Your co-hosts Margie and Rachel are dipping into the wild world of non-romance romance novels! All of the marketing of a romance novel, with almost none of the love! Crazy right? Listen in as Margie tells Rachel all about Carrie Vaughn's, Kitty and the Midnight Hour!
Your co-hosts Margie and Rachel are dipping into the wild world of non-romance romance novels! All of the marketing of a romance novel, with almost none of the love! Crazy right? Listen in as Margie tells Rachel all about Carrie Vaughn's, Kitty and the Midnight Hour!
Hello, and welcome to textual tension. I am your co host, Rachel and I pop on in here every other week to give you guys some updates, go through my usual spiel and then give you some info about this week's episode. So, hey, let's get right into it. Hey, coming up in the next week or two, we are actually having a Patreon live stream with our third to your patrons, if you want to jump in on that, because let me tell you, it is April asked, head on over to patreon.com/textual tension. And you can find all sorts of really fun goodies and stuff that we have, and that we post every other week, every time an episode comes out. And if you do support us already on Patreon, thank you, we really, really appreciate it and you allow us to do so much more than we normally would be able to. So sincerely thank you very much. And hey, if you're not in a position to support us on Patreon, that is 100%. Cool. But what you could do that would be really helpful is hey, maybe tell someone about us to talk to a friend about us. If you think they might like our show, and head on over to whatever pod chaser pod catcher, a third pod catcher you use. So like Apple podcasts or anything like that, and leave us a review. That really, really helps us. It helps us go up and standing and it helps more people, helps our show get out to more people. So that would be fantastic. And, hey, if you want to maybe chat with us see really neat pictures of things like flowers and books and us being dumb, and my cats. Check out our social media. We are textual tension pod on all of them their social media platforms. And we really like to hear from you guys. So I do my best to reply to almost every comment that we get and really just start chatting. Oh, and hey, why haven't mentioned it in a while, but we have a discord and we actually recently sort of restructured it a little bit. So head on over to that there's a link in on our Instagram, where you can access our Discord. And we have a lot of fun over there. We planned Yakuza, we talk about books a lot, DND I'll be doing some art streaming just for funsies hang out that kind of thing. So maybe check that out. That will be really cool. I'm trying to think anything else. I think that's just about it, at least for general updates. However, books, specific updates, just a heads up. This, this episode is fantastic. I really enjoyed it. However, we did miss a couple triggers, as we do sometimes. So just so you know, suicide is a trigger in this book. And we mentioned sexual assault, but there is like just rape in this box. So those are triggers. Just so you know, going into it. And outside of that, I think that's just about it. So hey, how about some romance novel wisdom to get you through your week? You're valid. No matter how many times the Highlander up the street tries to convince you to be His love slave. He has his own issues to work through.
Unknown:And there
Rachel:it is. So without further ado, here is episode A 66 snacker suffices Oh, tearing me apart from Spock.
Margie:Hello, and welcome to textual tension, a love hate relationship with romance novels. I am your co host, Margie.
Rachel:And I'm your co host Rachel every other week when
Margie:one of us reads and summarizes a book a romance novel but they read for the other unsuspecting goes we've only done this what
Rachel:it says 66
Margie:solely what she's I've done this 33 times, and together we unpack
Unknown:what the fuck just
Rachel:happened. That's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, we say that literally every time we record remotely and it's true.
Margie:It's true. It's beautiful every time because we're we're flawless and we know our value and our worth, yada yada yada and all fuckin professional. We are We are definitely fucking professionals.
Rachel:This one's going to be fun because I'm listening. I'm in a spicy mood. I have whiskey and haven't eaten dinner yet. So that's gonna go on rate. And also Yeah, and also Marty, you'll notice I'm recording in a different location than normal. That is because there is just a full gaggle of Girl Scouts that have set up in front of my house to hawk their their siren song and their wares. And there's just so much screaming and horn honking in front of my house right now. So if you hear cars honking their horn, it's the Girl Scouts. But at least you won't hear the screaming because I'm on the other side of this claimer. We
Margie:do love and support the Girl Scouts, but just not right in front of your
Rachel:hair just right and and to be fair Bitsy s thoughts. Their cookies are delicious. However, Margie I can only eat Okay, they're not bad. They're pretty they're okay. But Margie and I can only eat the not so great ones because there's only one gluten free one and it's basically just
Margie:Yeah. Like all right, Rachel, are you ready for this?
Rachel:I am Bitsy is to she's here.
Margie:I know came up my cat chemos here too. She's actually sitting right behind me now. So
Rachel:Oh good. I made I made a bed so that Betsy I knew she'd come up.
Margie:That was probably a really good idea. I should have done that. Um, yeah, this will work. Okay. All right. So where do we begin? Where do I even begin I think we begin Rachel with you opening up what the book looks like so I can tell you how I got this book because it's a rather interesting story.
Rachel:So this one was the one that originally was going to be with what the horror but we had some Yes, you
Margie:but they are we are going to be with what the horror Oh, just not for this one. Oh, hi.
Rachel:The book is called kitty and the midnight hour by Carrie Vaughn. And that is a couple Yeah, so she a radio host Okay, so it's a lady and you're looking at her back. And her she has a braid going down her hair and is wearing like a corset tank top kind of thing would honestly kind of a sexy top at least her left she's wearing leggings but because of the particular genre I'm assuming this book is I'm going to say they're probably leather. There is a very large full moon behind her a microphone on a boom arm in front of that with I should say the same shock absorbers that we use on ours are similar and a big big Wolfie boy
Margie:will be boy you mentioned the tramp stamp. Oh my god versus tramp stamp.
Unknown:Wow. Oh, I gotta get real close to see what this is. And it doesn't look
Margie:like anything
Rachel:it looks like just like a geometric triangle pointing right to the looks like an early 2000s tramps status sphere in the middle of it. Oh, it adds like late
Margie:90s, early 2000s which is never mentioned in the book. Yeah, yeah. Good. So it's just there for the esthetic Oh,
Rachel:yes. The Phantom trip stick.
Unknown:Oh, god. Um,
Rachel:okay. All right. So I have to mention I read the description. Whichever. Oh, there's not a lot here. Huh? Oh, God. This is a shift or one? Yep. Okay. Kitty Norville, which is a name is a midnight shift DJ for a Denver radio station called it and a werewolf in the closet. Her new late night advice show for the supernaturally disadvantaged is a raging success. But it's kitty who can use some help with one sexy werewolf hunter and a few homicidal undead on her tale. Kitty may have bitten off more than she can chew. I'm gonna go out on a huge limb here. And say that admitting to people that you're aware of is probably not the same as admitting to your family. You're gay. I just don't want that. That's like the ads that you've got that was comparing coming out to your family. as conservative as coming out to your family is great. Like, maybe naive to say,
Margie:like, no, don't use the same words entirely. Just say she has a baby. Just say she has a secret. Yeah,
Rachel:that's fine. That's a fine way to say it. Just don't make that analogy. Right. Oh, good.
Margie:And if only that was the worst thing about this book I have and I'm gonna explain how I got this book. This book was gifted to me by my friend Katherine, who is just a deer in a doll. And we both love reading and she's given me so many great recommendations. But we were doing this thing for a while where we were actually trading books. So she would mail me a book and I would mail her a book and we would have no look to one another. It's key. This has this book has notes from Katherine in it because she read it too.
