Listen Up with Host Al Neely
Hi, I'm Al Neely. I've spent most of my life asking, " Why do people behave a certain way? Why don't people understand that most everyone wants basically the same thing? Most everyone wants their fundamental need for peace of mind, nourishment, shelter and safety."
What I have learned is that because of an unwillingness to open one's mind to see that some of the people you come in contact with may have those same desires as you do. We prejudge, isolate ourselves, and can be hesitant to interact, and sometimes we can be belligerent towards one another. This is caused by learned behavior that may have repeated itself for generations in our families.
What I hope to do with this podcast is to introduce as many people with as many various cultures, backgrounds, and practices as possible. The thought is that I can help to bring different perspectives by discussing various views from my guests that are willing to talk about their personal experiences.
Hopefully we all will learn something new. We may even learn that most of us share the same desire for our fundamental needs. We may just simply try to obtain it differently.
Sit back, learn, and enjoy!
Listen Up with Host Al Neely
The Complexity of Memory and Healing from Abuse
Megan Stover bravely joins us to recount her journey of uncovering repressed memories of sexual abuse, highlighting a painful experience from her childhood involving a church janitor. Her story uncovers the alarming realities of abuse within trusted environments, such as churches, and the complex psychological mechanisms like memory repression that victims may experience. Through Megan's narrative, we also touch on the male perspective, shedding light on the societal challenges that inhibit men from expressing vulnerability in the face of abuse by female perpetrators.
Reflecting on how upbringing and religious beliefs mold our relationships and self-worth, we unpack the trials of growing up in a strict church setting. This background often fosters toxic relational patterns and issues of self-worth. Through personal anecdotes, we explore the role of therapy, particularly EMDR, in healing from these deep-seated traumas. Our discussion delves into how familial interactions from childhood can perpetuate unresolved emotions and influence adult relationships, while also acknowledging the strength and resilience required to navigate these challenges.
Finally, we address the intricate power dynamics at play within relationships, highlighting how sex can sometimes be wielded as a tool for dominance. By candidly sharing personal stories, we aim to reassure listeners that they are not alone in their experiences and encourage open, honest conversations about these difficult topics. As we wrap up, we invite our audience to stay connected with us for more insightful discussions, with a heartfelt reminder that understanding and addressing past traumas is a crucial step toward healing.
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Okay, welcome to Listen Up Podcast. And today I'm here with Megan Stover and we're going to talk about the effects of sexual abuse and how it affects a person, their relationships and how they experience a person, their relationships and how they experience trauma over the years. So her and I both have experienced it, never really thought anything about it until we started looking into it. So when it originally started with you, I think you were in the church and, um, can you talk about that? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Um, for me, it recently came up in my therapy sessions, Okay, and before that I didn't like remember about it. So what had happened was I started therapy last year for an incident that I had been through, and as I was in my therapy sessions, it was like this particular trauma, the sexual abuse trauma, was revealed to me through a body memory and so, um, yeah, that that was my experience with sexual abuse was what I think I was. I'm not exactly sure how old I was, but somewhere around 10 or 11. Yes, and it was at the church that I attended and it was with a janitor there why does it always happen in churches?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying it always does, but it happens a lot it does, it really does, and that's sad yes and so there was a janitor at this particular church and I remember my brother and sister and I spent a lot of time hanging out with this janitor.
Speaker 1:And was he?
Speaker 2:actually a member of the church? He was. He was, yes, and employed by the church.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And he lived on the church property.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:And so I just remember spending time in this. He had like a little studio suite, like apartment-type thing that they had set up for him there, and we would go in there and like play video games and stuff like that. And I do also want to say that, like some of the stuff that we shared today is going to be very, or it could be graphic, it could be triggering for some people.
