Doctors Said “Let Him Go.” Instead, He Built an Extraordinary Life | Ken Kunken

At age 20, Ken Kunken broke his neck making a routine tackle during a Cornell football game. Doctors told his family he probably wouldn’t survive the week — and if he did, he would spend the rest of his life in a nursing home.They even said: “If he were my son, I’d let him go.”But Ken refused to let that prediction define him.

In this deeply moving episode of Against the Norm, Ken shares how he returned to Cornell University just months after becoming paralyzed, eventually became a successful trial attorney, found love, married, and became the father of triplet boys at age 54. This conversation is not just about overcoming adversity. It’s about purpose, resilience, family, identity, and refusing to let other people define what your life can become. Ken’s story is a powerful reminder that even when life changes in an instant, meaning, joy, and contribution are still possible.  We discuss:

•  Surviving a catastrophic spinal cord injury 
•  Depression, hope, and rebuilding identity 
•  Returning to Cornell in a wheelchair before accessibility laws existed 
•  Becoming a lawyer and helping others with disabilities 
•  Marriage, fatherhood, and raising triplets 
•  Why purpose matters at every stage of life 
•  The mindset that kept him moving forward for over 50 years 

Ken’s Links
📘 Memoir: I Dream of Things That Never Were
🌐 Website: Kenneth Kunken's Website
📸 Instagram:
@ken.kunken
▶️ YouTube:
Ken Kunken YouTube Channel
📘 Facebook:
Ken Kunken Facebook Page

Contact us:   againstthenorm.net

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

At just 20 years old, Ken Cunkin broke his neck making a routine tackle on a college football field. Doctors told his family he wouldn't survive the week. And if he did, he'd spend the rest of his life in a nursing home. They even said, if he were my son, I'd let him go. But Ken didn't die. Instead, he went back to Cornell and became a trial attorney for over 40 years, got married, and became the father of triplets when he was 54 years old. This isn't just a story about survival. It's about building a life when life doesn't go the way you planned. You know, the most important thing I think at this point in time is to go back to the very, very beginning and to tell your story at the instant where everything in the world changed for you. Tell us a little bit more about what happened, how it happened, and what you felt afterwards. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Would you like me to start now?

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Well, in 1970, I had recently turned 20, and I begun my junior year at Cornell University. And at the time, I was majoring in industrial engineering. And I was playing on Cornell's lightweight football team. And in a game against Columbia, um, I ran down the field, made a tackle, tackled the ball carrier, and when I hit the ball carrier, I instantly became paralyzed. I had broken my neck, severely damaged my spinal cord, and as a result, I'm a quadriplegic, almost totally paralyzed below the shoulders.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Yeah, yeah. Now, did you know that that was how it was going to turn out when you got hurt, or did it take a long time? What was happening during all the I'm sure there was a long time of recuperation as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

It took a long time to understand exactly what happened. And when I was hurt in 1970, I didn't know of anybody else who had a spinal cord injury. This was more than 20 years before Christopher Reeves' devastating injury. So you didn't hear much about spinal cord injuries back then. Um, I had heard about somebody pinching a nerve, which I wasn't even sure what that was. And I thought maybe that's what happened. And, you know, in a few seconds or minutes, I jumped back up and run off the field.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Say that again. In a few minutes, you jumped back up and got up.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

No, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

That's what you thought.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, I thought this was uh just, you know, the shock of the impact of the tackle and that it would wear off within seconds, minutes at the most. Yeah. And I would get back up and run off the field.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Wow.

unknown 3:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

And what what was it like when you realized finally that it wasn't going to be temporary?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Well, it was really strange because, you know, I heard them call for a stretcher to lift me and carry me off the field.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

And I remember when they put me on the stretcher and lifted the stretcher up, it felt like they were just carrying my head off the field and left my body behind. It was as if I had been decapitated because I had no feeling below my shoulders at this point.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

