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well hello friends and welcome to ask
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Zach today we're going to talk about one
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of the most important country albums of
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all time it went number one on the
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country charts it spearheaded the
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neotraditional movement of the early
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1980s coming out of the Urban
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Cowboy
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period it's Ricky Skaggs album highways
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and heartaches released in September of
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1982 and it had three number one hits
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and a number two it's Fourth single
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uh an amazing record and we're going to
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talk about the making of it and the
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significance of it and we're going to
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talk about the instrument that Ricky is
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is holding on the inside of the
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album which is a Glazer Mando caster
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which is a five string electric mandolin
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with a bender on it oh my goodness this
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this thing's crazy and and I have to
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thank of course my friend that let me
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borrow it but this was a instrument
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specifically made by Joe Glazer for
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Ricky to use and he solos like crazy on
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it on one of the tracks so that's
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today's topic Ricky Skaggs highways and
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Har heartaches first off I need to thank
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my patreon members if you'd like to join
1:35
them in supporting me there's a link in
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the description also there is tip jar
1:39
information and there is merch you know
1:41
t-shirts and coffee mugs and such also I
1:44
always appreciate it if you just hit the
1:46
thumbs up all right let's dive
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in so first off we need to do give you
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kind of the nickel version of the Ricky
1:55
skagg story of course he grew up in
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Kentucky was a bluegrass G played with
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quite a few different you know bigname
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bands and he kind of started moving
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toward a hybrid of country and kind of
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rockabilly Bluegrass and such with a
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band he had called Boon Creek that
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featured Jerry Douglas on Doo and for a
2:19
short time had Vince Gil also in the
2:21
band um he then went on to play with Emy
2:27
L Harris and the hot band he was brought
2:29
in to Place Rodney crra so this was kind
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of like the mark 1. A1 or whatever you
2:38
want to call it version of the hot band
2:40
where James Burton had left and had been
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replaced by Albert Lee and then of
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course Rodney crra an original hot band
2:48
member had left and was being replaced
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by Ricky So Ricky had a huge effect on
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the hot band and the hot band had a huge
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effect on Ricky So Ricky uh of course
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brought the Bluegrass instrumentation
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and kind of the
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tunes and his Harmony singing and and
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his in instrumental prowess great fiddle
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playing mandolin playing acoustic guitar
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work and the hot band taught him about
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electric instruments using amplifiers
3:21
mik you know everything being miked up
3:24
um you're getting to play with one of
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the best bands on the planet these were
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guys that played both on the records and
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toured with Emy and so you had you know
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John wear on drums Emy Gordy Jr on bass
3:37
Glendy Harden on piano you know Albert
3:39
Lee playing guitar Hank DeVito on steel
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and all those guys were they were all
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very obsessed with music and they were
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all sharing Tunes with each other and
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they were making up little you know I
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guess what you'd call mixtapes and such
3:54
and uh and they were you know passing
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stuff around and and and having fun with
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it
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Well Ricky decides to make a solo record
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and he does and it was for the Sugar
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Hill label and it was called sweet
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Temptation and it has some uh some help
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from some of the hot band guys and it's
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a great album has Albert Lee also has
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buddy emons guesting on steel on a
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number of cuts and it's kind of an
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interesting album in that it kind of the
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tunes tend to be either Bluegrass or
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country he hasn't really gotten into his
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hybrid music yet that we're going to get
4:33
to uh he decides to make a second album
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he has a I guess he has a two deal um
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you know two record deal with Sugar Hill
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and he starts making the second one with
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the hot band and so you know you've got
