Happy Pridesmas in July everyone! Rachel and Margie are taking it upon themselves to extend pride celebrations with some awesome LGBTQ romance novels! This week, Margie tells Rachel all about Orpheus Girl by Brynne Rebele-Henry. Get ready for some great discussion y'all!
Happy Pridesmas in July everyone! Rachel and Margie are taking it upon themselves to extend pride celebrations with some awesome LGBTQ romance novels! This week, Margie tells Rachel all about Orpheus Girl by Brynne Rebele-Henry. Get ready for some great discussion y'all!
Hello, and welcome to textual tension. I am your co host, Rachel, here to take you on a magical world through what we are calling prides miss in July, where we make up for the fact that we definitely didn't record pride books in time for actual Pride Month this year. But that's okay. We're doing it now. Because you know what, why can't we be prideful all year, we'll do pride books, whatever, we just happen to be also doing them now. So hey, welcome. This is textual tension if you're new. And if you're not new, also, welcome. We love you. Welcome back. And I am here today to give you a couple of announcements before we get into this particular episode. First, and quite possibly most important, we have a new patron, a new, beautiful, wonderful, magical patron. And that is, Steph, Steph, thank you so much for your support, you are great, we love you. I hope your everyday life is full of just all sorts of magical, wonderful things. And if you happen to be ESU, other beautiful listener happened to be interested in maybe reaching out and supporting us on Patreon as well. You can head on over to patreon.com/textual tension. Remember, you cannot search for us because we do adult content. And so you have to put that URL in but go check us out. There's all sorts of really cool bonus content over there. There are under the covers episodes was smitten stuff, there is bloopers, there are just all kinds of really fun things. Maybe we have some more stuff in the works. Who knows. And if you can't support us on Patreon right now, or maybe you're not interested in it. And that's totally fine. totally get it. But there are other ways that you could support us ways that don't involve spending money, which I get. And those ways are to head over to your favorite podcatcher app. And hey, give leave us a little bit of a rate and a review. That would be super cool. It really helps us get our name out to new people that and telling your friends about us. If you think we're pretty great and do really cool stuff. Hey, tell your friends that were pretty great and do cool stuff. We'd really appreciate that. And hey, if you let us know that you've done that, or that you've given us a review, we'll hit us up and we'll send you some stickers but you got to tell us because we can't read your mind. Hey, and speaking of podcast recommendations and take it away.
Unknown:Hey everybody. Its Kelly, host of boobies and newbies part of the frolic Podcast Network. Every episode, I invite a romance reading newbie, to read and review their very first romance novel alongside me, a self proclaimed romance novel addict. We're talking everything from bisexual pegging. We need more pegging on TV, we need it in books, we need it in real life. We need to talk about it to the deepest intricacies of relationships. It really is like we're fighting for us. Like we're let's fight. We cover it all. Find in follow us on social media at boobies podcast and catch up on previous episodes on your favorite podcast streaming platform. And a
Rachel:Mac, where else can you find us on the interwebs? You might ask? Well, that would be all of our social needs. On the Twitter and Instagram and Facebook, and all that is textual tension pod across the board and our website, which is sexual tension pod.com. And speaking of that website, and us being a little late to pride this year, we would love to do pride books all year round, because well, we have reason to be prideful. So if you guys have any recommendations specifically, I mean, hey, hit us up with some of them their LGBTQ plus books, hit us up on our website, we have a contact us page, we would love to hear from you, we really would. This book in particular for today's episode was one that we ended up finding on Goodreads but it would be even better if we could read something that you are beautiful listeners recommended. Just a couple more things. So first, we had an idea and we want to know what you guys think about it. And this is going to be the fastest way to get that information out to the most number of people. So we have all sorts of books on my bookshelf here in the the co host Rachel space that we have done for the podcast that were either completely ridiculous or an absolute blast and we want to spread the love to you guys so if you guys would be interested in maybe doing some giveaways or you know any anything like that as far as like you guys getting to get some of those books, let us know you think about that. We had that idea. We think it's pretty cool, and we would love to hear your guys's thoughts. And finally, if you are new here or I suppose if you're returning this episode is just a tiny bit different which is to say it's a little bit shorter on the summary this time around, but we have a ton of discussions episode. So this is your first experience with textual tension. You know, listen to this episode is amazing. We love it. It was so much fun and we talked about some really cool stuff. But check out some of our other episodes too. We we do we review a wide variety of literature And we have a really fun time doing it. So I say we go ahead and I'll shut up now and we can well shut up temporarily and let Margie jump in as well. And we'll get stuck into this book. This particular book does have one trigger that Margie forgot about, bless her, and that triggers suicide. So just a heads up about that. But we have some amazing discussion and I hope you guys really enjoy it. I had a lot of fun with this book. It really is a good book. So without further ado, here is episode 48. Way down we go. Oh, tearing me apart from Hello, and welcome
Margie:to textual tension. Thanks for that. The podcast that unpacks the bananas world of romance novels. How do we start this? Close. Let's try it again. Okay, wait, what do we actually say hello,
Rachel:and welcome to textual tension. love hate relationship.
Margie:Oh, okay, keeping that first part in, please do. Hello, and welcome to textual tension, a love hate relationship with romance novels. I'm your co host margene. Yeah, I'm your co host Rachel. Every other week one of us reads a Roman romance novel, and then summarizes it for the other unsuspecting co host this week. That co host is me, Rachel. And together we unpack what the fuck just happened.
Rachel:Happy Pride in July. Yeah. prior to
Margie:July. Yeah, we are really good at just being like, Wait, we had to record this before pride. And then we forget. Oops. Oops, we did it again. We're we're really good at that. So but we are we are full of pride now.
