Listen Up with Host Al Neely
Hi, I'm Al Neely. I've spent most of my life asking, " Why do people behave a certain way? Why don't people understand that most everyone wants basically the same thing? Most everyone wants their fundamental need for peace of mind, nourishment, shelter and safety."
What I have learned is that because of an unwillingness to open one's mind to see that some of the people you come in contact with may have those same desires as you do. We prejudge, isolate ourselves, and can be hesitant to interact, and sometimes we can be belligerent towards one another. This is caused by learned behavior that may have repeated itself for generations in our families.
What I hope to do with this podcast is to introduce as many people with as many various cultures, backgrounds, and practices as possible. The thought is that I can help to bring different perspectives by discussing various views from my guests that are willing to talk about their personal experiences.
Hopefully we all will learn something new. We may even learn that most of us share the same desire for our fundamental needs. We may just simply try to obtain it differently.
Sit back, learn, and enjoy!
Listen Up with Host Al Neely
From Classroom To Canvas: Jessica Chevon On Art, Censorship, And A Modern Renaissance
A decorated high school art teacher walks away from the system—and finds a bigger canvas. Jessica Chivon joins us to share how she traded classroom constraints for a studio-first life, why students are hungry for handwriting and analog craft, and how sketchbooks can quietly reveal anxiety, resilience, and hope. Her story threads personal transformation with a larger cultural shift toward authenticity in an age of AI and instant everything.
We dig into the tensions inside modern education: AP-heavy schedules that sideline creative courses, permission-slip politics around museum nudes, and the chilling effect of censorship on curious minds. Jessica makes a compelling case that art has always been a grassroots technology—pen, paper, and an idea are enough to move people—and that’s exactly why it gets squeezed. From Shepard Fairey’s Hope poster to Norman Rockwell’s late civil rights works, we explore how images carry social change. She also spotlights Kehinde Wiley’s portraits and sculptures, which center Black subjects in heroic, Renaissance-inspired frames, reframing who belongs on the wall and why representation matters.
COVID turned out to be an unexpected studio residency. With document cameras and livestreams, Jessica discovered that adults crave real instruction without the commute, and that kindness plus clear steps can turn “I can’t draw” into daily practice. She’s building an online school rooted in community, modeling a path many creatives quietly consider: use tech to teach, keep the work human, and let the craft lead. If you care about arts education, mental health, and finding your creative voice amid noise, this conversation offers practical insight and a hopeful map forward.
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Hello, everyone. Welcome to Listen Up Podcast. I'm Al Neely, and today we're in season four, and we're talking with people in the arts and performing arts. And our guest today is Jessica Chivan. She's an artist and a former art educator. Yes. Say hello.
SPEAKER_03:Hello.
SPEAKER_01:All right. As well as my friend.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. And for a long time.
SPEAKER_01:For a long time.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So you just recently left teaching, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. What are you doing now?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so um you you left the public school. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And you're doing teaching for yourself.
SPEAKER_00:So yes. Okay. I was a public school educator for 12 years and was a decorated teacher. I loved my job, very passionate about my students. Um the system, though, kind of was a I don't know. I just wanted to get out of the system and kind of do things my way. I think if you talk to a lot of teachers, they'd say the same thing. So uh I was just in a position where I felt like it was time to do that. And it's the year of the snake. And I've been going through a lot of shedding and transformation, and uh I just decided it was the year to do it and go out on my own, and here I am.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. So tell us when did you realize that you um had a gift for art? Oh, um because you actually have two gifts.
SPEAKER_00:Oh.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm excited to hear what they are.
SPEAKER_01:I'll tell you. But go ahead, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:No, I want to know what the two gifts are.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you're an artist, uh-huh, and then you have you have a fantastic way of conveying your message. It's always clear. Um thank you. You're super kind, you're an excellent teacher.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Right. That is my purpose, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you're the perfect combination of an art educator, which you are. Thank you. And those are your two gifts. So, but let's just talk, let's start out talking about art itself. How'd you get started with art interests?
SPEAKER_00:Um it's a long, I have a long, complicated story like many have. Um I was raised by my grandmother in Texas, and she just noticed that I loved to draw, and she was always encouraging me to, you know, she'd buy me all the supplies. And um yeah, I mean, I was just always and I loved finding things in nature, like digging and looking for rocks and arrowheads, and I would dig in the ground and find red clay and like make things out of the clay and put it out in the sun to dry.
