0:31
well hello friends and welcome to ask
0:33
Zack So today we're going to answer the
0:36
question how did we get light gauge
0:38
guitar strings have you ever thought
0:40
about that you know or how about this
0:43
question have you ever wondered why
0:46
everyone makes a set of tens all the
0:49
string
0:50
manufacturers make a set of tens that
0:53
are the exact same
0:54
gauges 10 13 17 26 36 46
1:00
or set of nines they're all 9 11 16 24
1:04
32 42 or 8s 8 through 38 why is that do
1:09
you think they had a meeting at some
1:11
Italian restaurant you think uh you know
1:12
all the string guys you know met up and
1:15
did that nope they didn't the story is
1:18
much better than that so today we're
1:20
going to answer those questions and
1:22
we're also going to talk about the
1:23
Mavericks that uh you know basically
1:26
started using banjo strings and are the
1:30
reason that uh we have light gauge
1:32
strings we're talking about the first
1:34
manufacturer to release light gauge
1:37
strings that ended up being copied by
1:39
everyone
1:40
else all right before we dive in I have
1:44
to thank my patreon members because they
1:47
are what keeps this show going they are
1:50
important to me and I'm very grateful so
1:53
if you'd like to join them if you
1:54
appreciate the work that I'm doing then
1:56
uh check out the link in the description
1:59
or you can always you know hit the tip
2:01
jar or pick up a T-shirt and I
2:03
appreciate
2:04
it all right so let's get some context
2:07
and I need to thank Joe span at Grom
2:10
guitars for helping me out a lot with uh
2:12
with some of this early research um you
2:16
know gron guitars besides being one of
2:18
the greatest you know and probably most
2:21
popular and greatest vintage guitar
2:22
shops uh they also have an incredible uh
2:26
archive and uh they were able to go to
2:28
their archives and really look at this
2:30
stuff so that I could uh uh really help
2:33
you out so again thank you to Joe and
2:35
thank you to George and all the cats at
2:37
Grom
2:38
guitars all right so in the
2:41
1950s if you bought guitar
2:44
strings you uh the most commonly
2:46
available set was made by Black Diamond
2:49
strings and black diamond strings could
2:52
be found in music stores or in like
2:53
General Stores you know where you get
2:55
your Dapper Dan to put in your hair uh
2:58
or you know they probably some apartment
3:00
stores and things like that had uh
3:02
displays with uh Black Diamond
3:05
strings Black Diamond strings had one
3:07
set that was for acoustic and electric
3:09
now a lot of this is a whole another
3:11
thing whole other Rabbit Trail we could
3:13
go down is that there was no difference
3:15
between electric and acoustic guitar
3:17
strings back then everything was nickel
3:20
strings that was it you know there
3:23
weren't all these different phosphorus
3:24
bronze and 8020 and things like that
3:26
that would be developed you know later
3:28
on
3:31
so and the gauge the only gauge
3:33
available was 13 through 56 with a wound
3:37
third that was somewhere around a it was
3:39
in the upper 20s or a 30 for a g string
3:43
that's a heavy set of strings and that
3:46
was all that was available besides the
3:49
strings that like VC Squire was making
3:52
strings for Fender and they had a
3:54
slightly lighter set that was like 12
3:56
through 52 53 and it also had a wound
3:59
third and and then Gibson had their
4:00
somatics that were like 12 through 52
4:03
around you know the same same kind of
4:05
set and that was all that was
4:09
available however there were some
4:11
Mavericks out
4:13
there that decided that they figured out
4:17
that banjo strings had uh their banjo
4:21
sets had some a lighter string in there
4:25
so let's take a look at a banjo set so
4:30
this is a set of Martin Vega banjo
4:33
strings that's kind of that is the
4:35
closest thing to the Vintage set that's
4:37
available and it has five strings
4:40
because of course this is five string
4:41
Bluegrass banjo and it comes with 10 12
4:47
16 then a 23 and then another 10 of
4:50
course the second 10 is for the little
4:52
um the little fifth string that has the
4:54
banjo Peg about halfway up the the neck
4:57
on the
4:58
banjo so
5:00
some guys and I'm just going to give
5:02
credit here to who was probably the
5:06
first if you know if he if he wasn't the
