Exploring the Emergence of Agentic AI: The Latest in the Unfolding AI Evolution

In this episode, Sam Morris and Kate De Jong dive deep into the fast-evolving world of AI agents, intelligent digital assistants that don’t just generate ideas, but take action on your behalf.

From their earliest experiences experimenting with ChatGPT and Claude.ai to their recent exploration of agentic platforms like Sintra AI, Kate and Sam unpack how you can integrate AI into day-to-day business operations. They discuss the hype, the practical challenges, and the genuine benefits for entrepreneurs who want to scale in an efficient and effective way. Their early trials provide some interesting insights for small business owners.

Highlights:

• From generative to agentic: Kate and Sam trace how the conversation around AI has shifted from simple copywriting tools to intelligent agents that manage workflows, marketing, and even strategic planning.
• DIY learning with AI: Sam explains her clever method for “training” GPTs using YouTube transcripts from experts , turning free online content into custom virtual mentors.
• Behind the hype of Sintra AI: Kate reviews her hands-on experience with Sintra’s virtual “AI employees”, from the business coach Buddy to the copywriter Pen, and how she’s using them to systemise her business and increase her revenue.
• Data, integrations & next steps: The duo break down what’s real, what’s still in beta, and how far these tools can (and can’t) go in automating small business success.
• Human authenticity in an AI world: They close with reflections on why personal stories, voice, and connection still matter more than ever, even as AI gets smarter.

Key Takeaway:
AI isn’t here to replace your creativity or intuition, it’s here to amplify it. With the right systems and a curious mindset, tools like Sintra, Claude, and ChatGPT can become not just assistants, but collaborators in building a truly thriving business. Tune in now!

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness ✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew ✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

Transcript

 Welcome to Thriving Business, real Stories and innovative insights to help you grow a business that truly thrives. I'm Kate De Young. And I'm Sam Morris. Let's dive in. Good afternoon everyone, and welcome back to the Thriving Business Podcast. I'm here today with my co-host Sam Morris in Melbourne. Hello, Sam.

Hi Kate. 

Uh, lovely to be back with you. 

Yes. Lovely to be here. I I, I feel like we're on a roll because we, we caught up last week too. We didn't record an episode, but we caught up last week, so this is two weeks in a row. We've got to catch up, which is great. Which we've had a, had so much going on both of us with businesses, so yes.

Business and life has been very full. So it's been difficult to keep up to our regular, regular posting schedule, but 

it ha it has. But look, that this is why today's topic is so very, very exciting. Exactly. Because we are going to once again, dive into ai. Mm-hmm. But we're gonna talk about AI agents today.

Yes. Because the whole field is progressing very quickly. And you and I have been dabbling as we always do. Yes. And it'd be good to share our knowledge. And as always, you and I started a very, um, um, insightful conversation, um, before we press, remember to press record. And so we're gonna try and backtrack and capture a bit of that good stuff we were talking about.

Yes. 

Um, yeah, and again, we've, this is probably our fourth episode on the topic of AI over a two year period, but it is evolving so quickly. It's, I think it's important to stay on top of it. 

Absolutely there. It really, you know, there was a lot of marketing speak around or there has been a lot of marketing speak around AI and you know, like if you haven't got it in your business, you're gonna be dead in the water.

Mm-hmm. But I, I don't wanna focus on that because really the focus should be shifted out of that marketing world mm-hmm. Into. The benefits. Yes. And, and you know, like I say, we've both, both been so busy. Mm. So we're like, let's talk to everyone and let's. Really explore how AI agents can support business owners like you and me and everybody that's listening.

Yeah. Because you and I both need it and we're in the process of trying to harness it efficiently, and we've progressed from when you and I first started talking about AI two years ago, which was the generative. Um, yeah, copywriting, which was just mind blowing at the time. Um, now we've come quite a, a long way where that's now just standard practice and, um, and everyone's using it and you can tell, and there's a few giveaways with the m dashes and, and the words.

Words like unlock and transform. And you can often tell when people have used AI to write things and yeah, I 

run a mile. As soon as I see the words duct tape in any kind of business blog, I'm like, oh. Duct tape is such a chat. That's what I find. Duct tape comes from Chat. GP T's funny and what we're not, we're not duct taping businesses.

No, we're not. We are building solid foundations, not business. Yes. Yeah. Interesting. So I haven't heard of duct tape. I'll keep my, I'll probably see it everywhere now. Oh, really? Mm. 

But see, this is the different experiences we have with our own ai, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Is that, I I, I, no matter how many times I tell chat GBT, that is not in part of my vernacular.

Saying duct tape. Mm-hmm. Duct tape belongs out in the shared in my husband's toolbox. Yeah. Not in my articles. That's, 

yeah. Interesting. So, um, now we are talking about like the last episode we did on a, on ai. We talked about agentic ai, which is what we are Yes. Um, moving into today, which is, um, AI that takes proactive action on your behalf to help you streamline your business and become more efficient and productive and.

