Ep 8: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Wonderful

In this weeks episode I, Margie, tell Rachel about Meredith Wild's book Hardwired, a book about a young, smart, businesswoman trying to get her startup off the ground despite the actions of Mr. Wonderful. Blake Landon is a "intellectual" hacker businesman who will literally tear down her defenses with his bare hands to get her to almost trust him. Almost. 

PSA: This episode deals with topics of abuse and stalking and may be difficult for some listeners to enjoy. It's still a fun episode but if you feel that you may be a bit sensitive to these topics and have a little less fun listening to this episode just come on back in a couple weeks for a great palate cleanser.

Transcript

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Rachel: 0:00

Hello friends and listeners, this is your co host Rachel. Normally we have a silly little disclaimer here mentioning how listener Discretion is Advised as well as a few things you might expect to hear in the show. Today's episode is a little different. This episode deals with topics of abuse and abusive relationships on a much larger scale than anything we've experienced up until this point, if this is something that might affect you in a negative way, maybe skip this one and come back in the next episode, which I promise is a great palate cleanser. That said, we felt it was important to put this episode out there because we want to draw attention to pieces of media that portray abusive behavior as romantic or in a romantic light. That shit don't fly with us and we want to put a spotlight on it. If you or anyone you know is experiencing abusive behavior, please know that there are resources out there for you and we will be providing a list of these in the show notes. You are loved you matter and you really deserve to be happy. I promise this episode is still fun. I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about the subject matter. So without further ado, please enjoy textual tension episode eight Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Wonderful.

Unknown: 1:11

Oh, Taryn, me apart from

Margie: 1:24

Hello, and welcome to textual tension, a love hate relationship with romance novels. I am your co host, Margie, and I'm your co host Rachel. Each week one of us reads a romance novel and then summarizes the plot to the other unsuspecting listener this week that unsuspecting listener is Rachel. Yeah, and I know she's so excited. So I Margie, read a romance novel. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

Rachel: 1:49

what do we do with that though, after we,

Margie: 1:51

we then rate and review it,

Rachel: 1:53

and then we hack What the fuck just happened? We can't forget unpacking

Margie: 1:58

just happened. That's like the most important word. And we still don't always understand. Okay, so. But even before we do that I need to get I need to give a PSA about Mary Sue's so right?

Rachel: 2:10

So if you guys want to just skip over this bit and get right into the meat of the podcast where Margie tells me about all the fucked up things that is happening in this book that I don't know about. And I'm so excited for it. Oh, boy, it's gonna be great. I'm going to skip ahead like five minutes, somewhere around there. Okay, so just skip ahead like five minutes, and we should be pretty close to getting into the actual episodes. Already the nitty gritty, I realized that well, so longtime listeners will know that we have an ongoing discussion about what it means to be a MarySue. Right. Because we had different ideas of it when we started.

Margie: 2:42

And so I actually did some digging online and found out I was wrong. I you know, I didn't have an idea of a MarySue. But like, I was talking about it as if I knew what it was. And then I went online and I was like I actually don't know what this is. And this is good too. Because I feel like a lot of people who like art and fandom are like, don't read a lot of drama.

Rachel: 3:04

Do that people don't constant I know teenage dystopian. Damn it.

Margie: 3:08

It's crazy. It's like watching Game of Thrones and Shay. prodotti they're dirty. I don't know. pretending they're adults and as Yeah, exactly. So um, I so I did do some digging. And I found out that people have a lot of different opinions on what Mary Sue's are. But the what Wikipedia taught me and this is like kind of the baseline of it is quote, a Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment, they can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting such as by saving the hero

Rachel: 3:50

okay all right, hold on. That means the cat totally was a Mary Sue and I was right

Margie: 3:56

yes, yes. Like yeah, so Mary Sue I was doing I think I had like the part one like half of it right right. Like I the wish fulfillment part I definitely knew about I thought it was like more about like, because of that, you know, you can kind of insert yourself into the character you know what I mean? Like gray the same same things as the character is going to do like it's kind of like this. I thought more of like just this bland person who's gonna write react the same as anybody Yes.

Rachel: 4:24

And I think I thought more of the overpowered ridiculously good at everything kind of as I feel like as I gather we had the right idea. Yes. So but individually, we

Margie: 4:34

weren't quite there. We each had one half of it. So And I mentioned that Katniss ever teen from The Hunger Games would not be considered a Mary Sue, but I think she actually is, but she's debatable to me because like, she has all these skills, but she earned them like the skills that I'm talking about are more like the bow and arrow that she goes out into the woods to runway but she kind of earned that like she learned, right so Katniss could be she couldn't be because like she does have that training so it's not like you know, I always imagined it like the character who just kind of you know walks in and is like magically a person

Rachel: 5:08

with a magical girl

Margie: 5:10

trout right the The Mortal Instruments series. A lot of that especially in the first book has a lot of that going on where she's like suddenly thrust into this world and she knows how to do everything and she's perfect at everything. So Katniss isn't like so good books now so so she can do no wrong Katniss but she does have training in it. So it's like kind of debatable whether she is a Mary Sue. But I'm still standing behind my statement that Bella Swan is totally a Mary Sue 100% Sure. She's a snowflake. Yeah, like special

Rachel: 5:42

snowflake syndrome is synonymous with Mary Sue a little bit. Okay. Yeah,

Margie: 5:46

a little bit. But um, yeah, that's, I feel like I hope that I explained that better.

Rachel: 5:51

So basically, people have opinions. It's a lot of different things. But it kind of boils down to one person that's ridiculously good at everything can do basically no wrong and his cell phones and

Margie: 6:01

I will Yeah, and I will add to this. I also think that Mary Sue is because I can make my own opinions on

Rachel: 6:06

this subject to is you are a people, you have an opinion where

Margie: 6:10

everything in the plot happens to them. They don't enact anything. Like the character doesn't do much to like, propel the story. Everything is happening to them. And I think that's a lot of the reason why a lot of romance characters are Mary Sue's is because everything in the plot is happening to them rather than going out and getting things right. Right. So um, I do you think that like I said, I'm gonna, I think that you know, this character when you read it, and I feel like I've read 1000 Mary Sue's from teen angst dystopian dramas, like so many Mary's stream those books.

Rachel: 6:42

That's why we love them. Yeah. That was the other

Margie: 6:45

thing I want to talk about. Like every once in a while. I really just want a Mary Sue character I do. I'm not gonna act like I don't. But it's also good there. Like is a line there's a line and there's also just so many of them. That's why they have a name. Yeah, that's why there's so I just want

Rachel: 7:01

the male counterpart. Oh, very true.

Margie: 7:04

Mary. Well, it's Gary. Sue, Gary. How much better? There's there's like a few Gary Sue. Yeah. So just wanted to put that out there. I'm sorry that I got it wrong.

Rachel: 7:14

Hey, no one can ever say we aren't willing to own up to our mistake. Yes.

Margie: 7:18

Yeah, exactly.

Rachel: 7:18

So here we go. Here we go. Alright. Okay. So

Margie: 7:21

Rachel,

Rachel: 7:22

did you read Margie, tell me about it.

Margie: 7:28

To be honest with you, I can't even remember how I found this book. Very strange.

Rachel: 7:32

It just appeared. It's magic. Yes.

Margie: 7:34

It's not magic. It is not bad at all. Well, I do remember that. I did want to find it. Because one of our listeners branded Hey, Brandon. Like, whatever. He's one of our favorite listeners. I hope I don't make him trip on the treadmill or something. Because that's at the gym. Yes. So this, he told me what he does. I think he had asked me why is it always fantasy novels? And I was like, You're right. We have been

Rachel: 7:59

doing a lot of fantasy I've been so it's because Margie and I like fantasy. Yes.