Rachel:Oh, please feature them. Oh, hello.
Margie:Hi. Yeah, she's and listeners. keema is very much just like once it'd be involved today. She heard werewolf shifter and she was here for it. So yeah, and I and I had to also dis she the way that she found this is that she searched paranormal romance and this came up. There is not romance. Oh, no. Like there's some, but there's not there's sex. Yes, there is sex.
Unknown:Oh, Okay, well, good. Good. Yeah.
Margie:So let's get into those triggers say,
Rachel:Lord. I'm glad I'm in a spicy mood. Good. Good to be good. So
Margie:triggers animal violence cold slash show you're reading it off a list called authoritarian control. Sexual Assault, emotional manipulation, emotional manipulation. I think there's there's definitely some physical abuse in there. Now that I think about it. There's a confrontation with physical abuse. I should have made a bingo. Financial financial manipulation or abuse. Yeah,
Rachel:we're hidden. Oh,
Margie:and actually, I have a psych corner and I also have a science corner. Oh, yeah,
Rachel:you did. I know. What is the Margie science corner sound? It's got it can't be the lightning. It has
Margie:to be a wolf howling.
Rachel:Oh, it absolutely is going to be a wolf howling. Okay. 100%
Margie:Alright, so Rachel, I need you to visualize something for me. You are rows holding on to that damn door in the middle of the ocean. Okay.
Rachel:Get away Jack. There's not enough room for you.
Margie:If you try actually. Freeze, bitch. If you try to hold on to Jack, AKA your sanity while listening to this book, you will lose your damn mind. Okay. We'll both go down and we'll come down with me and I don't want you don't don't don't go down there with me. Okay, don't fall into Hades with me. Well,
Rachel:I guess Jack and I are gonna know I'm not gonna know and Jack is good this book I sorry, everybody Leo's go into
Margie:the no I made 15 minutes ago after finishing reading this book this afternoon. This is a plot wrapped inside a chalupa wrapped inside a Baja Blast with a 10 pack of chicken nuggies. It is buddy. I'm
Rachel:not gonna lie, though. What I captured from that is that one. I just really wanted to lupa, right.
Margie:Um, and this plot just goes everywhere. Like for one second you feel like you know what's happening and then you're like, Nope, that's a pair. Oh, there it goes. It's gone. We're gonna go. I'm
Rachel:so excited. All right, I am not gonna lie. I am super ready to just put a blindfold on be strapped into this roller coaster and just say fuck it. Let's go on an adventure with
Unknown:me. And he'll be
Margie:like, not like lycanthropy
Rachel:like, can't like.
Margie:Yeah. Okay. All right. So we have kitty, a short, petite, blonde haired werewolf, who also happens to host a radio show. Um,
Rachel:someone was not being subtle with their naming. Kitty the wearable where
Margie:she gets made fun of that. They're like when she first becomes a wearable. They're like, Oh, God, you're never gonna live that down.
Rachel:Oh, and she hoped by Katherine at that point.
Margie:She's been a werewolf for about three years now. And is part of like her local pack in Denver.
Rachel:Oh, yeah, sure. You know, yep. The, the the fight and Wolf Boys,
Margie:boys. Okay, they have sure originally this show for kitty. It's like just like a midnight couple of hours or like late night radio show. And she's really just supposed to play music requests. And she'll go on and say like, nothing before 1980. Okay, thanks, bye, or like, something like that. But there's one night that she tells her listeners that she's reading the worldwide news, which is kind of sounds like her world's version of Weekly World News where you see things like baby angel boards a couple during flight to Vancouver, like, you know, that kind of shit.
Unknown:Oh, that's, that's so good to
Margie:trashing it, right? Because she's like, Oh, my God, like, the stuff that they think is real is like not even close to what's actually out there. Um, so she's browsing through this magazine, and she's taking calls at work and someone calls and out of the blue asks, Hey, do you believe in vampires? And she responds with if I say yes. Will you tell me a good story? Which is a great response to that question as a radio host.
Rachel:Awesome response. Shit. Okay, so what you want about kitty, but she sounds like she's actually good at my job.
Margie:Yeah, so and that's just the beginning. We will get into that. But this begins a short banter with that caller which leads to another caller, which leads to another caller. And basically her whole show that night becomes a show about the paranormal and she like walks away and she's like shit, like, I didn't play music. Should I be concerned? Next so the next night she comes in for work. She's like expecting to get in trouble with her boss, but her boss actually He's like, Hey, we got a ton of calls last night whatever you did last night. Can you do it again?
Rachel:Yes. So I'm assuming then that the paranormal or not known to the gray or
Margie:not that is correct yes. So this brings in the on the birth of Kitty's new show the midnight hour like the title of the book where she talks about she takes calls from people who like either have questions about the supernatural whether exists or people who claim to be a part of the supernatural community. Okay, show is wildly popular to the point other stations are reaching out to syndicate Kate her show on their network. So she Yeah, she has damn Yeah. And Kitty is like, get a raise is awesome. I'm going to be making so much more money I wasn't making any before. And she really wants to go out and celebrate like with her, quote unquote friends, which but her friends are only in her wolf pack now. Yeah, so she meets up with another wolf, another werewolf named TJ. And he's in the same pack. But he's like more withdrawn. He's kind of leaning more towards the Wolfie side of things. Which means like, he doesn't really want to be human even anymore. But he's still like, cares about Yeah, I can't blame. I can't blame them for that. Like, look, here's my kitty. They're friends. He's really looked after her since she turned into a werewolf. And he's like, and she's like, I just want to go out and like dance and have fun. Let's celebrate. And he's like, Fine, I guess so.
Rachel:I'm feeling and US vibe with these two?
Margie:Nope, nope. No.
Rachel:Oh, okay, nevermind.
Margie:So he's kind of turning more to the Wolfie side of things she's trying Kitty is really trying to stay connected to the human world, which is why she does this radio show because other people in our pack just like it. It's a cult, like, so they just Oh, in the cold. Right? Good. And I actually this is when my psych corner comes in. I did a little research on colts because I was like, that was one of the notes that Catherine made all over this book. Was that because it's a cult? Why? Why is she doing this? Because it's like, oh,
Unknown:oh, no. Oh, no. So
Margie:one of the leading experts on cults and like author authoritarian, like, not ruling, but control has come up with this acronym called bite. And it stands Oh,
Unknown:that is so that that side effect that's not
Margie:so good. It stands for behavioral control, informational control, thought control and emotional control. So that's how cults get you in and there's all of these really interesting, like, is some of them are you would assume, okay, it's a cult. Yeah, they're gonna try to like get you into groupthink and stuff like that, but there's other stuff Nexium she's gonna you know, so I highly recommend reading more about it. If you have time. You can go to the freedom of mind resource center and then just look up Steven Hasson and he's the one who came up with bite and he is a he's an expert, quote unquote, on undue influence brainwashing and unethical hypnosis and author of the best selling book combating cult Mind Control, which sounds like such an interesting.
Unknown:I know. Oh, that's neat.
Margie:Yeah, yeah. So it's, he sounds like a dope, dude.
