In a turn of events that shocked no one, Rachel and Margie picked similar books again! We're headed back to Medieval England again as Margie tells Rachel all about Virginia Henley's, The Dragon and the Jewel. Who's ready for some serious misrepresentation of historical figures?
In a turn of events that shocked no one, Rachel and Margie picked similar books again! We're headed back to Medieval England again as Margie tells Rachel all about Virginia Henley's, The Dragon and the Jewel. Who's ready for some serious misrepresentation of historical figures?
Oh, hello, and welcome to textual tension. I am your co host, Rachel and I pop in here every other week to tell you about some business that we got going on all damn BS, Nas. And I'm also here with your co host, itsy bitsy, you wanna say hello? Yep. Very important news. Good job. Thank you. And hey, let's, let's get down to it, huh? We have a really great episode for you guys today. But before that, I need to tell you about something else. That's really great. This week, we have not one, not two, but two new patrons on Patreon. So hey, Victoria, and James, you guys are awesome. Thank you so much for supporting us, we really appreciate it. And I hope you're enjoying all that cool, cool stuff you're getting. And hey, if you are potentially interested in supporting us on Patreon, you can head on over to patreon.com/textual tension and check out all the cool stuff over there, we actually just had a new seasonal episode drop for Valentine's Day, it was a blast. And and those ones are long ones, guys, it was like almost two and a half hours long. So we have a lot of fun with them. So there's all kinds of cool stuff over there. So head on over and maybe consider supporting us and hey, if you're not in a position financially, or whatever to support us, that's totally fine. 100%. Cool. But what would really help is if you could go on like Apple podcasts or anything like that, and hey, leave us a review, we would really appreciate it, we will send you stickers if you do it, and then send us a picture of your review. And hey, free stuff, who doesn't love free stuff, honestly. So if you could do that, that would be really, really helpful and maybe tell a friend about us. We don't pay to advertise the show. And it really, really helps us if you just kind of spread the word for us. And hey, we love you for it. Thank you. He hit us up on all of the social medias if you have anything you want to say about this book, because there's a lot to say about this book, or any of the other ones that we've done. We are at textual tension pod on all of the social media platforms. That's the Instagram, the Facebook, Twitter, all that stuff. We have a website textual tension pod.com, where textual tension pod@gmail.com If you want to email us all kinds of stuff. We get all kinds of book recommendations, and we love to get them so hit us up. And oh gosh, we have merch haven't said that in a while we're at T public. There's a link to that store on our website and in our ins on our Instagram. And hey, I hope you had a great Valentine's Day. Whether it was just for you or with someone else. I know that we love you. So you know there's that. And I think that's it as far as business goes. So, for your romance novel wisdom this week, I am going to leave you with this really interesting and just honestly fascinating statistic the average person has about one testicle. So you know you have that now. And hey, without further ado, go ahead and please enjoy episode 64. Horny for some self sacrifice tearing me apart from
Unknown:Rocky sea.
Margie:Hello, and welcome to textual tension, a love hate relationship with romance novels. I am recode Smarty and I'm your co host Rachel and this our other podcast Athena who's making yourself very known today and I want you guys to know that. Every other week one of us reads and summarizes a romance novel for the other unsuspecting co hosts this week that co host is Rachel it me you and together we unpack what the fuck just happened. Oh boy listeners. Uh, two weeks ago, Rachel took us on a magical Fabio filled adventure. And I am afraid that we and Rachel talked about this a lot. We are frequently on the same wavelength weirdly on like if we believed in crystals and stuff like that, like well, Rachel definitely doesn't believe I like crystals. They're pretty. They're pretty. So I'm we're on the same wavelength. We were feeling the same thing. I found this book a good well, they should have paid me to take it off of their hands. So Rachel, I'm going to send you the link now.
Rachel:Oh, good. Ready? Um, no, but sure. I've already been in Renaissance times once. Why again? Go. Oh, no. Where'd I put it?
Unknown:Ah,
Rachel:The Dragon and the jewel by Virginia Henley. We have it says let's see the best in romantic fiction according to Ron Davao, which I have a feeling. I'm going to take umbrage with that. So I use that word. Read the
Margie:top line.
Rachel:From the New York Times best selling author of a woman of passion.
Margie:Oh, my nothing my says the New York Times. Okay, what you say
Rachel:the medieval planted Genet trilogy is that what do you have to read?
Margie:My No, well, mine at the top says mine at the top says the New York Times bestselling author of enslaved and desired is Oh, slave. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Rachel:Apparently, on the Amazon one picture, they decided to go with the slightly better a woman of passion. I can't imagine why. No idea. So okay, so there is the cover is this like, Sky ish sort of background that has like, it's pink at the top, and then it goes to yellow and then it goes to purple. So either they're on another planet, or it is the apocalypse. There's a castle. And then there's a big flag in the front that's like very like medieval kind of flag and has a dragon on it. And it's yellow, and it's whipping in the wind. And that's it. And I have to assume that the dragon is an asshole. But that's just my initial assumptions based on Well, this
Margie:book is based off of the plantagenets the royal family in the 13th century. And the dragon is not there so Oh, so I don't know why that dragon is on there.
Rachel:Oh, I didn't even know what the plan tagit or whatever was so Okay, all right. Cool. Oh, Margie, I just rolled down to the description and the literally the third word
Margie:go on Rachel. Go
Unknown:on. Come on. You can do your boy.
Rachel:With her sapphire eyes and silken dark hair. Princess Eleanor was a bewitching beauty made for made for a man's pleasures Good for her. You know what? Also she looks the exact same as Reina. Yeah, last episode. Yep. Once the Oh no. Once a child bride, but widowed at a tender age, she swore never to marry again and took a vow of a turtle chastity until Simon DeMontfort marched into England and set his smoldering dark gaze upon her king Henry's youngest daughter, okay with Henry, the royal families that are the second jewel, okay. Bold, arrogant and invincible, the towering Norman Knight inspired all in the bravest of men and a reckless desire and Eleanor's untried heart. Boy, great, huh? You are not wrong. Hmm. We picked upsettingly similar books.