Margie: 8:03

That's that's what I Yeah, that's what he told him. But like, so I picked a book that wasn't fantasy, and I couldn't find a cowboy one yet. Damn it. I've ordered one of the library. Yes. Yeah, it looks really good. So I'm excited about it.

Rachel: 8:14

Well, good. Good. Good. How quantify good.

Margie: 8:21

It's gonna be amazing. Okay, so I'm passing my phone over to Rachel and this has to cover I got it, buddy. It's a scroll down

Rachel: 8:36

so, so guys, um, I completed an accident had like, glanced at Marjorie's phone. While we were setting up for this and saw what I thought was the title like, okay, it's something involving while No. I thought that the author's name was the title because it's so much bigger and at the top of the page. Yeah. So

Margie: 8:56

it's bigger. It's at the top of the page. It is also a word that would make you think this is so this romance novel.

Rachel: 9:02

This book is called Meredith wild by hardwired way. Now. This book is called Hard Wired by Meredith wild. Oh, wow. The hacker series one. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Margie: 9:16

Love describe the describe the cover because it has nothing to do with hacking or

Rachel: 9:22

it's any. It's a couch, but like not a full couch. It's just a headboard to a bed. Oh, so that it's like so it's one of the like, tufted backs. Yeah, couch bath like, Yeah, but it's like red and then it fades to black in the top and bottom. And that's that's it's a very boring it's really boring. So can I can I swipe and it looks like there might be a couple different covers there.

Margie: 9:48

Oh, I don't know. Maybe? No, that's the Nope. Oh, that's the author about the author. Oh, no,

Rachel: 9:53

we're not gonna read that. Okay. All right. So let's get into the dispute. Yes. Devour the addictive number one New York Times series that's sold over a million copies worldwide about a bad boy hacker billionaire and a whip smart woman he can't resist you've given me a gift. This is such a gift. It's not even Christmas anymore

Margie: 10:14

so fast. Oh, wow.

Rachel: 10:17

So he hit that enter button really hard to enter but oh, okay, okay. Determined to overcome a difficult past, Erica Hathaway learns early on how to make it on around. days after her college graduation she finds herself face to face with a panel of investors who will make or break her fledgling startup. The only thing she didn't prepare for was going weak in the knees over an arrogant and gorgeous investor who seemingly determined to derail her presentation. Billionaire and rumored hacker Blake Landon has. He made his fortune in software. And he's used to getting what he wants with very little resistance. Captivated by Erica's drive and unassuming beauty. He's wanted nothing more since she stepped into his boardroom than what it feels unfinished to me, but okay, determined to win her over, he breaks down her defenses and fights for her trust, even if that means sacrificing a level of control he's grown accustomed to but when Blake uncovers a dark secret from Erica's past, he threatens not just her trust, but the life she's fought so hard to create

Margie: 11:31

everything about that description and breed thing after having

Rachel: 11:36

like Landon, is it like, at least related to the book? What like the description? Does it do a job?

Margie: 11:43

No, it doesn't. It does a horrible job, actually. Because I'm gonna have to get it.

Rachel: 11:48

I'm gonna just real quick. I'm gonna throw this out there because this does bother me. Um, you know how you win someone's trust by not breaking down their defenses? Yeah. Okay. All right. Great.

Margie: 11:58

Yeah. So now that we've got everything about that, too, is just like, it's, it's covering up what he actually does in the book, which is really, really, really problematic.

Rachel: 12:08

Well, I was gonna say, so this seems like a description that would have a solid amount of trigger warnings. Yes. So I do like that segue. I'm so glad that you should

Margie: 12:18

be really proud. There are a lot of triggers in this book, there's even one that I'm not going to go into because it's just not that.

Rachel: 12:25

Great. Okay, cool. You can tell me off the mic. In case anybody

Margie: 12:28

does want to go out and read this book. I don't know why you would. But because it's not a good romance novel in general. Right. But the triggers are drug use and abuse. Okay. Sexual Assault.

Rachel: 12:39

Okay. And

Margie: 12:40

stalking. Okay. Yeah.

Rachel: 12:42

Is that all the ones including the ones you aren't going to talk about?

Margie: 12:44

Yes. Like, the ones I'm not going to talk about the drug use. I'm not going to talk about just because it has to do that comes up with a secondary character. Okay. And we just literally don't have time yet. I,

Rachel: 12:57

I never been I've got so guys, the way we have a recording setup right now is we have essentially two like sound dampening boxes that our mics are in. And they're situated in such a way that we can pretty much only see from the nose up of each other. Which is hilarious because I feel like I'm just playing peekaboo with Marsha. She tells me about sexy shirtless men for an hour. It's a wonderful

Margie: 13:21

All right, I am lead by life on the page. Okay.

Rachel: 13:26

So ready? All right. All right, bring it, bring it on.

Margie: 13:28

Um, this book overall just made me really angry. I just want to preface because the first one. So it begins by introducing Erica Hathaway, which is actually pretty normal. Pretty solid. It's pretty normal laid. She's a Harvard graduate who was starting a new startup called clothes pin. And it's a fashion website basically. So that's cool. Yeah, she's gonna she's gonna be presenting her startup which is already off the ground it's been live for about a year the website to a group of investors and that she wants them to invest $2 million in her project so that you know she can take it to the next

Rachel: 14:01

level. She's like, What is it Shark Tank? Or whatever? Yeah. romance novel.

Margie: 14:08

Oh, God. Oh, God. The night before this meeting, she goes out to dinner with a friend and of course barrels into who I'm going to call Mr. Wonderful. I don't know why that's just what I started out. Mr. Wonderful. Yeah.

Rachel: 14:23

Oh my god. So

Margie: 14:25

and there is very obvious mutual attraction. They want to know that like literally it's like them bumping into each other crashing into each other and there's that whole scene. Oh, like he grabs her like, you know, like saves her from falling.

Rachel: 14:38

Can Can I just say I'm assuming this is Landon? Yes. Right? Yes. Um, I apologize to any of our listeners named Landon out there but the name Landon for some reason in my mind connects to land whale.

Margie: 14:51

I think of land shark land shark land. Well,

Rachel: 14:53

there we go. Just like a land sea creature is this man's name to me? Yeah.

Margie: 14:59

He's got a real huge So I

Rachel: 15:01

will never not imagine my his my visual picture him I in my head is just an actual whale on the street corner

Margie: 15:09

imagining a shark head. I believe in legs. washboard abs

Rachel: 15:15

Can we can we play this out a little bit? All right you're gonna be you're gonna be Erica. Okay, and you're going to pretend to bump into me I'm gonna be Landon sorry we're gonna you know he just sort apologizing that kind of thing. Okay, like

Margie: 15:27

Yeah, got it. Boom. In fact oh my god I'm so sorry to

Rachel: 15:44

so sorry I'm sorry I couldn't make a convincing whale noise without getting called the street face. Oh my God,

Margie: 15:58

I don't speak whale.

Rachel: 16:01

Like he's speaking my language. Okay, all right. And community theater. Okay.

Margie: 16:08

But like he does this weird thing with her where like, they're kind of like doing this like, Oh my God.

Rachel: 16:13

I'm sorry. Is it a Canadian standoff? We're like no, okay.

Margie: 16:18

Where he when he is or he during the book he does this when he's a rouse he smiles and then very lightly like the his bottom lip.

Rachel: 16:28

Okay, listeners, Margie just did it to me. And I can confirm in no way sex, no sex at

Margie: 16:36

all. And he does it several times through the book. And I was like, do we that day ago where I was sort of tried to do it and like find out how it's sex.