And so, how long did it take before you realized that maybe this was going to be permanent?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Years. It wasn't a matter of days or months. It was years. The medical profession didn't tell me much about my condition. For some reason, back then, they seemed to believe the less the patient knew, the better. So I was not told very much about what my injury entailed or what the prognosis was.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

So, how old were you when you finally realized that this wasn't going to be something that you would recover from?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Well, I'm 75 now. I'm still adjusting and getting used to that thought.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Now, that is some philosophical statement there, Ken. That is nice to hear. Because I know that when we spoke a little bit a few weeks ago, you one of the interesting things about you is that part of your ability to stay optimistic was the fact that you thought that maybe medical technology or medicine would catch up to you so that ultimately you would be able to recover through medicine. Is that part of it? Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

You know, I knew they were making progress all the time, and despite the severity of my injury, whatever my injury was, I was convinced they would find a cure and I would be back up on my feet.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Right, right, right, right. And did you ever get depressed once you found out that it was going to be more than more than just an adjustment?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I was depressed for years, for years, but I tried to do my best not to let it stop me from doing things I felt were important for me to do. You know, I later learned that uh when I was in the emergency room, the doctor told my family that I probably wouldn't live through the week. The doctor said that uh if I were to survive, my life expectancy would be between five and nine years, that I would have no movement, that I would not be able to do anything, and I'd probably live the rest of my life in a nursing home. And the doctor actually said to my family, if he were my son, I would just let him go.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Thank God they never told you that.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Right. Right. I was very surprised when I heard that years later.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Wow. Well, now, of course, it's normal for someone to be depressed, but tell us what was the lowest moment in your life during those years.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Well, since I have no movement, I couldn't do a thing for myself. I was dependent on everybody for everything. And nobody seemed to want to listen to me. Nobody was answering my questions, nobody was uh responding to things I was saying about not only questions, but what I could do and what treatment I either wanted or didn't want. And it was so, so frustrating. And here I was, I had moments before my accident, I was a junior studying engineering at one of the most prestigious schools in the country for engineering. I was at Cornell University, and suddenly I was treated as if I didn't have a brain in my head, like I couldn't think at all. People would even come into my room and talk to the person next to me and ask them questions about me, as if I couldn't even speak for myself or think for myself.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Well, how did that make you feel at the time? It must have been awful.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

It felt me feel totally useless and as if I wasn't even there. And I can remember after a while, every morning, doctors would come into my room, turn to the attendant next to me, and ask them, How is Ken feeling today? Did he have a good night? While I'm laying right there, I couldn't believe that's the way I was being treated now. In addition to be totally helpless, it was very, very frustrating. I mean, it was as if I wasn't present, as if I didn't have a brain in my head, and as a result of my physical injury, I was basically useless, helpless, and just dependent on everybody. And it felt like there was nothing left for me to look forward to in life.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yet at the same time, you'd mentioned that in seeing other people during rehab, that you weren't going to allow yourself to be as limited as maybe they were, that you were going to make something of your life. What created that that drive in you? How did you decide to do that for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

It was definitely a result of my family and friends. They were with me by my side every step of the way and incredibly supportive. And they kept encouraging me that even though I had a severe physical disability, intellectually I was still the same person. And they basically said that they would act as my arms and legs if necessary to make sure I could still do everything in my life that I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

And so the limitations, the physical limitations, was it ever anything that you were able to overcome, or you still need people to help you do almost every single bodily function that people normally have?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

I still need somebody by my side to help me with everything. I cannot scratch an itch or wipe my nose or roll over in bed or do so many other bodily functions everybody does for themselves. Now, I've been injured more than 55 years now, and that part hasn't changed.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Do you still get depressed from it, or is it something that you just accept as part of life?