Unknown:Mm hmm.
Rachel:I would also and here's something even crazier. Uh, you know how in the last book ran off had been sent off to become a knight from an total asshole. That assholes name was DeMontfort
Unknown:oh my god, that is lazy.
Rachel:Only one of two options one author's couldn't come up with better names to these take place in the same cinematic universe. You cannot I have to go with
Margie:number two. Okay, so here's the thing. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright, so here's the thing. This is actually historical is historical fiction. Oh God, which makes it it's not like, which is not a
Rachel:fantasy representation. Oh, historical fiction. They tried
Margie:okay. They they Yeah, they took from actual historical events Miss Miss Headley dead and you would not guess that from the front or the back cover because it does not mention that it's historical fiction. And so
Rachel:like, um, I had a little bit of a I knew this book was gonna be bad because again, Margie and I have had a bad book off going for the past couple days of like, you know, so, so I did make a bingo card. Margie.
Unknown:Yay. Yay. Sure,
Margie:there are gonna be more than less than I even made so it's gonna be great. It's gonna
Rachel:put everything I could possibly think of it goes whiteboard, in my five by five thing so you're ready. No,
Margie:hit me. Okay, so the trigger now
Rachel:our So we go slow so I can mark them off of my list of suicide ideation.
Margie:Oh, yeah. Oh, got that one. pedophilia.
Rachel:Oh, hang on, hang on, hang on. Hmm. Does child abuse count
Margie:Jollibee scouts that's pedophilia. Okay. All right. All right. All right, violence.
Rachel:Oh, I do have general violence on here.
Margie:Emotional abuse.
Rachel:Uh, no emotional manipulation. Got
Margie:that one grooming. I didn't get that one. Stockholm Syndrome.
Rachel:No, I didn't get that one either. Vor I do is that was that it for now? So there wasn't is there rape there is or sexual assault? No kidnapping. No horse mutilation. No. I put that on here. Just you know, just in case. Yeah. Violence, obviously.
Margie:Poisoning.
Rachel:Ooh. So like, like, murder or death? Yes. Okay. Okay. I got death. Cool. Real quick. I'm just going to go through the My List real quick, just to make sure I'm not missing any politics.
Margie:Yeah, there's politics. Okay, okay. Okay.
Unknown:The dog is not okay. The dog every all
Margie:animals are okay. Okay,
Unknown:homophobia, no homophobia, child death.
Margie:No child death. gaslighting. Yes, I would say there is gaslighting mob stuff. No mob stuff. Fire. No fire.
Rachel:Car Accident. Probably not.
Margie:Motherfucker.
Rachel:Racism.
Margie:Uh, yes. Racism, human trafficking, no human trafficking, slavery. There was slavery, animal abuse, no animal abuse drugs or guns in what there actually is animal abuse. No drugs or guns. No drugs.
Rachel:Well, unfortunately, I didn't get any but I was only two away.
Margie:So for you.
Rachel:I think it was more of my placement that it was the problem. I'm honestly really upset. There's not horse mutilation in it, but I did have it on my list just in case.
Margie:Okay, okay, so are you ready? Rachel, are you ready
Rachel:for now? Hit me.
Margie:Okay. Yes, I'm so ready. So I just have to introduce a few characters because it will make it easier going forward. Okay, so we have Eleanor Plantagenet who she is Princess of English, England and Countess of Pembroke. She's got dark black hair that goes down to her waist deep blue eyes, the color of Persian sapphires. And she's known throughout the land as the king's precious jewel.
Rachel:Okay, you know, Persian sapphires. Very different than any other sapphires
Margie:right. And then so she has two brothers, Henry and Richard Henry is going to be king. So in he's talking at a very young age. I think he's maybe even was crowned maybe at seven. So okay, really young because both of us so his their father died the King and their mother was a piece of shit. And when the king died she was like fuck you and left her kids and went to marry her lover so their mom is gone.
Rachel:Okay, so that makes it creepier that she's the king's jewel just yet want that put out there. Oh,
Margie:I guess wait. Okay, so she the the government of the time so parliament is really close friends with this guy, the marshal family in England because the marshals are super fucking wealthy. And right now, the government is not
Rachel:okay. So real quick historical context wise, since this is actually like Historical Based in history. Yes. What like are we like at crusades time? It is Henry the eighth?
Margie:1260s. Okay. Yeah. So like the 13th centuries and the 13th.
Rachel:Okay, yeah, hang on. Yeah. crusades dates. So yeah, in crusades times. Okay, actually. Okay. Great.
Margie:Great. Awesome. So that was also happening, I guess. So the government is like, really loves the Marshall family. Basically, they're just super wealthy. So I'm William Marshall, who is I want to say that he's like 36 or something. He may be older than that. Mary's Eleanor our girl when she is not
Rachel:you know what I said last time about like, different times night
Margie:there it is nine oh, she was nine. So God so he is trying to be the best guy that he can't be like he's trying to be a good person.
Unknown:I good on him. I have
Margie:trouble with him later. But when so when he she and Sir her he's very much this father figure because he really just took care of his her and his siblings and her siblings. because her parents were gone, right, and so she was kind of raised as like a Hellion child. And so when they get married, he stipulates, he's like, alright, she's going to move into an all female household. The this Nunnery is going to take care of her. I'm going to pay for it all and she's going to stay at Windsor Castle and be educated and become a fine young lady. And then I will come back and see her like, and then we will pay like actually married and live a married life together as husband wife.
Rachel:Okay, so like for now good on him. Yes. Because Dan history was shitting on women.
Margie:Yes, yes. So um, and he goes off, he might be fighting in the Crusades. It's just not described in this book as the Crusades. But he goes like fighting in France to take back English land there and he's fighting for the king and all this stuff. William Marshall,
Rachel:honestly, pick a war. Pick a war anyway, there's so many
Margie:so many. So he comes back to the to England pretty victorious, like he's won his battles. And he comes back to the king and he's talking with the king. They're chillin. And he sees this woman come off a boat near I think, I think they're at the tower in London. So he sees a woman come off this barge and he's like, Who's that? She is fine. And Henry laughs and it's like, you don't recognize your own wife. It's been six years. So she is now 15.
