this episode of ask Zack is a collaboration with
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trone well hello friends and welcome to the trone lounge today we are in the
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studio of Vince Gill probably one of the most uh celebrated and awardwinning
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musicians of our time I just collude with the Russians it's the only reason I got any of that
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stuff that's the only reason well we're we're going to talk we're going to talk guitars today and we're going to have a
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good time cool and if we don't have a good time then we're going to quit then it's our fault yeah it's our fault so uh
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of course we're going to talk about guitars but I have to talk about you know your you're singing your voice because that's kind of what got your
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foot in the door so when was it that you know people started saying that because
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of course people you know little kids can perform and no matter what they think they're cute but when was it that you started really getting noticed for
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your voice well it was later you know it took it took me a long time to gather
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the courage to sing really yeah I didn't mind playing the guitar cuz I could keep my head down and I could hide yeah but
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once I I started to try to sing that was I was much more bashful than I ever knew
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and and then I realized I could sing okay you know and and the more I did it
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um the better I got at it and that's kind of what I knew if I was going to
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have a shot at doing anything it would be my voice you know there's a bunch of guitar Slingers out there that can all
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play me under the table and I knew that from day one but um but that voice I
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knew I could it would it would just be you know a lot of the Bluegrass gigs that I got early in my teenage years I
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played whatever was left over in the band I play Mand in one band because I didn't have one I play banjo I play guitar and just depending on what they
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needed but they always wanted the singer you know so yeah and and then as I you
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know was playing with a bunch of different bands Pure Prairie League and few other
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folks like that I was a sid man for a while and still do that you know and sessions and things but um when I
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decided I was going to try to be an artist and find my way into the country music world it's not a it's not a long
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list of guitar Heroes you know that that are shredded and players and all that there's a handful that can really go but
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I knew that my ticket would be singing and songs you know yeah and was some
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decent songs to her to show up then everything kind of did what it
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did what did you do with um to hone your voice I mean were there guys that you
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worked with that really kind of gave you a hard time or really pushed you as far as your singing or like producers that
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you worked with yeah early on you know it was I I think it's interesting I
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think most people assume that you were at your best when when you had the most success and I don't believe that I think
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I'm a better singer now than I was when I had all my hits and um my ears tell me
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that and that's all I've ever listened to anyway yeah you know it's what what my ears told me to do and not to do and
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I guess some great advice when I was just first starting to make my my first records 40 some years ago and it was
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sweet emry Gordy who you know I was singing something it's a real traditional country song and he got on
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the talk back he goes hey I don't mean this rudely but we already have a George
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Jones and you're not him you know and it was great advice it stung yeah you know
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but I I get it okay he said just find a way to sing like you yeah you you've
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done a lot of session singing you've done so much Harmon and PE so much stuff
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that people aren't even aware of yeah and and part of it is that uh and what this hits on what you said before to be
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a good Harmony singer you have to be a bit of a mimic because you you have to be able to blend with the other vocalist
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so so I guess that kind of plays into you know you you were kind of like okay this is a kind of a George Jones song
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I'm going to sing like George Jones yeah yeah I mean it um it's to me it's a
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harder job being a sid man or being a session singer session player because you have to do what you do that fits
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what you're doing you know can't just go free wheel it all the time you know right and and so I always felt like when
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I was young that's what I dreamt of being not a star yeah you know I said I want to be the guy that's on the back of
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the record covers that that plays and sings on people's records and and that's what I really aspired to do and and even
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though I I had a great run of success I still I love the process of of being a
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contributor yeah you know it's a very I use this word all the time nauseum sometime but it's a very Democratic
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process yeah the way you make a record and the way you gather with people and serve a song is what kind of supposed to
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do not care about who gets all the attention or who gets to be the loudest or whatever you know show off and if you
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just do what's necessary you don't get noticed it'll it'll help what you're doing it'll make it better and so that's
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all I've I've continued to do cuz I I love the process you know I still do it
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all the time here and I know that there's a bunch of Records out there that people wouldn't have any idea that it's me yeah you know I think it was
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like a Aaron tippen record or something there was some something that that you would sing and it was like I I had to
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really listen hard and it was realizing that you were just blending in with his vocal sing and that was that was a those
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were hard sessions because his voice was very nasly and kind of piercing and mine
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isn't you know and so I had to affect my voice in a way that would work with his
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you know and that's you know the phrasing all that kind of stuff it's really hard to do you know it's a
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challenge and I love I love the challenge you know and I I love you know I remember when I first started singing
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on Conway Twitty's records um his wife D pulled me aside she said now look he's real particular
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about his Harmony singing I said I'll bet you a dollar that he thinks I'm his brother when we're done you know cuz I
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I'll have it I'll have it seamless I'll have it tight I'll have it you know just the way it's supposed to be that's what
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I I always wanted to be Phil Everly or I always wanted to be Don Rich when I was a kid that's what I loved and and if you
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can take what you do and enhance somebody else and make it blend and there's a there's a thing that happens
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when singers sing together when it's just right uh it it has a I'm not sure the
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right word you know a buzz there's there's a buzz that happens it's like a guitar if one String's a little sharp
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and one String's a little flat they beat against each other you know and when great Harmony singing is really really
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good man it's it's seamless and it doesn't it doesn't doesn't waver I get one of the points I want to
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make people have this tendency to think that people are just born with this talent and then they just you know they
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just take it forward but you put in a lot of hard work into doing this into being able to blend you know we're just
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talking about your vocals now but just that that you know really listening and really working hard at it
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yeah and it's you know it what what what the listener doesn't get to hear is how
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many times you screw it up yeah before you get it right whether it's a solo whether it's a vocal whether it's
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whatever you do we were having me and Rodney Crow were having a conversation with Fred Foster one time and we were
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telling Fred said man you guys were way better you know the way you did it you just it was all live you know you just
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that was Roy or or Roy orberson records were live and just you just did it you
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know and we're overdubbing and fixing and splicing and and Fred laughed he said well you might think that but the
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next time you listen to he named one of Roy's great hits he said you have to understand Roy's voice didn't open up
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until the 47th take he said between take 47 and take 53
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we took those passes and cut the record together out of those passes where his
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voice was the very best that it that it was yeah on the session and it's it's