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Both. And I do my best to work to the other parts of my life that I can control.

unknown 10:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Uh-huh.

unknown 10:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Wow, wow, wow. So has it lessened the severity of the it's not you don't seem like a depressed person at all, to be honest with you, Ken. But has the angst lessened over the years because it's just something now that's part of, you know, like, you know, somebody has a persistent cough or somebody has a high blood pressure. It's just something that that is, rather than, you know, something that you you get angry about or depressed about all the time?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

No, I'm actually living a very happy life right there. I mean, despite my physical condition, I've been able to do a lot of things nobody thought was possible in my life. One of them is now I'm married. I've been married for more than 22 years now. My incredible life honor is just off camera to my right, still helping me every step of the way. And Norm, I'm also the father of triplet boys. I have three incredible sons, Joey, Jimmy, and Timmy. They're now 21 years old. They're juniors in three separate colleges in upstate New York, all doing remarkably well. How could I not be extremely happy and proud? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

It's something to be something that's very, very special. First of all, having triplets is quite unique, that's for darn sure. But that you have them at such an age. How old were you when they were born?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

They were born, I was in 1955. I was 54 years old. Wow, wow, wow. So what a difference how my life turned. I got married um in 1953. At the time it was uh, I mean, sorry, 2003. 2003, right? 2003. You couldn't be married when you were three years old, but okay. I used to be I used to be good with numbers, but 2003, you know, I was still 52 years old. And the thought that my life would make this kind of turn to one, I never thought I'd ever get married. And then not only to get married, but become the father of triplet boys, it's a whole different world for me.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yeah. Now what changed? Because for so many years you thought you'd never get married. How did that happen? And what was the process that you that you went through psychologically? What was going on in your head?

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Well, I remember talking to my aunt Betty uh about what type of future I could have, and could I ever even date or you know, meet a young woman that I would ever fall in love with? And she kept reassuring me that not only was it possible, but that it would happen and that I shouldn't rule it out. And as it turned out, in my particular case, because I needed so much help, um, I used to have to advertise in the paper to attract people to become my personal care attendants. Right. And on a number of occasions, I had females working for me as my personal care aides. And back in 2002, 2003, I hired a young woman named Anna who was absolutely incredible. And the more I got to know Anna, um the more our relationship became stronger. I actually met Anna in 1999. Excuse me. So I met her a few years ahead of, you know, when we got married, but I still had ruled out the possibility of it becoming a serious relationship. And again, my Aunt Betty kept encouraging me not to feel that way, but I uh still was hesitant. And as it turned out, our relationship grew so strong that it was actually Anna who proposed to me. I heard that in the read that in the book, yes. And uh fortunately, I had the good sense to say yes, and it was her idea to have a child, and again I had the good sense to at least try, right? And lo and behold, we had triplets.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

I know that must have been was it the sonogram that showed that there were triplets? Is that what how it was?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

I was present during the sonogram, and it was real exciting. And I could remember looking at the screen, and the doctor said, here's a sack, meaning that was a pregnancy. You know, there was an MMO. And I'm thinking, oh my God, this is so exciting. And suddenly here's another sack. And I'm thinking, jackpot, triple, our twins, just what I wanted because we both had agreed. We each have a sibling, you know, a brother and a sister. And we thought it would be great for our baby to have a sibling. So I'm thinking it would be great. We wouldn't have to go through the in vitro process a second time. Here we have to, and suddenly, almost immediately, the doctor said, here's a third sack. And Hannah and I looked at each other in amazement. Like, could this really be happening? Triplets? I'd never even seen triplets before, let alone thought it was a possibility. So why did my life change in an instant?

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Yeah. Well, tell us a little bit more about that. Because what I'm curious about is for many, many years you thought you'd never get married. And probably at the same time, you kind of said to yourself, Well, that means I'll never have children either. So now all of a sudden you're married, and within a couple of years, you have a set of triplets.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