5:08
first he was one of the first and that's
5:09
James Burton so James Burton he took a
5:14
he took banjo strings and he put them on
5:17
his guitar and used a mix of these banjo
5:20
strings so he probably used the both of
5:23
the 10 and then the 12 for a g string
5:26
and then used the 23 for his uh
5:30
you know D string and then he used
5:32
probably the the the G and D or perhaps
5:36
the D and a strings off of a regular
5:38
guitar set okay
5:41
now we need to make sure you understand
5:43
what's involved here so I bought this
5:46
banjo set just so I'd kind of understand
5:48
what's going on here
5:50
so let's find here we go so here's banjo
5:56
so you think oh I'm just going to put a
5:58
set of banjo Strings On My Guitar
6:00
well guess
6:01
what they don't have a ball end they
6:05
have a loop end because you know banjos
6:09
just have this little you know little
6:11
you know kind of little ledge thing that
6:12
you're able to hook that you hook that
6:15
onto and then you put the banjo string
6:17
on so to do this you have to take a
6:22
guitar
6:24
string and you get some
6:28
clippers you're going to clip this
6:32
off hopefully this doesn't go flying all
6:35
right so you're going to throw that
6:37
guitar string away usually this would be
6:38
the low E string that was like a 56 that
6:41
you don't care about anyway and then
6:44
you're going to carefully put this tiny
6:48
ball end and you're going to put it in
6:51
the loop and you have to hold it with
6:55
some pliers cuz otherwise you can't hold
6:57
it in place and then you're going to
6:58
twist it around twist twist it twist it
7:00
twist it and hopefully you do it right
7:01
and this is not easy so this was
7:04
something that James Burton and other
7:06
cats did that were super serious
7:10
about innovating and creating new you
7:14
know guitar Styles and that's what they
7:16
did so James along with guys like Roy
7:21
Buchanan Billy Sanford and all and these
7:24
other cats that were in you know the
7:25
shareport Louisiana Louisiana hay ride
7:28
guys also guys out in Los Angeles also
7:31
guys in Chicago so all these cats were
7:34
doing it and so we don't have a perfect
7:36
timeline of this of course I'm going to
7:37
say Burton was probably the first or one
7:40
of the first but also you know later on
7:43
you would get guys like the ventures
7:45
Merl Travis ched Atkins uh Mike
7:48
Bloomfield you know Mike Bloomfield
7:51
would take a banjo string a 10 and he'd
7:54
put it as his first string and then he'd
7:56
throw away the low E string and do that
7:59
that was the thing that was the most
8:00
common thing to do Burton was kind of
8:03
the exception in that he was using a a
8:06
couple of the bjo strings to make a
8:08
really light set and uh but a lot of
8:12
guys would just use a banjo 10 as a high
8:16
E string and then they would take a a
8:18
regular you know set of strings and they
8:19
would just again throw away the low E
8:22
string so now we got to bring another
8:27
character into this and his name is
8:29
Ernie Ball we're talking about Ernie
8:30
Ball the man Ernie Ball was a steel
8:34
guitarist and he opened a you know I
8:37
mean we could spend a whole episode just
8:39
talking about Arnie ball and there's a
8:40
number of good uh episodes that have
8:43
done done by other shows talking about
8:45
Ernie Ball the man but we're going to
8:46
talk about the significance of Ernie
8:48
Ball the man right here as far as you
8:50
know
8:51
strings so Ernie Ball opens a guitar
8:55
shop in Tarzana now what was unusual
8:57
about this was that you know most places
9:00
were you know Furniture shops that had
9:01
some guitars or they did band
9:03
instruments and other stuff well Arie
9:05
Ball's shop was one of the first or
9:08
perhaps the first guitar only guitar
9:11
shop now Ernie was a a smart businessman
9:16
and he understood that if he was going
9:18
to sell instruments he needed to peel to
9:21
the young crowd and he needed to have
9:23
instruments that were easy to play so
9:25
that people would stick with it and they
9:28
would move up the line buying
9:30
instruments so you know you have the guy
9:32
that comes in and they buy a uh a music
9:35
master or a Duo Sonic or you know Les
9:38
Paul Jr and then they move up to a Les
9:41
Paul Standard or a custom or a
9:43
Stratocaster or a Telecaster or whatever
