When Life Hits: How to Build a Business That Runs Without You

In this episode, Kate and Sam welcome special guest Joanne Ross Wells, founder of JRW Bridal, an established custom couture bridal brand in Perth, WA. Joanne shares her journey as a global citizen from growing up in Rhodesia, spending time in London and the USA, being born in New Zealand and immigrating to Australia eight years ago. Jo then built her successful business from the ground up.

Joanne opens up about the significant curveballs life has thrown her way in recent years, including major health setbacks and family challenges. She reveals the crucial business shifts she was forced to make, like outsourcing production and learning to delegate, which ultimately led to unexpected freedom and growth.

This conversation is a must-listen for any entrepreneur struggling with work-life balance, the fear of outsourcing, or tying their personal identity too closely to their business success. Joanne offers powerful lessons on shifting your mindset from "sales" to "service," embracing continuous learning (especially in social media and AI), and the importance of finding your purpose beyond the bottom line.

Episode Highlights:

• The Global Citizen Entrepreneur: Joanne's fascinating heritage (Scottish, South African, born in NZ) and how it influences the global flavour in her design collections.
• From Lingerie to Couture: The evolution of Joanne’s creative journey, from making lingerie as a farmer's wife in Zimbabwe to studying fashion design at age 40.
• Learning to Dance in the Rain: How Joanne navigated multiple major life challenges (health, family struggles) and structured her business to prioritise relationships over work, thanks to being her own boss.
• The Freedom of Letting Go: The pivotal moment when Joanne realised that outsourcing production was the necessary path to gaining empty space for creative ideas and avoiding burnout.
• Identity Crisis in Business: Why entrepreneurs, especially women and personal brands, often struggle with wrapping their self-worth around their business success (and Sam and Kate share their own identity shifts).
• The Power of Purpose: Joanne's discovery that reading reviews and focusing on the positive impact she has on her brides' wedding days is enough to drive her, shifting focus from ego to service.
• The Key Mindset Shift: How Joanne overcame being a "shocking salesperson" by changing her focus from "sales" to "service", always seeking to be of service to the bride.
• Navigating AI & Innovation: How designers are embracing new tools like 3D body scans and virtual try-ons, and why expertise and wisdom remain crucial even with advancements in AI.
• Niche Networking: Joanne's advice on shifting from broad networking to focused, niche relationship-building with targeted referral partners (like photographers and venues).
• The 10,000-Hour Rule: Why founders must develop core skills (like pattern making or production) before outsourcing to maintain quality control and avoid getting burned.

Are you ready to stop wear

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness ✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew ✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

Transcript

 Good afternoon everybody, and welcome back to the Thriving Business Podcast, and I'm happy to be joined today by my co-host in Melbourne. Sam, as always, hi Sam. Hello. Hello. Nice to have you here. And we are also honored to have with us a very special guest, Joanne Ross Wells, founder of JRW Bridal. Welcome, Joe.

Hi. Thanks, Kate. Thanks, Sam. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story, um, because I know you have a powerful story backstory, but also your business building journey has been, um, a really successful one. But like everyone, all business building journeys come with significant challenge as well.

So, um, yeah, we we're really honored to have you on the show today to share your, your journey and yeah, JRW Bridal, um, for those of you that don't know, is a very, um. I would say you're a very well known brand in Perth in the, in the, um, custom couture space, wouldn't you say? For bridal gowns? Yeah. It took, took a lot of perseverance.

Mm-hmm. When I came eight years ago, I thought it would be an easy entry. It was, it was, yeah. Quite hard to break breakthrough. So you, and that actually. I'm not sure I ever knew. It was only eight years that you've been here in Perth, is that right? So you immigrated? Yeah, from South Africa. Last week we landed eight years ago.

We were actually in London for a couple of years before that and I was in Zi for six years. Born in New Zealand, had time in Tom Price here in WA as a toddler. And then. Um, yeah, my mum left with us three girls and went to her family in, in then Rhodesia. So grew up there but traveled the world and I've done full circle back to Perth, so it feels great.

Yeah. Tom Price, gosh, I dunno. Many people that spent time in Tom Price, I spent a year or two in Tom Price as a kid as well. So for our listeners, that's a mining town up in the northwest. Pilbara, um, the Pilbara region of wa, it's red dust and hot. 40 degree days and Yeah. Yeah. Hardcore, but also a beautiful part of the planet.

Yeah. And one of my best custom brides last year was, uh, is based in Tom Price, so that was Oh, wow. Yeah, it was quite amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So that's fascinating. Um, heritage then, is your mother New Zealand? Uh, from New Zealand? No, um, my mom was South African. My dad was Scots. Um, they went to New Zealand to help his family run a hotel and I came along.

So it was just, yeah, lucky, right. Lucky a place to get born because it just opened up, you know, all the opportunities for me to come. Back to the side of the world, so, and I wonder where your parents met originally? In Zambia. Mm. So, yeah, and I've, yeah, lived in London and did a year in the States as well.

