Emotional Intelligence - Plain and Practical with John Hughes

We dig into emotional intelligence as a performance skill, not a soft trait, and show how self-awareness, energy management, and clear communication change outcomes. John Hughes shares pre and post‑pandemic EQ data, live coaching moments, and practical tools to lead with clarity and care.

• four energies linking physical, emotional, mental, spiritual
• simple, repeatable self-awareness practices that stick
• how EQ‑i 2.0 reveals strengths and derailers
• pre‑pandemic confidence vs post‑pandemic drops in key skills
• empathy and assertiveness balance for clearer leadership
• inclusion as a felt experience, not a metric
• team rituals that build recognition and learning
• mood tracking tools to improve regulation and choices
• tactics to reduce overthinking and protect decision quality
• concrete steps to reset clarity on roles and deliverables

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Transcript

Why Emotional Intelligence Matters Now

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What if your success isn't just about what you know, but how well you understand yourself? What if mastering your emotions could unlock your greatest potential? Emotional intelligence, it's the skill that nobody teaches you but everyone needs. It's your ability to recognize, understand, and manage your emotions while connecting authentically with others. It's not about suppressing feelings or being overly emotional. It's about awareness, control, and using your emotions or emotional data to guide your decisions. In this episode, we'll tease out four energies that shape your emotional world. And at the heart of it all, self-awareness. The secret ingredients that turns knowledge into real life impact. Are you ready to understand yourself better? To lead with clarity? To build stronger connections? Then stay with us because what you're about to hear could be the key to unlocking your best self. Today with me, I have a repeat guest from the first season. Debbie's boyfriend, Zoe's pop-up, one of my favorite people in this whole wide world, uh, who I've come to know dearly over the last couple of years, my emotional intelligence coach, the president, in order of importance, by the way, and the president of EI assessment, Mr. John Hughes. John, welcome back to the Me Yang Podcast. Thank you very much, Nigel. Great to be back. Great to be back. I followed from your first season. I followed how you introduce yourself. Yeah. I hope I was spot on. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

If I had a business card, it would say everything like that. Husband first, you know, father, pop pop, it's all those things. I might go back to the book. You upgraded to husband from boyfriend. Yeah, yeah. That's something where when we were in high school, again, we we were paid to go out with some of the vermonts.

unknown 2:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

So it's even paid to go out for three months. So it's kind of a thing where we celebrated the fifth of every month in some 1972. In fact, we just, I guess the last time we acknowledged it was earlier this one. Oh, really? Yeah, much fit. Wow. First thing in morning, she said we have Mitch, she said, yo, happy anniversary. You missed it. It's like we're we're trying to we're trying to acknowledge the fits of the month before the other one.

From Therapy To Corporate Coaching

SPEAKER_00 2:25

I like that one. So, John, if you were to explain to the world who you are, and it's one of the things I'd like people to tell them who they are rather than me just reading accolades. Explain to the audience who's John Hughes.

