Listen Up with Host Al Neely
Hi, I'm Al Neely. I've spent most of my life asking, " Why do people behave a certain way? Why don't people understand that most everyone wants basically the same thing? Most everyone wants their fundamental need for peace of mind, nourishment, shelter and safety."
What I have learned is that because of an unwillingness to open one's mind to see that some of the people you come in contact with may have those same desires as you do. We prejudge, isolate ourselves, and can be hesitant to interact, and sometimes we can be belligerent towards one another. This is caused by learned behavior that may have repeated itself for generations in our families.
What I hope to do with this podcast is to introduce as many people with as many various cultures, backgrounds, and practices as possible. The thought is that I can help to bring different perspectives by discussing various views from my guests that are willing to talk about their personal experiences.
Hopefully we all will learn something new. We may even learn that most of us share the same desire for our fundamental needs. We may just simply try to obtain it differently.
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Listen Up with Host Al Neely
Carl Poole on Community Power: Navigating Politics, Education, and Housing in Norfolk
The episode provides a deep dive into the critical transformations occurring in Virginia's local elections and their impact on communities. We discuss the role of voter turnout, historical changes in electoral laws, the dynamics of local governance, the implications of school funding disparities, and the challenges of affordable housing in Norfolk while highlighting the urgent need for community engagement and advocacy.
• Examining voter dissatisfaction and apathy towards local elections
• Analyzing the shift in local election timing for increased voter turnout
• Discussing the impact of new candidates filling local council seats
• Exploring inequalities in schools’ funding tied to socio-economic status
• Addressing the housing crisis and its effects in Norfolk
• Confronting environmental issues related to industrial practices
• Looking ahead to upcoming gubernatorial elections and their implications
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Hello everyone. I'm Al Neely. I'd like to welcome you to Listen Up Podcast. Today we have Carl Poole. Carl is with the New Virginia Majority Nonprofit they work with in the community, local community here in the southeastern part of Virginia, locally and statewide with campaigns Say hello to everyone. How's it going? Hello, All right. So met Carlin, got to talking to him just before the elections. We were talking about a lot of the local politics, people, campaigns and the energy behind it, so it would be interesting to have you come in and talk with us about this past election. So you were born in Virginia, Norfolk, Virginia, Is that correct?
Speaker 1:Well, my family has been in Norfolk since about the 50s. My mom bounced all over everywhere, but she always brought us back home because that's where her family is. She's the third youngest of seven, so I got lots of aunts and uncles in and around here, so this is home. Okay, so there's a good foundation.
Speaker 2:So you've seen a lot growing up. And then you being active in the organization that you're in, you've seen a lot of development around here the organization that you're in. You've seen a lot of development around here. So what is your experience from the past election cycle in the area? What kind of things were you seeing during the election time?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, that whole get out the vote puts a lot of happy talk out and I think, between leading into election folks who might vote more liberally, being so elated that they had a candidate that could actually win, and, coming from that place where they had, looking at Joe Biden as a candidate, didn't think it was going to win, nobody put a whole lot of thought into truly what a Trump victory would lead to, what it would look like. What are the pieces and parts? They just heard the scary talk Trump's going to do this, he's going to tear this down, he's going to and he may do some of the things that they were talking about. But I don't think people wanted to put that thought in their head too deeply because they're like, oh, kamala's going to win, she's going to win, and they were just hyped up to kind of, I think, mask anxieties.
Speaker 1:Gotcha yeah up to kind of, I think, mask anxieties. Gotcha, yeah Me, I'm kind of hedging. I was just kind of hedging my bets, Like if he wins, this is how I need to respond, if he doesn't win, this is how I need to respond. And I know everybody has an election night story. 2016 told me to stop watching the results the night of the election, wake up the next morning, turn everything off that night, go to work, do your usual and then digest it. So that's how I woke up. The next morning was like yeah, so what were?
Speaker 2:your feelings, did you? Did you actually think that from a we're going to ask you one more question about the national and then we'll come back down to local stuff here. Excuse me, did you, did you think that she was actually going to, kamala was going to win, or did you think Trump was going to win?
Speaker 1:Well, I kind of felt it was like a jump ball, depending on whose base showed up the hardest, that's who's going to win. I honestly went in thinking you know I don't have a clear, decisive thought of who's going to win this election, but even even as working as an organizer, I don't really see a POTUS as a savior. To be elect A president is a target. It's a person we need to either see that, get the most aligned person in that office or be able to change their alignment when it comes to the interest of people in this country. So, for certain, trump is a harder target to deal with than a Kamala Harris.
Speaker 1:But I kind of thought it as it's a jump ball. There's too much in the air, there's too much balance, or too even as much as the happy talk had about Kamala Harris, she's going to win. Well, since there was so much happy talk about her winning, I didn't want to buy into that. I didn't want to think, okay, there's no point, let's just wait and see. At least we'll know by the next morning where things are headed, if it's not everything counted up, or have a good, firm ideal of how bad things are going to get.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. Yeah, I think what gets lost everybody. There's a whole lot of energy and a whole lot of effort put out when you're having a national election, but the elections that really make a difference in people's lives on a day-to-day basis are the ones that are in your community, right, the local ones, yeah, elections, and then your statewide elections, and you don't usually have that type of energy for those elections. But that's pretty much where you are, where you stand right, right.
Speaker 1:That's where my work is centered at.
Speaker 2:So what were you saying? Because I know you're in Norfolk section of the Virginia and what were you guys doing? Because you actually had a ground campaign. You were part of the ground campaign in Norfolk, right.