How did that make you feel? And how did that change your life?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Well, initially I was feeling very guilty about it. I knew as a result of my condition, uh, it may be severely limiting for my wife to devote now her life to helping me. And then when she talked about having a baby, I thought, what kind of father could I be? I mean, I was growing up being very physically active, and my father, you know, went out with me and would throw the baseball around and, you know, teach me how to hit and catch a baseball. And I'm thinking, how could I do all of these with my son or dance with my daughter or um do so many other things that I saw other fathers doing? Um and I, you know, I had a number of nephews and nieces, and my wife kept encouraging me that um I was really good being an uncle and loved it. And she felt I would still be a very good father, and I'd like to think that I am. Uh, and it was the best decision I ever made. Now, of course, once we had triplets, rather than I was on as main attention, suddenly you played second fiddle now, or fourth fiddle. That's right. I was way down in the pecking water, so that took a lot of getting used to as well.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

That's for sure. Oh, I know that. Um, and so what accommodations did you make to be to be a good father? I'm sure you were, but as somebody who can't move around on his own, like what did you do? How did you accommodate to all the necessities of loving kids and being a father and birthdays and Halloween? I know that there was a special Halloween there. Tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Okay. Well, initially, I felt the best way that I could help was to stay out of the way. I needed to give out as much time as I possibly could for her to take care of the kids and do everything necessary, and then they helped me. And that took some getting used to. But eventually, I tried to see if I could help in any way that I could. And actually, I decided, you know, maybe the best thing I could do is just be the financial provider for the children and the family. So obviously I was working at the time, and I not only continue to work, but focused on making sure we had enough resources to support all of us. And that, of course, was challenging. Uh, but then there were a lot of little things like um buying a van that could accommodate not just me and my electric wheelchair, but three car seats, um, which was difficult. You know, finding an accessible place where we could live, that I could get around in my wheelchair, have three babies, and at least initially either a baby nurse or, you know, somebody to help not only Anna with the kids, but somebody to help me with my daily care since Anna could no longer do it while she was caring for the babies. Sure. So there were a lot of things that we need to adjust to and make arrangements for.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Definitely, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I saw a cute little picture of uh the, I don't know, maybe they were two years old or about, maybe two or three, of all of them in your wheelchair with you. It was just a very, very cute little picture to see that. Okay, so you're not carrying them, you're not putting them on your shoulders, but you got them, you know, in your wheelchair. It was really cute to see.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

I had the best I could. I wanted them as close to me as possible. So having the three in my wheelchair was the greatest joy. And I could sneak in a lot of kisses for each one individually, and uh that was the best. And then we go for walks all around the community with them on my lap, and I would try and talk with them and teach them things like that's an airplane, you know, and that's a a sewer, and you know, this is a bird, and just try and teach them everything, and it was great, great fun.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Oh, that's so nice. So you're a great provider, and you were able to take care of them as well. So that's uh that's really special.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

And the boys liked it too. I mean, to get a ride with daddy in his wheelchair, there were other kids in the neighborhood that would have liked to have done that.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

But no, they couldn't do that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

No, that was reserved for my three sons.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

No, that's so that I'm curious. Did they ever feel um like, okay, dad's not, you know, like other dads out there, did they ever feel embarrassed, or do they ever feel that, you know, something to be uh, you know, concerned with or embarrassed about?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

You know, we were uh I've had a lot of uh news articles written about me. And I remember way back when, when the boys were uh, I don't know, maybe four or five, uh they were present during one of these interviews, and an interviewer asked one of my children, what was it like growing up with a dad who's uses a wheelchair? And my boy looked at him quizzically and said, What do you mean? That's just my father. Like they didn't think anything strange about it. And in fact, when they used to go out on their own with other friends or family, they would come back and say, Dad, you could go there. There's a ramp, we saw it, without me even asking them. They knew that, right? Right. Um now, of course, when I went to back to school night with them and would meet other people, it was clear I was far older. Than anybody else's parents. And wherever I went, everybody seemed to assume I was their grandfather rather than their father.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

