Ep #2 | Define Your Business Identity: The Foundation of Revenue Generation

Welcome to Season 2, Episode 2 of the Thriving Business Podcast!

Over the next 18 episodes, we're walking you through all the essential elements of business building in a structured way, based on our Thriving Business Wheel, with the following four quadrants:

Quadrant 1: Earn (Revenue Generation)

Quadrant 2: Keep (Profitability)

Quadrant 3: Grow (Capacity and Scaling)

Quadrant 4: Lead (Lead with Impact)

Today's episode begins in quadrant one (revenue generation) by covering the foundational topic of Business Identity.

"Marketing fails when a business doesn’t know its own soul."

You'll discover why it's essential to clarify your brand values, mission, vision, and “why”, even if you've been in business for a while now. These foundational elements flow into your branding, marketing and sales, which all create your ability to bring in the money.

Tune in as Sam and Kate help you strengthen your business identity, the engine of your revenue generation machine.

00:00 Revenue Generation Kickoff
00:51 Business Identity Matters
02:57 Branding Foundations
04:17 Personal vs Brand Persona
05:36 The Oh Eight Story
07:31 Brand Vision Board Exercises
09:30 Audience First Branding
11:42 Start With Why
16:27 Because Taglines Work
17:59 Premium Branding and Design
22:11 Messaging From Your Why
23:31 Vision Mission Values Framework
25:17 Values as Verbs
26:41 Clarity Before AI Messaging
27:51 One Clear Offer
28:56 Market Research Mindset
31:54 AI and Competitor Gaps
33:02 Ads as Research Tools
35:09 Specificity Wins Clients
37:40 Brand Bar Exercise
41:30 Identity Evolves Over Time
46:40 Final Wrap and Next Episode

Connect with Your Hosts:

Kate De Jong, PhD | Inspired Business 🌐 Website: https://katedejong.com/ 📱 Instagram: @katedejong.inspiredbusiness ✉️ Email: kate@katedejong.com

Sam Morris | The O8 🌐 Website: https://www.theo8.com/ 📱 Instagram: @the_o8crew ✉️ Email: sam@theo8.com

Thriving Business Podcast 🌐Website:   https://www.thrivingbusinesspodcast.com/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Scale your business without the burnout. This is the Thriving Business Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Thriving Business Podcast. Hello, Sam. Hi, Kate. So here we go. This is the first episode of our well, the sec I should say this is the second episode because we kicked off last week with the plan. But this is the first episode of the actual content that we want to share with everyone today. Yes. Yeah. So today is the beginning of quadrant number one, which is all about revenue generation. So it's about earning powerfully, which is where all the everything you need to know about marketing and selling and revenue generation. So very, very important in business as we all know. You don't have a business unless you're bringing the money in. So today the topic is the foundational topic that where every business needs to start, and that's all about business identity. So this is where we do a deep dive into your business values, mission, and vision. And it's why marketing fails when the business doesn't know its own soul.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yes. It's a big topic, but we've got to start here, don't we, Kate? Because the soul of the business is it's the epicenter of everything else that the business does. And if you don't start with this soul of the business identity, then this is where we see businesses flailing out there in the marketplace.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah. They're not clear on who they are, what they stand for, what's the problem they solve, who has this problem. Yeah. And then I know you and I come across regularly businesses that have been in the game for sometimes two, three, four plus years and still not super clear on their business identity. They might just be positioning them themselves in the market, delivering a standard service. But unless you are really clear, this section is all about clarity, isn't it? Clarity of what your business stands for. And it's it's uh a lot of businesses skip over this and then, as you said, struggle to actually convert their marketing.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Yeah. And I think this is where businesses can go from being in the mainstream and being in a competitive landscape with everyone else that is doing the same things as you, saying things the same way and being very generic to becoming a really premium and well-known brand.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Because once you understand who you are and what you're all about and how your products and services really service the audience and how to connect with that audience and all of those pieces that come together inside of your business identity, this is where your brand can really elevate and your business can make a real difference.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah. And you and I had the discussion around, you know, and some people might be asking, well, how does this fit in with branding and marketing? It's all business identity, is the foundation of your branding and your marketing. So you when you go to a branding agency or you work with a branding designer, and they will ask you a whole series of questions to try and understand your business identity so they can then develop the visual representation of that identity in the marketplace that's going to appeal to the customers you're trying to reach and all of that. So when you're working with a branding designer, and we highly recommend that you do, and we'll talk more about that later about the good, the bad, and the ugly of DIY branding and so on. Now with AI and everything. But yeah, when you work with a branding designer, they will try to uncover your business identity because they're trying to understand, okay, who are you? What kind of business are you? What personality is your brand, you know, and and then how do we translate that into a visual representation that will then, you know, because first impressions count. And if someone sees your brand online on your website or on your socials or any brochures, they, you know, first impressions do last. And so it's about making that strong impression. And you can't make that strong impression unless you're really clear about who you are and what you stand for.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Yeah. And Kate, I want to ask you this question because what we see a lot from startups is the belief that the brand is just an extension of them. And I always say that is true when they are a personal brand, but it is not true for all businesses. So what do you think about creating a brand persona that is separate from who the business owner is?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, so I do exactly what you say, Sam. If you have a business that is a team where you're you're the you might be the business owner, but you've got a whole team of people delivering work uh together, then yeah, you need a separate brand persona, I would say, you know, collectively, what are we? You know, who are we? How do we what what values do we embody? What voice, what kind of personality do we have? Are we warm and approachable? Are we professional and dignified? Or, you know, so yes, definitely a brand persona if you're more than one person. And as you said, as a personal brand, um, so I'm, for example, a personal brand, my business is me, then it really is an extension of me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yeah, as opposed to what I do, yes. Brand has its own persona, and I I it the brand is not me.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yes, the 08, which is your new business, yeah, Ocean's 8, which is all about well, tell us about it, Sam, and how your brand persona is.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Oh, look, the brand persona came about from doing a very deep dive into uh where we felt aligned and and how we could communicate. And Oceans 8, you know, it's a movie about some very strong, powerful, and clever women. Who I know that they were doing something illegal, but they were so clever in the execution. And I and we loved the fact that Ocean's 8 is a team, and every person in that team has a specific purpose and a specific role to perform in order to pull off this heist. And that's what we were all about. That's what we wanted to, you know, but we can't use the name Ocean's 8. So we went for the 08.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

