0:14

well hello friends and welcome to ask


0:16

Zack you've probably heard that


0:18

Nashville is a Telecaster town or if


0:21

you're going to move to Nashville you


0:22

got to have a Telecaster and things of


0:24

that elk well that was not always the


0:28

case and the Telecaster was not an


0:30

immediate hit in Nashville in fact it


0:33

took close to almost two decades for the


0:36

Telecaster to really take off as a kind


0:40

of Nashville musthave instrument for a


0:43

session player to have and so today


0:45

we're going to tell the story of the


0:47

guys that really brought the Telecaster


0:50

to Nashville and made it a musthave so


0:54

we're going to talk about early on a guy


0:57

named Jabo Arrington and and his


1:00

broadcaster number


1:02

o48 we're going to talk about Billy


1:05

Sanford and we're going to talk about


1:08

Fred Carter Jr and we're also going to


1:10

talk a little bit about the uh you know


1:12

kind of Louisiana hayride guitarist the


1:16

guitar players of of sheveport of the


1:17

late 1950s which of course include Fred


1:21

and Billy plus James Burton and uh Roy


1:24

Buchanan and how all those guys knew


1:26

each other and they were all rubbing off


1:28

on each other and they kind of form


1:30

formulated this style that really kind


1:33

of defined to me it kind of defines


1:36

Telecaster playing to a degree that mix


1:39

of country and dead thumb Blues


1:43

lightning Hopkins and uh you know and


1:46

Scotty Moore and all these things


1:48

together that to me kind of make the


1:50

style and and the argument could be made


1:53

that shreport Louisiana is where the uh


1:56

Telecaster style kind of came together


1:58

including the use of light gauge string


2:00

you know banjo strings so I'm going to


2:02

tell that story today first off just


2:05

need to thank my uh patreon members for


2:07

supporting me uh they keep this show


2:10

going and I so appreciate it if you'd


2:12

like to join them or find out more then


2:15

you can look in the


2:17

description all right so as I said


2:20

before Nashville was not really friendly


2:23

to the Telecaster all the guys that were


2:25

coming up in the


2:26

1950s were archtop guys they all played


2:31

you know electric Hollow Bodies made by


2:34

epone or or Gibson or Gretch and they


2:37

were not and and you have to remember


2:40

that the fender broadcaster Telecaster


2:44

nocaster Esquire all you know those


2:46

those solid body guitars were really out


2:50

of the norm and you have to think about


2:52

those things kind of like the way we saw


2:54

a Steinberger or something in the mid1


2:56

1980s or a Parker fly or other things


2:59

that were just kind of


3:00

like what the hell is that and and


3:04

that's kind of the way you have to


3:06

realize that that was kind of the


3:08

attitude toward the Fender guitar


3:11

especially by younger well by actually


3:14

older players you know established


3:16

players that had already their Heroes


3:18

all played their Heroes were like


3:21

Charlie Christian and and guys that were


3:23

playing with the you know Bob Wills and


3:25

the Texas Playboys and stuff like that


3:27

all all their guys played hollow body


3:30

guitars with pickups and so all of a


3:33

sudden you've got this weird you know


3:36

canoe paddle uh or a or toilet seat with


3:40

a neck on it you know there were all


3:41

sorts of names in which they they called


3:43

the uh broadcaster Telecaster thing so


3:47

one of the first


3:48

guys uh to to really kind of start to


3:52

make an impact but unfortunately he uh


3:55

he has an an he he dies unfortunately


3:57

very young he's a guy named Jabo


4:00

Arrington so jebo was according to to


4:03

Bob Moore the great A Team uh base


4:06

player he was a mentor to Grady Martin


4:11

which that's really significant so Jabo


4:14

came up in the 40s and was playing you


4:17

know Western swing and other stuff and


4:19

kind of in that swing style and he


4:22

purchased a broadcaster he had


4:24

broadcaster number


4:27

0048 and he played that guitar on


4:30

sessions and on the Opry and out on the


4:32

road with Little Jimmy


4:34

Dickens and he was kind of famous for


4:37

playing these twin guitar things and a


4:40

lot of them were recorded with either


