Listen Up with Host Al Neely
Hi, I'm Al Neely. I've spent most of my life asking, " Why do people behave a certain way? Why don't people understand that most everyone wants basically the same thing? Most everyone wants their fundamental need for peace of mind, nourishment, shelter and safety."
What I have learned is that because of an unwillingness to open one's mind to see that some of the people you come in contact with may have those same desires as you do. We prejudge, isolate ourselves, and can be hesitant to interact, and sometimes we can be belligerent towards one another. This is caused by learned behavior that may have repeated itself for generations in our families.
What I hope to do with this podcast is to introduce as many people with as many various cultures, backgrounds, and practices as possible. The thought is that I can help to bring different perspectives by discussing various views from my guests that are willing to talk about their personal experiences.
Hopefully we all will learn something new. We may even learn that most of us share the same desire for our fundamental needs. We may just simply try to obtain it differently.
Sit back, learn, and enjoy!
Listen Up with Host Al Neely
Andre Council on Resilience and Racial Identity: Navigating Systemic Inequality in America
Join us in an eye-opening episode of Listen Up Podcast as we sit down with Andre Council, a respected historian, author, and business consultant. Andre takes us through his inspirational journey, from growing up in Suffolk, Virginia, to becoming an influential figure within the African American community. His candid reflections on the neighborhoods that shaped him, his experiences in the Army, and the personal challenges he faced, including navigating his father's absence, provide a powerful narrative of resilience and growth. Andre also shares insights from his book, "To My Son With Love," offering invaluable guidance for overcoming obstacles and achieving personal success.
Our conversation delves into the systemic challenges and historical injustices that have shaped the Black experience in America. Through Andre's personal anecdotes, we explore the importance of young Black men making conscious decisions to alter their environments, shedding light on the socioeconomic policies and systemic barriers contributing to marginalization. We discuss how American society's embedded violence influences young Black men and stress the need for open, honest dialogue to foster understanding and change. By drawing lessons from history and Martin Luther King Jr.'s ideologies, we tackle the pressing issues of systemic inequality and education, urging the need for reparative programs and a reevaluation of America's struggle with equality.
In this episode, we also touch on the complexities of racial identity, privilege, and assimilation in the American context. Our exploration takes us through the narratives of past and present, highlighting the persistent stereotypes and divisions among racial and ethnic groups. We scrutinize the role of media and public personalities in shaping perceptions, while also addressing the political dynamics influencing Black communities today. From the challenges of voter engagement to the pressures of assimilation faced by immigrant communities, we invite you to reflect on the societal forces that continue to shape race and class dynamics in America.
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Hello everyone, welcome to Listen Up Podcast. I'm Al Neely and today we're here with Andre Council. He's a historian and author and a business consultant. Say hello to everybody, andre, hello everybody, glad to be here, awesome. So I met Andre at a Virginia African American cultural event and we hit it off immediately. We did so. I would like for you to give us a little bit of your background, or you can give us all of it, it's up to you.
Speaker 1:OK, well, come from humble beginnings. My mom had me, you know, fairly early on. She was like 17. Yeah, and essentially I was born in poverty, live with my grandmother and from there um it was born with Suffolk Virginia.
Speaker 2:Okay, they were from Virginia. I'm from Virginia, okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1:And my mom was able to get married Later on. I was probably about four or five years old and we were able to move in a neighborhood that was more middle lower middle class, and then we moved to another neighborhood when I was probably about 13, to a mostly white neighborhood, right. So I was able to see the differences, okay, in the differences in the communities as we moved, and that always sort of sticks with me. I went to high school and I was influenced mostly by a lot of white kids who were, who were going to college. Ok, we also. I was also influenced because I had moved to Portsmouth by then, right, yeah, and so we are also influenced by a lot of kids who were going to college.
Speaker 1:I got into ODU without even having an interview, but most of that reason was because of who I was surrounded by. I was taking advanced classes, that sort of thing, but then I also had I played basketball, so I also had football, so I also had people who look like me brown, you know, black people, black men who were around me, who didn't have that same experience. Gotcha, right, because of where they were from. Was your father absent? Or I had a stepfather? Okay, in my life. Okay, I had a stepfather. My biological dad gave me up for adoption when I was four, so he kind of abandoned me, walked out on me, do?
Speaker 2:you feel like that's what he did Abandoned you yeah.
Speaker 1:I know that's a pretty strong word, but I think it fits. I think his intentions may have been motivated by different things, right. But at the same time, you know, and having gone through what I've gone through, I look at it like I would never do that to any of my children, and maybe that was because it was done to me and maybe that was because it was done to me, ok. So so yeah, but just you know. As far as a little bit more about me, I went on to college, I was joined the United States Army, I served in the army for five years. I got to live in South Korea to see another, completely different culture.
Speaker 1:I went through a tough marriage with my son's mother starting out in life, and, you know, we ended up getting divorced.
Speaker 1:I got remarried to the love of my life, my soulmate, and so I know how both extreme, you know that is as far as having someone ideal, not having someone ideal, right, as far as a partner goes. But you know, just as far as my career goes, it's just been trying to find my space. I have an entrepreneurial spirit, yes, but it's very difficult I'm not going to say difficult. You really have to know how to apply that and make it work. And it's not easy, and a lot of people think that starting a business is easy and it's. I'm learning and have learned that it is one of the hardest things when you're trying to juggle, you know, kids or home and everything else, and you're trying to apply your time to something that you feel passionate about. Your time to something that you feel passionate about, but a lot of times that that passion may not always be available for you to express, and then it's all about being strategic and just being brave and being courageous, but then also having the time to fit all that into your life. Right, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Andre's written a book. It's called To my Son With Love. Subtitle is how to Stay on the Path to Success Despite Obstacles and Adversity 70% through the book. Okay, so at first, when I was wanting to have this conversation with you, I just kind of wanted to talk about a lot of the different things. Then you can actually you can see on YouTube. You can find Andre where he talks a little bit about his, what his inspiration is for the book and his different life experiences that led up to him writing this book. Yeah, and you're attached to your bio. But if you just Google, is it? If you just go to YouTube and put Andre, counseling will pop up, or do you need to put the name of the?
Speaker 1:book you pop up. You can also go to MeaningfulWorksPublishingcom. You can also go to MeaningfulWorks Publishing the Facebook page, and the video is being played.
Speaker 2:OK, well, I need to. Ok, great, so that's fantastic. So there's a whole lot that I want to talk you to. That Okay, great, so that's fantastic. So there's a whole lot that I want to talk to you about because we think similarly. And then I kind of just wanted to be a discussion because I never feel as though not that I never.