I get really excited 'cause I can see the potential. I haven't managed to harness it fully yet, but I have tasted it and I'm like, oh, this is so exciting and I can't wait to dive into this deeper. Um, and you and I, before we start, we hit the record button. Um, we were talking about our experiences because, um, yeah, you asked me how if I was using AI during all these grant submissions that I had to do for the last.

Two months. And my answer was yes. In fact I crashed it one day 'cause I was using it so heavily. And I was saying, you know, my, my go-to is clawed, um, dot ai because of its data analysis ability. And also I just love the way it retains memory and learns from, um, it learns quickly in different threads that you set up.

So say you set up one business and, and it's in. You know, I had one client that's in finance consulting, for example, and then you feed it information, it remembers it, and it, and it can help you write the business case really quickly and easily, um, as well as do all the financial analysis. And then you said you, you love Claude more than chat GPT for, for what reason was that?

Well, I just think that there, the, the language that Claude uses is, um. It's, it's more human. And you know, when we talk about copy, we do talk about humanized copy when it comes to ai. And I just think that Claude has a much better and deeper understanding of the way in which human beings write. GPT is a great generalist, 

yes, 

but it, it is.

I struggles to get specific. 

Yeah, and like I said to you, I don't, I don't classify myself as a chat GPT beginner at all. No, I'm not. I mean, I'm not a super genius when it comes to prompts, but I'm certainly giving it a lot more content and instructions than you know, that a new person would, and I just find that.

Claude needs a lot less help to produce superior output when it comes to copy. 

Yeah, interesting. We have no affiliation with Claude, by the way, if anyone's wonder. No, 

no we don't. Maybe we should. Do they have an affiliate program? 

I dunno. But yes, you should get on it. 'cause I tell a lot of people about it.

And the other one I love. Oh, and Claude now has the deep research function, which I love, where it, you know, if you need, if you need fact founded evidence for something, it will search 300 plus to a thousand, you know, academic articles to get you proper fact, um, based, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, information if you're building a, trying to make a point of about something.

Yes. 

Um, perplexity AI does that really well too. 

Mm. 

And possibly a bit further in that deep research area. Yes. Um, mm. But those two are definitely, I don't go to chat GPT often. I only go to it if Claude crashes for some reason. When I'm using it too heavily or I reach my limit, even though I'm on the paid plan, I quite often reach the limit.

Um, 

I do find that's a frustration with Claude, um, you know, reaching a limit and then having to move into a new discussion because, you know, I, I love going down a rabbit hole and really. Like, I use AI for content writing, but I start with a conversation so that Claude has a clear understanding of what my perspective is, what my thoughts are, all of that.

So it's, but when you run out and you've gotta, and I'm like, now I've gotta go review conversation. And give it the context. Set this up to pick up where we left off. It's annoying. 

It's, however, I don't know if it does actually remember, but I've sometimes, even when I'm in a rush like that and I have to redo it and set the context again, I found that it has kind of remembered somehow or mm-hmm.

Even in a, I dunno if that's possible, but 

I think it's getting better. And even, I was on Claude earlier today, uh, doing some, you know, creating some content and. I had the popup messages saying that, oh, this has been upgraded and that's been up updated, sorry, not upgraded. Uh, updated a couple of things, so I'm like, good.

Yes, they're, 

yeah. AI used it to improve your own ai, right? 

Yeah, yeah. It's a constant, a feedback loop. A constant feedback. Yes. Yeah. So I think everyone now is very familiar with, um, you know, the generative copywriting that you and I use to get away everyone uses to get away from the blank page syndrome.

And it actually comes up with really good structured ways of, um. Communicating a message. Uh, I, I'm working with an SEO guy at the moment and he generates blogs for me that are SEO friendly. Yeah. Using ai. Actually, what he does, 'cause the way we try to, um, make it more human is I do a voice recording. I talk about the subject.

Yeah. 

Um, for about five to eight minutes, I, I just, um, talk ad nauseum. I don't prepare. I just off the cuff say what I know about that topic. So for example, the latest one was, um, how can a business coach help you launch a new business? Something like that. And I just sort of downloaded everything that I know on that topic, not everything obviously.

And then he took that transcribed, it used AI to try to write in my voice, which it did a really good job of. But I still then had to go in and infuse it with some of my personal story and in, and some small case studies. I had a client once that did this and you know, to make it. So I guess, you know, the constant challenge is making it authentic, genuine, and our voice and sound human, and there are ways to, to do that a bit better.

But you still always have to go in and infuse it with your human tone and, 'cause it does still come out Yes. Generic, doesn't it? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 

It can do. And 'cause the other thing I asked you about with regard to your, uh, grant proposals that you were writing was if you'd actually trained any GPTs. Mm. So that's right.

I dunno whether the legalities of this are, except that it's public information. Mm-hmm. So I don't wanna get myself in trouble, but I don't know how I could possibly, uh, there are certain people that whose work I admire and you know, whose podcasts I listen to and all, you know, we all know that I have certain people.