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the same process you know just a little bit backwards now what they're able to do with technology after the fact is
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astounding yeah you know if you use technology for the right reason you're not taking the soul out of something you
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know people all the time they kind of about autotune and this and that I go the singer is either interesting or
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they're not and all that's doing is making them more in tune yeah it's not making them more interesting yeah you
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know doesn't give their boys more character so it's either there it isn't you know that's that's the deal for me
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with singers that you know sing the phone book and all that but there's something about their voice that doesn't speak to me and a lesser singer that
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can't sing the phone book but there's something about their voice that's compelling to me I'd rather I'd rather
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hear that you know still that way did your parents support you when I
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mean Ian because your dad was a a lawyer and and a judge and so were they
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dismissive at all of you wanting to do music for a living not one day not one
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conversation my father was a frustrated banjo player yeah you know not very good I thought he was Earl Scruggs but turns
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out he wasn't very good at all but Mom played the harmonica a little bit so they all loved music there was always
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records played at my house and and I heard my mom I tell this story at
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nauseum too most of my stories everybody's heard but all the it's all you got the stories you got you know
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yeah and my mom was getting interviewed after I'd had a nice of success and she
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said did it bother you that your son didn't uh take a more traditional route
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with his life and go get an education and a real job and da D and she smiled said no I didn't I didn't really care
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much about having a rich kid yeah she said but I sure wanted to have a happy kid yeah you know and that music made
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him happy yeah and that's kind of how I roll as a dad you know I want my kids to
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be joyful I want to love their life and you know some people look at a
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musician's life and think it's it's bad and it's hard and it's all you know all that stuff I go what what's wrong with
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my life you know why would you want your kids to do what you did I go what I did was a blast yeah you know and very few
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people get to do something they love for their living you know and I was lucky I
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got to still doing it were you a good student terrible awful I'll tell you good I I
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had algebra in ninth grade and math didn't make any sense to me I could barely balance a
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checkbook and so I take algebra in ninth grade and I flunk every paper every
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daily paper every test like I don't just kind of flunk it I'm getting 16s 19s I
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don't get 48s and 51s or anything 12s and 11s and I get my report card at the
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end of the year and it said D minus which meant I passed you know and I went
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to the teacher and I go what'd you give me a D minus for I didn't even come close he goes yeah no kidding he goes I
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don't care you tried he said this will never make sense to you he said I don't
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want you to ever have to see this again that's why I passed you wow he said you just keep playing your guitar and don't
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worry about Algebra I mean yeah he had a much bigger view rather than perspective
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yeah it was pretty cool how did you you you were a blueg grasser mhm and and
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what made you switch into playing electric music what inspired you to get into electric music well I had played
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electric prior the Bluegrass uh you had that 335 red 335 that my dad mom and dad
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got me when I was 10 and I was playing rock all the rock and roll songs of the day and playing Rocky Mountain Way in my
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bedroom and all the little garage bands and everything we had our the handful of songs we knew and I was turn up loud and
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all that stuff and then I got I got turned on by Bluegrass by a friend of
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mine named Bobby Clark who's a really fine mandolin player from Oklahoma City and we grew up two blocks apart and I
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never knew he was a musician and I went over to his dad's house one day I'd broken a string on my dad's bjo and
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didn't know how to fix it I knew if I I'd catch hell if I didn't fix it you
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know so Bobby's dead Charlie fixed it for me and said do you you play music don't You and I said yeah couple garage
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bands and we play dances at school you ever played any blueg grass I said no not a not a note and he put an acoustic
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guitar in my hand and he said my son Bobby's a really good musician and and
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uh we started you know I started playing and said hey we we just lost our lead singer would you want to join our band
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and I said man I don't know anything about this music but it came pretty easily MH and I just loved it you know I
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loved the the process I think great Bluegrass rocks as hard as the Rolling Stones well
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and also that in the middle yeah and also that was an ERA when bluegrass was really doing interesting things you had
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you had Sam Bush with new grass Revival and you had JD Crow and you had the new South and you had all these bands that
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were really bringing a new energy s seen country gentlemen and I was playing all these Bluegrass festivals last couple
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years of high school and I met all those people I met Ricky I met Marty Stewart I met Marco Conor when he was 12 and it
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was it was crazy that that music bonded me to so many people that I
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still have great relationships with to this day and I don't think I would be
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the harmony singer I am I don't think I'd be the musician I am or the songwriter I am without a little dose of
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Bluegrass in those early years yeah so what was it that got you into electric music again after the Bluegrass phase it
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was just a a fluke thing you know I was still I'd moved out to California when I
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was 19 and I still loved play electrically
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and was a Steely Dan fan all those kinds of records that I loved and and moving
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to California it was all out there you know I remember I went to see Larry Carlton play when I first moved there
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and I had my 335 and I went to Santa Monica Civic and her didn't play and just lifechanging way he bent those
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strings and how Soulful he played and and I took my guitar to the shop and I
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said I need one of those top tail pieces that's what I was going to ask you I was like I heard you I was like is that when
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you put the stop TI on exactly right you know and so I you know I'd go into the clubs and hey you want to sit in I said
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yeah and then they go let's Play something country or something Blu grassy go I want to I want to bend strings and play some of this other
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stuff some of this fusy Jazzy kind of things and and then uh a friend of mine
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called me one day and said hey I'm going to go audition for Pure prayer League you want to go I said yeah I'll go with
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you I said I opened for them when I was in high school yeah it' be fun to see them again and
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so we went to this thing and and uh introduced myself they said aren't you
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the kid from Oklahoma that plays all the different instruments and I said yeah I said would you be interested in this gig
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we need a lead singer and guitar player and I said no I'm playing with this guy named Byron Burl great field player and
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um I said I'm not really looking for he they said well come back and jam with us tomorrow I said okay so I got to take my
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my little red 335 and an amp down there and fired it all the way up dimed it and
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having a blast I said this is kind of fun and I said H I'll I'll come out I'll go out with you for a while see made a
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few records and had a couple of hits and it was a great experience you know I got to see the music business for real yeah
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got to see the touring business for real and buses and uh it was a great great uh
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great learning experience for me and that's kind of when I got the bug to maybe think about being my own artist
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and yeah doing my songs things like that with pure per League were you a sid man
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or were you did you have like an ownership stake there wasn't much to own
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yeah you know they just out there playing college gigs and they didn't sell a lot of Records there was no there
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was no big upside to being a partner or anything you know yeah um and they you