Defining Emotional Intelligence Clearly

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, I I think I'm a recovering psychotherapist. Yeah, I always wanted to be a psychotherapist when I went to college and everything in graduate school. So did you know uh counseling, you know, how they did some family counseling and marital counseling. Um, and then I was fascinated by the skills, but didn't want to necessarily be a family counselor or marriage counselor, and and found a home for those skills in corporate. And that really happened in in 1995. I was working at the New York Times, and 1995 was when Dan Goldman's book came out on emotional intelligence. And all of a sudden, it gave a framework, it gave language, it gave or and it was growing, right? In fact, he after his first book, he said, I got to apply this to business. Sure, his second book was emotional intelligence and business. But he saw the potential for it because it was not only working day-to-day, but day-to-day one of day-to-day functions is leadership. So, how does emotional intelligence affect leadership? And and he he kind of grabbed the concept developed by Saladay and Mayer because they did the research up in Yale, and they were looking to unravel what are those influences that help us make decisions. And they found decisions. And so they were trying to figure out at what point do emotions, do feelings affect the way we make our decisions? To what extent? So uh it was that research that kind of leveraged Dan Goldman going forward. And Dan Goldman kind of went off and really wrote his books, but also contributed to the development of uh self-assessment that was rolled out by Hay McMahon. That was the E the ECI and the ESCI, the ESC and the A E CI. And uh both very interesting models, very good models. The end, I think they're still both out there, but they weren't Goldman's original assessments. And I have a copy of Goldman's original assessment because originally Goldman came up with the concept of emotional intelligence as competencies. In other words, he listed that the six competencies connected with empathy, right? How do you listen, listen to a higher level, listen for feeling, whatever? And he he built competencies around 15 different new types of skills. It was kind of a complicated model, it always wasn't easy to work, but I loved it. And all of a sudden, boom, it was out of the marketplace and replaced with the ESCI and the ECI. And uh again, they're they're interesting, but I I haven't had a lot of clients that have requested it.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah, you know, you know it's interesting, John. The the podcast is an extension of my passion of connecting with inspiring individuals and then taking some of the insights that they have and sharing it. Yep. So what's interesting about it, I was like, what do you do, John? How would you explain to the world who John Hughes is? And you went right into emotional intelligence. That's my insecurities, you know. I got done by something I've I know about. Okay. But all right, so what is it that you do in the emotional intelligence space? And then we'll move on to how we define emotional intelligence. Yeah. I realized that for the fourth full season of the podcast, as much as it was a podcast on emotional intelligence, rarely did we ever talk deeply about emotional intelligence. So just tell the world a little bit about who you are now and what you're currently doing.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Right now, I'm still the president of EI Assessments, which is an executive coaching firm which is focused on measuring and developing emotional intelligence skills and staff and executives and managers. It kind of goes across all different types of industries and job sets. And through that work, I've started, as you mentioned before, uncover some research collectively, what's been the impact of the pandemic over the last couple of years. It's also led me into, I'm currently a senior lecturer with Texas AM, working for their engineering department around developing emotion intelligence and engineers. And I've also a uh a adjunct instructor with the University of New England, where over last summer it created a uh a program on emotion intelligence development and its connection to leadership. It's like roots are kind of spraying out all over the place, the topic.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

I am already getting excited because I'm going, I did some research and and we both shared that book, Emotional Intelligence Habits, right? Yep. And I'm gonna go back to that soon. Before we get into it, my definition of emotional intelligence, and I'm I'm pulling some of it from in the most simply stated way from that book, Emotional Habits. And emotional intelligence is managing the conversation between the emotional part and the rational part of your brain in pursuit of excellence. That's been my new working definition of it in that all emotions are processed in the same spot, they run through the brain in the same way. So the emotional intelligence space is then developing the ability to understand the impact on emotions on oneself and at the same time understanding the impact on emotions on others. Yep. So it and again, in that same pursuit of actual excellence, it's not about being emotional, but it is about understanding emotions and being curious, being an emotional scientist, as you most recently taught me or talked to me about. So that's my definition of emotional intelligence. How do you improve that? Or how do you synthesize it in the way that would be helpful to individuals listening?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

I I like the association between emotional intelligence and energy. Okay? Emotional intelligence and energy. And I'm referring to the book The Powerful Engagement by Tony Schwartz and Jim Blair. And look at the four energies that we have. The first energy is physical energy. So I always like to know from a client how are you managing your physical energy? How are you eating, sleeping, hydrating, exercising? And I'm not a physician, but I know if you're doing those things or not, right? It's just kind of your self-reflection, those number one. So if you're doing all those things, that's gonna help your emotional energy. And emotional energy for me, it's knowing how you show up. Just like you said, it's emotional self-awareness, it's your ability to manage stress, it's your ability to connect with other people. And if I have low emotional energy, I'm gonna have a hard time doing that. If I have high emotional energy, I'll find the connections with people. I'll be able to put that high energy into empathy, into directing gift, into assertiveness and things like that. The third energy, so if my physical energy is strong, my emotional energy is strong, it's gonna help the third energy, which is described or defined as mental energy. And mental energy is your ability to make the best decisions. So if you come into work on the Monday morning and you're you had a physically drainy weekend, so you're not you're not coming into Monday morning strong, means you if your physical energy is off, it means you're not ready to start managing stress right away on a Monday. It means you're not making the best decisions. And it's gonna affect the fourth energy, which is described as spiritual energy. The spiritual energy is defined as your ability to help other people. Yes, it could be about religious spiritual energies, but I like the definition of, yeah, I want to help my family, I want to help my friends, my loved ones, I want to help my clients, I want to help, you know, fill in the blend. But but it's around emotional energy, it's the it's it's those two.