Yeah. So when it comes to doing something in business, in which I know that there is an expert that is far more experienced than I am. I actually go to the YouTube channel. Select the videos of that, of them talking about how to do this particular thing that I need help with. 

Mm-hmm. 

I copy paste the transcription of those YouTube, uh, videos into a document which upload to ai and I'm like, this, this is how I want it done.

Yeah. And those of you who don't know ju uh, YouTube has a free transcript generator, which is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So you, yeah. Take that full context. Upload it to gp t. Can you give us example? Yeah. So I have my little 

GPTs that I've got my own little version of, you know, these mega personalities in, in whatever, whatever field I need help 

with.

What's an example topic that you have done that for? Oh, 

for example, copywriting. 

Yeah. 

So, you know, like when, when I'm working on a sales page and I know that there are, you know, like there, there are psychological, uh, sort of marks that we need to hit at certain points in the page and all of that sort of stuff.

Yeah. 

So I'm not trained in that. And it's not something that I feel that's not my bread and butter, so I don't feel like I need to put energy into learning. Mm-hmm. All of those nuances that the experts know. So I got onto chat, JPT. This is one case where I use them. I said, who were the experts that I would relate to in this field?

They said, yeah, go to YouTube and check out. A, B, and C. So I did. I picked out the videos that were very specific about what I wanted to achieve, and yeah, took the transcripts, put it into a Google Doc, and then I uploaded that into chat, GBT, and I said. Here you go. Brilliant. This is what we're basing everything off.

Yeah. So that would be, for example, um, you, you wanna create a, a powerful sales page for a new product, a new service that you're offering. You could follow that process. Yeah. To make sure you're making a, a page that converts well. 

Yes. Yeah. So I'm like that, you know, these are the psychological triggers I wanna use and these are the, you know, universal laws and Yeah.

And all of that sort of stuff. And I'm like in, that's amazing. In my brand voice. Write me the sales page for this product. 

Yeah. So we do have all that marketing wisdom at our fingertips now, don't we to just harness and you 

We do. We do. And I look honestly, that's, that's. I'm gonna admit it and say that's, that's the poor man's way to do it, because I would love those people to actually do it for me.

You know, I'd love to, to work with those people Yeah. Myself, and have them actually do it. So this, this is the next best thing until I can. That's, 

well, that's fine. And the reality is, because you can do it this way, you're probably never gonna invest that money in working with those people because, and this is where this conversation is important because, you know, um, it, it, it's, it's a controversial thing, isn't it?

Like now we can just harness all the wisdom that that's out there in the marketplace on the web and use it to our own advantage. And I guess that's where this conversation's leading, um, is now we're talking. You know about agentic ai? So now we're talking about using AI agents and um, I have been playing in the last week with the platform called Sintra ai, so S-I-N-T-R-A AI.

And Sam also did try to get on there, but was very up unimpressed with their, um, payments payment system, which caused you to bounce. Yeah. Mm, 

yes. Yeah. So the back, the little bit of backstory in, you know, hopefully two minutes or less is that I actually did buy Citra Mm. A couple of years ago when, like when they first launched, and it was just.

Uh, they were, I had the legacy version of Citra, and what that meant was that I bought files. They weren't bots like they are now. They were files where they gave you instructions on how to set up automations in make. Mm-hmm. So if you don't, haven't heard of make, it's like it's a better version of Zapier.

Mm-hmm. 

And say. Yeah. A thing that connects all different automations together to give you one big workflow. Yes. Automated workflow. 

Yes. So that I felt misled by their marketing because they didn't say that. They said they focused on the capability and, and what it would produce. But had I known that it was giving me make instructions and I would have to go into make, and I would have to settle this up.

And also it relied on chat, GPT tokens, which I had. I was like, I, at that stage, I had the paid version of chat, GPT, and I was like, I'm only paying for it. What do you mean I've gotta get these tokens or something. 

How long ago is this? Oh, 

I, I don't, I don't know. One to two. I, I, I don't know. I can't 

s It's a while ago.

It was a while 

ago. Yes. So I was really, really unimpressed with the product. Mm. I, I wanted the outcome that they were saying it could deliver it. They weren't very clear about how much I would have to learn No. Do and spend Yeah. In order to get the outcome. 

Yeah. And, and I think now they've overcome that with the evolution of RA ai, right?

Yes. Yes. But you and I were saying before, this whole field has, um, evolved so, so rapidly and, and I feel very much that I am a beta tester off the ra, do AI because they're making changes every day or updates every day that are making big improvements. So you can tell it's very much still in developmental phase.

And Yeah, but the, it sounds like what they've done and they've moved, it's, it sounds like they started off by partnering with Mac and Chat GPT. Yeah. And now they've sort of cleverly packaged, um, the whole system into, um, what they call, um, um, sorry, I'm just trying to find the, um. My dashboard. Um, so they refer to it as, um, ra, ai, um, AI employees your helpers that never sleep.