Speaker 2:I always feel free to ask people questions, but sometimes it's a little bit difficult to when you're dealing with certain topics maybe not so much topics as people, but one of the things I want to talk about is I want to talk about the black culture, I want to talk about black men, and we've made it so uncomfortable in this country to have this conversation. And then today's date is November 19th, 2024. So, after this election, I am not going to feel comfortable having this conversation. The people that know me, the people that are in my family, the people that have spent time with me, the people that work with me, they know who I am. Ok, but one of the things that I want to make sure it's clear is that you and I can talk about this, yes, and no matter what people are going to judge us. Yeah, okay, yeah, but if you feel like there is some type of discomfort, you probably need to check to figure out why you feel uncomfortable about this situation.
Speaker 2:And talking about race in this country, right, because our whole election was based on it. Absolutely the results, absolutely the campaign, the entire thing. Yes, we may be having to redo all of this foundation that was put in place from a movement during the sixties. We may have to to to wind up readdressing all of this, right? Okay, so let me just talk about, let me ask you this, all right. So you explained your socioeconomic upbringing, your education, yes, and your career background, ok. In the book you talk about young men. How do we get young men to change the way that they're seeing their environment? What do you feel would be important and what's necessary for that to take place?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So there's a saying that goes your environment will always trump your will. That's a saying, and it's true to a certain degree. So what you have to do, and what we have to do, is we have to change the mindset by exposing these same kids to things that appear outside of their environment. Growing up, right, if the exposure that I had was very similar to what a white kid might have in the suburbs, but it was because of my grandmother and my mother introducing a different lifestyle than the kids who might live next door to me or what they experienced, and so I do thank my mother for that, uh and that what type of work did your mom do?
Speaker 1:She worked for the government, she worked for the Navy, worked for the government for 20 something years, Okay, and uh, you know I thank her for that because and my grandmother, uh, she would always have these conversations with me and she lived in, you know, lower income areas and I spent most of the time with her growing up. I went, I caught the school bus from her house, went back to her house after school and she would always tell me and you know, there were kids selling dope and stuff like that and she always told me you're not, you're not going out there, you don't go out there, You're not, you're not going out there, you don't go out there. And even from participating in community events, there are parents who stand up to gang members, Single mothers, gang members who come to their house and they say you're not going to have my son, and that's the kind of parenting that is needed. The problem is that there's no book on parenting and there are no classes that people have to take to parent. It's all about changing the mindset and you have to. You're fighting a battle against culture. You're fighting a battle against music that tells you and identifies who you are and then you identify with that character. But you know, ultimately, I think everybody, we're all actors, right. We're choosing the roles that we want to play, and you have to.
Speaker 1:I remember I was 13 years old and I was. I had just gotten to a new school. I was hanging out with the wrong crowd and I got caught by the principal and she told me you need to stop hanging around these kids, Fast forward to. I was failing history. This is the first time I was ever failing a class in my life. It was a newness was the first time I was ever failing a class in my life. It was a newness. It was not me not doing anything.
Speaker 1:And I made a decision right then that I was 13 years old and I'll never forget it. I said I'm going to because before that point I had always done things to try to please my parents, to stay out of trouble, to not get whippings and stuff like that, and I made the decision. I was like I'm going to do this for myself. I'm going to put myself on the path of wanting to go to college and achieving good things because I want something better for myself, and I don't think young men come to that point, that juncture, in their lives and they're not pushed to write where they have to make a decision. And I steal this on my son. He got into trouble one time and the same thing happened. I said you have to make the decision for yourself, not for me, Right? You're doing this for yourself, Right? So ultimately, you know again, to answer your question, we have to change the mindset and understand that we're competing with that environment.
Speaker 2:OK. Ok. So your book I don't know when you started writing it, but it looks like you were writing it during the pandemic. It came out halfway through the pandemic, yeah, which was a different world. We I look at pre pandemic, the pandemic, and then now I haven't really figured out where we are in terms of society in America and it has yet to be defined but it's coming, defined but it's coming. So we, basically, from the time your books come out, we've changed twice in our culture. So when you think about that and you're applying your principle of we have to change their environment, when you're thinking about how you grew up and how you were saying that there's limited opportunities for them, how would young black men put themselves in a place, place it's kind of difficult to answer this I'm thinking, but how would they put themselves in a place to change their environment based on their structural foundation, all?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 2:How do you think that that was so?
Speaker 1:I think we have to make sure that we understand the history of Black people in this country, Because Machiavelli and I don't know the quote verbatim right, but he said in order for us to look to the future and understand the future, we must consult the past right. Our past are a direct connection to the present and the future. Frederick Douglass said if you do not know your history, you are not well. You're not a well person, You're unhealthy, if you do not know and acknowledge and understand your history Right. So we have to, I think we have to understand the history of this country. What?
Speaker 1:is the history of this country, which means that black people have been marginalized, black people have been wronged in so many ways, and I had this discussion with a gentleman that I served on a committee with is a white guy, older white guy, and we both came to conclusion, after after talking about this, that what we see and I'm just going to specifically talk about young Black men who you see on TV, on the news every night this person murdered this person. This person did this person, these young men, were put in these environments due to the unfair and draconian legislation in the United States, the unfair treatment in the United States from the point of slavery all the way and there's a social evolution that you have to understand but from the point of when there was slavery all the way through 1960s. Think about that. Right, so we were.
Speaker 1:We were said to have been free in 1865 or 1866, juneteenth, whenever you decide that they declare us to be free. But if we were free, why? Why was there Jim Crow? Why was there all these different measures to keep us in bondage, so to speak, a different type of bondage, and why were they still trying to gain freedom in the 1960s? If we were free, we weren't free. That's a misnomer, that's, that's not true. We weren't free. And just to fast forward, like I was saying, I was having a conversation.
Speaker 2:I was at effect today. I was having a conversation.
Speaker 1:I was having that conversation and what we've, what we discovered in having and having that talk, was that these young men and many people in that community, in the communities lower poverty. We make up 20 percent of the poverty poverty, but only 13 percent of the population is black people. The problem is that these environments were manufactured. They were manufactured right.
