Who's Controlling the Narrative | Community Advocate Jessica Sanchez - ListenUp Podcast

Democracy feels abstract until it shows up in your therapy office, your workplace, or your child’s school. We sit down with Jessica Sanchez, an author, advocate, and founder of Daughters Of Both Suns, to talk about what it really takes to support Black and Latina women with culturally responsive therapy, resource navigation, and community-based healing. Jessica explains why “mental health is health care” only becomes true when people can actually access care that fits their language, culture, and lived experience, especially in rural areas where hospitals close, providers are scarce, and internet access can decide whether telehealth is even possible. 

From there, we trace how fear and instability spread through communities. Jessica shares what she’s seeing around immigration enforcement, ICE raids, and family separation, including the economic fallout when workers stay home and the psychological toll when a spouse is detained or deported. We also talk about domestic violence dynamics, why victims often hesitate to speak, and what trauma-informed support should look like when safety and trust have been broken. 

We widen the lens to the post-2024 election environment, where misinformation, repetition, and propaganda fuel division and “vote for me” thinking. We discuss protest energy, the needs of veterans facing long wait times and funding cuts, and why pluralism depends on education, civic engagement, and rejecting white Christian nationalism while respecting freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. If you care about mental health equity, democracy, and real community support, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the conversation.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hello, welcome to Listen Up Podcast. I'm Al Neely, and today we have Jessica Sanchez on with us. Jessica is an author and advocate, and she just well, she's now working on her master's degree in social work, but she has a BA in psychology and a BS in public administration. She is a uh founder of a nonprofit, the daughter of both sons, which is actually um is geared towards black women and Latino women, right? So we're gonna have we won't get into that conversation in a little while, but say hello to everybody, Jessica.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Hello, everyone. Um excited to be here and excited to have this conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah, we we've been we've been trying to do this for a while now.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

So that is long overdue.

Jessica’s Path Into Advocacy

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yes. So I want to talk about where does your passion come from what you do? So how did you get started and and why? What is the reasoning behind that?

Two Books On Democracy

SPEAKER_00 1:25

So I've been at it for a couple of years. Um, I always knew that I had a passion, right? Um, and helping folks. I myself have been through a lot of adversity, a lot of situations, um, personally. Um, so you know, my passion, I love social work, I love helping the community um in advocacy. And um around two years ago, I told myself, look, um, I know my passion is within the realms of within community advocacy, social work, public health policy. Um, and then I started to write a book. I published those two books as well on just the you know the state of where we are, right, as a country.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

What are the title of those books?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

So, yes, one is Democracy Unveiled, right? That's one of the um books that I have as well. Um, and then while talking about the book Democracy Unveiled, it that one talks more about the previous election that we had, the 2024 cycle. Um, and it goes into the um disparities and the if I would say um just how going into right the conditioning of the electoral process can affect folks, right? So it's like dissecting the shadows of misinformation because we're literally at a phase right now where we're fighting misinformation, we're combating deceit, right? So um that one is based on dissecting all the misinformation that happened and how, right, that affected the 2024 elections essentially. Um, and then I also have my other book as well that um I published, which is um breaking the cycle, ending America's legacy to the vision. Um and that one was more of you know, speaking about like it did go into case studies, but speaking about the power of hope and transformative change and also just believing, right, where well believing in a better America, right? Just seeing where justice and equality are not just ideals, um, but they're realities um that we face. So it goes into racial injustice, um, inequality, and political instability as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Okay. Um you've done some work. Uh I want to I want to break it down a few of these. Um, of course, you talk to us exactly why you think these things are necessary because you have a passion for it. Um in some capacity I read where you were working in um um is it with your nonprofit for DEI? Um, or is it is it a corporation that you were working with for that?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