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Albert Lee and John wear again all these
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cats you know playing on this album with
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him and he's on a flight and he's
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listening to Ruffs and he happens to be
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bumped up to first class and he's
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sitting next to a guy that ends up being
5:05
a big wig at A&M records and Ricky you
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know puts his headphones on the other
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guy's you know head well because he asks
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he wants to hear it
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and he says you really need to uh you
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know go to Nashville you need to get on
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a major label uh he ends up meeting with
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a couple of labels that pass but they
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send him to Rick Blackburn with epic you
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know which was part of CBS records which
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later became part of
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Sony and they sign him and it's all
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based on these tracks that Ricky cut
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with the hot band unfortunately they're
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owned by Sugar Hill and so without there
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being negotiations and money Changing
5:49
Hands uh they can't release the tracks
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so they send Ricky into the studio to
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cut a record now Ricky wants to produce
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it because of course he produced sweet
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Temptation and also the tracks he did
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with hot band but the label is a little
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bit hesitant with that but they agree to
6:10
it and so they they bring in a
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producer/engineer named Marshall Morgan
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to help out just as someone that has a
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ton of experience as an engineer and
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also has production experience as a
6:23
producer so just to give you a little
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bit of information about Marshall
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Marshall uh worked for the Eagles he was
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a tech out on the road and also so but
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he also worked with them in the studio
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and learned a lot from watching Eagles
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producers and watching how they cut tape
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and cut tracks and all sorts of
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different aspects of the recording
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process and Marshall learned about
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cutting tape you know which the Eagles
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were notorious for cutting and splicing
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tape and so that's where Marshall Morgan
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learned how to do that so Marshall was
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brought in and they cut Ricky's first
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album for epic called waiting for the
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sun to
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shine and it
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features uh a mix of Studio guys and
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some cats that Ricky had found that he
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wanted to be part of his
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band one of them probably most
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importantly is a wonderful guitar player
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named Ray Flack so Ray Flack was a uh or
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is a British British guitar player and
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Ricky met him in the UK so Reay was
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auditioning he was supposed to
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audition uh for Emy L to potentially
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replace Albert Lee in the hot band
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because Albert was going to leave to you
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know to push his solo record but of
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course Albert ends up instead of you
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know going out on tour to toh promote
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his solo album he goes out on the road
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with Eric Clapton and does world tours
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for the next four or five
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years um yeah so so Emy and the hot band
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show up in the UK they're late and Ray
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is sitting around playing guitar and
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everyone else is madly setting their
8:13
stuff up not paying any attention to Ray
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Flack but Ricky Skaggs pays attention to
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this guy and he realizes that this guy
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is a really really amazing soloist and
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Telly guy and he's the perfect guy for
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Ricky's version of the hot band which
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he's to put
8:30
together so fast forward back to U
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making waiting for the sun to shine well
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Ricky's got Ray Flack intoo as his
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Albert Lee and that's not to in any way
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uh reduce Ray's influence or his playing
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or his importance on this album it was
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just that was the kind of the role he
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was
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playing uh there are great songs on
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there there's don't get above your
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raisin and some other Tunes but the the
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songs that go to number number one are
