The Me Inc Podcast
A series of inspiring conversations with individuals fully embracing this experience called life. Listen to gain insights and perspectives into how you can lead a happier and more fulfilled life while exploring emotional intelligence to navigate the challenges and opportunities that come your way with greater ease and resilience.
The Me Inc Podcast
Episode #11 - Authentic Leadership: Kathy Eastwood's Transformational Journey from Corporate America to E Equals Why.
What does authentic leadership look like, and how can it change our lives? Ponder this as you join me and Kathy Eastwood, CEO and founder of E Equals Why, in a transformational discussion about leadership, self-discovery, and personal growth. Kathy gives us a glimpse into her journey from corporate America to creating a leadership framework aimed at eradicating bad management. As an overachiever, she chronicles her struggle to align her values with her goals, revealing how a year off led her to redefine her path and become a 'player' in her life.
Drawing from our frank conversations, we dig deep into the fear of change and the power of choice. Kathy shares her experience of a young marriage, the fear of failure, and the ultimate liberation she found in redefining her life narrative. Together, we lift the lid on the elusive 8% who are successful at achieving their goals and how intrinsic changes can help you join this elite group. We also delve into the E3 Leadership Framework and its power to help you prioritize and execute change in your own life.
As our conversation unravels, we exchange thoughts on managing self-doubt and the transformative power of personal growth. Kathy shares the 'Miracle Morning' routine, a testament to the significance of self-care in the realm of leadership. She also shares her experience with the EQi 2.0 assessment. We wrap up with a thought-provoking exploration of self-leadership and the courage to speak up, highlighting the importance of continuous learning in our leadership journeys. This conversation is not just about leadership, it’s about learning how to manage ourselves to achieve our goals. The insights here are invaluable for leaders and anyone seeking to live a more authentic and fulfilled life.
E3 Leadership Bootcamp:
Register here - https://bit.ly/E3Bootcamp
Discount Code: MEINC10
Kathy's Contact:
Linkedin - linkedin.com/in/kathyeastwood
Website - eequalswhy.com
Email - keastwood@eequalswhy.com
Okay, so super excited for today's episode long awaited. Today with me is my very, very dear friend, kathy Eastwood. Kathy is the CEO and founder of E-EqualsY. E-equalsy is a leadership development company focused on how leadership is viewed, delivered and measured. Kathy, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, Nigel. I'm excited to be here. It has been a long journey for us to finally get here.
Speaker 1:It has been a long journey for us to get to this point. I always like to start, before we jump in, with the backstory of what makes the guest on the podcast so special and so genuine, at least why I'm putting forward these conversations. So Kathy and I met in 2019. We met again. It seems like I'm always in Grenada for a funeral, but I was there for my granddad's funeral. I just wanted to take a break. I think I was preparing the eulogy that day. I wanted just to take a break, get some fresh air. I walked out and then Kathy and our friend Natalie. They were at the same hotel, so I passed by.
Speaker 1:I followed the first time and I had a superficial conversation, but I was just keeping moving in my head. If you've listened to much of the podcast, you'd hear me note that I'm an introvert in many ways, so I have to be mindful to get out of my head when I'm in the world right. So that was the first time and then throughout that day, we kept bumping into each other. I think we were on one end of the beach, moved to the next end of the beach. I was having lunch with my uncle and there was Nat and Kathy again. That evening we ended up in the reception Was it the guest reception? The cocktail, yeah right, yeah. By the pool, yeah right. And we started the conversation and we went a little bit deeper and I think that's when Kathy first expressed her distress about me living in New Jersey, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I apologized. Yeah, you apologized.
Speaker 1:But then, as we talked a little bit, her first comment to act to me is you're an a-hole. And I was like why am I an a-hole? She's like why would you choose to show people one side of yourself when you're this totally different person? And, kathy, what was that experience? Because that's where we'll start, because every time I think about that, I think that is, by my standards, how any good relationship should start.
Speaker 2:Being completely honest, you're an a-hole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, but what was that experience? What did you start with Before I tell everyone, or share with everyone, what it's blossomed into? Right, so go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, I just really get upset when someone can't live their genuine self and they're putting on an air to be someone else. And I was like you're wasting your life and why would you do that?
Speaker 1:Well, what did you think? What air do you think I was putting on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, You're just trying. I felt you're just trying to well, for a lot of people it would come across as you're trying to prove yourself being better than you are. For me, I thought there was something more there, and that's what upset me, because there was just being able to have the conversation with you. I'm like there's more there and you're not letting me see it and I want to know more.
Speaker 1:And that's why I called you on it, but I do believe that and maybe it is something that goes like I don't believe that everyone genuinely cares, so therefore, you shouldn't genuinely let everyone in, right? If it's something as simple as how many people how often do you hear someone genuinely say how was your day or how are you? And, as we get older, the way that friendships occur and a lot of those things, it is in a way where people don't necessarily always want to see us, right, we're all caught up in what we're doing. So it's usually I think I was coming in my lived experiences that people generally don't care. They just care of being someone being polite. Hey, you're at my country or you're in my country, Check this out. This is pretty cool. Have you seen this, right? The very, very surface conversation? But, needless to say, since that day, we've actually we've met once a week, every week, since October 28 of 2019, right, I'm actually getting goosebumps because I'm thinking about it and really, do you have that consistency? And I think in the group or the mentoring group that we started in 2020 or so, like, we meet often, but you're probably one of the few people who we've had these conversations, you know consistently right, and you've actually had some really mind shifting and life altering at least from my perspective conversations with me.