And what it is, is you now have, um, a workspace which has 12 different agents in it. So you have a business development coach, you have a social media. Marketer, you have a web builder, an email, a manager, a, a data and analytics person, a virtual assistant that, um, does repetitive tasks. You have a customer support, um, and they all have cute names.

So then you've got pen, he's the copywriting. Scouty is the talent. He's about recruitment and reor, human resourcing. Then you've got Millie, who's your sales agent. Um, then you've got COE, the SEO agent, and Gigi, the personal development agent. Mm-hmm. Um. And these are all intertwined by what they call the brain, um, the AI brain in the workspace.

So you Yes. Basically have this central place where you upload all your information, all your, um, and the, the important thing to note is that it's protected data, security wise. The, um, no one outside can access your data apparently, unless you publish it. There's, um. Unless you specifically publish it, then it will be made available on the web.

But they do promise you data protection within the system. Um, so you upload Yeah, your frameworks, your, um, your business plan, your your goals and, and any information you wanna feed it. Website blogs, um, eBooks. Any information you've generated that can give it context about your business and then it, then you can use all those different little agents to, to build a strategy for your business and help you stay on top of things.

And there's a inbox where you can go every morning and it has helpful tips for things that you could do to grow your business that day. And, and it's, yeah, it's. Would it help if I give an overview of some of the things, because I think this 

Yeah, go for it. Go for it. Um, yeah. 'cause like I say, the, the CO I, I love the concept.

Mm. But I do have a little bit of hesitation. Um, in investing more money into when I haven't had a good experience already with it's overall product. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And unfortunately, all the reviews, like I tried to Google and watch some demonstrations and reviews and things, but unfortunately all of the ones that popped up on the first page of Google were all affiliate driven.

Mm. So 

I'm like, I feel like you've got a hidden agenda here. Yep. Obviously, because you're saying. 

That's right. My 

affiliate link. Yeah. And I was like, no, I want, I want an everyday user. So I'm like, I can't wait to talk to Kate about this and see. Yeah. In reality, what's her, what's her experience of using 

this?

Yeah. And I did find one guy on Reddit who gave a very honest ex um, ex, uh, experience of it. And that was really interesting, helpful for me. Um, and, um, yeah, when he was first using it, the bots couldn't talk to each other. The different agents couldn't talk to each other. They've now fixed that. So that's, he's gone back in and updated his Reddit post to say as such, but.

Um, he did give me, um, well he did gimme confidence that it's a good product that you can make work for you if, if you just be consistent and stay. But I guess there's, you know, you told me about the, the site called there's an AI for that, didn't you? 

No, you told me about that. 

Oh yeah. Somehow we found, I used to say that all the time.

There's an AI for that. 

Yes. That used to, I used to say it like a catchphrase, but, um, you know, 

yeah. There is actually wasn't the only one. There is actually a website called that and it and it, but I've had to unsubscribe 'cause it's too much information. I'm already, you know, it's 

overwhelming. 

Yeah.

Already spoken. There are so 

many AI options out there for people. 

Yeah, and it, and again, it's death by choice. O overwhelm, isn't it? Like, um, there's just so much choice. So anyway, I've paid my subscription for this, um, um, RA ai and for those that are curious, it's, um, it was 188 US dollars for a whole year, so about two 80 Aussie dollars for a whole year.

And I thought, I do need help with, it's, it's more the. Um, what do you call integrative approach that I need to now start doing systematically in my business? So if I give you just an over, I mean, I am still just what I would say, scratching the surface of what it can do. I mean, it definitely does all the standard stuff.

Um, it'll, it'll take, um. Your voice transcript and create a blog, and it will even create images for you. So it does have the generative AI imagery, which is handy, and you can feed it off like most, um, image generators. You can feed it your brand colors and get it to produce images that look on brand for you.

Um, that part is still a little bit in development too, but I've, it, it has come up with some pretty good imagery for me so far. Mm-hmm. But now. I'm like, right, okay, I need to actually double my revenue next year. And it's told me that's a very ambitious target. And I've said, yes, I know, but it is ambitious and possibly not realistic, but it's actually, uh, something I need to do because, you know, I've been going through quite a lot of personal upheaval in previous years and I've just been staying afloat and, um, now I really need to.

Get my stuff together and, and start being efficient and productive. So it's got, um, um, where are we just pulling up the latest, um, um, chats that I've had with it later. 

Did it, did it tell you to do you over Bali retreat next year? 

It ha it does keep telling me that my re retreats are going, are an important part of my business model and I, and I, my resistance to that is through the roof at the moment, but yes.

I, I want you to do another retreat. Kate, 

do you, would you come, Sam, and help me? 

I, I'll, I'll come. I'll do, I'll do it. I'll do it. 

And help me was the important part of it. Yeah. 

Because Kate, I know this is a, this is a side note, but the, the, your retreat is the butterfly flapping its wings. Mm. And the full extent of the impact of that retreat.

Is something that happens long after the retreat, so I want, we won't keep talking about it, but. I want you to think about that. 