Speaker 1:In economics, there's this thing called the invisible hand. The invisible hand is basically it's a capitalistic term everything settling in the way that the free market is allowing it to, which includes to me, it includes socioeconomic policies. Ok, right. So all these things are happening and you're giving white people land for free, You're giving white people who are immigrants land for free, while black people continue to struggle, we're getting lynched, and even when they tried to excel, to thrive, you burnt down their towns, as in Tulsa, Oklahoma, as in Wilmington, North Carolina, you burnt down their homes, and not only does that have an effect on the people whose homes you burnt down the printing presses that you burned down but it sends a message of deterrence for anyone black to even try to aspire Right. And I think that has led to where we are today, which is young black men seeing themselves as this is my only opportunity to live life. It's a. It's a sense of hopelessness. It's a sense of this is my only way to live life.
Speaker 2:What are you talking about?
Speaker 1:So so I saw this young man on TV two days ago. He got a 16 year prison sentence for selling fentanyl. Prison sentence for selling fentanyl and you know he had guns in his house or whatever. That's the life that he chose to lead, right? Why did he choose that life? Why did he? Did he think that there was no way for him to go to college? I think, young black man, and it starts very early on in life as far as what you're introduced to your surroundings. Okay, I knew and I knew a young lady can.
Speaker 2:I want to say something, okay, so, before I late lose my train of thought. Yeah, you're talking about this, and this is something that I think about often. Yeah, I research it. Okay, you're right, it's an issue with the black community. Yeah, but if you take a look at what just happened, it's not just an issue with the black community, it's an American issue. Oh, absolutely it's. It's.
Speaker 2:The entire culture is set up so that, um, well, first of all, you need to understand where it is that you live, we, we, we live in a capitalistic society, okay, so, um, the money, elites and the oligarchies run this country. They do, okay, all right, so, and it's always been like that, okay, but in the American culture, um, is embedded violence, true, constant. So, yeah, you can embrace violence, true, constant. So, yeah, you can embrace violence. Um, it's used quite a bit to intimidate and to get what, uh, people want. So, yes, it's the entire American culture. It is okay, we, we're are the most armed country. Yep, okay, okay, we feel like, every time there's a conflict personal or whatever and you know what the funny thing about this is you kind of address this in your book.
Speaker 2:Okay, I, I'm gonna use it. Take a little section out of your book that you were talking about. Yeah, the the incident that you had when you were. You just wanted to give the girl a card. Okay, and this is a typical example of what takes place in this country. Absolutely doesn't matter what race you are, okay, if you are at a certain social economic level, this is how you think. Okay. So you gave her a card, all right, and her boyfriend saw you doing that. You had no intentions, am I correct? I'm, I'm yeah, kind of paraphrase.
Speaker 1:Your story Okay.
Speaker 2:So, um, you tried to explain that to him. There was no having a conversation with him. No, am I correct? Yeah, ok, so you know? That's exactly where we are right now in this country. Ok, we cannot have a conversation. Everybody wants to put a gun in your face and everybody wants to show that. Ok, I got a gun on Facebook. You know what? Everybody's got a gun in this country, right, okay, right, all right. So what happens to the conversation? Okay, and your story? Um, talk about what happened in that story. Yeah, so, so you'll see what I'm trying to get, what's unfolding?
Speaker 1:here, yeah. So he begins to yell at me and I go back and forth so I leave that premise. We get broken up. We were going to fight that day. That night I leave, I see a couple of friends of mine at the convenience store up the street and he was like what happened? Because I was probably a little excited or whatever. What's going on? What's going on? And so he was like oh, I got my gun right here, we can go handle that, your friend.
Speaker 2:My friend, your friend, okay, my friend, all right. So that's the immediate thought. Yeah, that's the immediate thought. Yeah, that's the immediate thought. With Americans, yes, okay, yeah, so my let's handle it. So, let's handle it with a gun. I want, I want to shoot Somebody cuts you off in traffic. Yeah, okay, all right, let's keep going, cause I want to go to the deeper problem. Okay, okay, but I wanted to set this up because you kind of addressed it and I actually want to go a layer under what you were talking about. So go ahead.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we go around and where they were and in a neighborhood adjacent to it there's a wall that separates Okay, where they were partying and where we were right, we could see through the fence, we could see them, we could see them very clearly. And my friend pulled out his gun and he was going to start shooting and I stopped him and I told him I was like man, it's not worth it. I don't even know this girl, I barely know this girl. It's not worth you getting in trouble, me getting in trouble. So we walked away and I don't know if you want me to stop there.
Speaker 2:No, I want you to go, because this is a microcosm of the entire country. But go ahead. But but if you listen to the narrative that the influencers are people that want to push about the black community, they, they want to make this an isolated problem in that community. Okay, when the entire country's like this, right, okay, so keep going, keep going, okay.
Speaker 1:So, um, fast forward a couple of weeks. Me and this same guy, we see each other, we look at each other with the mean mug and we keep it moving. And then my friend tells me he's like man, y'all gonna have to just fight, like that's the only way that this is going to be resolved. And I was like, oh, I'm not a fighter, I can defend myself and I can fight. Now I don't want to fight, right, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So, me and the guy, we were at a band competition in Suffolk and we see each other and we fight. Uh, during the fight actually, um, and you know, I doesn't matter who won or who lost, uh, but during the fight I'm on top of him and you know, I'm punching the whale in the way and somebody in the crowd that I don't even know, I don't even know if he knew, pulls out a gun and points it at me. Luckily, my cousin ended up, you know, kind of squashing. He was there, I was there with my cousin, he kind of squashed it, but we ended up fighting. And that's the way we settle our issues through violence. That's America we're taught. That's America. It is America, absolutely Okay. I just think it's different in our subculture because of different reasons.
Speaker 2:Yes, and this is where I was saying I've thought about this and I think about it and I've, I've gone in those environments, I spend time with those people, so I'm, I ask them questions and I try to figure out how to elevate that community. So I'm just going to tell you about some of the things that I feel like I've learned from it. Ok, but here's the thing If you had just taken two minutes and say you know what? I don't have any type of attraction to her. Ok, I was just making a gesture of kindness, you don't have to feel threatened by me, right, and we're just friends, and that should have been what you should have been able to say to handle the issue, right. So cooler has prevailed, but as a possibility that there was going to be at least two different shootings from this incident, because we don't communicate, right, correct, right and. But our first response is to escalate to the point where there's violence, right?
Speaker 1:There's a lack of critical thinking, there's a lack of understanding what your consequences are going to be. But I can tell you this too right when you're in that situation, there's ego, there's pride. All those things come into play that prevent you from wanting to have that conversation. Because having that conversation is not what people who look like we do. That's not what we do. That's part of this identity.
Speaker 2:That's part of the mentality or the makeup identity that we yeah, that we have to cry embedded into the male ideology in this country. Absolutely okay, so that's where that comes from, all right, so, um, you were talking about.
