Challenging the Manosphere and Modern Masculinity with Listen Up Podcast

What if traditional masculine ideals are not only outdated but also harmful? Join us on the Listen Up podcast as we critically examine the "manosphere"—a complex digital landscape influencing societal norms and even impacting recent elections. We dissect this multifaceted community, breaking it down into its primary subgroups: the white male manosphere and the black male manosphere, while also acknowledging potential links to Hispanic and Asian communities. We'll scrutinize the roles of influential figures like Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, and Jordan Peterson, exploring how their ideologies resonate across these groups. With a politically independent stance and a commitment to emotional intelligence, we'll provide a balanced critique, emphasizing the necessity for cross-generational communication and understanding.

As we challenge the pressures men face to conform to unrealistic societal expectations, we explore the damaging effects this can have, from aggression and violence to suppressed emotions and feelings of inadequacy. The podcast covers how societal shifts are pushing back against these traditional narratives, allowing diverse groups to thrive in various sectors like technology and medicine. We'll discuss the need for men to reclaim the grace to express their emotions freely without stigma. As we prepare to delve deeper into the black manosphere in our next episode, we invite you to continue this enlightening journey into understanding the intricate dynamics shaping modern masculinity.

Chapters

• 0:08 Exploring the Manosphere
• 23:19 Challenging Traditional Masculine Ideals
• 40:22 Exploring the Manosphere Subgroups

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hello everyone, welcome to the Listen Up podcast. Today I want to talk to you about the manosphere. It's something that I wanted to do before the election and because of time issues, I haven't been able to get to it. There's some relevance to the manosphere and what just took place with the coalition for the election. Okay, so let's go ahead and jump into it. So the manosphere let me explain to you what the manosphere is. The manosphere is based on the belief that women are emasculating men and if a man's not an alpha male, he's weak and won't be accepted by society as a real man. So there's been a concerted effort to capture the attention of young men that feel left out. Today, we call this specific group of men and the influences associated with it the manosphere, the influences associated with it, the manosphere. Okay, so what I want to do is I want to break it down into two groups for you. The groups would be the white manosphere, or should I say the white male manosphere, and the black male manosphere. To this point, I haven't delved into any other cultural impressions of the manosphere on our society, but I will tell you this In the past presidential election, I've gathered the impression that I may need to. I've gathered the impression that I may need to. We need to see exactly where the influence came from the Hispanic and the Asian culture within the election. So that's something I'm going to look into and perhaps, if I find something, I will get back and we'll talk about it at a future point. Okay, so in order for us to get an idea of the manosphere itself, it will be necessary to define the two views the white and the black manosphere. Okay, I feel that there are strong cultural practices that are held and they're centuries old and dominate the influence in each one of the two. Now, some of the differences are embedded due to socioeconomic factors and cultural beliefs, factors and cultural beliefs. However, the two overlap in many ways and I say for the most part, they're connected. So I would say what I'm probably going to find with the Hispanic and the Asian community are going to be overlaps and connections, when I get a chance to take a look at that as well.

Speaker 1: 4:07

All right, so let's start with the ideology of the manosphere. First, the ideology says that men are inherently dominant. I refer to this as hegemonic masculinity. Okay, number two there are non-traditional women. Is the cause for men being emasculated in society, all right. And then there's other factors taking place that are a threat to traditional American men's roles in society. You know, such things like, such things as like the influx of people from other countries migrating into the USA, more visible presence of alternate lifestyles, of the LGBTQ community, the ambition of college-educated women and the financial ascension and independence of women. So I think those factors play a strong role in the belief of the Manosphere. So, when you take all of that into account, it has caused or it has built a foundation for young men to believe that they're being replaced in society. Okay, so give you an idea of some of the content creators that we see on the internet and social media and just in what we call the red pill area, what we call the red pill area. Okay, here are some of the notable white and female influencers Andrew Tate, joe Rogan, jordan Peterson and Pearl Davis. Okay, hopefully, ok, hopefully, yeah. Candace Owens here's where it gets a little tricky for me, and I think I need to establish this.

Speaker 1: 7:01

I don't like taking a political position, because it's difficult for people to think outside of the concepts of a Democrat as a liberal or a Republican as a conservative. So when I refer to thoughts, beliefs and concepts. I do so from the perspective of the present day American society definition. Ok, so I don't see myself as right, center or liberal. I see myself as mostly as an individual with capitalistic, free market ideologies. I have some conservative practices. I believe in a strong family, god and science. Okay, I believe that I must maintain a fluid understanding because all people's experience are ever-changing. Okay, so your lifestyle choices are not my concern as long as it doesn't harm my family or me. And what I've learned over the years as I've gotten older is emotional and compassionate intelligence should be applied to everyone in their situations before judgment is cast. So I say all that to say I'm not here to judge people. I'm here to assist everyone that may need or want my help. And for those that know me know that I like and find most people interesting. Okay, that's why I wanted to do what I'm doing here. Okay.