Speaker 1:I remember I was going into a difficult conversation at my employer at that time and he said to me what is your objective for this meeting?
Speaker 1:And then you're like, okay, remember that you were like everyone else will want to talk about how they feel. And feelings are just an emotional response and it feels good in the moment, but it's not going to get you any closer to the objectives and the outcomes that you're seeking. And that was the first time that someone had said it to me in that way that I was like, okay, wow, I get it and I was able to get everything I needed from that conversation, but I didn't get the release, the emotional release of I just dumped all my problems onto someone and now I feel better and we don't have any direction to go in. But so, Kathy, I appreciate you in so many way. My dearest friends now, and I am so excited for the audience to hear of some of the insights and how you found your way to this place and what you're passionate about. So where we start with everyone, if you don't mind, who is Kathy Eastwood?
Speaker 2:Well, you've done my. You've worked with me on my EQI. You know this is the hardest question that you're asking me, and starting with because my self-regard is probably one of my lowest EQI elements of talking about myself. I have a lot of self-doubt, but with that I'm going to power through and tell you a little bit more about me. I am a nurturing driver is my tagline and something I start with when I introduce myself to a lot of people. It's taken me a long time to figure out who I am, what I stand for, what I'm passionate about, and when I look at that tagline and being a nurturing driver, it sums up a lot of who I am.
Speaker 2:I'm someone that loves to get things done. I like to be in the 8% that accomplish things, but the way I do it is caring about people. So I am an Ares, like some others that are on this call with me, and I am driven. You know I'm a bit of an overachiever and I love to work with other people and help them get to where they want to be as well, and so I love to connect to people and help work together to get to where I'm goals. So that's kind of who I am at the core and it's really been a journey for me and how I got to starting my business, e equals Y, because it all started in 17.
Speaker 2:So a couple of years before we met Nigel, I took some time off and hopefully we'll get a chance to talk about Stupid Poopyhead a little bit because he was a catalyst in my life but I left corporate America and took a year off to figure out who I am, what I want, what I need, where am I going to get to, and that really helped put everything in perspective for me.
Speaker 2:It forced me to go back and look at my life and define my passion in life and my tagline and everything along those lines. And so today I am a CEO and founder of E equals Y, which is a leadership development program that you mentioned and where I'm going. I was always number two in most of my careers of helping other people and this was the first time that I was willing to take that risk, step out and build my own business and want to be able to help others and leave it legacy, so that our mission and E equals Y is to eradicate bad management. I truly believe there's a lot of poor management out there, and I believe leadership can fundamentally change people's lives and help make the workplace where we spend so much of our time better, and not just the workplace, but our personal relationships as well, accomplish and deliver results.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot that you sharing there that I want to start back. One of the quotes that I want to make now is that I think the biggest misappropriation of the organization's assets is poor leadership. We think of waste in every which way, except when it comes to human capital area. So I'm resonating and working back from the eradicating bad management. That seems to be a huge undertaking. We'll come back to that, but driven overachiever. What are the things, then, that you would say got you to that path? So, prior to 2017, when you had this epiphany, you had that pivot, you got to that cross route in life. What are some of the formative things that contributing to you driving in that place, professionally, personally, what are the things that are driving you to that point?
Speaker 2:It all started back in high school. Quite honestly, I go back to my formidable years and I was involved in every sport in the school. I was involved in the band, in some of the school politics, etc. So I had an opportunity to drive change back then. So I was the captain of my teams and I was taught what leadership was about at an early age I went to. So one of my coaches is an inspiration for me, and she has. She's still in my life to this day and we talk often.
Speaker 2:But she really asked me a question very early on in life. You can either be a spectator or you can be a player, and which one do you want to be? It's your choice, and I wanted to be a player. I wanted to be in the game and I wanted to help the team win. And she then went on and taught me that, okay, well, your role is going to be help inspire the rest of the team, because I was the setter on the team.
Speaker 2:I played a lot of volleyball and you're not going to be able to see me on this podcast, but I'm not very tall. My role was the setter and my role was to help make sure everyone was set up for success. I had to make sure I was setting them up for the kill. If anyone the shot or I didn't get the ball in the right place, it's okay, let's go, let's get back on the court, and it just really played to where my strengths were and that's how I looked forward in everything I did. What are we trying to accomplish? We're trying to win the game. How do we engage everyone? Who needs to be lifted up, who needs a direct feedback, who needs this? And how are we going to know if we're winning? So everything started at a young age around playing sports and driving for success, focused on great and doing well and becoming a CPA. It was always driven about results. What's the best that I can do and how am I going to do it?
Speaker 1:I think for you, being the CPA was the one thing about you I like the most. I think it's one of those inspiring things, as you're sharing, right, that we all there are some tenants or some basic tenants that we all have, and I think in one of the prior episodes, captain Deb, we're sharing that if we look back through our lives, the same themes are there for us, right, when we need to find whether or not we're aligned or are living in the way that we would want to live, those clues are always there, right? So once you actually just actually share the goals, how we win and then how are we going to know if we're winning? That is the tenants of equal life. But I've never heard you share it in that way. We'll go more into it.