And this is you and your business partner, Steph.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yes, yes. And then, of course, lay laid into that. We we focused on the 08 as the movie and what those characters represent.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Which is the Sandra Bullock movie, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yeah, yeah. And it was it was a lot of fun to dive into that because I love the character of Louie Miller, who's played by played by Kate Blanchard, who's Australian. And Steph very much sits in that Sandra Bullock space of Jimmy Ocean and her character. So it was interesting, even you know, the Australian connection. But then, you know, when we were diving into the woo-woo side of things and finding out that, you know, like my my number is eight, and Steph's number is eight, and all that all of the roads were just pointing to this being the right thing for us.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

So you've had to develop your brand persona and fit because you're different, you're the Lou, and she's the what's the um Debbie. Debbie. Yeah. How do you combine those together to be a brand persona? Yeah. Yes. And so when we're branding, is a is a is a fun exercise, isn't it? When you really get into it. Like I remember back in the day, Sam, when we would work with startups and they would and we would help them figure out their brand vision boards. And we would ask them a bunch of questions, like, if you were a drink, what kind of drink would you be? Are you an orange juice? Are you a GNT? Are you a red wine? Are you a martini? You know, what are you a sparkling mineral water? Like, what are you as a as a drink? Then we'd ask them about a car or a cartoon character. And these were all different ways we'd try and help them understand in the spectrum of life, what is your person brand personality?

SPEAKER_02 8:12

I absolutely used to love seeing what they came up with because we used to get them to go and get images, you know, on Canva, or, you know, if you wanted to do it old school and get magazines, if you had it, do it that way. But on Canva, it fascinated me when people would share their Canva design with me, and they had an image of their drink and an image of their car, and and all of those images on this Canva design, it just tells the story so beautifully. It's not just a story about the personality, but it even the colours and the fonts and and all of those selections combined. Yes. Came together to form a brand and they weren't conscious that's what was happening when they were creating it.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yes, yeah. And that was part of the process, isn't it? It's making helping you become intentional and conscious about what is the vibe you're putting out there into the market. What kind of business are you? And yeah, so branding, as we said, is that it's your business name, it's your it's your brand colours, it's your fonts, it's how you present yourself in the market. Are you a are you a high-end luxury brand or are you more a you know, rough and guts everyday sort of you want to be approachable to the to the the average person? I don't know. And yeah, you've got to really figure out where the key here is understanding who you're trying to reach, right? And yeah, so you're you're the audience that you're trying to attract. And and we used to have the discussion a lot that whatever it's not about as much as you know, even personal brands, the branding isn't your business identity is an extension of you, um, your business is actually not about you, though. You're in you're in the market to solve a problem for people. So you need to meet them where you're at. And so just because you love, I know we used to use the example all the time of a whale, just because you love whales doesn't mean you should have a whale tail in your logo if you're a business that does bookkeeping and accounting, for example, because that may not resonate with you know with the audience that you're trying to appeal to. So yeah, it's not about our personal preferences as much as reaching and resonating with the people that we want to reach. What do you say on that, Sam?