So I sort of incorporate that whole global vibe into my collections and. Love working with people from sort of different backgrounds and um, mm-hmm. So definitely got that, that, um, you're a global citizen. You've got that flavor in your designs. And for those of you that want to look Joe up, it's jrw bridal.com au.

Yeah. You've got some beautiful collections there. They're really stunning pieces, just exquisite. So, Joe, can you take us back to, um, how you started out on your own? So when you arrived in Australia eight years ago, was that the first time you'd had your own business? No. So, um, I had a previous life. I was married to a farmer in Zimbabwe for 20 years and did the farm books and things, but I wasn't a very good farmer's wife.

I started making lingerie. And I used to travel to farming districts with my little collection, and I would custom make lingerie, which led into swimwear. And um, so I've always had the sort of entrepreneurial, uh, creative side to me. And the design. Yeah. Yeah. When we moved to Perth, I. Was still doing swimwear and bridal.

It was a strange combination and I had to make a decision and I just thought, you know what? People will always get married. It's something I can always enjoy doing, but I'm now full circle. I'm looking at doing a little honeymoon lingerie section. And, you know, swimwear to go with it. 'cause I used to do handmade crochet in white with the swimwear.

And it's things like that when they sit on your heart, you just like, yeah, no, there's, uh, here I am trying to back off a little bit and I've got all these other ideas. Yeah. Yeah. So they may be a little honeymoon. Um. Section coming to the website in the next couple of years. Beautiful. And 'cause lace. Um, it sounds like you've always had a, you've always gravitated towards lace and crochet, the feminine side of design.

Yeah, and I'm, at the moment I'm working with, um, hand embroiders in India and we creating the fabrics and laces. So I'm like, my one custom bride at the moment is an artist by nature. So she's loving being a part of the process and actually creating the lace for her dress. Nevermind the design and the style.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, so, oh, there's just, I wish I had two of me to do it all. I've just got too many ideas. Yeah. Uh, but the reality of life and trying to balance that family and business is, is always the biggest challenge. Yeah. So before we started recording today, I was filling Sam in on the backstory that of Joe's, um, life over the last few years, which has had not just one, but maybe five or six big curve balls thrown in.

Right? Yeah. And when, what do they say? When it rains, it storms and it pause. Yeah. Pause, pause, pause. That's it. Thank you for the, I'm not good with vernacular. Thank you. And, and the one I always throw in with that, Kate, is, you know, learn to dance in the rain. Mm. Yes, because you've got to, you've gotta go with it.

If you fight it too much, then I think it's exhausting. And that's when we have the burnout. And I remember having a conversation with you after your knee op, um, had not gone well. Is that that? How long ago is that now? 18 months ago. Yeah, about 18 months. And I remember you were battling because you're a part of my online mastermind, and you were saying that you really wanted to be there, but you couldn't, and you were dealing with this, you know, this sort of frustration that you also had all these ideas for your business.

You were pivoting and going more into wholesale and all these things you wanted to do, and then this happened. And then, um, and then the neop didn't turn out how you'd expected. And it was a lot more longer and more complicated than you ever anticipated. And then your daughter's, um, health struggles came into the play as well.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, one thing, so my hubby's my business partner and financial advisor, accountant guy. Okay. Um, and the one thing I've always said to him that, especially when we were heading over to London and it was gonna be quite hectic as passionate, is what I am with the business and what I do.

My relationships are number one. So as I've gone through the business journey, I've always known that I have to allow for time for, for the people in my life that matter, and that's my clients as well. So my brides are right up there, but when it comes to family and, and when you are the ones someone's gotta lean on, it's, it's just a real bonus that.

You in your own business that you can structure it to, to sort of accommodate that. So I never quite expected to be tested as much as I have been, but, uh. Yeah. It's, it's making sure that you have got a team or a system behind you that can, um, you know, yeah. Support you through that. Yeah. I'm quite amazed that you've managed to keep the business going and, and that, you know, when I started outsourcing production, it was maybe 20% I was outsourcing, and I realized the more I did, the more I needed to outsource.

And that's been great because even with my knee. I could sit on my bed with my leg up, still chatting to production, getting everything checked out, and my, my clients weren't suffering. So, um, and with the wholesale, like I said to you earlier, being able to rely on the ladies in the shop to deal with the brides, send dresses for alteration, it just.

That helps for things to keep flowing. Mm-hmm. But it took a long time to set that up because in the beginning I was doing it all, you know, wearing all the hats and it mm-hmm. That's a important message. Yeah, it's a lot to carry. It's a really important message. And Sam and I find that really hard, that conversation with clients around letting go and outsourcing, and some people need a lot of coaxing and it takes years to finally let go of control.

And, but like you said, what I find, um, when clients do finally outsource or delegate. Um, and then exactly what you said, you realized you needed to do more. Like that was the path to more freedom and more Yeah. Um, money and time and like all these ideas that I've, that I've got, I need that empty space to be able to work with those.