Speaker 1:Right New Virginia majority has been for first few years. When it comes to local endorsement, like statewide candidates, like you're running for House of Delegates or State Senate, is something we've been doing, endorsements and support for for years. I mean we knock on a million doors a year literally when it comes to state elections, when it comes to gubernatorial elections too. Now, local elections. I know we've been talking to folks in different parts of the state to include Norfolk, about local elections and we've endorsed two candidates this year on the local and in Norfolk. It's because the state changed the law on how, when they hold local elections it used to be. You know, localities can set up their elections when they want to. Norfolk aligned them in the past with fiscal year. So like you get an election in June which nobody's going to go to. So if you're a city councilman or if you're a school board person, get your people to come out in that June election and you'll win versus everybody else is probably not going to vote in June. And it gave incumbency a lot of power because incumbents could do that year after year after year and keep their positions.
Speaker 1:This year, since the law changed that every state local election has to happen at the same time as the general election in November and happening in line with a presidential year. Those council, those incumbents, people aren't enough. So the first thing we saw on the local level was for the two city council seats, the incumbents chose not to run and they got their reasons. But I think a core element that went into it was you have the sheer volume of voters who have probably never voted for a city council person before. Now they have to introduce themselves to this whole volume of people that had never voted for them at all. I think at some level that both those city council people saw the writing on the walls like this is a harder way to win. They chose not to run.
Speaker 2:So what took place?
Speaker 1:You had no incumbent and two city council seats that were up this time around and you had brand new folks going into those seats.
Speaker 2:So OK, wow, interesting Um the. Let's talk about how, at one point in time, we were talking about um schools and we were talking about communities and school board members and things like that. Assuming those candidates that you were, just they were running. They're now. Were they running for city council? Was it new school board people as well?
Speaker 1:Yes, norfolk does its elections because they've got their wards and super wards. So we have every two years you know it's kind of staggered you have wards one through five running election and then the next two years you'll have a mayoral race and then you'll have Super Wards six and seven. Both let's see the Super Ward six school board member, another incumbent chose not to run. You have, I think, two other people that were running for her seat For Super Ward seven. The current super ward seven school board member chose to run for city council. Didn't run to get a seat.
Speaker 1:Also, you had a special election going on with another school board member, um, that resigned out of ward five. So you have three brand new school board members now on that board, which may change how that board works. We're actually gonna have to take a um, we're actually taking a really close look change how that board works. We're actually going to have to take a really close look at how that's going to work. But essentially you've got half a board that's brand new. I'm trying to think. I don't think any of them have served on a board before. Some of them are educators, whether it's on a college level or primary school level. Some have worked in NPS or currently work in NPS, but you've got essentially half a brand new board, half that board's never done this job before.
Speaker 2:How long a term period do they serve?
Speaker 1:Four years. They'll serve for four years, so the ones that get elected this time won't be up for election until 2028.
Speaker 2:Interesting All right, interesting, all right. So one of the conversations we were having we were talking about how the city, you can determine from schools in a particular area that are populated or less populated, funded, highly funded or less funded, which ones are coming towards their end and when you see that. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is when you see something like that taking place. Over the last several years that you've been doing this, have you seen things like that take place within?
Speaker 1:the city. Well, I mean first you got to understand Norfolk is still very much a segregated city. A what A segregated city? What do you mean by that? You drive, say, five minutes, and you'll see a neighborhood that is 80, 90% black. You drive another, say, five minutes, and you'll see a neighborhood that is 80% 90% Black. You drive another 10 minutes down the road and it's like the whole script has been flipped. That neighborhood is maybe 15% 20% Black.
Speaker 1:The schools in those neighborhoods are a reflection of the communities in those neighborhoods, I mean, and that's all over the city. If you look at the schools that are accredited and off again, I'm not going to get into how accreditation works on a state level just because that system is changing and that's. You know it doesn't necessarily reflect how an individual student will do, it's just how the overall school is doing. You go into the areas that are more affluent, more white, um, you're going to find um, more homeowners. You're going to find more accredited schools. In fact, you're going to find very few schools in those areas that aren't accredited. You go into areas that are more black, more lower income or working class You're going to find the opposite. You're going to be hard pressed to find a school that's fully accredited it. You're going to be hard-pressed to find a school that's fully accredited.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that it means the whole school's failing because, like I said, the state does that a certain way. But you know what that school is doing just based on who's living in that area and that's real obvious in Norfolk. I mean, it's not and I wouldn't say that it's no teacher's fault, it's no principal's fault, it's no administrator's fault. We're talking about decades of things happening in and around Norfolk a shifting population and where people live. That's affecting this Because it changes who goes to school changes how many students are attending, where the money is going. It does a lot, but that's a reality. You live in a segregated city. If you live in Norfolk, and how that city is broken down by where you live is affecting your school and that's no one person's fault and that's no one generation of people's fault.
Speaker 2:So how is the funding delved out? I'm sorry this kind of hit me here. I got you How's the funding delved out for particular areas?
Speaker 1:Well, that's up to the school board and superintendent to determine. On the budget Now, their overall money. A good chunk of that money is coming from the city. Another large chunk of that money is coming from the state. And then you have federal monies that either are designated in general or through certain particular laws or program. You know, depending on what those monies are designated to do on a federal level. But the core rule when it comes to school funding is the more attendance you have, the more students you got in your school, the more money you get Now in Norfolk. Norfolk's had a shrinking population since, I'm guessing, 1970, shrinking population since, I'm guessing, 1970, since my mom started high school in 1970. And when she started high school that was one of the first years that Norfolk integrated all its schools. That was court ordered. Norfolk's population started shrinking then and by the end of that decade had lost about 40,000, 45,000 people. Virginia Beach got a good chunk of those people were now the most populous city and area and Norfolk's population has been more or less shrinking ever since.
Speaker 2:Why did you think it started shrinking?
Speaker 1:Well, essentially white folks left. Oh really, I mean, I don't know any other, plainer way to put it. Norfolk had a population of a little over 300,000 in 1970, had a population somewhere around 265,000 in 1980. That's the year I started going to school in Norfolk. By the time we get to 2000, norfolk had a population that was about 30,000 people less and is now kind of floating and don't get me quoted exactly on the numbers somewhere around, I think, 237,000, 238,000. It's not shrinking as fast as it once was early on, but it's still less.