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah. Oh, Kate, look, there's there's nothing wrong with whales.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

We love whales, but this is where unless you're a whale watching company, then that's totally appropriate, yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Yeah, but when when people sit down with someone like you and I, or a branding expert, or whoever it is that they're sitting down that really knows what to look for or knows what questions to ask, you know, you've got to it's not just about the visual representation of a whale. It's you know, a whale can still be incorporated into a brand, but you have to sit there and say, well, what is it that appeals so much about the whale? Because maybe it's not the whale tail, but maybe it's you know, maybe it's that whales migrate and so they travel, or maybe it's because if there's some symbolic reason for why that's there, that that's relevant to the business, yeah. Yeah, so we don't have to eliminate those things because we like them, but there is a reason why we're attracted to them. And you have to understand that beyond just like, oh well, I like whales, so I'm gonna put a whale as my logo. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah, yeah. So that's a whole um a whole discussion, isn't it, that we can get into on branding. And um, before we get into that, we probably need to back up and start with why, which is one of our favorite topics, Sam. We've you and I have both um had a what's the word? We've both been drawn to Simon Sinnex teaching.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

We have it, we have an intellectual love affair with Simon Sinney.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

That's right. He's a very attractive mind.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

So he his famous TED talk, which went viral in 2009, like it's a long, it's six, 17 years ago now, you know. So been around for a long time, but he has cracked the code of good marketing um with his his Start with Why concept and his golden circle. So for those of you that haven't watched it, and those of you that have worked with Sam and I have definitely seen it and know it, and because we always talk about it, but highly recommend you watch it if you haven't. It's 18 minutes long, his TED talk, but it literally describes how brands like Apple have managed to cut through and rise above and become household names globally, as opposed to some of the other brands that have come and gone and boomed and busted. Because they have from the start, Apple has always been very clear about who they are, how they're different, and what their mission, you know, and why they do what they do. And they do what they do because they are constantly challenging the status quo. That's you know, they believe in challenging the status quo because that's how you get true innovation and creativity and and progress. So everyone who believes what they believe resonates with that that um you know that purpose. And that's why Apple has so many loyal fans, because they want to be different, they want to come be innovative and all of that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yes, and this is where this is what we love about Simon, because it can, you know, we've worked with many clients, Kate, who have really struggled to try and work out what their why is, and that's a whole process you know in and itself.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

But I think the main thing is that when you understand why you can then start to communicate a feeling and that is the basis for your marketing. Yes. And I don't want people to ever brush this stuff off, and they do, they do, right? They don't want to they don't want to worry about their why, they want to they don't want to worry about what their next Instagram post is gonna be. You've got to understand your why and you build from there. Yes, it is the foundation. Yeah, yeah. What you're selling is last on the list here, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

And and um Cinec is famous for saying nobody cares what you do until they understand why you do it. Yes. And we know that with kids, you know, when they're like, Mummy, why is the sun round? Or mommy, why is the ocean blue? And and they don't even care what the answer is, as long as you give them a reason that sounds plausible, they're satisfied, you know. And there's that really powerful um study that was done, the photocopier study. Do you remember that one where they were studying the word because? Um, so they'd they'd get a bunch of people to go into very busy uh photocopy stores, and this was done like 30 maybe more years ago. And it's you can Google it, the photocopy study or the Xero study, is it Xerox? Is that what they call it in the US?

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Xerox, yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

So there would be a queue of people waiting to use the photocopy machine, and they'd give people the instruction to go in and say, excuse me, can I jump the queue? And and then either with or without the word because, the first round of people would say, Excuse me, can I jump in? I've got to go to the doctor, and people would say, We'll get to the back of the line, we're all busy too, you know. But if someone would go up and say, excuse me, can I jump in the queue because my son is waiting in the car? As soon as you inserted the word because, the compliance went through the roof. And this was the fascinating thing about that study was it didn't matter what reason you gave after the word because, as long as you had a reason, people were like, Yeah, sure, go in front. It was the most fascinating thing. And that's what Simon Sinek has tapped into with why. It's like if in business you're doing something because you believe XYZ, suddenly people are like, Oh, yeah, because we believe, yeah, okay. And then he says always, your job is to do business with those who believe what you believe. So the people who don't believe what you believe, they'll just get naturally filtered out, and they're not people that you're meant to work with.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I think one of the simplest and best examples of how to use your why in your marketing, and I will just say these words because I'm sure everybody will the ladies definitely who listen should know this brand, and that's because you're worth it.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Exactly, because you're worth it, yeah. Is that Dove?