SPEAKER_01:What's your preferred medium?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, and it's so funny because I don't really like to work with clay, but um I guess that's what I had as a kid, you know, just getting my hands into something.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I like to do, I I guess, well, it's a complicated question because I've been teaching for so long that people ask, what kind of art do you do? And I'm like, I I don't know how to answer that because I've been teaching others lessons on how to do everything. So, but I guess I specialize in portraits. Like I love drawing and painting people.
SPEAKER_01:Drawing and painting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Anything 2D, drawing, painting. And I'm kind of finding that style now. And I'm 41, so it's like I've been teaching art and doing art since forever. But this is the first year of my life, I feel like, that I've been able to sit in a studio and just do what I want to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. After talking with you, you have so much going on. And it seems as though, you know, you you have life's challenges, you just, you know, um left teaching in a public school system, but you a whole new world is opened up for you for things that are passionate for you with teaching your online courses and then um just trying to develop your career from here, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, and what does that feel like? It feels really good. I have always been a positive person, not always, but um let me back that up. My high school time was really tumultuous. I was living with my mother, who I have no contact with, um, and we did not have a good relationship. And my art classes were like the one thing that I was good at.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So um, and my stepdad was in the military, so we moved around a lot. And yes. Okay. And so, well, I have a dad that lives here too, um, which is why I ended up staying here. But um, yeah, art just kind of saved me in high school. And I realized if I just kept a good attitude, things just happened for me. So I was lucky to discover that kind of at a young age, um, just going through uh, you know, just going through life. And I know the trauma word is huge now and it's annoying, but I did have some trauma with not having that female, you know, uh that mother figure, um, which is different for girls. Like a lot of people just assume girls have great mothers, and that's not always the case. Um and so uh yeah, art in high school just really saved me. And I decided back in high school, I was like, this is what I want to do. I want to create a space where people feel safe and want to create. Um, and so I've I've been lucky in that I've known what I wanted to do for a long time. So as soon as I got out of um high school, I was like, I want to teach high school art. That's what I want to do. And uh it was a long journey, but I had a lot of great professors at ODU that were very encouraging. And um one piece of advice that someone told me that really helped me get through school, because college I was working, as you know. Um, I was working wait waiting tables and going to school at night. And my other friends were, you know, doing the four-year college experience. And I definitely felt a little behind. Um, but what got me through was I would have so many people say, Oh, you don't want to teach. Like they're not hiring art teachers, they're taking art out of schools, they're, you know, and someone said, never listen to people that don't encourage your dreams. Yes. Always listen to people when they are like, Yes, you can do it. Only listen to that. And then, because there's always gonna be people that are, you know, I want to be an actress or I want to be a singer, and somebody's gonna say, That's so hard. That's it's gonna be so hard to do that. You should just get that nine to five.
SPEAKER_01:And people are judging you based on their limitations, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So so follow your passion, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Follow your passion.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So art in public schools, is it actually is it something that is uh interest, you think, for public schools, or is it actually declining in in the public school system? I think there's so many things that are.
SPEAKER_00:I so I think the arts are more needed now than ever in public education. But I do feel like they are the most uh, you know, they're getting rid of it the most. Like music, art, like they definitely make those classes. Ah, it's just art, it's just music. There's not a lot of um, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is. Interests. Not interest. The students are interested, the classes fill up. It's the system that says, oh, you've got to take these AP classes and you've got to take, you know, Spanish five and AP science and math, and you know, and for artists, and I'm just being very generalized here, but most artists are not that great at math. And so I get those kids where we're just like, well, that's not where we fit in. And so when they're pushing these hard classes on you and you're making bad grades in a subject you don't care about, um, it can be discouraging. So um I think right now, uh, and I've told a lot of my students with AI and everything going on digitally, I feel, I really feel like we're gonna have a renaissance with the arts. And people are just gonna, it's gonna take off. It already is. And you think that's because of uh AI, or you think I think mental health, social media, um I think yeah, AI, things just being so easily accessible and you're able to create things so quickly. I think people want that authentic, handmade. I want to see the mark making. Like I have students, for instance, um, like I said, I've been teaching 12 years, and there's a lesson that I do in calligraphy. So the art of writing. And that lesson, I mean, I have kids a year before I get them that are like, I'm gonna take art. Can we do the calligraphy lesson? They just want to write.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because they don't write, they type and they don't even know how to write in cursive.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I noticed that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So when they come to my class, I'm telling they love learning writing.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And so I think, and if you look at the trends, like kids are buying records and vinyl and they're buying Polaroid cameras, like they're they're kind of going against the technology. Like, I think this generation is seeing in the past few generations, they're seeing like the impact that it's had. And uh they're stepping out of it. I I think we're moving forward.
