A young Latina finds sobriety

30 something Clarissa discusses her recovery

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Oh. And uh we were talking about the Chinese farmer. Have you ever heard that story?

SPEAKER_02 0:11

I have not.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

I heard it in recovery. It's you know, it's a shaggy dog story, it goes on forever, but the the shorter version of it is uh a Chinese farmer's horse runs off. And that's that's that's your ass if you're a farmer. You know not a not a big agribusiness farmer. And uh his neighbors all said, Oh man, your horse ran off. That's terrible. And he said, Oh, maybe. And the next day, the horse returns and it's brought a friend with him. So now he's got two big, beautiful horses, and the neighbors are jealous. They go, Man, you're the you're the king of the neighborhood now. And he goes, Oh, maybe. And his uh oldest son, who does a lot of work on the farm, climbs on the new Mustang and gets thrown and breaks his leg. And the neighbors are like, that's terrible. Your best worker and your beloved son is, you know, busted leg. It's awful. And he goes, Well, maybe. And the next day the army guy comes through to to take all the eldest sons off to war to die, but this one's off the hook because his leg is broken. And the neighbors are like, Man, you dodged a bullet with that one, you're lucky. And he goes, well, maybe. So it goes on and on like that. The point being, uh I I am inclined to judge things before all the evidence is in. Now, my people were Irish, so they were farming potatoes. I don't know how many horses are involved in that. You describe your your uh uh where'd your folks go where did your forebears come from? What's your ethnicity?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

I'm Mexican.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Oh, from Mexican American. Aaron Ross Powell From like your folks are from Mexico or what's up.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

From Juarez. From Sudan.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, yeah. That's across from El Paso.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Aaron Ross Powell That is. Just across the border. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

I I very nearly got into trouble there, and I will not elaborate on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Well, I'm Texan too, so it depends who I'm talking to.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

So you I'm Texan too, so you'll talk more slowly and explain simple ideas than we I can be tough to whoever needs to be tough.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

So if you're gonna put on your Texan, what's the difference between that and your Mexican aspect?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Aaron Ross Powell I just speak English when I'm trying to be Texan.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

But it's not an attitude adjustment.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

No. It's the same attitude.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Aaron Powell So you have no opinions about Texans and what they're like?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Aaron Ross Powell I reserve my comment on Texans.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Okay. Where were you born?

SPEAKER_02 2:36

What year?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

No, where? I'm sorry. Where were you born?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

I don't remember the hospital name, but.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

What city?

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Aaron Ross Powell El Paso. Oh okay. All right. Yeah, El Paso. But I I was raised in Juarez till I was 10.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

I've walked back and forth across the bridge. I don't know what the state of the party is now. In the nineties, things were more relaxed. You could go down for lunch and stuff. And I also have spent a lot of time in Los Angeles. And so there's uh no San Isidro? Is that what's across from San Diego? Is that right? Or maybe it maybe on the American side it's San Isidro and you walk down into Tijuana. That's what's across. Boy, I'm gonna have to brain leaks.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

We need to get out there more.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

And uh in terms of recovery, uh I'm here to learn. It seems like it's different it's different for folks uh from your community here in Santa Fe than uh I think there would you would you agree there are different challenges to even walking in the door? And we'll we'll get to the fact that you're female later, but but just being Hispanic, is that is that different than than not?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

It is different. It's really hard for for men to admit that there's a problem. Because we come from a culture that um alcoholism is good scene.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Um that's not just drinking, but alcoholism.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Alcoholism. You're you're you're born that way, you're expected to be an alcoholic. You're ex alcohol alcohol runs in the family. Alcohol alcoholism runs in the family. So it would be a surprise if you're not alcoholic.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I've never heard that said.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

So for for men, it's you know, good scene to have a beer in their hand or drink a whole bottle of tequila. But getting to that point that you need help and admitting that you need help as a man is somehow degrading for a for a Hispanic man.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Aaron Powell, it's weak.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

It's weak. You've seen you're you're seen as weak. So the the the man that stays, that goes into an AA meeting and stays is rare. That's why you see less groups, that's why you see less men in the Hispanic, in the Spanish-speaking um meetings.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