Rachel: 16:44

I feel like biting your lower lip is a hell of a lot sexier.

Margie: 16:48

Those are 50 Shades of Grey thing.

Rachel: 16:50

I mean, that's just like a normal thing. Right? I know. lip biting a sexy but lip licking is not.

Margie: 16:57

So the next day Eric so she they leave the restaurant. They don't like introduce each other. She's going he's coming into the restaurant and they don't introduce changes separate. That's the you know, it's a romance novel. There's drama was passing in the night. Right? So and she's also like, I don't need a relationship right now. I'm trying to get this startup off the ground. Okay, so in that time today, Erica is pitching her project to several investors in order to get the $2 million and guests who walk since super late super casually.

Rachel: 17:25

This is like some Victorian era coincidence? Like some Jane Eyre level coincidence bullshit

Margie: 17:34

Yeah, well and so like the first time it happens is actually coincidence and then every other time after that where they're like casually meeting like funny to see you hear it's because he orchestrated everything about that so apparently, he's a billionaire investor slash tech hacker whatever with money spilling out of his ears. So he's easily the richest person in the room but I will give her credit she like she does a really good job with the the presentation that is in spite of Mr. Wonderful who gives me to to ask her these super rude and obnoxious questions the entire time. Like I like in a room

Rachel: 18:10

full of investors. mansplaining level? No, he's

Margie: 18:13

not man. Okay, but he's like He asked her so she explains that her other two co founders were unable to make it in that day. And she's like, sorry about that. And he says, So you're the only one on your team who's devoted to the project right now? And it's just dead. Yeah, he's really like the whole time he's being a super dick to her. And so this is Erica describing Landon's questions. Every question he posed sounded like a challenge or an insult effectively squashing every competence inspiring pep talk I've given myself leading up to this meeting. So that is him failing booked at book del rule number one, he's just like, to all hell, right. He, like he's just, like pulling her down,

Rachel: 18:50

making horrible,

Margie: 18:52

horrible, so after so then after she's finished her presentation and she opens the room to questions. He pulls a classic asshole CEO move, which is asking her if she's single. He covers up asking so he asked her if she's single, and he covers up asking this by saying relationships can be distracting. If you were to get the funds you need from this group. It could be a factor that affects your ability to grow. Which I'm gonna call it when I smell it that is a steaming pile of bullshit. Like it's so just you'd never ask that like he wouldn't if it was another dude in the room he would never ask the dude I'm gonna put it out there. Oh no, ever

Rachel: 19:29

Absolutely. Oh my I know we're gonna get a hot hot serious for a hot second here. I feel like he's like negging like tendencies that are going on right now is exactly what the tearing down her defenses air quotes air quotes from the back of that book description. No, it's not it doesn't get worse.

Margie: 19:48

Sort of like your I think the tearing down the defenses is him like trying to get her to trust him. And this is not even that this is him trying to find out what she's single. Like, like, oh, he

Rachel: 19:57

would never ask that to know. Do

Margie: 19:59

you ever ask that? Dude, she says that she's like her she actually call him out on it. She does well, sort of. She's like, that's really inappropriate. Or something along those lines. I can't remember I wasn't that impressed with it. But her mind dialogue gets a lot better is as it being the only woman in the room wasn't enough pressure. I had him shining a spotlight on my relationship status, misogynistic prick, I clenched my teeth is tied to keep myself from hurling a string of expletives at him. I couldn't lose my cool, but I wasn't about to smile away his inappropriate behavior. So she does say, she says like, it makes me happier. In terms of the business though she's like, you know, this is my number one project. I'm not gonna let anything get in the way of that. Yeah, no, but she isn't saying like, how are you? You know, asshole. And also, though, none of the other guys in the room say anything. You know, it's, you know, it's about right. Like, well, it's about right. But it's like, it seems. That's just so inappropriate. Like, if I were her in that group of investors, I'd be kind of like, Yeah, well, it's not surprising. It's just, it's disappointing. Yeah. You know? Yeah, really disappointing. So, I was grossed out by this. And they're also kind of like, why would you want to work with Landon? If he's asking questions like this,

Rachel: 21:11

right? I am fortunate enough to work in a place where I work with a lot of dudes because I work in a you know, male dominated field, who would all absolutely say something if something like that happens and like, I am very fortunate to work in that situation. Like, I get it being put on the spot, you do panic and like, sometimes freeze up? I've done that before when you know things happen, but like, I would hope someone out of everybody.

Margie: 21:35

Yeah. I hope so. So like, that's where I'm gonna kind of cut out for a second and say, in a lot of these novels, it seems like there's a need for the author's to make the Mantic interest in antagonist. That's really what he's becoming in this scene. Yeah, totally not helping her at all. Yeah. So like, if they make things more difficult for the main character to make their relationship more dramatic, I would say to these authors make another character who fills those scary drama shoes, don't make the romantic interest in antagonists to the overall plot, or to the goals of the main character. I mean, there are other ways to create that yin and yang dynamic that you want that you're looking for

Rachel: 22:15

now, Margie, that would make sense.

Margie: 22:19

Also, like and there's there are examples of these books that everybody loves. And these characters like classic example, being Phantom of the Opera. He's very seductive. He's very hypnotic, very sexy,

Rachel: 22:30

it can be done, it can be done, it is not so elusive thing that

Margie: 22:35

he's and he's just a fan. The Phantom was the star of the show, but he's still an antagonist. You can't say that he's not, you know, because he's working against Christine story. Another example is Shadow and Bone by Leigh Bardugo. We let me we both read that book. So use it do that without making it this one horrible character. Um, so but don't try combining these two characters because it just creates whiplash. Because in this book, Landon is one moment being very charismatic and charming. And the next he's questioning all of our business decisions. And it creates a whiplash. Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. And it's like, it's really weird to because at the beginning of the book, you're kind of like, well, I can almost get behind him if he wasn't like an asshole in our business. But he totally is all the time. Okay, so jumping back to the story. Almost all the investors passed on Erica's product project, including Blake Landon. Thank god. Okay. But one perfect person. Max Pope talked about a realistic name.

Rachel: 23:33

All right. He is the maximum Pope.

Margie: 23:35

He decides he does want to hear more about the project. Okay. So he but he leaves the room. Everyone else leaves the room. So then it's just Landon and Erica. And immediately this is yeah, he's like really complimentary. He says what a great job she did on the presentation. And he asks her out to breakfast. This is after he's done abusing her during the meeting.

Rachel: 24:02

Yeah, so breakfast. First of all, it's not my I mean, I'm all down for breakfast first day, but it's kind of odd, especially for you once you get to like an Irish Pub that's nearby and do like Irish breakfast, like breakfast, like immediately after this? Yes. Oh, okay. After he's done abusing her neck, you know, um, and I feel like there's like this weird dichotomy of like, I have to look like a badass hard ass in front of all of these business people. But then as soon as we're alone, I can show you who I really right, which is not cool.

Margie: 24:28

And well, so here's the thing that she's immediately into it because she's really attracted to him. Okay. And even for me, I was like, what? You know, no, I don't understand him. I really don't understand her at this point. Because I would be pissed. I'd be like, No, stay the frick away from me. Thank you for not investing in my project because I really don't want you on my board. Yeah. So here's what I would do, though, create a very another very suave and debonair character who abuses her during the investment meaning who's doing basically what Landon would do but then how Have Landon across the waves saying who's doing more productive questions nice so direct and you could also make it so that like the guy who is you know the not great guy is the ends up becoming her investor yeah that creates like

Rachel: 25:14

and ends maybe like maybe is into her too and exactly shows that going in a bad guys negging is not sexy don't ever no

Margie: 25:21

it's not so but she does so she's happy with it though because she does get at least one person isn't interested in a project so she also gets more good news she gets invited to a tech conference in Las Vegas meet which is great.