Rachel:Margie, you. You said good. I think you miss pronounced dumpster fires of humans. So dumb asses. Oh,
Margie:you're right. You're right
Rachel:there. I mean, but so everyone knows. We did thoroughly celebrate. We
Margie:celebrate Pride. It's just that every time pride comes around, like I said, we forget that we have to record before pride in order for it to you know, release on Pride. Its Pride
Rachel:Month. I should read an awesome gay romance novel. Finished before right?
Margie:So like, like major corporations out there. We are still prideful. 365 days of the year. I mean, it's true. Yeah. 100% Happy Pride.
Rachel:I have an awesome flag. So
Margie:that means you do so that means that I have a gay romance novel. Yes. And this time around. So last year I did the soldier scoundrels. So good. was so good.
Rachel:So good. My bookshelf over there. Yeah, it's really
Margie:good. But and it was so this year. I was like, oh, no, we got to get some lesbians in here. Hell yes. Some lesbians. Yeah, we really? Yeah. Got me to some lesbians. But it was funny. So I'm going to show you the book in a second, but I just have a little commentary on the fact that and our queer listeners can tell me if this is truly the case. I couldn't find anything that was really like smutty lesbian romance novel interesting. I couldn't find anything that was like really like yeah, you see like a lot of books that are like the soldier scoundrel. Two dudes like getting hot with ABS and all that shit on the cover. But I couldn't find one that was like to lady's like anything that was really really somebody
Rachel:that is so interesting, similar because like, I know Lady on lady action is incredibly popular in porn, right? Yeah, but not necessarily interesting. Very and maybe we're just not looking in the right spot. And
Margie:yeah, that was true. And that's that's the disclaimer I definitely want to make is I you know, I don't look for this stuff usually. So I probably was not looking in the right place. But I did look on Goodreads for a little while and I did find something it's just not and it's still a romance novel. It's just probably not what you're expecting but it is a really good book and it's very popular right now. So I just did or the one I just read okay, right to
Rachel:hit me we move along hover Orpheus girl, okay.
Margie:Hmm. All right. I
Rachel:actually really like this cover. I know it's the first artists to perspect Yeah, so Okay, Orpheus girl. So the title is very much larger than the person's title by Brynn rebel Henry? Yes. Yeah. Um, so it is sorry Orpheus girl a novel. So it has it's a very like like sketchy ink kind of kind of artwork on the front with a gradient looks like a sunset II or maybe sunrise. It's kind
Margie:of like to try and transplant colors which doesn't have anything to do with the novel but a little bit yeah,
Rachel:get the pink on top. Yeah, on the bottom like all that dealio um, and it is to women holding hands one in a very cute dress and one in a very cute crop top and jeans. And the kind of walking into like what looks like maybe a little bit of a desert II scene with with a beach beach thing? Yeah, you know the setting. So yeah, there's like a little cabin in the background or houses or whatever? Yeah, um, power lines, all that kind of stuff. It's a really cool cover.
Margie:It is. And it's cute. Yeah, yeah.
Rachel:And it doesn't have Do you think maybe it's because they don't want to show like half naked women on covers maybe or
Margie:No, I think that that's more because they're both in high school. Oh, yeah, they're very young.
Rachel:Okay, well, I mean like as far as like so for instance the soldier scoundrel, right? It was two dudes without shirts on Yeah, like looking seemingly at each other and I don't You're right. I don't know if I've ever seen that for right.
Margie:Exactly. For two women mob dude listeners if you have one if you have one lease, I would read the shit out of that. Yes, please send it to us we
Rachel:don't care it's not like you don't have to buy the book for us. We will right purchase it
Margie:right the reasons why the Well I think one of the biggest reasons why our podcast tends to be so heteronormative meaning that like heterosexual relationships is that we just don't find there's not it's not hard to find, well, if you're not but we we when we go into like bookstores or we go on our phones when we find books, there's just a plethora of hetero normative content it's so we if you guys know of stuff, please send it to us because we will read it we don't care if it's pride. Okay,
Rachel:and I mean, I'm bisexual shit so I love this stuff. I just had like I don't know if I'm going to like Half Price Books. There are like two entire aisles of heteronormative romance so
Margie:many it's just it's so many so many there. So many so many. Yeah, half of its Nora Roberts. Just want to make that clear. All right. Here's the
Rachel:sweet Okay, abandoned by a single mother she never knew. 16 year old Raya obsessed with ancient myths, lives with her grandmother in a small conservative Texas town. For years Raya has been forced to hide her feelings her best friend and true love Sarah, when the two are outed, they're sent to friendly Savior Oh god. Educational camp meant to fix quote unquote, them and make them heterosexual. Upon arrival Raya vows to assume the mythic role of Orpheus to escape friendly saviors. And to return to the world of the living with her love only becoming more determined after she Sarah and friendly saviors other teen residents are subjected to abusive, quote unquote treatments by the staff. I hate it. Not for bad reasons. I hate it level down for bad reasons, but like not not in the normal. This is like a problematic because the relationship is problematic, right? But it's problematic. Right?
Margie:Right. Right. All right. Trigger warning. Homophobia, God Yeah, yeah. Conversion therapy, guys. We're torture. Oh, no. Yeah,
Rachel:we're recording this halfway through because we forgot and we've already gotten into part of it. Yeah.
Margie:Upset. Homophobic homophobic slurs. It's another one. Yeah, yeah. Shower. Yeah, I know. I know. It's really gross. So okay. Yeah. I'm the child is here, everyone. Betsy, Betsy. she is and she's crazy. Today. Your beans are all over the place. Yeah, her ions are all over the place.
Rachel:That's interesting, because the story of Orpheus doesn't have a happy ending.
Margie:I actually see you I expect you to be the expert on that. Yes. I don't know the myth. I love
Rachel:Greek mythology. Yes, I know you do. And so Orpheus and Eurydice is my favorite Greek myth.