Rachel:I feel like and this is my very vague understanding. I feel like cult like quote unquote brainwashing is like, just, it's, it's like domestic abuse taken to the nth degree. Yeah, right. It's all that manipulation and all of that, but in a group setting, like it's kind of interesting. I mean, it's super interesting.
Margie:What was scary was one of the things I read was that if you think that you are not like, able to be in a cult, like, that would never happen to you surprise, you're the most vulnerable because you will never see it coming. You got to be and that's the same thing for domestic abuse. People never go out looking to be abused. You know, so absolutely, yeah. Good analogy will get you all right. So, um, but
Rachel:they're hiding there lurking in the shadows, Scientology
Margie:and I you know, the problem was, I wanted to like list out all the different signs that she was experiencing, but also in general, but there were literally too many. I was like, we'll sit here all day. Like one of the worst things that I absolutely hate. Is that the money from the syndication of our show, half of it goes to the pack. I hate that. Yes. Yeah,
Rachel:yeah, that's some tithing shit, but like, in a bad way
Margie:I hate it. So.
Unknown:Oh no. Um,
Margie:but back to the story. All right, we're back. TJ and Kitty decide to go out they're gonna go out to a local kind of dive bar and she's gonna dance and he's gonna flirt with boys there and it's gonna be a good old time.
Rachel:Okay, ah, at least okay shining moment there is
Margie:that trope where the gay person always dies anyway but that was kind of funny though.
Rachel:Very funny, but it was also there, up there. So they're
Margie:they're there
Rachel:that you've upset bit.
Margie:And she's kitty starts dancing, having great time. And of course she's, uh, me almost immediately accosted by a vampire because they're like, this is our turf. You're not supposed to be here. You're not a human. This is our place get out. She's like, come
Unknown:on. Hey,
Margie:I just wanted to have some fun I'm not here to like cause trouble and she looks over and TJ is being a constitute she's like great. He's no help. And because of her social ranking within like her own werewolf hierarchy she's kind of for she feels forced to be like very submissive to this vampire. Remember that thing about it being a cult? Do you remember how we talked about that? Because it's Oh,
Rachel:I here's intellectual. You've been over werewolf presumably living in the same city for three years? Shouldn't you know what's your turf and what's not?
Margie:This was I think this is a new place that opened so it was still kind of like quote unquote, unclaimed Okay, at least she had hope so and she was like, really? This is like one of the only places I could still go please can I just have this one? So she's now they're in trouble right because she like they're both being basically accosted it looks like there might be a confrontation in this club because the vampires kind of being dicks about it with thank goodness the pack leader the terrifying the menacing Carl shows up. Dammit, Carl I'm sorry car Oh is not a scary pack leader name. It's just not
Unknown:You can't kill people. kill people Carl. Carl that kills people.
Rachel:I've got a craving that only Hans will say.
Margie:Alright, so Carl shows up. He breaks up the Cold War in the club and they all leave Okay,
Rachel:good on you are all so now
Margie:our dear leader Carl is not happy about this radio show. He and kiddie ride in the car back to back sorry I'm
Rachel:just I'm I'm very disappointed in you sort of
Margie:Yeah, he a kiddie ride in the car back to quote unquote pack base. Well not quote unquote, because I don't call it that in the book. But that's what I'm calling it. And he's like, listen to quit. You need to quit your job and just totally join the pack for life. You know? Like just join us forever and be one of us. And she's like, um It was a coal.
Rachel:Okay. Yes. Want to make sure but what's he gonna do with that half of your money?
Margie:Exactly. Well, that's so that's one of the things she says to convince him like No, I still want to do this. Get half of the money but more shows that gets syndicated the more money you make.
Unknown:Okay, I hate Carl.
Margie:I know. So and Carl also says the local had vampire the local had vampire of the local vampire family. Arturo which is like a much more of a vampire name.
Rachel:Oh, wait, yeah.
Margie:He's pissed. And he goes he's like, I don't want this bitch kitty calling attention to our world. Okay, and so he's like, I don't want to quit. Please don't make me do this. By the way, I'm not gonna quit. She pretty she's like she's not gonna do it. And she's like, why are you trying to make me do this? Like, are you really gonna make me do this because Arturo told you that told you no. And he's like, Oh, Shire. i And Carl tries to frame it as is it so unbelievable that I could have your best interests at heart. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Rachel:How many? How many threatening calls from vampires do you think Art Bell got with his coast to coast with our bell about all the supernatural shit like shit in Chicago that show there's there is a show. A radio show called coast to coast and with art I think was called coast to coast with Art Bell and it was all like people calling in and telling their weird creepy stories and like all crazy stuff about like, like this is very much an art Bell coast to coast radio show that's what she's doing I have people calling in and telling their stories. Oh, it's it's like it was a wildly popular show like crazy it was in Chicago actually based in Chicago. It's
Margie:the same universitari dress Did you can't convince me otherwise
Rachel:fair. Yeah.
Margie:So So I hate Carl. I just want to make that very clear. I hate him. But because
Rachel:of seems like a raging because, kiddies no offense to be Linus is
Margie:because of kitties internal wolf needs to make the pack happy she basically begs him to let it stay on the air and he agrees.
Rachel:Internal wolf nice yeah, in turn are warming cold.
Margie:Yeah, yeah, just wait, we're getting to that too. Yeah, but in the midst of making making up he forces her to change into a wolf. They do the super creepy wolf fight where she basically becomes a submissive she Wolf and that they have sex Oh, shit. Wait, but you said wait.
Rachel:That Okay. I will admit, that is absolutely not the direction I expected that to go in. intellectual question. Real question actually. Did they have sex as well?
Margie:No. I think okay, well, that changed back they lose like playful wolf they which was really weird to read. And then they changed back into humans and had sex.
Rachel:You know, orangey I could be wrong. I think this might be a call.
Margie:Okay, so now, when I get into Margie science corner, oh, I just want to start straight off with alpha wolves do not exist. They have never existed. They are not a thing. This theory. This is all about wolves. Oh, I'm so happy I left. So this theory was first presented by David mech or Meech, I don't know if I'm probably not pronouncing that correctly. In 1977. The whole alpha wolf thing right. And he has literally been trying to get it debunked for years. Like he has come out and said him I was wrong. I was incorrect. Basically, what he had done was he had made his assumptions based off of wolves in captivity. But wolves in the wild behave actually as male female Duo's and so they like just they distribute the labor of rate rearing children raising children and but also have like, you know, bet all best interests at heart so, and hold on one sec. The prevailing view of a wolf Canis lupus PAC is that of a group of individuals ever vying for dominance but held in check by the Alpha pair the alpha male the alpha female. Most research on the social dynamics of wolf packs, however, has been conducted on non natural assortments of captive wolves. In the study, he describes the Wolfpack social order as occurs in nature, discuss the Alpha concept and social dominance and submission and present data on the precise relationships among members in free living packs. Based on literature review and 13 summers of observations of wolves on Ellesmere Island.
Rachel:That's yeah,
Margie:I include that the typical wolf pack is a family with the adult parents guiding the activities of the group and a division of labor system and which is a female predominant predominates primarily in such activities as pup care and defense, and the male primarily during doing foraging and food provisioning and the travels associated with them. Yeah,
Rachel:that's amazing. Yeah, that's so cool. So I, I, I love wolves like just because they're such interesting creatures, like from that dynamic and perspective, but I even I, I completely thought that like an alpha male, female kind of thing was a thing. I had no idea. The more you know, the more you know.