SPEAKER_01:Are you seeing that? Are you saying that from a teacher's standpoint? Have you seen things specifically? Um, I want to get back to the mental health thing, but have you seen a lot to talk about? Yeah. So so have you seen how that's affected children now? The AI and technology?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I feel like there's not a lot of original ideas, um, especially as an artist, as an art teacher. Um, and the great thing about teaching art, and it's a joke that I say um your art teacher and your PE teachers are your smartest teachers, because we do what we love all day, and it seems kind of easy. But it's it's there's so much with art. Like I can tell a student's personality, or I can even find um issues that they may be having mentally or at home just by their drawing, like how hard their pencil lines are, or how really the brush strokes are, or what colors they use. There's oh yeah, you can definitely psychoanalyze with through art for sure.
unknown:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Never thought about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and I did. I had a lot of counselors at school that would want me in their meetings just because you know, this kid doesn't talk. And can you go through their sketchbook and see? And I I could tell, like, something's going on. Oh, they have smoke coming out of the chimney of this house that they drew. That means there's something internally going on that they're trying to get out. Like, no, I am not a licensed art therapist, but I feel like I could be after the time I've spent teaching. But yeah, you can tell a lot about somebody through their drawing. Maybe we'll do it later. I'll have you uh boy draw me something and I can give you a psychoanalyze you. Okay. But I'm not licensed in that field, but I'm game for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, there's a lot you can tell about um people through their art.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Wow. So you were earlier you were saying that there's kind of a place for you to go, and I guess that was um based on some experiences that you were having. It was your happy place, and you feel like do you actually feel like people use art today to be able to of course express themselves, but also take themselves to a place where they're able to cope with some of the things that are going on.
SPEAKER_00:That's been art for eons.
SPEAKER_01:Really?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah, it's an outlet. Um, and I like to tell my students about um, you know, we go through different times in art where we have uh, say, impressionism and everybody's painting landscapes, and then we have pop art and people are painting. I mean, you can look at art and its history.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And um I really feel that this time, this era is going to be a grassroots movement. I feel like we're moving into a modern renaissance, but the past few years have been all about awareness.
SPEAKER_01:And that's what you see in art?
SPEAKER_00:That's what I see the movement being the past 10, 20 years has been awareness. It kind of started with not started, but Shepard Ferry, his hope, Obama Hope poster. Okay. Is a huge example of how art took a grassroots movement politically. And once again, it goes back to social media and um and just media in general telling us what we want to hear. But, you know, when you talk to people around you, it's not what you're hearing on the news or seeing, you know. An artist, I feel like bring those issues using minimal tools. You know, you can just write it on a napkin, put it up, and it's like the the common man's way of getting the word out.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. All right. Now you've you've got me thinking. So now I'm thinking about good.
SPEAKER_00:That's my job.
SPEAKER_01:Um you I'm go back and I look at different artists in different eras, and I'm like, wow, I I can see what you're talking about. You know, you're looking at a Rembrandt or a Picasso or uh, you know, something it's reflective of the history of the time. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Surrealism, like surrealism's a big one. So Dolly, you know, and all and the surrealist artists, one of my favorites, FridaCahlo. Um, they were getting really big into dream interpretation and you know, psychoanalyzing and psychology. And that's when all, you know, you could find symbolism, more symbolism and artwork. And yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um the name escapes me. Oh gosh. I was just looking at some of his art. He came along during the um segregation period. He was an artist for the magazine.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, Norman Rockwell?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:He's one of my favorites.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, Norman Rockwell.