Rachel: 25:34

So a tech conference what is her business have to do with tech? She's

Margie: 25:37

a startup it's like an online Okay, so like kind of like you know the people who are who don't it's like something like that. So she and her best friend and co founder Allie decided to go to Vegas to promote their startup and I don't really know why alley goes because she's really okay so like no meetings all she's there more is fashion support for Erica we're just such like a like okay, very generic. Like I just so she they go they hit the Erica and Allie hit the casino and have a night on the town when surprise surprise. Mr. Wonderful shows up.

Rachel: 26:15

That's not creepy. Oh, just

Margie: 26:17

wait by.

Rachel: 26:18

Dammit. All right,

Margie: 26:19

so I'm just gonna skip to the end of the night Ali and Landon's brother Heath hookah so okay, she's but Ali spent the night in keys. So

Rachel: 26:27

Landon brought his brother to help stalk a girl he was in jail. Pretty bad. Hey, bro. He's there.

Margie: 26:36

He's there for the conference too. So but like he has no reason really be there he that's pretty much a party boy.

Rachel: 26:43

Like he's weighing Manning. Yeah,

Margie: 26:45

very hardcore. So um, so Erika and Mr. Wonderful get very very close to hooking up. But and I want to point out to you that she says no several times in our hallway leading up to her room before he finally leaves her alone. Like is pushing up against her on the door. That's like, saying like, you know, as and it's kind of like it's very creepy, but it's also like, you know, even if a woman seems into it, if she says no, she says no, like she's trying to protect her business because she knows he's a potential he's still a potential investor No means no. And No means no. So for the record, no, does not mean change my mind. No means no. Okay, we keep coming back to this for women in these novels are like, the guys almost take advantage of them. Because like, even if I'm really into it, if my mind is saying no, but my body is saying yes. Still saying no, I'm still saying no, my mind is still saying no, I don't want to you know, I don't want to do this right now. Please just leave me alone. Right. And so he does he leaves finally thank God. Oh, good. Ali gets back to the hotel room after sleeping with Heath. Now in the comment section of this about this book on Goodreads. I did notice that there were a few readers who thought that Erica was a bit of a bitch. Okay, which I didn't really understand. Okay. But I the one this was I think this was one of the reasons why is that when Allie gets back Erica kind of gets into it with her because she's like, You are sleeping with someone who you know, their their brother could have invested in my project like you're getting

Rachel: 28:13

that's a pretty rational like, I think well so I think it's a reasonable thing to be upset about but I also don't think like I mean, it's still your friend's life to do whatever right

Margie: 28:22

but I think that if if you know the night before there were it was they were at a table of for basically it was very clear that Heath and Ollie were gonna hook up Yeah, and if if Erica was upset about that, then she needed to pull her friend aside and say like, I don't think that this is really a good idea to have like an interest. Yeah, can you guys you know exactly. It's a yes. Can you not do this right now? I don't know. So I don't think that she really has a reason I don't think that she should be really that mad at Alli Yeah, but like I think that all Allie should have maybe a little more common sense right right. Ali's not as invested in this project as Erica

Rachel: 28:56

it actually just kind of seems like a normal human like interaction which is surprising for some of these robots. What's the human well like a normal like like you know it's I think reasonable that someone would be upset that this happened and the reasonable that they would have like conversation about it's not like yeah, there's not a ridiculous over the top reaction and there's not no reaction at all. It's like a middle of the ground like Yeah, that could actually it's believable.

Margie: 29:20

It's believable. Yeah. Um, so but Ali, of course, because she's been up all night. Just asleep through the meeting. That's that day. Okay. Yeah, it's great. Okay, she's Aliza as invested in the project as Erica, making it her whole life, Ali's still looking for another job.

Rachel: 29:40

Pick pick workers, like for your startup that are actually going to renovate you, guys.

Margie: 29:45

And also don't you know, that's also kind of like, don't get into bed with your best friend. Like don't say, this would be a good idea. Exactly. So Erica goes to the conference the next day by herself and guess who's sitting right next to her. Mr. Wonderful. He is moderating the panel. and all and so that's when she starts to put to put all the clothes together. And she says, You totally did this. You're the one that got me into this event. You know, you had called

Rachel: 30:10

him on his shit. Yeah, yeah, I

Margie: 30:12

mean to this event. So you hacked me into this? Yeah, that's what he does though. He typed it he press the Enter key, so

Rachel: 30:19

I bet he were really what you're doing so fast. I buddy. We're really weird sunglasses and had a trip black trench coat on? Does this look like a tan trench coat scenario?

Margie: 30:28

So she's like, You totally did this. You're the one that got me into this event. And he doesn't deny it. He like hacked and yeah, it's still the main frame

Rachel: 30:37

behind so many firewalls.

Margie: 30:39

With so many monitors. I press the enter key so hard, just like he's gonna press her enter key.

Rachel: 30:48

Guys, we're gonna go ahead and refer back to our previous Rachel science corner from last episode.

Margie: 30:54

Yes. So listen, if you haven't listened to that episode that yeah, just go listen to it. So of course, they get into an argument about it. And at one point, she says you have real fucking nerve. But she didn't know that her mic was on. And she just said it just reverberates throughout the room.

Rachel: 31:10

Oh, my God.

Margie: 31:12

Yeah, she's hurt. She's humiliated. But she actually gets through the panel really well, she does a really good job. And at the end of the panel, Landon introduces her to a big time colleague of hers and she gets us contact. I can see you. I know. My head is down. Go back up. I need you. So Erica sees through this whole charade going on. She's very she's pissed. And she's like, I know what this is. You're trying to get me into bed. And she doesn't that and he responds with I'd be lying if I said I wasn't. I mean, like straightforward,

Rachel: 31:49

at least you straightforward and at least she calls him on his shin. And if I didn't have an inkling of where this is going, I'd be okay with that. But let's see where it goes.

Margie: 31:58

He died, grabs her by the waist and kisses her in front of us still pretty crowded room.

Rachel: 32:02

Yep, there it is.

Margie: 32:07

There's that but trope to have him of her quote unquote, melting into him. That was a lot through this book. She just called him on his show. Yeah, that's also what happens a lot. She'll call about a shit and then she's so attracted to the fucking dick. She does slap him at one point. Okay, but that's that's, I mean, it's, it's so given the Nords she's basically using the fact that she's attracted to him to manipulate her. That is not okay. Okay, so much wrong with this. Right? And he like makes her think like, she'll kind of forget that he did something really bad. Oh my god. Right. Right. And because of that, because he gets away with this and he gets away with other things throughout the book. Just

Rachel: 32:47

keep jamming that icepick into my chest go for it? Tell me how bad this is.

Margie: 32:52

He, uh, he he invites her to dinner. But it's also like beauty the beats where it's not a request. He's just like, I'm gonna come pick you up at your hotel room at eight. And so that night, he does show up, and he takes her upstairs to his penthouse suite.

Rachel: 33:12

I'm so broken right now. It's only the beginning. No, yeah. No.