So I I do have my nonprofit daughters of both sons. So the concept of the nonprofit and the idea that Bridge, you know, for that to come forth was to help Black and Latino women have culturally responsive therapists, right? And I think culturally aligned care is very important. Um, we do talk about mental health, but beyond the spectrum of mental health, speaking of having culturally aligned care, that's like a subtopic within mental health, and it is extremely important. So we do a various amount of work, not only gapping care for Black and Latino women, we're culturally responsive therapists. Um, and that's whether you know it's pro bono insurance base or a sliding fee. Um, we also help them allocate resources. So if they need help, right, for job support, immigration, um, you know, domestic violence, just food pantries, I need resources. We have resource navigators that are able to help them across the US to allocate resources. And then we have healing circles, right? Um, I'm doing a lot of community work as well locally in Myrtle Beach, even though the nonprofit is focused across the US. Um, I'm expanding my efforts here locally um because the work is needed. And seeing the under um just representation of our communities, um it just, you know, I'm like, this work needs to, we need to move forward and get this work done and put what is the um what is the outreach, how responsive or I'm sorry, how receptive has the outreach been in that area? So even recently we just we um we partnered with NAMI. So NAMI is you know the National Alliance of Mental Health and Illness. And we've had um last week also we had a conversation with NAMI, a community conversation, because it's important, right? And we were mentioning allyship and what it is um to to go through mental health situations, mental health versus mental illness, right? And we broke down stigmas within the community and how we can better support the community within different cultural um cultures, right? Because that's a thing in in the south. Um, primarily the area in this sector, it is Caucasian. So we have to bring in some intersectionality, right?

Cultural Barriers To Mental Health

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah. Do you see um you work with both black and Latino um women? Do you see a difference for their needs or are are they really similar? Because um I I wanted to talk about those needs, you know, those differences. What do you see?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Um, wow, so when it comes to that, I see differences and similarities. You can't so there's so much within the cultural aspect of when we start talking about underserved communities, right? Um, in general, there's a need, right, within minorities and marginalized and underserved communities. But then when you think about um the representation within the black community, right, there, you know, there's also a lot of work to be done when it comes to culturally aligned care that we're not seeing, right? Or folks not knowing where to get the resources. Yet in the Latino community, we're dealing also with migrants or uh language barriers, right? So we're and then on both cultures, there's stigmas on therapy, there's stigmas on mental health. Because even as Slade asks, the 60s, 70s, if you were to tell someone that you are going through anxiety and depression, that would constitute you to be in a loony bin, right? So now we're pushing these conversations forward and we're doing the work and we're doing the advocacy work and educational work to let people know hey, look, mental health is health care, it is a real thing. We all suffer from it. There's variations, there's a difference between mental health and mental illness. So we're trying to break the stigma. Um, and especially, you know, in the Latino community, there's sectors as well of the Americanized Latinos versus the migrants that come in. So that's another portion that we're working with therapists. We have a workshop coming up that's gonna help both the Latino community and the therapist community that are Americanized therapists help the migrant community of Latinos with therapy because um yeah, the these are bear you know um barriers to access care and language, culture, um a lot of it is intercombined.

ICE Fear And Family Separation

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Right. So I would imagine if you're educated, which um a lot of people they just say okay, you're you're Hispanic, so they group everybody together. Um, so now you I mean you were talking about the Latino community, and when I tend to think of that growing up in a larger city, I was always think of like uh definitely the Puerto Ricans, you know, some Cubans and maybe some Dominicans, but now with the migrants and the people that are coming from um South America, and they are under attack. Um we've never really even thought about the issues that they're dealing with, why they're coming here. And now, on top of this, with um these ice raids and then the trauma that they're facing with being placed in you know, pretty much where it's concerned, which which are camps, concentration camps, and then families being separated, there is probably now going to be something um that we haven't seen in the um mental health community that we're gonna have to deal with. So, have you been in North Carolina, North Carolina was is primarily a farm um natural South Carolina, south, yes. You're in South, yes, so I I would imagine there was probably a large migrant contingent there working and you know the bad days in the fields and things. So have you started seeing any of those people coming in and dealing with issues with them?