Speaker 1:But that's the early phase of life, formative part. You're CPA professionally. How is that if you go through the arc of life? So that's before you started your professional experience, so you start it now. What are those themes and what are those things are coming up for you, because in my head I'm going let's work to that culmination of that inflection point where you're like this I've had enough.
Speaker 2:So for me, cpa was just the logical thing. Something told me if you can do well in accounting, you should go after it, because that will set you up for success. It's a good baseline for anything in business and I knew that business was where I wanted to go, following my father's footsteps. But when I learned very quickly in accounting, I don't like routine, I don't like a lot of details. It's just not something that really excites me. I like I have a lot of. I'm an extrovert. We're on the opposite right. We talk about why we might not have gotten along initially. These are some of the reasons.
Speaker 2:I like being out with people, I like to engage with customers and things like that. So as I was progressing in my accounting career, what I was enjoying was implementing a software package, because I got to talk to a lot of different people, I got to understand what the problems were and I thought this is interesting. So I actually went to work for the software company and that was really a huge change for me to go from accounting over to software, and at that point I was doing professional services. From there. They're like oh, you can implement this, well, why don't you go sell the product? So I moved into the sales side of doing technical sales, and my progression in my career was always oh, we need to drive this change.
Speaker 2:Kathy would be great at that, and what I started to learn was I had a reputation for getting things done. So if there was a big project, big change initiative going on, we should call Kathy, we should bring her in. She's going to understand what's happening, she can figure out what the nuances are, where we need to get to, and you'll start to see the story again, nigel, right With the change, where are we going, what are we trying to accomplish and what's it going to take to get there. And so that's. My career was really about moving from one team to the next, helping drive more transformation, more change, and I love doing it, and I was in that 8% of getting things done.
Speaker 1:Actually, you know what that 8%? Let's go a little bit into that, because I just realized that, so I flipped it around. So, rather than the 8% success, I actually do the failure part of it. Do you mind just sharing a little bit more about that insight of 8%?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't have the. It's actually in, you can look it up. It's a number of places that you can prove that point. It is that a lot of people put a lot of good ideas out there but they don't have the initiative to continue to see it through. They get bored, they don't know how to engage the people around them, they don't want to do the hard work. So they put this great vision out there. I'm going to go accomplish this, whether it's personal fitness, whether it's accomplishment in a career, whether it's starting a new business. So most people have great ideas. They just don't know how to go and execute it.
Speaker 1:Wow. So I thought when I there was a research paper that came out on it, right, and I think it was it actually even went back to say, of the people who set New Year's resolutions, or I think it, and then extrapolated further into people who set goals for themselves, only 8% actually follow it through to the end. And the way that I actually did it is that 98. 92% of us are failing at what we're trying to do by not effectively managing us. Right. We can go a little bit more into that, because we'll talk about managing you. So it seems like careers going well, you have a brand, you're driving change, you're getting things done. The framework that you have for getting things done is in place, but what challenges are you having? Right? So, still working to that inflection point of I'm going to try to do this differently, I'm going to walk a different path. So if you continue down that path, so you're doing well, what else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I want to share. There's one other big thing in my personal life that had a huge impact on me to where I get to today, and I thought about it when you shared how I had challenged you in the beginning on one of your meetings. It was I got married at a young age, so I was married at 20. And I was getting divorced at 28. And most of my upbringing I had done everything by the book. I had followed the script. I was now married with a white, with a house, with a white picket fence, with a good career. Everything was going completely according to plan. And then the rug was pulled out from under me. I was absolutely gossed, matt, and suddenly I'm divorced and I was not prepared for it because I thought I did everything by the book.
Speaker 2:And you want to talk about your worst fears and uncertainty and doubt and where you could end up. And I ended up in when I thought was rock bottom. I was living back in my parents' house in the basement. I had worked so hard to get the career, to get out, to get married, to do everything the American dream and despite doing everything, what I thought was right worst case scenario is I'm back in my parents' house, so I always have that experience with me throughout my career. What's the worst case that can happen?
Speaker 1:Okay, so just in how our tangential minds work right and how we operate. So recently you took me through. I was complaining to you about a challenge that I was having with something, right, and you then started walking me through an exercise. So then what? What's the worst that could happen in this space? Right, and that was probably by far one of the more challenging things where, when I'm triggered, I shut down. Right, and with you I don't get the opportunity to shut down, I get to stand there and fully go through it. Right, Because you're going to call me out if I'm not living the way that I put forward, right, that I'm coaching from an EQI perspective, If I'm not aligned, you're going to give me a hard time.
Speaker 1:But that was the hardest thing, right, Because everywhere, every place that I went, you really then held that mirror up to me of, okay, well, that's how you feel, but if you speak your truth, what is the worst that can happen? And then I would say whatever else it was and you would be like, okay, and then what? And we kept going and going and I was infuriated, right, but at the end of it I sat with it and I was like, holy shit, what is the worst that can happen. If you don't like me, you don't like me, but I'm still living my truth right and I am still living in alignment with how I see the world, what I want from the universe and what I've been trying to give to the universe.