Thank you for saying that. Yeah. Because you do start wondering what is the impact, but I do know it's that getting away from the grind and in a different, new sacred space and having the time to think expansively, it does make a big difference.

Yes. Yeah. Mm. Okay. Well thank you for that. 'cause that, um, my business development agent called Buddy also thinks I should be doing retreat. 

Well, there you go. I love Buddy. 

Yeah. So. Um, I asked, and, and the trick with Citra I found with the different agents is you actually have to ask them to give you advice on things.

So I asked Buddy, how would you suggest I start using Citra in my business to get organized and double my revenue next year? And he says, um, okay, well, what you first need to do is centralize your knowledge and documents, get all your business plans, your frameworks, your marketing assets, your SOPs into the brain, ai.

So I thought, well, that's good. I've got some of it in there. I probably don't have all of it in there, and I probably could be a bit more structured and organized on that front. Next one. It says, um, map out revenue goals and milestones. So use RA's, um, analysis to document and to document your, uh, um, and outline your current revenue.

Set your targets, and break it down into quarterly, monthly goals. Create checklists and action plans for each milestone. For example, you might be launching a new offer of service, increasing retreat bookings. You might be, you know, what are those things? Um, so number one was centralize your knowledge.

Number two was map out your revenue goals and milestones. Number three is systemize your marketing and sales activities store. Um, develop and store your marketing calendar. And RA is really good with that. Once you give it a plan, it keeps reminding you, you can do this today according to your plan. You could do that.

Um, it's very good at proactively prompting you with stuff that you do. Right? Hmm. You can track leads and client progress. So you can use Citra to log leads, track client journeys and document follow up actions. Um, you can tag your notes by clients or programs for easy retrieval. You can analyze what's working so you can actually link, um, Google Analytics to the analytics part of agent.

Right. I was wondering about integrations because when you were talking about uploading all this stuff into RA and I was like, oh, if, if it had a Google Drive, 

it does 

integration. It does. Well, how good is that? Yeah, it. Go to this folder in my Google Drive 'cause it's all in there. 

You can't actually do that yet.

That is in development. What you can do, it will save it to your Google Drive. And that's one of the development, um, complaints at the moment is it's great that you just dump it in my Google Drive, but I then have to go in and organize it, you know, so that that part, the choose folder a bit is still in development, but that will come because people are actively complaining about that.

Yes. Um, but it does. You can connect, um, your Google Analytics and uh, obviously your website and, um, your financial, it doesn't integrate with Xero, but like you and I know Sam, it's just, just upload your p and ls or any financial reports that you Yes, 

yes. And look, we do have to, we do have to preface this by saying that it's all good and well to say, oh, you know, just, just integrate it with, you know, this platform and that platform, the process that.

Businesses have to go through, these tech businesses have to go through to pass all the tests to allow, you know, the organization, organizations like Xero to get an API that will communicate with Xero. There are a lot of hoops to jump through because it's financial information. That's right. Yeah. So, you know, it, it, it's, it's wonderful to sit there and go, oh, just integrate.

But it, it's a really in-depth process to be able to do that. 

Yeah, that's right. And I'm not too bothered about just going into Xero and downloading a report and upload, you know, that does that part. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah. Um, it, look, that's, that it'll be, that'll happen in the future. I think so. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. That's on the horizon. Um, and then how long is 

it gonna be before the first ai, like we. You know how accountant, there's all always a story about an accountant that rips off the client's money. Yeah. How long is it gonna be before there's an AI that steals all the money? 

Oh, yeah. Let's, um, yeah, let's hope that anyway.

Yeah. Yes. We just take all of this with a pinch of salt. That's right. Because we have the Yes. Things crashing and so on if, but yeah. Um, it does also integrate with your social channels, um, LinkedIn and Meta. So you can post directly and schedule within, which is a huge, um, you can 

schedule 

yes. And post from within ra.

So create posts and um, schedule and post. So that's a big bonus, which I love all of that included. So just to finish off on what Buddy told me, he said I should obviously yes. Analyze what's working. Um. Uh, collaborate and reflect. He says, if you work with collaborators, I can help you find strategic partners that would be a good fit for your business and develop scripts to reach out to them, you know?

Yeah. And then build repeatable systems. So document your successful processes so you can scale and delegate as you grow, as you grow. And I've asked it to give me a checklist so that I can then work through those things. Yes. Um. Yeah. So, um, it then can, so what I'm using it to do at the moment is help me figure out a good business model next year to double my review.

So saying, this is what I've been doing this year. It's not working. How I needed to give me, give me some ideas on what I could do differently to, to double. Um, and it's been really helpful so far, and it's making me think about different ideas and, and it's, it's, someone said to me the other day, he's a, an older gentleman in his early, I say late, late sixties, he's a business management consultant.

Highly, highly trained and specialist in I ISO systems and creating. Order out of chaotic businesses, you know, that have, and he's his comment, he's been using Cintra. He's one of the people that's mentioned it to me as being a game changer for them. And his comment was, it's amazing, Kate. I've got a sounding board.