9:47
so the greatest impediment the speed
9:50
bump in in the situation that Ernie Ball
9:53
saw was the strings that were being put
9:56
on guitars he thought that they needed
9:59
to have an Unwound third and so part of
10:03
this was probably from his own
10:04
experience but also this was from the
10:07
people that were coming into his shop so
10:11
Ernie Ball being down in Tarzana being a
10:13
guitaron shop well he's near Los Angeles
10:17
so all the cool hip guitar players of
10:19
the day are coming down to visit Ernie
10:23
like James Burton and Merl Travis and
10:26
the ventures we're talking late 50s
10:28
early 60s
10:30
so he's a lot of times they're bringing
10:32
their guitar in or they're talking about
10:34
their guitar and he's finding out about
10:37
the banjo string thing he's finding out
10:39
that a lot of the studio guys in LA are
10:42
getting a banjo string a banjo tin for
10:46
their High E string and then they're
10:47
dropping you know then they're dropping
10:48
the whole set down so that they have
10:51
kind of what ends up being you know 10
10:53
through 44 or something like that and
10:56
then of course James Burton goes in
10:58
there and Ernie sees you know James
11:00
Burton's gauges and stuff
11:03
so Ernie contacts Leo Fender and he says
11:09
I need strings with an Unwound third and
11:13
Leo Fender says no way because Leo is
11:16
not interested at all because his
11:18
instruments are designed around the
11:20
strings that he he is using at that
11:22
point which are 12 through 52 with a
11:25
wound third that's why the pickups are
11:28
stag the way they are you know cuz you
11:32
get staggered pickups on the Strat you
11:34
know when it's released and you get
11:35
staggered pickups on the Telly you know
11:37
by 55
11:40
56 and they're staggered to go with the
11:44
string the strings of the day so Leo has
11:48
no interest in helping him you know or
11:52
making strings to to his specs or what
11:54
have you but Fender is not making
11:56
strings anyway it's VC squire that
11:59
Fender of course CBS will end up
12:01
purchasing in 1965 but that's again
12:03
that's a whole another story but VC
12:05
Squire is making strings for Fender and
12:08
so somehow either through Leo or Leo
12:11
connects Ernie Ball with VC
12:14
Squire and Ernie ask them to make
12:19
sets and he has them packaged up and
12:23
they're called rock and roll guitar
12:27
strings and they have this wonderful
12:30
font that will be very familiar to
12:33
anyone that's ever bought Arie ball
12:34
guitar
12:35
strings and they have those great colors
12:39
already this is
12:41
1962 and guess
12:44
what Ernie Ball is a guy that created
12:49
what we think of as a 10 set the nine
12:52
set the eight set those are all from
12:56
Ernie Ball he created those so when you
13:00
think of a 10 set 10 through 46 Ernie
13:03
Ball is the one that created that set
13:06
and the fact and everyone else copied it
13:08
nine set same thing so their original
13:11
offerings were you know they were the
13:14
rock and roll guitar strings and they
13:16
just kind of said Ernie Ball in small
13:17
letters and they had the the great
13:19
colors that we think of are that are
13:21
kind of classic Ernie
13:23
Ball and they uh they had the super
13:27
Slinky set which was 9 through 42 and
13:31
that was the and that was the only
13:32
string that was using the word Slinky in
13:34
it so it wasn't yet you know they they
13:37
kind of uh main branding besides the
13:40
name Ernie Ball so you had the slinky
13:43
set you had the regular set which was 10
13:45
through 46 you had a rhythm guitar set
13:48
you had the uh 8 through 38 and then you
13:51
also had what was called rhythm guitar
13:53
which was kind of your normal set of the
13:56
day which was like you know 12 through
13:59
52 so just so they had kind of a
14:01
complete set so for those guys that
14:02
really wanted to keep using the kind of
14:05
strings that they had in the past uh but
14:08
just under Ernie Ball's name or the rock
14:10
and roll name and the whole point of the
14:12
rock and roll name was to appeal to
14:15
young people and it did it appealed to
14:18
people that uh wanted to play in new
14:22
Styles and to play rock and roll you
14:24
know the the hip players like James
14:28
Burton and Ventures and others they were
14:30