Margie:And it's, um, this study came out in 1999, after over 20 years of the Alpha Wolf flash male belief kind of having ingrained itself in our society. And that was published this book in 2005. So I can't like I'm not gonna bash her because like, the Internet was not what it was back then. But like, I just want everyone to know that this whole awful wolf thing is bullshit.
Rachel:That's absolutely incredible. And I had no idea and like, Absolutely, like, I think she there's no way there is a way for her to know I don't think it's unreasonable for her to like not have gone and done that sort of deep research to find out but at the same time, it's really amazing to me how 20 years of something like that can be can make something be so ingrained in pop
Margie:culture. Yes. And I that is amazing. And as a last note on that I highly recommend watching there's a video on YouTube Adam Ruins Everything called alpha males do not exist. And it's great. And it breaks down all of that. And then it goes into like human psychology and it's just awesome. So that's how I first learned. So that
Rachel:was that that was a quote from the scientist.
Margie:So I guess so the cutting above that was from the actual study. And you can also find that a little. That's where I found it. So
Rachel:cool. You're gonna say it. Yep.
Margie:Okay, so now that I've gone through and debunked all of this alpha bullshit, let's watch kitty climbed the wolf hierarchy I mentioned before in her pack, Kitty is basically just a baby. Well, she's very low on the totem pole. And that's never really bothered her. She doesn't like the fact that she's feels like she's forced to be submissive, I feel like, but she's like, I don't want to be in charge. either. That's yeah.
Rachel:Is it? Is it safe to assume that they're going to explain how and why she became aware? Yes, later.
Margie:Yes. So we're actually going to get into that a little bit. Now. She absolutely hates the guy who changed her. His name is Zan, and he has a thing for kitty sounds like it. Yeah. And he's a crate. So the next full moon, the whole package gets together to go like running off into the woods and do wolfy things just wolfy things.
Rachel:Just god dammit Moon Moon,
Margie:the next full moon when the pack chains joins together to change like shift into werewolves, because that's the only night that they actually have to shift us on the full moon. But they can do whatever, they can do it. So Zan is like hey, run with me. And Kitty is like no and back the fuck off. I don't want to be around you. Okay, egg who is the who is the alpha female of the pack and the mate of Carl so there is a little bit of that, you know?
Unknown:Uh huh. Yeah,
Margie:yeah, yeah, gives kitty a chance to back out of a fight with ZAN. But kitty refuses she's like No, he's pissing me off. I want I want him to leave me alone. Like I mean on
Rachel:one hand good on her but I know and also and I was gonna say but but no, this is an and you know a bit just like pitches like being forced into transformations into werewolf. Well, not that I'm sure she'll love me after that. Yeah,
Margie:well, so he he does transform her she didn't know what happened at the time when she was doing it's more right now. He's like, Come on, let's go and like run into the woods and probably like end up snuggling together at the end of the night and she's like fuck that now. Okay. Yeah. All right, so any fights Zan, and everyone is shocked because she wins. Hell yeah. That changes the social hierarchy of the pack though, because he was like several steps above her. And dominance.
Unknown:Nice. Yeah. Cool Girl when
Margie:they all wake up the next day, so they all change then like doing their will just wolfy things. They're all clustered together naked in the woods. Yes. Yeah, Rachel, do you have a question? Yep. Okay,
Rachel:I'll leave that for a second. Did they fight it will form or in human form? Yeah. Okay.
Margie:They should form she won the fight and then they went like running she went running off into the woods.
Rachel:Okay, I was gonna say if you want to really think about it in another fucked up not fucked up. But in another way. They were just naked humans but with her. Yep. They thought is naked humans but in will form so.
Margie:TJ they all they so like I said, they're all clustered together naked in the woods, basically like a group snuggle.
Rachel:This is a call.
Unknown:I think it might be a coal. Oh, shit.
Margie:So her friend She's snuggled up with CJ and I think that like she's in between TJ legs.
Rachel:It's fine, because he's
Margie:gay. And TJ is like, please don't keep doing this show. It's changing you like you're becoming you know, a stronger person.
Rachel:How dare you become a stronger person kitty
Margie:because she keeps doing the show for her.
Rachel:So
Margie:it's another night another show. I don't know how much time has passed. Exactly. But kitty gets the call is an illusion of her life. Someone calls and says, Hey, I know who you are. I know what you are. And I am on my way up with a gun and I'm going to kill you. This is live on air.
Rachel:Okay, Color me intrigued Kitty
Margie:is actually amazing. When this is happening. So on his way up in the elevator to you know, kill her. She stays on air the entire time. And she's like, Hey, you didn't know that. Even though you got paid for this. You were still being super manipulated, right? Because like whatever happens here, even if you kill me, they're just gonna make it out to seem like you're some crazy dude who just came in and shot me and then you're gonna go into jail for the rest of your life.
Rachel:But she doesn't ever admit to being aware of what she does. She
Margie:does during this exchange. That's what I was about to say she does admit she's like, yep, you're right. I am a werewolf like, that's why you're coming to kill me. How did you find out what hand?
Rachel:That's a bad idea. On the other hand, I could see everyone listening thinking that this is just a really elaborate read. Yeah, yeah. And honestly, I enjoy listening to it sounds fun.
Margie:It's bananas, man. So, so this guy this assassin, he's like, Huh, you may actually be right.
Unknown:Huh? All right, Vaughn.
Margie:I won't kill you. If you agree to not press charges because the police are on their way at this point. Because they're live on air. Yeah. Yeah. He and she's like, Sure, well, won't press charges. It's chill that, you know, tried to kill me. And she knows that he was really legit because she can when he gets off the elevator, she can smell silver bullets. So she's like, Oh, shit. He really meant he knew what he was doing. Um, so Kitty has outed herself as a werewolf to the world. So wolves out of the bag now.
Rachel:Honestly, the thing that's most amazing is that they were able to fit that wolf in that bag.
Margie:Okay, so Carl, our favorite cult leader. Carl,
Rachel:he's aware llama and you cannot convince me otherwise he's aware llama that was fucking fake ears. Well,
Margie:he's a bit of a bitch. So. So Carl comes and picks her up later from the police station cuz she's like, made a statement and done all that stuff. And he's like, you're done. You're not doing the show anymore. Quit. It's over. And she doesn't. She just keeps doing the show. Despite what he says.
Unknown:Go girl. Guy. No.
Rachel:Fuck that alpha wolf. Bullshit. Right? Well, fucking in so well. Okay, not because they had sex. But you know, we're
Margie:here we go. Okay, so remember what I said about the plot? Do you remember that?
Rachel:I do. But Margie, I'm out of whiskey. What am I?
Margie:Nuts a lot. Okay, so kitty technically doesn't know who's behind the attack. But she has her suspicions. She's pretty sure that it's that head of the local vampire family. Arturo. She's like, he probably he probably did it like to warn everybody else who might want to do the same thing. She's like, I want to go and question him. I want to go and talk to him. I just want to figure out what he did. And she goes up to TJ and is like, Listen, can you help me? Can you be my backup for this? Can you be my friend and TJ is like no and I'm gonna forbids you from going because even though I'm more dominant than you in this social hierarchy of wolfpack, because that's, that's maybe a cult.