SPEAKER_00:And I just posted, maybe that's where you got it from, because I just posted one of his pieces.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's kind of embarrassing because a few weeks ago I was in the museum, and it's just, I'm just, I just slipped my mind. But one of the things I was learning, so I have to take a look at some of your stuff too, but one of the things that I I learned from him, he did things for awareness for political and social activism. So that's what you're seeing in his art.
SPEAKER_00:In the later years. Yeah. So in his early years, he did a lot of perfect white families at Thanksgiving, you know, the Saturday evening post.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
SPEAKER_00:And in his but if you look at his later works, he definitely um like he did the painting of is it Ruby Bridges?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That was Norman Rockwell. So he was a big voice for um a positive voice for that time. Right.
SPEAKER_01:So do you ever look at any sculptures and think of things? Do you look at sculptures in the same way? Statues, sculptures, things like that.
SPEAKER_00:I guess it depends. Um it depends on the sculpture. Um, like if you look back at Greek sculpture, you know, they were just looking at the body and the form as art and replicating that. Um, how well you could replicate making stone look soft or like a body, you know, making stone not look like stone was the challenge. Um, and I don't know that I see a lot of sculpture that isn't super modern these days. Like I see a lot of uh, I don't know, I'm I'm not a 3D person myself, um, but I can appreciate it. Um but one of my favorite artists is Kahende Wiley, and he did the sculpture. If I'm thinking of like recent sculptures that I've thought were beautiful, um, he did the piece in front of the uh uh Enrichment. What's that? Why am I having a blank?
SPEAKER_01:Enrichment?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the VMFA, Virginia Museum of Fine Art.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:He's the one that has the sculpture, and I can't remember the name of it, but it's it's like a black man on a horse, and he's got dreadlocks. So Cahende Wiley takes urban characters and puts them in these Renaissance style poses, and you got if you haven't checked him out, you gotta check him out. Yeah, he's one of my favorite artists, but um, his big thing is he would go into a museum and not see his self reflected in the art. And I don't think like that, you know. I'm a white girl, I go into a museum and I see a lot of white art, you know, like Renaissance. If you go in the Renaissance period, like it was. It wasn't a lot of female artists either, so I can relate in that way. Um, but he was like, I'm gonna put black people in these paintings. Like, I want to see myself in these masterworks. And so he would, you know, he that's what he does is he paints um these characters in these Renaissance style poses like Napoleon, but it'll be, you know, a guy in street clothes, and I love it. It was just, I don't know. I just saw one of his works maybe 20 years ago at the Chrysler Museum, and it just blew my mind. And we own one at the Chrysler. Have you been to the Chrysler lately?
SPEAKER_01:Not lately. It's been a few years.
SPEAKER_00:And that's your homework.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_00:You gotta go to the Chrysler Museum. We have a Kahende Wiley, which is a big deal. So he did um Obama's official presidential portrait. Wow. And he was the first, I believe, the first African American to do a presidential portrait. So he's worth checking out.
SPEAKER_01:For the first African American president. Yes. So how do you see current and modern politics and the um the onset of wanting to remove books and history? How do you feel is that that is going to affect art or how is it affecting it?
SPEAKER_00:Well honestly, that's one reason why I couldn't be in the public sector anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Oh really?
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Um yeah, as an art teacher teaching high school, um I had um an instance in the past two years where I was told I had to have my books looked at to make sure there's no nudity. And I'm like, well, I have a lot of nudity in my books. There are art books, like there's sculpture and there's paintings. You can't go to a museum and not see nudity. So it really doesn't make any sense to me. Um there were times also, uh, for instance, I would have a guest speaker come speak to my students, and I had a tattoo artist come. And I got a little flack for that. Like, you should have had a permission form to have this tattoo artist come because not every religion believes in tattoos and they didn't want their students hearing about. And I'm like, I'm just trying to make career awareness available for everyone. Um, so it was just things like that where I'm like, I don't want to be so confined. I am seeing um in this political environment um a lot of uh censorship for sure. And you can't have that with art. And especially when you're teaching high school, you know, you've got kids that are 18, you know, they're about to join the military and we're worried about them seeing a nude figure in a book. It just those are the kind of that's just one of the, you know, that's just one of the things that I was like, I've got to get out and do my own thing.
SPEAKER_01:So you started teaching when?