We have uh dedicated Spanish-speaking uh section of the building here at the community center where we have meetings in Santa Fe. It's the friendship club. And by by creating a separate uh it's on the second floor, it's it's off in its own world. That seems to have been effective in in growing the numbers. Do you think that's a coincidence, or what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Um if men were more open-minded and not so shy about admitting there was a problem, that room will be full every single day. Uh when I first started going to that group, we were 11 people in there. And right now we're up to 36. So hard work has been put in to that group of going out there and spreading the message and s and saying, hey, there's a solution for that. You don't have to live that way. Yes, our culture says otherwise, but you don't have to live that way. You you can't you don't have to suffer if you don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Um in the downstairs section where I am a lot of the time, um I see people sheepishly walking up to the front door and maybe looking at the we've got a uh a box of of uh uh grab your help yourself uh schedules, printed schedules on the front, kind of like a realtor box. And you can tell by body language when somebody's g coming slowly up the ramp and looking up at the signs and kind of looking behind them to see who's looking. Yeah, I mean you can tell that what what I'm looking at. Do you get that upstairs? Do you get people walking in with a with a piece of paper in their hand, kind of looking around like am I in the right place? Does does it does it happen that way?

SPEAKER_02 6:30

It it does. Um you can see that fear in their in their phase. You can see that I don't belong here kind of look.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Aaron Ross Powell Now it's it's not uh it's not rare for people in recovery to be court ordered from DWI and and uh that's usually what's uh what's up. Um so you you get people with court papers to sign coming up there too?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. We do. We have around six, seven people that that um that have the paper paper to sign. Um and a lot of them since I started have stayed after the court mandated, and they're celebrating three, four, five years now.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Aaron Ross Powell Great. Wow. The it's as we record this pandemic was six years ago, and the building here was closed for over a year. You know, it's easy to forget what the world was like during pandemic. We were uh no restaurants, no movie theaters. Um we were spraying doorknobs and leaving groceries in the garage for a couple of days before we brought them into the house. Because we, you know, and and um and so as we opened things back up, uh You said the the the in-person meetings in the Spanish-speaking uh section were house. It were really small, like ten people.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

When I first got here four years ago.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

We live in a we live in a city of depending on how you want to count it, you know, 100,000 tops. It's seasonal because we're a ski you know, winter sports place. Um but out of a hundred thousand people, they say that fifty-five percent are Spanish speaking. And it was a tiny slice of the pie uh here. But it uh how how how are your friends hearing about us in the first place? If it's not court-ordered, how do they hear about the friendship club or AA?

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Aaron Ross Powell So in the fifth tradition of of the of AA of Alcoholics Anonymous, it says that every the primary purpose of every AA group is to spread the message. So we have a committee, we have a group of people that we go out there and put flyers up of that this group exists, this Spanish-speaking group exists. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

What here? Laundromats, libraries, where are you going?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Everywhere that that the door is open, we put a flyer.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Do you get feedback from that? Do people go, I was at my doctor and I saw this thing, or I was we've gotten a couple that that do.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Um we leave our we have business cards, we leave them in places. Um and we have a number that they can call and just ask for information.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

And are you the person that answers that call a lot of time? The phone call?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Uh sometimes, and we have other people that that answer that phone call.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Aaron Ross Powell And I know that you spend a lot of your uh evenings driving to other cities in northern New Mexico, that's right, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Aaron Ross Powell I do. Um I'm part of the Public Information Committee for Alcoholics Anonymous for the Hispanic Intergrupal office. Uh so we our our job, our service is to go spread the message around.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

How do you do it?

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Love of service.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Aaron Ross Powell No, no, no. I don't mean emotionally, how do you do it? I mean how do you set up how do you find a place where there are going to be people for you to walk in and talk to? Just cold call by knocking on doors, or what do you do?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Aaron Ross Powell, you knock doors, you get contacts, that contact gets you another contact is just a snowball. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Sure. Can you name an example of where you met with one group and they turned you onto another group?

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Aaron Ross Powell For example, the Mexican consulate, the consulate of Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I would call an ambassador.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

An ambassador, yeah. Really? So it's on 4th Street in Albuquerque. So we went one day, uh they they were having a resource event. And we just went and we asked if we could put a table that we were from, AA, and they said yes. We had business cards, we spread them out.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

So like like a job fair kind of deal where there's different different people with it.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Exactly. But instead of jobs, it's just resources, just for help. Food, recovery, anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Aaron Ross Powell Medical care, dental care.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Usually everything is free for those resources.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: ESL. Do they still use that term ESL? When I was living in Los Angeles, English is a second language, which is a real common thing too.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And just by spreading business cards and getting into a message thread, we find out of events, things happening in the community. So we just go, we call and say, can we go? Usually, most of the time, 99% of the time, they say yes. And we go, set up a table, and do our service.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Trevor Burrus And well, so that's you have the advantage of you you have a place. The Friendship Club is a building. It's a place people can come to. So it's not just they're not just searching on Google, you know, how do I get help with my problem? They can come walking and they find where the the weird stairway is going up to the second story and they come in looking at a piece of paper and looking around and they run into you and you saw them at some event. Has that has it happened that way?