Rachel:Woman loosely in quotes.
Unknown:Good. Yeah. Yeah. Good.
Rachel:He okay. It's been six years. So he is 45.
Unknown:Yeah,
Rachel:this is like,
Margie:oh, and we all when she's nine and after wedding, like you would not know that she's nine. She has behavior that is really creepy for someone her age. Like she's like, grabbing his thigh under the table kind of shit. Like grabbing his arm. And it's like, he's like, No, you're a child.
Unknown:Ah, yeah, yep. Yep. Um,
Rachel:okay, we all knew Jane Eyre was like kind of fucked up because of age difference. This is that Yep. Gateway to the extreme.
Margie:So the Countess of Pembroke grew into young womanhood with a vast knowledge of the world, yet not worldly in any way. She grew up anger, innocent ignorant of all venal matters. So
Rachel:what is venal, sexual?
Margie:Like, she has no knowledge of the sexy stuff at all. So
Rachel:well, that is what you need to be a worldly human is to understand all of the and you have to spend at least 45 minutes with the village prostitute in order to know all that shit.
Margie:So Eleanor has now grown into a beautiful minor. She is.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah.
Margie:She is now 15. And Will is very, very into her now. You know, now that she's a teenager.
Rachel:I mean, again, remember 15 She's basically in the middle of her midlife crisis at this point at the time. Barry's
Margie:also describes her breasts as tilting upwards and like tilting up, and I'm just imagining it like the curly ends of elf shoes.
Unknown:No, yeah.
Rachel:I mean, they, they were that on their shoes a lot. I think at that, like, at some point in history, maybe it was that time and they also liked it in their boobs, right? Maybe
Margie:who knows? Maybe who knows. So despite So now well is like into her right. So he's spending some time with her and despite his attention, because of some words that we'll shared with his sister Isabella that Eleanor heard Eleanor's convinced that will does not want or love her and so she promises herself that she will become everything that he wants, even if it means throwing our way her own personality healthy healthy. So we'll and Eleanor continue flirting at the Tower of London because you know, it's fine. And girl is like really charmed with her. He's like, wow, the nuns over there at Windsor did a great job. She's a fine lady. Now I'm so proud. And you know what, it's time for her to have her own castle. So they ride out to this castle together with Richard Eleanor's brother, and will sister Isabella, who is married but ends up fucking Richard. And Will is very unhappy about that. Wait. Yeah, it's really confusing.
Unknown:Richard wills brother wills
Margie:wills sister, Isabella, five. Hey. Eleanor's brother Richard.
Rachel:Okay, guys, so then
Unknown:get out your board
Rachel:tower. I was because it wasn't the Tower of London like a prison.
Margie:It was also a castle at one point it wasn't just Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, it was like a super a fancy castle at one point. Well, yeah,
Rachel:definitely I still have the castle that I was given when I was 15. So you know, yeah, womanhood
Margie:it's convenient, isn't it? So we'll tells Richard are you're going to France to basically end a war there too. I'm going to banish you there so that you stop fucking my sister.
Rachel:So okay, sure why not more
Margie:side what King Henry the third is married to Queen Eleanor of Normandy. Because that is super convenient and easy to remember. Right so that we have two Eleanor's in the plot. We have Queen Eleanor and we have Princess Eleanor
Rachel:and Queen Eleanor's from Normandy, which is also where our dragony boys gonna be from? Yes. Good. Yeah, yeah. Fantastic.
Margie:Yeah, awesome. So Queen Eleanor is a total bitch though. Who's super jealous of Princess Eleanor. For her beauty for her money for her husband because Queen Eleanor is into well, and Queen Eleanor vows to pull King Henry away from his sister. She tries to she tries to get some of the for her French courtiers to fuck Princess, Princess Eleanor. So she's like, she tries to get like some of Queen Eleanor tries to get some of her French courtiers like the people that she brought with her from France. to fund her it says Eleanor to like destroy her virtual
Rachel:like, like rape her. Yeah, men. Not
Margie:rape her they're trying to seduce her. Ah, yeah, I use that French charm. Good. fantast so in a will and a prince. Our princess have another France at this point. They're not in France. They're still in England.
Rachel:Well, but was it actually France? Or was it Gaul?
Margie:I don't know. So um, let's see. Princess, Princess Eleanor. And we'll have another enemy who is this couch rollers type named Winchester who has designed to be king Henry's right hand man. But and right now that right hand man is still will do to like he has a lot of money but also just loyalty. He's been a really good friend to King Henry for a long time. Right but Winchesters determined to destroy this and the way they tried to destroy this. Is he started screwing Princess Eleanor's made in a confession booth. What a fleabags
Rachel:so I'm assuming if it's confession booth and I'm assuming at this point England is sipping from the Catholic flavors
Margie:it is it is sipping on a Catholic Yeah. Got it and then he gives this maid poison to give well and tells her it's actually Viagra to finally force will to beg Princess Eleanor.
Rachel:How much of this is actually based on history?
Margie:Not much. Not okay, cuz I
Rachel:was gonna say I would have paid so much more attention to history class. Budget happened.
Margie:I will but will is now in love with Princess Eleanor. She's 15 Yeah, yes. For 15 Yeah, she says they still have not had sex yet. But Will is finding out harder to resist and is doing some really not great things to her while she's underwear.
Unknown:Is it? Oh,
Rachel:oh, I had a comment. And then you just slip that while she's unaware thing in there. And now I have questions. While she's asleep. Like,
Margie:feels her up while she's asleep.
Unknown:Oh, okay. All right.