But I might add another time, I went out with uh one of my boys alone. I think he may have been about eight years old. And we, you know, went to a local stop and shop, just the two of us, to do some shopping. And I had gotten really dizzy. Sometimes I have issues with low blood pressure. And I was in bad shape. But fortunately, I had my son with me. And, you know, I told my son, could you give me a pill in my pocket? It raises my blood pressure. And could you lift up my legs? It helps to have my legs more on the same level as my heart. And there were like a crowd of people in the rest in the in the store. And they're kind of gathering around looking, and my son was perfectly calm, knew exactly what to do, didn't hesitate, gave me my pill, held up my legs, and felt perfectly comfortable doing it, even with a crowd of people watching. And I felt very reassured because I knew I was in good hands with my son there helping me.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

That's really special. A kid of eight years old usually does not or is not able to do something like that, at least not willingly and not, you know, uh, not correctly. It's it's hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

And especially when he saw that I was not in good condition at all. And we were, as I say, in a crowded store with a lot of people around, and was great about it. Wow, they also go off.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

That's so, so wonderful. Wow. And what what I wanted to go back to, and this is so fascinating, you mentioned that early on after your injury, someone, I don't know whether it was a doctor or somebody at the rehab center, said that the best that you could hope for would be to sell magazine subscriptions over the phone. And you did not accept that prognosis. You kept on going and you said, uh-uh, not me. So how did you keep on telling yourself that you're gonna do something different than what everybody else's expectations were for you?

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Well, once again, I had a lot of help and support for my family. Yeah, and that carried me through. But what happened was while I was in the rehab facility, nobody seemed to want to answer any of my questions. Now, I was at the Rusk Institute in New York City, a very well-known rehab facility, and they had published a pamphlet that had all aspects of spinal cord injuries. And they had a page about what type of movement you would have. And it mentioned that my level of injury, which is between the fourth and fifth cervical, that's very high up in the neck, that I may have some biceps, but no triceps, things like that, where I try and learn what that meant. Um, and it was right on point. And it had a page what type of level of sensation I would have. And it's just a few inches below the shoulders and up that I have feeling I have no sensation below that. And again, it was right on point. And it had a page about how it affects my bodily functions, excuse me, how it affect my bladder and my bowels and my lung capacity, and it was right on the money again. And then it had a page about what type of careers you may eventually be able to pursue. And the only career I saw for my level of injury was to someday sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. And I was devastated. I mean, Norm, here I had been studying industrial engineering at one of the finest schools in the country. And now we're talking about maybe someday selling magazine subscriptions over the telephone. And then I started thinking, wait a minute, I can't even dial a telephone. I mean, there were rotary phones there, not even touchstone phones. Sure. I couldn't write or take notes. I started to think, maybe I can't even do that. And my roommates in the rehab facility all had spinal cord injuries, but were hurt lower in the neck than I was, which meant they all had a lot more movement than I had, didn't seem to be doing anything with their lives. They were basically just sitting home with their families because they had a spinal cord injury. So I was really worried that what type of future could I look forward to if that's the best I may ever do. And fortunately, my family kept encouraging me, saying there's still a lot more. And, you know, people's expectations back then for somebody with a spinal cord injury were just so low about what you could eventually do. And my family kept me encouraged to exceed those expectations and believed there was a lot more I still could do.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Did you believe in yourself? Even they had all the faith in you, but did you believe it in yourself?

SPEAKER_00 27:20

You know, I kept thinking they were wrong. I kept saying no matter what, the doctors, nurses, therapists said they have to be wrong. This cannot be happening to me. So I believed there's still more I could do, and perhaps if I just ignored my injury, it would go away. So I decided to go back to school, and again, my family encouraged me. Yeah, and I was in the hospital and we have a facility for nine months and 20 days, and just 11 days after I was discharged, I went back to Cornell University and I resumed my studies in industrial engineering.