Mm. That I've gotta allow, allow that empty space to be part of the calendar, you know? Mm. Which you can't do when you're wearing all it ground out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, and um, so learning to let go and, um. Having the courage to start outsourcing and delegating. I mean, in your case, you were almost forced into that position.

Right. Which, yeah. Is a, is a blessing in disguise maybe because it's now put you in this position where you can see the path ahead, where um, you can be the creative person and outsource the production. Yeah. Given you new freedom. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think also, just looking back to those early years here in Perth, I think one of the dangers.

Um, that I was facing is I wrapped up my identity in the business and when I was going through a really hard time, like when I met up with you for that coffee, um, it was, it was like, I felt like I was failing because the business wasn't advancing as quickly as I expected it to. Mm-hmm. And I. Eventually got to the point where I, I thought, this is crazy.

I know who I am. I know my strengths, my weaknesses. This is okay if the business needs to pivot or have a little shift. It's not failure, it's just the growth of the business. Mm-hmm. But I think especially, um, I've got a daughter-in-law who runs her own restaurant and we were chatting about it. And she went through the same, and it's sort of at that three year period where you realize you've put too much of who you are.

Uh, the identity with your business is, is too strong. Mm-hmm. You sort of have to step back or I, I found for me, I had to step back and think, this is who I am, this is my business, this is the reason I'm doing it. Mm. Um, and just sort of. Have a little bit of a division between the two, and I was like writing all my values down for my business and my personal ones and they're very similar.

Mm. But they are two different entities. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think as women we maybe fall into that trap. More easily. Mm-hmm. I may be wrong, but that's just, you know, we go so much with emotion and our intuition and all those things and Yeah. When it's your business, you package it all up together. Yeah. Well, I think especially as a personal brand, which the three of us kind of are, um, although Sam, I'm excited to hear about the big launch that you've just put out there in the world of your new, the oh eight.

Is that it? Yes it is. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I'd love to hear all about that. But, um, so Sam can probably speak to that identity thing too, 'cause you've been a personal brand, Sam as Sam Morris, the coach. Yeah. But not even that Kate. Um, the, the whole challenge of identity and who you are. The first time that I butted up against that was when I first discharged from the Navy.

Because I very much had my identity tied up in that world because it's not just a job, you know, it's the community and everything that you're kind of separating from. You know, I know it's a physical uniform that you're putting on every day, but it says a it, you know, for serving members it says a lot about who you are and there is a definite identity crisis when you don't have that anymore.

Yeah, I can totally relate to that. Even just the title engineer before, not the same, but similar that my, I realize. Stepping away from that, how much my identity was wrapped up in, in that, because it seems to command sort of instant respect or credibility from people. And then if you're not that and you're just a, a coach, like who are, you know?

Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah, and I think too because, you know, we, we started these careers in, in our twenties, and really when you look back at the, at that young age, you don't fully know who you are. So you attach yourself to what you do, and then when you don't have that thing you do anymore, you have to do the exploration of, well, who am I without it?

And really learn a lot about yourself and, and how you are gonna identify, because you realize you can't attach yourself to what you do anymore. Yeah. But Joe, your, your journey's been a bit, um, I suppose different in that respect. 'cause being the farmer's wife, that was, did you see yourself in that identity for 20 years?

Well, funny enough, growing up I never thought I would be a farmer's wife. I was gonna be this international sort of more corporate person. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I think coming to Perth it was sort of. Realizing my vision as a designer. Um, and part of the whole thing with doing the notes for today, I thought it's trying to understand why you're driven to do what you are doing.

Mm-hmm. What is the purpose behind it? Mm. And one of my things was I wanted to be an international designer. I had to step back and think. But why is that important? Mm-hmm. Why is that driving me? Is it for my own ego, or who, who am I trying to prove to that I'm an international designer? Um, you know, and it, it's sort of, it's just being dead honest with yourself so that you can understand why you're doing what you're doing.

And is it, is it the right reasons to be doing what I'm Exactly. Yeah. And what have you found and how important is it, you know? Yeah. People gonna like you any less? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. We think, we probably think they will, but that's just something in our own minds. And again, it goes back to tying up who you are in what you're doing.

Mm. I think we just put too much weight on that. So, but you've seem quite at peace lately with where you're at and who you are. And so what's your discovery there about your identity and, and what, what you're doing and why you're doing it? I think what helped me is I, whenever I was having, um, sort of feeling a bit down with the business, I would read back through reviews from my brides.

Mm-hmm. And just reading the impact and the difference that you've had. On someone's waiting day. Mm. That's enough. You know, even to impact teen people in that way. I thought that's enough. I don't need thousands. Yeah. Um, so I had to just take a step back, focus on what I'm dealing with at the moment with all the health and family, um, dramas going on, so.

Yeah, it's just, I think it comes down to just being really honest with why you're doing it and Yeah. And you found yourself, yourself through it. You know? Sometimes we quite hard on ourselves. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sam, what burning questions do you have for Joe? Well, first of all, I love Joe, that you've reached that evolved state that you can separate yourself.