Margie:And then this book, they, the author actually breaks it down to the above world underworld. Yeah, at different sections of the of the book. And one thing I didn't like is that at the end of the book, she has a glossary of all the characters in it. But she's like, this character is Orpheus. And it's like, I feel like we could have figured that out. Or like, yeah, come to our own conclusions for that.
Rachel:I understand how some people feel like, what did the red curtain symbolize is like, gratuitous, like, you know, symbolism, symbolism, reading way too, into what an author says, but also, I don't know, I feel like you don't have to spell it
Margie:out. But you don't need to smell that that much there. SparkNotes. You know, this would actually be like, four if you this would be a good book for kids to read in, like, seventh eighth grade, right?
Rachel:This is, like on the more literature sighs Oh, yeah. Which is neat. I don't know if we've really done.
Margie:No, we have not we have not. And apparently this is hard. This is the author's first novel, but I did read that she's actually a poet, a famous poet. So I love Yeah, so All right, we got our characters. Poetry, I'm going through this really our character because it's told in the perspective of Raya who is a 15 year old, burgeoning, bargaining, and earning, burgeoning, I don't know, lesbian living in Texas in a very straight Christian heteronormative community.
Rachel:I feel like I need a shower. Do this and I already have an audience
Margie:today totally. She lives with her grandmother whom she calls Grammy but they're not that close. They're, it's they've just never been particularly close. Raised mother basically ran away from them both when, when when Ray his mother was basically maybe 20. And Raya was just a baby. And she went in, like, moved to LA and ended up on a soap opera about the Greek myths. Yeah, yeah. So that's why Raya is so obsessed with the Greek mess, and she hasn't seen or heard from her mother since then. Oh, yeah. And neither is a grandmother. So which is so strange, like, yeah, you know, right. So and this is, and you can tell me this relates to the myth, but Ray also has scars on her back that look, they're kind of like, I think near her shoulder blades. But if you if you look at them, she looks at them as like, somebody cut off her wings. Right. And they were when she was a baby, she had vertebrae that were like out of okay, yeah, but it's like a big part of like, right, I think it's the author trying to manifest this difference that she feels inside her coming out on the outside, okay. And that her because of that difference, she feels like a lot of her freedom. So taking, like, that's just what I'm getting from it. Oh, yeah. Um, and
Rachel:let's see, and I want to answer as in the versions that I've heard no, but I am by no means a comprehensive expert.
Margie:I know that she has dark curly black hair. But that's all I remember what she really looks like. That's just not what the author does. And then there Sarah is literally one that is afraid, his best friend to girlfriend. So those are two big characters, right? And they're live they're like in their in high school together, and they've been best friends forever and ever and ever. And it really the story begins by introducing Raya who's trying very hard to fit into our straight community. There's a lot of that where she's trying to be straight. She's working really hard to be straight.
Rachel:Am I going to be sad at the end? No, you're
Margie:not going to be sad. Okay, good. Yeah. Um, she, she says that, from the time she was eight years old. She knew she was different from other girls. She just didn't know why. There's a lot of scenes of her putting on makeup and wearing certain clothes to try to fit in more. Oh, said she is so concerned. But now, she has thought, but now she's getting older and honestly, hornier like,
Rachel:I mean, yeah, she's weird.
Margie:She's going into puberty. You know, she's, you know, at least midway through puberty, she's kissed a girl or two, but it's been nothing serious. But she knows that it's only a matter of time before the rest of the world figures out that she's queer. And that would be a no good very bad thing. Like it's she's knows that it's inevitable. But it's also kind of like she's Wait, she's to her is not a very good analogy. But to her it feels like our heads on the good team. And she's waiting for that blade to drop with where she lives. Yeah, I could see Ryan and one of her former friends who was also friends with Sarah. They were kind of like a three group Rosie saw Sarah kiss Raya one day, and Sarah told Raya that she was only quote unquote practicing for a boy that she liked
Unknown:a little lesbians
Rachel:Well, I mean, we all know that being gay isn't a thing, right? You're just waiting for the perfect, man. Yeah, right
Margie:did not right dick. Yeah. happens to be a vagina. Okay. All the best ones. So and what there was another day where Sarah and Raya watched The L Word. And when Sarah saw two women kissing, she said, beautiful under her breath and held hair, raise hair again for a second. But it's really cute. Because Raya is like, no, but we're not gay, like. And so denial. Well, it's not necessarily denial. I think it's also it's more like this. It's more that I don't think that Raya is ready to face it when that happened. And so she's kind of like, no, Sarah can't be gay. I'm gay. But Sarah can be, you know, so honestly, though, they're adorable. And I should these two awkward teenage lesbians already, they're just so awkward. They're so cute. But after that first kiss, Sara or Raya kind of keeps her distance from Sarah because she's like, I don't want the world to figure out that we're queer. Right? But Sarah confronts her and says, We didn't do anything wrong. We were just pretending like, and I think that Raya is in her kitchen. And Sarah is there Sarah is like we didn't do anything wrong. We're just pretending and right when Ray his grandmother walks in the door, she kisses Raya.
Rachel:Did she know the grandmother was coming in the door?
Margie:That's, I don't know. I don't I don't think so. Okay, I think it was just it
Rachel:makes it way better. So cuz no, don't make Someone come out if they're not ready to. So Grammy
Margie:is super, super Christian and super homophobic. So and so like Raya runs after Sarah and they talk for like a second or something but then she comes back to the house and she can tell that her grandma's upset because like she's never seen her grandmother smoke before she's just sitting there smoking in the kitchen. So Rael lies to her gives the same story that's Sarah wanted to practice for a boy. But she can kind of tell her that her grandmother doesn't believe her. It's kind of like you can I guess this is like to credit the author you can tell the grandmas just like, doesn't want to believe in herself. Right? A lot of that. So later, a little less. So later, Sarah comes back and tells Raya I wasn't, so quote, I wasn't pretending. Are you like me? And Sarah points at the space between them as if it holds the gayness it's just so cute. Oh, no. Babies.