Rachel:Oh my god, you're right. And honestly, that's not at all a tenuous grasp on power.
Margie:Not at all. Like kitty tries to go on her own Anyway, she's like, okay, I guess I'll just do this alone. And TJ finds her as she's on her way there and straight up attacks her for disobey him. Hell yeah. I say I'll say Cole.
Rachel:You know, you haven't mentioned it before, but I think you might actually be right.
Margie:It's so that scares the shit out of her because she's, she's on her way there to Arturo's and she's like, I can't do this alone. And I certainly can't do it if my own you know, pack, like doesn't have my back so she just she turns around, she leaves she kind of forgets about she tries to forget about her. But then another vampire named Rick shows up at Reno Rick the vampire
Rachel:sorry, but Oh good. Oh, like I get that they're just supposed to be normal ass guys. But like, I don't know. This is my this is my alpha wolf pack leader, Karl Karl and his friend, Rick,
Margie:a local vampire coven. So Oh, sorry. They went off. Get your werewolf vampire politics straight
Rachel:up. I mean, at least calm like Richard like Richard Sandler Ricardo like a vampire. Ricard.
Margie:Yeah. Yeah, honestly. Yeah. If he was Richard that he had to be dick.
Rachel:It's like if the entire Twilight series had ad colon instead of Edward. That is the analogy.
Margie:But Carl, it's while Oh
Rachel:my god. I know what you are. Say it. And you're a vampire. Like come on top
Unknown:of the world. Alright, terrible. You already know hit me so
Margie:This other vampire wreck shows up at her studio with actual evidence that Arturo did order the attack on her. So it's a thing.
Rachel:Yeah. Okay. And he's like, Hey,
Margie:I helped you out. Can you help me out? I'm looking for this guy. His name is preacher Elijah. If you get calls about him you hear stuff about him. Remember that thing I said about the plot holding on to that door? Are you holding on? I like still trying
Rachel:to hold on. But I like him.
Margie:I like frozen stuff. There's not enough room on that door. According
Rachel:to visit try it ice cube in the in in the in the gin and tonic of life.
Margie:That it's so dark. I don't really have much respect for Leonardo DiCaprio anyway, so like, we're just gonna Oh, no, wait, is he dating girls who are like 20 and 21. Oh, yeah, I forgot. So he's like, not an asshole yet. But he's like, toeing that line.
Rachel:Oh, yeah. He's he's on that. Like, he's not technically a pedophile. Anyway, so. So we're looking for a dude named preacher, Elijah, which also is not what you call preachers. Like father she want to be
Margie:fine have a little bit of stuff to give to quarterback like stuff that she's heard. So she's not McCormack core rhetoric. And guys, she passes it along to Rick, she's like, this is the stuff that I've heard. Like, basically, he's claiming that it can cure people a vampire ism and, and like, like, can't I can't say the word like an author. Like, up like,
Rachel:faith here. I mean, honestly, if vampires and werewolves exist, why not angels?
Margie:So
Rachel:Cana Los Angels
Margie:show. Okay, so this is just a note that I have to make because this plot is bananas. Like we have to put a little bit of romance in their light, right, you know, beyond the pure cold romance, just sex. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't know that listeners are shipping, Cormac, you know, the guy who tried to kill kitty, and Kitty to
Unknown:go. Okay, so
Rachel:legit question though. Like, what was the fallout of that? Did people just think it was a bit
Margie:there wasn't really any fallout. So she doesn't press charges against core Mac. So I'm not sure if that's how laws work. So Cormack calls the show and it's like, you need to stop these people from shipping us and she's like, aren't you listening? I'm trying.
Rachel:That's hilarious. Actually. I like that.
Margie:You're ready for some more polite,
Rachel:Huh? Huh? Has there been any good question.
Margie:Kitty is now called to aid in a murder investigation.
Rachel:I scared you away. This is your fault.
Margie:Worth it. So she's calling kiddies called to aid in a murder investigation? It's an 18 year old prostitute ripped to pieces good. I should say it's an 18 year old female prostitute do the police believe that she's aware they now do they're like Well, you said on air that you're a werewolf and this looks like very creepy and animalistic and not natural. So yeah, okay.
Rachel:Okay. I listened to enough true crime to know that the police aren't going to be like oh shit, but she said she was a well we have to believe her Rachel Wood
Margie:it don't you understand? Understand what to say about this.
Rachel:Okay, so what you're saying is it would be really bad for me to admit here in this microphone that's right in front of my face right now that I'm 600 years old.
Margie:Well, that would also be a lie, though. Because you're a mermaid.
Rachel:Syrah mochi mermaid is really informative. You know, I don't like it right.
Margie:I'm sorry. That was so derogatory.
Unknown:Oh, yes. Littering
Margie:led to the deaths.
Rachel:You know, in Ohio famous code upside, date and famous coastal city
Margie:virus. So she can't he gets there. And she does tell the police. She's like, Yeah, it's definitely a werewolf. It's not someone from my pack, but it's a werewolf. This is like a rogue werewolf, which is super weird. It does not usually happen. So
Rachel:yeah, because the police have just suddenly believe in everything. Fine. Makes sense. Honestly, that's what's wrong with the police isn't these days.
Margie:So now Kitty is a bit of a bind because she knows that there's this rogue werewolf out there like wreaking havoc, and she knows that she has therefore she has to tell her pack leader that this is happening. Is this apply? Do you smell? Do I smell it? You might Oh my You might?
Unknown:Wow. Spotted she
Margie:also knows that he's pissed at her because she disappointed this debate is ruling to quit the show.
Rachel:So I hope she just doesn't tell him no.
Margie:In the end. She does go to Carl and maglich she shows up at their house and starts the conversation like very submissive and it's just really pissed in Carla's pista her as as Meg and to teach her a lesson Carl pulls kitty into a back room of their house to have his wolfy way with her. And to remind her of her place I think this might be a cold Oh shit. I don't think I don't recall them actually having sex at that point. I think that like they get close and they don't have sex. So he just tortured No, no, he likes to do says her he like tries to get her like, Hi wild. She'll say, well, mega thrilled but magazines like Oh, but he's like pack leader. So again, alpha dominance. Exactly. And also, that's when Carl reveals to Kitty like when they're in their back room together. That it was Meg who also paid Arturo to pay core Mac to kill kitty.
Unknown:Okay this is a talk of a close Oh, no,
Rachel:you know what, just for funsies I'm gonna real quick make this a little bit more complicated. Which is to say I would bet that Meg use the money that kitty gave to the pack to pay our Tara to pay Cormac to kill kitty. So technically, Kitty paid to kill herself. Oh
Unknown:my god.
Margie:I don't know. I just know that Meg betrayed kitty because she was jealous of the attention that Carl had been giving kitty lately. I think that's might be a colt.
Rachel:Um, so, Carl, Carl. Look, I love what you've done. You have a great call going pretty sure to call now and have some chairs. We're gonna roll with
Unknown:the fact that he calls the Colts.