Speaker 1: 8:55

So with that mind, let's jump into the ideology and the thoughts of what the manosphere, how the manosphere I feel, has been developed. The manosphere is born out of the right-wing belief that women's liberation left-wing beliefs, quote the woke mob along with the declination of Christianity and the participation in church, is the root cause for the American male being removed from society. Okay now, all of these beliefs, I think, are toxic because it doesn't actually address the true issues that I believe are causing these things. Are causing these things, I believe there's a disconnect and misunderstanding of all men, from every, pretty much every generation, and I asked the same question to all men when I run into them and I have an opportunity to talk to them. That's from age 13 to age 93. I've talked to men and what I'm learning is that there's a complete misunderstanding and a disconnect from generation to generation.

Speaker 1: 10:16

Okay, number two, I would say, is the lack of the ability to communicate effectively by men in general, and this is not something that I think is something new. I just think it's part of the male makeup not to know how to express yourself outside of two or really three, maybe four different ways. Okay, whereas women, so to speak, that's what they do. They express their feelings and their thoughts, and it's something that's a little much. It's a bit more easy for them. Okay, number three I think the unwillingness to invest in learning how to communicate effectively by men is an issue. Okay, number four, I would say, the matriarchal practices and structures of the American family over the centuries has created a problem, and this is what I believe Men are unwilling to be self-sufficient emotionally and they constantly seek to be assured by typically society, but mostly women. Okay, I feel like the role of the man has been vaguely defined and society and culture. Of course, we talk in general about what we feel like the role should be.

Speaker 1: 12:46

Okay, think that men actually have emotions that need to be addressed and it's good for a position of positive mental health, right, and because of the guidelines that have been set up for society, I don't feel like that lends to men having a good position on mental health. All right, all right, so let's talk about the origins I feel the manager is born out of. All right, so I think they're born out of what we call hegemonic masculine beliefs. Okay, hegemonic masculinity is a concept that describes the patterns of behaviors, attitudes, that normalize men's dominance over women and other marginalized groups. Okay, so this concept is characterized by let's look at some of the traits Physical strength, aggression and violence, control over the suppression of emotions, the ability to provide and protect, and competitiveness. All right, so when we're looking at that from that standpoint, this is where I have issues with those particular thought processes.

Speaker 1: 14:38

Okay, first of all, men have emotions that need to be expressed and shared in order to learn how to address them. Um, after being in several men's groups and talking with men as a whole, there is a big chasm there, or how you deal with situations emotionally, how you address the situations and what you can actually talk about and not feel vulnerable. Okay, because men have not learned how to express their feelings, as well as hindered the ability to develop ways to deal with their frustrations. The old belief is that you never show weakness through expression of your feelings. I believe that is an antiquated thought and belief. So what is done? Is this led to the radicalization of men? It's led to spree shooters, men participating in ultra-manly organizations and militia groups, targeted terrorist acts and sexual promiscuity and abuse. Sexual promiscuity and abuse. Okay, so those are the things that I feel like it's led to. All right, so we have.

Speaker 1: 16:52

Let me give you an example of what I feel like the radical groups may be, most recently in what we've seen in the media, groups like the Proud Boys. They're self-proclaimed edgelords on the streets, calling themselves Western chauvinist. Okay, they have a hipster vibe to them. They practice testosterone, fetishizing mores. So the practices are ultra, ultra masculine. They they have an initiation ritual which requires violence, for example, and a recruit has to endure punching until he can name five sugar cereals. Okay, that is what I would call some meathead type of activity.