Speaker 1:So If you do, if it's something that triggers you, you should probably seek some professional help for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um. So I specifically remember one Sunday in Sunday school having blood on the back of my dress, and that particular memory has always stood out to me and I was associating it with, like just possibly starting my menstrual cycle.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But after it was revealed in therapy for me that I had experienced sexual abuse, I'm actually thinking that it was that day and that my brain, in order to protect me, had repressed that memory of the sexual abuse, because I only specifically remember the like blood on the back of my dress. And, however, in the memory that I had from my therapy session, it was very graphic to end. Have you heard of a body memory?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, so like your brain doesn't just make up a body memory, and like I could feel things, um, like I could feel the penetration in the body memory, and so you know it's a little bit In the body memory and so you know it's a little bit, it's a little bit hard to Grasp and like wrap your mind around that, right, when for so many years you had repressed that memory to protect yourself. Right For me, it was coming up In different Negative stories, memory to protect yourself. Right For me, it was coming up in different, um, negative stories and limiting beliefs that I was experiencing, which was why my therapist and I continued to dive deeper into past traumas that I've experienced and so, um it, I only remember, like that one incident.
Speaker 2:I don't remember it happening more than one time. Um, like, more times haven't come up in therapy or anything like that. It's just that one incident 13 is when we moved here to this area. So I don't, I don't know like how long that janitor was employed at that church or anything like that. Um, but that that was my experience with sexual abuse. Um, so, yeah, I don't know how far deeper you want me to go.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, that's fine, so like that, but right but right, yeah, um, you never don't know whatever happened to the person I don't okay, yeah, you left that church. You kind of left all contact huh we did what if he had a history of that type of thing, you know I would imagine so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that I think, unless people like that get serious help, then yes, they're repeat.
Speaker 1:Right, I yeah, I would think so, yeah, hmm.
Speaker 1:So what about for you. Oh, my Me, you know, I, I knew it happened, never really paid any attention to it. I think a lot of it has to do with, uh, where I came from, my background, and then the simple fact that you're a male, so, um, and it was is actually a female, so you're a male and you're supposed to. You know, in my community during that time period, you're a punk if you show any type of sensitivity towards it, but I, so I never really thought about it. The one thing that, well, this is how it happened. This was before.
Speaker 1:I guess I was like 11 or 12 years of age and, um, it was a neighbor. And um, 12 years of age and it was a neighbor and you know, we thought close family, it's always somebody close to you, right? So you thought it was a close family friend and inviting me over and I guess they were trying to get me around so they were showing me pornography, right? So they I believe that they probably had experienced experienced it themselves.
Speaker 1:Yes, From a family member, because the pornography that they were showing me they were, if I was 11, they were maybe 15 or 16 years of age, so they were showing me an older person's uh, pornography catalog. So, um, I was assuming that was just to get me aroused, Right.
Speaker 1:And then I got pushed down and taken advantage of, and you know as much as I'd like to say that. You know, I was a man at 11, 12 years old. I didn't know what I was doing. At 11, 12 years old I didn't know what I was doing. So once it took place, I think what bothered me the most is I went home and I told a family member and I think the thing that bothered me the most is the family member left Right. So over the years, that's kind of all I remember about it. Um, but I was talking with someone a few years, a year or so ago, and they were like you should probably get some, uh, some some therapy on that and probably delve a little deeper to see what happened.
Speaker 2:like you, in that situation. Was yours just the one incident? Yes, or repeated.
Speaker 1:No, it's just one. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Which doesn't diminish it at all. I was just curious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, um, I guess you never really think about women as being predators.
Speaker 2:You don't think of it as often as you do. Yeah, vice versa. Yeah, you don't think of it as often as you do. Yeah, vice versa, yeah, yeah, but um, I think with the women, I think more so. They don't stand up for the people that need to be, they don't speak up. So I think, a lot of times, the women are more so complicit in what's happening well, I think we've been.
Speaker 1:Society's been set up so if a woman does speak up about it, she's considered complicit in the whole. First thing is well, she shouldn't have worn those type of clothes, or?
Speaker 2:I see what you're saying. I'm saying more so. If a female knows that a male is um abusing someone else, a child for instance, I think that that like is more so, or I wonder if it's more so of what has wound up being like a female's role. You understand what I'm like asking, or like just kind of thinking through.
Speaker 1:Not really.