unknown 28:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

And it must have been that I read in your book that it's a very, very unusual to do that, at least at that point in time, because especially with Cornell, it's on a many hills are there. They didn't have ramps, there's stairs everywhere, hills everywhere. How did you accommodate to something like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Well, I certainly couldn't use my electric wheelchair outside of my dorm because nothing was accessible. Right. This was more than 20 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act took effect that mandated that facilities need to be made more accessible. So every one of my buildings that I had to go to had steps in front of them. And there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. So think about this, Norm. One of the classes that I took that met three times a week had 16 steps in front of it. And my dorm room was in a building that had 10 steps just to get in. On my first day of classes, I needed to be either pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps just to attend my first day. So it was obviously difficult, but with the aid of my personal care attendant and fellow students, they gave me a lot of assistance to enable me to do it. But at this time, I'm still trying to adjust, excuse me, to my physical condition. So trying to do all of that, navigate the campus, and try to focus on my studies was extremely difficult.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Now, how did you just out of curiosity, I I've I've helped a couple of times in my life somebody in a wheelchair, and to go upstairs, it's not just one person that has to do it. It's like multiple people, two, three, something like that. Did you always have somebody multiple people around that could help you?

SPEAKER_00 30:01

No, many times it was one person, my attendant, unless there were others around. And it was obviously really difficult for him. But in addition, it was really difficult for me because to pull you in a wheelchair up steps, you need to tilt the wheelchair back into a wheelie position. And at the time, my neck was still really sore from having broken my neck. So it was a real difficult effort on my part just to keep my head, you know, in an angle where my neck was supporting it, and it was very painful. And in addition, it's pretty scary being pulled up and down steps because you know you could topple over at any minute, and that did happen once or twice. So it was always scary that that was going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Wow, wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Yeah, how did you even continue with your studies, though? You couldn't write, you couldn't take notes, uh, iPhones didn't exist, and so I don't know if you recorded your lectures or how on earth did you take exams? How did you study? How did you do any of this?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Well, you know, it was really difficult. And people were suggesting why don't you take a tape recorder to class and record the lectures so that way you don't need notes, you'd have it on tape. Well, sitting through an engineering lecture is really boring. Really boring. Most of them were an hour at a time. The thought of sick and you know, sitting through them a second or third time to listen to the lecture on tape and then doing it for like all five classes was just not doable. So I came up with the idea, I'd give a piece of carbon paper to somebody else in the class, and I'd give them, you know, blank paper, and hope that by the end of class it wasn't too smudged for me to be able to read their writing. And I tried studying through their notes. And then I'd go in a separate room with a professor to take my tests orally with them, which was very intimidating because it was very clear to the professor when you didn't know the material, when you're just one-on-one with the professor, which made me feel I better start even study even harder, not to embarrass myself. It was quite a challenge.

unknown 32:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

It's funny that you know, back then I don't know, you know, what type of um what type of uh assistance, financial assistance, people were getting with disabilities and things like that. But I how did you pay for all the aids and the medical equipment and the hospitalizations and the medicines? What was the what did you do?

SPEAKER_00 32:52

That was also a real challenge and remains so for many people with disabilities. I was fortunate that my father happened to be an insurance salesman at the time of my injury, although he sold life insurance, you know, and not general insurance. He made sure that I had the best coverage uh that you could get back then, but it still wasn't enough. You still needed more help. And uh the football team that I played on actually started a fund for me to help pay some of the bills. And the community in which I lived, the Oceanside community, started a fund for me as well. And between those two funds and my father's insurance coverage, that helped pay for all the medical care that I needed. And that's a challenge and remains a challenge for many people with disabilities. The health care system really needs to be fixed. And I might add that as a result, six months after my injury, I was asked to testify before a United States Health Subcommittee chaired by Senator Edward Kennedy. They asked both my father and I to testify. And eight days after my testimony, Senator Kennedy sent me a glass paperweight in the mail that had an inscription on it that the senator said his late brother Robert Kennedy liked very much. And the words on that inscription have always been very meaningful to me. The inscription read, Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream of things that never were and say why not. And that's why I got the title of my book, I dream of things that never were, the Ken Kumpkin story. And that's my book on the shelf right behind me.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

I see it. I see it on the book, yeah, on the shelf behind you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for a you're you're now what, 75, Ken? 74, 75, 70. Yeah. So what do you think? As a person who's 75 years old right now, do you think that your life has um kind of gone the way a 20-year-old would have expected it to go? Or what are your reflections on something like that?