Speaker 1: 18:08

Okay, the next group I would like to talk about would be spree shooters. They are killers that commit shootings and there's not usually a whole lot of time in between these acts. Okay, there are people that are definitely individuals that have intentions to commit multiple acts, usually one right after the other, and this goes on until they're captured. So what comes to mind for me is the Beltway snipers in the early 2000s and most recently in 2021, the Atlanta spa shootings. So, for example, the motive for the Beltway shootings culprit was mental health issues, failed relationship concerns and religious beliefs. So for the Atlanta shooter, the culprit's motivation was sexual addiction, religious beliefs and the anti Asian racism. So the next group would be the ultra-manly.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Okay, so let's talk about one of the groups that I feel like will fall into that category. The patriot front would fall in that category. They are a neo-fascist group that project themselves as patriots. It recruits this effect, I'm sorry. What they do is they recruit from teenagers that have feel like they've been ostracized. So they actually recruit from our teenage demographic in a society. They dress like preppy stormtroopers, they're in khakis, they're in blue windbreakers, they have baseball caps, white neck gathers and sunglasses. Typically, what they do is they show up in flash mobs, they use graffiti, they deface public murals that celebrate diversity and the LGBT community.

Speaker 1: 20:57

Okay, the next group I would like to talk about would be militia organizations. One of the groups that will fall into this category would be the oath keepers. They think of themselves as guardians of the Constitution. They recruit amongst veterans, law enforcement personnel, selling the idea that they are defending the country and the Constitution from its enemies. Defending the country and the Constitution from its enemies. Now, when I take a look at that particular group, it makes me think about a quote from Sinclair Lewis from the 1930s. In his quote, what he says is when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag and carrying a cross. So that group, I feel like, epitomizes that particular quote.

Speaker 1: 22:06

Now, the next set of set of or group of I would like to talk about are individual terrorist actors. So, for example, we had the Tree of Life shooter, robert Bowers. He became radicalized to believe that the Jewish community was taking some of his entitled rights away from him. Okay, and then, lastly, the group would be the group that's focused on being promiscuous sexually and abusing people sexually. Being promiscuous sexually and abusing people sexually, sexual frequency and domination over anyone is considered a measure of man's of one man's manhood, and you can see throughout, after talking with a lot of men. That's something that they use to make themselves feel like sex is something that used to make themselves feel like a man, okay.

Speaker 1: 23:19

So one of the other issues that I want to talk about pertaining to the manosphere and how it's affected, the thoughts and the process of men, is overselling the physical appearance of what you think a man should be. So I believe, in my heart is good to have good, healthy practices, and that should be a part of your life period, no doubt. So wellness checkups, a balanced diet and regular exercise, a regular routine of exercise, is great and that will help you create a balance in life, okay, however, the thought that having the biggest muscles, having the most sculptured body, is a definition of a successful male that's just simply not true and it'll lead to disappointment. Simply not true and it'll lead to disappointment and, unfortunately, a lot of guys just don't have the genetics to compete at such levels, and it's just something that they're born with. So when you're looking at that to measure yourself, you're going to come up with disappointment almost all the time.

Speaker 1: 24:54

Okay, so let's talk about the other areas that I feel like are an issue Aggression and violence. When I think of this one, I think about my generation to now, generation Z. Up to now I'm. I think we've been taught when someone wrongs you, you should reciprocate with some type of physical retribution, and this has been internalized by the American culture, and you can see the escalation of it with each and every generation, to the point where we live now in a punch first shoot first and then deal with the consequence later. Society it's. You know, before it was okay, let's fight, let's see who's the best fighter. Now we're in a situation where we just have young people walking around with guns and they're just shooting people, so the escalation is just definitely grown. That's something else that we just we have to be able to get under control in order to move forward.

Speaker 1: 26:44

The value of one's life is more important than anything else. So the next area that I would like to talk about are men and emotions. In generations past, the message has been to suck it up, don't show weakness or allow yourself to be vulnerable. You know, we've all been taught tough it out, tough it out, right. The problem with that approach is is almost all of us aren't equipped to understand and deal with past traumas and experiences. So basically, what we've done as a society is we put one on top of the other and it gets too big. And when it gets too big and we don't understand it, it just spills over onto those people that are around us. Okay, and you've heard sayings oh, he just snapped right, so that's what happens. Okay, so the ability to protect is also something that we've been told that protect and provide is the male's responsibility and for the most part, most men have completely adopted this as breaks the flow of what you think progression and success is.

Speaker 1: 28:48

Men can oftentimes find that as failure when it's just normal. I don't think there's anyone past the age of 40 that has not had a period in their life where something unexpected has taken place and has interrupted the normal cycle of their life. Okay, but some men internalize this and, um, it's difficult for them to deal with and it can lead to abuse of any type mental, chemical, um, physical, and then even, in some cases, suicide. Okay, so one of the another issue that I feel men chase is the thought that they have to compete with the expectations of others in society. You know our neighbors. While I'll say this, competition is good, but measuring oneself against another person's expectation is definitely cause for disappointment, and that itself can lead to feelings of failure. So these are things that I feel are concerns, all right, All right. So I have a belief and I'm going to address it. Why the manosphere exists here's my thoughts Is a remnant of a period when things were much simpler, the control of societal stimuli was much easier managed, because of limiting beliefs, you know, and these beliefs were held by a large segment of society and they were agreed upon.