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know I had just started writing songs when I joined them in 78 and they said do you do you write
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songs and I said yeah I got a few you know and I had written seven songs total
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and they cut five of them and they were all awful they were horrible songs I
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listened back to him now go oh my God but you had to write those you can't even pass algebra and you think you're
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writing songs now but um anyway that got me started writing songs and little by
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little they got better and better and better and whatever but um those were fun days you know I never I never cared
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what role I played in music I didn't have to be the front guy I didn't have to be talking in between songs I didn't
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have to be the league guitar player I didn't have to none of it mattered you know I just liked being a part of the
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process and when I when I started playing with with the Eagles and that's
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my favorite comment Don made about me was they asked him they said why'd you get the country guy to be in your band
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he goes he knows how to be in a band yeah you know that was a great compliment cuz you do know you you you
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know your spot yeah you know how to be a Harmony singer you know how to be a a a sid Man guitar player you know how to
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how to do that gig we were playing I you love this story and he Don's playing percussion we're playing Rocky Mountain
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Way and I'm over there going I'm it's like I'm in my bedroom you know I'm playing with Joe and we're playing Rocky
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Mountain Way and I'm just throttling these power cords for Joe just ripping them you know and Don's looking at me
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all puzzled and whatnot and I finally I looked at him I go what and he said I
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thought you were a blueg grasser I said I am yeah said but I kind
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of like this too this isn't too bad how did you uh how did you meet like Albert
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Lee and James Burton and all the hot band guys oh when I when I moved out to
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uh California I was 19 and uh I moved out there to play with Byron and Byron
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played on all those Emmy records right knew all those folks and I started getting seen by by a lot of those people
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the first gig I did when I played with Byron was at the Troubador in Los Angeles and we were opening for Guy
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Clark mhm and you know so I'm up there and we we we did till I gain control
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again in our show and it was one of the songs that Byron's band had recorded and I was singing it and and I'm in there
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playing and guys in there and all of the you know everybody Emmy and Rodney and all these people were there to see guy
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and I got done with our set and Rodney came to my dressing room he goes who are you what's your we're going to be
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friends and he said cuz you already sing my song better than me well I don't know about that but that's how we met and
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became friends and yeah and and he invited me when he left Emmy and started
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the his original band he asked me to come play with him and I I I wanted to
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cuz it was such a high level of musicianship that would have been great
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but pure prair League had just changed to another record company and was getting a fresh shot at something and I
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said I I think I want to give this one more shot before I bail on it and wound
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up having a hit with Let me love you tonight and a couple other songs and uh and then another year passed and uh we
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were going to have our first kid Janice and I uh in she born in uh May of
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82 and uh I decided to get off the road cuz those guys toured 250 days a year
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shows wow killed it you know and and I said I can't be gone that much with a new kid coming and so I quit and I
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called Rodney I said hey out if you're if you're up for it I'm I'm around if you need somebody and we started doing
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that and and play with him and Roseanne and uh a great stretch of life you know
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killer band and I'll never forget the first rehearsal and once again it was
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always my singing that kind of led the way for me and Roseanne reluctantly
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hired me mhm and Rodney said no he can do it you know and so I'm replacing
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Albert in the band and Albert and I played a bunch together when I was with Byron the clubs and all that and it was
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one of my dearest friends and I didn't really get to know James until later but
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um all I have to say is um when we were doing the first
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rehearsal Larry London's playing drums Em's playing bass so it's heavyweight heavyweight everywhere you look and we
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played the intro of the first song song called Raining and I have the intro
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and I started playing the intro and they kicked in and I said oh my God I gotta play the best I've ever played right now
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you know and it was like just so intimidating and I got through that song
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and then she called my baby thinks he's a train which is all the chicken pick and Albert stuff and and we finished the
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second one and I killed the first one and killed the second one and she came over to me she goes I think I owe you an
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apology and I said for what she goes I didn't think you could do this like that
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she said in fact the first song I thought you got [Laughter]
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lucky so it was a it was a great chair you know to to sit in and be you
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know it it it's very fan friendly you get to play a lot
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of the solos and it's a it's a pretty big cool gig and I remember once we played and Michael Nees smth was going
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to do a video I think for Rose and and he was at the show and and he came back
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and he goes man you just killed me the way you play blah blah blah it was very complimentary I said well thanks I said
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I full confession I said I was maybe one of the biggest monkey fans that ever lived I said I I watch the TV show every
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weekend he said I even joined the fan club and wrote you a letter said I wanted to be in the banding well after
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hearing you play I wish we'd have hired you
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so I could have been a monkey could have been a monkey little bit of luck from listening to your playing it's
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it's a it's at least obvious to me that Albert Lee's an influence on oh God the biggest yeah so when when did you first
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hear him and meet him um when I first heard him I think might have been luxury
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liner yeah you know one of Emy records in 767 whenever that came out and the
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reason I was drawn to it you know I'd heard James play on on on Haggard records and and different things
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um but with my Bluegrass playing flatpicking open strings all those kinds
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of things it all felt like it was related right you know and I said this makes sense to me and I I understand
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like I Can Hear jazz I understand how it feels but I don't I don't understand um
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the theory of it to too well but but this this really spoke to me and I I
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went out and I bought a Telecaster well that's what I was you know because it was like I because that that guitar
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that's that's your that's your first Telecaster right yeah and your first Telecaster is a Black Guard so I was I
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was thinking there had to have been you know an Albert or someone influence you to where it's like cuz he was playing a
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Black Guard yeah and you decided you had to have a Black Guard like Albert I mean that that sound was it was so infectious
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you know and not not different from jang's you know just tell's a Telly and they they have the the distinct sound
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and um it had a lot of it had just kind of had everything I wanted to try to to
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learn to do and my favorite story about my Telly playing is Hank DeVito The Great steel player I played with em and
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Rodney and all of us forever and ever um he picked up my white Telly one time and
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said can I play your guitar and I said yeah man so he picks it up and he starts yanking on it B you know taking the neck
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and the looking for the he goes where's the pull string yeah said doesn't have one he goes yeah it does I hear it every
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night and I didn't know there was such a thing right right so so I you know I
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figured out you know bending is critical to me how long you take how the pitch of
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it the intonation of it all and I learned to do it without a pull string
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and it sounds kind of close you know it's it's very close and that's one of the things that's unique about your