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Isn't it L'Oreal?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Oh, L'Oreal, one of those. Is it? I don't, yeah, it's one of those. But it it's a very powerful tagline. Any tagline that has the word because in it, it's powerful. So I always think of Emma Loggavin, she's a personal stylist, and her tagline is because life is so much better when you love the clothes you're in. And people go, Yeah, it's it is. Or those that don't care about style, yeah, don't care. But those that care, you know, about loving the clothes they're in, they resonate. And yeah, any tagline with because is is a strong one because you're worth it.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah. Yeah. And that that's leaning right into what people believe. Exactly. Do you believe you're worth it? Because if you do, we've got something to talk about here. And that's when the marketing and sales conversation can start happening.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

And that's how L'Oreal um elevated themselves. They're just a standard regular producer of you know, moisturizers and so on. But somehow they elevated themselves above through just clever marketing and branding. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Yes. And we should make the distinction here too, because there are expensive brands and there are premium brands. Premium brands are doing things like understanding their why, having the vision and mission that aligns perfectly with their why, and they're driving communities through how they feel and what they believe, rather than marketing an expensive product. Because you know, premium brands are expensive, but there are expensive brands that don't justify the price. And there's a very big difference in those two businesses.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

And branding is one of those things where you don't realize it's good. Um how do I explain this? Um, you know when it's bad. You know, we've seen so many examples of people that do their own branding if they use AI generation or you know, it's getting it's getting a lot better, but back in the days of people would use clip art or you know, DIY, do-it-yourself logos and branding. And you just think, oh, you are not doing yourself any um service here. You know, you're really and and branding, uh, yeah, I think what I was trying to say is branding designers go to university and study graphic design for years. You know, it's it's a real specialist skill. It's about making something look good effortlessly. So it's in in branding, they always say less is more, right? Look at the Nike symbol, the tick. Yes. So simple. And Adidas, like, you know, you think of the really well-known brands, it's a very simple logo. But to get that right and to get it looking strong and powerful is a real skill, and that's what good branding designers know how to do. And you and I, in our time, have seen so many logos that are complicated and fancy, and they've tried to put put too much stuff in, and then you can't reduce it down, and and it's just a nightmare. But I think understanding the basics of good branding goes a long way.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

I've um I've been watching some really, really brilliant people on TikTok who are professional logo designers, and people send the logos in that they've created, or you know, maybe they've paid for. Fascinating. Ask these logo designers what do you think of the logo? What would you know? And it is amazing to me. This is where we undervalue the people that do this work because it's amazing how small tricks and adjustments can make a massive difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yes, yes, that's right. It's about having then the right space. Like that, I never knew what the term kerning was, which is the spacing of letters, right? And getting that exactly right. Exactly. What you said, it's like you either look at it and feel congested, or you look at it and go, Oh, that's facious and perfect. Yeah. The smallest tweaks can make the biggest difference. Yeah. That's right. And I think over the years, you and I have sort of figured out the basics enough to be able to do our own branding, and we think it's okay. But I'm sure branding designers would look at it and go, maybe not.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

But look, not everybody's got the budget for an expert branding designer. But you do you do need to put some thought and care into it, even if you have to D on white because you're starting out, yeah. There there is so much that you can take on board, but please keep it as simple as possible if you're starting out. Yeah, because that you know, this is the other thing, Kate. We have seen some very overcooked logos in our colours, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

And and AI is very good these days in terms of you know knowing which colours go together and how to develop. Develop a brand, a colour palette, and all of that. But nothing is as good as a proper branding designer that knows what they're doing, who knows what your business identity is and all of that good in good stuff. And so we've talked about starting with why, and it's really important to know why you do what we do. And that's because it all your messaging then flows from that. So we've talked about branding, which is the visual, you know, the sort of the visual characteristics of your brand. But then we've got the written verbal, you know, sorry, not the written word, um, which is your what we call your messaging, and that all flows from your why statement. And so just for listeners as an example, why I do what I do is because I believe small business owners and entrepreneurs change the world for the better. And I actually believe that, you know, and um and and I help people like me who have left the corporate world who want to do things on their own terms, and because I believe entrepreneurship is a powerful vehicle to make a difference doing what you love. And so I tend to gravitate those people that believe what I believe gravitate towards me because a lot of people say I read your story on your website and I wanted to work with you. Because yeah, so being very clear about that identity helps magnetize the right people to your brand and push away those that are not the right person to work with you. Because I think we all know what it's like to work with someone who's a mismatch to our values or belief system. It's just a bit it's a lot harder.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