Uh, because, because it is a really big challenge. And I think what I'm hearing from you is what I hope other people are hearing when they hear you talk, and that is that understanding who you are and why you're doing things means that you can pick that up and put it anywhere, which allows you to have the detachment from the business.

That that's the way I see, yeah. You right now is that you know who you are and you know what you're bringing to the world. So whether that's in your business or with your family, because you, you said the relationships are the most important. Yeah. So it does that separation from only being able to get that from your business, I think it is just beautiful.

Mm. Um, I would love to know because. Sewing is definitely a lost art. Um, designing is like, what you do is so highly creative. Yeah. Where, where did that creativity show up for you when you were younger? Like how, how did it show up that led you to designing these beautiful wedding gowns? Well, I suppose. Um, as a young girl, my dolls and bits of fabric and scraps were always part of my life.

Um, my mom had an old singer machine that I hated because the, the threads always snapped and got stuck and it was never serviced. So I never thought that sewing was gonna, um. And then my last year of school we did a lip sync and I ended up designing and making the outfits for everyone. And I thought, oh, that was actually really fun, you know, um, it was a George Michael Wham thing.

Oh, cool. And, you know, everything was in white. And of course all of us had different body shapes and, um, so I made all this kit and then, um. As a young mom started making Christmas pres for the family and it was little nineties and gowns. Then I ended up meeting a woman in Cape Town one year who did all the little lace underwear.

So I got involved with that, and then every time I was in Johannesburg, I would do these little mini courses on underwires and bras and with an Italian woman. So the lingerie developed, and from that I'm like, well, I can do swimwear if I can do, you know, underwear, I can do swimwear. And then I got into creating the fabrics for the swimwear.

Mm-hmm. Um, and it just, and it's why, and then I, uh, got divorced at 40. Left Zimbabwe, went to the Gold Coast and studied fashion design as a 40-year-old. Nice. And it was the best thing. And then from there I got more into couture and, uh, it all evolved, but it took me quite a while to let go of the swimwear, just because it was such a fun element of it.

Mm. So, yeah, that's, that's it in a nutshell. Salmon. I love it. I love that story because there are threads from your life that, you know, bring anybody who's got any kind of entrepreneurial spirit that there is those threads in their life that show us how, how you got to where you are, but. Yeah. Even in, in my mind, I'm thinking swimwear to bridal, to wedding dresses, that is still a massive leap in, in the skill required to make the dresses, but also the design elements that go into that extraordinary.

Mm-hmm. And that's why studying at 40. I had been doing, like I made four wedding dresses by that stage, but I used to measure the brides and plotted on graph paper. So by the time I went and studied and learned how to pattern make and construction, I was just like a sponge. I was like, oh, that's why you, you do it this way.

And I was like learning all the shortcuts and it was just so exciting. Um, so yeah, I think the timings for me, even though it was all a bit different to your average designer, uh, it was, it was right for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's the, you often, those threads that you're talking about, Sam, that end up coming together.

Um, it's the things that you can't not do, isn't it? The thing that you keep getting drawn to over and over and Yeah. Um, yeah. And I remember, um, working through your vision, Joe, and I was just reminding myself on your website, um, about your bridal radiance that you, that's, that's the what you love. Seeing the bride radiate.

Right? Yeah. That's what drives you. And you've got the three different components, the fun and interactive. You've got the passion part of what you do, then the sustainability part. Um, yeah. Yeah. And then you've got the inspire, explore and be inspired and, and inspiring confidence in your brides. Yeah. And it is, it's, it's really rewarding.

Um. And I, I dunno if it's my background or what, but when a bride starts talking about her vision, within 30 minutes, I'm sketching it and drawing it. Mm-hmm. And nine times out of 10, they're like, you've pulled that out of my head. Right. Like, how did you do that? But that's your gift. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, it is a gift.

Um. Understanding the elements that go into it, like the technical aspects and just being able to guide them to something that's gonna work better for them, not what looks great on a size six catalog model. Mm-hmm. Um, that's, that's a big, a big thing for me. I don't wanna dress a bride in something that's not right for her.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And um, um, when you mentioned before that your husband is your accountant and financial advisor and business partner, Sam's also in business with her husband, as you might have some of our podcast episode. Yes. Yeah. Um, yeah. Is that, does that work well? Have you got a good balance together?

Yeah, we do. And it's, it's great because. If I'm needing to work extra hours, which is happening in this last year, he's really understanding, understanding, you know, why I am doing it and I know I've got his backup and support there. Mm-hmm. Um, I always try and not work on a Sunday, but there's obviously the few that come along that you've just gotta get it done.

Mm-hmm. So it has helped we share an office, um. So, yeah, no, it's worked. 'cause when I've been in business before. I've done all of my financials and that, and it's always been quite lowkey. Mm-hmm. But it's, it's sort of at a very different notch here, so it's been a huge burden off my shoulders that I know he's just busy doing all our tax returns and, right.