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playing is that you heard Clarence and the other pull string guys and when when
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you bend a lot of times you bend in the same way that the pull string kind of sounds and so that's why people would
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think that you had a b Bender cuz it was it's only I'm only doing it because of how I heard it right you know I never
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got to see it per se and I didn't know they had a a a Contraption on their
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instrument that did it like a steel guitar you know and I just I love the steel guitar so much in 1975 I got the
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band I was in called the Bluegrass Alliance came to Nashville and made a record and Buddy Emmons played on it mhm
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and that lit a fire in me like no fire has ever been lit and I went and bought a steel guitar and and I've always loved
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the instrument and and it reminds me a lot of of a voice a human voice of what
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it can do and and so I was a frustrated steel player for a little bit and uh we
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called it a mercy selling when I finally got rid of it but yeah I was I was always trying to
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emulate what what the pedal did and my fingers would do it in the same Cadence and the same kind of rhythm of it you
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know you can see he guys Bend strings and some of them been too fast some of them been too slow some of them been
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past the pitch and you know and for me every Bend had to be Soulful it had to
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be just the right grease all that stuff is the Nuance of all this stuff is
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what's interesting to me you know yeah and not how much you can play but how
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how how moving you can play with as as sometimes as little as possible there's times to blaze and and it's it's
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warranted and it's what you're supposed to do but there's other times that you're not I tell this story all the
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time I got some producer that said to me after I played something he goes that was great that was impressive he goes
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play me half of what you know play me half of what you know and yeah once again that's kind of how I I go through
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everything I I try to I say I try to say the most with the least yeah you know
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there's uh did you ever like sit down with Albert and and try to get him to show you anything not really you know
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there's a there there was probably a time where I I might have
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felt like he didn't like me because I played a good bit like him mhm and I
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hope he took it as flattery cuz that's all it was you know and it was just so good why wouldn't you want to learn that
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yeah you know and I don't I don't I play like him a little bit but I
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don't really play like him no no you don't there's a there's a bounce in a dance and a thing that Albert plays with
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that's better than anybody I've ever heard he's playing swings it just dances like a like Sammy Davis Jr you know it's
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a it just it's bouncy it's fun and it's and getting to we went to we went to
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Australia together I don't remember when in the 80s and I went over and just him
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and I and we picked up a band over there and took two telecasters and played two Acoustics and we just had the best time
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you know I was never I would I wouldn't say I was intimidated but I was I wasn't afraid to
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just to play because I've never you too many people they just look at guitar
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playing it like it's a shootout and it's a contest and it's yeah it couldn't be more
28:58
wrong you know I don't think the guitar players really feel that way some do you can tell who's who's trying to bury you
29:04
right you know and who's friendly uh-huh we all get we all get our day in the Sun
29:10
and we all get used up and then cast aside you know I don't care if you're a record producer you're a songwriter you're musician you're an artist it it
29:17
just I always tell Young Artists I said men have a good time I said they quit playing Elvis and they're going to quit
29:22
playing you that's right absolutely and you just got to know it's coming you
29:27
know coming and it's okay yeah it's the way it's supposed to be you're you're kind of a Telecaster rig it seems like
29:33
you had that that 53 Telly and you had a twin with jbl's and that was kind of two
29:39
twins two twins with jbls cuz that was kind of the rig was you were supposed to have a twin with
29:44
JBL speakers but it was interesting because I would as bright as that could be I would
29:51
always roll the tone pot about halfway back on the tter and then your amp could be brighter so it wasn't as sizzly is
29:58
the top end of that tone pickup and you've talked about learning that trick from Roy Nichols so did did you ask him
30:04
that I me I I might have just heard it I I don't remember okay you know so did you ever meet Roy I don't know yeah okay
30:11
I can't remember yeah it's hard to remember things yeah it really is I'm 67
30:16
and I'll and I'll I'll think of somebody and I go what's their name what's their name and it's it's getting worse and
30:22
worse bizar get I get it but you know maybe these maybe I just heard him say it or watch say it cuz I learned it from
30:30
from you and Guitar Player magazine like in the '90s that you know cuz it was like I always thought well you just keep
30:35
the the the the knobs turned all the way up on the guitar and you know you know but I had never thought about using the tone control on a Telly and it was like
30:42
that's such a great uh it's not a trick but I mean just to I think it's like it just it really you just turn it down a
30:48
little bit and it just really tames it still sounds twangy and good they're I think a Telecaster is way too bright
30:54
yeah you know most of the time but that's what's so cool about my white guitar is it doesn't have it's not that
31:02
crispy crispy bite your head off kind of kind of tone you know when did you start
31:07
using a compressor pedal as part of your rig oh the whole time yeah you know and I use it
31:13
more I use it more for a gain than I do to squeeze the sound okay and I I don't
31:21
the the sustain of the a compression I I don't turn up very much yeah but I use
31:28
whatever my volume is all the way up and I use the compressor and use the gain what it does it it evens it evens the
31:35
sound out for me in my ears and uh that along with get rolling the tone
31:43
back a little bit and and whatnot it it it kind of warms it and I use it as a
31:50
little bit as a boost yeah you know to some degree but I'm not a p i don't know much about petals yeah I just dial them
31:56
until they sound good me is about all I know how to do how did how did you learn about the compressor pedals I mean who did you see or or did you just man the
32:04
first you remember I think it was was it ianz it had a multi effects yeah unit
32:09
and it had a compressor it had a delay might have had a distortion and something else I don't remember what but
32:15
you could just step on each had knobs on it had the yeah was like I think I still have it somewhere but um I just liked
32:24
you know I'm not crazy about compression on a humbucker yeah you know but I I sure like it for the just a little bit
32:32
there's a I can't remember the name now of the pedal that um Buzzy feon
32:39
turned me on to and it's a it's a green compressor pedal like a dang I wish I
32:46
could remember the name of it but it really does a beautiful thing because it really it takes the sound and it blooms
32:53
is that that the little green one I don't know is it what you're using now yeah you could tell me called like a
33:00
gatron or something like that it's some some strange it's a little green you don't
33:05
find yeah yeah but you used a like a boss compressor for a long time but that
33:10
I always found that one sucked the sound up a little bit too much for me yeah and
33:16
this one doesn't it doesn't squeeze it as hard yeah does that make any sense
33:21
yes absolutely sounds a little Randy sound a little Randy know what you
33:28
said yes oh go now there come the
33:35
comments oh so you're the 80s is kind of
33:41
an interesting you Era for you because it's like you were trying you you you had a solo career you're on
33:47
RCA uh quick aside uh recently Mary Martin passed away and and she did she
33:54
manage you at one point yeah when I first signed with RCA yeah so uh Rodney
34:00
posted something on social media where he he mentioned that both both you and and he were managed by Mary and he said
34:07
the term and I'm hoping you can explain this he said that both of y'all were
34:14
unmanageable of course those are Rodney's words but do you have any idea what he meant by being unmanageable I
34:21
think we're both a couple of Knuckleheads but um we're so I don't
34:26
know we we're tight you know me we're yeah
34:33
and I don't know I I don't my the guy I work with now Larry
34:39
Fitzgerald we've been he's who I found after Mary decided she couldn't I I couldn't afford I couldn't make Mary
34:46
enough money to survive yeah that's why she took a job at RCA and the anr department there and she had to and so I
34:53
found Larry and we've been 40 years on a handshake and he he he says the same
34:58
thing he said you kind of manage me more than I manage you I don't know if that might mean the same thing but I don't
35:05
I'm not I don't need a lot of codling and I don't need you know it's just pretty and take care of myself but
35:12
managers are pretty pretty darn important though they are they're critical how connected they are and the
35:18
things they can make happen for you yeah and it's you you need nobody nobody can
35:23
do this on their own you know you need you need a tribe to cheer you on help
35:28
you out and connect the dots and Keep the Wolves Away and I've had man I've
35:33
been so lucky same business manager just passed away last year Chuck flood Larry for 40 years same lawyer of John
35:42
frankenheimer and his firm Lin L I've had the same same folks but my whole
35:47
career never changed anything I'm so lucky that's amazing
35:52
yeah on Rodney um you you played the solo on stars on the water that's a
35:59
that's a great solo Oh thanks and and also the fact that it's it's Hank and Albert you know playing that opening run
36:06
you know the the you know the kind of the yeah the kind of Boogie line and uh
36:11
how did you end up getting to play the solo when question I don't know no offense n taken I thought the same
36:19
thing what are you nuts um you know it was that chair it
36:25
took a while and even you you know you got when you had Albert you had Richard Bennett you had Stuart Smith you had all
36:32
these just world class really great recording kind of guitar players yeah
36:39
you know knew parts and knew knew really how to how to make your part count and