It is very difficult, yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah, yeah. And so if we talk through starting with why is is the is the is the belief statement. And as Simon Sinek always says, your why is where you've been. It's your backstory, it's all the experiences and everything that's brought you to this point where you are now doing what you're doing. The vision for your brand is where you're going.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

And the mission is how you're going to get there. And the values are the moral compasses that are going to guide you along the way. So I really like that distinction. The why is the backstory and why you're doing what you're doing. The vision is where you're going, the mission is how you're going to get there, and then the values guide you morally.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yes. And I've also, uh this is something that I love about Simon. He has been very clear in explaining that values should always be verbs. Because values are something that you do. They're not a proclamation of this is who we are, it's a proclamation of this is how we do things. So we have to make sure that your values are verbs.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Right. That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yeah. That's an interesting point because I've always thought, you know, my values are freedom, but that's a noun.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Yeah. So I think, you know, people have struggled to identify what their values are when they are given a list of nouns. Versus understanding, well, how are you behaving? What is your day-to-day? What are you striving for to be able to deliver your product or service and make your customers very, very happy and make your employees happy? What verbs can epitomize the way you do business?

SPEAKER_01 25:16

That's really interesting. I haven't heard that um anger before. Oh, really? Well, yeah, I'm gonna have to revise my values then, I think. Yeah, because you're, you know, I just and values don't necessarily need to be one word, right? But for example, if I say that my my values are integrity, honesty, professionalism, integrity as a verb would be walk your talk.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Yes, and this is where you want to try and have some value statement. Values, yes. So you may value integrity, but how does that show up in your business?

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah, so that would be walking the talk, doing what you say you'll do, honoring your word. So that really is your value. And honesty would be telling the truth even when it's uncomfortable. Yes, speaking plainly, professionally would be showing up fully, raising the standard, delivering with excellence. Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah, and can you see how you can use those values in your marketing? Because you know, having a value that is a single-word noun, it can be interpreted in so many different ways. Whereas when you're using a value statement and values is a verb, it can be used to attract people who align with the way you do things. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah. Yeah, which is a great way, as we said, of filtering out those who who are not the right fit to work with you. Yeah. Yeah. So all of this, um, your why, your vision, your mission statements, it's you know, when we used to do our workshops with founders, this could take weeks and sometimes months, and and then it evolves, it evolves over time as you're as the clarity comes through, because this is all about clarity. And then to get your messaging right, you've got to have a really clear understanding of where you're going and how you're going to get there and what values you're going to embody along the way. And that's where my specialty is often in helping clients message, you know, do their core brand messaging. AI can help so much these days, but unless you really drive it to go deep, it can stay quite superficial.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Yes. Um, and good, good unless you understand who you are in the first place, or you have a deep understanding of the business, yeah. You're never going to be able to get AI, like you say, to get to the depth because you're not going to know what to put in the prompts or know what conversation to have in order to achieve the right outcome.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah, which means you'll end up with generic messaging, which is just vanilla and blah, you know. And so, yeah. And so business other things that are part of your business identity, it's aside from knowing, you know, as we said, your why vision, mission values, it's getting very clear on the problem you solve, the specific problem you solve, and then who has that problem? That's your, you know, the people you're trying to reach, your target audience. And then what's the solution that you provide? And how do you make money delivering that solution? That's all the clarity that you need as a business owner to actually um, you know, the next step in this process that we're going to be sharing in the next episode is all about crafting your irresistible offer, which is going to be fun. Yes. And every and you and I, Sam, always say to people, how do you get started in business? Go to market with one clear offer.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

And you can't actually have a clear offer unless you know what your business identity is, what the problem is you solve, who has that problem, and how do you solve it? So yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Oh, I can't wait to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

There is another part of brand identity, and there is another activity that falls under this umbrella, and that's market research, okay. Now we both know that particularly for people who are just starting a new business, market research. I've seen many clients who have absolutely crumbled when they've started to do market research because they've felt immense pressure from being in a in overcrowded industries and overcrowded spaces. So tell me your thoughts on market research and and how do we flip the script and use it as a way to sort of bolster us up rather than bring us down?