Speaker 1:What drives that? Because I'm just drawing off of the story of you at this point and I've struggled with the same thing. I'm doing all the right things, but then I'm coming up or I'm bumping up to results that I'm not in line with what I had planned. Right, but that was one of the bigger things and we recently did this. Where did that come from? And have you kept it from this divorce, this failure? Help me just to understand that right, Because I'm sure someone will benefit from hearing what is the worst that can happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, that was something that I look at. And we have stories in our mind and that was what I was starting to learn. We tell ourselves a whole bunch of stories and those stories come from a bunch of different places. They come from how we were brought up, from our parents. They're brought from society, from the books that we read a whole bunch of places that we believe what is, you know, the right thing. But at the end of the day, you know, as long as we're able to find joy, what does it really matter? Right? And that was the epiphany.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh, I haven't talked about this in so long. It was the thing that I got to choose at that point was freedom. I had a choice when all of this was going down was I could either live my life in sorrow, in, you know, frustration and anger, and stay in that place of I can't believe this happened to me. But I realized at that point I had a choice and I could choose freedom. I could choose what I wanted to do and I shouldn't really live based on what other people were telling me I should be doing. I needed to look at what I wanted to do and then I can go from there. And that actually ended up coming to light for me was I had an opportunity to go traveling. So all of this, so what comes out of getting divorced I got to move to England, right, I would never have been able to move anywhere else. So I suddenly was moving to England to pursue some of my role over there and I now got to explore the world.
Speaker 2:And while I was over there I started to learn a lot more about wow, did you know you can buy an around the world plane ticket? I didn't know that, living in America, we didn't talk about that very often. You get a week or two weeks vacation Living in England. They're suddenly telling me you can travel around the world. I'm like, oh, this sounds lovely.
Speaker 2:And so when someone asked me you know what's your next job? And I'm like I don't know, I just want to travel. And they said, okay, well, do that. I'm like you can't do that. You can't quit your job, you can't travel, you can't write all of these. You can't write in. These limitations are put on us by other people's fears and certainties and doubt. And I'm like, no, actually I can do this. And I remember having to fly home to tell my parents hey, I'm quitting my job and go travel around the world and talk about freedom at that point. And then when someone said you can't, I'm like why not tell me why I can't? Well, you may not get another job when you get back. Okay, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Right, and you keep playing those questions out over and over again. You realize that actually, if you go after what you would love, what's the worst thing that can happen? You get to do it.
Speaker 1:Happiness, I think. But that's you know I'm smiling again because you know I'm. This will be like a testimony, here and now, for the people who know that I was raised in church and that I do have tapes that will play and it's one of the things that I actively try to manage. Right, that is not that whatever I'm thinking is not the current situation, it's probably something from the past. You don't know that.
Speaker 1:This is true, but that space of fear, uncertainty and doubt that's passed down from others around us and our parents, it is the last frontier, I think, from my perspective. Right, because I've always heard you can't, and I was like, well, I can prove you wrong, but that was an internal conversation, it wasn't standing firm in it and saying, well, why not? And what's the worst that can happen? And going through that exploration process and finding that if you're truly doing the things that you love, as you said, and that's what's making you happy, you only have the current moment, right, so that's where, that's where we should be oriented, right, okay, so still going on. So we have that inflection point and we're still this is one inflection point leading us to the other one where you're going to create this radically different view of leadership. So keep bringing us along with you on this story, this journey.
Speaker 2:So I did come back from my travels and I got back into corporate world again and started driving change and I was loving it. I was working for large corporation, getting experience in a lot of different groups, working with different people, and some of it was good, some of it was bad. It was a challenge. I always say working in a large corporation really helps teach you a lot of resilience. It teaches you where failures happen and how to do things differently, but it also shows you how to do things in different ways and in a lot of ways, better ways, right, how it can work if there's money and process and things like that. So again, I was driving a lot of change initiatives and unfortunately I hit the glass ceiling A number of positions. I was named as the successor for my leaders and when they left I wasn't even offered the interview. So it was an interesting challenge at the time and very forced me to do a lot of introspection. And why is that? Is this me? Is it helped pile on to the self doubt, I think, but we can talk about that in a little bit.
Speaker 2:I eventually ended up working for a leader who I didn't feel should be the leader and I shouldn't even say he was leader. He was the manager of the team and I really had a number of months sitting there and recognizing that I was being asked to do things differently than were true to me and my values. I'm someone that cares about people. I truly believe if you want to drive change, you need to help them understand why we need to do things, how we're going to do it, how it's going to be different, so people can get on board and be inspired. And suddenly I was being told who cares why? Just do it.
Speaker 2:And it went against everything in my nature and my values of who I was and what I wanted to do. And I thought long and hard about it and I was working tons of hours. I had no balance between work and life. I came home miserable on a daily basis and I thought this is ridiculous, this isn't worth my health anymore, and had long conversations with my husband about it, because when you're working for a large corporation, there's a lot of financial stability, right, and it's very easy to be comfortable and stay. And finally I said I can't do this anymore. This is not who I am, what I want to be, and I need to walk away. And so I resigned after being at the company for over 13 years and decided that I was going to take a break and figure out who I was and what I needed to do.