SPEAKER_00:2013.
SPEAKER_01:And when did you start began to see the change taking place? Or um or has it always been there?
SPEAKER_00:I feel like maybe it's uh I feel like maybe it has always been there. Um maybe I was a little more ignorant to it because I was new and so I was really aware of what I was doing. And I've kind of had this like no fear mentality my whole life, I guess, because I've just always moved around and just been thrown in situations that were had to accommodate. So uh maybe I don't notice things as much. I just kind of do my thing, and then somebody says, Oh, you know, that was you maybe shouldn't have done that. I didn't think about it. Um, but I do feel like uh with the recent political environment from 2016 on, I can see a big difference as far as censorship goes and what we can talk about. And um, I remember there's been a few field trips, like there was one to the Mocha actually to see the Kara Walker exhibit.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if you're familiar with Kara Walker. No. Um, but she's an artist that does silhouettes. Um, she's a black artist and she does pretty risque type silhouettes. Um, and a lot of them are based on race. Um, and it was a big deal for her to go to the Mocha. And it was um it was a big deal for her or a big deal for for us to have field trips, yes, our community okay to have a field trip to go there to see these works because there is it's not even nudity because there's silhouettes, but it would be like the outline of a penis or something, you know, and that it was they're pretty risque when you see when you look her up online, you're gonna see, you know, I'd have to tell my students, like, okay, don't look her up on your Chromebooks, like look her up on your phone or on your own personal tablet. But um, yeah, censorship like that it is definitely which I feel we're very behind as far as Europe goes.
SPEAKER_01:Like, you know, their their students can draw the nude figure, like they take figure drawing classes under 18, which I'm not saying is I I don't know, but I feel like we're a little uh it's funny how we are here in the States with nudity and expression, like we're not as free thinking and thoughtful and willful as everybody wants you to think the United States.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:And why what winds up actually happen is I don't I don't see I think people need to be exposed to children need to be exposed to many different things. And I think when you expose people to things, you be tend to see what uh their likes and their uh tendencies are, right? If not, you're gonna get an adult that's in the military, and then there's gonna be something wrong, I feel like, and then you're gonna be in a situation where you're going, oh, I never thought that that person was may have had this issue with this particular thing.
SPEAKER_00:Um and I get that, yeah, it's closed-mindedness, really. Um and that was one benefit of me being a military brat, was moving around and seeing different cultures. Um, and that was something else I was talking to someone about the other day. Um, how we're not traveling as much because of social media. We can take virtual field trips and see things online, and then we don't have that drive to go see it in person. Um, so as a teacher, I was always trying to get my students out of the classroom. Like I've taken students to Europe, we went to New York City. Oh, yeah, we did international trips. I would drive the activity bus to Richmond, Williamsburg, anywhere I could get them just out of this bubble and experience. Um, instead of just hearing about it through social media, like really experiencing it, you know, and I I can relate to that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I believe it's a fear, but I feel like I'm from a larger city and I've seen different where are you from?
SPEAKER_00:I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:Oh Philadelphia.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I've I've experienced different cultures, people, and um things. So I when I see something, it doesn't like shock me. Um people are who they are. And I find that um with experiences like what you provided for your students, that helps you with a well-rounded individual, right? But I think today it's being categorized as liberal or progressive in um those type of things are seems to be frowned upon.
SPEAKER_00:And progressive is such a good word. Like, isn't that what we're meant to be? Like we're meant to progress as a species. So it's not um uh yeah, as long as we're moving forward, I feel like we're doing okay.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So maybe that's part of the the whole idea to eliminate art for that reason.