Rachel:But like, like, dude, if you're gonna have this really awesome, tight grip on everyone in your cult, you should probably make sure that one of them specifically your mate isn't going to get jealous and try to kill the other members of your call because that's not a good look for you. It's not a good look for you dude, but it makes it look like maybe you're not omniscient in all power. Well, so and I know that's important.
Margie:Carl has a counter plan which is Carl is like Hey kitty, you could challenge Meg and become my mate.
Rachel:How many other call members has he been Bono like all
Margie:of them? Except he's straight? So probably only the female members as far as I know.
Rachel:So why is Katie
Unknown:special because she has a radio show.
Rachel:Oh yeah the radio show Bitches love right
Margie:Yeah, right. So Kenny doesn't really give Carlin answer she's just like a what the book and she pushes her way out of the bedroom and after a brief conversation with Meg where she's like, Listen, I don't want to fight you I'm not in the mood for this. Whatever the fuck is going on between you two I just want to get out of here. So she leaves at the next pack me entrance form, which is like kind of like a coconut okay,
Rachel:you cannot convince me otherwise this is a fucking Voltron Wolfpack.
Margie:What does that mean?
Rachel:It means that one of them is like four of them are each the legs of the old one of them is the tail one of them is the body and one's the head and it's just fucking Voltron and wolf form. Sure, Jesus
Margie:at the next pack, meet and transform Meg tries to have another confrontation with kitty. I know where to start. So like she Meg is like I want to assert my dominance I want to control you basically because you know this might be a cold
Rachel:That's really rude because Agnes went to all the trouble to make her like famous ham salad and how dare you How dare with everything it was bag. Oh, love. I don't get that right. That reference, but yep, I now we can hashtag at one. One division division.
Margie:Yeah. Kitty rations. So Kitty actually isn't having any of it though. She's like, I don't want to fight you. I have no interest in being any sort of pack leader. I just want to have my radio show. Can you leave me alone please? She should just go off in Lone Wolf. But well, for what I recall. Nothing really happens. Meg is still leader of the pack like cuz, like not really interested in into it. And kitty tries to retrace her life. All right, right. Ready, Rachel, are you ready for a side plot? So side by side plot that is actually important. I try to get through it as quickly as I can. Good give me the cliff night kid he gets a call from a frantic female vampire during her show who was trying to run away from this guy called Elijah Smith remember that preacher at the beginning of the book
Rachel:you know it's a really good idea calling a public on live on air radio show it's great.
Margie:Um so the cult like I said this cult leader has been claiming to his followers that he can cure their vampire ism or like like Anthropy like like Kanda three with up with them. They can't they're Pain ridiculous anyway, but this girl is actually running away from Elijah after having followed him for some time and now her vampire tendencies are coming back because she left Elijah. And she left because she felt like she was being controlled by him. So she was like, I didn't want that. I was controlled by one person my whole life. I don't need it again.
Rachel:So
Margie:then kitty gets a call from someone else on the show. It's this girl's vampire master Arturo. And Arturo wants this girl actually her name's Estelle to return to Him. And so now it's like this weird conference call with Estelle Arturo and Kitty of all on the lines. While cells desperately trying to get away from preacher, Elijah, right. So then kitty also gets quarterback on the phone. Okay, look, this girl needs help. Can you get out there? Can you go help her? And so now it's Estelle the girl who's in trouble. Cormac and Oturu and Elijah all converging on this girl. There's this big quotation, Estelle has put in between Arturo and Elijah. And somehow it happens that she kills herself. Oh, suicide that should have been a trigger. No shit.
Unknown:Yeah. Okay, good. Good. Fan. tastic
Margie:it's not clear exactly how and Arturo is pissed because he's like, killed my child. This was a member of my family. Um, this ends up being slightly beneficial unfortunately to Kitty though cuz she tried her best. She was really upset. She really tried to like save Estelle and it didn't work out.
Rachel:That still is a good vampire name way fucking better than like Rick or whatever the
Margie:and Arturo actually visits kitty at her job like a couple days later, and is like thank you for doing your best to save her. You know, and I did contract Cormac with Meg to kill you. That's all true. Sorry. I tried to get killed. He said he was like I wanted the radio show done. But you and I are chill now. We're cool. Like, you're cool. But now Kitty is pretty pissed and terrified, because she was like, I thought that Meg had done that. But now I know for sure. Like,
Rachel:it's Yeah. And I imagine that like, she's having this moment of like, wow, like, this pack really isn't out for my best interest. And I should probably leave it. And it's gonna be hard for her because like I imagined like, I know, it's kind of a stretch, but I would like in half like, and like, it was good.
Margie:It was good. I can't say it.
Rachel:Just like I would like in her. Her leaving the pack to like someone trying to leave maybe like an hour or something like, like next. Very fast. I know. It's a stretch happen. So
Margie:Oh, um, so now Katie, she's pretty freaked out too, because she's like, okay, like, I really have no one on my side right now. Because I'm not good with the vampires like they're chill with me, but it's not great. I'm not cool with my own pack. I really don't have any friends right now. And then to make matters worse, she's attacked by Isaiah and on her way home. He was trying to assert his dominance in the pack. Zan Come on, Dan. got damaged laces, but then get your shit together. Jay ends up showing up and killing him. So that's a problem that's on TJ well, but he kills TJ kills and right in front of our apartment block. And she's like, You know what, fuck this. And she just goes, I think she just yeah, he just goes upstairs to our apartment. She's covered in blood and she's like, No, fuck this shit. I'm so Kitty is in shock in her apartment. Bleeding and just horrified from the whole thing the attack death, whatever. When core Mac shows up and is like, Hey, you okay? Because there's a body outside. You're covered in blood and you left your door open.
Rachel:I have questions what most importantly, how does he know where she lives? Magic. Okay, because because if she if he knew where she lived, why the fuck did he show up on and live on air radio station to try to kill her. I don't know.
Margie:Arturo asked him to do it that way. You know, just vampire things.
Unknown:Okay, sure.
Margie:So he like starts crying because trauma. And this because weak little girls we get the tragic origin backstory. Okay, so sure, the way that kitty became a werewolf was she was dating a guy and was on a date with a guy in Estes Park, and he was driving her home and he ended up just taking her to a secluded part of the woods and raping her. There's sexual assault there. Good. Yeah, you got it. That's sort of happened. So she actually gets out of the car after it's over. And he take the guy takes off and now she's lost and alone in the dark in the woods. And she's like, I guess I'll just like wait until a jogger shows up. Tomorrow morning, like, and they can call the police. So that's when Zan as a wolf finds her in turn and bites her and turns her into a werewolf as you do.
Rachel:I mean, honestly, that's my first reaction to finding someone lost and like traumatized in the woods is ooh, I bet they'd like to be a monster.
Margie:Like a werewolf.
Rachel:I bet that would do a like wonders for their self esteem right now speaking
Margie:of self esteem, Jesus. So now, back to the present day. Court bullies segways bad sideways core Mac takes off her like, cleans off her wounds, like gets her all patched up. They kiss and she tries to get see me and he's like, Oh, no, you're a werewolf. Do you see? That's where the romance is? Rachel. That's the row man. Oh, shit. That's
Rachel:good. Honestly, though, like, based on some of the books we've read. Yeah, that's real man. So
Unknown:who know
Margie:tries to leave but the police arrive like right when he's leaving. There's like, they're like, hey, about that dead body right in front of your apartment building. What's the doodle? See Daisy?