Rachel:So my comments are irrelevant. Just keep going. So
Margie:um, we'll sister is a Isabella. Her husband died. So now she can marry Richard, that guy. She was fucking at the beginning of the book. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. So they do. And on that day, we'll also intends to renew his vows with Eleanor. And then like, because now she's ready, right? She's 16 and a half at this point. She's now ready to breach that uninitiated cleft.
Rachel:So damn it. Okay, two things. One, so technically, it wasn't even a marriage by those standards at that point since it hadn't been consummated. And right to this requires some explanation listeners, Margie and I have started an escalation. And basically up until this point, I think we posted some of it already. Instagram, when one of us will just message the other person be like, hey, hey Margie, and then say, a reference to a dick or a vagina that is written in the romance novel. That's terrible. Um, and it's starting to get word of sort of fun. So Margie wrote one to me. And so I called her. No, I sent her a video. Yes. And then she called me said it and hung up. And then I forget what I did. And then she gave one to Zach to tell me that it's simple point. I'm just saying it's only $3,500 to hire a skywriter. We'll see how it goes. We'll keep you abreast of bridge of the situation.
Margie:All right. So I'm Isabelle and Richard get married. And Eleanor and we'll get remarried. They party that night. Then both parties head to bed where we'll finally breaches that virgin barrier
Rachel:Good for him. And then by that I mean not
Margie:just say this straight, okay. Oh, no. And then he dies in her is having sex
Rachel:with a 16 year old and literally dying in her vagina? Boy that is gonna fuck her up for a long time.
Margie:Oh, it does? Uh,
Unknown:yeah.
Rachel:Holy What a piece of trash.
Margie:Well, so he was poisoned. That's why he died inside her. Oh, good. Winchester did manage to poison him. So
Rachel:wedding that's a major.
Margie:I know. The court is thrown into complete disarray. And in the midst of all this Eleanor in her real it's actually like her grief is just so sad. You know, she's 16 she's feeling like all her emotions and the 1000s the level and has no idea how to handle them.
Rachel:had sex for the first time involving death, which again, that's how psychopaths, right? And also like, I I know, this doesn't matter. But my curiosity won't let me not ask Did she get off first?
Margie:No. No, did he? I don't know. Because he says so. The last thing he says before he dies is forgive me Eleanor. And then he dies.
Rachel:Okay, one that's creepy, too. Um, you would think he would have been like feeling bad up to that point. Like, someone doesn't just like go that long and then just ain't dead. Like
Margie:she had some so he got up from the table to like, follow Eleanor to their chambers, and he had like a moment of excruciating pain. And he was like, That was weird. Well, okay, and then had another one when he was carrying her up into the bed.
Rachel:I don't think that they're a Granted I'm not a poisoner, but I don't think there's a poison out there that would cause those symptoms that he was well enough to have sex and then just die.
Margie:Yep, yep. Good. Okay, I would think so. Si, Daisy. doodly doo Oopsy daisy doodly doo. Did you just fall asleep for five minutes? So Eleanor and her grief. Like I said, it's just so sad. So sad to read. Like, she's just what am I going to do now with the rest of my life? Because this this was my destiny. She was 16 Right? And she's 16 So she's basically an old maid. She swears on a Bible before the archbishop that she will die a virgin and a widow.
Rachel:How's that blasphemy gonna go? It's gonna go really well. Well, they
Margie:love it. They're like yeah, heck yeah, sign right here, bitch. We want you in the vise for God do it. So for a year, Princess Eleanor wallows in her own castle on the outskirts of London, basically, with a very small court just like a ghost. Like, she's just, her passion is gone. Her heart is gone. And she really doesn't know what she's gonna do with her life. She doesn't really want to be a nun. But she's thinking about it because she's like, I don't know how to live without will either. And
Rachel:anything, I was gonna say if we know anything about God at that time, it's that he was like horny for some self
Margie:sacrifice. Oh, totally. Totally. I'm
Rachel:going to hell for that sentence.
Margie:Welcome to hell. I'll see you down there.
Rachel:So I was already there. But it's fine. Right?
Margie:So in those times in those times, you couldn't just be a woman on your own. You were either married a nun, a queen or a slut? Those were your four options. What if I'm all of those? Yeah, exactly. But now you can be all of those but back then you could only be one. So
Rachel:wow, God, thank God for feminism right? Right.
Margie:So she's starting to wake up out of this like, I don't know, horror state of like grief and guilt. She thinks that she killed him too, which helps. Her vagina is deadly. That's what people at the court are saying, girl I know. So one day she's like, I gotta get out of this fucking castle for five minutes. So she goes out falcon wing with a bird that William had gifted her like she's on a horse. She's like, Okay, finally feel a little bit of life here. And, you know, she feels that and so another Falcon comes and rips her Falcons throat out. And she's furious. It's this guy's name is Simon De Montfort. And he's basically like, no use crying over spilled Falcon.
Rachel:Okay, okay, one that was phenomenal to what? And I cannot stress this enough. Look fun.
Margie:Oh, right. So she goes into a quote unquote Plantagenet rage, which is a family thing. She like I said it, he said him like jumps on him screams him and his scratches his cheek and is just a vicious cat. Now granted, this guy is cute and like eight feet tall and broad and just enormous. Like think Jason Momoa. That's how he's described.
Rachel:I mean, one poor Jason. Yeah,
Margie:I know. I know.
Rachel:Compared to this, but to I mean, that rage thing. It really tracks when you have that much inbreeding just happens.
Margie:Bear okay. So, you know, this is happening. And he's like, holding her off really easily because she's tiny. And he's huge. But meanwhile, he gets hoarding. He's like, I don't know who's Mr. Whose mistress you are. But I'm going to buy you from him. And she's like, I am no one's mistress. The person who has My heart is my husband and he's dead. So fuck off. And Simon leaves without her name thinking she is someone's mistress.
Unknown:Oh, god. Um,
Rachel:well, okay, I officially concede you definitely had the worst book and also I'm broken them dead. Yeah, it could keep going. It gets worse gets worse.