Margie: 33:18

So not somewhere public, like, you know, a restaurant. Because she said she's like, I did not agree to this. And he's like, you can leave whenever you want. Which, no, that's how you cultivate that. No, that doesn't make someone feel better. No, that's no. But of course, they have sex ceiling of she leaves. She leaves her apart. He leaves his room at like, 2am. I was like, what? And she leaves him note. This is what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Okay, she's like, we're done. I'm not doing this. So she also assumes that he's not really gonna care anymore. Like she's like, okay, he got what he wanted, right? Probably done now. Like, hopefully we can put this behind behind us. So you know what? After all of that, after Alec gives no to the comments whatsoever. They head back to Boston. And a few days later, Erica finds out that her best friend Allie, who's her co founder, got a job in New York and will therefore not be able to continue working with a start up. Oh, no. And that's another thing that I think that where people could get this idea that Erica is a bit of a bitch because she's like, I'm not really that excited about this. Like I'm Yeah, I think that's rational human. It's a rational human response. But it's also like, if that were to happen to me, I also want to try to be happy for my friends. Yeah, she did get a job that she really needed and wanted so you know, it would be the type of thing where I would be like, you know, I am sad but I'm like really happy right? And I know that you're still going to be there for me this project so

Rachel: 34:40

but I can understand sir being upset else. Yeah. be upset with that. Yes. Yeah. And she

Margie: 34:45

she had had a situation where she was it was kind of bad timing because she met with someone who brought back some bad memories for her just before she got that call

Rachel: 34:55

from Allie. Right, right.

Margie: 34:57

There's always I mentioned it, I'll go into it. She was she was raped her freshman year of college. And after she was after that assault, she kind of distanced herself from her freshman year friends because she was like, I need space from the right. And so she saw some of those freshman year friends, right? It was just awkward. So she's kind of upset already in the alley calls and she gets more bad news. So then after that Landon calls, and he can tell that she's upset and he's like, I'm five minutes away. Let me just come and pick you up. You know, okay, we're just gonna well, you're so like, this is what this is the whiplash. Yeah, actually really sweet. Like, you picked her up that go to that Irish pub, they have breakfast together. He's like, what's wrong? Just tell me. And she does. And he is kind of helpful with her because he says, hey, my sister, you know, it sounds like you're gonna be needing a new roommate. My sister is a realtor. Why don't I put you in touch with her and she can help you find a place. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, it's very

Rachel: 35:54

really confused. I know. I know. This human confuses me.

Margie: 35:57

Right, exactly. So he's like being really sweet and really nice to her. So she does get in touch with her sister who like seems really nice. Hey, sister. Yeah, whose sister landed sister who I can't remember her name. It doesn't really come up again. Apply it. And she her Landon sister does find Erica and apartment and she's super psyched about it. And she starts moving in.

Rachel: 36:22

You're giving me the highs that tell me I'm about to hate exists.

Margie: 36:25

Yeah, you're gonna hear like this right? With Blake walks in. Landon. Landon walks in and starts unlocking his apartment, you know, in the building that he owns. That just happens to be right next to Erica's apartment she's begging the table guys.

Rachel: 36:49

That's no no really,

Margie: 36:51

really creepy. Really?

Rachel: 36:54

I hate him. I hate him. Everything about him. No more confusion, right hatred.

Margie: 36:58

Yeah, that's how I felt to at this point. Oh, god. Okay, keep going. So she didn't she did not know about any of that. And also it's like, the his sister. I'm like her any of this. You kept her dark and you let her sign that lease without knowing who owned the building. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's not okay. problematic. So no. Oh, my God.

Rachel: 37:26

makes me uncomfortable. Yeah,

Margie: 37:28

I know. And so

Rachel: 37:29

I didn't even read it. I know. I know. Yeah. So

Margie: 37:33

of course the worms are bad. Of course lambda gets her back and gets Erica back into bed. He lets her buy them and cook them dinner in her new apartment.

Rachel: 37:45

Oh, nice. Kind of Yeah, great.

Margie: 37:47

But any biser a bunch of stuff that I'd say at Bed Bath and Beyond. This is becoming seriously like such a like he's trying to build make sense. on him. This is awful. Awful. It's this book was written by a woman. This is awful. Yeah, it's really bad.

Rachel: 38:04

Oh my God, I feel gross.

Margie: 38:06

So then air. Erica has also invited the person who is developing her website like builds her website to come in and live with her. Okay, and he's like, he's the one who's like the energy drink, you know, stays up all. The day fulfills all like super tall and likey. He fulfills all of that or stereo. Okay, so he oblige. So Erica bite said the software developer to come and live with her in this apartment. Just you know, until he gets his feet off the ground and land and like until he realizes who he is is not okay with it. He's super possessive like super like, aunties. Like he kind of he's like when when Sid leaves the room. He says to Erica, like you didn't tell me anything about a roommate. It's so it's just I hate. You know, I've been listening to True Crime podcasts. And that's how I feel about this book. I feel like it's the beginning of a true crime podcast. Yes. Yeah, I know. I know. God's gonna bury her in the basement. All right, let's

Rachel: 39:03

let's get this over with I just like I feel gross.

Margie: 39:05

So the next day Erica has a meeting with Max her investor and she tells max that Landon has been helping her create the presentation that she presented to max that day, and which apparently is a no bueno because Max does not like Landon at all. In fact, that's why he invested in her project because he kind of went because Landon said no. Max immediately wanted to say Yes, Max. It's like that's a really bad way of doing business. Oh, wait isn't if I thought that her

Rachel: 39:34

but it is a giant middle finger to Landon. And I don't like Landon.

Margie: 39:37

Yeah, that's true. That's very true. But it's like Landon could have been the bad character and the max could have actually been her. Yeah, romantic. Because he's not that bad. He's not a bad dude. I don't think I think he's attract. Like Landon says, Oh, she's definitely attracted to you, but he never acts on anything if he is, as far as I remember, because there is another guy who's gross in this book. So over dinner with Eric has dinner again with Landon and we find out that Max's dad sort of bailed Landon out of jail and out of a really bad spot in his life. So that's and so he owes him he Landon owes Max's Dad Yeah. And he's become really successful and Max is not a successful he's kind of riding on his dad's Shirttails or whatever what coattails what short tails, because and so lands more quote unquote earned everything that he's gotten. So Max doesn't really like

Rachel: 40:29

but does quantify your existence as a human you like your your value, right? Yeah how much

Margie: 40:34

money you've earned, right? So and he Landon has also made way more money I think that Max probably has

Rachel: 40:40

I feel like I need to specify whenever I'm sarcastic, but I hope you guys can.

Margie: 40:44

Right? Right. So when they so they're at a restaurant, Landon steps away from Erica for a moment and when Eric Erica looks at the bar, she sees someone she thought she would never see again. It's her rapist. Okay, and Erica never knew who her rapist was. She had kind of wandered away from a college party her freshman year. And someone took advantage of her because she was really drunk. Right. And she remembers it but like she doesn't know anything about it wasn't it wasn't

Rachel: 41:09

the typical as a random person. Yeah, it

Margie: 41:10

wasn't a story of oh, it was someone I knew. Yeah. So thankfully, Landon, I guess sort of comes back and gets her out of the restaurant. They go home and to someone's apartment. I don't know who's because, you know, they live in the same effing building, right? And she tells him that whole story. And he this is the whiplash part again, because he has a really good response to it. Because she says stuff like, I'm not worthy of you and like this, you know, this is I'm not, I know, this bad thing happened to me. But that's, I'm not saying that. It's right. I'm not. That's like that's a route and that that is a response. I think a lot of people have

Rachel: 41:45

Yeah, well, but so I feel like is I feel like I mean, as someone who has never been in an abusive relationship, from what I've read and heard and all the stuff and talking people have, I feel like that is

Margie: 41:57

so hot and cold.

Rachel: 42:00

Exactly. Like it's, I should have done more research, the good and the bad. Like I have family who have been in abusive relationships. And that's exactly what it is when I talk to them of, you know, oh, but he's good sometimes. But not all the time. So it's I feel like it's that good and bad.