36:45
mean something you know that's a great tribute to Richard Bennett who played on a lot of those records back then too he
36:52
didn't want to play solos when I started playing with Rodney's band Richard was in the band he goes you play the solos I
36:59
like to play Rhythm yeah okay and once again I'm I'm
37:06
um it was it was a while before I think Rodney trusted me to play some solo
37:13
stuff but even then it's been minimal you know over the years and and that's
37:19
okay you know so and there was also uh Foster and
37:26
Lloyd had you play on you know cut of theirs you know what do you want from me this time that was a fun snaky you know
37:31
Telecaster solo on there and and then you finally get your uh your MCA you
37:38
know record deal and you get with Tony Brown yeah and he he starts uh you know
37:43
and the Machine starts working in your favor right but I I also I I don't know if I was wise enough
37:51
but that's the right term but I knew that I didn't need to go show the world
37:58
that I could play the guitar yeah you know I'm going to let you discover that you know we talked earlier about two
38:04
twins in my telecaster and yeah I showed up at a TV show in 1983 called new
38:09
country where you went and played your your record and the songs on your record and Stage maner came looked me up and
38:16
down he looked at my tell goes is that a prop yeah I said well you'll find out and and and this is going down the
38:24
rabbit hole but you you had this funny sticker on your Telly at that point was like behind the what was the it was a
38:29
backstage pass from playing with rose I it I love what it said said I can go
38:34
anywhere I want what it said on the backstage that's why you put it on there on your guitar yeah exactly you just had
38:41
it on there for a while I took it off fell off I don't remember why but and also you had Rusty young playing in your
38:47
band for a while the late ' 80s yeah yeah and he was you know he was fun because he he didn't he didn't I
38:55
wouldn't say he didn't treat the instrument with the reverence Nashville pedal steel players do that's the wrong
39:00
way to say it but he was more adventurous he was willing to hit a stomp box and turn it over and and and
39:07
be Rob Robert Randolph before Robert was born you know doing the fuzz steel yeah and just taking the instrument places
39:13
that traditionally it never would go you know yeah that's why somebody like Paul Franklin Tommy White these guys they're
39:21
they're brilliant and they can they can do so much more than just what everybody expected the steel guitar to do you know
39:27
there was there was times in country music's history where it the the
39:33
instrument fell out of favor you know in fact when I recorded when I call your name Paul played on that a lot of people
39:39
thought it might have been John huy but it was Paul Franklin and we cut the track cut the
39:44
song and Paul played the back half of that solo and it was it was slightly
39:50
pedestrian you know because in 1989 nobody was using the steel guitar MH
39:56
like that you know right and I called him I said hey man would you mind coming back and replaying the solo on This
40:02
Waltz we did and he said well I like what I played and he was kind of pissed I said well I I do too but I said I I
40:09
really want to see if I can get the get you to play the instrument like how we used to you know where it cries and it
40:16
whines all the stuff nobody really wants anymore you know he was okay and he begrudgingly came down and then it
40:23
became a big hit and a kind of a one of those steel solos that it's thought of like together again and you know lost in
40:31
the feeling and some of those kinds of iconic steel solos and he pulled me aside and he said I need to say thank
40:36
you for getting me to replay that solo and just all I that to say is you
40:43
just never know when it's going to flip and turn and I didn't have any reason to
40:48
believe that a 4 and a half minute Waltz would change my life yeah but it did and
40:54
and I just didn't I didn't have to make those records and shove my guitar down everybody's throat cuz it wasn't wasn't
41:01
how it worked you've always had other guitar players on your on your records playing
41:06
you know with you and supporting you yet you've always played the solos um let's talk about steuart Smith
41:13
so whose idea was it to have Stuart play on your records was it yours or Tony's
41:18
uh probably both of us we always go get together and cast cast a band who we thought would be right for the songs
41:25
that we had and the kind of record you know my s have always been a bit chameleon is and that they they'd have
41:30
something really traditional on them but also something contemporary and something that rocks something that might sit in the Soulful world and and
41:38
so you had to cast players that could go different directions you know and do
41:43
many things and and it was just so how about hey we you know we know of steuart
41:50
from Rod's records let's see if steuart will come down and play it was fun you know had Dean Parks come from California
41:56
and play yeah records you you've had Richard Ben Fred T he on when I call
42:03
your name and I just you know I I love other I I've always loved other people's
42:10
playing way more than mine yeah you know and it I'm not a control freak I don't
42:16
have to have the attention I don't have to be the loud you know all that stuff is I just love the camaraderie of it all
42:23
and seeing what turns up when you were cutting those records with
42:29
with Tony Brown were were you only singing when the Rhythm tracks were going down or
42:35
were you singing and playing no I always played cuz I I always felt like the field that I play with would kind of
42:44
direct everybody where to go yeah you know and and feel is everything to me
42:50
and you know I love you remember I made a record not long ago in Steve Jordan
42:58
um was going to play drums and and because of him and Willie weeks were going to play together as as a section I
43:04
thought maybe I'll let them lead where we go and I won't play and Steve says I
43:10
came all this way play with one of my favorite guitar players you're not going to play I ain't GNA play if you don't play Diana crawl I was do to do a jazz
43:18
duet with her and she says if you don't play I don't want to play yeah I said well I can't she goes that's that's kind
43:24
of refreshing that you don't know all those big all those Chang in in between stuff
43:30
whatever she goes just it'll be it'll be just like you and and that's what you learn after time you know I don't want
43:37
to hear anybody but Willie play guitar on Willie records oh yeah Willie n yeah
43:42
and and and I heard Chris Teton say you know he said yeah those guys play better than me but I play right I play just
43:49
right for what I do that's right you know and it's it's it's part of it you
43:54
know it's the way I I've I've equate the way I play is
44:00
similar to the way that I sing when I'm getting ready to play something in my head I go how would I sing this you know
44:06
and that's what points me and when I'm when I'm singing I go how would I play this and that's one of the things that's
44:12
very identifiable about your guitar playing is that you stop singing with your voice and you sing with the guitar
44:18
yeah it's like you always play solos that are you know they might have riffs but they're melodic they're not just a
44:25
bunch of it's not a barrage of notes being thrown at you and that's the thing they're hummable they're you know
44:30
singable solos the melody is in there yeah somewhere I mean that's a great old check quote he's doing a session the
44:36
guitar player I don't really know what to play The Melody usually works Melody usually works yeah it's all true yeah
44:44
and so when you were tracking those songs would you play acoustic or electric to play Rhythm I mean okay and
44:50
you would just deal with any kind of bleed through or or you replace it or whatever sure yeah like you know you
44:55
can't I couldn't you you know we couldn't have done Liza Jane if I didn't play that Groove and get that swampy
45:01
thing going and um I don't know it's it's all fixed that's the beauty of it
45:08
it's all fixable so yeah you know just make sure you cut out on the bleed and this and that and yeah make it work did
45:15
you talk about Stewart's kind of contributions to your to your records
45:20
God it's been so many years ago but um just beautifully iconic Parts like I
45:26
still believe in you I always think that's that's brilliant guitar playing with what John played on on the
45:32
keyboards and so identifiable and and once again you're you're not you're not
45:38
looking for something to blow your skirt up you're looking for something to serve the song and and that's what what great
45:45
musicians do they listen to each other yeah what you play affects what I play and what I play affects what you play
45:51
and kind of it's a nice dance when it goes the right way one of the few uh
45:58
albums where you did more of uh you you mimicked a little bit was the
46:03
Bakersfield album in it you and it's and not really on the mer Cuts but more so
46:09
on the butt Cuts you you kind of had you're you kind of moved your voice more in the Buck Owens Direction I did yeah
46:18
and and and purposely you know and it was um it was such a fun record to make
46:24
with Paul because adored both of those artists in the music so much probably
46:29
shaped me as much as any um and we picked songs that you know so often
46:35
those records never really got to let the musicians shine yeah they get to play a
46:41
turnaround an intro and that was about it you know two and a half minute song you didn't have time to hear the guy go
46:48
Whittle away and play a solo reverse and then a chorus and whatever and and so we
46:53
picked things that were more suited towards the
46:59
musicianship than me being the singer I sang the songs but we we chose songs to
47:06
where really his steel plane and my Telly plane would be kind of the focal
47:11
point I think I only play I played Strat on one song on that uh holding things together record yeah you know and bent
47:19
some strings in a different way and all that but um holding things together I
47:25
mean that's a song that is I mean you couldn't go wrong with with any of them you picked yeah but you know there were
47:32
a few of those that I've been singing in my whole life yeah you know that was you know you sit in with a bar band and go
47:37
hey let's play holding things together yeah you together again or some of those things were the ones that you know I
47:43
can't be myself pretty obscure meral track that was written by Steve Young I think and I always Sayang it wherever I
47:52
went in a club you know it was easy and everybody could follow along and yeah it was great great fun your guitar playing
47:58
on that album is really interesting because you you kind of you you tip your
48:03
hat to Burton and Don Rich and stuff but you a lot of the cuts you're playing with your fingers instead of a pick and
48:10
you kind of you kind of did kind of a bit of a departure yeah you know I I I
48:16
think I I just like I said I just I play what what's in my heart and I hate
48:22
records that are note fornote right rapes of of other records that's boring
48:28
to me the parts were great yeah I I loved it I loved the the spin that you took on it because it was like how do
48:35
you do those and and you know because Burton and those and Roy Nichols and all those guys have done such identifiable
48:41
things and when you take when you put a little twist to it it makes it it makes it interesting instead of just like well
48:47
he just mimicked what James did yeah I never liked you know note fornote representations of old records that
48:54
didn't that didn't that wasn't that didn't seem very creative cretive yeah you know and and then you and then you
49:00
run into the the people that are going to say well I like the I like the old one better I'm not trying to say I'm
49:06
better than either of those guys or any of those guitar players I just play like I play and we did it we do this because