SPEAKER_00 13:17

So I've seen a variety of issues, and this is a great topic to discuss on right now because I've seen folks not coming to work because they're scared that they're gonna get taken by ice. One um, two, and even in construction in the area, we're seeing um less progression because folks, the majority of the community that work in construction and helping these bigger corporations, it's not talked about, but it is the southern, you know, southern Americans and the Latino community. So a lot of folks were not going to work for a while, and that has cost in the community buildings to be delayed and the building of you know, the infrastructure to be delayed for projects that were being built, right? So we've seen that. Um, and mental health, this is a great discussion as well because concerning um woman, right? I have women that outreach that they have had husbands that have been deported. Now they're alone with their children, and they're they're trying to keep the family unit together. I know of one family actually that themselves. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

So how are they supporting themselves in that situation? Just do you have any examples?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Oh yes. Uh and and I know about one family specifically, right? That and this is um last year when the race started, a police officer stopped, right? The um is uh a church member, right? Um they stopped the husband in his tracks where he was driving, and they pulled him over. Remind you, he had he had a business here, right? He didn't have his, he was in the process of paperwork. Well, they stopped him, they detained him, they put him in an ice facility from Atlanta to um Miami or in Florida, and then he got deported.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Okay, one thing you said that I want to point out you said that he was in the process of doing it correctly, right? Yes, he he was in the process of going through the stages and the steps to become um a naturalized American citizen, right? What about his family?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

His so now his family's here, um, and they're making plans on all um moving because he's uh from another country. I think they he ended up, if I'm not mistaken, in Brazil. But now they're making plans to all move to Mexico to be together as a family. Um, so imagine the cultural uprooting that that causes a child, right? Children, because they have children from coming to an un Americanized culture to now having that culture shock going to Mexico just so the family can stay together because the mother is a Mexican citizen. Okay, so they're all they just decided that they're planning to make moves to end up being together as a family in Mexico, and this individual had um a business and everything in the United States. No criminal record, no criminal record, none. So see seeing all of you know these families just being broken, um, and even in this area, right? Because we have even personally, I've had some experiences here in South Carolina, um, of just seeing how folks are just ignorant. And when I say ignorant, it's literally the lack of education and lack of empathy, lack of understanding other people's worldviews. Um it takes me aback, to be honest with you, because we've had experiences. I have three kids, and I've had racist remarks made. Me living here, and I used to live in South Florida. So, you know, the undertones and the microaggressions, you you see it a lot, and now we're in a in a stage, right, in this country where I think people feel emboldened to say things that they felt for a long time because that's the energy that's in the air.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

That's quite interesting. So the um the issues that I think we deal with as black women in Americans in here are they're more generational. So now, on top of everything else, we have all of these new traumas that we're gonna learn or gonna have to learn how to deal with. Um this particular family that you were talking about, um they are now what what type of business did he have?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Um, if I'm not mistaken, um it was like construction, like you know, things of that sort. Like, um, so he he had a stable business.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Um which is needed, and we have housing costs and everything going up. Yeah, yeah. You now one of the things I I I noticed a big difference in is my fruits, right? So um when I'm getting my fruits, it's old, much older, you can tell that it's been either eat or shit, and it's been a while since it has been picked because it's boiling a lot faster, right? So I I'm tired of going to the the grocery store and my produce is looking terrible and bad. So um I I don't know where we are. We'll get back to that. But um the sons, the daughters of both sons, S-U-N is for uh black and Latino women.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So I'd imagine uh the sons is duality between both cultures, yeah.