SPEAKER_00 35:09

It never went the way I had expected. First of all, nobody ever expects to be in this type of condition. Um, I might add, just as an aside, it just happened coincidentally, a night before my injury, uh, I was attempting to cook dinner on a gas stove for some of my football teammates. And when the stove was lit, the gas stove, it exploded. You know, there was the gas exploded, there was a bright flash of light coupled with a thunderous boom. I instinctively looked down to see if I was hurt, and I wasn't, you know, I was not burned, I was not even singed. And I remember lying in bed that night thinking about how lucky I was. I remember thinking if I can survive an explosion like that without being injured, I can survive anything. Nothing could happen to me. I must be invincible. And the next day is when I broke my neck. So the thought that something like this could ever happen to me was never something I would even contemplate.

unknown 36:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

But your life was successful beyond most wild expectations, despite any disability. And a lot of people who are in their 60s, let's say, who have mild disabilities or mild medical issues or difficulties, what would you say to somebody like that who's kind of like down and out? You know, you you have the you know the life experience of going through a huge, huge disability for the great most of your life, really, and now other people who are in their 60s maybe complain about minor things. What would you say to somebody like that?

SPEAKER_00 37:03

You know, we all face challenges in our life. Now, some are obviously bigger than others, but to each person, they're very real. They're very real. And a lot of times it takes a while to step back and find the best ways to deal with them. And it doesn't happen overnight, it can take a long time. But my advice is never give up, never stop trying to make the impossible possible. Just because something has not been done before doesn't mean you cannot do it now. So you've got to continue to decide working on it, be the challenge, be the change that people need to see. And with other people's help and support and encouragement, which hopefully you'll be lucky enough to have, there's an awful lot we all can do if we're working together. And every life has meaning and value. And I know there were times when I was first heard, and I had a counselor at Rusk say, don't let people treat you like you're an invalid. Think about what that word means. Separate it into two syllables, invalid. Well, she told me your life still has value, and it's up to you to live a life that has meaning and to show people that.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah, wow, wow, wow, wow. That's just so amazing. Now, um one question that I have for you, and I've got to read it here. It's um what kept you going? Let's say you're 30, you were 30 years old, you're not married, you don't have any kids yet, you're you know, you're working, you're at at that point, I don't know if you were you probably weren't an uh assistant district attorney yet. You were probably still doing uh uh vocational and rehabilitation counseling and things like that. Right. Yes. So what kept you going when you're 30, 35, knowing that at that point in time you probably were going to be disabled uh for the rest of your life? What kept you going?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Well, you know, as I indicated before, I had a lot of help from family and track, a tremendous amount of help. And six and a half years after my injury, uh after I did quite a bit of schooling, I was hired to work as a vocational rehabilitation counselor on Long Island at a facility called the Viscoty Center, named after its founder, Dr. Henry Viscoty Jr. And there I was providing counseling to other individuals with disabilities. And now, for the first time since my injury, I was in a position to help others. And what a difference that made in my life. To see I could still do something productive, not just for myself, but to help others. And I really felt that was so important to basically pay back for all the help I had received was to devote my life to helping others. And once I made that uh the purpose of my life, is to help others, that kept me going. And it got to the point where um my family and friends were doing so much to help me that I felt I'd be letting them down if I didn't do everything I could do to make something productive and useful for my life.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Wow. That's profound. So, and that's kind of what you've done throughout your whole life. Not only were you productive for society, you know, as an assistant district attorney, but in the rehab and the vocational counseling or counseling, but also in raising three kids and making sure that economically speaking they were going to be okay as well, and you did everything that you possibly could, despite everything that went on. Um so it's funny, your whole life is about not just overcoming overcoming adversity or things like that, it's about discovering a life that you didn't even know was possible. Tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Well, when I was injured, Norm, I didn't know of anybody else that I could look to for hope or inspiration. Again, this was probably more than 20 years before Christopher Reeves was injured. So I didn't know that it was even possible for somebody who used a wheelchair to go out in the community and do something useful or productive. Right. Uh and that was really difficult, you know, to think could I possibly be the first to do this? Are there others out there doing it? And it got to the point where I was thinking, you know, so many people were looking to me and congratulating me on what I've done about going back to school and working. Uh, but they told me that that was inspiring and motivating them to do more with their lives. And I started to think, you know, maybe I could become a role model for other individuals who were going through difficult times. And if the position that I found myself in and what I was doing with my life could someday help others, that also helped motivate me to try and do even more with my life.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Very, very interesting. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, one last question that I have for you. Let's say most of my listeners are in their 60s, and some of them might be in their 70s as well. And some of them might not have a purpose so much anymore. They've retired or about to retire, and they're kind of giving up their life's work, and they're kind of maybe drifting or trying to find their place in the world. What would you kind of recommend for them in order for them to have some sort of purpose? What kind of avenues should they pursue?