Speaker 1:Where is that manager now? I'm always curious, right, because, to be quite candid and frank, very transparent, I've had some really bad managers along the way and they all seem to continue to do well. And to me it's almost that thing where individuals the organization knows that these individuals are not the right people for those roles, but they will keep being put forward. And for a lot of my career and I don't think I've ever shared this before, I think, as a black male my opportunities as far as I went in my career. I never expected to go as far. So there was a lot of things that I kept quiet about where I knew it wasn't right, and I think we had this conversation before in the pandemic where, like with the George Floyd incident, for instance, it wasn't the George Floyd incident that really was to shift. For me, it was how my silence it was seismic for the country and everything else, but for me it was sitting with that and then realizing that all the years that I was quiet, all the years that I didn't speak up, all the years that I accepted less than from managers, all the years that people did things that were wrong from a race perspective, from whatever perspective, and I didn't speak up, I enabled them to treat the next generations of individuals poorly, and that was so hard and so heavy for me and I think since then I've actually started speaking up in a different way or finding my voice. But it is something that I'm always curious, because only until recently did I start realizing that at some point that clock probably runs out, but I'm always curious where do those people end up? What is their end game? What is the goal? Because leadership and people leadership is something that is. It's such an honor, it's such something that you're getting to create something, you're getting to invest in people, you're getting to help them see and believe in things, be inspired. But I don't think many people actually would take it in that way. But I think maybe that's a good dovetail into so you're done with this.
Speaker 1:Now You've backed from your time off and what is coming up for you? What are you saying? I am going to create this and maybe that takes us into what is the framework of E equals Y. And, by the way, just a plug again here for you, you volunteered to take my team, my new team, through this process, or many of the teams, the new teams that I've had since then. You take us through the process. You've donated that time and I'm so grateful for it.
Speaker 1:I don't know sometimes if the teams fully appreciated what we were doing, but your the E3 leadership framework is something that I use as a table stay. If I'm preparing for a conversation or an interview, I get to go back through it and I get to kind of see okay, this is what matters to me. And what was actually pretty cool was you also helped me in that framework to prioritize what was important to me, and it was actually I think I was when I was interviewing for that job in Maine. You actually took me through that process of what was important. And what was interesting was that the money and the location fell so far below the things that I thought it would be in money.
Speaker 1:I thought it would be where I was staying, but after going through that process with you, I was willing to move to Prescott, maine, for an opportunity, and no one believes that that's six miles away from the Canadian border, right. So I always moved to Canada. I'm not going to get thinking about it, kathy. I'm not sure if I should be thankful or if I should be upset that you almost convinced me to do that, but I believe in the E3 framework, I believe in what you're doing and I'm happy like I'm excited for you to share some more of that with the audience. So go for it.
Speaker 2:Great Thanks. So the E3 framework really started during that time off when I stopped to think about okay, what is it that I might be doing different to help accomplish things? Right? How did I get into that 8%?
Speaker 2:And there's a number of different elements that are needed to all happen at the same time, and I like to use the image of a three-legged stool right, you need to have all the legs solid and then you need to have the seat, so the three legs are, first and foremost. You need to be able to express your ambition, and expressing that is what is it that you would love? Where do you want to get to? What does that look like? What does the goal look like? And really expressing it in a lot of detail. There is a mantra that I use think idealistically, not realistically, because too often we think about oh, I would love to take a step forward. Well, actually, before you worry about the steps forward, where is it that you want to end up? Where do you love? Where's that end goal? And so being able to express that end vision helps you make sure you're not missing and getting caught up in all of the little details in between, right, so it starts with expression, the end vision. Now you know where you want to get to. You know what it's going to feel like when you have the inspiration for that. Now you have to think about shall I go into engage all of the people I need to get there? And so now this gets into awareness of yourself who are you, what do you care about, what do you need? And also understanding other people. So I might be an extrovert. I learned very quickly. You were Nigel right, and so now to interact and work better together, I needed to change how I might approach different things. I needed to be respectful of how you're thinking, how you're feeling, and there's a lot of empathy there, of understanding other people, so that you can engage and work better with them. And the more people that know where you want to get to, they can help you get there. So that's why the second leg is so important engaging people around you to help you get to the end result.
Speaker 2:The third leg is around execution, and I've met a lot of people that are visionaries. They're fantastic at painting that end vision. They rally the troops and everyone gets involved and then they don't accomplish anything Because they forget that this is going to take hard work. This takes tell plans, it takes operations, it takes repetition, and it's all of that to actually execute and make sure you get to the end goal. And that's about measuring things, having milestones, et cetera. So those are the three legs to the stool to really be able to get to your end result Express, engage, execute.
Speaker 2:And then the C is what I call the emotional qualities that every leader should have in every individual, and this gets into the things around empathy, enablement, empowering others, being gracious and having gratitude, and so those emotional elements are what are the glue for that. And you need to connect to the hearts of others, and so when you look at this framework, it can be applied in so many different cases. So, nigel, as you're saying, first and foremost it's about ourselves right, being able to express who we are and how we engage with others and how we want to execute. And that's the exercise we did with your teams of creating your E3 leadership profile, right Of who are you, what do you care about, and really being vulnerable.
Speaker 2:And I know that's hard for a lot of people, but it is powerful when I watch people really sit down and do the work, because a lot of it is what are my values, what do I care about and why?
Speaker 2:What am I? Non-negotiable, what am I going to walk into and not and be willing to walk away from an opportunity Because it is contradicting? It contradicts what we really want? And so this E3 leadership profile is really focused on defining all that and so that we can share it with others. And when you can share it with others, then you can start to work better with each other. And that's the power of being able to use this framework personally. And then imagine doing this as a team and sharing those with the team and creating your team, and so it kind of goes out like a concentric circle or when you drop a pebble in and it just keeps building those ripples, that when you do it individually, you do it for your team, you do it for your function, and when you get the organizations doing it, there is so much goodness that comes out and a virtuous cycle that's created as a result.