4:42

Hank Garland or with Grady Martin and so


4:46

just to kind of give you an idea of what


4:49

this sounds like of course I don't have


4:50

two guitars with me so I'm going to kind


4:51

of double stop this to kind of let you


4:54

hear it and so this is kind of an


4:56

approximation of a Little Jimmy Dickens


4:58

tune called sor I'm out of business so


5:02

it starts off with this uh look kind of


5:04

like


5:11

this so that was the kind of thing of


5:14

course it's two guitars playing that but


5:16

uh yeah and and that was kind of a


5:19

popular stylistic thing of that era of


5:22

the late 40s early 1950s where you heard


5:25

a lot of twin guitar stuff that came out


5:27

of the whole Western swing thing and


5:30

also you know the pop music of the day


5:32

big band stuff where you had horn stuff


5:34

so a lot of those lines kind of sound


5:36

like horn


5:37

lines well unfortunately Jabo died in


5:42

1952 and so his impact kind of uh lived


5:47

on to a degree through Grady Martin but


5:49

Grady didn't end up picking end picking


5:52

up a Telecaster instead he played a


5:55

Bigsby so it's kind of the the daddy of


5:58

the uh broadcaster so he played a a


6:01

Bigsby for a bit in fact he had a single


6:03

neck and then he had a double neck that


6:05

had an octave neck on it and he played


6:07

that quite a bit throughout the uh the


6:09

50s but he did not go to the


6:13

Telecaster so the Fender guitar kind of


6:16

languished a bit as far as the session


6:19

players were concerned in Nashville now


6:21

Road guys used them so like Leon roads


6:23

and other cats that were playing with


6:25

Ray Price and others they you know they


6:28

gravitated toward solid bodies and they


6:30

played telecasters and strats and and


6:34

you know even of course by the mid-50s


6:36

they're playing gold top Les Pauls and


6:38

different things like that of that ilk


6:40

but the session guys were not quick to


6:42

gravitate toward the solid body probably


6:45

the first Fender solid body that the old


6:47

school aam guys gravitated toward was


6:51

the Fender Jazzmaster in the late


6:53

1950s so they kind of liked that because


6:56

it had a twangier sound but it was a


6:58

little warmer and had a vbr bar and uh


7:02

and they you know of course it had a


7:04

deep Rhythm sound and so that you know


7:07

you'll see pictures of Harold Bradley


7:08

and other cats you know playing playing


7:10

jazz Masters and they they kind of liked


7:12

that um quite a bit better than the


7:15

Telly so the Telly kind of dies a quick


7:19

death you know unfortunately in the


7:21

early 50s and doesn't really get picked


7:23

up so how does it make it to Nashville


7:26

well there was this whole


7:30

other school of kind of finishing and


7:34

guitar playing that came out of shreport


7:37

Louisiana so shareport is a Northern


7:41

Louisiana Town it had a lot of oil field


7:46

you know work and of course oil field


7:48

workers and those guys likeed to drink


7:51

and party so there was a lot of clubs in


7:56

kind of the shrip sheveport Boer City


7:59

kind of area


8:00

are also you had the Louisiana hay ride


8:04

and as far as Regional radio shows uh


8:08

the biggest one was the Grand o opery


8:10

but the one right below that was the


8:12

Louisiana hay ride and the Louisiana hay


8:14

ride most of the stars that made it onto


8:16

the Opry went through the Louisiana hay


8:18

Rod because it was kind of a natural


8:20

stepping stone that you'd move up some


8:23

from some of the other smaller shows


8:24

like maybe in Chicago or what have you


8:28

and then you would come up or or Dallas


8:31

the Big D jambur then you would get up


8:34

to the Louisiana hay Rod that was the


8:36

big time you know and the then the step


8:38

above the Louisiana Hy Rod was the


8:41

Opry well a lot of guitar players uh


8:45

from the area and otherwise came to


8:48

sheveport for work cuz they could get


8:51

work perhaps on the on the Louisiana hay


8:53

ride and they could certainly get work


8:54

playing in the clubs and so you ended up


8:57

with a group of guys that that all ended


9:00

up playing telecasters all experimented


9:04

with banjo strings and all mixed


9:08

Blues a lot of lightning Hopkins uh they


9:11

mixed the Scotty Moore style that was on