Margie: 42:15

Right. It's and it's also has a tendency, she's building it so that she's dependent on him. It is because like what would happen abuse? Well, yeah. And what would happen if like, he just thought he can just have her evicted for basically no reason. Yeah, that could be a thing that happens in that she'd be in a lot of trouble. So yeah, um, but he does say about that. Like, he's like, this doesn't change how I feel about you at all. Like, I don't care that this happened to you. I still love you. Yeah, I'm in love with you. And it's like, it's not okay. I'm not saying that. Yeah, not okay. Character. And that's why this is so strange. Because it's like, he's doing these really, really horrible things. And they're saying things like this. Yeah, like, so. They have they have sex again. She sleeps over in his apartment, and she kind of is dozing on the couch and she wakes up and he was typing so fast on his computer.

Rachel: 42:59

He's hacking into her rapist life and destroying it isn't. Well, so

Margie: 43:04

he hacked into the restaurants financial records from the night before to find out who her rapist was, so he knows who it is.

Rachel: 43:10

Yeah, because credit cards have pictures attached to them. So you can tell who the random fucking person at the bar was. He

Margie: 43:16

says that he ran it. So we ran the names from the people who were there like making charges that night. And then he found out who went to her saying college from that like something like that.

Rachel: 43:27

Listeners, I wish you could see my face right now.

Margie: 43:30

Yes, she's just very like that's that's that?

Rachel: 43:33

No. Okay. What? See previous episodes,

Margie: 43:37

right? So she gets really upset because she's like she had wanting to forget the experience. So she was like, I just want to put this behind me. I don't want this is exactly kind of what I didn't want you to do. land and land whale. What the fuck yeah. When someone gives you this kind of information, you don't get to run with it. No, as like, it's like confidence, right? It's incompetence. And they get to decide what they want to do with that, because he's like, it's still within the statute of limitations. You could still choose. Like, there's no evidence that this ever happened. Yeah, there's no way to go. Right. Yeah, cuz she's graduating now. It was her freshman year. It happened four years ago. There's no way that she's ever going to prove that this happened, right. And so this Oh, God was lying. Just Oh, he says Landa does not take that well and says, You're telling me I had no right to find the man who hurt you. To which I say hell no, you didn't. That was none of your business. I disclosed that to you. And you are a listening ear. That's eliciting an empathetic ear.

Rachel: 44:36

She said that or you said I say that. Okay. That is what prompts her if she said that,

Margie: 44:41

right? No, she doesn't she but she does leave. She's like I'm out. I can't handle this. I also want to know that when she is in his apartment, when she leaves his apartment, he had put out a dress and underwear for her that he had gone for, you know, her apartment. He didn't ask if he could go in. He just went in and grabbed her clothes.

Rachel: 44:59

My Back is arching. I'm so upset. Oh my god.

Margie: 45:07

So this is and I also put a note here, this is very toxic masculine culture because something is wrong. I have to fix it, even if I'm causing more hurt than help on the way to doing that. Right? Am I wrong? No. Okay, good.

Rachel: 45:20

Oh, this is not. Please tell me it's almost over.

Margie: 45:23

No, no, it's not. I'm sorry. Okay. Like we're getting there. We're getting there. Okay, we're halfway done. Um, so the next really important scene is when she meets another potential investor. And he also he kisses her forcibly. Jesus Christ. And Landon had told her before this meeting, like I'd really like to go with you. This guy's kind of a creep, which like he is don't talk at all. No. And she's like, No, you have no, you have no bearing in this project of mine. Like, this is my business. You know, I'm in a public place. It'll be fine. Like, and so this guy does end up being a creep in pushing, you know, tries to be grandpa and like,

Rachel: 46:06

being gross. Yeah.

Margie: 46:08

Yeah. So yeah, forcefully kisses her. And. And, of course, Landon shows up and pushes him off of Erica, this guy at just the right time, at just the right time. And so when they get so they get into the car. And Landon says, why wouldn't you just let me go with you? And she's like, You have no involvement in this project. And we've made that very clear. Since we started this relationship. You don't have any, you know, anything in this project. And Landon says, Would it be different if Max had gone with you? Who is her actual investor, right? And she doesn't say anything. I guess like, Okay, that's it. I'm gonna buy I'm buying your business. I'm over this, I'm going to be in control. And she says, No, you're not doing that. That's not hold this relationship.

Rachel: 47:02

She does not bend over backwards for this. Oh, no.

Margie: 47:07

So he also says, no, no, he also says the worst thing he could have said, you wouldn't have been in that situation if you'd listened to me, which is blaming the victim, which is never what you want to do. Ever. Yeah. It's like cutting me deeply.

Rachel: 47:24

Yeah, this isn't a romance novel. It's a novel about a woman who's trapped in an abusive relationship. Like this is not

Margie: 47:31

i This is where I get really, really upset with the author. I'm really upset at Meredith wild because and I'm calling her out. Okay. Please like because not cool, not cool. This is not okay. This is not good that girls are reading this and thinking that this is healthy. It's no, no, it's not at all it makes me realize like how 50 Shades of Grey got so popular. It's kind of like it really is.

Rachel: 47:53

So what was the rating on Goodreads?

Margie: 47:55

4.07. Ah, yeah, yeah, it's just so out. And, you know, and books like this. I almost want to put up you know, almost don't want to talk about because they're so bad, but maybe why we have to talk about them because they are because this isn't okay, this is not okay. Um, yeah, it's really, really problematic. And I'm calling Meredith outright now.

Rachel: 48:18

It's a cool I don't know, it's just like, listeners, I really want to know what your thoughts are as far as like, I don't think we are being unreasonable and saying this is not fucking cool. If you have a different opinion. I would absolutely love to hear it and I want to hear why you feel that way.

Margie: 48:34

I think that like a lot a lot of what people say is that like, but he's doing all these really nice things for her and I'm like that

Rachel: 48:40

was abusers. Right. And that is again, I have havior I've not been in abusive relationship. I have had very you know, intimate contact with people that have. So I've seen it right. But no, I'm just going to sit here and hug my emotional support cushions last to try to get to the rest of it.

Margie: 49:00

And it's never it's never it's not her fault. No, it's her fault. Right. So for and the other problem with this is is that for Erica later on the book, this creates an environment of her being afraid to be around men on her own without Landon because she's afraid of how he'll react. So at one point, she says, Oh, controlling I know she says I smiled but my excitement was dampened by the very recent memory of my last business dinner going horribly wrong. What were the chances I could get through another one without Blake delivering death threats and chokeholds

Rachel: 49:30

I'm not having fun anymore.

Margie: 49:34

So at this do you want to know about Next notice I don't think you do. So now our homeboy starts getting really sketchy.

Rachel: 49:43

He was

Margie: 49:48

so let's so that was about her. Met like her going to that meeting with Max. And he Blake responds with we're calling this off with Max. I'm going to be Your investor instead. So, and he immediately responds with you don't trust me, which is so manipulative so controlling. Just so many Yeah. Yeah. So they go back to the apartment and they have angry sex. I don't understand this book at all. So don't get a Yo, I know. And so but Erica like his tells him like you're not getting her claws in my business like this is mine. This is my project I've worked so hard to get where I am. I'm not afraid of Mac's like he's a good guy, I trust him. And I really want to get this off the ground on my own. So she goes to this meeting where she's gonna sign the paperwork. And guess who's there? Landon?

Rachel: 50:53

Jesus fuck yeah.

Margie: 50:55

So guess what he had just done. He wired $4 million into her bank account, and he threatens her that if she tries to give it back, you will make sure that no other investor will sign on for the project. Yeah,

Rachel: 51:09

I am filled with an honorable raid.