Yeah, that's, that's what Sam does for your husband's business, isn't it, Sam? You're doing all that stuff for. Well, I, you know, I don't do the tax returns anymore.

I think too, like the talk, talking about finance, you know, because it's having an accountant in your back pocket. What a bonus. Yeah, absolutely. This is outta all the other hats that you have to wear as a business owner. I'd love to know which ones you found the most challenging to wrap your head around.

Uh, what's, how did you pick up the skills to be able to perform in those other areas of business? Well, I realized when I came to Perth because when I was operating in Zimbabwe, I was. Um, yeah, definitely one of the leading designers. I was on the ZI Fashion Week Council. Mm. Didn't have to market my business, you know, it just was a nice steady flow coming to Perth, it was completely different.

And I did that sales course with Peter Kovich. Yes. Which was a huge outlay for me at the time. But that. Sam, I, I was shocking at sales and as soon as I changed my mindset from sales to service mm-hmm. And I'm here to make the bride's day a better day. That's really what my sales, um. Uh, messages to other business people.

It's like, you just gotta get that word out. Change it. Yes, it was all about sales. It stressed me out and I just, for me, it was about service. How can I be of service to them? That's a really important, that was a huge, a huge thing for me. And then with social media coming in, it had never really been part of my business before.

And so again, lots of, um, training I did, uh, with Brooke Vic. Mm-hmm. Yes. Now working, um, all living in Croatia. Mm-hmm. She was a great help, just learning all the social media. Mm. I still follow quite a few people getting chips because it's forever changing. Yes. So, and you, you're really good at those social media.

Yeah. Hmm. So it's just learning and I, you know, I was getting accused by some of my friends, you know, what course are you on now? It's like, you know, I had to also take a backseat because any webinar that was up, I wanted to be on it. So. I did that at full steam for a few years and then had to actually put the brakes on and accept that I knew what I was doing with those areas.

So, yeah, I can so relate to that. And Sam too, in the, you know, early days of business, you're so knowledge hungry, aren't you? You follow everyone and then you, and you sign up for all the courses and you do all the things, and then at some point you hit burnout with courses and you do, I'm in phase down.

You just got too much information to absorb. Yeah. So you sort of have to out what you really need and focus on those. Yeah. But it is important to keep learning at the same time, isn't it? Yeah. So I find it hard to pull back and not pay attention too much, but then keep learning because as you said, social, it is always evolving and changing.

AI is always a, yeah. Evolving ai, now it's, yeah. It's a whole different ballgame. I love all your podcasts on the ai. Oh, well, we've just done another one a few times. We just did one last week. It's about to go live today or tomorrow, another one. But mine now experimenting with, um, AG agentic AI with the little agents that, um Okay.

Help you in your business. So, yeah. And Sam dives right in after that. So we need to do an update on that. Yeah, because now you, I, I'm wondering how long it's gonna be before brides are bringing in. AI designs to you saying, can you make this for me? Well, I mean, a couple of years ago I signed up with guys where I can take photos of the bride's front, back and side and get a full 3D avatar of all their measurements.

So what's coming is for my website. For brides to be able to wear the dresses virtually. So that's pretty much out there as well. Virtual trials. Mm-hmm. Amazing. And affect our businesses in a huge way. Yes. But like, you know, like we have to do, it's just ride the wave, isn't it? And embrace it and Yeah. Um, I'll offer it to people because Yeah.

As a, as a value add. Yeah. 'cause even now what designers are using is I could upload a sketch and get. It all pattern made for me with ai. Mm-hmm. You know, so it is a bit of a worry what jobs are being lost. Mm-hmm. But, um, yeah, it's, it's just developing so quickly. Yeah. But how great to be able to offer those tools and, and it's not gonna ever put you out of business 'cause they still need to.

Um, yeah, I was talking about this with, um, an architect yesterday. She's in the same position where, um, people can just, um. Put in the details of what they want for their house and get the plans drawn up, you know, but Yeah. But she was saying you can never replace that 20, 30 years of wisdom that you've built up, though, that knows whether something's constructable or like, it's, you're still gonna need the architects and the, the bridal gown designers and the, you know, in Sam's case, she's an automation expert.

And I think your new business is around sys AI systems and automation. Uh, definitely systems automation. Yes. Yeah. And that's her genius and she's so good at it. But, and people would question, but with AI and systems, is that job not redundant now? And it's like, well, you actually need to know, you know, you've gotta have, you've gotta have the knowledge to be able to, to guide people on how to use those systems and automation.

Yeah. And, and like you've said earlier, you know, your brides are saying that you are, you know, it feels like they, you know, you're reading their mics because you're able to interpret what they're saying. Into a vision of, of what they, what they really want. And as good as AI is the same with architecture and all of those things, there are things that you know, through your years and years of experience that you can inject into their vision that they would never think of.

So whatever is coming out of AI is only made with the limitations of what they know and they're not getting the benefit of your experience. Yeah, true. Yeah. AI is like a massive e efficiency accelerator, isn't it? Like, um, but you still need the expertise guiding that efficiency to make it worse. Yeah.