On tap any time of the day. I just ask it a question and it, it gives me, its, it gives me its thoughts. 'cause it, you know, we've, they've had long conversations and it knows his plan and where he wants to go. He knows all the nuances. This man's Scottish, so it's got all, all the cultural stuff, everything.

And he said, um, whenever I'm stuck, I just ask. I just asked Buddy, you know, and, and, um, he said, I no longer feel alone in my business. And I just thought, oh my 

god, Kate. On one hand, how amazing is that? And on the other hand, how terribly sad is that? 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I did say to him, bless, I'm so happy that you have your team around you now.

And yeah, I mean, he's got great support people around him and colleagues and so on, but it's not the same as having. Private in, you know, we don't wanna share everything about the intricacies of our business with everyone. Like, you know, that we have the worst month ever, like, or whatever, you know? Um, you don't wanna necessarily share the full transparency around your financials or, um, you know, but, so having that space where there's no trust, it's just simple little agentic bots analyzing information and feeding back to you what it sees.

And so there's no, um. Yeah, I think that part of it, when he said that, yeah, I, I did all just, it hit me in the heart too. I went, oh, I'm so glad that you feel supported in your business now. And, and I have to say, I felt that excitement too, um, having this little team of agents helping me just work through stuff.

So, yeah. Yeah. And, and someone said to me, aren't you worried that by sharing this information with your clients, that you're putting yourself out of a job? Um, you know, because obviously Buddy, he's a business development manager, he does what we do. He advises people on strategy and so on, and yeah.

You still have to be able to discern yes, what is right for you and what is wrong for you. Exactly. Yeah. But you still need a level of education, information, knowledge, experience to be able to determine which path is the right one, because otherwise. You know, just following the lead from AI could be a really devastating path to 

Go ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not worried at all. And like you say, Sam, I mean it, it has suggested some things and I've gone, nah, I've tried that before and I don't, you know, it's not really me. Uh, it's, yeah. Um, yes. And it's not profitable and yeah, so, um, it's great at generating ideas. You do have to have the discernment to know what is the right path.

And, and you're right. Um, and, and I. Don't hide my use of AI with my clients at all. In fact, I'll quite often, yeah, whether if I'm coaching someone just say, well, let's see what Claude says, or let's see what now, or now it'll be, let's see what Buddy says. And um, yes, I don't think it's, and I, I do know some people that hide their use of AI and, but I actually think part of our job.

As business coaches is educating small business owners on how to use AI and, and use it well in your business to Yeah, because absolutely. Some of my clients have been blown away where I'll say, well, let's go in and let's, let's just as an example, have a lovely client in Melbourne who, she's been with me for years, and, um, she produces affirmation card decks.

She's a, um, co clinical counselor and, and she produces these beautiful decks and. She'd done all these beautiful eBooks and she said, oh, it's taken me so long to write the, the cards and, and there's 52 cards. And I said to, why don't you just use ai? She said, what do you mean? And I said, well, you've done all the hard work.

You've, you've created all your ip. Let's put it in, put it into Claude. Let's upload your eBooks. Let's, um, give it your website or your social, you know, social media and yeah, let's ask it to write a deck of 52 affirmation cards in line with your four pillars. And we did it in less than three minutes. She just went, oh my God.

Just like, just, it had taken her a week just to do six cards or something, and now she did the whole 52 deck in a few minutes and, and, and the language was so on point for her and yes, like, oh my goodness, I need to do a front cover, back cover. So in one session we got, we, we did the, um, drafted the, you know, the table of contents.

We drafted the back page, the blurb or everything, and so we could go to the printer. And speed the whole process up and say, can you please do a quote and then just start that process instead of being stuck in the creation phase? Um, yes. And so now she's harnessing that in her business to be way more efficient in how she does things.

Now she's onto the second, um, set of cards 'cause she wants to eventually have four sets that each, each of the pillars. And, um, and so I feel like I've given her a gift by showing her how you can use these tools to create massive efficiencies in your business. Yeah. Yes. 

Because what are we going into, you know, one of the reasons we all go into business for ourselves is to have more time.

Mm-hmm. 

So, you know, being able to use these tools so that you can, you know, I'm out in my office, I have my stacking slide doors wide open. The sun is shining. Hmm. How nice that at any time, apart from while we're doing this podcast, but I can just sit outside and enjoy the sunshine. 

Oh yeah. 

Well, AI has done, because AI has cut my day down by two thirds.

Mm. That's the whole point. I think 

it's, I, I do see this as a gift to, to small business owners because it's, yes, you have to wear all the hats in small business, and if you have a tool that helps you cut down the time you need to do on each one of those things, then all the better. And plus, it helps you see things you might not see yourself and come up with ideas you haven't come up with yourself.

And. Yeah. And that systemizing and automating is something that, yeah, I, I want to have a plan around that for next year. Just for, 'cause I am classic for, you know, a just not systemizing repeated repetitive processes. Like a client will, you know, request a, um, a proposal and I'll pull out one that I sent to a previous client and, and, um, and adapted or, but.