Post Election Instability And Propaganda

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yes, yeah. So one of the things that I've noticed on your your website, you talk a lot about just the different cultures and issues that we're dealing with today. So one of the things I do want to talk about is um the democracy unveiled, and you were talking about democracy itself and um what have you seen since the 2024 elections? You were talking about how it's affected us, but what have you seen um since then? And um how would you interpret what's going on right now?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Um chaos, definitely chaos, definitely what we're seeing um right now in the world is instability, right? Because America is supposed to be the standard. And once America becomes um unstable, the global order becomes unstable, and that's what we're seeing. You know, basically we're at a war right now um in Iran. There's reports coming out of death tolls being higher, um, even over 700 of American soldiers in a war, right? That is not even ours to fight, you know, to fight to begin with. So just looking at where we are from what we started 2025 with this new administration to now in almost hidden mid 2026, we see a lot of instability. I've seen though folks waking up and seeing that at the end of the day politics was played on them in the per se, and a lot of folks seeing that hey, and and I think this is important to touch on folks realizing that we are in a society, and I've been having these conversations where Americans vote on what interests me, the I, the self, and they don't vote as a society for the common good as a whole. So that's I think a lesson in our history that we're learning right now, because in the last election cycle, we were filled with misinformation, we were filled with things, you know, with propaganda. We saw social media being infundated, right, within the independent media to podcasters, to different things, they push the a narrative, right? And it is true when you start saying something so many times, it starts to become believable. Say it enough amount of times, then people will start to believe it. People have heard this propaganda pushed without fact-checking the resources that they have now believed everything that has been said, which has caused um race wars, right? Pinning folks against one another, and it has caused issues of division. So right now, I I have seen, you know, we've seen the No Kings protest. I'm seeing more momentum, especially locally here in Myrtle Beach, where I'm at, which is great because this is a rest state, right? It's a southern state. So once we start seeing the rest states start flipping around, right? And they start saying, hey, this is unacceptable, and they start making their voices heard. Now we're seeing, hey, folks are seeing that what they thought was sold to them in a dream wasn't reality, and that we're all at the end of the day fighting in this um societal battle together, right? It's not who's better than who, it's not the migrants coming for your jobs, it's not um people taking benefits from you, which that's another misconception. It's what can we do to accomplish the societal betterment of you know as a whole in this country. And I think that's what we have to go back to and focus on.

Rural Needs And Access To Care

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah. Okay, so there's quite a few things you said there, but I kind of want to talk. Um let's just kind of go back to a little bit of the things that you were talking about in the beginning. You said you have an organization that does community outreach in terms of providing food. Is that food, clothing, anything that may people may need?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

So we allocate the resources. So we're the bridge and we work with various organizations and we're partnered not only locally but in the US. We're continuing to build and build right our resource navigation system.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

So how how much contact do you have with people that are in need in in those in the areas around you? Are you do you have any contact or a lot or minimal?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Um, a lot, especially recently in the because we focus in the US, but locally we have done a lot of outreach and we're working with partners. So we have gained local partners, and we're actually hosting, talking about the community outreach. We're hosting a healing together community resource fair on June 13th in Myrtle Beach. Well, surfside is an it's a city right near Myrtle Beach.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

But we're gonna what you say is I'm I hate to keep cutting you off, but I'm just trying to figure out some information because I know of some things that are um are taking place in our community. So uh how much of it is actually rural that are the areas that you're you're dealing with?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Would you say rural areas? I would say over 75%.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

If I look at it as a whole, it would be what is the makeup, the racial makeup tend to be in those areas?

SPEAKER_00 26:59

The underserved communities, but this is the thing, racial makeup, go ahead. You know, there's still I can't lie, right? Because there's funding and hospitals that have been closed as well in rural communities, so this does affect communities as a whole, but in terms of access to care and knowing where the resources are and barriers to care, you see the numbers more reflecting towards Black and Latinos and within even rural communities.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Okay, so education has any of the educational um partnerships or um co-ops, anything have are there any type of organizations there for that education of people in terms of just academics or medical or mental um so I would say right, um here, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:25

They do there, there are organizations, right? Like we do have Carolina Health Partners here in Myrtle Beach, because this is beyond in South Carolina, there's many rural areas. Myrtle Beach isn't as rural, but we do have um Carolina Health Partners, they go on sliding fees, not even they a lot of if you meet a certain um threshold in your income, you get free services for medical, vision, and dental. So we have that. We have care team, they're very into diversity and they're all about diversity and inclusion. They have sliding fees and they help um care team.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Care team, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