Speaker 2:Uh, I kind of lost my train, that's okay, but you were talking about, um, the different variables that were taking place, and I said I wanted to go um a layer underneath. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. So here's my thought Okay, okay. And I've started practicing this, so I'm not sure I've been practicing it for a year or two. When you're dealing with people, you don't know what their experiences are, no, you don't. You don't know what's traumas taking place in their lives, absolutely, and people act differently based on each situation they do. So you probably should have a little bit of pause and grace and maybe think about that as to why they're addressing that particular situation that way. And there's been a lot of trauma. Absolutely, there's been a lot of trauma. There's been a lot of experience in the black frustration community, ok, and I don't think it's understood how to deal with it.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you brought that up, right. So I'm going to say this and I mean this. So I mean this from the bottom of my heart, and this is the problem that we have Right Is that things have to be fixed socioeconomically. There's no other way. And, as a matter of fact, martin Luther King this was the direction that he had was going to explore before he was assassinated. Right, he spoke about that. Right he he actually had regret about how integration, or disintegration, right had such an effect on white America in a positive manner, because we, instead of patroning our black businesses, we began to patron white businesses, and I believe that the road that he was going down was for things like reparations programs, and this is the only way this is going to be fixed. We have to have deliberate programs that challenge their ways of thinking, that educate them on their own environments and how to survive those environments, environments and how to survive those environments. If you tell me that the way, the reason why people are acting that way was because of their ancestors and their ancestors before them were put in a position where they were oppressed, and the results of that and don't get me wrong, not all black people are poor, not all black people, but we're talking about, you know, violence and stuff like that. The violence has always been there, the frustration has always been there. The only way to fix these types of things is through robust programs that address the issues head on.
Speaker 1:Tupac tupac before he passed away, he he was doing an interview. I think he was like 17 years old and they were talking to him about school. Right, he said I get it, we need to be educated. But I can far better benefit from somebody teaching me how to survive the streets of Oakland, california, rather than teaching me algebra or teaching me, whatever the case may be that's not English and not math, the skills that you have to have to succeed in life or just to get by. But I need someone, I needed somebody to teach me how to survive these streets and I totally agree with that perception, because you have to when you, when you deep down in it and this has been your life, because it doesn't happen overnight, right, these kids and we, as young black men, I think we're, we're taught to behave a certain way, right, and it happens.
Speaker 1:I remember just to give you an example, I remember when my son was growing up. It was a young kid that was around the same age as him. They were about 12, 13 years old. I would never my son. I teach him not to steal. You know those were just givens. You teach your children to behave in a certain way, but not all parents are doing that and, as a matter of fact, a lot of parents are complicit. I would later learn you might think that you know the parent next, the parent next door, the mother next door and single mothers have it tough and I get it. You know, a lot of times it's tough raising three. In this case they had. She had three boys. Again, one of them was my age.
Speaker 1:So this kid was walking, going around the neighborhood at about 13 years old, busing through people's doors, stealing, stealing bicycles, stealing everything that he can get his hands on Right, stealing everything. You know what his mother was doing she was taking the stuff to the pawn shop. She was taking the items he was stealing to the pawn shop. This was a mother complicit, right, yeah. And you know what happened a couple of weeks later. So he had broken to the wrong house, right? Another man came right in front of him and put a gun to his head. It was threatening to blow his brains out because he had broken into his house, right? Instead of the mother teaching the son. This is not what we do and there are many myriad of reasons why this is happening. Right Right has everything to do with she just she. She was just looking for a way to make some extra money and, based on her background, and based on what she had learned prior to, maybe where her parents told her that was the way to do it Right.
Speaker 2:So I want to go back to something. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, You're fine.
Speaker 2:I don't want to cut you off. Yeah, you were talking about Martin Luther King, I was OK. And luther king, I was okay. And, um, I would have to say, um, I've studied, I've ingested a lot of his thought process and, um, um, his ideologies, yeah, okay. Okay, martin luther king had gotten to the point where it wasn't just about the black community when he started going around different parts of the world and he started seeing them. This is a social, economic issue. So we're talking about black men Because we're black men, right, okay, we're talking about the black community because we spent most of our time in the black community, but this is an issue that plagues all communities.
Speaker 2:Martin Luther King talked about that, right. He talked about the escalation of the military around the world. Yes, money we spend on the military yes, okay. And how little we spend. It would take just a fraction of the money that we spend the most just to feed everyone, okay.
Speaker 2:So when you take a look at that situation and then you take a look at why it's not done, that lets you know that this is a ideology that's based on the free market. Money, power, yes, money and power, ok. So I just just kind of wanted to bring that up, ok, so I just just kind of wanted to bring that up. So when you think about what you were just talking about, you you always mention education. You talk a lot about education in your book, right? So one of the things that I've noticed when I'm talking to families that are like that they're not thinking about education, right, they're not thinking about, um, a savings account or bank account. They're thinking about one how they're going to feed themselves, survival, survival, okay, they're thinking about how they're going to make it from the next day, survival, survival.
Speaker 2:They're thinking about how they're going to make it from the next day, from one day to the next day, and they don't have a plan, right? Ok, lack of resources, lack of resources, and they can't figure it out. So they're. They're living their lives day to day. They're living their lives day to day, ok. And of course, it's difficult for you to think about reading a book and educating yourself when you're hungry. That's true. Ok, that's just not your, that's not your first thought. Ok, so you've been blessed not to have that issue.
Speaker 2:I've been blessed not to have that issue. So I think it's made a difference, one of those things that made a difference. So I just said all of that, just to say that's what I've discovered. Yeah, okay, yeah, that they don't think like that.
Speaker 1:Why? Why don't?
Speaker 2:they think like that Because they were asking me or you weren't a reason why what is?
Speaker 1:what do you think? What do you what? Why do I? What's, what's absent?
Speaker 2:Um uh. There's a number of things. One there is a basic. First of all, it's all about education. Education is the the one thing that can equalize all of this. But some people are comfortable. Some people don't have the willpower. I think you have a willpower and I think you have the desire. I do stay persistent on some. Some people cannot. So I think you have to factor in quite a few things. You have to factor into trauma, you have to factor in sexual abuse, you have to factor in just the fact that there's a lack of resources. Those are your issues for basically why this happens constantly. Okay, so, and then there are a few people out there that can have a conversation and put together content. That's a workable plan for you to get out of that situation once you are. So I think that's what you were trying to do. That's what you've been spending most of your time trying to do.