SPEAKER_00:I think so. I I you're on to something. I think um, I do. I think that there is a system, you know, and it's kind of always been there. And I tell my students this when I was, I can't even remember if we were just talking about, I thought I don't think we were recording, but we were talking about calligraphy and writing. And I teach a lesson on calligraphy, and my kids were always so excited to learn how to write. And I tell them the history, uh, you know, they wanted you to be ignorant, they didn't want you to be able to write back in the 1600s. They saved the information for the wealthy. So it was the church and royals that could afford books and read and write. And it wasn't until the printing press came out that people started getting an interest in writing and reading. And then you see this explosion of, you know, stoicism and people studying science and it being more accessible. And the more information is accessible, I mean, the more people you're gonna get that are gonna say, hey, that are gonna question the things that they've been told. Um, so I'm huge on education, um, huge on reading, writing, drawing. Uh yeah, I think you're onto something. They don't they don't want the arts because that, like I said, it's a grassroots. You can do things with minimal tools. You don't have to have a lot. You can literally have a pen and paper and get an idea and make it spread.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So you're gonna continue to teach online?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And talk about that. What is your your plans for that?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so um, well, it kind of started. I was a few years ago, um, and I have some special needs students that would have assistants in my art class. So the assistants would be helping the student with the work, but then they would be learning art at the same time and they would say, gosh, do you teach adults? Like, I would love to take an art class. And it seems like a lot of art classes for adults are like the paint and sips. And that's fun, but uh it's not, you know, what I would want to do. Um, but I, you know, I think adults forget that we can learn too. Like it's not education never stops. Like you should never stop learning. You should be a lifelong learner and always trying to do something different. And I think a lot of adults, they just give up and they say, Oh, I can't draw. I I've never been able to draw. And it's I I try to say it is, it's like a language or playing an instrument. If you have the right teacher, you can learn how to look at something and say, Oh, I can I can draw that, not just copy. And I love Bob Ross, he's one of my heroes. He got a lot of people painting.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and yeah, so I was just talking about Bob Ross, and someone was saying the great thing about Bob was that he could take you to a different place with his pictures, and you you know, you may have been someone that's lived in the ghetto, but he would paint and take you to the Alps or someplace. Yeah. And um, they they were just talking about how that influenced them as an artist.
SPEAKER_00:He is definitely one of my heroes. I hope I emulate him in some way. I call myself Mom Ross to my students, or they called me mom Ross sometimes because I do. I love the positivity and the you can do it, and you can, and you can follow along and you can learn anything. So that's what got me on the online school was okay, I don't want to work in a system, and part of that system is college. I don't want to go back to school and get a master's and be in debt because people would say, oh, teach at the college level. I'm like, okay, well then I got to go get a master's. And what am I getting that for? You know, like I've been teaching 12 years. Um, I feel that's a whole other thing. I'm like, oh, teachers should have an honorary master's after 10 years of teaching. That should just be a thing. I'm throwing it out there. Oh yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah, hell yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If you've been teaching a subject for over 10 years, then you should just be able to say, I've got my master's in this. Because there's so many people that go four years, five years in school and they've never even set foot in a classroom yet. And I don't know, that's a whole other thing. But um, the online uh also started with COVID. Um, I really thrived during COVID. Um, a lot of people were kind of, you know, like wanted to get back in the classroom. And I did, and I didn't because I felt like I had a little more control. I wasn't dealing with behaviors so much.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so I actually enjoyed being at home and you know, just if somebody, yeah, I had no behavior issues. Um and so I kind of learned the technology there. So I set up a deck document camera and I would draw on the document camera. And I never really did that before in school. You know, it was like, oh, gather around the table and watch me draw this. So once COVID happened, I learned, oh, you can have a camera. And I've started learning technology a little more. And I really, I really liked integrating the technology and seeing what it had to offer. So that's what got me on. Okay, I can teach adults on an online platform.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. How many students would you have in your classroom?
SPEAKER_00:In the public school, about 30.
SPEAKER_01:You would gather around and just watch me do this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would say, all right, let's, you know, gather around here. Or I would have, you know, a PowerPoint with a video that I had done that showed me doing it, but I didn't have like document cameras weren't quite a thing yet. Um, that was something that kind of came in during COVID as a tool to use for online. So um, and the allocation, you know, the funding for all that. So um schools really started putting money in towards technology once COVID happened. So there were, you know, while there were some setbacks for sure, um, you know, I making lemonade out of lemons is yes.
SPEAKER_01:You could reach more people though online.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. And I feel like adults, like, we don't really want to leave our houses. At least I, you know, it's like if I take a class, like, oh, I gotta drive, I gotta park, I gotta do this, you know. When you're a kid, you're like, yeah, my mom's gonna drive me there, it'll be fine. But when you're an adult, it's like, ah, if I could just hop online and do this from home, that'd be so much better. So I feel like the online platform is more beneficial for adults than it is kids. Right. Because I feel like you need that interaction. But when you're, you know, 40, 50, like, eh, I don't want to find parking and I don't want to get dressed and you know, right. We're a little lazier.