Speaker 1:And so over time we have a less a number of students attending awful public schools. They get less money, less money, and the result of that, you know, amongst other things, is that you've got a lot of older schools that haven't been replaced. That with less students in the population, less money to do it, with less resource programs. Teachers pay is not behind every school in the area, but if you're trying to compete with Chesapeake and Virginia Beach to get the most qualified teachers and you can go elsewhere to get paid more money, well then you can do that and that doesn't just apply to teachers, that's paraprofessionals, that's assistants, that's bus drivers If you can take your CDL and go make more money at a trucking company, then you can drive in a bus and you don't get the hassle of having all those kids to deal with.
Speaker 1:you're going to do that and as you have less money, you have to figure out how to deal that out. Now I'm not going to say Norfolk has always done the best job at that or done the greatest job at that. I just know that the overall effect is you have a situation now where it's not just like every other school, where every school is fighting for funding. Every school is fighting to keep their facilities going Because of that shrinking population.
Speaker 1:That's a unique problem for Norfolk. It's not the same in Virginia Beach. It's not the same in Virginia Beach. It's not the same in Virginia Beach. It's not the same in Virginia Beach. It's not the same in Virginia Beach. It's not the same in Virginia Beach. It's not the same in Virginia. Money it's a unique thing. At least that piece is a unique thing for Norfolk and, like I said, it's no one generation of leaders in charge of that school system has had that work that way. But I think Norfolk's at a point now where at least Norfolk Public Schools is at a point now where some very hard choices got to get made and nobody's going to be happy. I mean nobody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it looks like there's been an influx of development. I'm seeing a lot of new multifamily dwellings apartments. Is it trying to, you know, is it something that's trying to?
Speaker 1:Well, if we're talking housing in Norfolk, here's the thing Norfolk probably has the oldest housing stock in the area Really, yeah, older than Portsmouth, older than Portsmouth. Norfolk probably has the largest share of folks who are lower income or in affordable housing in the area because of that. Now, like I said, all folks' population ain't growing. I mean you can have city leaders talk about where the number's at. It's not growing. If you look at local population from 20 years ago, it's probably more than it is now. If you look at 20 years before that, it is definitely more than it is now. You look at 20 years before that, it's probably more than it is now. If you look at 20 years before that, it is definitely more than it is now. You look at 20 years before, that is definitely more than you use now. It is not growing, it's going down.
Speaker 1:And now there are, you know, projections that more there's an influx of norfolk folks are going to be coming into the city over the next few decades. But if you look at the past few decades, where do you see that now, with the higher concentration of older housing, with the higher concentration of folks in need of affordable housing and how tight the market is. Norfolk probably has as much. When it comes to most stratas of income, just enough housing available for every strata except for the lower strata, like if you make, say, $30,000, $35,000 or less, or if you yeah, and the problem is there is that's where they're short, the folks who can least afford housing, that's where the deficit is and that's a good chunk of Norfolk residents that are there.
Speaker 2:So where do they go, Kyle?
Speaker 1:Well, this whole area has been playing shuffle game for poor people for decades. That's the way it's gone. I mean, like I said, I finished my high school in Virginia Beach. Where I went to high school was Bayside High School. If you look at the folks that went to Bayside High School, these were families. A lot of them were families that came from North Fork, from public housing that hadport News in Hampton, shifting back and forth and as much as people will say, oh yeah, poor people need a place to live.
Speaker 1:Nobody wants to be the one that has poor people living in their neighborhood. I mean, especially if you're in a neighborhood with a lot of homeowners, people get real nimbly. That not in my backyard mentality, and Norfolk it gets more specific than that. It's not necessarily. We don't just want you know, and no one says poor people, nobody says black people. We don't want your neighborhood poor people, we don't want your neighborhood.
Speaker 1:They'll say we don't want crime, they'll talk about it in general. We don't want an element in our neighborhood because you're building housing for poor people in there and in some parts of Norfolk because, like I said, norfolk is really segregated when you have certain parts of Norfolk where almost all of the lower income housing is concentrated. They don't want more. So it's a matter of them saying, not only in my neighborhood Well, if you can build lower income housing, that's fine, you can build affordable housing, that's fine. Why don't you put it in West Ocean View? Why don't you put it in East Beach? Why don't you put it somewhere else, but say Huntersville or Park Place or something like that?
Speaker 2:Do you happen to know the percentage of people that make less than $35,000 that are actually in Norfolk? The population, yeah.
Speaker 1:Not off the top of my head. Okay, I want to say it's more than well. It's about a third. If I can't get the exact number, it's about a third. If you're looking at number of renters in Norfolk, that's about 56%, 57%. So there's more renters in Norfolk than there are homeowners, which is another unique thing that's about Norfolk. Portsmouth might do the same thing, but I'm thinking that the ratio between those two cities to every other city is different. Like Virginia, beach definitely does not have more renters than it has homeowners, chesapeake definitely doesn't have more renters than it does homeowners. Norfolk has almost always had, in the last several decades had more renters than it had homeowners.
Speaker 2:Does that have anything to do with the transient population that comes from the military, or you just think it's just?
Speaker 1:Well, no, that's, that's just us. The military population is always going to be, you know, depending on where they're going, where they're being sent, that's always going to shift. But no, it's been more renters and homeowners, probably since folks started leaving in the 70s, for instance, like a lot of neighborhoods in Norfolk. When folks are living during that time they may not have sold the property that they had before. They may have bought new property somewhere else Virginia Beach or Chesapeake and rented out the old one and that shifted through hands. Maybe people bought that, maybe other rental companies have bought that.