It takes me, you know, time to go and find, I'm just not organized. I'm not a naturally organized person in that way, and I need to be, I wanna create those time efficiencies. I know you are, Sam, you're very systematic and organized. Um, 

yes. But here, here's the, here's where I ha I have a great love affair and admiration of systems and organization.

Hmm. But I love creating the system and I love organizing. Once it's done, I have to play with it because that's the fun part for me, is setting all that up. I don't wanna keep using it. That's boring. 

Just wanna set it up. 

I wanna, which is why I've been moving over into, into helping. People do that. Yeah.

Because that's, that's my joy. I find it so much fun. Gimme your messy business and let me sort it all out for you. Set up the systems and then let me move on to the next mess because I don't wanna be there for the boring part of just having to tick over nicely. Let the other in business owners go to enjoy that.

That's so interesting. Yeah. I, um. I know you're the systems girl and, um, you're so naturally good at it. Um, and, and it seems you say that the, the exciting part for you is the. The actual cleaning up the mess and, and getting it working, and then it's boring. You move on. And so I was talking with a business coach last week.

He won't touch small businesses unless they're over 300 k, over three staff and over three years in business. And he often says, why do you deal with startups? And I said, because I love the challenge of getting a business established and, and, and when it, when it's hit 300 k. You know, over three staff and then that becomes an efficiency challenge.

It becomes a people recruitment challenge. That's boring to me. I love the thrill of the chase and actually going to market and establishing a market share and all. And um, and then it just, and then once it's established, it's boring it to me. 'cause I don't have, I'm, yeah, it's, it's just interesting that you said the same thing, but for systems, the fun for you is in Yeah.

Figuring out which systems and setting them up. And once they're working it's boring. So. 

Yes. And you know, and, and that's, that's the joy for me is giving, giving business owners boredom instead of stress. 

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Yes. It's, um, it's, um. Uh, it's just interesting to hear you say, say that, uh, and I'm glad there's people out there like us who are helping these, these small businesses with.

Absolutely. 

Yeah. Yeah. And look, if more people started with UK to get set up properly, you, you, there would be less people for me to work with because I, I've moved out of that startup market because I need to work with people that are up and running and they've created a mess. 

It's working, but it's messy and it's inefficient.

It's like, what the hell is going on? Yeah. 

Yeah. And then you can diagnose how you could, um, automate different parts of the business. Tie it all together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. 

Using tools like RA help you get started, this is how you need to use it, and all of that sort of stuff. 

Yeah, so I'm excited to dive deeper.

I hadn't, um, I didn't get as far into centra as I would like for this conversation. Yes. But it's a work in progress, like everything, and I'm hopeful at the moment that it was a good, um, and I mean, you know, $288, it's a significant investment, but it's also, um. It was an easy yes for me. Just, um, it's not a massive investment, if you know what I mean, but yeah, I'm still committed.

I'm committed to making it work. The other, the other thing I would like to mention is that it can have unlimited other spaces on there. So I've set up a space for all of my clients that I'm working with, with their brain. So I've, um, created their, their own brain AI so that we can, um. You know, if I've got a produce, a marketing schedule for one client, for example, I'm using Citra to help me do that with all of its, that client is in Canada and now 

that is a game changer.

Yeah. I did not know RA had that capability. 

Yes. At the moment I've got, um. Five other five clients, all with their own workspace and brains that are populated with their own information and it's working really well so far. I mean, just for simple things like. Yeah, like this, you know, one client needed to rework her LinkedIn profile, so that was easy.

That was a two minute job. I went into syn, ro went to her thing, um, where all her, 'cause we've previously done a website copy and then two minutes and perfect LinkedIn headers and bio were just written. So being able to yeah, have a structured place where your business is there plus. Any other businesses that you, and I can't say that there's a limit anywhere.

I've never seen that there is a limit to the number of workspaces you can have. Um, but yeah, it, I, I do love that structured way of, it's segmenting different businesses. 

Yeah, well look in, in my research on RA and in some of the reviews and demos that I went through, you know, and I, I, I went down the central rabbit hole on YouTube and in Reddit and all that sort of stuff.

And one thing I did pick up was that a lot of people who were using it successfully did say it's a good month of. Focused work with it. Yeah. To, to feel confident in, in how you're using it and to really get into using it properly. So you are only a week in Kate? 

Yeah, that's right. Yes. Um, and so I 

feel like there needs to be a follow up episode on this.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Especially now that we're coming up to the end of the year, which means business planning and looking ahead to next year and, and, yeah, I think we will. Everyone 

starts hitting panic mode soon because you know, everything they said they were gonna do in January isn't done. 

Yeah. 

Yep, that's right.

Panicking about everything they haven't done and panicking about, you know, everything that they feel like they should be doing and 

yeah. Yeah, that's right. And so, um, yeah, it would be good to do another one, maybe just before Christmas or in starting the new year about business planning and, 'cause I've, I've got, uh, what is it, a contentious relationship with goal setting and business planning.