Margie:So he continues to stalk her essentially, like for several days and Richard is so Simon De Montfort has helped England at this point when silver wars because he's a warlord and so he's good friends with like King Henry and Prince Richard. And they are talking so like Simon thinks that he has a met Eleanor before. Because they're like, Henry and Richard are talking about her. And they're like, oh, yeah, it's really sad. Like she she agreed to be a to be a widow and a virgin forever. And Simon's like, Oh, she doesn't even sound that pretty. Like she sounds kind of like a bitch. And Richard Kind of looks at him. And it's like, you saw her this morning. She was in the street. She was the one you were staring at.
Unknown:He's like, Oh, hey. Oh.
Rachel:So he was that bitch. A virgin forever. You say? That doesn't sound like a challenge, doesn't it
Margie:and got it all. So that's pretty much what he says. Like, I never backed down from a challenge. So he continues to follow her and came back to her castle. And he he like climbs up her walls outside of her castle and drops down into her gardens, and like quarters her in there at another point and climbs up the tower to her bedroom and like is laying in her bed when she goes to bed at night. Hey,
Rachel:hey, hey, fellas. That shit ain't romantic. Not That's creepy. Um, but I to be fair finger strength, I guess. But no. Still creepy. So, um, at least we know he can curl her vagina with his fingers.
Margie:I mean, I'm just making okay. Yeah, I'm just making sure I'm getting the plots, right? Cuz like a lot of things. The similar things happen again and again, like him going into the garden. Right? And so I'm like, Wait,
Rachel:I'm confused. It's time to go into the garden this time.
Margie:He got Yeah, exactly. So um, let's see. But the exchanges with Simon kind of slowly bring Eleanor out of her shell. And she's realizing she's like, you know, I don't think I really want to be a nun. I don't think that's my life. Like, I think that I am too obsessed with like fun and adventure and jewels, honestly, and my own vanity to become a nun. Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Rachel:I feel like she's a woman in crusades times. I don't know if she would have even had the own like the ability to say she was going to become a nun. I feel like like she Oh, you're a widow. And you're a prominent like, historical figure. We need to make an alliance buy.
Margie:Well, yeah. Well, and you know, I think that that's just the historical fiction aspect of it because book like her brothers go back and forth. Richard is usually a pretty good guy, but Will it or not? Well, well also well, but Henry, her brother Brother is, you know, he's like from one moment he's like, Oh, I'm so glad. Like, I understand you want some solitude and to take this vow of chastity? That's cool. And then on, but he seems always happy with her decisions, which I'm like, that's not accurate. She's making her own decisions. You would not be happy with that. Okay?
Rachel:No. And how sad is it that the fiction is the part where the woman is given agency? Yeah,
Margie:right. Sorry. Right. So LR tells her mother superior of the convent that's helped her get through a lot of her grief through like charity work and stuff. She's like, look, I love what y'all are doing here. Like, I think it's great for you guys, but it's just not for me. And but her mother's superiors, like listen, spend one night at the convent, and like a super private room with just you in the Bible. And I'm sure Jesus will call your heart and
Rachel:I know what's gonna happen. I know what's gonna happen. So sneak in, they're gonna bang in the convent. And yeah, Jesus is gonna show her something
Margie:close. Close, but almost the gar, you got like a cigarette. Um, okay, so that was good. That is. So that's pretty much what happens. Simon does show up in that convent. He's like, I am going to convince you that you are not for this life by fucking. But unfortunately, maybe fortunately, our girl has PTSD from a guy literally dying inside of her. Now she's not exactly comfortable with this arrangement. And he's like, Oh, hmm, well, I guess I shouldn't force her. I need to make her comfortable with me so that she'll marry me. Hmm,
Rachel:you know, what a really good way to do that was a sneaking into her place and stalking her
Margie:right exactly how to do it. So. And excuse me, I think the author writes all these encounters like very romantically, but and it's not because it's just creepy. And then the other thing is that like, in this scene, in particular, I was thinking to myself, like, okay, but you have to wonder to yourself, does she have any other choices other than to let him like, cuddle her and touch her up all night? I mean, if she screams, then she'll be seen as a harlot by the Sisters of the order. She will probably wouldn't be in the nunnery even if she wanted to. And they would probably tell her brothers that she was a slight. So no, yeah. No. All right. So okay, so why? It's a lot, right,
Rachel:right. It's just a lot just not gonna get better, is
Margie:it? No, it's not so but despite this, Simon, like, despite her trepidation, the fact that she's like, No, we can't do this. Like, I cannot be in a relationship with you. I made a vow of chastity. I have certain obligations of a woman of my rank. I can't do it. He's like, Nah, I'm gonna marry you. We're gonna get married. I'm not worried about all that shit. So he's like, he's thinking to himself, he's like, Tam. How can I get her? To marry me? I know. I'll get her pregnant. But wait.
Unknown:So he a real the phone. Hold the phone. Yeah, yeah.
Rachel:He said he was gonna make her comfortable with him. So I get married first. Yeah. Does he know how pregnancy works?
Margie:Well, he wanted to have sex that night. Like he wanted to. He just was like, oh, but she's not. He's basically like, trying to like, coddle her into it into having sex with him. Yeah. Like, determined. He's like, he thinks that he's in love with her, which I think is arguable. Yeah. And so he wants he wants to have sex with her because he's in love with her, but he also wants to entrap her so that she'll marry him be forced to marry him.