Speaker 1:There's a fair amount of single-family housing that's rented out by rental companies, that's either managed by them or owned by them, and awful right now, and that's. There's a different name for some of that. They call it NOAA. Naturally occurring affordable housing, the affordable housing that's there, that, since, because there's not a lot of investment being put into it, that the price of it, that the cost of it stays low for it, to me it's like all right, let's divest in a neighborhood, let's divest in housing as neighborhood, and because we're not putting a lot of money into it, if we're going to rent it out, it's not going to cost people a lot. Now there's a benefit to that, because Norfolk has a lot of that, but the other downside to that is it's poor people living in conditions that may vary between kind of good to not good at all, that may vary between kind of good to not good at all, and divest in an area for that long, then the only time the thing happened that's when gentrification kicks in, where it's like all right, this whole neighborhood has got run down, let's buy as much as we get, get the property value up, redevelop the whole thing. Like there are whole neighborhoods right now looking at that in awful as we speak. Wow, so I mean, I mean. I mean, granted, there are some good things that may come out of it. But when you see so much of supposed good things coming out of stuff that messes up with housing, when you want to say, like an industrial area right, there's a couple of them.
Speaker 1:Globe Iron Steel comes to mind Redeveloped that area where Globe Iron Steel used to be at, turned that into neighborhood, turned it into local business. That sounds like a good thing to do, because that land has been relatively unused for years and untouchable to residents for years. So if you redevelop that, you can get new homeowners there. Now the surrounding area in and around Globe Iron Steel are a lot of Black homeowners, a lot of Black older homeowners or a lot of low-income renters. It's an area that's been divested from for decades, so now let's clean up Globe Iron and Steel. Now all their property values go up, so if your grandma lives over there, she's going to worry about higher property value and higher taxes to pay.
Speaker 1:If you rent on that area, does your rent go up? Does the person that you rent from suddenly say well, I'm going to sell this property and someone else is going to develop it. You got to move somewhere else. And are you being displaced, while newer, more expensive homes being put in this area and it's like look at the good thing that's happening? Now you have another group of folks. They have to move somewhere else, especially a time when the folks who can least afford housing don't have it available.
Speaker 2:Enough Isn don't have it available in Norfolk, isn't that right near the college, though?
Speaker 1:I mean, isn't it?
Speaker 2:You have a lot of students in that area.
Speaker 1:Well, probably about a mile or so away. Yeah, you got Norfolk State right by. You have a few elementary schools. You got Booker T Washington High School nearby, so yeah, Okay, gotcha All right.
Speaker 2:So you do have students living in there. So what have you seen? Development around those neighborhoods? Around Norfolk State yeah there's been development down there and then Old Dominion.
Speaker 1:Old Dominion is a whole different ballgame but yeah, there's been development around Old Dominion, around Old Dominion. They have a different thing happening over there About I want to say eight, nine, almost 10 years ago Old Dominion made a conscious choice to say we're not going to really build out a whole lot more student housing. We're going to rely on the existing housing around here to house students. Like, if there are companies that are going to buy up that housing and rent to students, we're going to rely on that kind of neighborhood housing to fill in the gap for the student housing we want to have to increase the number of students we have. There are neighborhoods in and around Old Dominion that used to be local residents, renters, people in Norfolk, that are now primarily students.
Speaker 1:Renting in those neighborhoods I mean, like the areas most adjacent to the college are just, it is almost all entirely students. It is almost all entirely students. There are newer developments in and around Old Dominion that are marketed as affordable and marketed as newer apartment housing that are really only marketed to students and get sold by the room and there are companies that are looking at like individual houses that say like three or four-bedroom houses that a know a good-sized family could use that are renting those houses out by the room. So if you have, let's say you've got a three-bedroom and it costs let's say $1,700, $1,800 to rent.
Speaker 1:Now you're going to rent that three-bedroom by the room and so instead of that $1,700 to $1,800 to rent, maybe you make it $800 a room as an example. So a company is going to make more money selling by the room. So let's say you want a two-bedroom, it's you and your wife. I want to rent a two-bedroom from this company like that. Well, you can rent both rooms Nowhere else in the area, does that?
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nowhere else in the area does that and the price of that is ridiculous. So if you're looking for housing and you're not going to Old Dominion, it's not mommy and daddy paying for housing or your college loans or your pale grant or whatever else you got to pay for your college and pay for your housing for college that's going into there. If you're just average working Joe that wants a place to rent, you're not probably going to those companies to rent by the room because it's not affordable and it's not worth it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And you're going to rent somewhere else. So as companies buy up places, people have left out these areas the last, say, 10 years and now there's whole chunk neighborhoods that are mostly students. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but neighborhoods that are mostly students I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But when Norfolk is in a shortage of housing for everybody, that's not, you know, that's the solution for Old Dominion and getting more students for housing for students, that's not a solution for the rest of the city. And meanwhile you've got I mentioned Lambert's Point student with the coal dust issue.
Speaker 1:Old Dominion is a school that is literally was built in and it's been gobbling up lambert's point since the 60s and is still doing it like I'd say that a whole core part of old dominion's campus, that was the lambert's point neighborhood at one point okay, gone, and it's still kind of gobbling up that neighbor because instead of now building new facility, more students are moving into the area the same way. So it's that and understand that. It's working class neighborhoods, it's less white neighborhoods. You don't really find that happening north of Old Dominion as much as you see south of Old Dominion.
Speaker 1:That's Lodgemont, that's high-end property, that's more money, more affluence. They're not going into that neighborhood. They can't afford to go in the neighborhood to buy out for these companies. But Lambert's point, more working class yeah, they've been doing that for years so, and Norfolk State doesn't really do that as well. But Norfolk State's got less room to run in that regard, at least for right now. There used to be Liberty Park and a few other lower-income and public housing communities, not even half a mile away from Norfolk State, that are gone. They're gone. They've been redeveloped for more than a decade two decades.