Speaker 1: 31:05

So when we received that information, so when we received our information, it was obtained in fewer, more specific applied ways. Right now, there's so much information out there, there's so many different ways to access it, it's difficult to determine whether it's not true, it's misleading or it's true, right. So we didn't have these complications 50 years ago. We didn't even have them 30 and 40 years ago to this degree. Okay, so communication back then was mostly limited to in-person and day-to-day interactions and you know, you were lots of times you were in these environments with these people. So you guys were sharing, people were sharing these ideas and they could easily it was just much simpler, you know, to figure out what's true and what's not. So also, our heroes were usually defined or identified as strong white men, or identified as strong white men. Okay, the smart person was projected as the white guy in the suit and necktie. So it made things much simpler for everyone to believe that the white guy was much more superior in the atmosphere and it created the hegemonic relationship within our culture. So I'll talk about that a little bit later.

Speaker 1: 32:56

So what do we do about it? Hmm, yeah, I don't know. Our society today, in every area, that thought process is being challenged. In technology, we have foreign people, highly educated people, challenging that In medicine, in the medical schools, I believe, is being challenged by a lot of, by the Asian community. So you just have to look and see. From a work standpoint, most business starts in this country are by small business starts in this country are by women. Not most, but a large portion of them, I would say, are by women. So all of these beliefs are being challenged today. So I don't know.

Speaker 1: 34:11

I asked myself what do we do about him? I think the first thing that we need to do is we need to give men the grace and the space to learn that expressing your feelings it's okay to do so, all right. Men should spend more time learning the skills of communication. Men should be taught that those older ideals and practices require additional learning, and some of them have some validity, okay, but they also need to be supplemented with what's taking place now for them to have success in society. Right? I think probably the biggest one is that it needs to be acknowledged that men are having an issue. The suicide rate of men is much higher than women throughout the world and in the United States is three to five times higher in the United States than it is anyplace else. Okay, those things need to be looked at, why they are.

Speaker 1: 35:44

I think, as a whole, we need to look at and acknowledge that society is changing. We can't go back in a time to where things are comfortable for a segment of our demographic to address our issues today. So I think the past election was a referendum on that. So here's my thoughts about that. We're going to overcorrect. I'm not sure how soon it's going to be, but what we tend to do is we back and overcorrect to what's opposite of taking place. Now we have to figure out where the middle is, meet each other, have dialogue and conversation so that we can grow and to become a healthy society.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Okay, so, uh, I also believe that men that feel as though they're grieved um, this needs to be addressed, um, um, this needs to be addressed, um, because if you feel as though you are the only person that this is happening to, you're going to leave out a complete segment of our society. This what men are feeling. It's happening to just about every demographic in this country. That needs to be acknowledged, okay. One of the other things I feel like we need to do is so we've got to get out of the space that saying that developing segments of our society are causing men to lose. So this is not. You can't sustain a healthy mental health place or space. You cannot sustain a healthy mental health space with the belief that someone is taking something from you and it's hurting you in some way and it's hurting you in some way. There has to be space for everybody to feel as though there's progress, right, okay.

Speaker 1: 39:07

And probably the thing I think is probably the most difficult to understand is, or acknowledge, is there's going to be groups of people that are just going to be hungry and they're going to out-compete you. So one of the sayings of one of my favorite football players are a hungry dog runs faster, right. So where's your hunger? Have you lost it? So those are things that I think that we have to acknowledge.

Speaker 1: 39:52

You have to take a look at the top earning groups in this country. They're in those positions, and they're in those positions because they have built in practices and they just continue to grow. There's a cycle that they repeat and it's just. It's just generation to generation and it keeps going. Excuse me, all right.

Speaker 1: 40:22

So one of the things that I think that I'm going to wind up having to do after I started delving into this particular group, I learned that one there's a manosphere and it can be broken up into the white manosphere and the black manosphere. But I've also learned that when you start looking at those things, you start looking at the content and the influencers and their content. You start to see there, and a few other things like the Red, a belief that leads us to what the Manosphere's ideology is founded upon. So let's look for the next episode talking about the Manosphere, the Black Manosphere, and I just want to thank you for following me on Listen Up Podcast. You have a great day For anyone watching this channel. I ask that you please like and subscribe for upcoming videos.