Rachel:I got nothing I got Yes. Yeah,
Margie:keto, I really know. None. So he really wants to lay her to a keep her from going into the convent with pleasurable coitus and be get her pregnant, so she will be forced to marry him. So that's what his thought process is, as he's going into the convent to, he thinks he's going to have sex with her, but it doesn't end up happening because he's like, Oh, PTSD. Um, there's a lot more scenes of him just showing up in the garden. And her being like, No, we mustn't, and running away, back into her tower, a lot of that kind of stuff. And she's finally like, you know what, I fucking had enough of this shit. I'm leaving. And so she tells her brothers, I'm going to this castle. I don't want to be disturbed. Leave me alone. And they're like, cool, fine, and it's up in Wales. So and it's almost winter time. So she knows she's like, Alright, no one's gonna be able to come up there and bother me including Simon. So I'll finally be on my own. So she goes to that first castle. But then the next day she goes to another castle and tells the people in that original castle, don't tell anyone where I'm going. I do not want anyone
Rachel:to know. So was her girl I
Margie:know she's really, really try and write to like,
Rachel:How old is she at this point? She's
Margie:17 Good. I think in the I think in the real history. It was seven years after the death of her first husband that she and Simon met but in this book, she made it only a year so you know, it's fine. Ah, yeah, good. Yeah. Um, but so Simon's keeps showing up at our garden is like where the fuck is Eleanor? Not letting the bitch get away from me. No way. So he seduces Queen Eleanor to tell him where Princess Eleanor went. Once Yeah. And it's not the first time that he does that. Alright, so he goes to that they actually have sex, not sex, just like canoodling. Okay, yeah, great very flirtatious Lux remarks, etc.
Unknown:Um, stick so he
Margie:so he goes to that castle where Queen Eleanor thinks she is because that's like our covered castle right? And he seduces a made in that castle to find out that his princess is in another castle.
Rachel:God damn it. Are you proud of me? I'm very proud of you. And that God damn, it refers to both you and him. Yeah, what the fuck is happening? I legitimately really want to know what the hit actual history
Margie:of this. Alright, so meanwhile, Eleanor is enjoying her solitude at one of our castles in north Wales. So she's got the court around her that she wants. And she's actually like, excited to kind of enjoy herself, right? Because she feels much more free up here. It's one of our old it's one of wills. Her husband's her late husband's castles. So it's in the middle of winter. And a snowstorm is just hit and but it's over. And she's like, I want to go outside cutting. I want to be on my horse. I want to be outside. And our mates kind of like Adam now but she's like, No, I'll be fine. It'll be great. I can't wait. It's gonna be awesome to get outside. So she does. And but unfortunately, her horse gets spooked. And she falls from her horse and hits her head and is knocked unconscious.
Rachel:So good. Good. I think I see where this was going.
Margie:So it's a day later. And Simon arrives Yeah, at her castle, only to find that same made in a panic. Eleanor has been missing for 24 hours.
Rachel:In snow. Oh, she wouldn't have survived that. So
Margie:in the middle of a snowstorm. Yeah. So Simon, there's no way so Simon goes back out into the snowstorm to find Eleanor and I do have like some context for what happens next. Okay, and he does so and Okay, so and he finds her underneath some snow and some further branches. So from when she had been knocked her horse, he reasons that she has been out in the elements for 30 hours without food or water, basically freezing. Now, I asked someone who was training to be a physician's assistant. He's only six months away, whether this was possible. And he says that it's Unlikely, but possible that she would survive in the elements that long because he's basically said like, her body would go into like a low energy state, if she stayed at the right temperature for a long enough. And so she could have survived however, he was like, Yeah, but that head injury, like that's sketchy. So, you know. So when Simon's when Simon finds her, he actually believes that she's dead because she's so pale, but he picks picks her up, and he discovers there's no rigor mortis, so he's like, Oh, my God, she's alive. So well. He carries her into a Small Lodge strips off her clothes and lays her in a bed and then massages brandy into her body to warm her. No, this would not work according to the physician's assistant.
Unknown:No,
Rachel:no, it wouldn't. I was I was gonna say the other the other thing is like, rigor mortis is a phase that the body goes through, but it is not permanent. Like the body is movable again after a while
Margie:after death. You mean? Yeah, I know that.
Rachel:I'm pretty sure if any of the true crime podcasts that I've listened to are true, then maybe I could be wrong.
Margie:So it's my Oh, he got some brandy into on, you know, massage into her skin. Yeah, massage the brandy on her body. So she's warming up I guess. And then he feeds her some of his blood for like blood for sustenance. Oh, I
Rachel:forgot this is historical fiction. Right? So yeah, the fam I knew the vampires were gonna come into play at some point.
Margie:So history finally does probably what he should have done. From the beginning. He gets her underneath somebody blankets and works on getting a fire up and getting some food.
Rachel:He hadn't even started a fucking low he
Margie:hasn't started a fucking fire. He did the other things first. Oh
Rachel:my god. Yeah, yeah, science hadn't been invented yet Jesus
Margie:right. So she wakes up and a little over a day later, they returned to the castle where everyone had assumed she was dead. And so a couple of days later, Simon and Eleanor go horseback riding together. And because you know, now they're romantically involved, because he saved her life. Oh, I
Rachel:forgot. That's yeah, I forgot
Margie:that romance where your life is saved. Yeah, it's one of the two right? It's one of the two. And so he this part is ridiculous. Oh my god. So no, they find wild ponies. They see wild ponies like running out in the Scottish Highlands, right? I don't know. I can know what it looks like there. And he picks her up and puts her on top one of these wild ponies. And the pony takes off. And and he's running behind. He's galloping behind with his DUSTRY or horse like super, you know, macho horse. And then he yells out jump. As she jumps off this horse. He catches her and then they both fall off of his horse and they like roll to the ground.
Rachel:Okay, one that would fucking hurt to what? And three? I guess maybe Okay, I think we might have gotten wrong gotten wrong. I think that the second stage in any relationship might not be birthing a horse together. It might just be bonding over horse it might
Margie:you know what you might be right. Alright, where's this fucking? Yeah. Okay, so this is where? Oh, fuck, where'd the plot of this book go? All right. What is the point where Eleanor is like, you know what? I'm into you. Let's be lovers.
Unknown:Let's fuck. So Simon has PTSD treat nude girls, I'm
Margie:his plan is working great for him because he's like, sweet. I got her. Like, now all he has to do is get her pregnant. Okay, yeah. So, um, they become lovers like they start sleeping with one another. But at one point, there's a point where like, Eleanor sort of like wakes up out of this, like, sex filled view fugue state. And it's like, what the fuck am I doing? I took a vow. We can't keep doing this. Like, this is not okay. And at this point, Simon yesterday, it's been months. It's been months that they've been fucking. And they're back in London at this point. And Simon lets her go. He's like, Well, it's too late. Now. He already knows that she's pregnant. Because her boobs have gotten really tender and big. So he's like, she's gonna have to come back to me eventually.