So they're they're big on that as well. And I see a lot of minorities going there as well to get access to care because they do sliding fees, right? And they're a nonprofit organization as well. So in health access, we we do have that. Um, in the mental health, I would say there's still there's barriers still more because we have we need to work on infrastructure in rural communities. One thing that I saw that's been talked about is um bettering the infrastructure to get these folks in rural communities internet access so they're able to see not only mental health providers, but even their providers online, even for health care for things that are non-emergent, right? For non-emergencies. And this is something that has been talked about. Um, and I think it's important, especially when we talk about access to care, because enrolled communities having these hospitals shut down in these facilities because of funding cuts, at least having that backup of building better infrastructure so these folks can have access or better connection to the internet and be able to see providers is crucial as well. So um we do see, I do see a lot of um help in this area for the disability community. Like with autism, I see a lot of support when it comes to that. Um, but I think the focus when it comes to minorities specifically, there has to be more um support and outreach. Um, and that's where I'm coming in to bridge those gaps and work with other organizations because I feel that we are underrepresented.

Veterans Care And War Concerns

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Gotcha. All right. So you were talking about the war. I don't know what the makeup is, but in terms of the population, uh are there in the Myrtle Beach area, is there a large group of um veterans or um bases or military support systems in that particular area?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yes. Um, so here I'll tell you one thing. They're very into like the veteran community supporting vet veterans, they're all about that. Um there's also I know about I think like roughly like 10% of the population here is is based off veterans from the military, right? So um I know they do have like the VA here, right? And there's a VA crisis support line, and there's a Department of Veterans Affairs here, but and there's also Do you have any knowledge of um how that has been working?

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Because where I am is just pretty much a large military base, and uh I would imagine that most of the services or money spent is a large percent of it is going to go through, or um some type of support system for the military here where I am. And you know, we we try to make sure that our vets are taken care of in this area, but what we're seeing is we're seeing just a lack of care with the veterans, um, the veterans hospital and and just the support systems around here. So I was just wondering, are you seeing anything like that in your particular area?

SPEAKER_00 33:12

So, yes, because this is already, I don't want to use the rule the the word rule, but there's already a limited amount of resources, let's just put it that way. Um, there is long wait times and access to care issues because funding has been cut in those apartments. So even though we do have the resources of having the VA right um hospital, I think the nearest near um military base is in Beaufort, right? Which, yeah, so um so for sure. Um there's and there's a lot of um VA, you know, veterans that struggle too from mental health, um getting up happening with this this thing going on in Iraq.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

And you know, I see it because I've I'm already seeing some of my friends' kids that are in the service, you know, serving. And uh we didn't take care of them in the past. So what did with the lack of funding now? What's gonna actually take place? You know, I I just I don't think we we need to be over in Iran. Um we need to be focusing on American issues, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:29

And that was the whole point of this administration. The whole concept was America first. But when we're looking back right now, are we really focusing on America first? Because we have many issues at home, right? And our veterans, I think no matter whether you're red or blue, we can all agree that we're in support for our veterans. There's no question about that. So just the fact that those um departments have had five like cut cuts to funding, and then not only the the VA but other essential programs, right, in the government and programs that are needed on a daily basis, right? In the educational system and things of that sort. I mean, it's just where you know you you talk about fiscal responsibility, but this is fiscal chaos at the end of the day, because as time progresses, we're going to see the outcomes and they they are not going to be great. And who wants to serve, right? Who wants to serve when they feel that their country is not for them and they're not getting that back here, yeah. Right.

Epstein Files And Abuse Dynamics

SPEAKER_01 35:46

That's what I worry about in this area because I mean we're already struggling with it a little bit, you know. So and it just and this was before the war, so what's going to take place afterwards? Okay, so you work with women, and you probably work with women that in some capacity um have been sexually abused or in having dealt with those issues. And I noticed that you wrote a uh a blog or about the Epstein files. Yeah, so this is probably near and dear um to probably some of the things that you're dealing with on a regular basis, women being exploited. Um what are your thoughts about they're gonna be released? Um they are not released, they were they're gonna be released, they're on my desk. To there's nothing to see, to uh, you know, a couple days ago where um uh Mrs. Trump was getting out in front of everybody, which no one understood. So that so we're we're all expecting something to come down that we don't uh go down that we don't we didn't know about as to why that was necessary to get out in front of that. So what what are your thoughts about what's going on with that mess?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Cover up cover that there's a massive that this this goes so deep, right? And there's a massive cover up. Um, and first, you know, just the way she dismissed the victims, right? Where she was standing, even though she got fired recently, right? We we see Bondi, she was fired um to a much other needed capacity, as they say. But this this is a big cover-up, and I think that's translating in why we're even in this war, also to begin with, because you start seeing patterns, right? Of even when in December we went into Venezuela, right? So there are I think even they're saying even three more million files still haven't been out.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Well, I people say that all the time. You really think all this is just a distraction?