Speaker 1:I like that. What's interesting, though, where my mind is going right, because recently I've had some challenges where I thought I enjoyed managing people and leadership, and I've been trying to figure out the why behind it. Right, what makes me gravitate towards that aspect of getting things done and I think for a long time it was that my leadership philosophy base is grounded in the fact that I will not do things that individuals did to me that I didn't appreciate, but I didn't have a guidebook, or hey, this is what you should be doing, boy. These are the things you should consider. These are the questions that you ask yourself, and I find it was so enlightening going through that process, right, because some of it was very simple, but then it was also not simplistic, if you will. What is the challenge, as you, and before we go back a little bit into you, what is the challenge that you find? Right, because this makes sense to me. So what is the biggest obstacle that you come up in trying to implement the framework in, or get leaders to adapt or adopt it?
Speaker 2:I think it's the EQI side of it, it's the emotional. A lot of people think business is business and I don't need to bring the woo-woo into it right. You often hear, oh, you can't put a big heart up on your slide and I think people are nervous about being vulnerable and that's scary for a lot of people. And I think the other part of it also the realistic side of it is I've got tasks to get done right, so they get really caught up in the execution side of things of I just I have a deadline, I don't have time for that and in reality you'll get a lot more done if you just stepped back and you looked at the bigger picture and you're worried about bringing your whole team along.
Speaker 2:But people just get caught up, and we all do. I get caught up as well. You get caught up in the whirlwind of the day-to-day activities and you need reminders of wait a minute. I need to pull back here and ask myself what are we trying to accomplish? What do we need? How are we gonna be successful? How do I inspire and enable others?
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay, I like that and I'll leave it there. But I wanna go back to you, cathy, right, so that's a big shift. That's, if you're thinking about that goal of eradicating poor leadership, right, how are you? What was that? Flipping that switch or moving, like, what were the challenges of to move in that direction? Because sometimes it's easy to envision it, but then how do you make it happen? How are you managing you to make it happen right At that point in time, like, what are those conversations you're having with yourself at that time?
Speaker 2:It was. One of the reflections was what would I do if I wasn't getting paid? And that for me was really hard, because I'm not a creative person, I'm not someone that can paint, I can't play music. I can technically play music, but I don't. I can't listen and get the beat, and things like that.
Speaker 2:So a lot of things where we think, oh, what's your passion in life? Just didn't seem tangible for me. Like it just I'm like nope, I'm an operational person. This isn't. I got nothing. I got no passion in life. And when I started to sit down and think about it, I recognized what I loved doing was talking to other people and finding out what they wanted to do and what they love to do. And I realized that, whether I get paid or not, I love inspiring and enabling people. I truly believe we have the answers within ourselves and we just need a muse almost to pull it out of us and help us bring it to fruition. And I'll tell you a story. It's a little bit of a tangent, but I'll never forget.
Speaker 2:I was in England, I was working and I was sharing an apartment over there. So I went out to dinner with my housemate and he was like oh, kat, can you get me a job at Vodafone? This would be fantastic. You're working there. You can take my resume. I'm in marketing. Can you get me a job? I really wanna work for Vodafone. And I'm like do you really? I'm like why do you? He said well, I don't know, I need a job, I just need a job and please. I said, all right, well, let's get a minute. If you could do anything in the world, what would it be? And he's like well, I have a marketing degree. So I said take a step back and, honestly, if you could do anything in the world, and he's like oh, I'd be a race car driver. And I'm like ooh, all right. Well, that might be a little tough now at this point. But we started talking about it a little more and I said well, wait a minute. You're living in England. There's a number of Formula One companies and car manufacturers in England. You have a marketing degree. Why aren't you going after those companies to bring your experience to them so that you can really live your dream? He's like all right, so this was right.
Speaker 2:Before I left to go traveling, what an amazing email I got. Six months later, he emails me. He's like chef. You'll never guess where I am. He's on the pit of a Formula One race. I am working for the marketing team and I am living my dream. And I was like, oh my God, and that was just like from a simple conversation, right. I was just asking him what would he love? I didn't do anything except pull that conversation out. And I had a lot of those conversations over my life and I'm like, wow, this is, this might be my superpower, this is fun and understanding where my passion was and what I love. I'm like, okay, that's a superpower.
Speaker 2:There's a real problem in this world where I think there's crappy managers across the board. Only 33% of people are actually engaged and enjoy their job. We know that 92% aren't accomplishing the goals. Right Now, I'm taking all this together and going what can I do? What should I? How do I leverage all this? And that's when I said I need to create a business.
Speaker 2:And I started to build this framework and I said I wanna bring this to other people and figure out how I can help businesses, you know, really improve leadership development. And that's. I have this vision. Imagine when you're gonna interview for a position. Someone had the certificate on their wall and they're an E3 leader and you knew that they used this framework and you knew that they cared about people and they had the emotional qualities. You'd be like, oh, I wanna go work for that person, right? Or imagine you're going to hire someone and you could see that, and then suddenly you're like, okay, maybe I can walk into a place and I'm gonna be in a better place, other than you're going in with a hope and a prayer, right, that you're gonna get a good leader and you're gonna have a good experience. So that's my vision and that's why I started this company and that's what motivates me on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:I'm smiling and that's awesome. I and, as you're transitioning, you found your super flower. What was your kryptonite? Right?