9:14

the Elvis records they mixed you know


9:17

kind of the ched Atkins thing they mixed


9:20

you know the the string bending style


9:22

which of course was made you know you


9:24

could do it because of the banjo strings


9:27

that they were also experimenting with


9:28

they also all were using flat picks and


9:31

a lot of them were using metal finger


9:33

picks also like Fred Carter Jr and James


9:36

Burton so it's really interesting these


9:39

guys


9:41

all are rubbing off on each other


9:43

they're all stealing each other's licks


9:45

They're all playing telecasters and so


9:47

again these guys are James Burton Fred


9:50

Carter Jr Billy Sanford and Roy Buchanan


9:54

all these guys are in the sheveport area


9:57

all around the same period of time and a


9:59

lot of they're playing with a lot of the


10:00

same artist even so you have a guy like


10:03

Dale Hawkins that has a hit with Susie Q


10:06

that you know originally he has James


10:08

Burton but then he ends up with Roy


10:10

Buchanan playing with him later and and


10:11

Roy's on my babe and you have you know


10:14

some of those guys played with David


10:15

Houston and they played with Bob Lumen


10:17

and all sorts of stuff so all these guys


10:20

were kind of formulating this guitar


10:23

style together and they were going and


10:24

seeing each other play and they were


10:26

stealing from each other in fact Billy


10:28

Sanford told told me a story about how


10:30

Billy and James Burton wanted to go see


10:34

uh Roy Buchanan play and of course Roy


10:38

was already doing amazing stuff in the


10:40

late 1950s and so they wanted to go see


10:43

him play and they had to be real careful


10:45

about doing it because they had to sneak


10:47

into the club and they didn't have to


10:48

sneak into the club because their age


10:50

they had to sneak into the club because


10:52

Roy Buchanan didn't want anyone to steal


10:54

his licks so if a guitar player that he


10:57

knew came in the bar he would dumb down


11:01

his playing and instead of playing Hot


11:03

Licks he would just play like you know


11:05

if he took a solo to like a straight


11:06

melody or something like that but he


11:08

wouldn't do the string bending or or U


11:11

you know behind the nut bends or


11:12

anything of that sort so they would have


11:16

to uh to sneak in to go see Roy and you


11:19

know they were stealing from him they


11:21

were all stealing from each other and


11:23

so who is the who is the guy the first


11:26

one to put banjo strings on a Telecaster


11:29

I don't know but all those guys were


11:30

doing it about the same time so uh I'm


11:34

I'm not going to you know make that call


11:36

but uh know that all of them were doing


11:38

that and all of them made you know very


11:41

significant impacts on the Telecaster


11:44

and the way it's played so of course you


11:46

had James goes out you know from


11:48

shareport he goes out to to Los Angeles


11:51

to play with Bob Lumen he's recording


11:53

out there and Ricky Nelson sees them and


11:57

he uh he steals the band away from from


11:59

Bob Lumen wasn't very nice of him but uh


12:01

you know of course it was a upgrade and


12:03

pay you know for for James and the rest


12:05

of the band and of course they end up on


12:07

national television and getting paid


12:09

well and you know of course James goes


12:11

on to become one of the most important


12:14

and significant Telecaster players of


12:16

all time um making a huge impact in the


12:19

Los Angeles area you know playing on


12:22

recordings by Merl Haggard and Buck


12:24

Owens of course all the Ricky Nelson


12:27

stuff you have the Graham Parson Emy L


12:29

Harris the Elvis things all that stuff


12:32

um in incredibly you know significant


12:36

then you have Fred Carter Jr who he went


12:40

off playing with Ronnie Hawkins Dale


12:43

Hawkins cousin and he goes up to Canada


12:46

and he takes the Telecaster to Canada


12:49

and helps popularize it with his own


12:51

playing and also through the playing of


12:54

his student Robbie Robertson and so


12:56

Robbie Robertson learns about B Jo


12:59

strings and metal finger picks and


13:01

telecasters and playing through Tweed


13:04

basem all that stuff comes from Fred