Speaker 2:I want to talk about Lambert's point. One of the things you were saying was the coal dust. Have they been cleaning up the area?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Dolfo Southern claims and they can claim that that there's no adverse effect from any kind of coal dust going to neighborhoods because the amount of coal dust that's in the air that goes into the area isn't anything that should harm anybody. And they get that number and that that that analysis from readings of particular readings on their property directly Like see, there's nothing going on because you know we were getting no high readings on our property.
Speaker 2:There's never this is Norfolk Southern railroad Right that had the chemical spill in Ohio.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Same. Yeah, about a year and a half, two years ago, right Right, same company, same company, right and then the regulations were they were cut back or terminated during the Trump administration, if I remember correctly, right.
Speaker 1:Well, the part that governs the stuff that Lambert's Point is doing, or at least, is the Clean Air Act. Clean Air Act has been since the 60s.
Speaker 1:Okay, Now the Clean Air Act applies to equipment and facilities that have had major changes or upgrades since then. Now if you have equipment that was installed or put into place in your facility that predates the Clean Air Act, you're grandfathered in facility that predates the Clean Air Act. You're grandfathered in. The coal dumper at Lambert's point that Norfolk Southern runs is one of those pieces of equipment. So as long as it'll make any major changes to it, they don't have to do anything. That complies with the Clean Air Act. So it's because it predates, it's grandfathered. So the thing is they don't change their coal dumper and then when they take readings on their property it's like oh, it's not enough to produce any problems. We don't know what anyone's talking about.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile folks have been. I'm going to read the studies of people that live in that area, where we find I'm glad you brought. Lambert's health, oh you know about this.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you brought that up. Okay, no-transcript. They have been going to not only talking to residents about it but trying to get like built-in on-ground air sampling monitors put in and around Lambert's Point and for, I guess, the last three years hopefully, cross your fingers they're finally going to get them installed sometime at the first half of next year so they can do a two-year study to actually see what's in the air around the neighborhood. So it's not a matter of Norfolk Southern on their property taking readings. They'll be taking readings in and around Lambert's Point so they definitively see what's in the air. That's the goal.
Speaker 2:Property values in that area.
Speaker 1:Well, it depends on, I mean it. Really that's something that would depend on what they find. If they find nothing conclusive, it won't affect any property values. What are you talking about now? Property values are up everywhere. Gotcha Demand when you have a Right right. But I mean especially with Lambert's point because, like I said, their neighbor that's been kind of slowly gobbling them up.
Speaker 1:Old Dominion, you have all these students living in this area, you have their dormitories in that area, you have their practice fields. Probably the closest thing to that coal dumper in that whole area is probably Old Dominion's practice fields, for I think football, soccer, I think baseball, yeah, is the closest thing to that yard and that dumper, even almost closer than the Lambert's Point neighborhood. They don't want anyone to think about anyone's kid going there and having affected by any coal dust stuff. So that's imagine you're a parent and you've had your kid, you know maybe have asthma problems and you know it's active when they go to school, but they're better during the summer. And then let's say, something came up where they found like articulate readings that were dangerous.
Speaker 1:Now you have a source, now you have somebody to blame and now Old Dominion has a problem because what did they do about it? They've been there, knowing that the coal dumpers have been there for years. What have they been doing about it? You've been asking folks to move into the neighborhood closer to that coal dumper. In the neighborhood that people have been saying for decades that this thing affects their health. They don't. I mean, when it comes to that sort of thing, older man doesn't want anything to go wrong with that study, anymore than Lambert's, anymore than Norfolk Southern does. But now we can finally, once they have those monitors in place, definitively see what the culprit is. Not that people in the neighborhood don't know what the culprit is, they just don't think anything's going to happen. Even if they do find out, something definitively happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they're just living their lives. So I right.
Speaker 1:And they don't. They don't trust that.
Speaker 2:Right, well, I mean, I'm over there when I'm over there. I've never, ever thought about it until we started having this conversation, and I grew up in a place where you had a lot of industry, so you had lead poisoning, and then you had red line areas. So I knew all this stuff was in the back of my head but never really thought about it when I'm over there. But now you bring it up, I see it as clear as day.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, when you have an area, that one, the people have been able to do anything about it for ages and ages and ages and don't think they can do anything about it, what else is left for them to do to live their lives? And that's the response that a Norfolk Southern and anybody else wants to have. Stop complaining, don't worry about it, it's not that bad, this is the normal. Or just have no conversation about it whatsoever. I mean Norfolk Southern, the city, it bears the name of the city, the headquarters used to be here, but the political will to do anything without having a conclusive smoking gun is nil and there has never been that Gotcha. So, even like I said, my hope is, with the studies, that we finally get to see what's in the air. But if that thing is not that conclusive smoking gun that shows look at this thing here that political will is still not going to be there. If it's kind of well, it's kind of sort of the response is going to be lukewarm. It's like, well, you know, you guys, well, it's kind of doing something, but not really so, I mean, and it would take an absolute smoking gun.
Speaker 1:I kind of see it like a CSI case, like you know, it's like those CSI cases where they have the body out on display. You know, they get the rope around the yellow tape around the body and people are watching from the crowd. Imagine the killer holding his gun, proudly standing in front of the cops as they're looking at the body like, oh, I guess we got to find the killer. He's waving at the cops how you doing? They see him with a gun. They don't do anything. Well, we still don't know who did it, but we're going to take this to the lab and figure it out. If there's any major polluter that's affecting the air around there, you can see exactly who. That of that neighborhood telling you who the culprit is Right, and they won't do anything unless they actually have a. This is the culprit, the evidence in front of you, with someone studying it and writing a report.
Speaker 2:So I didn't think we would get off on that too much. So let's talk about the upcoming elections. We have the gubernatorial, and that's two years after the national election.
Speaker 1:Well, that's next year. God off year.