using an Unwound third and so if you
14:33
wanted to have that young hip rock and
14:35
roll sound you needed rock and roll
14:37
strings and you needed strings with an
14:39
Unwound
14:41
third so uh of course Ernie again these
14:45
strings are being made by VC Squire they
14:48
are pure nickel which of course that
14:51
only has anything to do with the wound
14:52
string so you have steel you know
14:55
Unwound strings and then you have pure
14:57
nickel round core or uh base strings or
15:01
you know wound strings and that was kind
15:05
of the standard of the day and that's
15:07
how they were made and remember Ernie
15:10
Ball is a guitar shop you know down in
15:13
Tarzana and so I mean he couldn't be
15:15
making strings at that point anyway
15:17
because I mean who what guitar shop has
15:19
a string winding facility in their in
15:21
their
15:22
backyard so these strings become very
15:25
popular very quickly because they're
15:28
they're here you know LA and all the the
15:32
young rock and roll guys are coming
15:35
through there you get Clapton Jeff Beck
15:39
Jimmy pagee everyone starts using rock
15:42
and roll strings and they become very
15:46
popular to the point that everybody
15:49
copies
15:51
them so Darko strings they start making
15:55
funky strings which were the exact same
15:58
gauges now I will say that there is a
16:00
difference in that apparently Darko was
16:04
the first to be using nickel plated
16:06
steel and apparently they started with
16:08
hexcore later on so it was a slightly
16:11
different set as far as the makeup of it
16:13
but they were copying the the font they
16:17
were copying the
16:19
colors and they copied the gauges you
16:22
know 10 through 46 the exact same
16:23
strings that the you know that Ernie
16:25
balls 10 through 46 was the same thing
16:28
with uh ghs strings they did the same
16:31
thing and they uh you know they uh they
16:34
copied their font also and uh and their
16:37
look and the the coloring you know of
16:39
the packaging trying to use those kind
16:40
of neon is colors and and it's here I
16:44
need to add that uh you know Ernie Ball
16:46
had a guy named Roland Crump design the
16:50
packaging for Ernie Ball so that's where
16:52
you get the eagle from that's where you
16:53
get the really cool font and stuff and
16:55
he was also involved with Disney with
16:57
the It's a Small World after
16:59
all so then here comes the big one
17:03
Fender post Leo Fender so this is in
17:07
1966 Fender finally responds to what
17:11
Ernie Ball is doing so Ernie Ball's been
17:13
doing this since 1962 so four years
17:16
later Leo Fender is gone it's
17:19
1966 and at least he's a consultant at
17:22
that point he's not running the show and
17:25
Fender releases their 150 rock and roll
17:28
set that's the other thing all most
17:30
these guys use will also use the term
17:33
rock and roll I think Darko uses
17:36
funky um
17:39
but they all copied it and fenders know
17:43
they copied the term rock and roll which
17:45
I'm sure I wish you know they probably
17:47
wish they would have trademarked it or
17:48
maybe they couldn't trademark it but uh
17:52
Fender set is different so they they go
17:56
10 through 38 which is kind of a curious
17:59
set that was like 10 13 15 26 32
18:04
38 now this set becomes very popular
18:08
because Fender has wider distribution
18:11
than Ernie Ball but again this set only
18:15
exists because of Ernie
18:17
Ball and Fender does well with this
18:20
string
18:21
set so by the late 1960s with all these
18:26
other string manufacturers copying Arie
18:29
ball and uh and using the term rock and
18:32
roll and copying their colors and
18:36
everything Ernie they uh they changed
18:39
the packaging to make rock and roll kind
18:41
of in in not as much emphasis on it and
18:45
they start putting the emphasis on
18:47
Slinky so then you start seeing strings
18:49
they're all Slinky and so then you have
18:52
you know regular Slinky extra Slinky
18:54
super Slinky and on and on or the skinny
18:57
top heavy bottom and uh and you see
19:00
Ernie Ball as the focus of the packaging
19:03
and then you have rock and roll and and
19:05
the other things and and they really
19:09
kill it and they become very popular
19:11
with with all the guitar players and
19:13
then you have all the other string
19:14
companies copying them um kind of the