Rachel:This is like, such a different level of relationship than we usually get. I know. Wonderful. It's
Margie:nice to have a teenage relationship. That's healthy, because I think we have heard right, weird when we did that one like the purple flower, our flower. Yes. This was called a healthy and this book is just about two people who are trying to find themselves and like discovering their sexuality. And I think that whether you're straight or gay, like that's relatable to everybody. And yeah, it doesn't
Rachel:matter. Yeah, it's almost like we're all humans, no matter what sort of genitalia we prefer, if any, if any. Yeah. Weird. Weird.
Margie:So weird. Okay, so then Raya says, Yeah, I'm gay. And they make out and Sarah spends the night. And they're like holding each other in the bed. Ah, it's really sweet. So we mentioned it's really sweet, but it's also really sad because the world has made them afraid of who they truly are. So it was really interesting and eye opening for me to read that perspective, because I am luckily a system cisgender bisexual female, who has really never felt the need to hide all that much. Some parts of myself. Yes. But other parts No. Right. So have like, it was just really interesting. Yeah. So So in school, Raya. And Sarah tried to keep the relationship as secret as possible. But cracks are appearing on the facade. People are paying them more attention than they used to. And so they know that people are starting to suspect that something's up. So one day Ray is hooking up with Sarah at her house, and Sarah, his brother's friend arresto catches riot and Sarah and the act, and he's kind of like, oh, okay, you're lesbians. So he's cool with it know that he's not. So they're both freaked out because he doesn't really say what he's gonna do. He just now knows. But they both like Sarah and Ray are like, let's just keep it cool. And see if he tells anyone. Um, the next time they're at school, they're actually invited to a party by another girl in our class. They're nervous but they both gotta go cuz they're like we can't you know, we still want to have these experiences right? Guess who's there? It's arrest out and he tells everyone at the party that they're lesbians Hey, teenagers are shitty teenagers are really really really shitty. Don't out your friends.
Rachel:Understand the whole like high schools the best days of your life No,
Margie:no. Oh my god. No,
Rachel:I'm so happy to get high school.
Margie:I enjoyed my high school experience. I would never relive it which is a very strange thing. Yeah, that's about where I'm at. Yeah, like I would never I never want to go back
Rachel:and to be fair, I only enjoyed part of it right? Courage was so much better
Margie:well it's like every time I you know ever even college I'm like no, I don't want to go back No, thank you.
Rachel:I would do classes again but that's pretty much what I did most of the time. I was not a partying social butterfly as it were. But I found you I found my token extrovert friend series
Margie:well I'm and I'm barely an extrovert So okay, so it all I can handle have extra right. So now they've been outed. They go to school the next day and see that dike and fag have been written on their lockers. There's a great moment though where Rosie goes up to Raya and like under her breath says fag and Raya lashes back with fuck you have a dike
Rachel:is actually talking with my neighbors about that the other day about like, how when you own a, like a slur. Yeah, like it's empowering, right? Like, they're like Hell yeah, we call each other dice all the time. But if someone else said it to me, and like meant it offensively, yeah, that would be a problem. Right? Well,
Margie:so we call each other bitch all the time. I feel like well, you Horror constantly. I call you 11 Stealing or stealing whore
Rachel:blast from the past.
Margie:All right? So Arista keeps being a douche canoe. And it doesn't take long before Sarah's parents find out about Raya and Sarah, and Sarah's parents tell Ray his grandmother about them. Ray also gets told by somebody else, a friend or somebody out and this happens, uh oh, this happens during church, by the way. Yeah. Um, so Ray gets told by a girl in the parking lot of the church that Sarah has been sent to gay conversion therapy. Yeah, yeah. A re Atox. Her grandmother, it doesn't go well. Her grandmother's basically like, I'm not raising a lesbian. You're going to the gay conversion camps to Yeah, the next day, right? I think even maybe that day, Raya is sent to the camp her grandmother basically drops her off without a backward glance. She's a guy now I know. I
Rachel:hate this is so okay. So this is obviously it listeners a little bit more of a serious episode. More serious book. But like, I find it really interesting because right now, I feel like I want to shower. I feel disgusting. This is awful. It's horrible. And that's good. Because I should feel uncomfortable because it's a shitty thing that happened and not Oh, no happened. Happens. You're sorry. Yeah. 100% like this is fiction, quote, unquote. But it's not really fiction. Like this happens and it should make you uncomfortable. Alright, so it ain't cool. Motherfuckers
Margie:guess who got sent sent to the same camp? Oh, yay, Sarah. Good. Guess he's booking with Sarah. I was like, honestly, they didn't check this. Or have the parents didn't tell them. Hey, guess what our daughters were lesbians together, you know what I should separate them not about
Rachel:them not doing
Margie:so let's just be clear about this quote unquote, Camp friendly saviors. It's not a camp.
Rachel:It's not friendly.
Margie:It's not friendly. It's not a treatment facility. It's basically a place to try to torture the gay out of you or the gay. The gay away. let's also be clear, you cannot become an gay. Yeah, it's that's it's it's impossible. You cannot pray the gay away.
Rachel:Margie. Oh, if you're saying that and that means I can't make other people gay. Which means we can't infect the masses.
Margie:But that was the Gay Agenda. Oh, wow. Okay, so according to UCLA, Williams Institute, more than 700,000 people in the United States or maybe it's just a 700,000 people, I should look that up. People have been subjected to either way, either whether it's the United States or worldwide that is a fuck ton of people I guess is us. I'm guessing UCLA Williams Institute, more than 700,000 people have been subjected to conversion therapy, and 80,000 are expected to go through it in upcoming years. According to the San Francisco State University, teenagers who experienced conversion therapy were six times more likely to develop depression, eight times more likely to have attempted suicide as compared to youth who come from accepting, affirming, affirming, family and caregivers. Yeah, so actually, and I wanted to tell you guys for our blog post, we are having a guest come on and talk to us about gay conversion therapy because neither me nor Rachel have experienced it. And it is kind of like a bonus episode with an interview from Ross Murray. He is the senior director of education and training at the glad Media Institute. freakin awesome.