Speaker 2:What do you see happening with that? Do you know who the candidates are going to be?
Speaker 1:Do you know who the candidate is going to be Right now? If it's Democrats, it's Abigail Spanberger, If it's Republicans, it's our current lieutenant governor. Who is Winsome Sears.
Speaker 2:Okay, right, and that's.
Speaker 1:I saw somebody else running Merrill, something, merrill I think there's another Republican that wants their primary against Winsome Sears. But if you're looking at who the leading ones are and I say that only because a lot of other folks have gotten out of their way I think Mayor of Richmond, mayor Stoney, stopped running for governor and went to talk about lieutenant governor after she said she was running. So those are the main ones. Now, honestly, it's real, real early to see if any boss is going to jump in it, because I mean, if you look in the first two or three months, next year is when you'll know for certain. But if you're looking at those who have already said and I am running, without a doubt, or I've been going around talking to folks like I know Winsome Sears has been going even through Hampton Roads talking to local ministers and talking to local pastors about how they can support her, so yeah, the folks who really, really want to get in there have already been moving.
Speaker 2:Right. So what do you think? What do you see? The landscape for the Virginia elections?
Speaker 1:I'm more concerned about, although an Abigail Spanberger wouldn't be a bad pick for a governor. In fact, that's probably the best we're going to do. I'm more concerned about General Assembly. I'm more concerned about the balance of power shifting there. It's not necessary that Virginia elections follow a federal election and how they work out. The balance of power shifting there. It's not necessary that Virginia elections follow a federal election and how they work out, because Virginia is unique.
Speaker 2:I guess they would call it. Would you call it purple state?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Virginia is different.
Speaker 2:They've had during this whole Republican governor term. They've had an assembly that was a Democratic assembly. That's why they weren't able to pass a lot of these abortion limitations in the state right. There's been pushback in this state. So how do you see this playing out in the next two to four years?
Speaker 1:No matter who wins that gubernatorial race, unless one party or other can get a veto-proof majority, they're going to be stuck in a deadlock period. Stuck in a deadlock period. I mean that's what we got right now. That's why he had a current governor veto so many other things last year. Because he knew that there wasn't enough Democrats to override what he was going to veto. He knew that he'd stop a bunch of things they were trying to get through, just to stop them without you know, just because because they couldn't do anything about it to override them.
Speaker 1:Unless they get something an overriding number, if it's right now, say it's Democrats, let's have an overriding number of seats that get picked up. Come next November, they may be in the same boat. I mean, at this point it's hard to know whether an Abigail Spanberger can even beat any Republican that shows up. I'd like to think she could, at least in this state, because that's a whole host of other problems we may not have because of it. Like what? Well, like I said, we're the only state in the South that still has nothing, that is, no anti-abortion law on the books.
Speaker 2:That's because he couldn't pass it through the assembly right. Right, because he had a Democratic majority that pushed back on him. Wasn't that correct? Right Right, because you had a Democratic majority, democratic majority that pushed back on him. Wasn't that correct?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:OK, so you think that's going to flip.
Speaker 1:Let that General Assembly do anything wrong. It's possible.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:So then, whatever on the federal level happens to money is going to state, to to counties and localities around here. Money's going to counties and localities around here. The wrong general assembly or the wrong governor might go right along with it, regardless of who they have. That's in the general assembly. If it's about HUD money. If it's about Department of Education money, if it's about Department of Transportation, if it's about the interior, it could affect projects like the offshore wind project, stuff that's going on. It could affect all any kind of environmental issues when it comes to reusables that are happening in the state. It could affect immigration. I mean if there's one. I mean even in Norfolk. If there's one population in Norfolk that is growing, unlike every other population, it's Latino folks. It's the only population that's growing, not white people, not black people, not Asian people, latino people and that's not reflective across the state. But if you're looking even across the state, that's still the fastest growing population Now. Does that mean they're undocumented or no? The fastest growing population Now? Does that mean they're undocumented or no? And how does that affect what Virginia does when we get a president in there who's promised mass deportations across the country and maybe the first year he gets in there. He can't do it the way he wants to in Virginia, but if the right governor gets in there or the right General Assembly gets in there, maybe he now has friends to get it done. It really depends, but like, but I guess I'm paying more attention to that general assembly and getting the right number of people in there.
Speaker 1:And that's not to say democrats are doing everything all perfectly, no, but if it's a matter of the folks, I can. You know the, like I said, it's targets softer target, harder target. If you know, can they, can they? Can they keep the majority they have or improve it? That would be the better thing. But right now I don't know if they can improve that majority, much less keep it, and that's the scary part.
Speaker 2:So I see, um, I know that they latinos make up a percentage of the workforce. I'm wonder how that's going to wind up affecting things in this area.
Speaker 1:Well, this area, I don't know. But if you're talking nationally, if you're looking at the folks who go get our food, our vegetables, our fruits, you're talking 30, almost 40% of the workforce, and this is from undocumented folks 30, almost 40 percent of the workforce. That if you had a mass deportation and this is from undocumented folks 30, almost 40 percent of the workforce that do things like vegetables or fruit or work on farms or beef or eggs and stuff Stuff, that's already high for some unknown reason that nobody seems to understand.
Speaker 2:You take them away, it doesn't go down. Right, it's higher, right, it's higher Right.
Speaker 1:The thing is, we knew this was going to happen when Trump was trying to do that the first time around and during his presidency, and when Biden didn't stop many of the things that Trump was already doing, reducing the number of folks who could do this work. That's why our grocery is so high right now, and you know, when eggs are $10 a carton, all right, there should be any questions asked about it, especially if we're doing mass deportations. We're talking service industries 20, 30% of service industries. Right, we are in a country that's kind of well still in a housing crisis, in an area that's really focused on a housing crisis and in awful eviction crises. So when you've got people getting thrown out of housing because they can't afford housing, and you've got housing getting thrown out of housing because they can't afford housing, and you've got housing that for lower income folks not getting built, what happens when you lose?