Yeah. So, Jo, what would. Um, you've told us that getting, changing a relationship to sales was a huge thing and just shifting that word into service rather than selling. Yeah. And you've said that you've had to learn to let go and, and outsource and, and be less, um, and meshed in your business and less identified with it.

Mm-hmm. Um, and um, yeah. What are some of the other like big learnings that you would share with people that are on, because you're quite established now. If people just stuck out, what would you share? I think one other thing, Kate, I was a big networker earlier on and I was maybe being a little bit too broad with my networking.

So again mm-hmm. It comes down to how much time you've got to allocate to all the different, um, things you need to do. Mm-hmm. And what I've done over the last few years was. Be quite niche with my networking, so I'm now more in with a wedding industry network. Yeah. And, um, doing coffees and catchups with people that are at the beginning of the bridal journey, like your photographers and venues, um, referral partners.

Yeah. Yeah. Sort of building strong relationships with. With people that you can collaborate with. And, uh, so that, yeah, the networking is great and I learned a lot from business with doing a wide networking, but I think after a few years you've gotta really be more focused. Yes. Because time becomes even more valuable.

It's a really good point. Yeah. So I think that was quite a big, a big thing as well. And just. I was lucky that I had the financial backing to keep persevering. 'cause I think I only started drawing a salary in the third year. Yeah. Um, that's very normal. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, that was fortunate for me. But just for people, if they are sure that they're doing the right thing to keep focused and keep working at it.

Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Keep, keep learning those first few years. It's critical. You know where you, like you said, Sam, you know where you're falling down. You've got to make sure you, you learn how to do it. Mm, yeah. Even when you can pass it on to someone else, you still. Like, even though most of my production is done, I've gotta be the one that can see, you know, the pattern goes on the mannequin and I can see that bus line is wrong.

That's not how I want it. I want it like this. And that's the thousand hours or a hundred. How many hours do this? Yeah. 10,000 is it? Yeah. Yeah. 10,000 hours. Like being there like, but it, it was critical groundwork, you know? So yeah. When people say, oh, I'll just outsource that, it's like, no, you need to know how to do that because you'll get ripped off.

And you'll get burned and, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So developing skills. I know you've always been really good at soaking up marketing, sales, all the, you're really diligent in learning new skills and staying relevant with current, with the time is a really, yeah, and it was tough, you know, that feeling. We, oh, I'm not a natural sales person.

I don't think anyone. Yeah, well, people like Peter Kovich, they, they pretty natural with it, but I think that's like 1% of the population. So, but he, he started his career in gyms and that's all about sales. So I think it just, and, and he's naturally that, that way inclined. So it was just a, yeah. Natural fit for it.

It was tougher for me, but I'm, I'm pretty determined when I decide I'm gonna do something. Yeah. Which is how you've got to where you are, I think. 'cause you're, yeah. You're very committed to the vision. Yeah. Yeah. When it was time for you to have surgery and you got the news that, that, that was gonna have to happen, and that's forced time off.

You know, for, for whatever period, you know, at the time you think, oh, it's gonna be X amount of time. Because yeah, we all go into these things thinking they're gonna go according to plan. Were there any parts of your business that you hit the panic button and thought, oh, I better get that organized really quick 'cause that's not set up to run without me?

Or were you all good to go or. Um, well, the op was meant to happen mid-winter, which is low period for bridals, so I'd organized, I'd given myself six weeks off work, which was a joke, and then we were over in Brisbane, got back, got flu. They wouldn't operate, so it was pushed out for another six weeks. So the pressure was on and what I, what I had to do, 'cause I had a lot of custom brides coming towards the end of the year, I had to ask the brides to bring their mum or bridesmaids with, to get down on the floor to measure hems.

Wow. And luckily because they were custom, I developed a relationship with them. Mm. So I didn't take any new clients during that time, but it was, it was really challenging. Uh, I was greeting clients on crutches. Um, had a, I moved a bar stool into the studio so that I could sit and pin, and so it was. This very unexpected, like, how do I deal with this?

I can't let my brides down. And that's also when I realized that pivoting more towards wholesale, where the team is there. When you need them. Was was, you know, quite, and I'd been thinking about it anyway, but it just solidified that the timing for me was good to sort of lean more into that. And was that an easy transition to, to move into the wholesale space?

Luckily I was already in it. Mm-hmm. So I had a stockist here in Perth. Mm-hmm. Had developed the relationship again. Uh, we knew each other well. Um, the trust was there. She knew that I delivered, you know, high quality products. So that helped. But I just escalated and sort of took it up a notch. Hmm. Yeah, but that was, thanks to that groundwork that you'd been doing.

If you hadn't done that previously, it would've been a lot harder to do that. It would've been a lot harder. Yeah. Because then I would've been still 80% custom and it, yeah, it would've been a big knock. Mm. Wow. So there was some, um, benevolence in the timing, wasn't there? Yeah, yeah. No, definitely putting in the, the sort of sweetened tears in the first few years helped.