Speaker 1:Right. So for me it's about awareness, but in order to solve the bigger problem. Ok if you go back and look at history, there have been moments from the time that black people were free from slavery, from slavery right, all the way through, let's say again, the 1960s, the 1970s, where they were um, they were marginalized by legislation of the united states, policies of the united states, things that intentionally left them without the ability to build wealth Right.
Speaker 2:Without.
Speaker 1:You ever heard of what happened to the GIs in World War II? Which ones? The black?
Speaker 2:ones.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, one point Very few things I haven't heard about 1.2 million black men who served in World War II were completely left out of the ability to access the GI Bill.
Speaker 2:I used the GI Bill.
Speaker 1:Couldn't buy homes. When they went to try to get an education through college, they told them to get it. These are the types of things that I say using Newton's third law is with every action there's a reaction. For every moment in history where we can go back and we can point to things just like that, there should be some type of program that is funded by the United States to compensate for that right.
Speaker 2:That's not going to happen now. It's not going to happen in the next four years.
Speaker 1:But why?
Speaker 2:Why? Yeah, because it's it's clearly understood that there's a ruling class, ok, and the ruling class does not, and this is what I keep trying to get everybody to understand, that, and this is what I keep trying to get everybody to understand that, right, let me ask you this and then I'll come back to this. Ok, are you a racist?
Speaker 1:I can't be a racist.
Speaker 2:Ok, it's impossible for me to be a racist or are you a black nationalist? I don't consider myself a black nationalist, ok, so just want to get that out there, because you're going to be accused of that. What's the other one? Okay? So yeah, those are the things. Those are the things that white people don't want to talk about.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:They're comfortable talking about. Those are the first things that they want to label you as Right, right, right.
Speaker 2:Radical going to label you as right, right, right and radical. Once again, I think, with our backgrounds being diverse, yes, who we work with, um, how we we go in between all the various cultures, yes, sure, okay, that we just see things. But the reason we're having this conversation and I'm going to say it again, the reason we're having this conversation is because we're black men Right, okay, right, and we see the issues in the black community. Yeah, right, because we're black, we grew up black, we spent most of our time with black folks, so we can see this. So it's not a conversation about black nationalism, or we're not calling anybody that doesn't agree with us a racist. So we don't want you to call us racist. We're having a conversation. So, yeah, yeah, so I, I just want to get that out there because, that's usually what happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you get a bunch of people that, oh, you're racist. This is the same stuff that y'all always talk about. I'm tired of hearing this, so they dismiss it when you say they, uh anybody that doesn't agree with you.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay no matter what, no, no matter what, no matter what background.
Speaker 2:Um, if you're black, and I mean if you, if you're some other race besides black, this is I get tired of hearing it. You know y? Um, if you're black, and I mean if you, if you're some other race besides black, this is I get tired of hearing it. You know y'all. You just suck it up. Yeah, you cannot suppress centuries of trauma, yeah, and experiences and expect that person to exactly act, exactly the way you are, when you have not had those experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so America is a paradox. Yeah, and one moment they forgot to ask your question. In one moment they scream liberty and justice for all. Everybody has equal rights, and that's just not true. And if you want that to be true, which that's my perspective I want the same thing that America says it stands for. So it's not me being a Black nationalist or having any extreme views, I just have the same views that America has.
Speaker 2:Exactly right.
Speaker 1:The same views, the same things.
Speaker 1:If you keep your promises, america, right, if you keep your promises in the Constitution of the United States, the preamble, if you live by those words and then you examine the history of our people, you will understand.
Speaker 1:Even to this day, the treatment is unfair, the education gaps, all those things are unfair and they should be addressed using funding from the United States, because the United States is primarily responsible for the situations.
Speaker 1:I'm just telling you like this, right? So if we think about the corporations that exist in America, right, the corporations that have been around for a hundred years, there's no doubt in my mind that if you rewind and go back and give the people, the black people of that moment, opportunities to succeed, they would have done so. So we'd be talking about your car companies, like Ford, chrysler, anything you can see as a robot. Those companies, some of those companies would have been black owned and the opportunities would have existed, would have looked different, like you might see that blacks have progressed in in this state of america in 2024, right? No, we're not all living in poverty. What I'm telling you is, if you find someone who is, who went to Old Dominion or who went to Virginia Wesleyan right, and you compare that to kids who are going to Columbia and Harvard and Princeton, that shift would have taken place Like right now.
Speaker 1:In the last 20 years we have a lot of Black students who were first-time college graduates in their families, but that would have happened a long time ago, and so when you think about social evolution, that's where we should have been okay so well and there's a there's a lot of talk about and reparations gets a very and of course they do everything they can to try to extinguish any type of progressive ideas that are directed at black people, which is totally unfair and it goes against what the Constitution stands for, which is fairness and equity and all that stuff. But do?
Speaker 2:you do know that Donald Trump says I don't know if he's going to do it. He says he wants to terminate the Constitution.
Speaker 1:No, I haven't heard that.
Speaker 2:Ok, so do it. He says he wants to terminate the constitution. No, I haven't heard that. Okay, so all of that would go away. So you, you even talk about your protections in your book. You give a step by step, um, uh, way that you should address when a police officer comes to you yeah, if the constitution is terminated, all of that goes away. You weren't, did you realize that you don't have protections anymore? So, okay, I won't say one thing I'm going to go back to. Yeah, you were talking about, we were talking about the different levels. So the issue is the issue is you have a ruling class. In my opinion, you do, because you have a ruling class. We're black, so we're talking about black folks, but it hurts every race of person or people in this country that are marginalized in the country. So this is not something that, yes, we're having a black conversation because we feel like there's things that need to be addressed, but this is a conversation that everybody that does not have in this country should be having.
Speaker 1:So, okay, but I just want to say that no no, I totally agree with you and I believe wholeheartedly that we should see each other as Americans first and everything else should be secondary. Yeah, so there. So when you say something about black jobs, there is no black job.
Speaker 2:This is an American job.
Speaker 1:There was only American jobs. And even if you look at at if okay. So let's just say for argument's sake that America does all these, introduces all these programs to help Black people succeed the way that they should have done in the past. Right, let's just say we implement these things, and I know this is not going to happen anytime soon, but I'm just saying if right.
Speaker 2:You have to look at this and if I'm white right, I want to give if, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have to look at this. And if I'm white, right, I want to give you a different perspective. You have to look at this from a place of if. If black people succeed, that's America succeeding, not just black people, right? So if we raise the bar, it's not a competition. We're not taking your jobs or anybody else's jobs. These are American jobs and we have to see each other in that prism.