Oh, I know, I do too. I do too. And I was actually listening to a podcast the other day, and. The person that was being interviewed was a mindset coach and, and he's, oh my gosh, he's so very, very good at what he does. Mm-hmm. What he was saying about goals was that we need to really focus on letting go of setting these goals that have been.

Kind of put on us by culture and by society. Yes. Correct. Which you're thinking this is what you should want. Yes. And you do that and then you don't achieve it because deep down in your soul, that's not what you really want to. Yes. So we, we've gotta set goals based on what we really, really want. 

Exactly.

And I would love to do an episode, not 

what we're supposed to watch. 

I would love to do an episode on that, because I have in, in the past, um. Done. Done goal setting well, where I didn't put specific boundaries around how that thing should show up that I wanted, it was yes. And it goes back to the Danielle LaPorte core desired feelings concept.

I dunno if you, you know her, but 

yeah. Setting goals around a desired feeling as opposed to setting goals around. Tangible. 

Yes. Because that's where we get upset and let down. It didn't turn out the way we want. Our logical brain said we wanted it to, but something else happened and it still gave us that feeling and it was closer.

Yeah. So you, yeah. That whole process of letting go and trusting that when you're clear on how you want to feel, which is what you were saying, what do you actually want? How do you wanna feel? Yeah. And let go of how that shows up in your life. 

Yeah. 

That's when true freedom and I, but last January, I got caught in the left brain.

Um, I don't know what I was doing, but I thought, right, I'm gonna plan out my year because I guess I was in a bit of fear having just, you know, recently separated and, and, and thinking you were 

stepping in a whole new world this year. Yeah. 

And think, and it was more outta fear, right? I need to make this much money doing that, and that and that.

And none of it worked out the way I intended or planned. When you said people getting into the end of the year and realizing they haven't done what, well, that's just totally derailed for me. I'm not even looking at, back at what I planned. It just didn't turn out the way I thought it should in any way, shape or form.

But I have learned and grown so much. And I am in a place where I have a bit more clarity now about what I really want and what I actually could be doing, which is closer to my heart. And so setting goals that way next year. So I, that'll be an interesting episode when I feed centra my core desired feelings and 

Yes.

And do my business planning around that. So yeah. Watch this space. 

Yeah. What, what a Kate's actual goals. Mm mm. Yeah. What are my actual goals? What, what? What are they gonna be for next year? Yeah. Yes. We need, let's do the episode on goal setting live with ai. 

Oh, yes. That would be fascinating. 

Mm-hmm. Yep. 

Yes.

Okay. Sometimes it's scary when I'm having a little bit of a deep dive with AI at the thing, you know, at the insights they throw back at me and I was like, oh my goodness. How did you know that about me? 

Well, the other thing, Sam, that you taught me was the human design element. 

Yes. Yes. 

So if you've got your blueprint, your, your human design blueprint, which is your astrological when you're born and your, your natural personality feeding, that is gonna be fascinating.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I, oh gosh. I, I've been leaning on that very, very heavily in recent weeks, in particular with my husband and, and some changes that are going on in our business and. Trying to change the relationship we have when it comes to talking about business, because I now, I have this understanding of the way that I operate, and I'm very much like in the moment I can decide based on a gut feeling.

Mm-hmm. So when I did Dave's human design. And realized he is not designed to make decisions that way. He is the sort of person that has to sit on things and stew on it and think it over, and I come in like a steam train saying, come on, let's go. Let like choose one or two. Let's do it because that's how I do it.

Yeah. So now I know I have to drip feed this. Mm-hmm. And I have to be patient and wait for these things to settle in and for things to be mulled over before he can decide on anything. Otherwise, he's overwhelmed and he chooses nothing. He doesn't decide on anything. We don't move. 

Yeah. So that's another whole really important element in all of this is, is actually aligning whatever you do in centra with your, your natural personality and things that you can't change about yourself.

It's just a wiring of how we are wired. Yeah. And, and having AI understand that's the limits we're working with here. Like, you know. Yes. 

Don't ask me to do that, because that's not me. 

Yeah. But also, these are the things I'm really good at, so how do I do more of those and Yeah. 

Yeah. And also being able to understand what, what is a glass ceiling or a limitation for you versus what is not in your wiring.

That's right. 

Because you don't wanna confuse those two things that, so you don't wanna limit your from, you know, stop yourself from doing things that you could be doing, but you just, you know. 

Don't want outside comfort zone. Yeah. Well, this has been an awesome chat, Sam. Thank you. Watch this face, everyone.

We will keep you updated with our learnings in as always, and we hope it's been helpful and that you can go forth and be productive and efficient in your own businesses and let us know how you go. Thanks so much everyone. Bye. Bye. 

Thanks for listening in. If you'd like to learn more about working with me, Sam, or Kate, you can find me at theo8.com, Or reach out to kate@katedejong.com. Have a great day.