49:14
we love that music not because we think we can do better versions yeah but people like to listen to things and and
49:22
and then well it's not as good as blah blah blah I like that better than the original
49:27
you get that sometimes but um the whole point is of emulating something you love
49:33
is the fact that you love it yeah you know did did you want to be one of the
49:40
guitar players in the hot band sure I was on standby for a long time for Frank
49:47
cuz Frank would Frank reard would would occasionally threaten to quit yeah and Emmy would call say hey Frank's
49:52
threatening to quit again are you free go yeah and he never quit never never went where it worked you know yeah and
50:00
uh so I I uh I never got to I played with Emmy in the'80s with a uh the angel
50:06
band Angel Band thing with Carl Jackson and emry and that was fun you know but
50:11
never got to play all those songs with the Eagles
50:16
how long have you been 10 years with them eight this my eth year okay one of the interesting things about you know is
50:24
that again you're back to being a sid man and and you're mainly there for your singing I mean and and you're playing
50:31
rhythm guitar you really don't play yeah you know it's had an impact on
50:37
my guitar playing you know I'm not I'm not as as fluid as I I probably usually
50:43
was uh and I found that out two years ago I went out and did about 35 shows in
50:48
the Summer where we weren't working and I had the hardest time keeping up you know and it was really a mind Bender for
50:55
me was funny I had refretted my my white tally went to Joe and said hey I want to
51:00
try to wean myself off these big Frets so we put a smaller fret in okay and I went out and started playing I'm going
51:06
I'm sucking bad you know this is horrible and I went I said is it because
51:12
of the smaller Frets or just because I suck it was just because I sucked so I
51:17
went back to Joe said will you please put the big Frets back in I'm having a a mind meled down you know why why did you
51:23
feel necessary to go to little Frets I don't know yeah you know I have no idea just
51:30
experiment maybe may maybe make it a little easier but it made it a whole lot harder yeah the bigger Frets are easier
51:35
to play on yeah and he put the big ones back in and I was still struggling a little bit I go okay it's just me yeah
51:42
just got to keep got to keep playing I got to practice this is my best this got to be my close to my best friend the the
51:49
old I guess the old joke if the house is on fire is this the one this would be one I'd grab first and what would be the
51:54
second one uh I've got a mark that I bought when I was 18 oh the one with your kind of college money you're
52:00
saving all the money I spent everything I had to get it and was broke yeah but
52:06
there's a few I mean I don't know there's a bunch of senent one of those Martins over there was chats was pretty
52:12
sentimental his wife gave to me after he passed yeah that it's funny you know
52:18
people will make a snide comment about well why do you need so many if you knew some of the stories behind some of these
52:25
guitars you wouldn't I don't know that you'd say that but yeah because you know
52:30
these these and every every guitar is different I mean even though you have a bunch of black guards nothing none of
52:36
them hang with this one this is my favorite for me yeah just for me but they're they're all different and yeah
52:42
and that's the thing that when you go when you go down the rabbit hole it's it's just crazy because it's like the
52:48
more you get into it the more you find out that they they sound and feel and react different exactly yeah so this
52:54
guitar it has a second string tree when did you add that or was of course Joe Joe would get Joe would get mad if I
53:01
said he did it yeah but I think I I don't know if Joe did this or not but I've always had that second string tree
53:06
yeah and for the the reason being we argue about this me and Joe all the time yeah I said I understand that it only
53:13
has an impact when I play open strings yeah but I play a lot of open strings you know all the time so with that
53:20
little bit of tension on the nut that has it's not as flappy right
53:27
you know and all that cuz there's no angle on it and you get better downward
53:32
pressure on the on the G and D string that's and then after you after you fret it it doesn't matter anymore I get that
53:38
but for those open strings for playing you know those kinds of things
53:45
it's yeah that'll hang with you a little better yeah have you ever done any uh you know
53:51
modifications that you regret on guitars like something really heinous
53:57
I not too bad i' I've been pretty good with them some some people have done
54:02
some things that I wish they hadn't have yeah um but this one I've never done
54:07
anything to except replace that pickup and half a dozen fret jobs probably over the years have the have the pickups ever
54:14
been rewound like the bridge pickup no no really uh-uh that's amazing that's
54:19
death sentence it's all over we have to do that I
54:25
quit d yeah but I guess they'll you know they'll eventually kind of wear out and
54:30
do what they do well the biggest thing you watch out for is if when it starts getting a bunch of rust on the low E
54:35
string on that pole that's when you know that there's rust going down in there gotta that's the that's what I've
54:41
learned from U rewinders and stuff like that that's when they start really you know got to watch out for that now but
54:48
this one I I I got for 1978 I still have the receipt and I remember the day two
54:54
guys Bob Woods another guy named Larry Briggs Larry's a vintage instrument dealer and Bob had an old cool music
55:02
store in Dell City Oklahoma where I'm from I'm not from Del City but in close
55:07
anyway they traded about 20 guitars for 20 guitars and I wanted a Telecaster Y and this one went by in the trade and
55:14
Bob Woods had picked it up the guy that had the store I said hey Bob will you sell that Telecaster goes yeah sure I
55:20
said how much 450 see I'll do that and it might have been worth another 200
55:25
bucks then 250 might have been worth a little bit more and so I paid him for it
55:30
every time I saw him from then on until he died he he would look at me he goes God dang you got to me on that
55:37
Telecaster I said Bob I said that guitar saved my butt made me famous and he's
55:42
made thousands of deals where he made good money on it it's just fun to complain sometimes
55:49
exactly but for some reason you know I mean all the Finish is gone and it was
55:54
that way when I got it yeah you you know I mean I'm sure I've worn a good bit of wood off of it over the years but the um
56:02
I don't I can't find any sand marks on there or anything that looks like somebody took it off or got reshaped or
56:08
anything I just think it's it's just has the best the best neck profile of any
56:14
Telly I've ever had I was the color you know always is really interesting on
56:19
this and uh Nacho the guy that wrote the pinecaster book he uh I asked him I said
56:26
what what do you think about that color he said I don't know I mean they could have done something at the time he said or it could have gone back for a refin
56:32
you know a couple years later but what I heard was they they did most they did a lot of the lap steals yeah in that color
56:38
that's right in the white yeah and that every now and then they do a white one and then I've got this one not too long
56:45
ago from Norms out in La uh who I knew when I lived out there and bought a
56:50
bunch of guitars from him over the years but that was Roy Buchanan's backup to Nancy yeah and came up for sale and I
56:57
said man to have a chance to have another white one would be pretty cool I never I don't remember ever seeing
57:04
hardly any white ones yeah you know cuz most of them were the butterscotch color and then yeah yeah so this is a really
57:14
cool guitar cuz this was this was jabo's guitar that he played with Little Jimmy Dickens and again this is another thing
57:20
I learned from Nacho was that the finish on these broadcasters is really really
57:26
brittle and you have another one where it's really coming off bad it was yeah most of it had come off even when I
57:32
bought it yeah and this this is one of those guitars that they sold it to you and of course they wanted you to play it
57:37
on the Opera yeah The Story Goes they found out that I have that I played a
57:42
guitar like that and they contacted me and said we see you play a guitar like our relative Jabo who played with Jimmy
57:48
when we first came to the oery would you be interested in his guitar and I said it's been under the bed for 60 years and
57:54
I said well sure so they came to the opery and I bought it and
58:00
um they said um said our dream is to see it played on the oery one more time yeah
58:07
you know and Jabo died probably back in 51 or two oh yeah he died in the early 50s yeah and uh so I went to Jimmy I
58:15
said hey little Jimmy can I can I play with you tonight he said how come and I said well I just bought jabo's old
58:21
guitar and he said I want that guitar and I said well
58:27
I just I paid this much for it and he goes I don't want it that
58:34
bad I hear little Jimmy saying that yeah I don't want that so I went out played
58:40
it played it with him and then family's over boohoo in a great moment and all that and I took it home with me and then
58:47
fast forward a few years later and Jimmy passed away and um
58:53
so I had an idea I said I'm going to take jabo's guitar and play it at Jimmy's funeral sing go rest high yeah
59:00
play it on that guitar and I told the story of the instrument you know to the to the people and and I said this guitar
59:07
was the guitar that brought Jimmy here and I think it's only right that it should be the guitar that takes him out
59:13
of here yeah it's just beautiful thing beautiful moment everybody's boohoo and and yeah it's beautiful and I get home
59:21
from the funeral the phone rings and it's Haggard Merl Haggard is Merl said
59:27
yes sir he said what I just watched you do that was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen what you did for that man
59:33
was so beautiful wow and he said I want that
59:40
guitar I said you can't have it either he said I can't quit crying he
59:46
said I don't cry yeah I do not cry and I can't quit crying that was beautiful and
59:51
was a neat moment you know for Circle and jao wasn't important guitar player
59:57
because he he was uh him and spider right played twin guitars and and Grady
1:00:02
Martin and and apparently Jabo was uh you know kind of helped Grady out and
1:00:07
and they got going and this is probably the first broadcaster Telecaster was played on the Opera it would have to
1:00:14
have been I mean I know the serial numbers are not sequential but that's 0048 yeah so it's got be it's got to be
1:00:21
early early early yeah that's a really
1:00:26
really cool guitar this this is one that you've been
1:00:33
identified with a lot that forever you played this in in Pure Prairie League you played it yeah and you got this from
1:00:40
your your buddy my best Benny yeah Benny Garcia was my childhood first music friend and we played in all of our first
1:00:47
bands together and everything and even when he had it I bought this guitar I
1:00:53
only had one Fender and I knew I wanted to maybe get a strat and he had that and had been refinished back then and we
1:00:59
made a deal that uh he'd sell it to me for $200 and a pair of boots a pair of
1:01:04
rough out boots so I bought him some boots gave him 200 bucks and got that Strat and I played it the whole time you
1:01:11
know I played it my whole life and I've put the emgs in there and and changed the to one of those uh uh Bridges two te
1:01:20
was the name of the company that put those bridges in there Mike Hansen was a good it was a good it made a lot of
1:01:26
sense it made the guitar sustain a little more and yeah do some interesting things and the fact it had been
1:01:31
refinished it didn't mind routing out the body a little bit yeah um and then I