Speaker 2:It's not that big of a deal then, OK so say it again OK, are more women just like complicit when they know it's happening to somebody else, like they don't speak up, they just kind of go along with it because maybe they want to keep the family together or they don't want to upset anyone in the family.
Speaker 2:Or maybe if they said something, nothing would change. Or maybe they don't see anything upset anyone in the family. Or maybe if they said something, nothing would change. Or maybe they don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe they're just as perverted. I don't know. I don't know. I've just been thinking about that and honestly, I have the um, the Menendez brothers story in my mind, because I'm watching their um show right now.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that you know they dealt a lot with that. Their mother knew, and so I think that that's why my mind went where it went, because the mom knew and she didn't want to Well, allegedly or whatever you know, the mother knew and didn't want to disrupt the family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, knew and didn't want to disrupt the family. Yeah, so that buys into that whole control thing that we were, we I don't know if we talked about before we started rolling, but that buys into that whole control thing. Which kind of lives into everything that we've talked about up to this moment, when you're in that situation, when you know your practices, your life practices, tells you that this person should be the head of the house and you should submit. You know, if, in any kind of way that you have your own, for any type of reason, you're being duplicitous or you're being disingenuous, um, so you're, you're constantly being vulnerable.
Speaker 1:So if you're in, that situation, I feel like sometimes you probably would feel like you would have to accept whatever. The outcome is right, which is bad in itself, because I think one of the things we both know and we've both been taught through Christianity is that people are inherently evil, right yeah. So it doesn't matter how good a person is. When you get to a certain amount or number of them, some of them are going to go off the rail. You just don't know which ones. It's going to be right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I can see where that would take place. Yeah, so if you're in a home where there's no way out, what else can you do?
Speaker 2:Right, Well, for one, I think. Are you talking about from, like the female standpoint, or from the victim?
Speaker 1:Oh, from the female standpoint.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which, the victim, you feel powerless as well, right.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I think that's what I was thinking as well, and, and even more so, at a young, I think, depending on your age, you might be able to. Or I'm wondering if, depending on your age, you might feel like because of, like, your maturity level, maybe yeah. That you can say something to somebody, cause I'm thinking of like a young child there.
Speaker 1:Well, they're innocent, so they don't know what's right or wrong. So if they're telling you, they're telling you because they think that it's something that you need to know, yeah, yeah. But when it gets suppressed, you know, oh, and nothing's taking place. Then that's when it goes off the rail, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So moving forward, how do you think that's? Do you never thought it affected anything in your life? That's a you never thought it affected anything in your life, or does it now that you learned about it? Do you see um things that happened or taking place because of it in your relationships, or anything?
Speaker 2:that's great yeah, that's a great question. So I think for me, because I had grown up in the church and I had been like it was deeply ingrained in me how to behave Right, so there was no, you just did it this way, there's no, you know, experience outside of that, and what I mean by that is because the way of living was so ingrained in me. It wasn't until after I went through my separation and divorce, when I started experiencing life like outside of such a rigid set of rules and guidelines, that these situations were coming up for me and opportunities for like these negative stories. And what I mean by that is, for instance, um, you know, they talk these days in dating and within relationships and stuff like that about knowing your worth Right, and when you know your worth, you don't stay in situations that are unhealthy or toxic. For the 20 years that I was married, I wasn't necessarily that didn't necessarily affect me, because I just knew that I was supposed to live life by the rules.
Speaker 2:Right, but as I began dating and was dealing with all of that new newness is when, like, I didn't know my worth and so, yes, it caused me to stay in situations that were toxic. Um, and when that happened is when I found myself in like more abuse.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and that was physical, not sexual. So but you know what's interesting, like we talk about, since we're talking about sexual abuse, there are times within my, in my marriage, that I didn't, and you know, there could be many people like this these days. I'm really not sure, maybe this resonates with somebody or not, but there are many times that, like I didn't want to have sex or I was just pressured into it by my ex-husband because, like as a Christian and to be like the biblical wife, correct, and yeah, so I do think that it has played out in other ways.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't always enjoyable.