Speaker 2:My lack of confidence. It comes back to what we started this conversation. I have a lot of self-doubt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the self-doubt portion of it is what's interesting and I think it's really cool for the audience to hear. The self-doubt is back to the same thing that the tape that you have right, and sometimes that's not true, and these are some of the conversations that we've had, but I think in our context and in our interactions, it's just a delay in getting moving or getting the action attached to the ideas right. One of the things that was cool is that once you got moving, then you really got moving. It's like a glitch or the awareness that you had it. It was a glitch, so it was like I have this and this is what I know, this is what I'm aware of, so this is what I need to do.
Speaker 1:But running your own business is very different than a corporate setting right, and I think some of the things that we talked about was the same self-belief and the ability just to sell yourself. I think one of the challenges and I don't know if you've seen it is that I realized the stuff that I was doing the EQI stuff. It was that it was my balance, so I could have the worst day at work, but if I'm able to help someone right, I was good. So I would do the EQI work for free right. I would give it to anyone who would actually benefit from it, provided that I was making the. You know what I mean making a significant salary right that I could afford it. That's my way of giving back.
Speaker 1:But what you're passionate about doesn't necessarily equate into being able to do it well as a business right and I think sometimes we have we're passionate about the ideas but don't necessarily always face the reality of then what we're passionate about making it into a business. That's a huge leap and I think that's some of the conversations that we've had. So is there any insights that you can share with someone who's listening about what that transition is like, what that the mindset, how you manage yourself, because there's a lot more going into it than just you know. I have these thoughts or these epiphanies right. So I don't know. I don't know that's too much to ask, but maybe you can just share a little bit about again, the managing you through the transition and the growth that you're seeking in the challenges that you're working past.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a lot. I rely on my framework a lot, I'll be honest, right. So I apply it for myself and I have the envision. So really understanding, and you really have to have the passion, because if you don't have the passion and you're really doing it to just make a paycheck, it's going to be hard, right. So I think when you can start with the passion, that gets you through some of the toughest days, because what this?
Speaker 2:Starting a business requires a lot of grit, consistency and hard work. Right, it's not easy and your ego is involved on a lot of days. Because when you're starting the business, it's one thing. When you're selling someone else's products and they don't like it you know, you didn't define it well, we haven't figured out the customer problem you can put it on someone else. When you're starting your own business and you don't get it right, you're like, oh, that's all I'm made, right.
Speaker 2:So you really have to have a lot of commitment and belief that you can do it, because it's hard. And then you have to be able to really just say is there a problem? And validate that other people having a challenge that you can help with and if you can continue to validate that there's others out there that need that support, then that's you know, there's going to be good days that help propel you forward, and you're like, yep, okay, this is why I'm doing this. And when you get that review from someone, they're like, oh, my gosh, this made a huge difference. You're like, yep, I'm on the right path. All right, I'm going to put that in a jar and I'm going to hold it up, and you always want to open it up on the bad day. Keep going.
Speaker 1:But the crazy thing is that you know how the mind works is that the positive things are not as amplified as the negative things or experiences. Right and those are some of the things that we've talked about as we've gone through similar journey is the idea of how do you manage, you know, while I'm trying this new thing and I'm making these five steps forward, I believe, but it's not getting the same traction as I would like, right? And how do you so? If you know that self doubt is your thing, right? How do you then still manage you through those situations? So, yeah, you have the framework that you follow, but that's the same. You know the headline, right? What does that look like? How do you manage you? So, to have your best day, what does that look like? And don't talk about just knowing that we will speak at once a week and that's always your best day, but you know how do you? It's always it, oh, thanks.
Speaker 2:Just looking at what are the big rocks. You know what do I want to get done? And recognizing, I call it the black box, right? So that self doubt is a black box that I know sits inside of me and I have conversations with it, so don't tell we've just told a whole bunch of people it's nice.
Speaker 2:I start my morning, most mornings, with a miracle morning and I go through a structure where I talk about my affirmations and what I'm grateful for and visualizing what it is that I want to accomplish. And it really the days I don't do it and you and I have talked about it. I've gone, I've ebbed and flowed the days I don't do it or I go for long periods of time where I haven't done it. I know I'm at a wap because the self doubt talk track or that black box gets louder and louder and so I haven't tamed it. So you got to name it, to tame it, and then you got to work on making sure. Hey, I know you're there but you're just trying to knock me off because you're fearful of something else. Right, it's having that quiet time in the morning to reflect and respect what might be going on and choose the freedom to go for and know that the passion and the belief are what you want to go for.
Speaker 1:I'm smiling because one of the cool things I admired was that you and Ralph do this together, ralph's Kathy's better half husband, my favorite person in the family, which I often let her know. But one of the coolest things was to know that you guys would go through that miracle morning together and the tenets of it. I think there was one time where you shared with me the put your mask on first right, that idea of you know if you're the oxygen mask yeah.
Speaker 1:Right on the plate. So it's like I try to talk a lot about the self-care portion of it. This just highlights the importance of self-care, right? You're not going to be your best self if you're not activating practices, things that would help you to be your best self to show up in that same consistent manner. But now, kathy, how we end most of it because you were one of the first people who went through the EQI assessment with me, right, like, I think, once I was certified to do it, we then traded.