Speaker 2:I think that's about 40-45% of workforce when it comes to construction. Yeah, I have a friend who works with a major construction developer and he says if you come to his site you do that. That's going to be like 40 50 percent, right, their actual workforce and that that's the, that's the crazy part and they have. They have projects into the next 10, 20. Oh wow, okay, yeah, so they're. So they're a large developer. He's like I. It's just what's going to happen? Everything's going to slow down.
Speaker 1:See, the crazy part to me is when you saw a whole year of conservatives talking about they're taking your jobs and Trump talking about black jobs getting taken away by Latino folks or undocumented folks. Now here are the facts.
Speaker 2:When you're looking at the right America's period, ain't doing those jobs like that so it's like when you have a hard time finding american, that right just doesn't right once you do that when you look at the jobs, you know when they look at the jobs they're doing, it's complementary to the america the americans doing jobs if they're doing the unskilled world, labor oriented jobs.
Speaker 1:Americans doing all the jobs around it if they're the the ones building houses and doing roofing. For the most part, americans are doing electrical work, they're doing carpentry, they're doing other types of work. That's complementary. In fact, the fact that we have a workforce of that size is helping to produce more jobs to get done, whether it be service industry, whether it be construction, whether it be agriculture. The fact that they're here doing their work is making it possible for other jobs to get generated in other parts, because, as they're producing stuff, stuff's got to get processed and that's usually where Americans are doing it. So take them out. We're shrinking our workforce and shrinking job possibilities for us and for housing and for a bunch of other stuff. So they're not. Them being here is making some Black jobs and that's the weird part, that nobody talked about that piece when they could have.
Speaker 2:Well, I think what we get caught up on? Number one we've been conditioned to not want to have a conversation about race, because if you are a person of color and you bring it up to a white person, the first thing you said is why are you making this a race issue? But here's the thing If you live in America, it's always been an issue about race, right? That's what the whole purpose of what he's doing it for, that's what the whole thing is To make sure that in his mind, I'm thinking okay, we're going to create more jobs for people that are here, which the majority of the population at this point that's dwindling is white European people from that part of the, that part of the world, but it's shrinking, right. So the whole idea is to try to preserve that.
Speaker 1:But that's just natural. You can't stop that as long as people keep having babies evolution is going to take place.
Speaker 2:You're going to wind up developing it, so you may slow it down. You might slow it down by 18 months maybe, but you're not going to slow it down by years. So, when you take a look at it, that is the whole purpose of what he's doing, or his thought process that people are going to be in office. So it's always been about race Right. So one of the things I decided that I'm going to continue to do is I'm going to talk about race Right, all right, so I'm not to continue to do. Is I'm going to talk about race Right, all right. So I'm not a racist, but I'm not going to feel like I should not talk about something that makes you uncomfortable, so you are comfortable with continuing to do things.
Speaker 1:I'm like this comfortable with continuing to do things. I'm like this. No one has ever worried about somebody Black or Asian or Hispanic and their comfort when it comes to talking about race. No one's ever worried about our comfort when it comes to dealing with things that have to involve race. So why are we all of a sudden worrying about white folks' comfort when it's always been kind of uncomfortable and discomfort has been the uh, the standard has been the norm it's conditioning, right, it's conditioning.
Speaker 2:and because you talk about it doesn't mean that you're prejudiced or you dislike another race of people, right? I? I've never been like that. Um, I look at people from the standpoint of decent people I look at or not decent. I look at people from the standpoint of marginalized, or people that need and people that don't need as much. So that's how I'm looking at it. So not only does it affect people of color and white people, it also affects people that are marginalized, right, it doesn't matter what you are, so if you can't, the key is education.
Speaker 2:If you can't, the key is education. The key is you just have to start. We just have to start talking about what these issues are, whether it's uncomfortable or not.
Speaker 1:Right and it doesn't equate hate, because I'm like it can't. And I mean, why the the worldview when it comes to talking about race turned into? Well, if you talk too much about race, then you're talking about hatred. Why does that? Why does that apply to every single other race? Why does it apply to everyone? Because it's never worked, Doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2:It's conditioning, but the bottom line is. But the bottom line is, you know, if you really and I've had this conversation, numerous conversations with OK, my kids can't Buy a house, my kids can't afford to buy groceries, my my, you know, my 30 yearold's having a problem making ends meet. Well, none of that has to do with a group of people.
Speaker 2:That has to do with how your economy's functioning. It has to do with what companies or industries are taking jobs and money out of your community. Okay, and profits, corporate profits and greed. That's what those issues are Right, and it's not something that is it's not selected to one Democratic I mean one party, not the Democrat or the Republican, because they both are doing it. So if you really want to change this, you need to get together and go, okay these are all the marginalized people.
Speaker 2:And you need to vote like they did in the last election. So what happened was you had a third of the people voted for trump. Just under a third of people vote for kamala harris and a third of people were just disinterested, and that's what happens. So I don't know. If we're seeing that, I'd imagine on a local level we're also seeing that. So this is what you get. Okay level, we're also seeing that, so this is what you get Okay.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're a low voter turnout country, no matter how you do the vote. We're not going to ever we're not been 80, 90% of participation. We're lucky to see 55, 60% of participation.
Speaker 2:But unless you want change, one particular party or one person is not going to give you change. You're going to get changed. You have all the power. You had all the power to change all of this.
Speaker 1:But that's part of the problem. You're an individual person and you have all the power to change this. But that requires you working with your neighbor, that requires working with your community, it requires you working with all the other folks. But if your individual struggles are yours they're your families, they're your kids in schools, there's your job, there's your housing when you only see this as an individual struggle, you feel like you don't have any power to change any of it. And when someone comes to you and say, hey, you can do this, you can have the power to change it, you look at them like, okay, uh-huh, sure you're right. I see that every single time I go to work. I see that every single time I go to work. I see it every single time when I'm telling folks look, collectively, you have power. When you organize that power, you can use it. We can demonstrate it. We can show you how to demonstrate it. You can work and they'll look at you like, oh, that's nice.