SPEAKER_01:That's all right. I agree. You you drive half of your life, it seems like.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's something to uh staying in our homes. Uh, I feel like technology has done that for us too. Like we got in cars and then we were driving everywhere. And I I feel like our bodies haven't evolved as fast as the technology, you know. Like there's still that part of us that, you know, like correspondence, like people want you to get back to them like right away. And it wasn't that long ago where we were writing letters and that you had to wait a couple days before you got the information you needed.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So yeah, even with the telephone, people don't realize that you had to wait for someone to call you back.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, you gotta get a page, you couldn't text.
SPEAKER_01:Just there you go. Yeah. Now it's like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm a little anti-technology in that. Like, okay, I don't wear the Apple Watch, I have one TV. Like, I'm a little anti-technology in that way. But I I love it. I want I want to take technology and make it a positive thing.
SPEAKER_01:Like you spend more time reading.
SPEAKER_00:I wish I could say yes, but um, I try to. I actually spend a lot of time listening to podcasts.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Which I think is great, which is why I was so excited that you were having me on here because I think podcasts are awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What a great way for real people to just get together and have a conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, absolutely. And I find myself doing that too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. No, it's it's awesome. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:So, how can we find you online?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, jesscasne.com.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And C-H-E-V-O-N.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And your paintings, I mean your your your work. Where can we see some?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I'm on Instagram, so Jessica Chabon or J Shavon Art on Instagram. Um, I'm doing a few things. Like I said, this is my first year going solo and trying to promote myself. I was always promoting student work. Um, so I'm working on it. Uh, but I have a few uh I have a YouTube channel where I've been doing nice some YouTube content. And I was going live on YouTube and painting live. Um, and then life threw me a few things, and uh I was going through a separation, and so I'm starting to settle back down now, and I'll be doing some live painting, trying to get it back, you know, trying to model after Bob Ross and painting what I see, you know, just so people can watch.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that would be awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and I've been I've done it a few times where I just paint, uh, but camera quality and all that, uh, you know, I'm working on it, but that's awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have any well, you wouldn't have a studio yet.
SPEAKER_00:I I have a uh so I have no children. Okay. So I'm lucky in that I by choice, I always said my students would be my kids, and that was my career, was my my child. So um I do have a room in my house dedicated as a studio that I have set up. So I'm very grateful and lucky to have that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, we might have to get get you out in public with a studio so we can um get you visible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I've been um working with uh making some money. Yes, that's the big one, right? I but you know, if I feel like if you do what you love and you market yourself and you just I'm you just stay positive, the money will come. You can't think about I mean, maybe I'm a little ignorant to it, but I've always kind of just stayed positive, worked hard, and things come to you. It's just it's just the energy. It really is an energy that pulls things together.
SPEAKER_01:I believe that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I appreciate you coming on and uh thank you talking to us. I'm pretty sure we'll see some of your work, and uh we're gonna definitely check out your YouTube channel. Okay, what is that YouTube channel again?
SPEAKER_00:Jessica Chabon. I think it's Jessica Chabon. Okay. Um and if you go on my website, jessashavon.com, you'll see uh your videos on all my pop up.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you'll see my social stuff. I'm on Instagram, YouTube, website, I think, and Facebook.
SPEAKER_01:Do you have any content of you actually painting? Yes. Okay. So that'll be on your YouTube, right? Yep. And if you go to the website, is it website attached to YouTube? Yep. So they automatically pop up.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Okay. See all my socials on there. And like I said, I'm not huge technology, so I'm not on TikTok and all that. I'm I'm trying to be a little more community-based.
SPEAKER_01:I understand.
unknown:I understand.
SPEAKER_00:Represent the 757, start here and see where it goes from there. Spread the light from there. You gotta start with your community first.
SPEAKER_01:I agree. Yeah, I feel like that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're gonna be all right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay. Thank you again.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_01:That concludes today's episode of Listen Up. We'll catch you next time on Listen Up. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm gonna ask you to click on the links below. Follow, subscribe, become part of the conversation. And remember, listen up.