EQ-i 2.0 And Building Self-Awareness

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, I I like that, John. And I really use the same buckets, but I do believe, you know, the the me in concept again is still to be your best self from a performance perspective, is that you will manage or make investments in your physical, spiritual, yeah, and mental well-being. And I I really disassociate the mental and uh emotional energies because I I kind of go at it as one and the same. Yeah. But that is worth exploring further. You did my first EQI 2.0 assessment in 2014 or 2015. You also introduced me at the time to the book Search Inside Yourself. You know, as I've said, and if anyone's listened to the podcast before, they'll hear me say those were the turning points, at least from my perspective, in cultivating self-awareness and a big shift in how I choose to walk through the world. I appreciate the assessment tool in that it's not static, it's not based on my preferences and it gives me a different snapshot of who I am at a given point in time.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

We talked about this in the first season. Every year for the next five years, I took my assessment and it was different in some way, shape, or form. I do believe that the EQI 2.0 assessment is not based on my preferences and it follows what's happening or how my life is evolving. So I think that the tool is powerful in that way. So you use this as the basic, the basis of your self-awareness cultivation. Right. So, what how do you offer the value add of the EQI 2.0 assessment?

SPEAKER_02 11:28

From an executive coaching perspective, you know, you if if I have a client and I have an EQI report in front of me, what I like to do is be able to identify two or three developmental objectives based on that. You know, and I want to be able to validate with the client. You know, based on this, based on this profile, you don't like to give feedback. Is that true? Well, yeah, it's true. Listen, you're gonna burn yourself out. Let's talk about that. Based on this, based on the data here, you don't like to make collective decisions. You like to do uh be out there by yourself. We've got to talk about your ability to build consensus, you know, or you'd like to work alone as a work, but there's there's usually something in the data that if it's not looked at and considered, could be a derailer for a person when it comes to advancing their career. My job is to first listen to the client's story. Where have you been? Where are you right now? Where are you going? And I like to do that in the first few 10 or 15 minutes of the of the discussion. Then from there on, let me take over the data and tell you, based on what you've told me, let me tell you how the data's you're complementing your story. Or every once in a while say, listen, the data help me with the data. I'll you have to translate this for you. I'm not sure what this means. You know, so it's not as if I look at the day and I know the client 100%, I know a good chunk of what the client's all about and their strengths. And that's where I like to be able to say, how do you leverage your strengths to increase some of these other numbers? I see it as positive psychology, if you strength-based coaching, if you will. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

What made you gravitate to the tool after your career in counseling?

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Great question. At the time that came out, I was working at the New York Times. You know, it probably one of the most fascinating, intimidating environments they ever want to work in. Because I was working mostly with your senior executives, your very successful environment. I was not a newspaper guy. You know, I kind of got over there, moved over there. I when I left IBM, and I had a kind of a training and development position open. Then I just kind of slid into the job. Next thing I know, I'm I'm coaching executives. Next thing I know, I'm working with the uh with the with the head of advertising. So I really was leveraged the opportunity. It was incredible. But there was a part of learning about the job and learning about the industry that kind of challenged me every day going into that building. I mean, I was there for 15 years. Every day there was a little bit of an apostle fellow walking in there, which could I live up to the expectations of what was expected to be as a person who's been interfacing with executives every day. And in an organization that went through tremendous growth. We're talking about the early, early 90s. So newspaper, you know, the at one point the New York Times was like a toll-part paper that came out on Sunday. It was almost 2010 pieces of pay, you know, something in addition. I don't know if you remember them. They were ridiculously large. So it went from that to 1998, and boom, after 98, the advertising cliff just newspaper went off the cliff. And everything was now shifted online. You didn't make as much revenue. Remember, 1998 they celebrated a billion dollars worth of advertising revenue for the newspaper. Billion dollars. And that was last year. She after that old drop from the newspaper. And I was there during that transition, and it was tense, it was angry, it was you, you were yet competition within the organization between the online sales and newspaper sales. You know, it was it was an ugly time in a while.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

And is that when you found your way to the the EQI 2.0 assessment right around that time?