1:01:37
put the old pickups back in it and then found my way back to I like having that sweet quiet EMG sound sometimes for
1:01:44
certain things and they have kind of a presence like a high-end thing that's that's really that kind of cuts through without being harsh it's kind of and it
1:01:52
was great because those emgs with with this and I'd play whatever amps I was using I didn't have
1:01:58
to readjust tone all the time on the amps it would take whichever one well
1:02:05
and so yeah Benny passed away three or four years ago and I was told him I said I'd say I'm going to sell you that
1:02:11
guitar back someday for $200 pair of boots never got to yeah I I had the
1:02:17
pleasure of meeting Benny a number of years ago you know out on the road and uh what a what a a fabulous guy and the
1:02:24
fact that you had uh a childhood friend that was with you my whole career yeah
1:02:30
and from the late 80s on so for I guess that would be kind of helping kind of
1:02:36
grounding you having someone having a friend that knew you pre Fame and and
1:02:42
who was always there to kind of you know when you when you when you got the big head they were there to kind of let yeah
1:02:48
he kept me he kept me in line but what was cool was when I called him to see if he'd do it you know I said hey man would
1:02:55
you considered coming out and being a my guitar tech and he goes what's a guitar tech yeah he's a good player himself you
1:03:01
know I said I don't really know but we'll figure it out it just be fun to have you with me on this run and and he
1:03:08
did and and it was awesome I remember years ago I from recommendation from my
1:03:14
manager I hired a guitar player to be my second guitar player for a tour and and
1:03:19
the first rehearsal um I knew right away it was the wrong thing to do and I called my
1:03:26
manager Larry I said hey man this isn't GNA work out and and he he said don't tell me that he said I promised him to
1:03:32
gig I said I know but look it's just that it's not a good fit and yeah stylistically great guy but you know
1:03:38
whatever and said okay so he called the guy and and he said hey man I'm sorry
1:03:44
but the the gig with Vince isn't going to work out he goes yeah no kidding he said what do you mean he goes hell I
1:03:50
couldn't play as good as his guitar tech said I knew I didn't have a shot
1:03:57
well I guess that kind of made he was expecting the hammer to come down and Benny's father was a world class jazz
1:04:04
guitar player played with Charlie Christian when they were young and both from Oklahoma and uh Benny's dad just
1:04:11
didn't want to travel and and live that life he wanted to stay home play clubs
1:04:17
but he would have been as big a giant as a jazz guitarist as anybody that ever
1:04:22
lived a few clips of him you know playing on on that you can find he played with Wills a little bit and all
1:04:28
those guys it was it was magical to hear him play you know we were too dumb we were
1:04:34
up playing a rock and roll tell us one Benny story oh my
1:04:41
God like
1:04:46
there's I can't tell several of them he did we lost him in Europe once and he
1:04:54
Benny had been known he'd been known to have a good time once in a while and and
1:04:59
U we were in Amsterdam I think and it's time gig was over and we're going to
1:05:05
leave in two or three hours bus call whatever and there's no Benny you know and there's no cell phones back then and
1:05:12
we didn't what do we do well we leave him so we left him and went to the next
1:05:20
gig and somehow in hell he managed to find his way to the next country and to the gig and boy Larry lit into him good
1:05:28
he said I don't care whose best friend you are said you ever do that again he said run you off but uh no he was God he
1:05:37
was beautiful I remember my favorite story Benny he he'd partake a little bit
1:05:42
and uh occasionally have have himself over served but um when his father passed he called
1:05:50
me up and said man my dad just died and I said oh man you know we I said let me
1:05:56
can I call you back in just a little bit I'm in the middle of something he said yeah so I called him back that night and
1:06:02
he was pretty buzzed and I talked to him for three hours we talked about everything you know we talked for about
1:06:08
three hours and the next day he wakes up he turns over to his wife and he says I
1:06:15
can't believe that son didn't call me back he he told me he's going to call me back somebody didn't even call me
1:06:20
back my dad died he didn't even call me back his wife said Benny he called you back you talked to it for three
1:06:28
hours I did Ben he was a
1:06:33
party he was the best you know it's it was interesting he was my he was my
1:06:39
first music friend yeah you know when I was sixth grade I think I had just gotten my red 335 and uh was sitting out
1:06:47
on the porch playing it through my super Reverb and he rode by on his bicycle and
1:06:52
he pulled up the driveway and he goes hey man so I play guitar too I said you do he goes yeah I live a couple miles
1:06:58
away so we should get together and we did got together and started in our first Garage Band yeah Larry on drums
1:07:05
Benny played bass and I played guitar we were a bad power [Laughter]
1:07:12
Trio low voltage yeah we went through it all
1:07:18
yeah let's have we got we're going to pull out a Gibson
1:07:25
just to be nice a gypson a gypson yes made in
1:07:31
China so you you talked about Larry Carlton earlier and one of the fun things is uh seeing you at the uh the
1:07:40
the Christmas shows that you and Amy do are are are a lot of fun partially because you get to see kind of a
1:07:46
different side of you and uh on some of the tunes like uh uh like you would do
1:07:52
this Christmas and you'd just go off playing the 330 and you playing in kind of a Larry Carlton kind of stylistic
1:07:59
thing and uh it's fun hearing you you know hearing you play the 335 so this is this your favorite one it is I mean my
1:08:06
red one is obviously my favorite but this is the best sounding and I was with Robin Ford when I found this and down
1:08:13
Carters and he started playing he goes I think this is the best 335 I've ever played wow that's pretty good pretty
1:08:19
healthy endorsement isy that helped push those were the two guys that you know just
1:08:26
knocked everybody out when they'd play together at the clubs in LA and I was kid and whatever and just love to hear
1:08:32
them play and did you hear Robin and Larry play together a lot yeah yeah they play some of the clubs out in
1:08:39
LA and the guy Mike Maguire that worked at Valley Arts he's the one that did all their setup work and fret jobs and
1:08:47
everything guitar wise for them and I started going to him and said make my guitar play like their you know and put
1:08:54
big Frets in and all this stuff what year is this 59 yeah you know it
1:09:01
uh this is really something you know it's not too big for a 59 a lot of 59s
1:09:07
are too big for yeah they got big necks on them at times [Music]
1:09:16
yeah but you know they just sustain they do all the things that Fender wants to
1:09:22
do but can't quite yeah it's a different beast and and then that's the thing it's
1:09:28
it's nice you know because you know when you when you play the the Telly when you play the
1:09:33
Strat when you play the 335 you know you get different parts of of you you get different parts of your INF yeah you
1:09:40
know and and that's what that's what I'm always doing I'm trying to I'm not trying to play this guitar on everything
1:09:46
yeah I'm trying to I'm just trying to play pick the right guitar for what I'm wanting to do yeah you know and and I'll
1:09:54
go through several of them just going you know how does this sit in the track how does this you know play well with
1:10:00
others you know so I don't know it's a it's such a fun
1:10:06
fun thing to chase it yeah you know tone and you played I've played for 60 years
1:10:11
and I'm still trying to sound better still trying to find a better stomp box still trying to find a better speaker
1:10:17
still trying to you know all this stuff still goes on well again going back to to gear you were kind of a Fender Twin
1:10:25
guy with with jbl's for a long time and then you started using the Rivera amps MH and that kind of got you away from
1:10:31
the jbl's and you started using a pedal board cuz I thought it was funny cuz on earlier performances you'd see your
1:10:37
pedals on top of your amp like you didn't have them in front of you you'd have your p and you you could see you turn around and you'd hit the pedal on
1:10:43
top of the twin this is pretty funny half the time I'd have to kick the twin to get it to
1:10:50
work put a boot on it you know to get tubes to reset whatever
1:10:55
and and then you uh you kind of yeah you've kind of morphed through through
1:11:01
the years and you've been using little Walters you used Fender deluxes for a while and and but then you you got on
1:11:06
the The Little Walter thing and you've you've been doing that for quite a while yeah I like those a lot cuz they it doesn't matter what you throw at them
1:11:12
you throw a strat a tally a 335 a Les ball yeah doesn't matter and it it it
1:11:18
it's they're so musical they just they take everything you throw at them pretty well and and that's you know what I'm
1:11:24
going to do I don't want four different sets of amps out there to play yeah through through during a show
1:11:30
and it just makes it simple and it works pretty good yeah PHS great guy what kind
1:11:36
of speakers do you like oh gosh I don't even know anymore yeah uh mostly
1:11:42
probably celestian yeah I think I'm not sure which ones what the numbers are on
1:11:48
the back or what color yeah yeah yeah I'm not a good I'm not that big of a gear guy you know just enough to to be
1:11:55
dangerous yeah but when it sounds right you leave it alone yeah yeah you know but no it's
1:12:02
uh I don't use jbls anymore yeah they ruin my back yeah make an amp carry a
1:12:10
twin through a club we kill him man yeah yeah all right we got you to get one of
1:12:15
your bursts out one of your bursts that sounds so a it's not a it's
1:12:22
horrible it's okay you do this for a I don't have a boat okay do you have a
1:12:28
private jet no I don't have a jet I don't have a home I don't have another car see it's okay to have a burst all
1:12:33
all I want is guitars yes so you're good you're [Applause]
1:12:39
good so this other burst is a 59 also thirst
1:12:47
thirst well th this is a great burst it's it's lightweight it plays great it sounds great it's less filling yeah yeah
1:12:55
there really you know there there really is a it's not
1:13:01
just hoodoo you know they're great and they sound great this is this is my
1:13:06
favorite Bridge pickup I've ever heard mhm on on on any guitar yeah I went to
1:13:12
Joe and I played this a little bit with the guys and I said I finally feel like I've got really legit rock and roll tone
1:13:19
well it's clear and fat I mean it's just it's unbelievable it's you know that's that's yeah it's a good fit for a Telly
1:13:26
player too cuz it's kind of like a big big tell in a
1:13:34
way sounds good where did this one come from from uh well strong guitars Dave
1:13:40
Davidson yeah yeah he's become a really good pal of mine and I try to go up there whenever we're in New York and we
1:13:47
we wound up spending a good bit of time in New York City and so I can go to see him whenever I
1:13:52
can and this is a 59 mhm yeah had a Bigsby or whatever couple bite marks but
1:13:59
yep but it's a good one you really is that's what I that's what I'm crazy
1:14:04
about is is that that pickup right there yeah well I was going to ask you to play
1:14:10
the solo off take your memory with you you play it on that or on the Telly or whatever you want to play I don't remember what I played it on I might
1:14:16
have played it on my red 335 really yeah yeah that I can't remember
1:14:39
was that a composed Solo or was that something that you came off off the okay
1:14:45
it has been a couple it's been more than three years ago so yeah I don't know I just kind of
1:14:54
[Music] take off and and and keep what I like