Rachel:I know. That's amazing.
Margie:I was so excited. I just told Rachel about this. I'm so excited to talk to him. I know it's gonna be really interesting. And he seems like a really nice guy. So I'll go a little I'll go more in depth about him. And that'll come out in the next like week or so. Yeah, yeah.
Rachel:Keep your eyes peeled
Margie:on the social means and on our website. Okay. Okay, so
Rachel:back to the depressing cuz I've been making fart jokes throughout all this.
Margie:Jokes just make I will make jokes. Okay, do my best. So she's introduced to hide when she arrives at the camp who says that Jesus brought him out of the path of sin.
Rachel:Good for Jesus.
Margie:No, not good. I don't know who's talking to her. But in a Jesus. Jesus says say that. She's also introduced to char, a woman who is quote unquote, a doctor. But the thing she does to kids definitely break the Hippocratic Oath. Yeah, yeah. So at first, the therapy is really just sitting with the doctor char and have her try to talk the gay out of you. Like you can be persuaded to not be gay. Hey,
Rachel:have you tried you fight? I know sometimes. Do you struggle with depression? Have you tried just not? I know sometimes you think about pussy Have you tried not?
Margie:Oh God. Like how how and we'll so in both char and hide though are people who are like, how do I explain this? No, they're both people who want no well yes cut muffins. Yes. Well, there are people who have success quote unquote are successful after the program like they've gone through the program themselves and they are quote, they're not gay anymore.
Rachel:There's you can't see my face, but it is what I would if I were of the writing persuasion call mild.
Margie:Yeah, it's just Well, it does. It's um, it's just sad for those two people, but especially sad for char is really kind of a creepy character. She you can tell she's been through some.
Rachel:And that's, and that's the problem is like, if they really are products of the system, like, what's going on with them? What happened to them
Margie:like that? Catch them, there are people who truly, you know, would fall through the cracks. It's yeah, so and I don't understand. So one thing that one thing they say at these camps, these quote unquote, treatment facilities is that, you know, it's a treatment, but I'm like, none of these things that you're doing to these kids are verified by doctors, by sources by medical journals, all that stuff. So and the things the medical journals are telling us that no, you can't get rid of the gay so gay was beside of them all along. They believe in it. And you have to to
Rachel:well, and that's the thing is like you are there quote unquote, treatments for a non existent problem. Right, right. It's
Margie:not a problem. It's not a problem. It's not it's not Yeah, it's not an illness. Right. Right. Right. Oh, and I also want to say that like Jesus hate, there's a lot of talk of Jesus hating them for being gay. And let's just like you and your love your neighbor bullshit. Yeah. So let's just be clear, Jesus loves everyone. No exceptions. He just does. He's cool like that. That's true Christianity. He likes everybody. He doesn't. That's it. Being gay isn't a sin. No. Yeah. I just want to be so obtuse here and be like, so
Rachel:for listeners. I am. What Margie is Catholic. I am a godless heathen. Yeah, so we have both sides. Although to be fair, gobble season came from a very religious upbringing and from the church. So yeah, Jesus don't play like that homes. Right? Jesus is
Margie:cool, right? Jesus. He was so chill. He was so chill.
Rachel:He was down with the horse in the tech you know why I'm doing Shug Jesus, but she says
Margie:well, I mean, like also though, Jesus could like was a rebel. Sure, you know, anyway, we could get to Jesus all day long. I mean, we could but why Yeah, exactly. So Raya and Sarah like the first night there they attempt escape, but like, creepily enough, chars just sitting out there on the porch smoking and she stays up all night. She's super creepy, just watching.
Rachel:Like the smoking if we are going to do the red curtain symbolizes what style thing I feel like the smoking is really a demonic sort of reference.
Margie:I think well, so I think that hide is like, they're in the underworld. So I think that hide is supposed to be like Cerberus. And I don't know, I don't remember who she's supposed to be. But they're both like underworld gods.
Rachel:Karen or something.
Margie:Maybe so after it. So they do a second attempt to escape with another kid named Leon. And he's super cool. little gay boy, super flamboyant. Russian. Also, baby. So he's just this like, he dances with Raya just for fun. He's like he's trying to do. I'm sexy for my shirt with a Russia backs.
Rachel:Oh my god. Adorable.
Margie:I shouldn't say trying. He's doing it, but it's just adorable. Um, so he ended up
Rachel:in Texas. His dad
Margie:is from New York. Okay, so he technically lives with his dad. But I think that is like his mom sent him over to his dad or something. And his dad sent them to be on GAID. Yeah, I know. I know. Well, so and I think that there is reference in the book that it sounds like the RIAA says it sounds like Leon's dad isn't a bad person. He's just really misguided. So he had the dad had a lot of reservations about sending a son there. And I think that there was a will. Right. And I think there was the expectation that like if this doesn't work, okay, you know, but I know it's still not okay. Yeah, okay. Terrific, right. It's all horrific. It's just, you know, it's like it's better at least you still love your child and worry about them.
Rachel:Guess who deals with the uncomfortable in terrible situations with you?
Margie:So I'm the second attempt. They actually steal a truck. Hell yeah. Which is really cool. Shopping. Get it motherfucker, we're gonna go be gay.