Margie: 51:12

It's oh my

Rachel: 51:13

god so

Margie: 51:14

bad. It's so bad. I want to so later on listeners, I do get Elle Woods on this book. Because I want to prove that like what he does is not okay. Okay. So we will get into that. Okay. Yeah, it's not.

Rachel: 51:31

I just want to real quickly, like give every single one of our listeners that's ever been in an abusive relationship. A hug. Yeah. Your fault. You're beautiful humans. Yes.

Margie: 51:39

Yes. Okay. And it's, and I think that but this what this book does show is like, also how easy it is to kind of fall victim to it. Yeah. You know, because it's not a romance novel. It's not, it's really not and there, there's more than one. There's more than one of these books. So okay, so over the course of this book, there's been a side plot that with Erica trying to find out who her father is, because her mother passed away without telling her who her father was.

Rachel: 52:06

Okay, so hack I'm gonna guess hacker boy finds out for? No, he

Margie: 52:09

does not. Oh, wow. It's actually her developer program. developer says she's been working on a project with her she kind of handsome a picture and he says he was a Harvard grad. And he was at Harvard with my mom and this year. Uh huh. I know who he is. And she does. And she goes and meet her dad. You know, after that business meeting with Landon where he's like, I'm gonna wire you the money. Um, she goes to meet her father. And she finds out that her father steps on his her rapist. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, so Landon knows who her rapist is, though. And he finds out where she's going and he's like, Oh, no. Oh, no. Because said so she didn't tell Erica didn't tell Landon where he where she was going. So Landon shows up at our apartment and said tells Landa Cosette is really concerned because he's like, I don't want her just going off to meet her dad. She doesn't really know who her father is. You know, I mean, like just like as a person this is again there could be a bad person. Victorian

Rachel: 53:11

era level coincidence? Yeah, shit, but like,

Margie: 53:16

Oh my bad her stepbrother will now we're the kind of stepbrother is super creepy about it, too. Like I'm incapable and under the table while they're having dinner. He's like, grabbing her knee kind of shit. It's so creepy.

Rachel: 53:31

I feel really gross right now. No,

Margie: 53:33

I'm so sorry. So homeboy shows up and gets her out of there like insists relieving right now. He and remember she's still really mad at him. So but he takes her to a ferry and makes her promise not to leave if he opens the doors of his car. Seriously, the suit is a nightmare. But he gets into why he became a worker.

Rachel: 53:53

Oh no

Margie: 53:55

reason against and I quote his parents tried like hell to get him out of the house to be normal, I guess. I think I was just too intellectual maybe for my own good

Rachel: 54:08

because he's an intellectual to intellect. Too much Jane Eyre. turned them straight into Acker. Don't let your kids read people

Margie: 54:17

become intellectual hackers such bullshit so he takes it to the child's pretty much tracking trapping her there because she couldn't leave even if she wanted to and she sort of forgives them but her business gets acted to at the site gets taken down so we'll see what happens with that actually, no, we won't because I don't care that's the end of the book.

Rachel: 54:35

Oh my god that wasn't that started out funny. And then it got really creepy and sad and scary and now I'm just sad and so

Margie: 54:45

I do I have an additional note that I want to make. So I want to go over the main points really quick of what this guy does during the book and add any if you think of any that make him so problematic. Okay, he said we're getting into review. Yes, we get to review slash This is critical analysis. Yeah. So he abuses her during the board meeting and is also super unprofessional asking her questions like Are you single number two, he hacks into our private life once to get to get her to the tech conference. And the second time to find out who her rapist is, neither of which she asked him to do. He tricked her into recommend renting an apartment in a building that is owned by him and in which he also lives. I also want it known that it goes into that apartment at least once without her permission. He threatens other men who are around her to the point where she's frightened to spend time with other men for fear of their safety, blames her for the actions of predators, and he wires the $4 million into her bank account for the business and tells her if she tries to put it back but he will make sure that no other investors will touch her project. So this is where I went all Elle Woods, because this guy in my mind is a stalker. Yes, he's a stalker. He's abusive user. He's an abuser. I think I'm more saw I don't know why when I was reading it, I was seeing it more is stalking because like they never say during the book, like they're actually in a relationship. They're really more casual, but it's still abusive. It's still really abusive. You're right. So so I looked up Massachusetts laws about stalking. Section 43, a whoever willfully and maliciously engages an unknowing pattern of conduct or series of acts over a period of time directed at a specific person, which seriously alarms or noise, that person and would cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress and, and number two makes a threat with the intent to place the person in imminent fear of death or bodily injury, shall be guilty of the crime of stalking and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than five years or by Finem. Not more than $1,000. Yes, fuck you, Landon.

Rachel: 56:40

Well, here's the thing, though, you

Margie: 56:42

have to put this into context. What he would do is just pay $1,000. Yeah, nothing to him. It's like $1. Yeah. And then he'd be out of jail. You do it would do nothing. All it would do is put something on his record. And for someone of that stature, it wouldn't matter. Anyway. He just lawyer up. Yeah. But he would so he and also he would not get he would he would not get charged, he would be charged, you might be charged. But he would not be convicted. Because he'd never threatened her bodily like I read this book, and I was kind of looking for that he never threatened threatens her with bodily injury, he threatens other people with bodily injury, but doesn't threaten her. He would get he would however, get into trouble for criminal harassment. Okay, because in criminal harassment, you only have to do the first part so engaging in a knowing pattern or so he's totally got that 100%. But he doesn't have the second part. But the good news is, is that for that, I believe, like the amount of time in jail is about the same. So he couldn't go away for five years, but because he would lawyer up and because he's rich, he won't because he wouldn't. He won't like $1,000 It's like $1 to him. Yeah, it's all relative. Capitalism is good political

Rachel: 58:01

anyway. No, I'm all down to rant about capitalism. God I just

Margie: 58:08

so I want to do this. So we're gonna get into reviews now. Yeah, the characters were written like a rain puddle, no depth at all. Nothing. Nothing. It was like looking at like a picture of people are like an alien two dimensional it it hurts so painful. The only person who had any depth is Erica, and that's because she's first person. It's first person omniscient. Everybody else had no character whatsoever and like you and then you have characters like Blake Landon. And like the whole book you're trying to find out okay, maybe there's a little reason why he's such an asshole. But like he know he's will tell you anything about his past until like the last 50 pages and it's not that bad. It's not that you should not be this horrible human. He's just

Rachel: 58:56

privileged gets what he wants and thinks it's okay to be gentle in order to do that. Yes. Check your priveledge homeboy.

Margie: 59:02

Check your priveledge

Rachel: 59:05

Oh my god. Yeah,

Margie: 59:07

yeah. And like spread. They have these other side characters of Allie and Heath and they are given no depth at all alley. It's just like, so two dimensional. This is so two dimensional.

Rachel: 59:18

Like I said, I think the reason this one is this one, I would say is up there in my personal scale of worst ones we've done. Yeah. Not because like, I mean, it's obviously horrifically problematic, but more so because it's real and problematic. It's it's very, it could I mean, maybe the hacker billionaire part couldn't happen with this level of abuse and manipulation can and has happened and that's what makes it so bad. That this is being sold as romance, right. And it's not it's absolutely it's so this hurts me

Margie: 59:53

it's it hurts me too, because and I'm gonna call her out again. It was written for by a woman for a woman, women It's not okay. Really not okay. Yeah, you're right. But things like the nymphing are one thing because they're 100% fantasy. Yeah. But there's no toilet bowl in Florida. Thank God but what else do Atlantis is a toilet bowl? Okay,

Rachel: 1:00:13

can you prove there isn't? Guys it's bad science. You can't prove a negative review that triangle. There we go. That's it. No, this is just, this is infinitely more upsetting than any. It's weird

Margie: 1:00:25

though. Because like, when you're reading it, though, you're kind of like, I think because you're kind of in the story. You forget how problematic things are. Well, it's not that I didn't see it as problematic. I saw it as problematic the whole time. But yeah, I see it as like a I didn't label it as abuse. But

Rachel: 1:00:44

2020

Margie: 1:00:45

I guess a stalking is a

Rachel: 1:00:46

for use. Well, and it's like, I mean, so I read Twilight when it first came out only because I wanted to bash it. And I wanted to have it. Just not want to have an informed opinion of what to do to bash it. Yeah. And when I was reading it, I was so on board because I was a teenager.