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Well, sometimes change can be good. And entering that next stage of your life can be very beneficial, not just for you, but for others. Because now you're in a position to help others and share your wisdom. Now that I'm retired, uh, as well as a few years before that, I became a member of the board of directors of the Viscarty Center that gave me the opportunity to function in my first job following my injury. I'm a member of the Cornell University Council, the school that I went back to before, you know, after my injury. I'm a member of the Suffolk County Rehabilitation Society. Even though I live in the next county, Nassau, I have a number of friends in the next county who asked me to be a Member of that society. And I'm doing my best to stay active and help others. And in addition to the book that I wrote, where I've, you know, made a number of trips talking about my book, as you can see today, I've been a guest on a lot of different podcasts. And I'm hoping that that reaches a lot of people to show them what somebody could still do in their life despite what challenges they face.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you certainly are an inspiration to people around you. You certainly have contributed tremendously to not only your family, but society and with uh people who are disabled and things like that. And I'm sure people listening to this podcast are going to be really, really inspired by your story. One question I have um, you know, part of your you know process of keeping you know depression at bay or getting, you know, being optimistic all of your life was that hopefully the medical establishment would find a way to provide a cure for spinal cord injuries. Are there any closer? Are they any closer now as opposed to 50 years ago when it happened? Or is there any hope in the future that somehow, some way, despite injuries of this sort, people would be able to maintain mobility and and be able to, you know, move and walk and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Absolutely. They are a lot closer. They're making tremendous strides. In fact, my Aunt Betty just sent me a current article about things they're doing in terms of uh spinal cord transplants in mice and rats that are making progress. There's progress with stem cell research and making progress. So there's a lot of research going on. There's a lot of hope out there for people. And I was always determined in my mind, someday that cure is gonna come. And I'm not just gonna sit back waiting for it to happen. I'm gonna make sure I still do a lot with my life until it happens. That is that I'm be ready to take advantage of it once that day comes.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

That is so, so special. And I'm hoping that people in their 60s or their 70s, or whoever is out there, listens to that message that just keep on moving and keep on going, and not just false hope, but hope that somehow things will get better and there will be a way to get out of any issue or any medical problems you might have.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

So you know it's it's a very real hope. Uh, just to tell you a little bit more about me, um, my mother unfortunately died when I was less than a month old.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Bought polio, and unfortunately it was fatal, and she died when I was less than a month old. Well, about five years after her death, they came out with different vaccines to help treat polio and to help prevent it in individuals. Right. So nobody knew back then that there'd be research just a few years later that could help, you know, combat that disease. Well, I feel the same way about spinal cord injuries and other types of disabilities or diseases. There's a lot of research going on. Someday there'll be a cure, hopefully sooner rather than later. And I'm determined not to just sit back and wait for it to happen. I'm determined to do something with my life until that eventual cure finally comes about. Wow, Ken, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

That is, I think we're gonna end that there because that is the way to for people to listen to that, hear it, and understand it, and and kind of like grow from it. That's so, so profound. So thank you. Thank you again.