1:15:00
and fix what I don't just like everybody else you
1:15:05
know you know I think I'm probably emulating a more older style of
1:15:11
Nashville guitar playing than a Telecaster style kind of more of the Grady marketing kind of exactly cuz you
1:15:16
know Gibson was King yes here in Nashville for the longest time absolutely I think I've seen you do a
1:15:22
thing on on when you when you thought the tele showed up you know yeah well that you know that the Jabo guitar is
1:15:29
like kind of the the ground zero in that and then it's like it really it's not until years later that it really kind of
1:15:34
takes off as being popular it was more of a California thing exactly it was you know it buck
1:15:40
and Phil ball and all those cats were all playing Tellies and so yeah so this
1:15:45
this was kind of you you think you might have played it on the 335 originally maybe I can't remember yeah but it's a
1:15:52
great solo you know starts off with that kind of with the arpeg and you're outlining the chords really well it's a
1:15:57
really nice well thanks nice solo wish I could play it I never played
1:16:04
anymore steel player all
1:16:10
now I'm already lost
1:16:28
yeah just swingy yeah dances you know and I you know I learned a lot more about shuffles in the last 30 years than
1:16:35
I knew in 1990 yeah you know I loved them you know and we played them a lot Rodney we love to play in shuffles
1:16:42
together and I love being Don Rich and he'd sing and we'd do all those songs yeah like on diamonds and dirt yeah
1:16:48
uhhuh yeah but we did we did Above and Beyond on that record and buck said that's great but you could have changed
1:16:54
one notice it so not we we do I think I think Paul played the solo like Bramley
1:17:02
yeah even you know I can't remember but well it's a it's a great it's a great tune yeah it
1:17:07
is most of your solos are they are they more off the cuff or are they composed
1:17:13
or you know how do how do a lot of them come together they just evolve you know and what's interesting is I find that my
1:17:20
first impression has generally got some some validity to it you know and then I
1:17:27
refine it it may start and I'll play and play for 30 45 minutes go hey play me
1:17:32
play me the first thing I played let me you know kind of and I just think soloing is is no different than than the
1:17:41
writing of the song is to have a beginning a middle and an end and yeah you know you I don't I don't have any I
1:17:48
don't have a an idea in my head of what I think it
1:17:54
should be be you know I just start playing and it Finds Its Finds Its way to me you know most of your solos would
1:18:02
they be overdubbed I or or would you yeah so you would you would track the song and then would y'all have like an
1:18:09
overdub session later on where it's just you and the engineer and the producer or or would you have everyone there yeah
1:18:15
yeah everybody's gone so it won't waste time everyone's not smoking a cigarette yeah well you can't you can't afford to
1:18:22
to be doing overdubs while you got six seven guys payroll paying them session
1:18:28
fees and all that stuff you gotta you got to track while you where you got the guys there and then you sing and do the
1:18:34
overdubs later when you take your time and you're not making somebody else wait for you that's that's that's a lot of
1:18:40
tension when when you have to play and there's a bunch of people waiting but um
1:18:46
now that I do all my recording here it's just I take as long as I want I don't
1:18:51
have to be in a hurry and and sometimes it sometimes it comes sometimes it doesn't you know lay it down try it
1:18:58
again yeah another day try another day yeah what of your solos are you most proud
1:19:05
of I think elza Jane's fairly iconic for Telecaster absolutely kind of solos one
1:19:12
more last chance might be another one but um there's a solo on a record I did
1:19:19
some years ago um what was this song called
1:19:27
me and me and me and my girl you can hear a little you know tip of the hat to mark noler of course I mean I I didn't I
1:19:35
start playing with my fingers until I saw him doing it you know and he was doing [Music]
1:19:41
the yeah that's a cool Groove that Gro that grooves way deeper than
1:19:49
yeah swings more you know got more dance in it or something but yeah and I and
1:19:55
the the difference in sound I've been through this a many times but when you
1:20:01
play versus yeah it has more just the notes
1:20:08
just it balloons differently mhm yeah are are you willing to play a little bit of Liza Jane I don't know that I can
1:20:16
okay you can play it on the last B that's great find that
1:20:22
[Music] I don't know how it starts I just know it's in my head when the band's playing
1:20:28
it you got it was and it was it's composed but
1:20:33
it's also it had been edited okay you know you know i' take I would take a chunk out from another pass and another
1:20:40
chunk out from another pass and and and meld it together I didn't just play that right from start to finish I've learned
1:20:47
how to play it from start to finish right okay that makes yeah but that's I
1:20:53
think that's the way everybody does it seems like yeah just keep playing until you find something yeah and then put them together the the the bins on it are
1:21:01
really cool when you when you do the the B you cuz those are kind of like Clarence white kind of bendery kind of
1:21:07
licks cuz you're you're you're bending you know one note up to the same one that's being you know Fred and you you
1:21:13
you climb up the neck with that and it's a really snaky cool
1:21:19
[Music] sound yeah yeah and and it's iCal that
1:21:25
all those bends be in tune that's
1:21:30
right it's real easy to bend past that's right it's easy to not Bend to it yeah
1:21:35
you know I got a funny story B Bo and I are great friends and he's playing with me these shows at the Ryman but um he I
1:21:43
I like those dusenberg guitars but they're longer yes you know so I talked
1:21:49
to Nathan who runs the company in uh in the states and I said I said I have hard
1:21:54
time playing those guitars because the extra length I know it's a little bit longer but what I'm used to
1:22:03
bending a note I have to bend it further yes because it's longer and they made me
1:22:10
a guitar that is more of the regular scale length or whatever than they do
1:22:17
that that kind of brings up a kind of a the string question because it's the same thing with strings it's like when
1:22:23
you put really light gauge strings on a guitar you have to physically bend that string further for it to get up to the
1:22:29
the pitch and it's it's kind of a weird thing and one of the things I noticed was you always used tens you know on
1:22:36
your guitars and you didn't use the nines or even lighter or eights or anything like Albert and James and some
1:22:42
of the other guitar players used I tried once and I couldn't even play yeah you know one of one of those early gigs with
1:22:48
Albert we were playing in Australia and I tried to put eight or something on my guitar and I just what have you done you
1:22:55
know yeah it was a nightmare but but it it's it's also you know a bigger string
1:23:00
sounds fatter yeah you know yeah and I'll I'll I'll use different strings for
1:23:06
different you know guitars like I'll I'll take Italian 2 and a half step down
1:23:12
any guitar two and a half step down maybe one a whole step down and use 11s cuz then it compensates for for not
1:23:19
having as much tension yep you know and every guitar is different but every guitar likes a certain thing on it you
1:23:26
know so as you've gotten older have you had to lower any of your songs like if you
1:23:34
had no wow that's remarkable it is remarkable some people's voices hang in
1:23:40
there and stay in there forever like whenever you come around I cut in B I do it in C now yeah it's a half step higher
1:23:47
yeah which is stupid but I like playing the guitar in C better than a do in B yeah and I like playing this chord
1:23:54
better than this chord and uh so some some of the stuff I'll change keys on a
1:24:01
song just because of how it will flow with the brightness set and when I'm
1:24:07
doing a set it's like it's like uh sequencing a record yeah you know key the way certain songs follow other songs
1:24:15
is critical because of the key they're in too you know I think about all that nerd stuff you know yeah and you've and
1:24:23
you hitting on you know some of the players have been in your band and such you have always had an amazing band no
1:24:28
matter what you've always put and and to me it kind of goes back to being in those great Bluegrass bands seeing the
1:24:35
hot band being in the cherry bombs you've always well yeah Rodney and Emmy taught me that we respect respect those
1:24:41
guys you know most people take a road band out and don't pay them any money and you know three-o room and whatever
1:24:48
you know all that kind of stuff and I wouldn't I didn't never want to do that yeah and I had to deal with my guys back
1:24:54
and I was really touring a lot and doing well I said I'll make you a deal if you come play in this band I said if I do
1:25:00
better you will too there won't be a base pay there'll be a if I make more you'll make more yeah we'll we'll we'll
1:25:07
make this thing work for everybody yeah often times their bonus checks were bigger than their normal salaries you
1:25:12
know but you know I've because I've been that guy you know you've held on to good
1:25:18
good and even as you've had you know you've I've had people treat me good you know yeah and then you've had John Huey
1:25:25
and Paul Franklin and JD mayus all these all these cats you know play play in your band but you know once again I just
1:25:34
I I think that they would all tell you I give them respect they deserve you know
1:25:39
and so yeah I could have made more money if I have cut back here and cut back there but didn't didn't didn't matter
1:25:45
too much to me and you're particular about the way like at one point I was talking to to Jed Hughes and uh and I
1:25:53
asked him I said is it like you know playing with Vince and he said Vince hears everything yeah and he said that
1:25:58
he you know that he you know he's paying you're paying attention to everything and that you get you know like you
1:26:04
prefer like different voicings and things like that of chords and things like that at times and it's
1:26:11
like you're on it but I'm not I'm not you know I give everybody
1:26:17
has I always say the record's a real good place to start yeah if you want to find something in in to enhance that go
1:26:25
ahead I'm all for it yeah you know and I'm not a I'm not a note for I'm in a band that's a note fornote you know
1:26:31
expectation of of everything you reproduce with the Eagles but U that's the way it should be you know I can't
1:26:38
imagine not hearing those songs and not hearing the iconic lines the iconic
1:26:43
backgrounds everything that made the arranging of those records so great yeah
1:26:49
those those the deserve it yeah the Eagles are yeah you have to reproduce
1:26:55
exactly but you know with with us some some things like I like to hear I like to hear the
1:27:02
intro to when I call your name like Barry Becket played it yeah I like to hear you know just certain things hey
1:27:07
that was pretty was a pretty valuable part of that song and familiar you know
1:27:14
playing with those those guys with Don and Joe and and Timothy is just been a great lesson to relearn how important
1:27:21
songs are you know if you got great songs you're going to win then they do have they have a catalog of
1:27:27
great Tunes where they just play what what do you all do two hours or sh yeah just like oh yeah I know that one yeah I
1:27:33
know that one I know that one yeah pretty pretty remarkable yeah so they they're they're exactly as they should
1:27:40
be Furthest Thing from a jam band you know yeah yeah in a good way well thank you Vince
1:27:48
I really appreciate you uh letting us you got something you can use invade your home oh yeah yeah
1:27:55
glad we finally got to do this thank you yeah brother yeah