Rachel:Yeah, I still want to know what happened to the magical mystical PTSD. That's just gone now.
Margie:A lot of fucking a lot of fucking. Yeah, that was the problem in the first place, though. Right. So so he got it. He does not he does not realize that. So he does not tell her that he suspects that she's pregnant. Because he's like, Well,
Rachel:this combination of rogue, the one Fabio bug, and the one with the chick that goes to the like, alternate universe, and the dude removes her birth control without telling her it's like a horrible child of those
Margie:two. Right? Right, right. So a couple of months go by, I think it's actually so they get back to London and she breaks up with him pretty quick, because she's like, we can't keep doing this. And then four months go by since she's last seen him. And she's like, Hey, you know, my dresses are fitting. Hey, my belly is looking super bad. Oh my god. And she realizes that she's pregnant.
Rachel:That's four months of not having a period you think that maybe that would have tipped her off your wrist?
Margie:Take but no,
Rachel:no and morning sickness, right.
Margie:And she had that too. And she didn't put it all together until her belly started getting jagged. So some just a mild case of the plague at the same time that she's having this meltdown Simon like with his like, I don't know, his mind powers knows that she's having a meltdown. And like, picks her up in his tower just like Babe, it's gonna be okay. Don't worry, we're gonna get married. It's gonna be fine. And she's like, I have no choice. Now. I you have to marry me. And she's not in it's really not even okay with that, like, so they get married. So she goes to her brother Henry. She's like, I'm in love with Simon de mon for it. And I need to marry him. And Henry is like great. This is awesome. Like Simon is a great warlord. It'd be great to have him on my side. This is so much easier than paying him a bunch of money to be one of my soldiers or warlords or whatever. So sure. Yeah, marry him. So they get married, like, in Dead secret in the middle of the night and then like kind of just bolt from the castle Did you breeze?
Rachel:No, no, this is just my face right now.
Margie:Alright, so this is kind of where the plot just Rachel really goes sideways because
Unknown:where the fuck was it before
Margie:us for for the rest of the book. It's really just him getting mad at her and her getting mad at him and then they make up through sex. And they do this when they get banished from England for for their marriage, and they end up in Egypt. And then they do that when they get back from Egypt. So, at the end of this book, she has had at least one of his children and may have been pregnant with is at least pregnant with the second one if she's not already had it. And literally right here it says, My Love my torment. So tells you what their relationship is like.
Rachel:Wait, wait, okay, so they got banished from England because of their marriage?
Margie:Yeah, they got banished. Why? Because so she made a vow of chastity and widowhood for the rest of her life on the Bible from the arch Archbishop. So the church did not approve of their marriage. So got it, he actually might not have been I don't think they were actually I'm sorry. Like, I honestly just like skimmed through the end of this book, because I could not stand it anymore. I'm really sorry. So so their marriage was like deemed to be invalid, because she have this vow that she had. So our boy actually goes to Rome and pays the pope a bunch of money to declare it valid. Okay, that actually is probably pretty accurate. Yeah, that time, right, right. And then so they come back, and it's accurate. And then he gets back and King Henry, like, turns his back on them. And it's like, No, I never set up your wedding for the two of you. I never did that. Why would I ever do that? Yeah. And it's just great. And then at the end of the book, it all works out and everybody's have the are having sex or getting mad at each other and having sex to make up and the end?
Rachel:Do they actually say they love each other? Like, does the book end with them saying they love each other?
Margie:Yeah, they love each other. Supposedly. What? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me just, oh, I have a quote I have. I have a quote. Oh, God. So this is between an exchange between Henry Richard I believe, or maybe William Marshall, and Simon de mon for it. Okay. As they drew the weapons from their sheets, all three men shared a moment of zeal that only glory of battle could generate. They tasted blood lust on their tongues and experience such a rush in their veins, they all three became sexually aroused. That's how this book is written, exhausted.
Rachel:So we all know the only way to arouse men is through blood and violence.
Margie:So here's the thing, the last 100 pages of this book, like nothing happens. That hasn't happened before. Like the only difference is that they're like dealing with shit in Egypt, but it's the same shit. Like why they get mad at each other for like, flirting with other people or supposedly flirting with other people than they have sex to make up
Rachel:just in Egypt? Like, is there any actual point of them being an agent? I'm sure there
Margie:let me remember. Oh, because Okay, so Oh, right. Okay, so that Winchester guide the beginning of the book. He also doesn't want Simon around. So he has the communicated from the church. And he like makes it Henry King Henry do it. Yeah, it's not good.
Unknown:So
Rachel:was there even a plot? I don't I think this might be the first one that you haven't been able to finish. I feel like
Margie:I've shaved our family around our house but like yeah, it was um, her I think the author was trying to say the plot was a princess Eleanor trying to find her destiny i think that that was meant to be the plot and her destiny was being fucked over by men.
Rachel:I mean, honestly, what woman's Destiny wasn't that at that time period very true. Very true. But I want to know what happened to the mystical magical PTSD because that just straight up like
Margie:left Yeah, I mean, a good fucking will do that to your Rachel,
Rachel:but fucking was the problem. The first time she couldn't even get around to the fucking he
Margie:the first time they they But she couldn't even get around to it because she was too nervous the next time they only get half of it in there, huh? Yeah, okay yeah and then the next
Rachel:and then he dies Wait No no no don't happen once. Damn it I was hoping
Margie:he does not die unfortunately I wish cuz I really I mean like I didn't really like well Marshall that much just because he was like suddenly okay with he was fucking he was okay with fucking 15 year old yeah are like interested in fucking a 15 year old you should not be interested in fucking a 15 year old but I really don't like Simon he's just like so a lot there's a lot of language to have him saying like I'm the man I get to make the decisions because I am the man a lot of that a lot of that
Rachel:and again i i feel like this falls into obviously the same category as my book from the last episode where it's yes I appreciate and understand the historical certain historically accurate aspects of this. Mm hmm it's not something to be romanticized and glorify exactly
Margie:exactly like that's how I was
Rachel:feeling too very much is yeah it's not okay. Really not okay. Boy, I don't I think I would put this one in the we don't read it category.