Unknown: 1:01:03

Yeah, so it feels so much better. And

Rachel: 1:01:05

then I got to the end of it. And I sat there and I thought about it for a hot minute. And as soon as you think about it, you're like, What the fuck? I'm not okay. I

Margie: 1:01:14

wasn't okay. Like, I read it my freshman year, and then I wasn't okay with that. My by my junior year. Yeah, I grew out of it. Yeah, like, but also like, feminism was not a thing yet. Like, not as big of,

Rachel: 1:01:25

I mean, it was a thing, but it wasn't as like big. Like right now.

Margie: 1:01:29

Yeah. All right. It's just, it's just so real. Like it is. Yeah, it's very, because it's real. These things could actually happen to a person. This is

Rachel: 1:01:36

why we like fantasy. Like, I don't Yeah, sure. We've gotten some flack for doing a lot of fantasy novels. And I think we've been doing right, well, but I think for me anyway, it's because shit like this. I don't read it because it's so real. In an uncomfortable way, like, in a way, like, it's not okay, and fantasy, like, Oh, it's a fantasy world. You know? What I still feel

Margie: 1:01:59

like both of them are fantasy worlds. But like, Well, yeah, but it is.

Rachel: 1:02:04

magic for me is easier to rationalize than, than reality. And also, like

Margie: 1:02:08

the writing business, the dialogue was just like every character was speaking the same way. So no personality whatsoever to any of the characters, except for Erica because she's in the first person. So I felt like I was reading a book written by an alien who had a master's degree in human.

Rachel: 1:02:29

But no practical explain. No, practically research only academia.

Margie: 1:02:33

Right, exactly.

Rachel: 1:02:36

Oh, my God. Well, you've successfully made me very uncomfortable. Just

Margie: 1:02:39

so I know. I keep saying this. I'm so angry at Meredith. Yeah, I just want to call her out on Twitter and be like, What the fuck was that?

Rachel: 1:02:49

Well, I'm very non confrontational. So I would say don't do it.

Margie: 1:02:53

I did it. I just spoke it into existence. That's fine.

Rachel: 1:02:58

But I mean, you're the one that handles our social media so I can try like, right. Okay, so how? Let's go to characters let's write officially.

Margie: 1:03:05

One for Landon. It's Blake Blake Landon. Yeah, Blake manly. Mr. Wonder. With every fiber. Erica gets like a two or like 2.5 Because it's your voice. It's her voice. And she does make rational, you know, like,

Rachel: 1:03:26

on occasion

Margie: 1:03:27

on occasion. I mean, the thing about Erica is that she's so attracted to him, she lets him get away with anything. Yeah, anything at all. And that's really the only reason and gets away with all this stuff. I'm gonna give the writing of the like, the eloquence whatever of the book. A one. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't written well at all. It was another one of those books that was written in like 45 minutes, right? Um, and also like, the plot wasn't about her business. It was about him trying to tear down her bus. Right

Rachel: 1:04:11

Do you feel better now? I do. So okay, so I'm actually I know I've said this a couple more times, or a couple times before, but I am really, really curious what you guys think about

Margie: 1:04:25

play. Tell us on Twitter what you think about

Rachel: 1:04:27

it, or even shoot us an email. I will reply emails like I want to know I

Margie: 1:04:31

want to know what you guys think. Shoot us an email about it. That would be cool

Rachel: 1:04:33

to commiserate with. Yeah, I

Margie: 1:04:35

would appreciate Yeah. And look at the like, look at the cover of the book. Take a look at it. Like don't read it. No, no, this is another one where I read as a joke because we couldn't even do it as a joke.

Rachel: 1:04:46

I hurt sad. Alright, so Oh, sorry, real quick. I had this thought and I wanted to immortalize it. So I know we use the word problematic a lot. I would like to incorporate another word into the lexicon unexcited Double

Margie: 1:05:00

unacceptable that's

Rachel: 1:05:01

a very good yes, this book was unacceptable. Okay Firebug so now we have two words to describe things problematic and unacceptable. We also need a new word for like the fantasy genre I feel like can be an underwater garbage. Yes, but this has transcended it has transcended the underwater garbage fire. I don't hit us up with your suggestion. Yes, we'll think about it.

Margie: 1:05:28

Yeah. About It. Hit us up with like, infinitely worse

Rachel: 1:05:30

than an underwater garbage fire. I

Margie: 1:05:32

feel like every genre of romance novel should have one. So like, underwater garbage fire, but then the wealthy CEO one. Yeah. And have another son. Right. Right. Right. So many books that are about like the wealthy radio. So if you come up with something, tweet us, uh huh. Hit us up. We're on Instagram, Twitter. And I think about putting up a Facebook group. That sounds like a lot of them. podcasts have Facebook groups. Yeah. There's like a discussions and stuff that happened on it. Yeah, we should. Maybe we should do that. Okay, but no, you're

Rachel: 1:06:03

okay. Your breath of fresh air.

Margie: 1:06:04

Oh my gosh. Sure. I've been rereading Memoirs of a Geisha. Oh, it was one of my favorite ever reading. No,

Rachel: 1:06:09

I haven't read it. So I

Margie: 1:06:11

love that book. You're just like, it's like it's just so beautifully written. It's just so just talk about a breath of fresh air. Good. Yeah, so that's that's been really awesome. You did it Yeah, I really did. Alright, so I just on social media. Yeah, please make comments. We really want to hear from you guys.

Rachel: 1:06:31

I really do. Tell your friends guys we yes so you know we joke about being sponsored and stuff we're not sponsored not sponsored do a lot like we don't do any advertising or anything. So if you guys don't yet we're working on it. Maybe but if you guys want to just like drop a line you say like someone that you think might enjoy this or you know, hit us up. reviews on iTunes really helps like give us shoot us a five star review. That would be awesome. We are so Okay, ready? Yes. Marty Twitter,

Margie: 1:06:58

sea tension pod. Okay, Instagram, textual tension pod Gmail, textual tension pod@gmail.com Good Reads textual tension because and then our website is textual tension pod@gmail.com Yeah, and you can also like on the last page of that if you like contact you can just go to the contact you can just contact us you don't even have to like go to your own email yeah so easy guy so easily

Rachel: 1:07:20

made it easy for you Yeah, we also want to thank the artists ala near you for song Oh, love the album be held. There we go. Um, it's an awesome song. And we really appreciate being able to use it. I really just I feel like embodies what we get what

Margie: 1:07:32

we do. Oh, well.

Rachel: 1:07:35

And I think that's it. We will see you guys next two weeks,

Margie: 1:07:38

or weeks. or regular schedule.

Rachel: 1:07:40

Hey, God, I love you all. It was great. Three weeks in a row was tough, man. Yeah. I imagine that's okay. That's probably scheduled programs. Yes.

Margie: 1:07:50

All right. Love you guys.

Rachel: 1:07:51

All right, we will see you later. See ya.