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah, it's a great question. And market research is absolutely essential. You've got to know the lay of the land that you're, you know, you've got to know the market you're trying to break into. And um perhaps the most empowering thing about it is really getting clear on how you are different to your competitors and what your point of difference is, difference is. And I agree that a lot of people, because we have quite a clear process for helping people work through market research. And it's just identifying who are the top competitors in who do closest to what you do in your environment. And yeah, we used to have a template, right, where they'd list their competitors, they'd go look at their website, look at their messaging, look at their services, their social media channels. And like you say, it could be very, it was very disheartening for some people because they look at how far these businesses are along already and how they seem to be already established and doing so well. And that can feel deflating because you're at chapter one and they're at chapter 20 or 50 or 100, and it can take the wind out of your sails. So that's where I find that people get demotivated. But on the other hand, it can be really empowering because you start seeing, wow, that person's doing that really well, but I would do it differently. And I would do it differently because of this reason. And and and oh, they've got that background and that specialty, I've got this background and this specialty, and it really helps you further niche into you know, get a really specific market position and get more and more clear on the specific problem you solve and how you solve it. And so that's where I find it gets really exciting when you realize there is a space in the market for me to do what I do differently.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Yes. Yeah, I think the first thing, rather than react to market research, in that, you know, like you say, someone who's got years behind them to build up their brand and build up their business, that's first of all the number one indicator that there is potential in the market form for me to grow my business to that size. Yes. So that's number one, we've got to focus on the positive here. If other people are doing it, that means there is definitely a market for it.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

But the next thing we've got to do is, and this is where I do use AI for this, is that I take my market research and I get my AI tool with it, you know, with the prompts that I use to identify what their weaknesses are. And my business is filling gaps that theirs doesn't, because this isn't always necessarily apparent to you as a business owner, because we tend to have blinkers on our own business, particularly when we're looking at people who are doing it bigger and better because they're five, 10 years down the track.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah. Oh it's it's quite amazing that how much this landscape has changed since we were teaching competitor research four, five years ago, you know, and um now it has totally transformed. You can actually just tell AI, these are my competitors, or you can ask it who are my main competitors and that do close most close, the closest thing to what I do, and it will come up with a list, and it yeah, it will tell you what their pluses and minuses are and weaknesses and strengths. And yeah, so it's it's come such a long way. And with tools like AI now, you can get that clarity quite quickly.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah, and the algorithms are going to show you who your competitors are too. So it all of the discussions that I have around what I do, I jump onto my social media to Doom Scroll, you know, when you have that time of day where you've got to space out for a while.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

And a Doom Scroll, pay attention to the ads that you're being shown. Yeah, because that's your competitors. You've been picked up as somebody that fits them. So they are your competitors. And I make a note of whose ads I'm seeing. I went to AI and I said, tell me about this business. Tell me about this business.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Because you know, our phones have ears. And everything we're Googling and everything we're talking about in AI is feeding an ecosystem. So rather than being frustrated by these ads, I'm using it because I'm like, oh, okay. So the things that I'm looking for, the algorithm is giving back to me as these are the pre people that'll solve the problem I keep talking about.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah, that's right.

unknown 34:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah, no, you're that's right, actually. Especially something like Facebook. If you look at the feed, it's all your competitors there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah. And it is great. Show me the ads because number one, this is awesome. There's definitely a market for what I'm doing because people are running paid ads. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah. Yeah. And other people might not be aware of the meta ad library where you can go in and see what ads your competitors are running. I love that tool. And um, it only shows active ads, but that's great because you can see uh it doesn't give you any data, of course, but you can see what are they promoting, what are they selling, how are they selling it, and yeah, that's all real good market research.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Particularly if an ad's been running for quite some time, yeah. Because they're feeding money into ads that aren't converting into sales and there isn't a good ROI on it. So the longer an ad has been running, the more you want to pay attention to it.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