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Aaron Powell It has happened. Yeah, it has happened. Um and there's people that have been in the group for like five, six months now because of events that we've did we've done. Aaron Powell Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Congratulations. Thank you. And we we know you and I are both recovery folks that that it's it's life-saving and and it gives you a life, you know, if you um if you do put in the work. And so you get to see you know, from from before the beginning to taking a one-year chip and having a you guys throw parties up there that are setting records around here. I love it. The food is amazing. I see more of a family atmosphere. A little bit of kids running around and and old folks on you know, walkers and canes and wheelchairs, even though it's upstairs. Uh you know, when when we're out there doing the deal, we would do anything to get to the liquor store. And and so uh a stairway was not a it was not a real obstacle. Um Well done you. Now, you know, we're we're gonna turn to um men and women. You you like to say you're the only one that only woman that goes to the meetings up there.

unknown 12:41

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

I'm the only one among thirty-four men.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Ever or of a few come and gone?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Aaron Ross Powell When I first got to the group uh four years ago there was a downstairs it's at least fifty percent women. Aaron Ross Powell When I first got to the group four years ago, um there was another another woman in there. Uh but she was driving from Española over here. Okay. But then a group opened in Espanola, so she she left and she went to that group.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

So I stayed as the only as the only woman there. And to this day, I'm the only girl I'm the only woman in there. Um women have come and go, you know, from the group.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

There's three or four that have that have well there there's nothing rare in in recovery of people coming and getting a newcomer chip and then you don't see them and what happened? Who can say who can you know make assumptions? They might go to a different town or decide it's not for them or maybe not yet. But th those numbers are pretty awful. It's except for you zero. I mean that's not great numbers. What what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 13:44

You know, it's not only of the group. Um I wish there was more women in there. Uh sometimes I need that that support, you know, as women to women. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Um and I see it, you know, in all the groups that we have uh sixteen groups in District 17, it's the linguistic side.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Aaron Ross Powell I'm sorry, club AA uh AA meeting places? AA meeting places, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Uh so we have 17 in District 17. Uh it's the linguistic district for alcoholics anonymous.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

I'm assuming that's several counties you're talking about that put together.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Aaron Powell, yeah. So it's um it's um Espanola, it's Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Los Lunas, um Berlin.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Aaron Ross Powell Okay. Um I'm pretty sure I'm missing a lot of we have we have listeners all over the world, but but if if you're not hip to New Mexico, uh it's the fifth largest state and it's quite empty. Um pretty pretty low population here if you're from someplace like Texas or Arizona or California. Um and so every every place you just named from Berlin to to uh Espanola, it's all what we would consider within driving distance. There's even a there's even a commuter train here that goes to all those southern places you just named. Um it's uh you got 17 places to have meetings in a state roughly the size of Colorado or something in the northern half. And you know, I got sober in Los Angeles, and there were back then in the 20th century, 4,000 meetings a week. And I know that has probably so it's it's uh you have to look for it. And are we the only AA building? No, there's one in Albuquerque called the Heights. What else is there out there?

SPEAKER_02 15:26

The the Sletter Club?

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Yeah, that's another another one. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

But it's mostly rent a room in a church or or a strip mall or something like that. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah, and and there's seventeen groups. Um, and you would think, well, in those groups there's a lot of women. All combined were eleven women all together.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

So that's one per if you're doing the math that way. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