Rachel:Sorry, get a nerd we're gonna go be lesbian,
Margie:lesbian. So it's I think it's at least Leon, Sara and Raya. And that might be one other person Michael might be in the car too, and he's a transgender boy. Okay, um, but a deer hops in front of the truck as they're leaving, and they end up going into a ditch. Luckily, they all end up okay. But they're punished by making the treatments even worse. So before it was just like therapy, yeah, and they would be so like, before it was therapy in group settings in which are one on one trying to talk the gay out of you. And then they would basically just exhaust them. So they would make them carry heavy rocks and high heat across the yard, you know, where else they used to do that, listeners? Concentration camps, just so you know, you know? And then char the quote unquote, doctor, it's now the second phase begins electric shock therapy on these kids. Yeah, yeah. They show them pictures of their preferred gender. And when they get aroused, they shock the fuck out of them. Yeah, it's not fine. Not even close to mine. It honestly gets to the point where the author describes it to where you feel like they're just shocking all the feeling out of them. The Raya describes feeling empty loss, like she's feeling out of her own body. That is she can't reconnect to reality. Yeah. So here's the thing about that, though, is that I did a little bit of research, we're gonna have that interview here in a little bit. I know that there were treatments in the past a long time ago, a while back where they would do things like that where they would like, right. It's it's not it's like the evil part of cognitive behavioral therapy, right? Where like, you get a little bit of pain when you're aroused. Right. It's,
Rachel:it's not it's not negative reinforcement, right? Negative reinforcement? Negative enforced?
Margie:It's, yeah, but um, so I don't know, if they still do electric shock therapy. The
Rachel:one thing I do now is that for severe cases of mental health issues, electric shock therapy is Yeah,
Margie:I've heard that it works really well. With depression. Actually, I watched a documentary where they would sedate patients and then give them very subtle shocks, very minor shocks. And it really actually did help them with their depression. However, they were sedated. I doubt that they were at the high level that whatever we're in a
Rachel:quote unquote, camp in the middle of bumfuck. Nowhere Texas, right with a sham Deiter.
Margie:So and this, so this is all happening in the shock amounts every day are going up every day, to the point where they get shocked, like, over 10 times a day. Yeah. Okay. So and this certain people can die in fires. Yeah, these people can die in fires. What do you mean? Oh
Rachel:are precious and must be protected at all costs?
Margie:Yes. And this whole time, all right, I can think about is Sarah, who's going through the same treatment, God bless her, really, she's just thinking about her girlfriend the whole time. During their torture, they're so focused on just surviving it that in a way, they kind of lose sight of each other. Right. And they also there's they've separated the girls, obviously. So finally, however, after reading about kids being tortured for pages, and pages,
Rachel:so you've had a really rough week has that.
Margie:Listeners, I've had some severe anxiety this week, as well. This is not a fire,
Rachel:or making list of things that would affect your mental health. I
Margie:think this is Yeah, well, we'll get into that later. This is terrible. Finally, however, after all of that, the worst happens a transgender boy named Michael attempts suicide.
Rachel:Yeah, suicides trigger.
Margie:He has sued.
Rachel:Margie Goddamnit margin,
Margie:shit, ah, trigger warnings, all of them. Okay, so this prompts the authorities to come and investigate. That's good. Finally, in a terrible way. Right. It also gives the kids an opening and opportunity. Heidi gets taken to the police station. So he was kind of one of the guard dogs, right? Yeah. First questioning and so they really only need to worry about char and char does something amazing. She lets the kids go. So if they want to leave, she says like, Just get the fuck out of here. And it's really kind it's a sad bit. She gives Sarah Ray and Sarah the truck that they tried to escape in earlier she gives her gives them the keys.
Rachel:Can I throw this out there? I want to put my my hat in the ring and say that she is Hades. She might be okay. Yeah, there's that list.
Margie:There is that list in the back. So maybe you should start guessing I have my Kindle with me so we can check. Yeah, I guess she is Hades. Yeah. So and then During this book char I think I mentioned before, she's very tragic, very misguided. She actually went through the same program to kick the guy out of her. And only now is she realizing that wasn't something to be fixed. Yeah. And so she's like, and she's in, there's a really sad part where she's like, I didn't want to face that you guys might be right, because it means if that's the case, then it means that I've lost her for good. Which is like, oh, so
Rachel:Oh, if we are guessing, the one asshole kid that told everyone Yeah, or so I feel like that is I can't remember the dude's name. But so the reason you're EDC is sent to maybe the end of the coverage is me telling that story telling. That's a great idea that's perfect to go in front of the covers will tell the myth Yeah, but in the myth, there is a guy who
Margie:goes to make the myth Geyer
Rachel:100% Perfect. Um, that goes after your DC. Okay. And she she runs away and has bitten by a snake in the process of running away because no good very bad days. Yeah. So I bet he is the dude that goes after her. Okay, and like causes her to go to the underworld. Oh, good. That's my guess. Okay.
Margie:So some Raya and Sarah talk to Leone late Leon Leon, I don't know which one it is. But um, he's going back to New York. His dad is picking them up good. His dad's picking him up. It sounds like you know, it sounds like something some sort of bridge has been crossed there. And Leon tells them come to New York, I will take care of you. I will make sure that you will have a place to stay. We're family now. Yeah, I know. I know. And so because Ryan calls her grandmother and her grandmother's like, I'm not raising a lesbian. I know. I know. So sad. So um, so she never said that's what happens Raya and Sara get into the track together, and they leave the underworld. Yeah, you're smiling. And I will say this the kid, Michael. He's still breathing when they so he doesn't die. It does not die. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So um, wow. Feelings. Was that it? That was it. Holy shit. Oh, it was a very short book. Yeah. That's like we have so much more time for discussion. So happy. I know we do. And there's a lot of disgust. Yeah, so much.
Rachel:Yeah. So I thought it was really really interesting. This is we need to make a scale. It's it's the show alter Austin scale. It is the scale of smut versus literature in the show. Yeah. The Austin show alter scale with Gina show. Alteryx. On one. Jane Austen on the other. Oh, no.