Margie:Oh yeah, we are definitely not writing it I'm not getting into the sex I've no interest or desire to
Rachel:know I am however curious about the actual history.
Margie:Oh, yeah, total of and she was I do history enough where I know that she was married to these two men and that she did make a vow of chastity. But okay, chastity and widowhood but I don't know about I mean, I I doubt all that other stuff like where they were, he was stalking her in a garden and shit like that was all real. But there was something that I read what was oh okay here after the Battle of lose. This is the author's no on the history. After the Battle of lose Simon de Mont for role rules England for over four years. During that time, he realized his dream of seeing plain men sit in Parliament. From each city and borough he had some in two to four good and loyal men to sit with the peers, the barons of the bishops and the knights to discuss the business of the realm. The story of Simon and Eleanor is one of the great love stories of the 13th century. They had five sons and then a daughter. Oh, they only Okay, after the Battle of blues men wrote poems in praise of Simon DeMontfort
Rachel:that Okay, love is a strong word
Margie:love is a strong word. And also if you wrote it this way, like written this way, it does not seem like love to me it seems like a highly volatile relationship between two people who are enormously as sexually attracted to one another, but don't know how to like interact as humans.
Rachel:Yeah, no, no I think all in all this is bad. This one counts as a bad it's
Margie:a bad it's it's and you know, listeners if you're curious about the ending just know like, they end up in England like with I don't want to say power but like, where they should be like where they were at the like, in a good place in a safe and secure place. Still fucking each other. Like
Rachel:still hating each
Margie:loss over the path past. The fact also that Simon de mon for and Henry Henry the third, were both highly anti semitic. So they were trying to kick out Jews left and right. Oh, okay. The racism comes in that there is racism. Hmm. Yeah,
Rachel:I bromance, am I right,
Margie:right. And I mean, is I got up to, you know, I'm gonna I'm still gonna say I finished this book because I skimmed through it. But like,
Rachel:I mean, that's fair. It's only half right. And that's
Margie:the thing. 500 pages and nothing happened. Like, yeah, like she got she got fucked over by men. The whole book. That is what happened. Yeah. And there's a lot of like, when so when she gets knocked over on her horse in the woods, and there's that whole thing where he saves her out in the woods. There's a lot of like her trying to get away from him because she's like, No, I have to get back to my castle. I've got to you know, people are going to be worried about me. And so she gets up on her horse, like very weakly she barely manages manages it because she's still recovering. And he like comes out of the lodge that they're saying and like buck naked and just drags her off the horse. Like physically and she's fighting him. And he's like, No, you are going to do what I say you are going to obey me because I am the man. Lot of that happening. Ah, yeah, yeah,
Rachel:yeah, that hurts me. Mm hmm. But physically hurts. Mm hmm. Geez says
Margie:Yeah. Oh, well see ever getting that? Oh, no, there's a whole other scene between between these two twins who are up Who are nights for Princess Eleanor and their fucking this maid named Brenda? And but they're taking turns within the same like few hour period. And they're twins so she can't tell them apart. So they'll be like it's so she'll be like, Oh, MC Come on. Let's try again. He's like no, no, it's Rick this time she's like, right, Rick, I thought I had your name right and she thinks it's the same dude. So she's having two different dudes fucker. Because they keep coming in and out of the room. And they like they don't tell her that they're two different people.
Unknown:What the fuck? Yes, that's
Margie:like a whole other thing that happens. Like I said the priest like fucks that. Oh, that same girl who was getting fucked by those two guys. She's the one who gets fucked in the conventional confessional booth by that the confessional booth by that fleabag and I'm pretty sure Oh, I should have said drugs. You were right. There are drugs with us? Because I'm pretty sure he's also dragging her up.
Rachel:Still wouldn't gotten a bingo. There's close
Margie:0000000 No, no, not Eva doesn't get rain or not rating yet doesn't get rated. Jesus.
Rachel:I know. You know, that makes the fact that you were reading since listeners we recorded these back to back obviously. But the fact that so we know what Margie was reading the fact that you were reading midnight in Chernobyl how after this just how
Margie:chemistry I mean, I just find it interesting. So well. Okay,
Rachel:so since we already know what you are, have been reading, do you have anything that you're going to be reading? Oh,
Margie:I was actually looking at my bookshelf over here trying to decide what I'm going to read next. I might read another Michael Crighton book called Rising Sun. Oh, yeah. When I was thinking about rereading a Game of Thrones, because actually, this book reminded me of a poorly written Game of Thrones, like all the sex all of the trying to character development but failing miserably. Like, just Yeah, yeah,
Rachel:yeah. See, I don't I don't like Game of Thrones. So I know. Like,
Margie:I know. Yeah, so anyway, um, but yeah, I don't know yet. Um, that's all I got.
Rachel:I'm exhausted. Well, yeah, I'm tired. That was terrible. It was awful listeners. I'm thank you so much for sticking with us. Yeah, that's fucking dumpster fire Jesus Christ.
Margie:Yeah,
Rachel:can we all right let's make it let's make a pledge next time not to pick books that were the same
Unknown:genre. Oh, god
Margie:that's hilarious though. Okay, all right. Well, thank you guys so much for listening and thank you to alien near you for the use of her song. Oh, love after out the album be held.
Unknown:Oh, yeah. Thank you.
Margie:Thank you, and we'll see you next time. I will, I promise Yeah, I will like thoroughly. Get all the way up into the in up in there up into the hills.
Unknown:Oh God, no, no. Oh, no.