And there was a uh women's only group and it had to close because there's no women to go. There was only three of them in there.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Well, uh you know, I drive around and do a lot of handing out literature and shaking hands and doing whatever we can do. And there was uh there was a uh facility I want to say near Espanola, that uh they seem to lean heavily on gamblers anonymous. And from what I could tell, it was all women. And we've got a GA meeting here at the Friendship Club, and from what I can tell, it's all I don't think I've seen a guy go in there. Did you know that? I didn't know that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Uh you know what, we'll we'll we'll save that for when I uh a lady came into an AA meeting talking about She she said, actually I'm a gambler, and I'm just here because my friend was trying to save me from going to the casino today, so said just come catch an open meeting and you know, have a cup of coffee and hang out. And I made a joke that that, oh my God, gambling is an addiction. They they finally came up with an addiction that I don't have. And um because I've I've never you know, I was spared that somehow. I I can't remember the last time I lost 20 bucks at a at a gaming table. It's not something I think about. Um But this lady started crying and needed a little space. So I took her into my office, you know, give her a Kleenex and a place to sit. And then she started saying this, Clarissa, she said, uh Yeah, I was driving from work to home, and I knew I couldn't drive past the casino without going in, and it's killing me and it's taking everything. And she was crying. And I thought to myself, oh man. For me it's not blackjack or Texas Hold'em, but I certainly I started getting chills. I'm getting chills now. I know what it is to not be able to drive past the bad place and go do this thing you're powerless over that's wrecking your life and you can't quit. So there is a there's something going on in the brains of us addicts that you know, I call us zebras. I don't know if you've ever heard that. That that uh you know, you and I uh I'm an addict alcoholic. I assume you are too. Okay. So uh uh so you're my tribe. We're zebras. We kind of look like the horses. You know, we can kind of hang out with them, we can kind of pass. I mean we're not like the other little boys and girls. You and I were at a recovery meeting recently, and a normie uh uh told his told his story and talked about how the recovery in his family has been a you know great blessing. And at the same time, and this is a pal of mine, this is a guy I've had a hundred meals with and we're buddies, but not the same. It's just not the same. Uh I was at a I play music and I was at a club recently, and they gave us a drink ticket. And I didn't need it, I drink water. Um and uh uh a young lady I know said, Hey, could could you use it? Buy me a drink? Yeah, sure. And I bought her a, I don't know, a cocktail of some sort. And like two hours later, it was sweating. There was like one sit missing from it. It was over in the corner, forgotten. I'm like, man, y'all are doing this all wrong. You amateurs. Uh one drink ticket. That's that would be torture for me. Yes. Or off to the ATM, we'll show you. We'll get this thing rolling. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Exactly. Yeah. So so how do you look um as a we've covered a lot of ground. Is Latina is that a good language? Um I I believe that people have the right to be called what they want to be called. And so I try to try to learn. Um so you're a Latina and you you have superb language skills, so you could slide right into an English-speaking meeting every day of the week. Do you do that so you can be around more women in recovery?

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Does that sometimes I do. Um it's not I don't go often to the English meetings. I feel more comfortable in the Spanish meetings. That's my first language. The bad words are better in Spanish.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Aaron Powell The bad words are better. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Example When I have anger, I can say juetuchinga madre. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Oh, yeah. That's better than in English saying fuck you, you know. So it sounds more powerful.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

You know what? I've got uh I I bought some new earbuds for my phone and it's got a translate thing in there. I swear to God, I I keep saying I'm gonna do I'm gonna go into like one of one of the meetings upstairs or something, see how see how it does. It was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Um Let me know so they don't talk about you.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I wonder about that. I mean, you know, I've I've spent every day of my life in the American Southwest, but I'm embarrassed at my terrible uh Spanish. But I you know I know I can order lunch and find the John.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Can you say tacos?

SPEAKER_01 20:41

I yeah, I'm uh in like ten different kinds. I'm good there with menus. Um here's here's what I was trying to head towards. We do 30-minute episodes and we're about two-thirds through this one. So um you're a Latina, recovering alcoholic, super active uh uh in terms of reaching out to people and helping them get the help they need, and nobody's showing up like you. There are no women showing or close, you know, very close to zero. Um would how would you describe that? A problem, this the way it is? Do you have a in your heart, well, if I could just do X, I could fix some of this? What do you how do you look at that part of this?

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Honestly, when when I go and do my service of passing the message, I just don't go and tar target women, you know. Um because I know it's harder for Hispanic women or Latina women to go into an AA meeting to ask of to ask for help of something that we shouldn't have been doing in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Um So uh uh if I've heard what you said right, guys are expected to have uh a drink in their hand or in their lap or in their cup holder, and women are expected to never touch the stuff.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Is that what you just said or never touch it, be washing dishes, cooking, and be perfect. And no have no no addictions, nothing. Just be the home builder. And that's it.

unknown 22:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

It's it's really hard for women. It was hard for me getting into any meeting. Um it took a lot of time for me to admit that I had a problem.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

What what broke? What when when when was enough enough?