SPEAKER_00 38:19

This is this is a dis first, yes, this is a distraction because we have to think about the name, not only the names, yes, the global elites are in those files, but this is uh the FC files is not only based on officials and you know, elites in America. This is a global issue that goes into sex trafficking, human trafficking, um, abuse. And then you have to follow the money also. And what I think when we start following the money, that's when we're going to see where, right? We're gonna get more um answers to our questions regarding the Epstein files. Um, but this the Epstein files, I can tell you that is a massive cover-up. Um, there's various things stated about Trump in those files that um I'm sorry, mentioned in the in the files.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

I mean, he has the most mentioned. I think they're based on what we've seen, there's like 30,000 more than Jesus in the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

He's mentioned more, which that's wild, you know, to see that so that tells you right a lot, and there have been victims that have come out, you know, talk talking about, and it's been scrubbed off the internet, but regarding Trump, right? And one in particular that came out with a name, um, which I'm trying to recall, uh Jane Doe. She switched her name, and her testimony is all over um YouTube as well. And many sources are finding it credible. I mean, there's we already know that he's a felon, right? 38 counts, I believe, right? And then with all of these other allegations, and then we knew the cover-up of when he got impeached with um Stormy Daniels, also that you know, trying to hide funds, but everything we're seeing, one is a cover-up, and there's puppeteers, he's there's people working behind him, right? And to me, this was all, and I know we talk about this a lot. I really do believe him running again was for him not to face jail time, and now that he has immunity, um, you he can't be touched, right? Because the court has given him um immunity. So this is just we're we're just seeing our systems dismantled, and it's it's heartbreaking to see what these women are having to go through and suffer um because there's no transparency. And I've heard testimonies of the women that have come out, and they've been wanting to meet with the Department of Justice, and this is just being scrubbed under. There's no transparency, um, and a lot, even in releasing the files that they did, they didn't protect the victims, and some yes, felt that it was done intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yeah, so are you with your organization? Do you see a lot of the similarities? Or I I would imagine prior to this that there was we were making gains with protecting women when it came um uh abuse, sexual abuse, because we were allowed to bring those into court and talk about those. Um, but do you see um when you're listening to the victims from Epstein's encounters, are you seeing a lot of similarities to things that the women that you have to deal with on a regular basis?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Of course, because we went from the Me Too era to now kind of going in reverse, right? When there was advocacy and work done on that. And there's a lot of similarities because a lot of these women are afraid when they're going through these domestic violence issues, they're afraid to speak, right? And I can tell you this from me myself as a survivor. I went through domestic violence, right, in a previous marriage, and most victims they they get conditioned within the relationship of thinking, hey, you know what, they're preparing themselves mentally for the next worst event to occur. So having these victims not being able to voice them, you know, what they they have encountered and not being able to fully disclose because they're being threatened as well. And that has been known by several accounts. Um, what the women that I work with as well in these situations, they get threats, right, by the men that they're being abused um by as well. So, you know, there's that I'm scared, or there's that hesitancy of look, first they come out, they start speaking, they start attempting to get help and resources, and then because of dress, they back off, right? They go back, and then you might not hear from them because they're scared of the consequences that it might bring, right? And it's a psychological conditioning that we do to ourselves that we think of the worst case scenario. Or we undermine the trauma and telling ourselves and lying to ourselves, oh well, it wasn't maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, right? Or destigmatizing the whole thing, and it's it's not that way, right? It takes a lot of reflection and work to understand that hey, what was done, what was done to me was unacceptable, and I have the right to advocate for myself. I have the right to acknowledge and hold those folks accountable for what they did to me and pursue whether that's charges, um, advocacy work, whatever it is, you have the right to pursue that and move forward. And we see that with um victims of abuse all the time, the hesitancy.