Speaker 1:You know, and I know, we were all look different and because of our historic you know makeup historic makeup, but context, right, you know makeup, historic makeup, but context right. The historic context of the way people have been treated in this country it kind of makes it okay to continue to treat people, to continue to look at people like that. They say you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and they say they give you all these you know different suggestions on how to how you should succeed as a, as a black folk, especially on that side, on the right-wing side, is that their whole notion is that you should be, you should make better decisions, and you should if you've never been in that situation before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another thing that bothers me People that never been in that situation don't have an experience and they want to tell you what to do.
Speaker 1:Right, right Right.
Speaker 2:You don't know what it's like.
Speaker 1:No, you do.
Speaker 2:You know you're. You're, of course you're dealing with your everyday issues, but, again, these are traumas, these are things that have been one thing after another, yeah, for decades. Yes, ok, yes, that your family has had to endure, yes, right, and we all have had that older person, especially probably you. Yeah, I have people that are from my family's, from me, even though I grew up in Philadelphia. Ok, I do have family from here.
Speaker 2:Ok, so you've had, you know, the older uncle, the grandparent, tell you about things, what they couldn't do and they could not do. Or they were just afraid, right, just afraid to get off the school bus, right, right, because of terrorists. Yes, right, just afraid to get off the school bus, right, right, because of terrorists. Yes, right To. I just did a podcast with Carlos Moreno, the author of Victory for Greenwood. Ok, and just the fact that a riot they said it was a riot started because a young man had a conversation with a white woman in town. Yeah, right, so those are the things that you hear, those are the traumas that you hear, right, so it kind of goes in one ear and out the other. You know you can't let it upset you, because everybody's going to have their opinion about it Sure.
Speaker 2:But it would be nice if we got to a place where you know what you should handle your own family things you know, as opposed to trying to tell somebody else what to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, but from their position it just is so easy to do. It's almost like a parent and a child.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a preconceived, I guess, ideology that's embedded with incorrect information.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely the inferiority complex.
Speaker 2:It's all embedded with incorrect information.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and not a strong perspective on history? I think a lot of people. It was amazing to me to find out that so many people were not aware of what happened in Tulsa, oklahoma. I understand why, but you know I saw Tom Hanks do this video on social media where he was so appalled and he was so surprised. I'm like that's just such a small piece of a bigger puzzle right that if you only knew, if we only knew, if everyone knew the truth in its entirety, I think minds might change, hearts might change, and that's why they want to do away with any sort of progress.
Speaker 2:Every time there's any sort of progress, they want to take folks out of school yeah, that's why. Or you want to do with the D-I yeah Sayings, which Squash that Right they. Or you want to do with the DE DI yeah Sayings which squash that Right, they don't want to do that. Any of the programs that help to educate?
Speaker 1:Right. Why do they want to do that? Why is there?
Speaker 2:such as the ruling class, wants to retain power.
Speaker 1:So the ruling class, do you? Do you think the ruling class has anything to do with race?
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:OK, it's definitely.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:We're definitely in a hegemonic society.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:Right and at the top of the hegemonic society are are white men are white men.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's it. Yeah, and they and they you know, fear is a very very strong emotion Right.
Speaker 1:It makes you do things and it gives you justification for thinking the way that you think it is, and it allows people to say well, I'm gonna vote for him, regardless of anything that you can say that would be negative for any person running for office, any person who is in the leadership in a position. I'm gonna vote for him because of inflation. That I mean. That's just not true. How can the wealthiest people in America when we're talking about ethnicity, white people you have more resources than anybody else in this country yet you're telling me that you're so affected by inflation that you're going to vote for trump? That's regardless.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's what they're saying. Um, um, I think, um, that in fact, is true, but what they're saying are the people that are struggling, which is the lower, the impoverished, the lower middle class. Ok, what they're saying is you are struggling because of you know the operation. People come to this country and all the wild, they're not fiscally responsible.
Speaker 1:OK, who's not physically, physically responsible?
Speaker 2:The people that are running the government. Ok, doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter if they're Republican or Democrat. Neither, neither OK, but neither are fiscally responsible.
Speaker 1:Right. So if you look at the programs right, just the programs and the incentives what motivates these candidates to do what they do? One person, one person and money. One person wants to do everything that he can for the wealthiest people in this country. Regardless, I don't care what color you are.
Speaker 2:He doesn't care.
Speaker 1:For me to understand that certain people cannot see that or see through that. It would be unfathomable for me to just take that on its surface. I know for a fact. Well, I'm not going to say I know for a fact. I feel very strongly that I could factually bring evidence to point to the fact that these people voted for Donald Trump because he hears them, he attaches himself to white supremacy and that's their motivation, because they know that he's going to preserve that white nationalism, that white superiority in this country.
Speaker 2:And it's always been that way and they've always thought that way Not all of them of, of course, but obviously enough of them to vote him as president right I'd have to be honest with you here and I never thought we were in this place, um, but after what just took place with this election, I would have to say we're amongst probably the top racist and misogynistic countries in the entire world.
Speaker 1:Number one.
Speaker 2:I don't know, because I haven't been in the rest of them, that's true, but of this advanced culture, this election was a referendum on that, those things, oh yeah, yeah, because you, I feel like your egg, your price, your eggs are gonna go up, your gas is gonna probably go down, and the reason your gas is gonna go down? Because he's putting a bunch of oil people in this cabinet. But right, that's my opinion yeah, yeah and I hope I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:Right, but I, I thought we were different and you just look at who voted and who voted for what Hope, and that's the conclusion that I've come to. Right, and people try to use the excuse of those same things, but no, you want to stay in a position of power and privilege.
Speaker 1:Right. And that's basically what it is yeah, that has everything to do with abortion.
Speaker 2:Right. So one third of the country? Here's the thing. One third of the country didn't participate, so two thirds of the country did, and the slight majority of the two thirds of the country that voted for it feel that way. Yeah, so, but that was one thing that surprised me. The other thing that surprised me was there are so many people that are just disinterested. A third of this country don't care about voting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:How do?
Speaker 2:we live and how this affects your life.
Speaker 1:It's nuts for me and a lot of people, actually a lot of people that voted, had to be pushed and moved to vote.
Speaker 1:I heard of situations and stories where I voted because my girlfriend told me I better vote. To know that, and that's what I can't keep harping back on. The same thing about history to know that mega Evers was out trying to register black people to vote, comes home is murder in front of his own home for registering people to vote, and to me what I mean I've always voted in every election but to hear that there is nothing stopping me from voting in any election because of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're from a different generation. Now, this young generation, the younger generation, gets their information from different places. They do Right.