13:06

Carter Jr who was teaching him how to


13:08

play and so that's where you get that


13:12

style and of course you also have Roy


13:13

Buchanan goes up and plays for a short


13:16

period of time with uh Ronnie Hawkins


13:18

and he also shows uh Robbie Robertson


13:21

some licks and tricks but after um Fred


13:25

plays with um with Ronnie Hawkins he


13:29

moves to Nashville and he ends up


13:32

getting to be a very popular guitarist


13:36

here and ends up working a lot for Chad


13:39

Atkins doing a lot of sessions for him


13:41

he ends up playing on you know whan


13:43

Jennings recordings all sorts of stuff


13:46

and uh of course you you know famous


13:49

daughter Dena Carter that had hit with


13:51

strawberry


13:52

wine but uh also you have uh Billy


13:56

Sanford so Billy Sanford who is probably


14:00

um you know kind of like Fred Carter Jr


14:02

in that he's not a really wellknown


14:04

player but and the reason that Billy


14:07

Sanford isn't well known is that a lot


14:09

of the sessions that he played on it was


14:11

for Billy Cheryl who of course was doing


14:13

all the George Jones and Tammy wette


14:14

records and and he didn't put uh you


14:18

know credits on the albums even into the


14:20

70s when it got to be kind of a thing


14:22

where you put the credits on there Billy


14:23

Sheryl never did that and so you know


14:27

Billy played on tons tons of stuff but


14:30

Billy moved from sheveport straight to


14:33

Nashville in the early


14:35

1960s and he got a gig pretty quickly


14:39

playing with this guy named Roy


14:41

Orbison and in fact they they went and


14:44

toured in uh in England you know playing


14:47

shows with the Beatles they uh they came


14:51

back to Nashville and they were had a


14:53

recording session where they recorded


14:54

this tune called Pretty Woman and so


14:57

Billy is one of the guitarist on Pretty


14:59

Woman playing the Riff so there's four


15:01

guitarist on the session there's Roy


15:04

himself and I believe he's playing the


15:07

acoustic 12 string then there's Wayne


15:10

Moss Jerry Kennedy and Billy Sanford and


15:15

so depending on what they were trying to


15:18

do dynamically they would either have


15:20

one or more guitars play in the Riff so


15:23

sometimes you know like the first time


15:24

the Riff is played at the beginning of


15:25

the song it's just one guitar and then


15:27

as it goes along more and more guitars


15:29

come in to uh to give it more and more


15:32

impact so uh yeah so that was Billy and


15:35

of course playing on a big hit like


15:37

Pretty Woman uh helped Billy Sanford


15:40

start a session career in Nashville and


15:42

he had a 55 Telly and a do neck


15:45

335 and he starts playing on tons of


15:48

sessions and he also like Fred Carter Jr


15:51

ends up playing on whan Jennings


15:53

recordings and which is which is really


15:56

cool but also it's very sad because you


15:57

know whan was a great guitarist and whan


16:00

really didn't get to play much on his


16:02

own records until into the


16:04

1970s but uh there's a really great uh


16:08

Billy Sanford solo on a whan record it's


16:12

called Don't Let the Sun Go Down on you


16:14

in Tulsa it's a a mouthful of a title


16:18

but um that is some really great playing


16:22

by uh by old Billy Sanford so they


16:26

brought again it's it's those guys and


16:30

you know of course Ro Buchanan ends up


16:34

you know he does some different things


16:36

but then he he really ends up going back


16:37

to DC and then we don't really hear from


16:39

him again until you know in the early


16:41

70s when they have the PBS documentary


16:43

about him and he gets their deal with


16:45

poor and he does you know Roy Buchanan


16:47

and second album and on and on but These


16:51

Guys these sheveport guys they all kind


16:54

of had this thing in common they all you


16:58

know knew to use the back pickup and the


17:00

banjo strings and they you know they all


17:03

were listening to lightning Hopkins and


17:05

you have the Burton you know like him


17:07

doing Suzie


17:09

[Music]


17:15

Q you you have that kind of thing and


17:18

just kind of that whole dead thumb thing


17:20

that comes from lightning Hopkins that


17:22

all those guys did the


17:24

[Music]