Speaker 2:No, and there you know, when you're married for 20 years I mean you know, even when you're in a relationship with somebody for one year you have situations that you're working through for 20 years. You have some high highs and there's possible for some little lows and times when you know the marriage isn't as like exciting, and then you have rough patches and things like that. I would say that in some of our rough patches during those times when, like I did not want to have sex, it was it caused me to resent, it caused me to resent my ex-husband. And in my therapy sessions there have been some memories that I've had to reprocess, because I do EMDR and we've talked about that some and it's where you go in and for anybody that's like just listening maybe to this one episode or whatever.
Speaker 2:But EMDR is where you go in and you think about the particular memory that has a negative cognition associated with it. One could be, um, I'm not good enough, and so your I'm not good enough can be tied to a negative memory. And for me, some of those were the times when, when my ex-husband and I were being intimate, I wasn't wanting to, and so in the sessions you you release whatever emotions you have come up and that's how you move forward through EMDR therapy. Yes, you, it's called reprocessing your memories, and so, um then, after that, you know the goal and for me it's been very successful, like you don't have any more negative emotions associated with that memory. Um, but, yeah, there was it. It definitely has showed up in other areas of my life yeah how about for you?
Speaker 1:um, I don't know. I probably need to talk to someone yeah, that's right yeah because I am not sure, um. The first thing I'll definitely say is I love women. I mean, I actually think women are the most amazing, just creatures that God's ever created. I just don't think once you get a beautiful, ambitious, smart, um that's full of life, I I don't. I think everything else can flow through that particular person. So I, um, and I love being around women like that. So, um, it's not affected that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, um, I'm fairly confident. So then, why do you?
Speaker 2:okay. So then let me ask you this what? What makes you think that, if you don't have any kind of negative thought process or pattern that you're noticing, what makes you think that you need?
Speaker 1:or possibly should use, but but so I don't know. Yeah Right, but there's things about me. I'm very, once I get, I'm very task focused. I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but when I get my eyes set on a goal, I'm just, I'm just getting out of the way. Or if you don't get out of the way, I'm just going to keep going, no matter what. And sometimes I'm a little less sensitive. So I don't know if any of this has anything to do with anything, but it may not. But you know, the fact that the family may were laughing, it might have more of an effect than anything.
Speaker 1:You know, that's a valid point yeah.
Speaker 2:Because when you mentioned it and you tried to go to somebody that you thought you could talk to, they blew you off with a laugh. Did you feel shame, then Do you remember if you felt like shame or do you remember if you felt anything?
Speaker 1:I was 11 years old, I didn't know what I was to feel, Right. That's why I went to someone that's you know was supposed to have been my protector. Do you remember?
Speaker 2:what you did after you talked to her, like when you left that conversation, like did you, do you remember if you went to your room or did you?
Speaker 1:cry. I'm pretty sure I probably went to my room, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I probably started thinking about sexual activity. A lot younger though. Yeah, you probably should have.
Speaker 2:And you know what's interesting about that. I'm glad you mentioned that, because one thing that I've been learning more about, and like I even experienced this myself, is there can be some times when you're being abused sexually, that you are aroused or you enjoy it, and that actually can. Because let's take my, let's take my instance. For me, in my therapy session, as I was reprocessing the memory, I remember getting like aroused and actually liking it, and I mentioned that to my therapist in the middle of the reprocessing, because she'll, as you're reprocessing the memory, she'll like pause you for a minute, bring you out and say like what's coming up, and so then you'll share. And then I'm sorry. Well, for me and I'm just going to say this, for me it was as I was sitting there, um, I remember telling her like my vagina is tingling and like that had not happened to me before in one of my therapy sessions, so I didn't know what that meant.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And um, and so as we continued talking, you know there was a part for me that, like actually enjoyed it, and so that, I think, is what I'm trying to say is that and then there can be a level of shame around that, because there can be times where you may get aroused and part of it you do enjoy, and it could be the part of your brain that doesn't realize that this is not right or that somebody should not be doing this to you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, um, and, and so I think that that's a. I'm saying all that to say that, if, if anybody has experienced that, don't let the shame of that like continue playing another negative story in your in your brain. And you know everybody has different ways that they heal and process their past.