Speaker 1:They do.
Speaker 2:They don't study it.
Speaker 1:You got to search for it, though you got to go looking for that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:I've had people ask me has they have no idea about anything about Donald Trump, and they were asking me days before the election to tell them about Donald Trump. And it's a little difficult because I grew up in Philly and my parents had a house in South Jersey, so I technically been following Donald Trump since the late 80s, early 90s, so I was able to tell them what I know about Donald Trump and they were like, oh, they don't know because they don't get their information from. I don't know where they get their information from anymore. I'm I'm just assuming it's um, either podcasts or they're talking to people because people don't watch the news anymore. Yeah, um, I do know that a large uh segment of the black men um follow joe rogan. Yeah, um, and uh, you know, I I haven't listened to Joe Rogan.
Speaker 2:I know he's probably the number one. Yeah, he is, and when it comes to influencers and things like that, so I would have to listen to his content. What I would imagine? There's a disconnect, because we're talking about these experiences and I'll say this about black men. There's black men that are curious. They just don't know how to get there and they don't know, so their impressions or their mentors are different, so let's talk about leadership.
Speaker 1:How about leadership?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so there's a lack of leadership. Yes, but that's the other effect of not having people in places where you can see them in corporations or you can see them as executives yeah Right, and they don't know that. Ok, you know, you don't have to sell drugs to make that kind of money. You could do other things to make that kind of money Absolutely, or more. Yeah Right. So I mean, you're a finance, so I think they're young men, period, but black men they're definitely seeking those things out and they don't know how to get to one level or the next, so they are influenced by what they see.
Speaker 1:I will say this. I will say this about hip hop Right. I will say this. I will say this about hip-hop, right. I will say this there's there's a lot.
Speaker 1:There has been a lot of confusion when it comes to a specific concentration on black men and voting and who they voted for, who they didn't vote for. I could understand why there was a backlash, and this because I don't think that the black man's vote, or anybody black vote, should be automatically guaranteed to one party or the other, right? I don't think that and I think that was the the mindset of a lot of these young men who said I'm not voting just to vote for Democrats anymore, because I can't see how my life has gotten any better from voting for Democrats, and that's because Democrats can only anybody who gains office. But I think you know it's slanted a little bit that Democrats are going to be a little bit more liberal, to have liberal programs that will help support black communities, more so than the Republican agenda. But the way it was perceived was that under Trump's presidency things were better.
Speaker 2:So there's a reason why they think that yeah.
Speaker 1:Misinformation. No, you're right Misinformation.
Speaker 2:Well, misinformation Plus, they got a check. Yeah, ok, that was, that was pretty embarrassing, but they got a check that was issued by Congress. Yes, and Congress appeased him by letting him sign it with his name on it, so you automatically think Donald Trump gave me a couple thousand dollars.
Speaker 1:And the fact that you covet a couple thousand dollars that's the underlying issue is that you think the government issuing you a couple thousand dollars or PPP loan or whatever it is that you claim to have received under that administration, that's not wealth. You're not going to build wealth with two thousand dollars, or you're not going to build wealth with that mentality of thinking that you were awarded two thousand dollars and somehow that makes him a better candidate than you know. The next candidate, that's. That's the whole socioeconomic underlying reasoning for why we think the way that they think. Right, that's true.
Speaker 2:You also had his surrogates going into the black community, which they didn't do with Joe Biden. They probably couldn't because of the pandemic, right. But you have people like Vivek Ramaswamy, right, going in. Like I said, I'm from Philly, so I try to keep in contact with what's going on in my hometown, gotcha. He was going into places, oh, really Philadelphia. Well, he went on the Breakfast Club, yeah, right, yeah. And then you have Byron Donald going into the barbershops in philadelphia and he was bringing people from different areas of the country that were black going in.
Speaker 2:And you're going in these communities. No one comes down there and talks to them, no one from a national level. So if you're having a conversation with them, um, they're gonna be. Well, this person knew me enough to come down here and talk to me, so they're going to think that there's some interest there. But all this comes back to education, right? So if you don't read, you don't understand what somebody stands for. And I agree with you. And here's the thing I don't think you should vote straight ticket one way or the other. You should vote your interest, mm-hmm. But the system is so lopsided that you only have a choice to vote between one of those two Right Right, and the vast majority of them are in power to enrich themselves and continue to have power. It doesn't matter what party it is.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, right. So you just got to be careful. And if you want to, in my opinion, if we want change, we're going to have to elect candidates from a grassroots perspective and then help them grow. It would be nice just to have a third party, which I don't know if and when it ever will.
Speaker 1:Well, right now, it's just about who has the most money, who can raise the most money. You're going against machines on both sides If you want to come up as an independent Right. It's a machine on both sides and almost forces you to have to join one party or the other Right, and I honestly yeah, that's actually happened with one of the local politicians here. Oh really. Yeah so no, no, I want to drop any names. Ok, I'm going to talk about it. Ok.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly a couple instances that you know, but I'm going to tell you this. I I think a lot of people may be feeling the same way. After the recent election, there was a sense of hopelessness that I think to that the people of America are good people and will do the right thing, and that all was essentially flushed down the toilet, of thinking that we can strive to be better people. And even in my inner workings, I've heard Trump supporters, now that he has won, be so bold to justify their reason for voting for him. Not in a, I voted for him, but it's in a passive, aggressive way. So I've seen, I've been in meetings with people, people who say things like well see, this is the reason why this was a topic in the election and for small businesses, this is why it's going to benefit small businesses. So it's justification, and that's hard to swallow. It really is.
Speaker 2:It's hard, it's hard to swallow, it's misinformation, information. And what happens is it? We don't have conversations with each other anymore, we don't communicate, each side just automatically reacts. It's similar to that situation, with that you had, I mean it's not a violent one, but from a social standpoint it's just. Oh, I'm just going to cut you off, there's no conversation. So there are things that the country had been telling the politicians that they weren't hearing some of the things that, okay, we'll allow people to have their space, but we don't want you to shove things down our throats.
Speaker 2:True, Right? So what usually happens is we have an over-correction. So there's been an over-correction, right? So we're going to have an overcorrection if this is not a smooth four years administration. For I don't know. I mean because if you start doing with the Constitution, it doesn't matter how many years you're in there to get rid of that. But I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just saying that's what it is.
Speaker 1:I would hope that things like the Constitution are completely untouchable and off limits. But I don't know, but you never know.
Speaker 2:I mean you have, if you have judges that can manipulate things.