Margie:J That's wonderful.
Rachel:Yeah, exactly. So you know, yeah, um, this leans heavily towards j to the Austin side of the scale, like, this is very more much in the literature. Like, right. So full disclosure listeners. Usually, when I'm selecting books for the podcast, I avoid the Austin side of the scale, because I know it right. You know, right. I know what's up. But like, it's fun to talk about the Austin side of the scale, because it's so interesting. Like, there's so much there. I just don't usually to be fair to think about going to that side, right. And
Margie:it also, but I also was not given an opportunity. I mean, in the real world. What I what I just realized now, I don't know why I didn't do it before is I should have just asked my gay friends. Hey, do you know any gay lesbian romance novels? I could read? But I didn't. I just went?
Rachel:Well, if it helps. For our next episode, I have a recommendation recommendation from one of our beautiful LGBTQ friends. And I'm gonna read that one. Yay. Yep. So we have another one coming up for next time. And from what I understand, it's wholesome as heck.
Margie:Oh, yeah. Again, heck and wholesome. I can also.
Rachel:Yeah, I just think it's interesting because we don't delve into that side of it. And this was like, a really interesting and deep and admittedly uncomfortable, but I think right, and I was really important. It was a different problematic,
Margie:right? Well, I
Rachel:see. This is
Margie:gonna sound really funny, but like, This book made me feel less gay. Because which is funny, because I never I didn't I've never had the feelings that this character has for Sarah for another woman. So I was like, Ooh, interesting. Just like, right. I mean, not in a bad way. I still feel like I'm bisexual. It's just like, I don't I didn't share her perspective. And I think that what that means for me is that I have not, I have been disillusioned with heteronormative culture, just like a water like just like a waterfall. And just a tiny trickle of the rainbow gay. That says upsetting.
Rachel:It's going to be more rainbows, right?
Margie:I love like, yeah. Well,
Rachel:that's I think that's something that's really difficult, at least from like, our perspective is we are both hella bisexual. But we both also come from like backgrounds where it's like we surround ourselves with people that are super fine with it. And don't give a shit and like, then share our beliefs and ideals and everything. So we don't I personally, I've never really had that level of like persecution. Mm hmm. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the world, right doesn't mean you don't need to be cognizant of it and be supportive of those who have and so it's like,
Margie:right. Well, that gets even into like, what's going on right now with Black Lives Matter? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. need to be cognizant of oh, wait, hold off, isn't lifted up to this level in our society because of certain ideas.
Rachel:We need to avoid the fingers in your slot law. It's all argument which is well, it's not happening to me, so therefore, it's not happening. Right, right. Yeah, man. That is an upsetting like, how can you imagine living with that level of not having object permanence like nighttime? Not nighttime right now? Oh, it must never be nighttime.
Margie:Never be night ever. Ever. That's just awful. Yeah.
Rachel:I mean, I don't have to eat food right now.
Margie:So therefore probably stay alive forever forever without food feeding myself right? Yeah, right. Right. Right. It's, it's the
Rachel:fucking worst. I really want to try to figure out this. So do you want to get my Kindle? Yeah, so I want to try to guess so obviously we have or Orpheus and your DC mm with Sarah and Raya Raya, I think that the dude that told everyone is the guy that goes after your DC in the myth that he's he's a nib who sees your DC on her wedding day and is like that hot pizza ass and goes after which is great. And then I think that care. What was the chicks name the doctor lady. Oh, char Yeah. Char. Um, I think that she's Hades. Hmm. Um, I like the idea of the energy being Cerberus, but I feel like maybe also potentially Persephone. I don't know what we got.
Margie:Alright, so um, obviously Raya is Orpheus, Sara's your, your your EDC, your DC I'm a Hristo is Eris status a minor God often credited with the discovery of beekeeping I think that's the guy okay. Uh,
Rachel:okay, so no face love the beautiful oak and in theory DC and the charm of his music when our heart but on the day of their wedding the very day she was being pursued by air status.
Margie:Okay, boom. Alright, nice one. Hey, thanks, Greg. You almost got it. Right. Hi, there was actually Hades the God of the dead when King of the Underworld. Yeah, okay. I think he's in charge. But char is the doctor right who was char then? Char was char represents both chair on and Cerberus. Okay, so the gatekeepers gatekeepers. Well, and that makes sense too. Because chars Karen Karen Yeah. Karen, Karen, Karen, Karen fucking Karen Jesus.
Rachel:I could be totally wrong, but i
Margie:What is it so? Because she's the one who's opening the door for
Rachel:Emily right up all that stuff? Yeah.
Margie:Let's see if there's any Leon. The story on a huntsman and Greek mythology. Ryan
Rachel:Orion. That's interesting, because Orion has some some interesting, like mythology, because he's the hunter. Mm hmm. Um, hey, I'm thinking this under the covers is just gonna be Rachel's mythology corner.
Margie:Stories. Yeah, that's
Rachel:probably what's gonna be. That's so interesting. I would not have pegged him for that.
Margie:But here's the thing is that I'm giving you a very, very brief right right.
Rachel:Well, I'm so inspired right? I'm right. I get very serious. Oprah worth of eyes for this. Where it's like the more modern retelling of the math, you know, Oprah there were no such it's as Favorite movie of all time. But I get like that kind of vibes. What's that modern retelling? But this was like a good book. It was good.
Margie:It was there was a little bit so um, for critiquing I would say right sometimes some of the writing feels a little just vanilla. It was just kind of like
Rachel:okay, which is strange. I I find it interesting. That's a different type of problematic than we're used to. Yes, we're used to the relationships being problematic. This is this is probably yay it's the one really
Margie:the Bad Place quick
Rachel:like the darkest timeline quick. Let's rate the world. The damn world and let's get into writing sorry, I really enjoyed this one actually, like I it made me my skin crawl. But I think again in like a mildly good way and they should make you your skin.