Coaching With Data: Strengths To Derailers

SPEAKER_02 14:46

It was 1997. I was I I went to the first class that they offered. I just, you know, I was that thirsty for for an assessment. So 97 is when I got certified to EQI. 98 is when they was the highest revenue advertising and then boom started going down after that. And that was when between 98 to 2008, all the work at the New York Times had done and coaching people involved in the EQI. If I could wave a wand to go back to all those people I coached back then, I wish go back and talk to them. Because I'm a far better coach now than I was back then. You know what I mean? Because I'm I saw some data. I was like a deer in the headlights. How do I tell this person they have enough happy?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

You know, majority, you know, what's interesting is that you were still doing your best, right? At the time. So you're still giving it for your aptitude, you are still giving it your best job. Yeah. I I like to think about it as, you know, as a former athlete, I like to think of the assessment as really a data-driven way of managing me. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Re how many assessments have you done? Do you know roughly how many have you done so far?

SPEAKER_02 15:49

I would estimate at least 2,500.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

At least 2,500. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

You know, that's over 2,000 since the beginning of the pandemic.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Oh wow. Yeah. That is an interesting one, right? Because I remember when we went through our our certification, and you know, the one of the things I I pride myself on being that individual who will stick to you when, you know, you say, come to me with all your question. And within the next year, I self-funded about 60 or 70 of them. And I just can't imagine how, you know, how much data that is, right? Over that time. What did you learn? What would you say before the pandemic? And I I know we've talked about this, and the pandemic is our new normal. What would you say was for the the assessment you did pre-pandemic, what were some of the key takeaways? And I remember you know, the the first time you actually spoke to all the vice presidents at at Prudential, you had a series of insights when you came into us. But what were some of the key themes that you pulled from the data pre-pandemic?

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Pre-pandemic, it was we're talking 2019, right? Sorry, up until March of 2020. I collected all the data up until then. And what it was is is wonderfully healthy. And by that I mean, you have a very strong goal-driven workforce. People knew where they were going to be in the future. They had career plans. They had, you know, to the best that they know, they could see the future out there. They knew what their goals were. You know, there was a sense of confidence in the future. It was a sense of predictability about the future. There was some professional fear, but there wasn't societal fear, you know, in a sense that we're all experiencing something pre-pandemic, right? Connections were strong, interpersonal relationships are strong, empathy was strong. So all the numbers across the board, yeah, it was it was what I would describe as emotionally intelligent, mostly emotionally healthy. And you can find pockets that are loaded, but basically looking at the collective data, boy, it's a straight light. In fact, one of the higher levels was self-actualization, which to me, people feel that they're working towards a future, that they're looking, that they're consciously working towards a future.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

So, John, you going in and sharing some concepts or some themes, some buckets. Do you mind just quickly running through what the assessment is like and some of the buckets that you just touched on? John, this is going to be your opportunity to coach me, right? Because I think you touched on some terms that I think it's important for the audience to know. So the EQI 2.0, and again, you can help me here, keep me honest. The EQI 2.0 assessment is it's subdivided self-assessment that's given in five categories with subscales in each of those five categories. The categories or the scales are your self-perception, self-expression, interpersonal relationship, problem solving, and stress tolerance. And then within those areas, this is how you your internal voice, how you express yourself, how you build and maintain interpersonal relationships, how you actually problem solve, and how you manage and tolerate stress. That's as far as I can go, John, in a semi-educated manner. Take it from there, and and how do you break it down so that let's say individuals get the vast dimensions that the assessment covers?

New York Times Lessons And Transition

SPEAKER_02 19:16

The first thing I look at, again, I'm looking at the data, you know, pre-pandemic and comparing with 2024, which is the last time I summarized it. What I did was basically put a you I mark at the end of every March. And what I do, I'll I'll take a year's worth of data from last year from March of uh 2024 to March of 2025, and I'll summarize again to see if there's been any changes. From my perspective, the biggest changes, number one, is around again self-actualization, that's that view of a future. It's something I'm going to be doing differently after. And what's really scary in a way is that somebody's scores have dropped, and I don't see any movement in a positive direction. I also see a drop in self-regard, the person's inner voice. There's a lot of people that carry around a lot of inner doubts about the future. We're going back to your pre-election, okay? This is before the current, you know, your presidential administration. This is how people were feeling. You know, up until March of last year, there were there was a an increase in the imposter syndrome in the way. And by that in there in many ways. And by that, I mean pre-pandemic, there was also a level of a level of authenticity that you find among a lot of leaders. Where now, because of all the changes, people are feeling that imposter piece because there's a certain amount of change, a certain amount of uh of discomfort that they're anticipating. And as you said before, we're all experiencing the imposter syndrome. I'd say it's almost, it's an 80% is high. I would say people are even cycling through, even they're having to deal with more change. Every time there's a change out there, there's another opportunity for me to question myself, question my competency. And that's all that negativity that uh that people associate with change.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

How do you define the imposter syndrome? Because I know a lot of people hear about it, but how would you define the imposter syndrome?