Speaker 1:So I did your clarity full of D. You did the EQI assessment. You thought that it was way too much information. You thought that it was 20 pages and it was way too much information. But we found a way for you to get through it, and I think kudos to John Hughes, right, who works on a method of debriefing that you can then follow through on. But we did a really cool thing in that you did it the first year and then we worked on things individually, back and forth, right, coaching each other in different ways, and then you did it a second year, right. So we did an evaluation a year down the road. So do you mind just taking through the audience and what you learned in that first assessment and then what came out of the second assessment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there were three main things where there was a big difference, and one of them was self-regard. That was my number one. Hey, I have an opportunity here, and you and I are always on that personal journey of how to improve and taking care of ourselves. I wasn't necessarily surprised, but to see it with the data helps. You sometimes think, oh yeah, maybe not, but this comes out with the data and you go, oh yeah, no, this is my lowest score and you helped me take it beyond just a score and saying, well, what does that mean? So how do I adjust that? So if my self-regard is not great, then what's that outcome look like? On a positive side, and it was to help others, to help see myself as others see me, and we set that as a goal right and we started working towards it.
Speaker 2:We also learned from it and I say we because, as you learned, you helped coach me right and you got a great done that with problem solving and making decisions is something that can really cause challenges for me, right, because I want to, I don't want to miss out on anything, I want to make sure I can do everything, and so it was hamstringing me sometimes of I wouldn't make a decision because I didn't want to get it wrong, and so I realized that I just have to make a decision. When I don't make a decision, that's when the problems show up, that's when I probably have more failures. I just need to make the decision and have that confidence. And it was great, right, when we looked at the report the next year, we deliberately went after fixing well, fixing, you know, focusing on these items and the numbers went up. And I mean the numbers went up across the board, right, and I truly believe by having awareness of what they were and where you are allows you then put that plan in place on how you're going to go improve them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, as you're saying, that, it's just really interesting how the self-regard and the idea on self-regard again just to refresh your audience is like it's. You would not necessarily you would beat yourself up about mistakes, so you'll probably like me, I measure five times to cut once. But that can be a lot of emotional waste and certain instances, right, if we go to that concept and then the idea of so, when you get into problem solving and you're afraid to make a mistake, what individual other individual would then experience is that you want to be right. And recently in my head I kind of flipped the switch, flipped from, you know, seeing someone as wanting to be right, as opposed, instead of saying, well, this person's afraid of making this mistake, which is a very different dynamic in itself. Right, so that is actually cool.
Speaker 1:But I like where you landed in that we can practice what we want to be, and this was kind of we were like the test group, if you will, right on seeing how we can tie action into the awareness that we were getting. One of the things I'm always fascinated about. What are you learning now about this If we just go back to leadership through self-leadership, through how you want to help people, and I know we had that conversation about the radical candor part of it or the second part of it, but can you share with the audience what are you learning now about that self-leadership, leading others? What's that green growing edge, if you will, of the work and the things that you're passionate about?
Speaker 2:Leadership. Leadership development is a journey and I think so often we think about it as a class or a one-off. I'm going to read a book or I'll get my whole team together and we'll do a one-day of the kumbaya and everyone feels great, but in reality, we all go back to our day jobs and we all get busy. So when I'm really learning and I had applied this and a number of the companies I was at as well, and that's what I'm bringing to market here is it needs to be continuous and you need to practice. When you look at the EQI and the improvements that were made throughout the year, that wasn't a one-time report and we came back a year later and hoped that it was going to be better. It was practice and it was you and I meeting every week to bring it back to fruition.
Speaker 2:That's what leadership development is. And it's an individual journey to know yourself, no others. But it's a team journey and it's about putting a lot of these practices together as a team and getting comfortable with having difficult conversations, giving feedback, being aware and calling you out. I called you an a-hole the first day I met you, but that broke a barrier pretty quickly because if we didn't go there, we would have stayed on the surface level and we wouldn't be talking today right.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny. You call me that. It was the first time someone ever said it in that way or cared enough to say it, because in my head I would shut down right Whenever I'm like okay, you don't want to do this, I go the other way. But you leaned it and I appreciate you so much for who you are and how you showed up, how you supported me, how you've believed in me and the things that I'm doing and how you've encouraged me, even on the days when I would not like you for giving me the feedback that you were giving me, and those were some good days.
Speaker 1:But I do believe that and one of the things that you shared is that and you've helped me to appreciate is that there is joy and bravery and also, once you find the thing that you love and you're doing it, there's so much things that are possible in life right, and you show up in a very different way. Things are lighter in so many ways. So I appreciate you, kathy. Thank you for taking the time to chat with us today, and if someone wanted to reach and connect with you, where would they find you?
Speaker 2:They can reach e-equals-y at wwwe-equals-ycom. We don't always get the spelling correct, and you can find me on LinkedIn as well. You're Kathy Eastwood. I have a number of videos on YouTube. We have a lot of leadership nuggets that are out there. People want some practical advice on how to improve their leadership on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 1:So I would say thank you, mrs Eastwood, and thank you Ralph, just because.
Speaker 2:That's why you like him better because he's doing it.
Speaker 1:Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, appreciate it. Bye.