Unknown:doodly doo doodly doo.
Margie:somehow, miraculously, she gets off for the murder downstairs scot free. Wait,
Rachel:but she didn't do it. TJ did she didn't do it. But
Margie:there was blood evidence on her person. And like odd his nails because he trades back okay, back into human
Rachel:rule number one shower motherfucker.
Margie:That would have made
Rachel:Jesus. Yeah.
Margie:And also there would have been closed in her apartment like or whatever. Blood. So Right. So and the police were like, Hey, we know you know who actually murdered that guy. So don't go looking for him. Okay, like don't, I'm not gonna we're not gonna be to protect you. She actually has a lawyer and the lawyer is like, I'm not gonna be able to protect you. If those real fucking fast. Cormac recommended this guy to her is this the next day or didn't know just because they were like at the same station. So he was like, I guess I'll represent you too. That's how lawyers work. That's how lawyers work.
Rachel:Yeah, makes me yep, yep. King sand.
Unknown:Goodbye Jack. I always loved you
Margie:your husband's gonna be like luck is happening up there.
Rachel:Okay, God he might be making shrimp for dinner right now which is good because I might need more whiskey and he had to glass
Margie:Alright, so um
Unknown:you know how 530
Margie:The lawyer said don't go looking for the guy who murdered that other guy.
Rachel:Marty to Chico place okay, and he said she knew it was it was TJ who's like gay it awesome and gonna die.
Margie:Well so she talks to TJ and he's like look, I'm going to run off into the woods I'm going to go full wolf for a while since you know I murdered a guy and just like maybe come back when this all blows over.
Rachel:Honestly solid plan because they're not going to convict a wolf of
Margie:oil so also they're like he they have like superpowers so they can run super fast and like you can probably get away and live in the woods forever. So yes, now ready share Kitty is really sad because she's like, I literally don't have a friend in the world right now. Like I have no one in my pack. I've lost my best friend. He's gone off to do just wolfy things.
Rachel:You have McCormick paprika.
Margie:You're right she she does have a record now. But yeah.
Rachel:That really cool record but yeah, even really
Margie:a friend remember their first encounter he tried to kill her and then would they kiss? He was like, Ooh, you're a werewolf. Gross.
Rachel:Yeah, but like they kissed and isn't that what friends do? Hey, Margie. I've always thought of you as my own personal time.
Unknown:Oh, my, my my dear sweet Bailey frauds.
Margie:Okay. All right. So, right. So Kitty actually like after that whole police thing she after seeing TJ she just goes home and goes to sleep. She's like, I hope I wake up
Unknown:saying no, I want it done.
Margie:And the next day is surprised that she's like, Hey, everything is sort of okay this is miraculous. Alright, I guess I'll go alive. Yeah, cuz she's like Megan's gonna kill me something's gonna happen like it's it's all coming together for me and so but she gets a call at work the next guy and it's this guy James. And James over the phone is basically like, Yes, I am a werewolf i I crave violence.
Rachel:I crave. I crave blank manifests.
Margie:So after the show is over kitty calls Cormac and is like, Hey, I found our karoq Crazy werewolf. Do you feel like doing Some murder tonight
Rachel:that is quite the assumption to jump to okay oh shit this guy like called and like seemed kind of says that's like a fucking among us level like Oh nah dude totally so Italy's us he read was not the imposter so from the
Margie:caller ID that they get at the radio station because this is how science works core McInerney traced this rogue werewolf to an address and when they get there the guy James is like whoa your kitty oh yeah I totally murdered all those people but I did it because that chick Meg that you know yeah she wants me to usurp your pack leader and become pack leader myself. Does this make sense?
Rachel:No, but it's not your fault. Yes, I mean it does it makes sense in a yarn on a on a cork board kind of way.
Margie:So Kitty chases this guy down is a werewolf in the woods. They fight she kills him.
Rachel:Her Yeah, not gonna be a fucking good pack leader. Hmm
Margie:right Nope. Alright, so at quarterback drops her off her apartment. And she like she goes to sleep again. She wakes up and she's like, I'm not dead.
Unknown:Oh my god. Wow. And then
Margie:he goes to see Carl and she's like, Look, your lady tried to have me killed and she was gonna try and have you killed so that this crazy dude could take over your pack? Can we please get rid of her now? I know. Carly, your mate or whatever, but I don't want her around. And Meghan then shows up after Carl and she doesn't confirm or deny any of this. What she does do which is actually kind of clever as she grovels like Carl's fee and it's like begs him to fight kitty on her behalf
Rachel:Oh kitty it murder this motherfucker. Your name is way better as a pack leader than car
Margie:well, I mean like low bar but um, I mean fair, but that works. So kitties forced basically try and fight both of them. But the guests who shows up
Rachel:oh my god. Is it basil?
Margie:TJ Oh, remember what I said at the beginning about like spices like gay sacrifice.
Unknown:Okay snack. Yeah,
Margie:so um, Carl rips out T J's guts like his organs.
Rachel:How fucking dare he be care?
Margie:How dare Okay, let's
Rachel:your 100% stupid if it was 100% Stupid, sarcastic bullshit because I myself am bisexual. So
Margie:and the there is this thing where it's like in media where the gay character is sacrificed or dies on behalf of like the growth of the main character and it's bullshit and I hate it and I'm tired of it. Fuck that shit. It's just really stupid. So after TJ dies and kitties arms, Carl kicks kitty out of the werewolf pack dude.
Rachel:Honestly, best case scenario not with him die die. What was her not having to deal with the crate?
Margie:Well, so at the end of the book, I met Pat. So at the end of the book, Kitty is on the road traveling from station to station doing her show. And she's gonna keep all of her money because she doesn't have to get I think it's a cult tude because she had to give her money back to the pack. I think that pack is actually a cold.
Rachel:No, no, it's not a call, Margie. It's just a collection of people that really enjoy sharing their money together and also enjoying each other's company. How dare you insinuate that the thing that I am a part of is a cult.
Margie:Are you in Scientology?
Unknown:I'm clear. She's
Margie:so but at the end of the book, she is called to Congress to answer questions about vampirism. Like lycanthropy okay can throw up like Anthropy lycanthropy and other paradigm and throw up okay,
Rachel:I have questions one where the fuck was the Romans? I really honest like
Margie:Romans according to my friends.
Rachel:Oh 100% I still shipped McCormick like fucking rosemary and yeah, and her but um, Rick actually kind of said that into get together but to if every if Congress believes like, let's get it straight America's fucked anyway. But if Congress believes everything that is said on a fucking radio show, then we are extra double plus fucked.
Margie:Yeah. So honestly, I'm like that bothers you. I'm like, No, that does not surprise me at all. Yeah, drink more. So and by the way, there are 10 books in this series. Yeah. That was Book One, obviously. Okay.
Rachel:I am very curious about the sex and how it's described because like this book I truly believe that the only reason it was marketed as quote unquote romance is because there happened to be sex in it. And because there happened to be sex, the author was probably like, Oh, I bet I can get this audience and market it towards even though there's not really a romance in it. So I'm very curious to see that bridge because like, I bet they describe the SEC someday. Um, as far as I remember,
Margie:they do I we will. We'll pop we'll do it in under the covers. So let's do some reviews say Yeah. I
Rachel:I honestly legitimately don't want don't know what to make of this
Margie:book. I feel exactly the same way doesn't either. So I have so we're just gonna review kitty because, um, she
Rachel:isn't a really a lover like, there's Carl.