19:17
next couple of innovations that kind of
19:19
happen are you know in the in the early'
19:23
70s there's a shift away from Pure
19:26
nickel on the wound strings and that's
19:28
because of cost and also because when
19:31
you use nickel plated steel it gets a
19:34
brighter string so as far as the wound
19:37
strings and so a lot of people liked
19:38
that now of course there's a lot of
19:40
holdouts and there's guys that that's
19:42
why you can still get pure nickel
19:43
strings to this day pure nickel strings
19:46
are you know a little darker a little
19:48
more they have a little bit more
19:50
fundamental over harmonic stuff and they
19:52
have less brassiness going
19:55
on and but a lot of people really like
19:59
the uh the nickel-plated steel so pretty
20:01
much most of the manufacturers ernieball
20:04
Darko ghs Fender they start offering a
20:08
nickel plated Steel Set you know
20:10
starting in the early '70s and then the
20:14
next thing that's really
20:16
important is uh is the the development
20:20
of the hex core which I believe didario
20:25
was the one that kind of pushed for that
20:27
and they were the ones to start with and
20:29
other companies followed suit with that
20:31
and that was because the hex core on the
20:34
W strings it held on to the wraps better
20:37
and also you didn't have as many issues
20:39
when you know cutting the string and and
20:42
and getting it on the guitar actually
20:43
stringing up the guitar because with a
20:45
pure nickel set with a round core or
20:48
actually any any wound string with a
20:50
round core you have to give it like a
20:52
right angle you have to give it a really
20:54
hard bend on it uh and then and then you
20:58
cut it after that otherwise it can come
21:01
Unwound and that's not good and sounds
21:04
terrible so that's how kind of we get to
21:07
uh modern guitar strings but we have to
21:10
give a uh a big thanks to uh to Ernie
21:14
Ball we have to give you know they're
21:16
they're responsible for you know the
21:18
string gauges that we see is a nine set
21:21
and a 10 set um eight set you know the
21:25
skinny top heavy bottom uh that's that's
21:28
all Ernie Ball they they developed that
21:30
and they're the ones they're the reasons
21:32
why we have light gauge strings
21:34
available to us because before that it
21:38
was just the pros that were buying you
21:40
know multiple they were buying a guitar
21:43
set and either a bjo string or a whole
21:45
banjo set and they were making these
21:49
custom sets and so they're the guys that
21:52
uh that pushed it so I guess you know we
21:54
need to thank James Burton and uh and
21:57
all of his you know kind of disciples
21:59
and other cats that uh that did it
22:01
either you know probably later on like
22:03
Mike Bloomfield and uh you know Merl
22:06
Travis and all these other cats that uh
22:08
you know all started taking a banjo
22:10
string putting it on the highe and then
22:12
moving everything down but all that
22:14
stopped when Ernie Ball started making
22:16
strings you know because you didn't need
22:18
to go you didn't need to do the you know
22:20
the banjo string trick anymore because
22:23
all you had to do was get a set Ernie
22:25
balls and throw them on your guitar yeah
22:27
who wants to
22:29
wrap that you know cut a ball end off a
22:32
you know a string that you're not even
22:33
going to use and wrap it around there
22:36
all right well and again all modern
22:40
guitar playing Styles all have to do
22:42
with this so again I think this is one
22:44
of the most important
22:45
Innovations um of the electric guitar
22:47
ever is the development of light gauge
22:50
strings so I need to thank the guys at
22:53
Ernie Ball for helping me out with info
22:55
including uh Chris and uh Derek and uh
23:00
you know I need to also thank again Joe
23:02
span at George grun uh gr's guitar shop
23:06
and uh thank you so much for helping me
23:08
out and I really appreciate it so guys
23:12
you know pick up a pine or or next time
23:14
you're you're playing you know your your
23:16
guitar strings and uh and your light
23:19
gauge set and you're bending your
23:20
Unwound third you need to thank Ernie
23:22
Ball and James Burton and all those
23:24
other Mavericks that uh made it possible
23:26
for us all right thank you guys and
23:30
bye-bye