Margie:We learned something. Exactly. Yeah. And um, okay, ask me the questions. Hey,
Rachel:what did you think of our leading lady?
Margie:I really liked her. She was so fucking so cute. So naive. So innocent so in love, just like the other little lesbian, so I love it so adorable. Um, so I would give her it's one to five.
Rachel:Yes. Wonderful.
Margie:We only done this 50 times. Yeah, well 4848 We're almost there. Give her like a 3.5 Okay, it's cute. She was good. So because she's only 15 Also, she barely knows anything about herself. Right? So
Rachel:yeah, yeah. Um, I do smiles. I know. Like, I don't think we rated flower because we didn't feel comfortable with how problematic it was. And the fact that they were kids. Right? This one. I'm totally comfortable reading just a good book.
Margie:Yeah, it was not. Yeah, it's, it's problematic, but it's because of the world not because it's too teenager like one teenager being a shithead to another. Um,
Rachel:I'm sorry, Margie. I think you mean.
Margie:So and then Sarah. I mean, she was also just adorable. And I would, I'd love to just put it this way, I would die for both of them. I would take a bullet for both of them. I love them so much. I love them so much. Um, then it's the what was my babies? I'm not gonna write the smile. No.
Rachel:Absolutely not. But next is the plot. I like
Margie:I liked the plot, I think but I think I liked it. Because I haven't gone through any of this. I you know, right. So it was it felt like, it felt like something that a lot of people already know about. But because of the privileged life that I've led, I knew nothing. I know nothing. Right. So I would give the plot a seven.
Rachel:Okay. I think that again, uncomfortable in a good way. I liked the plot, because it's not something I've experienced. And I mean, maybe it was completely 100% non realistic. Unfortunately, I don't think that was the case. But maybe it was I think I find out though, we'll find out what our blog post I think we will. So I'm excited to talk to Ross Yeah, talk to Mr. Murray. That's gonna be awesome. So hey, stay tuned for that. Yeah. And then the last one we had was overall plot.
Margie:Overall plot? Well, I did that one. Sorry. The overall look.
Rachel:Overall book.
Margie:I would give it a seven. Okay. Yeah. And pretty good. It's pretty good. And I will say that I would highly recommend teenagers read this book. Yeah, I think it would be really this would be a really good of like educational High School. Yes. Reading List High School required reading summer reading. Right. And that may be why I'm, you know, not as thrilled with it, because I'm already an adult. And it was just kind of like, Sure. I mean, you don't you don't want isn't written for my age. Right. So which sounds mean,
Rachel:it I could see this one right up there with so my sophomore year, we had to read night and we had to read The Things They Carried. And both of those were very good in a make you uncomfortable, right? In a good way kind of thing. Right. And that's the vibe I get from this one. Like I can see it going right up there with that if I want just a real depressing high school book reading list for the for the year 19.
Margie:Honestly, that's what books are supposed to do. Yeah, well, it's our books are supposed to do.
Rachel:I think one of my favorite quotes is, art should be bring comfort to the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. Like same with books. That is, it is important too. Don't get me wrong. I am the queen of escapism when it comes to books. Like when I'm uncomfortable. It's like that, well, I'm going to fuck off to this world. That's the most different from ours as possible, right? But it's also important to read stuff that are comments on where you're at. Like it's important to put your head in the sand. We're way past that wish I could way past that tail Can I can still lives matter and dream. Yeah, but no, this was good. I liked it a lot. And it was such a departure of what we usually do like in a good way. I'm super happy with it. Happy Pride.
Margie:Stay tuned for our interview with Ross Murray from glad awesome um, are you gonna ask me what I'm reading?
Rachel:Oh, yeah. What are you reading? Margie? Is trying times.
Margie:I actually had like a bit of trouble lately having finding something to read.
Rachel:So are you consuming,
Margie:consuming? Oh, I've been listening to a lot of my brother my brother and me. Yes, I actually only recently because I saw them live my best friend Janelle. She took me my other best friend now because Rachel is my best friend excuse you Excuse you. took me to see them and I actually fell in love with sawbones first and then I love sawbones. Dr McElroy, like another person I would die for. Yeah, uh, and I've been listening to a lot of my brother, my brother me, and I've also been watching a lot of John Oliver Last Week Tonight. Yeah, I love that. So I'm a stand up comedy person. I probably listened to them if I don't like them, and I will critique yeah that's what I've been consuming
Rachel:nice yeah nice that sounds like like nice and healthy and wholesome and yeah in good ways yeah good ways I love them I'm actually super behind on my brother my brother me I need to catch up I was
Margie:listening to him was it on the way up here which is funny because it's like I know it's come out on Disney plus and I have Disney plus but I feel like I have a like I have to devote oh yeah that's like a three hour days right of time to that to that show. I can't just let it play in the background
Rachel:it's a quarter of the extended Lord of the Rings trilogy
Margie:right solid dive right
Rachel:it's because I gauge all things all time related things in terms of Lord of the Rings
Margie:seems so slow you'd like to count the leaves that blow across
Rachel:dead of instead of light years I vote that we change it to extended edition hours
Margie:literally god hey thanks for listening cried
Rachel:in July yes um price missing July price Miss price missing July
Margie:and also I've seen this online too. Because the first Pride was a riot.
Rachel:Yay wrath happy wrath
Margie:happy. Love that.
Rachel:Oh, happy seven sins happy
Margie:seven sends them in there. Hey, thank you, Ellen. Are
Rachel:you the use of your song a love of the r&b hell? It's a great tool.
Margie:It's a great tool. It's a bop
Rachel:it's about it's about its slaves. Its slaves that a word that the youngins Are you still using?
Margie:Um, well, no, but were we Thanks, everyone.
Rachel:We love you Love you all. Bye