No Kings Protests And Nonvoters

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Well, with the files and that justice system, that's even that's getting shut down. They're not even getting to to advocate for what's taking place. Yeah, so that's the sad part about it. Um thank you also we also were talking about earlier was uh with the no kings protest um and you know red being in a red state or blue state or just the government itself. I think um the large part of our population is that votes are waking up. Um I don't know how we reach the people that don't vote, and we have a political system that's pretty much just kind of thrown them away, right? Right. So you know, so when we talk about a West elections won, we talk about okay, um this the majority of the percentage of the population that voted, right? Well, the people that don't vote is much larger than either one of the two sides, right? So I think when you take a look at things now, I think we're starting to see that both parties for the most part are not um meeting the needs of our population.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

I mean you could see it now because just now Congress, they won't do anything about all the things that are taking place. Right. Um and if you know you are in a uh the MAGA party, because I don't really think they're Republicans, I just think they're sec of the Republican parties. I think you can break it down. They're just just rubber stamping anything that uh the Trump administration wants, but um you also have a segment of the Democratic Party, which I think are compromised. And compromised because they're involved in some of the same um immoral things that you know their counterparts are involved in. So I think their hands are tied. So um I see with the No Kings protest, people are rising up and saying, you know what, we need to take control of this ourselves because we're represented in um the American community way we want to be represented. So that's a long question, but how do you see this?

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Um, I see this as wow, I'm thinking about at the beginning, right? Um, and I know before even the march of the No Kings protest, I know um a reporter, Jessica Denson, which worked with Trump within, and it's not that I know, but I you know follow her. Um, she was rallying. She actually was against with other folks protesting for him to be sworn in into office on you know the next January 6th for them not to, you know, um affirm him as president. Um, and then you know, those protests started building momentum, and then we started seeing a huge turnout with the no kings protests, and it started building and building. And one thing that I'm seeing, right, is that and I'm and I've heard this from various folks, we are starting to see Caucasian Americans turn up more now, and I see that as I have a I have a philosophy about that.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

I would love to take it before um before the ICE protests, and you saw a little bit of the protest um George during the George Floyd, where people started standing up. Um but what you're actually seeing now is they're starting to realize that they're gonna be some portion of the white meat feel uh they're gonna be attacked.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

And they never had to be concerned about that before, I don't think. So, you know, you you you shoot this white young mother in the face in Minneapolis, and then you shoot this accomplished medical uh physician assistant, I believe he's the physician's assistant for um the veterans department in Minneapolis. You shoot him in the back. So people are waking up going, you know what, this can happen to us. You know, and we've been telling you as a community of black folks that have been dealing with this for right, this happens, right? And um, I mean, you just see it throughout history. I mean, even with some of in the Latino community, you see it with the indigenous community. So I think that that kind of opened people's eyes, and they're they're going, you know, we could possibly be targets as well. So maybe we need to get involved in this. And um, I think that's making a difference. Part of what's making a difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

100% agree. And I was just going to touch on that point. Because, right, back to what I said earlier, as a society, we vote in America based on the I, not as the whole. And once folks start realizing and seeing, oh, this could come to me now, right? Now it's touched you because you're seeing, just like other um marginalized groups, that you could be next. And being white is not going to exempt you from that. So now it's do we continue to move forward separately, or do we just get into all of this together? Because at the end of the day, we're all in we're all in this um conundrum of you know, Americans that are gonna suffer one way or another.