17:32

and the string bending thing


17:38

that all that you know came out of those


17:41

guys and then they went in all


17:43

directions but it was you know it was


17:47

really I would give credit to Fred


17:49

Carter Jr and Billy Sanford really for


17:52

bringing the Telecaster to Nashville for


17:54

really kind of making it a thing and


17:57

making it acceptable also we have to


18:00

give credit to you know James you know


18:02

out in Los Angeles playing on hits with


18:05

you know with Merl Haggard and Buck


18:07

Owens and others that helps popularize


18:09

the sound and the Ricky Nelson


18:11

recordings I mean he made that


18:13

Telecaster sound popular in pop music


18:16

with Ricky Nelson and also you know in


18:18

country music with the stuff he was


18:19

doing with with with Merl and and buck


18:22

and so those things pushed the


18:25

Telecaster to really be acceptable and


18:27

so finally everyone started you know at


18:31

least having a Telecaster maybe it


18:33

wasn't their favorite instrument but you


18:34

know they had their 335 or what or a Les


18:38

Paul or what have you that they would


18:40

that maybe was their main instrument and


18:42

yet they'd have a Telecaster with them


18:44

so that they could uh you know get that


18:46

twangy greasy kid guitar sound uh if if


18:50

people wanted it and into the 70s you


18:52

know of course you get guys like you you


18:54

get Reggie young moving to town and one


18:57

of the early things he plays on is drift


18:59

away which of course has ales Paul


19:02

Deluxe playing the


19:05

intro and the stuff in the verse but


19:07

then that's a Telecaster doing


19:12

the you know doing that twangy low


19:15

string thing and then you even have


19:17

things like uh you know you have the


19:20

Kindles you know doing Heavens just to


19:22

sin away and that's Fred Nell and so


19:24

Fred Nell is another guy that needs to


19:26

be given credit for kind of


19:29

uh popularizing and and keeping the


19:31

Telecaster you know kind of building in


19:34

popularity throughout the 70s you know


19:36

along with Reggie and others and then


19:40

really in the 1980s even though you know


19:42

everyone was playing strats uh there


19:45

were a number of guys you know


19:47

high-profile guys that were playing


19:48

telecasters in the 80s that were really


19:51

you know kind of making it cool in


19:52

Nashville and that was you know you had


19:54

Steve Warner playing a Glazer Telly you


19:57

had Ricky skags doing the same thing


19:59

Ricky Skaggs guitarist Ray Flack playing


20:01

Itali and playing all those great


20:03

solos and uh you know and that kind of


20:06

paves the way for you know for guys like


20:09

Brent Mason who who comes up you know as


20:11

a major session guy in the late 1980s


20:14

early 90s and uh and to me that's when


20:17

you really enter the era of where the


20:19

Telecaster is kind of King I really


20:22

don't think it becomes the the the big


20:25

guitar in Nashville until the 1990s and


20:27

I think a lot of it had to do with Brent


20:30

Mason so uh you as far as him


20:33

solidifying the uh the place that the


20:36

Telecaster now holds but we need to give


20:38

credit to those uh those early cats um


20:42

Fred Carter Jr and Billy Sanford And


20:44

even back to to Jabo and just a a side


20:48

note on on Jabo Arrington his


20:50

broadcaster number


20:52

0048 uh ended up being sold to uh Vince


20:57

Gil in the last decade or so so and


20:59

Vince played the broadcaster with Little


21:02

Jimmy Dickens on stage and then when


21:04

Little Jimmy Dickens passed away he uh


21:07

he played the uh jabos broadcaster on


21:10

the memorial service and I thought that


21:12

was a a really cool you know kind of uh


21:17

you know way of of remembering Jabo and


21:20

and and his you know


21:23

significance all right guys well I'm


21:25

going to make a Spotify playlist just to


21:29

uh you know give you some early you know


21:32

Nashville Telecaster stuff and that'll


21:35

be there'll be a link in the description


21:36

for that also I'm going to link to a


21:39

great article by my friend Rich Kinsley


21:41

and really the only reason I know about


21:44

Jabo is from Rich Kinsley because Rich


21:47

did a compilation CD for Guitar Player


21:50

magazine uh back in in the late late '


21:55

80s early '90s


21:56

and uh and it had uh Jabo and Grady


22:00

Martin playing uh you know little on


22:03

Little Jimmy Dickens sorry you know I'm


22:04

out of business which I love that track


22:07

and if I'll put that on the playlist and


22:09

then of course Rich Kinsley wrote a


22:11

wonderful article for um vintage guitar


22:13

magazine talking about Vince Gill


22:15

getting the Jabo broadcaster and such so


22:18

I'll put a link to that article also


22:20

because if you want to do a little bit


22:21

of a deeper dive uh you can follow that


22:24

up all right guys well I hope you've


22:27

enjoyed today's episode and I'll see you


22:29

next time bye-bye