Mm, yeah. Yeah. Which is a beautiful success story, you know, that you've managed to get to this place. Yeah. You worked incredibly hard over the last eight years and you. Coming to a place where you are, um, you know, a completely unknown quantity after being in South Africa where you were well known. You, you were on the fashion board, what you said in, in Zimbabwe.

Yeah. One week fashion board. What was that? Zimbabwe Fashion Week? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you were a big fish in a small pond. Pond, small pond. And then you came. It's the opposite, but you've managed to establish yourself, so you, you know, you must be really proud of that. Yeah, and it's, it's, it is quite scary the amount of times where I sort of felt it was too hard.

Like when I look back, year one was hard. Mm. Year two felt too hard, like I wasn't sure I would get through. By year three, I sort of thought, okay, I'm doing this. It's happening. But it was that perseverance to get to that third year. Mm-hmm. And yeah, to just really be strong in why you're doing it. I think for me.

Uh, was, was a biggie. I'd love to include your, um, I'm writing my book at the moment called Beating the Odds, how to The Honest Guide to Building a Business That Lasts. And, um, I'm, I'm, um, sprinkling little case studies throughout it and I'd love to include yours because it's so important. Uh, um, having clear expectations when you go into business, it, it's typically at least three years before you start.

Yeah. Doing a salary sometimes longer and that, you know, valley of death as I call it. Um, yeah. Hard. And like you said, in year two, Sam and I were there as well. We just think, man, this is so hard. I'm actually thinking about getting a job. I just don't wanna deal with stress anymore. Well, in that second year, I reached out 'cause all of my designer buddies.

Over Brisbane's side. Mm. Uh, so I didn't have any here. And I reached out, I'd done some artwork with her mom and I reached out to her daughter who was a designer. And at the time, I'm like, I just wanna create a design like. Um, and I remember saying to her, it's not about the brand. I just wanna design. And looking back, I thought that was quite scary.

You know, she was like, no, I am not looking for anyone. And that was a bit of a blessing for me because I was very vulnerable then to just. It was so hard. I didn't know how to keep going. Mm-hmm. But with her saying no, you know, I've been in the game for nine years. I've worked hard. It's my brand. I don't want another designer on board.

It was a bit of a slap in the face for me, but it, it made me just put on my big girl pants and get on with it, you know? Mm-hmm. And push through like the bamboo story, you know, you alter it for years and years, and. You don't see any growth until, yeah, eventually it starts growing. So yeah, you don't know when and if it's gonna sprout.

You just have to trust that you keep putting the time and effort in. And it will. Yeah. Yeah. So what was the, when the feeling that she gave you was, um, like how did that impact you? What, what made you decide Right, well, that then I'm gonna build my own brand and, and I'm gonna keep going. Yeah, it just, um, I thought, okay, she's been in it for nine years and she said to me, Joe, I've only just started right.

Getting on top of things. And I thought, oh, here I am. After two years thinking it was tough. You know, just keep, keep going. Mm-hmm. And again, those tough times, Kate, I would just sit back and read the reviews from my brides who I'd had an impact on. Hmm. And it's like, no, this is, this is, I'm good at this.

You know? Yeah. I'm good at this. People need this. Yeah. That's really good advice. Hmm. Yeah. And reviews. That's why we should all get them. And I think too, because, you know, we do live in this world where everything is fast, and so we naturally assume that, you know, a couple of posts on social media and off we go.

Mm. Yeah. When it doesn't happen, it can be a very big knock to the, to the ego. Yeah. Yeah. And also, you know, the practicality of life is that we need money to live. And, and you'd kind of wonder how many people give up, you know, given that the failure rate of small businesses is about 50%, half of them give up before they reach that sprouting phase.

And you think, how many of them were close, getting close, but couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel and, and gave up, or, you know, yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, but it's fascinating that, so you must be so proud you've got through, so it's eight years, you're nearly at the nine year mark, like your friend.

Yeah, yeah. It's always quick when you look back, when you're looking forward, it uh, seems like forever. Seems like forever. Yeah. But it sounds like you're in a position now where you think, I've got this, I've got a solid brand, I've got a path forward. I've, I've, I'm freeing up my time. You've hit a nice once by the sound of it.

And I'm having a lot more fun, like I've got a lot more photographers calling on me for photo shoots, and that's obviously the more creative side again, and I can. Look at their mood board and say, oh, well I can do this, this, and that. You know? Mm-hmm. Throw in my bit and, and it's a lot of fun, so. Mm-hmm.

It's sort of is evolving and like I said, my sort of possible honeymoon section to the website will is, it's nice when you can bring in a bit of new energy as well. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And do the whole launch around that and excitement. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to know, Joe, what, what is, what would be the big thing for you that you would love to do?