Speaker 2:The thing that you're doing, uh-huh. But that's also conditioning, right, right. It's also conditioning too, right you have. You have more power than anybody. So that's includes a billionaire, any billionaires or a combination put together, see the way your country was set up. But if you don't, if you don't exercise it, it doesn't work out like that. So I said all I had to say. I hope I'm wrong and I hope this all works out for everybody, but I, I don't see your eggs are not going to get. I don't see your eggs getting cheaper.
Speaker 1:I got a little backyard. Now I'm debating buying chickens or something. That way I ain't got to worry about nobody else's eggs, but I definitely know that you start pulling them off of construction sites.
Speaker 2:Housing is not going to get cheaper.
Speaker 1:It's not going to get cheaper, not going to get cheaper.
Speaker 2:It's not going to get cheaper. Not going to get built. Yeah, your gas might get a little bit cheaper because they have a. They have a backdoor in road to the administration. But what's just happening right now in the Middle East is a threat to increase your the fuel prices coming up now. So I hope it works out. I'm going to err on the side and say it's probably going to get more expensive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that grocery bill is going to be insane. I'm like I see that coming right now.
Speaker 2:And then you won't have to.
Speaker 1:I don't know, so I just I think this, like I said, this is the part of stuff that a lot of liberals thinking folks did not contemplate, the like to break it down. Yes, you have people talking about project 2025, you plan on doing this, that and the other, but I don't think they broke down how does that work and how do they survive it and how did they get through it? Because a lot of folks were either dreading it and not wanting to think about that part, or hoping Kamala Harris is going to win and, had you know, stuck in that elation.
Speaker 2:Now we can get back to talking about that thing. Now, that's on the Democrats' fault.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean no, your boy should have been caucus.
Speaker 2:He wasn't going to win, he puts his ego before himself and everybody else.
Speaker 1:Joe Biden said in 2020 and in 2021, I am the doorway to another generation of leaders. He implied I'm not running, but one time. And folks were like, well, okay, you're getting Trump out of office, you're going to run the one time, okay, let's go. That's not the promise that was kept. That was the big one. I mean a caucus at the end in the last year, before the election, wasn't enough. He needed to have been like I'm not running and the door would have been open to God knows like a Josh Shapiro would have jumped into it, maybe Kamala Harris, maybe a few others, and had an actual race for his for for his job. That he would say and declare I'm not getting into it. But what was it? 2022? It was during that same year as the midterm. We hear about Joe Biden's presidential election committee cooking up and they get their money right, and it was like didn't you say you weren't going? Didn't you say you were doing a gateway to another generation?
Speaker 2:Ego and age, ego and age. So this is what you got America.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, not every president needs to be a two-term president. Not every president is going to be a two-term president, and I think that if he had stepped out of the way then and gave room for somebody else to jump in, they would have a better shot.
Speaker 1:Much better, and I mean what Kamala Harris tried to do was Herculean. Let me jump in in the last 90 days or 100, some odd days and try to win a presidential election. It normally takes people a year, year and a half change without blanking. Well, I mean, the thing is most candidates are on their running. They'll start that 18, 20 months and have their money together probably by the midterm. The thing is, she tried to jump in in three months and do what most candidates do in 30. And, like I said, that was a Herculean effort, but it was a Hail Mary and that's why, you know, I never bought into the hype, because I was like this is a Hail Mary shot, it's the end of the football game, you're about to lose it, let's see if the receiver can catch it, type thing. You can hope for a Hail Mary, but in the back of my head it's like well, let's hedge our bets, get ready for it either way.
Speaker 1:The day after the election, I said I went to work and that was what is the next steps? What are we looking? You know, as far as local, you know, meanwhile, like people are describing their dread. That was 2016. I'm describing my dread Now. No, there's no, there's no point to that, because the worst of results has already come about, where you know. You should have had months and months and months preparing your dread. The dread should have happened the night.
Speaker 1:Joe Biden walked on that stage looking like he was the oldest man on earth. It should have happened that night. If it was going to happen late, before he said a word, I was like, okay, but that dread should have been gone then, because we're in the middle of it now and now it's just crazy, day after crazy, day after crazy day of who's going to be in the cabinet, you know, and why people are still acting shocked over that. I have no clue. Yeah, that's the kind of when I say the people aren't anticipating what happened next. That was something that was easily to anticipate. Next, his cabinet picks and how he's going to run it and how he's going to shock, shock, shock, shock, shock until it just numbs you. That's the kind of thing that people are interacting like. It's the first time this has happened. We did it the last time. It was slower the last time, but All right.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate you coming in and talking with us. No, I appreciate it, no problem, all glad to do it and give me your perspective. We with us? No, I appreciate it, no problem, all glad to do it and give me your perspective. We don't do a whole lot of town-specific things.
Speaker 1:This is kind of shotgun conversation, so I know that's fine, but I do appreciate you coming in. Anytime.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us folks. Any last thoughts?
Speaker 1:Well, register to vote. I know it's an election, but do it now. It's the least thing. It's the least thing you can do. You do that, dmv, go register to vote. And if you register to vote, if you've got local candidates that are running an election, that you see them out there, go volunteer for the folks you want in office. Don't just vote for them. Knock on some doors for them. Yeah, that's another thing, right, I mean you want somebody to get in office, then get them in office, yeah.
Speaker 2:You home grow your candidate Exactly, then you're attached to them. Okay, all right. Well, thank you for following us on Listen Up. That's it, we'll catch you next. For anyone watching this channel, I ask that you please like and subscribe for upcoming videos.