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Um when I thought I could drink two liters of vodka in two hours. And uh apparently I couldn't. So they I had a blackout, I fell, I had an accident, I fell, I hit my face, and my brother found me unconscious on the floor, um, just purple without breathing. It was uh April 15th of 2022 that day. And April 17th, um, Easter Sunday, I remember, was my first day sober. And April 18th, I went into Dux. So it it was and the breaking point was that Sunday, um, I saw I have a lot of, you know, resentment towards my dad. And it's he's a really hard-headed person. Uh, he's an alcoholic too. Um, and in my 33 years of or 28 years of life at that time, I've never seen my dad cry until that morning where he said, I've been sober for 20 years, but I can bring a bottle and we can drink it together if you want to kill yourself. And he started crying. That's where I said, I need help. I don't want to do this to my parents. I don't care what they did, I don't care the resentment I have towards them, but I don't want to do this. I need help. And that Monday I went into detox.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

To detox. Not into a into a hospital.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Into a recovery center.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Yes. And I was there for five days.

unknown 23:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yeah, my my sobriety started in a hospital too. Uh it was not my idea. I was I had limited options and I picked the hospital. I've been sober ever since. Thank you. And I hope you know we work together, so I know you pretty well. And you you're not uh you you display a lot of humility in in your life day to day. So I can say this because you wouldn't. I know for a fact that getting sober and starting to live the life you're living now, you c you'll never know how many uh people that's helped. Uh that normie I was talking about said it's it's not a a pebble in a pond, it's a wave. Sounds like it's maybe more men, maybe that you've helped than women at this at this moment, you know, to date. But you're young, you might have another forty years of working hard in AA ahead of you, and it might be a different world. I hope it is. And and you must be the queen of the hop up there. Everybody it's it's a very warm atmosphere. I love going in there to grab a taco and shake some hands and stuff, and and uh you know, it's a super family uh kind, warm atmosphere up there, and you must be the focus of a lot of good good stuff, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Aaron Ross Powell I'm the princess.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

You said it I didn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

I'm protected. They're my family. You know, it's never there's respect a hundred percent there. Um I don't know if it's because I'm a a woman or what, but I asked for permission to just get a book if we can raffle a book in the district. And they just tell me, do whatever you want, this is your group.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

You're the owner of this group.

unknown 25:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Which I'm not, there's no owners in the A, but you know, I'm the princess and I'm protected and I'm taken care of, and they know when I'm sad, and they they hug me and they pr they just protect me, you know. And they're my second family, some a safety that I can't find outside.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Gosh, that that just sounds so attractive to me. I wish more Latina women were coming here and and having that experience. It's huge, man. It's not little, it's huge.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

And it's nice being in a group full of men because I see their side. I hear their side instead of just my side as a woman.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Aaron Powell Give me an example.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Um You know, we have in our culture, we have a lot of music and songs uh towards men saying that they're worthless, they're useless, or whatever, you know. And now I see how sometimes their wife is the bad person, or I see that side, and I say, well, maybe we are kind of mean to them. You know, maybe we are kind of mean to men.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Uh and and but the doorway into that was was song lyrics?

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Aaron Powell, Yeah. There's a ex example? It just says that men are are stupid, that they're worthless because a man cheated on her. You know, so it there's a lot of songs, a lot of mariachi songs to men like that. You know, so it it's kind of funny, but then it's not funny. Um but I see their side, you know, I see what they go through, I see their struggles too. I see how how hard they work for their kids, for their family. You know, sometimes uh as women we take for granted. We just say, oh, it's your job to work hard.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Well, they're human too. They get tired, they have emotions, they can cry.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Everybody's working hard.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Exactly. So we forget that as women that men can be weak too, that they don't have to be strong all the time. And I see that in group. I've seen countless men cry when when they're sharing. Sure, of course. And break down and just cry, you know? So I see that side. So I love being in a group full of men because I see that their side.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

So enough was enough in that horrific, you know, episode that that took you to uh uh recover uh detox, I believe, is how you described it. Um Has there been a moment where you kind of looked into your heart and said, I really am sober now. I'm not I'm not a slave to that shit the way I was you know six years ago, seven years ago. Um what have you had a an aha moment in recovery?

SPEAKER_02 28:31

I have, but in the way of I don't need liquor anymore to to um live my life. But I don't think I'm sober a hundred percent. Not not because I use drugs or use alcohol behind everyone's back, but because there's more to sobriety than alcohol, than just drinking or using alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

You know, not not doing your best.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

You know, I haven't relapped in alcohol, but I've relapsed emotionally. And that's, in my opinion, worse than actually going to drink.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Okay. I I do know I've done inventories in sobriety, and the list is usually very short, but I was sober for all that it's like, yeah, you did you did you did this naughty stuff sober. You didn't have the well, I was hammered that night. What are you gonna do? No, not not in a long, long time.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

There's no excuse anymore.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Well, I I've never or almost never seen anybody work this thing as hard as you're working it. So it's a privilege to be in your company. You're very inspiring, and thanks for coming.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Thank you.