Like is there something you'd love to be involved with, or is there some big goal outside of your business that you would like to be associated with? Outside the business or with the business? Yeah. Well, well, your, your business to be associated with. What would you like do I had of a vision to be featured in Vogue.

So, um, you know, I think any designer has that dream, uh, but I've realized I've gotta let go of that focus more on. The, the other dreams. And if, if that happens, that's okay. Um, it's not, we just do what Donald Trump does and just AI a picture of your gown on vogue and then done. Done. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But no, but it's another one of those questions, isn't it?

Like, was that my ego wanting that or is it actually me? It is so possible. It's Kate. It's like, why is that even important? Is that sort of, you know, the badge you have to wear. And I'm like, ah, yeah, but it's also not. Out of the scope, the scope of reality, miracles, how cool things happen, opportunities could arise and you know, yeah.

Someone's listening to this. Yeah. You never know. You're extremely good at what you do. So it's, it's possible. And what you, when you were talking, it reminded me of another important point that Sam and I talk about sometimes as well, is that sometimes succeeding in business is just staying in the game and enduring because the longer you're around.

Absolutely. More people drop off. But you are still standing. Yeah. Yeah. When you said Joanne, it's also, it's an exponential thing. I find building a brand, it's exponential. It takes so long, you know, you're sort of flat lining and then all of a sudden there's an inflection point and then it, and then the opportunities to start going up because you know, like you said, now you're becoming known by photographers and they talk about it and, and then the word of mouth spreads and the reputation spreads.

Yeah. It's just getting to that point where you hit the inflection point. So I guess the message to everyone listening is, if you are in that really tough struggle part, just keep going. You know, and just every day keeps going up and, and small, consistent action. Um, yeah. And I think, Kate, keep, keep reassessing why you're doing it and don't be scared of pivoting or making changes.

Mm. Often our initial vision is it needs to morph as the, as the business grows. Mm-hmm. Uh, so don't be scared of that. Be clever about it. Do your research. Uh, but yeah, what do they say? The one true thing in life is? Everything changes. Yeah. The only, the only constant is change. That's it. That's it. Yeah. So I embrace that.

Yeah. And I find it interesting too. I, I, I, I picked up on this one word that you said, Joe, is that when you hit that year three, after having a really difficult year, two, because there's so much inner work that you've done on this journey as well, but the word you used about year three was that you decided, no, I'm going to do it.

Yeah. So you made that decision and then, you know, the commitment came with that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think that's a really important thing to pick up on as well, is that mm-hmm. You know, do doing it. You don't consciously go into it, not fully, but that fear can really hold you back. Mm-hmm. What you're trying to achieve.

So I love that you said you made that decision. No, I'm doing it. And then off you went. Yeah. That's a really important point. Keep focused. Yeah. Yeah, it is. That just 'cause I, I hit that point too, where a couple of years ago where it was no longer optional, it was essential that I make my business work, you know, and, and it was all of a sudden shifted from, oh, uh, like you said, Sam, you sort of, it's not conscious, but you're in that phase where this might work or it might not work.

But there comes a point where you have to go all in and this, this is gonna work whether, you know, yeah. There's no option anymore. I am making this work. Yeah, making it work. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it does shift then, because suddenly, yeah, it is almost like, um, yeah, that, just that one decision. It. It channels a different kind of energy somehow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It allows you to, it allows you to drop some walls that are stopping you from doing a couple of things that you don't, you're not, like I say, you're not fully conscious of until you make that mind shift and then you go, oh, well, yes. Yeah. Yeah. The mind is I think one of our most powerful tools.

Oh yes, absolutely. And again, just being honest with yourself. That authenticity, like, I am not that designer. This is me. This is my groove that I need to work in. Um, yeah, it's, it's just that being honest with yourself, it comes through in your brand. Mm. Well Joe, congratulations to you for eight years down the track, you have made it.

You are engaged. Lovely. Um, for those of you that haven't checked out her website, her pieces are stunning. Her collections are stunning. She's got the ready to wear stuff, which, um, is just beautiful as well. And, and the couture gowns are just. Worldly. Oh, thank you Kate. Yeah. And thank you so much for giving your time to us today.

We can't, you know, thank you enough for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. Great. Love your podcast. Love the variety of people you chat to as well. It's awesome. Oh, thank you. You're making me wanna get married again.

You have another, have another wedding? Yeah. Yeah. Celebration of life. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe you can buy one of Joe's gowns to celebrate your current marriage. Yeah.

Yeah, stunning. You're are very clever and, um, yeah, it's a pleasure talking to you today and thank you so much. Thank you ladies. Appreciate you. And yes, as I said, jrw bridal.com au. Go check her out. And um, your handle on Instagram is, uh, JRW bridle. Yeah, so the J RW is for Joanne Rosswell. The Ross is my maiden name.

Mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and Wells is your, um, husband, your accountant, hubby? Yes. Yes. It's all worked out beautifully in the end. Yes, yes. Alright, well thank you so much everyone. Thank you ladies, and we will be back in another two weeks. Thanks so much. Bye for now. Bye-bye.