Margie:Carl was a douche a put a baby douche canoe. So I'm not we're not reading Carl. We're not dating or not dating rating McCormick and schmick or dating. Because he's we also don't really see him much in the book. And there really isn't an established romance. So I'm just gonna write kitty. And I will give her like a five point Wait, no, no, no, it's one out of five. Come on merging one.
Rachel:I'm gonna ever get your shit together.
Margie:Somewhere between three and four. Okay, really nice. That's good. That's completely from her point of view. Like you understand all of her decisions. And she's like a strong character because she stands up against this. I can't believe I'm gonna say this a colt, essentially. Yeah. And it's like, no, I'm gonna do my own.
Rachel:I'm so surprised you made that? No,
Margie:I know. So, the plot, is it even a plot? You know, I think that there isn't? Well, I think if Kerry had chose pick one, if she had picked the rogue, werewolf causing trouble or pre geologic causing trouble, and focused on that it would have been much better. But she she needed to pick one. There was too much going
Rachel:on. Absolutely. And I think that if, if you want to be generous, and pick out a single plot, it would be Kitty's life essentially which like, is fine. I'm it's like, a cabling had to make this analogy. But it's almost like a Ghibli thing where it's like there's not, which is a very Japanese thing where it's like, there's not a conflict. It's just, this is, you know, a slice of life kind of thing. But in this case, it was like they tried to marry the two between, although there are all these conflicts, and also it's a slice of life, and you can't really do one of the other I
Margie:know you're not a fan of the series, but I love it. And deep down in my whole soul. The black hole of my soul is Harry Dresden. It does remind me a lot of Harry Dresden. Just the main she kind of did. She's not a Harry Dresden. It's much more of like a how much can we destroy Harry Dresden physically, emotionally, psychologically, in this one book, and in this book, it was more like, how? How is she going to stand up against her wolf pack? Which
Rachel:is, right. I think that if even if they if they had took, like taken that position, it would have been way better. Like, even with Harry Dresden, like, Yeah, I'm not a fan of the books. But even those books, at least the first one, which I've read, there was a defined, he is trying to figure out this thing and the problem, and there's something to move towards your plot. In this one, it was like they couldn't decide between, I'm going to make this character driven versus I'm going to make this plot driven, right? Like, even if you have a plot driven book, you can make amazing character development and vice versa. Like you can have a character focus book that has some interesting plot things happen. But you can't you have to commit to one or the other. Right. And I feel like they just never converted.
Margie:Yes, that that. And I think that they were trying to smush in too many ideas into one book.
Rachel:So I think that this also sorry, finish your thought so
Margie:well, the really the only other thought I have is like the final review of the plot, which is probably I mean, one or two out of five. I think pushing it. I think you can say that it has a plot, which is why I would give it a one. Barely. I think it barely has a plot.
Rachel:So you were looking it up. Was there sex in it didn't describe sex sex. Tammet. So so how was the set? I
Margie:don't like it at all.
Rachel:It's uncomfortable. All right, good. Good. So I guess I think that this actually is an interesting thing. That's probably one of the first books that we've covered that's like this, where it is a just a supernatural book that happens To have sex in it that is marketed as Yes. I think it's the first book that we've experienced where it's not a romance book, but someone is like, oh, but if I throw romance in there, I'll get this entire and you
Margie:have to wonder too if like, it's a slow burn romance where over the course of 10 books she finds a lover or multiple lovers and like, that's another
Rachel:so that we just do all of them. Do most of the books cover her. All the books are about her,
Margie:all of them. See, that's interesting. Second one is called kitty goes to Washington. Okay, Kitty
Rachel:goes to Washington. Hmm. All right. Okay, I get okay. That's, I benefit of the doubt is saying that okay, I'll call it romance because maybe there's a romance in a future book. But still, that's like, that's kind of pander. Yeah.
Margie:Yeah. Again, it's gonna I'm gonna like it. It's a Harry dress and to say, I wouldn't call Harry Dresden, a romance novel, but it has romance in it, like their romance later books. Sure. You know, coming from someone who writes a little bit. I think that Carrie Vaughn actually does have some promise. I think, absolutely. If this is her first book, I would be interested to see what she wrote in later books. Because I'm sure that like, right, if she's a writer worth her salt, I'm sure that she got critiqued on this book. So she probably knew, like, knows, knew or knows now, especially since this came out in like, 2005. I think that it wasn't perfect. So you know, check out I only see it by Carrie Vaughn. Just not this series. Maybe not this one.
Rachel:I would really be interested if you went and read one of her like most recent books, and did an episode on that I would actually be really curious about how she developed.
Margie:Yeah. Okay. All right. Well,
Rachel:awesome. Yeah. First of all, high five. Thank that's the Virtual High Five sound. All right. Hey, Mark. Real quick. Um, what else have you been consuming over the past week? I know I saw you on Saturday, but like you didn't tell. Okay. You did tell me.
Margie:Oh my god. So I did go on an online comic revenge. And I did read comics under the oak tree. And
Unknown:I already ads for it.
Margie:I had so many thoughts on it. I still have thoughts on it. I really feel exotic. Good. But because Rachel I am add, of course, that's not the only thing I'm gonna obsess about. No, no, no. I'm currently obsessed with Fruits Basket. Because it's back on Hulu. There's more episodes on Hulu. Is it really?
Rachel:Oh my god. So yes, please, because I actually grew up reading the manga. I know me like middle school. That was like my friend, my friend, Megan. Shout out to Megan, who I've been friends with since like, fourth grade, loves Fruits Basket. And that was actually she got me onto it. And I remember reading it, but I was such a bundle of anxiety that I couldn't finish it.
Margie:Well, yeah, so it's back on. So I've been watching that. And then I did finish one division. So that was very fun.
Rachel:Oh, you've been doing a lot of stuff.
Margie:And the other thing I've been kind of obsessed with is you need to get off the mic. My love is the Titanic. So I pulled out a bunch of books from the library about the Titanic.
Rachel:So this is relevant than your Titanic analogy.
Margie:Absolutely perfect.
Rachel:And hey, if you think that this kind of banter is interesting, and would be interested in hearing us do more of this, Hey, check out our Patreon because we do monthly live streams where this is what we talk. Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
Margie:I could go into under the oak tree.
Unknown:Yes, do it. And I will
Rachel:I still need to make my list of top 10 fictional bows. Hey, we love you guys. Thank you so much for listening. This is a ton of fun. I'm glad I was spicy and drink four shots of whiskey in an hour. It's great. It's fine. It's fine. And hey, Ellen Aereo thank you for the use for salt your song. Oh, love off the album be held. It's a wonderful tool.
Margie:Alright guys.
Rachel:Hey, we love you guys so much. Thank you so much for listening. And I know that it said usually in the beginning of these but hey, if you could leave us review that'd be great. It helps us a ton. We would really appreciate it and tell your friends about us. Yeah. Hey, we love you guys do