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you know slower tunes and so they're
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crying my heart out over you and I don't
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care uh which are great songs but
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they're not really picking songs they're
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not really this Bluegrass hybrid thing
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yet you kind of get a taste of it with
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don't get above your raisin and and some
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of the other Tunes off the album but
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we're not there yet so it at this
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point there's a sense that maybe they
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were trying to negotiate to use those
9:30
hot band tracks that Sugar Hill owned
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but instead they go in again and cut
9:35
another record and so this album ends up
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being highways and heartaches again
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Marshall Morgan is mixing and recording
9:43
it and Ricky is producing it and you
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have a interesting mix of his live
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band on certain tracks and then certain
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tracks have Studio cats so his live band
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at the time had Mickey Merritt on piano
10:00
had Ray Flack on guitar you know you had
10:04
uh Rodney price on drums you had Jesse
10:08
Chambers on Bas Bruce boutton on steel
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and you had U you know Bobby Hicks
10:13
playing
10:16
fiddle and then on the more Studio
10:20
player track tracks you would have Jerry
10:23
crun playing drums and you'd have the
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amazing Wrecking Crew base player Joe
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Osborne
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and so it's here we need to just kind of
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give credit for the amazing influence
10:35
that Joe Osborne had on Ricky skags base
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sound the the you know kind of the the
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sound that you hear on the Skaggs
10:44
records through the years and the way
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his following B bass players live and in
10:48
the studio kind of do things and Ricky
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kind of tends to become a fan of guys
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that use a jazz base with flat wound
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strings and play with a flat pick and so
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that was the way Joe Osborne played and
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that's the way Jesse Chambers played and
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you know the ensuing bass players that
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played Electric in his
11:08
band uh you know you have uh so yeah so
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there's tracks that have the live band
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interestingly enough the tracks that
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feature the live band end up being the
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majority of the number one hits on there
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which you know is just funny because
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those those Tunes were harder to cut
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because as good as those Live players
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are they're not used to being in the
11:29
studio every day and so it just takes
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longer to do it again not that they
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didn't do a great job it just takes
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longer to cut tracks when you're dealing
11:39
with Road players versus session players
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that are in the studio day in and day
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out so just some of the tunes that are
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off here uh the opening track is
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heartbroke which is a guy Clark tune
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which has an amazing Ray flax solo
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um it uh it ends up going to number
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one um it's a you know and on this I you
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know don't know for sure on all this but
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Marshall Morgan indicated to me
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that many times because Ricky liked to
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splice tape he would get ray Flack to
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take multiple passes at a
12:20
solo and then they would piece it
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together not that any of the solos were
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bad or had any mistakes in it but every
12:28
every attempt was very different and
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they would piece together the best
12:32
pieces from each each one to get the
12:35
most fiery over-the-top guitar solo they
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could get out of Ray and from that I I
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know this is true also because of
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interviewing Ray Flack where he said I
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didn't play that and what it is is that
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again it was like multiple takes of him
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improvising and then you piece it
12:54
together in a way that's like well I
12:56
didn't play those things together so and
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they sounded really good on the album
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but it became frustrating you know for
13:04
Rey because all of a sudden he was
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trying to piece together you know four
13:08
different solos that he played and all
13:10
of a sudden you've got to play something
13:11
where it sounded right but it didn't
13:13
make sense on the guitar to go from one
13:15
lick to another so you get some really
13:18
amazing solos though um let's see what
13:22
else about hartbrook just a a great you
13:25
know kind of you know country tune it
13:27
was also cut by George St great but of
13:29
course you know Skaggs had the hit with
13:31
it the next song in the album is you've
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got a lover which was another single and
13:36
it was the only one that went to only to
13:38
number two so and you've got a lover is
13:41
featuring the studio cats so it's got
13:44
Jerry crw playing drums it's got you
13:46
know Joe Osborne playing bass and uh and
13:49
you have a beautiful beautiful beautiful
13:52
steel guitar solo by the great Lloyd
13:54