That's right. Yeah, that's a really good point, actually. Yeah, so I guess business identity is all about clarity. And it's um it's the gift you give yourself and your clients because people can, you know, it that clarity is everything in business, isn't it? It's if someone lands on your website and they see, oh, I know exactly what they do and the problem they solve, and yep, I have that problem. So this is the person I need. Whereas um we've all been to those networking events where every, you know, you go around and do introductions and someone stands up and waffles for three minutes and you still don't know what they do at the end of their elevator pitch. And so the more specific, the more clear you can get, the easier it will be to attract clients and to win clients and do business because yeah, it's that old, you know, the saying, if you market to everyone in if you market to everyone, you market to no one.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Whereas the and it's counterintuitive because every business owner we know comes to us and says, Oh, but I want to keep my options open and wide so that I can help more people. But it it actually works in reverse. It's the more specific you are, the more defined, the easier it is for people to say, I've got that's me, I've got that problem, and and I need your help.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah, I Kate, it's my mind's firing at the moment because you said, you know, it is counterintuitive. There are so many parts of business where our intuition, you know, what we believe we need to do is A, then B. There are so many parts of your business where you have to do B and then A. Yeah. It's counterintuitive. And I think this is where so many people are getting stuck because they're doing it, they they're always traveling forward in a direction they think they need to go in. But there's so many things that actually need to be flipped over.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah. Yeah. And identity is one of them. So most brands we know launch straight into a visual branding. They go jump on, they've got a business idea, they jump onto AI, do a logo, and then they'll say, you know, oh, AI, can you help me do some website content? And whereas it's actually reverse. You've got to start with your business identity, then that develops your messaging. Your messaging then develops your develops your visual brand. And yeah, but unless you're clear on that identity first, it's really hard to do the messaging and the visual brand. If you're trying to yeah, that's just that's just one example of where it's flipped backwards. Do you have others that you can think of?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Oh, look, I'm just thinking about you know, the old three men walk into a bar. If your business walked into a bar, how would they behave in that bar? And what is everybody else going to say about your business once you head home for the night? That's what we need to work out.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Yeah. And that that was a really that's a good point. Remember, we used to ask the question, what is a brand? Is that the question? And then the answer was it's everything people say, it's everything other people say you are when you're not in the room.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Yes, correct.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yeah. And so you that's right. What are people saying when you walk out of the room about your business and your brand?

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Yeah. Yeah. And but like I say, we we can't forget the part about understanding how what are you like when you walk into the bar? Yeah. Are you the person that's going to sit in the corner and just sit there and watch everyone? Are you the, you know, are you the life of the party, dancing on tables? How are you interacting inside of that bar?

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yeah. Who are you consciously being? What values are you embodying? What personality are you wanting to portray? And then, yeah, the test is in the client experience. When you walk away, or if they leave you feedback, is that how you're actually showing up and and being and being experienced?

SPEAKER_02 39:01

And anyone that wants to do this exercise, I would say just sit there and close your eyes. And it's not just about, oh, what am I going to be like I could walk into the bar? What bar are you walking into? Yeah. Are you walking into 1800's Western Bar? Are you walking into a really chic hotel bar? Are you a local country pump? Country pump. What bar are you walking into? How are you behaving when you're in there? And what is everyone saying about you after you're gone? What do you want them to be saying after you've gone?

SPEAKER_01 39:31

And that's a really interesting exercise we often would do in workshops where we would get other people to write down how they perceive that person, that that person's business. And it was quite often quite revealing when and teary. Sometimes people would tear up because they hadn't realized how they're being perceived in a good way. You know, whether it was um authoritative or co or kind or professional or elegant or um yeah, there was it we often are not aware of how we're being perceived and often not aware of the positive traits that we have that we're invisible impact. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess um in wrapping up today, yeah, this is the foundation for everything else that people do tend to gloss over. And do you have a business identity framework statement? You know, I had to look mine up there because I I forget what it is sometimes. I know what it is in my bones, but you know, we do need to remind ourselves sometimes, you know, why do you do what you do? And what is the that that's your purpose? That's and people pick up on that. And yeah, it's all about appealing to the right people. And this is all, I think, the thing with branding and messaging and and all the Simon Cynic philosophy, it's a subconscious thing that we're not necessarily aware of at the conscious level, but people are picking up on it. And if you've got that clarity of purpose and mission and vision, people pick up on that. And if they resonate with it, they'll be magnetized and drawn to you and want to be part of it. Yeah. If they resonate with your message, um, yeah, and the opposite is also true. If you're not clear, if you're confused or don't really know where you stand in the market, then other people will be confused about who you are and where you stand. And that's where marketing gets really difficult.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

And I have to say, from personal experience, it can take years to get clarity, and it evolves.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

So it definitely evolves. It and I think people too get really stuck on or once once I pick that logo, once I pick that brand identity, once I pick that brand voice, you don't pick it. Let me just say that. But people think they've got to pick, and then they think, oh, that's what I've got to stay with. But do you know what? We're human beings and we grow and evolve. So me at 20 isn't the same me now. I'm 21. At 20 plus, 21 plus, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I've grown and evolved, and brands brands have breathing room to do that too. So people need to be kind to themselves when they're trying to, you know, identify what their brand is all about. Yeah. It is going to grow, and the more you learn, the longer you're in business, the the more you're going to feed that brand identity, and the more it's going to become the thing that you sort of had fuzzily pictured in your head years ago.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