History, Rights, And Civic Power

SPEAKER_01 51:38

So yeah, you know, yeah, and that's why it's a big push not to educate. I feel like that's why it's a huge push. Because if you educate yourself and you people say, I hear so many people say, I don't like history. But if you pick up a history book, you'll see that this has happened time after time, and in this country, quite a few times. But excuse me, if you're educated, you see it coming. And if you're not educated, you tend to be indoctrinated, like you said, you just hear the same thing over and over again, and you start to believe misinformation. Like this is a Christian nation. Um, you know, it's not a Christian nation. We the the people that came here from Europe came here from Europe, and I mean, I have my issues with that, but they came here from Europe to start something that did not exist. Um well, they were being persecuted by they're being persecuted by the kings, and they were being judged by the uh the religious system. Right. And it's like, we don't want that here. So now all of a sudden, you're being indoctrinated that this is how the country was started, which is not that's so far from the truth, and uh people actually believe in it, and you know, that's why we the constitution talks about a separation of church and state for that reason, and you have the freedom to feel, believe, and think however you want to, as long as it doesn't infringe on somebody else's uh life, right? You know, that it's uh that that's where we are. So I'm hoping we keep this momentum with people learning and people um going out and protesting because this country does belong to everybody that is here, and if we get to the point where um we're all or majority of us are voting, then we can control whatever we want, you know, and we don't have to worry about people buying politicians and to control us.

Faith Against Christian Nationalism

SPEAKER_00 54:08

A hundred percent agree with with everything that you said, and um and and that's a big issue in America. APAC is another big issue, um, because a lot of the politicians that we're seeing, um, whether they're even Democrats or Republicans, the ones that have set, especially APAC money, they're not working in the interests of the American people. So we have to hold these folks accountable, right? And me, another thing that I wanted to touch on is even me as a Christian, right? Christians need to stand up against white Christian nationalism. This is a big issue, and we have to be respectful because if we're even looking at this in a biblical sense as well, all of this goes against what we've been taught as Christians, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:05

And we can go you're not supposed to judge, yeah, not supposed to judge and it's violence, yeah, good exactly, and I a hundred percent agree.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

And where not only that, it's that like you said, there's a separation of church and state, because like I tell Christians, how would you feel if Muslims came right into this country? There's an influx of Muslims, and they were to tell you, hey, this is a Muslim nation, and we and everyone here needs to be Muslim, and you have to worship even you know, Allah and all, you know, because folks feel a way about that, right? And we try to indoctrinate that in the schools, right? Right, they will have a big meltdown, right? And I think religion that's personal. I think your relationship with with Jesus, with Christ, with God, or who you choose to believe in, right? We can agree to disagree on we don't have to believe the same things, but we do have to respect one another for believing in what we do believe in, and that's the issue. There's no respect of boundaries, right? We want to indoctrinate and enforce, and that's not what America was built on, as you were saying, and we have to stand up against Christian, white Christian nationalism because that's yeah, if we don't do it as Christians, this is what's giving the religion of Christianity a bad name, right? Because it makes it brings a stigma of us wanting to Christianalize the nation and not have respect for other folks' points of view, right? And there's a way that we go about that, right? We don't enforce our views on other folks because if Jesus was alive today, they would the Republicans or the MAGAs, they would think he's a socialist. So it's like you know, and then like even in the Bible, it says you should know them by their fruits, and a lot of these folks were seeing by their actions who they really are.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

So in real time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

If you have discernments, you would know as well, right? You would know that these folks, right? You would know as someone with discernment what comes from God and what doesn't, and by seeing the actions portrayed, even by disadministration and the inhumanity of this administration. If you think this is something that's approved by God and you're speaking in the name of Jesus, you have to check yourself because I think you're speaking on emotion and personal beliefs more than having the Holy Spirit direct you because this is not the way. So I that's what I would encourage those that are Christian and if they come and listen this to really reflect, right? We can get our message across without indoctrination and forcing ourselves into systems, and that's where we're finding a big, a big gap in disparity and a lot of chaos and issues because there's no mutual respect. Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

I think we're gonna end it right there. That was a good word. So um thank you for tuning in to listen up, and we'll catch you next time on listen up. If you enjoyed today's episode, I'm gonna ask you to click on the links below. Follow, subscribe, become part of the conversation. And remember, listen up.