Speaker 1:Right. And so yeah, Now that we mentioned it, I probably, um, I was probably a little too pursuant at an earlier, at a younger age. Um, it was never a control thing for me, I think you know some activities or the way you do things like. I think rape is. That's a control issue. I don't have any issues with anything like that, but I'm probably a lot younger we're pursuing, so I'm assuming that maybe I learned that behavior from that incident and then I was trying to portray or Well, maybe you were just experiencing you were just experiencing life, maybe it was normal.
Speaker 2:I mean, that particular experience, like possibly did wake something up in you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and then you explored.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, interesting Wow.
Speaker 2:Do you have any shame or maybe regret around that? No, oh good.
Speaker 1:And that's probably pretty strange. Huh, I don't have any.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. This is no. This is judgment-free time.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:No, cool yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, I think this has been interesting.
Speaker 2:It has. Yeah, and I'm trying to think if there's anything else that like, else that like I just think it's. I think to kind of like think about both of our situations. You know yours, you remembered mine, I did not until a certain point in time and so I think for your listeners, like it's important to know that sometimes there are things that happen to us in life that do affect us, that maybe we don't remember. And if you, whether you remember it or not, like if it's showing up in areas getting help is important, and then, like if you do remember it, If you do remember it and it's affecting you, like definitely reach out and get help Right, because you don't know which direction it's going to go in, right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You don't know how much willpower control you have. Right, right, good Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, any last thoughts?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. Yeah, well, any last thoughts? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think this is one I should have learned, but I think this one is, and that's okay. Yeah, chockfull of information here.
Speaker 2:Yep, I would say Hmm, I was going to say something like if one person doesn't listen to you, go to somebody else, but then, at the same time, your listeners are probably not 11.
Speaker 1:So, like I don't know, yeah, so yeah, if any of you guys out there experiencing one person doesn't listen to you go to somebody else.
Speaker 2:I mean, that brings up another thing. So I did go to my mom and tell her about my experience.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh.
Speaker 1:I didn't do that, but my mom would have shot the whole block up.
Speaker 2:We're talking about like in the last year and she was she?
Speaker 1:No, she wouldn't. She's a nice lady, no.
Speaker 2:We're talking about, like in the last year. She has a hard time believing me and she's like, if your dad knew he would have done this, he would have shot him. And I'm just like, well, I can't make this up. It is what it is Really. So not to say that I can't make this up?
Speaker 1:I'm not, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:Oh, really Mm-hmm, so that to say that not everybody.
Speaker 1:You told your mom.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And she said she didn't know.
Speaker 2:She's saying she doesn't know anything about it. Yeah, and then, of course, my dad is not in a place where she says your dad would have definitely done something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I could see that, because dads are like that. Yeah, yeah, dads and daughters, yeah, all right. There's a guy in Canoes now that I think he shot someone who was in the car, his 14-year-old daughter. He was like a 65-year-old man that had a history of this stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you understand why yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because once this happens, this is not something that you go okay, we can just move on. You know the whole situation is done and so we can forget it. No, this is lasting effects, right, right, and this is trauma and it stays there.
Speaker 2:Right, and I hope that by you sharing today and being from a man's perspective, I just hope that that you know, gives other men just to, for them to know that they're not alone if it happened to them. Yeah, and yeah, I do think that it. It is becoming more, more normal maybe to talk about yes.
Speaker 1:It's more normal to talk about. But I'm pretty sure it's happened all the time, yeah Right, but I would imagine the one that probably if you were taken advantage of by another man, a male, another older male.
Speaker 1:That would create a lot of issues. I would imagine that would create a lot of issues. I would imagine so. And you know it's in the manosphere. You know there's a lot of emphasis is put on power and control, and sex is one of the ways that you establish dominance and power and control. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, unfortunately, but that's where we are. Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, so okay. That concludes today's episode. Yeah, yeah, okay, All right, so okay. That concludes today's episode. Listen up. Thank you, remember, share, like, follow and definitely subscribe. All right, we'll see you next time. Listen up. Thanks For anyone watching this channel. I ask that you please like and subscribe for upcoming videos.
