do you practice remembering and then you know, what does the return look like? Yeah. And also, and I guess be clear on what it is you're returning to, you know. And then also what I wanted to just also pose, and one last question uh to our listeners, and is also what are you remembering so that you don't return to it and repeat?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Because there are some stuff that we have to remember, but uh so and we have to remember it so that we don't return to it. Yes, that's uh Right, and we don't repeat whether that's a cycle, a loop.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yes, and that veers off into a whole different conversation indeed, that we'll have to save for another time.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think yeah, Gila, I just like to say from my side, before we actually go in the podcast, I met you, we talk about energy, and I know you guys are much more experienced about this.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00:But just from kind of sitting here now, I feel so at peace off this conversation. Yeah, it's a real nice peace that I have. Yeah, it's the best way I can describe it. But also, it was lovely the energy that you gave when I met you, but I could feel it today too. So thank you for just coming to share your human experience with us today. Yes, uh, it was really lovely. I really appreciate it. And a different voice, I think it's always good. Yes, different perspective, and I loved your insights. I really loved your insights. Thank you so much. So, yeah, I think for myself, I'd just like to say thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Do you have any closing thoughts, feelings, experiences? All the feelings, all of it.
SPEAKER_03:I just want to thank both of you for opening space for me in this Unfolding Human Story podcast that you have, and it's a humbling honor to be invited into the conversation. As daunting as it might have felt initially. It's you're both so easy to talk to, and there is this resonance in this space. And even though we might experience well, we do experience life differently, there's a common thread that weaves between us, which I guess is the human story. And yeah, I'm just grateful to be one small thread in this conversation as you guys unpack it going forward. So thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you're so welcome. You're a big thread. Small thread. I think, yeah, thank you so much for coming. We've taken our relationship to another level.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, everything, friends, yes. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:And it's uh yeah, because that can you tell before you before we wrap up, can you tell everybody about our biome syncing? Yes. I think Lincoln actually witnessed it as we I came into the building.
SPEAKER_03:So the backstory reference for biome syncing, if you don't know who Zach Bush is, you need to you need to, he's a safe place on social media. Absolutely. So you can go find Zach Bush. Okay. You will thank me.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER_03:So we all have a biome and a microbiome, and it brings us back to being in community. We are designed to be in community with each other, not just for ourselves as as humans, but for the biomes that we carry around us. We're actually, interesting fact, more virus and bacteria and fungus than we are human. So just think about that. And good thing. So when you when you hug another person, your biome sinks and gathers information from the person that you're hugging, and you are upgraded.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And your nervous system balances. So that's what Shamalan I joke. We're doing when we hug. Yes. We breathe together and our biomes sink. And there is a beautiful, calming experience that comes with doing that. Yes. So find Zach Bush. Okay. Yes. Find a safe person, hug them, sink your biome, and you will thank me.
SPEAKER_00:I may not be Zach Bush, but I was an observer of that, and it looked pretty good. It feels so good.
SPEAKER_02:It feels so good. And that's like, yeah, I love, I love doing that now. And just being so conscious of it as we do it. And and also just, I mean, I say this to you all the time that yeah, you have a nervous system that, you know, gives my nervous system permission. You know, you have a human that gives my human permission. Yeah, and I'm I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful that you got to meet my other human link and it's so great. And yeah, and so I guess maybe just in closing, my thought is is on that point, which is that the more you connect to your own humanity and your own humanness, the more you give permission to other humans to do the same.
SPEAKER_00:Very true.
SPEAKER_02:And so I would ask you to, you know, be aware, like notice how when you let yourself be human, how it shows up in people's faces, in their body, in their nervous system. And yeah, and and yeah, I I'm just so grateful to be human on this planet in this time.
SPEAKER_00:I think just as my if we move it all this year, maybe move towards connection. Yes, towards community and towards compassion.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So for myself, Lincoln, until next time.
SPEAKER_02:And we Shamila, we send you greetings and love.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that was the Human Story brought to you by Yoked Media. Stay tuned for more on the human story.