Green one of his best solos of all time
13:57
I just I I love what he did on that that
14:00
um then one of the other interesting
14:03
tracks is another one of the singles
14:05
that went number one is called I
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wouldn't change you if I could and on
14:10
that tune it's interesting because Ray
14:12
Flack is not playing on that cut and
14:15
Ricky is playing electric guitar and
14:16
he's using a bender so this is the first
14:19
example of Ricky playing electric B
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Bender telecaster and he plays some
14:24
really nice fills on the tune it's kind
14:26
of a midtempo tune and uh and he he's
14:30
kind of like neck pickup or both pickup
14:32
kind of sound it's more of your you know
14:34
kind of laidback bendry kind of stuff
14:36
that Albert you know was very Adept at
14:39
doing but uh it's actually of course
14:42
Ricky uh then you have can you hear me
14:44
calling which is another you know
14:46
Bluegrass tune where he's again we're
14:48
getting into this hybrid sound where
14:50
they're where they're really kind of
14:52
honing in on it they're really kind of
14:54
you know you've got this you this old
14:55
bluegrass tune that of course you know
14:58
starts off with with you know the the
15:00
the fiddle lick and uh and just has some
15:03
really great picking on it and such uh
15:06
then we get to the the next number one
15:10
song off the album which is Highway 40
15:12
Blues which was of course a Hu a huge
15:14
hit it's a perennial and this is another
15:17
one where you've cemented the hybrid
15:19
sound the country Bluegrass rockabilly
15:22
thing has really been brought into Focus
15:25
here amazing solos by Ricky on acous
15:29
mandolin you have a great you know banjo
15:32
playing by Baya Fleck you have the great
15:34
you know you know steel solo by you know
15:36
Bruce Bouton and great guitar solos by
15:39
uh Ray Flack really wonderful tune great
15:42
you know opening lick Harmony lick
15:44
between the steel and the electric
15:47
guitar the album
15:49
closes with a tune that is just an
15:53
excuse to take a bunch of solos and it's
15:56
a Rodney Crow tune called one way Rider
15:59
and it clocks in at 5 minutes 27 seconds
16:03
long and that's because this is the live
16:06
band The Road Band getting to to stretch
16:10
out and so you get great solos by Ray
16:14
Flack and Bruce boutton and you get
16:18
fiddle solos by Bobby Hicks and such and
16:21
you get some amazing playing by Ricky on
16:28
a glaz laser Mando
16:31
Caster so this was an instrument that
16:35
Joe Glazer specifically made and
16:39
designed for Ricky skags this is an
16:42
emblem of what Ricky was doing this
16:45
instrument is a mix of Bluegrass Country
16:49
and rockabilly you know it's it's a
16:51
mandolin but it only has single course
16:54
it doesn't have double courses like a
16:55
regular acoustic mandolin and it has a
16:58
low seed on it also you know of course
17:01
it's solid body and then it's got a
17:04
bender on its second string which of
17:06
course in this case is an A so it's an a
17:08
bender instead of a b
17:09
bender and this is just an amazingly
17:13
cool instrument uh so much of this is
17:16
completely Handmade by Joe because none
17:18
of these things you couldn't order any
17:20
of this stuff the body is you know a
17:23
sandwich of at least two pieces of wood
17:27
you can see this line here
17:29
uh you can see that this is a this is a
17:32
homemade uh you know control plate these
17:34
are homemade knobs you know this has a
17:37
little three-way switch for the two
17:39
pickups you have this bridge is
17:41
completely homemade except for the
17:42
Saddles the Saddles these are like
17:43
Mighty might you know kind of
17:45
Keyhole um Saddles you have you know I'm
17:50
sure this is a homemade you know Bridge
17:52
plate that had to be Chrome plated
17:55
you've got homemade you know five pole
17:58
you know little single coil pickups that
18:00
sound amazing you adjust the height just
18:02
like on a Telly on a little miniaturized
18:05
and on the neck it has these little
18:06
screws back here to adjust the height of
18:08
the neck pickup kind of like an old Dan
18:11
Electro or Jerry
18:12
Jones of course you have the B Bender
18:15
you know of course it's an a bender here
18:17
you have the tuning adjustment and the
18:18
tension adjustment back here you have a
18:21
beautiful Maple body Maple neck uh
18:24
bird's eye it's got a truss rod so I
18:26
mean of course you had to make all these
18:28
things
18:29
uh you've got the Glazer logo on there
18:33
uh with Mando Caster kind of a spaghetti
18:35
type logo double string tree shaller
18:38
machine heads which are you know one of
18:40
the few things on here besides the
18:42
screws that he was able to just buy um
18:45
this is an amazing little
18:48
instrument so right now I'm going to uh
18:52
I'm going to plug plug her in and uh I'm
18:54
going to play a little bit of uh you
18:57
know some single note lines and I'm
18:59
going to give you some Bender you know
19:00
type things and uh and then I'll give
19:04
you um some tracks using uh Echo so in
19:10
Ricky's playing on oneway Rider a lot of
19:12
it is just the straight mandocaster with
19:14
maybe some slapback delay but
19:18
then at at the outro of the tune he
19:21
turns on an Echoplex and uses a dotted
19:23
eighth note
19:25
repeat and he uh he plays some really
19:28
cool lines that you know we're kind of
19:30
used to hearing that stuff from like
19:32
Albert Lee has done it at times as had
19:35
um you know uh you know John Jorgenson
19:39
on uh you know Orange Blossom Special
19:42
the intro to that or price I pay it's
19:44
this dotted eighth repeat where the
19:46
original note is the same volume as the
19:50
uh you know the repeat is the same
19:52
volume as the original note so I'm going
19:53
to play a little bit of that and then
19:55
we'll uh and then we'll come back here
19:59
d
20:36
all right hope you enjoyed that uh again
20:39
this is such a cool little instrument
20:41
and I uh hope to get to talk about these
20:44
more later and again I need to thank uh
20:47
you know darl Cole so thank
20:51
you all right well I hope that you will
20:55
check out highways and heartaches and uh
20:58
also I hope you'll listen to don't cheat
21:00
in our hometown which of course is the
21:02
uh the album that came that finally came
21:05
out uh that had the hot band tracks on
21:08
it so finally they uh you know CBS epic
21:11
made a deal with Sugar Hill and they
21:14
were able to release it and it was a big
21:16
album for Ricky it had Honey Won't you
21:18
open that door and Uncle pen on it and
21:20
so it's interesting cuz on on don't
21:22
cheat in our hometown some of the tunes
21:24
were cut in the 70s with the hot band
21:26
and some were cut in the early 80s with
21:28
his Road Band so you've got like Uncle
21:29
pen that has his Road Band you know Ray
21:32
Flack and then you have you know honey
21:35
won't you open that door that has you
21:36
know the hot band and Albert Lee you
21:38
know playing B Bender guitar and it's a
21:40
really great album also so I hope you'll
21:43
uh listen to some old Ricky skags and
21:45
and just understand you know one it's
21:47
just a great album on its own but then
21:49
when you put it in the context of what
21:50
was going on at the time in country
21:52
music and just how kind of Pop crossover
21:57
kind of heavily you know pop influence
22:00
and you know it was people want to make
22:01
money I mean who cares I mean yeah but I
22:04
mean but you know this album was a big
22:05
deal you know highways and hardex was a
22:07
huge deal it was a number one album had
22:09
three number ones and a number two
22:11
single that's a lot when a when a album
22:13
has that many you know hit singles on it
22:16
it's a big deal so uh go listen to it
22:19
and we'll see you next time bye-bye