Speaker 1:That's true, they just they are. How far will they go?
Speaker 2:They've already manipulated things.
Speaker 1:How far will things go? I myself and this is my this might be a huge mistake on my part, but after the election I stopped watching the news.
Speaker 2:No, no, I think.
Speaker 2:I don't know because all of it's not all of it. You, ok, you have MSNBC, you have CNN and you have Fox, yeah, right, and I can just tell you Fox is full of misinformation. Oh yeah, it's. They don't even cover negative stuff. That's going on with the Republicans, right, ok, it's all. It's all propaganda it is. It is CNN. You listen to it. They try to be unbiased. It's all about a grievance with this party, or if we don't feel like you are aligning with us culturally, there's a big problem with the grievance, and MSNBC is kind of somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they were all wrong. Yeah, they were all wrong. Right, so to the point where they don't even know where people are getting their information from anymore. Right, influencing them, right, and that's where I am. Yeah, so I don't. I don't watch the news either anymore. Right, influencing them, right, and that's that's where I am. Yeah, so I don't. I don't watch the news either anymore. Ok, right, so it's kind of interesting. Yeah, we're just we're in a place, yeah, we're. We're in limbo right now because we're trying to figure out Media cycles, influences, generations, communication and it's all this hodgepodge of confusion. It is, I definitely get what you're, it's very confusing.
Speaker 1:I saw it watching the news and again I would watch the news just to stay abreast of everything I had nothing to do with real, you know the election, right, it was just a pattern of mine to just stay aware of what's happening around me, right, and I just get. I've gotten to the point where I'll watch shows about the news or I watch, I watch Bill Maher to weekly to try to kind of catch up on what's happening, or I mean he was he was different, he was dead wrong.
Speaker 2:He's like oh, he's done yeah, yeah, I don't even wishful thinking. Wishful thinking, I don't watch him no, I completely understand but I don't get his thinking either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, to me he's the prime example of even a white man who is on the side of Democrats, is unaware of something he said the other day and he said things before. He's just completely unaware of what the truth is about black America. The truth is about why we do the things that we do and why we feel the way that we feel. Because he's coming from a perspective of privilege and when you come from that perspective, it's very difficult for you to even express empathy because you, you, your plight has to.
Speaker 1:To go to a white person To get permission or grant, get granted permission for anything that I want to achieve. That is extraordinary. If I want to. If you are a business owner, if you want to go get funding, who are you going to go talk to? If you want to learn about a specific business, who are you going to learn that from? And when they see you, they judge, they have expectations and they don't see it that way. But it is true, it is true. I remember I would. I would go running with. He didn't let on. He was a white guy I work with and we would go running every day and little things would seep out about his views. I knew he was a Trump supporter, Right, and this was before the 16 election. I knew he was a Trump supporter but he wouldn't come out and declare it, you know, openly. But he would say things like yeah, man, what do you think about all these women in here taking all these jobs? And you know.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you brought that up we're talking about I was trying to find a place to put this but there's a disconnect between gender, yeah, and there's a disconnect between generations, yeah, and we were talking about Bill Maher generations and when you were talking about Bill Maher and you were just talking about that guy, I talked to different older people, a lot of men. I ask questions. It's just a disconnect and no one knows how to put it together.
Speaker 1:But go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, you're fine. So you were there and he would ask you about the woman, right? So that's where we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was again. Fear going back to fear, right? Yeah, the fear of, and this goes way back, and that's why I keep talking about history, even when slaves were free. But even before slaves were free, when they were working there are stories about them working on ships and in the shipping industry. Hey, these Black people who are free, they're going to take all your jobs. That was what the top-down approach was and that's what the information that they provided to white men, working-class white men. It would be fast forwarded in the industrial cycle when we were making cars and when we were doing those types of things. They're going to come take your jobs. These are union jobs and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:This is my wheelhouse.
Speaker 1:It's amazing that it's the same thing. Today I'm hearing this from from someone and I never, I never, ever, consider a job to be my job or my people who look like me. My job, right it was. It's only a job that's up for grabs that we both should have an opportunity to earn, right, but they don't see it that way, no, and the thing about it is is where education and history comes in.
Speaker 2:This has been going on since the Puritans and yeah, over here. Right, right, where the class and where this class. We're the higher class. Yeah, we don't do stuff like that. Um, and it, just it, just you. You can go down the list right, okay, um, um, the africans, yeah, um, the asians, which they're? They're talking about deporting the Asians, the Irish, the Italians, it just keeps going down, ok did you know?
Speaker 1:I was reading something that I found astounding too is like they were talking about how. And now the Hispanics? Right, right, right, yeah, I agree with you. Because I agree with you because so it's almost like in the, say, 30s and 40s and 50s, immigrant immigration and those who immigrated from Irish, ireland and a lot of those countries that Italy, Right, they came over here and there was an identity that they had. They identify as Italians, as Irish. We don't see that anymore. They've assimilated and they've grown into, and it was almost as if to say that either you're going to be a white person in this country or you will essentially be nothing in this country. And I think to your point. Hispanics are also getting to the point where they're gravitating towards assimilation. They have more in common with the immigrants who are coming into this country than the people who are trying to keep them out. Yet they would rather vote for someone who was against their cousins and kinfolk, and, you know, because of the desire to assimilate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what? I spent a lot of time trying to research and figure this out. There's an underlying layer of that, but we probably need to come back and talk about that. Yeah, but it's obvious why it is to me that's taking place. Um, and it's obvious. Even with the italians and the catholics it's obvious why that's taken place. But OK, I enjoyed this. I hope you same here and we can talk about it again, absolutely All right.
Speaker 1:So everybody, listen, you can find him. Where can we find you? You can find me on Instagram Again. The website is MeaningfulWorksPublishingcom Instagram. Again, the website is meaningful works publishingcom. My book is available on amazoncom. Just put in the search to my son. With love, I have this grand plan to have a strong presence on TikTok, so I'm working on that and so you'll see me there. You'll see me on Instagram. Uh, as far as my business goes, I work to help small businesses obtain funding, uh, and so veracity business financing is is my business. You can uh search veracity business financingcom. Veracity business uh, facebook page. But uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, hopefully I'm, you'll see me everywhere All right.
Speaker 2:So there you have it. Thanks for coming in. I hope you'll come back so we can we can delve into even more, but um uh, everybody just want to say thanks for listening in and we'll catch you next time on Listen up. Thank you on Listen Up. Thank you For anyone watching this channel. I ask that you please like and subscribe for upcoming videos.