And it doesn't just apply to sort of service-based brands. It's anybody, even plumbers and tradies, and you know, they can have a point of difference and a why, and they can have some specific thing that they really care about that that draws, you know, the right people to them. And so this isn't just a you know a luxury sort of thing that businesses get to, it's it's really underpins any brand out there in the market, whether you're delivering a run-of-the-mill service or something quite unique, it applies to every business. And and the the ones that have a trying to think of some examples, but yeah, like if you if if you just think of cars and you know, Alexis, everyone sort of knows that's a luxury brand, right? Whereas um Nissan is more a run-of-the-mill family type car.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

But they've they the thing is with all those brands, they own that space and they they fully embody that. And that's why they, you know, that's their market position, and that's how they they make their money, is fully owning that space. So I guess the question to everyone is what's the space you're owning in the market? And yeah, and and it can take years. For those of you that are feeling stuck, we do go through evolutions, and I was stuck probably 18 months ago. I was floundering for about a year trying to figure out who I was, you know, because I was resisting sort of all the experience I'd had in health. Helping new businesses. I didn't want to be a business coach for new businesses because everyone knows it's hard. They, you know, they're they're bootstrapping. They always don't always have a lot of money to, they're not in profit phase yet. So it's but they're the ones I truly care about, helping. And so at the end of the day, you've got to do what feels authentic and what you're passionate about. And you will always the right people will find you and pull out their wallets if they believe what you believe and they they can see they believe in the vision that you're that you're embodying.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

That's true. Kate, I I would encourage all our listeners to just stop and have a little think next time you are hiring a tradie or you're going shopping, going to have a look for a new car. Because when you are making the decision about who to hire or where to shop or which product you're choosing, think about the reasons behind why. Yeah. When you're choosing your tradie, it's not the trade with the prettiest logo. There are more subtle and nuanced reasons why you select that trade over that trade. There are those reasons why you're going to choose a Mercedes or a Lexus or a BMW. And let's premium brands that have brand fans, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

So loyal brand fans, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

That's right. So there are reasons that the brand is communicating a certain thing that people connect with. So next time you're out there doing anything, think about the reasons why you might be connecting with a particular brand, shopping in a particular place, because that's going to start to give you an understanding of what you need to communicate and how you need to communicate it in your own business.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Correct. Yeah, very true. Yeah. And once again, it's all subtle subconscious stuff that we're not always aware of. But if you do start thinking about it, it's like, oh yeah, I picked them. Yeah, because sometimes the ugly, ugliest branding doesn't matter if they're if they're really embodying the values of of trust or whatever it is that you're resonating with. Yeah, and I guess that's it's an important point that branding is not everything. And I've seen plenty of businesses that are thriving without, you know, them, without ever investing much time or effort into their branding. But um it's because they've really found a position in the market, embodied the values they want, delivering a service that, you know, they're just very clear on what they do, the problem they solve, and the people that have that problem love them. And then the the social credit social proof builds up and it all rolls from there. So that's um that's yeah, we need to wrap up. Any closing thoughts, Sam?

SPEAKER_02 46:43

The last thing that I want to share is that there are two ends of the scale here, and what we are pushing people to is to embody appealing to the internal aspects of how they communicate with people rather than worrying so much about the external aspect.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Yeah. Yeah, and that's a very intuitive thing, isn't it? It's um it's something that's not we either, and and that's what I'd I'd encourage everyone to watch Simon Sinek's thing. He took explains the different layers of the brain. You know, you've got the limbic brain in the middle, which is the why, and that's the non-language part of the brain. It's just a feeling. It's it's a real, it's you know, it's it's what he calls the gut response. So you just know or you don't, or you you, or you know it's a no, you know, you know it's a yes or a no, just based on this sort of primal feeling. And so that's why, yeah, really understanding that is so important. Um, when you come into business identity, people pick up on those non-verbal, non-visual cues. And that's why you've got to be really clear about who you are and what you stand for, so that you're putting out the right vibe. There's we don't really have language of around it because it's non yeah, but um it's that very primitive part of the brain that just responds on instinct, and and that's what branding is all about. We respond on instinct and we quite often don't even know why. Yes, yeah, fascinating stuff. It is yeah. Well, we hope that was helpful, everyone. So now that we're you know we're clear on business identity, now it's about turning that into an irresistible offer. So that's what we will be discussing next time. Yes. So yeah, we look forward to unpacking that exciting topic with you then. And until then, bye for now. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

You've got the strategies. Now let's build the systems. Whether you're joining our workshops or transforming at our barley business retreat, we're here to help you scale without the burnout. Visit Thriving Business Podcast.com to join our community. Until next time, keep building a business that thrives.