SPEAKER_02 21:05

And from an EQI standpoint, it's showing up really strong. Okay, showing up, you know, again, uh, I'll call myself as an imposter going into the New York Times. Boy, for 15 years, most of the time I wore a suit, I had a tie, white shirt, I walked in there, I kept all my white shirts on my BM. I walk in there, I felt confident, I looked like an executive. You know, so emotional self-awareness is there, my my presence is there, my strength, my confidence is there externally, internally, my self-regard is hey, I don't know the newspaper business. I'll answer me, ask me something that I can't answer. You know, it was that kind of that's the apostrophe. And when you think of pick some per a person doing a job, a person moving from one organization to another, that's where they start to feel that doubt. You know, but but regardless of the self-doubt, you still gotta keep moving forward. So that's that's what this that's the challenge of the apostasy.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

But it's a great statistic that 80% or so of us do at some point in time experience the imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went back to the original uh article that they wrote, which was back in the 70s, I believe. And it was at a time where I think there was a lot of white men that were threatened by women and professionals of color coming into the workforce. So they needed something to push back by this level of assertiveness that they think they can compete with white guys. So they came up with this the apostas syndrome. The women, the women who called it the apostasy syndrome, if they said if I could go back in time and rename it, it and I would call it something else. I called the, they said they would call it the imposter experience because it's not a syndrome, it's not a mental health issue. It was making it sound if I'm a woman who wants to move their career forward, I need a mental health intervention. There's that labeling of the apostas syndrome that I still use. It's unfortunate, but that's what people connect with. When they talk about insecurities, they talk about being impostors.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

So we're going back into it. So loss of connection, that internal voice, pre-pandemic, any other key insights coming from that data? And then maybe we transition into what's showing up now with a bunch of individuals being asked to return to work, et cetera.

Pre‑Pandemic EI Trends And Health

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Yeah, right now you also see uh a big drop in uh independence. You see a big drop in emotional expression, a big drop in interpersonal relationship skills because some people thrive in an interpersonal environment. Most work environments are designed for extroverts. So if I'm an extrovert, high interpersonal skills, uh, you know, being at home working remotely during this time is kind of pushing back on my ability to connect with people. And you see you see, you see a drop. Well, what remained high was social responsibility, the ability to build consensus. Because that was one area you see this drop in independence, which means people are making fewer independent decisions around business, they're making more collaborative, more consensus decisions. You know, so if you're not if you're not a good consensus collaborator, you're gonna have trouble in today's new professional environment because that's what it's expected to. You also see a drop in problem solving and a drop in reality testing. Where does it come from? Reality testing is about questioning. And if the environment is constantly questioning every day throughout the pandemic, think of those mornings you woke up, you didn't know what was going to happen today. You know, you didn't know from work, from a from a medical standpoint, from a social standpoint, you didn't know what was acceptable. So the burnout was there. Yeah, and optimism, not a surprise. Optimism was lower as well as stress tolerance. So these are the scores that, from what I've seen, again, we haven't bounced back from yet.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

And so that's a little bit about what's happening since then. Right. Like what's been happening since the pandemic. So it's almost like a loss of identity, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

I would say yes, because yes, and identity is very, very important. I remember the day after I left the New York Times. My corporate identity was I'm an executive of the New York Times. I'm a and the day I left the New York Times, what was my identity? That was the day I got my first business card printed because I needed to be able to say, well, am I?

SPEAKER_00 25:04

It makes sense, right? So if you take all of that, how does, and and I have a already have a transition, but how does a company, how does one support their employees to be better, let's say, coming out of the pandemic? Now we have all of the work from home stuff being mixed, right? Yep. What can companies do to support their their employees?

SPEAKER_02 25:30

They need to look at what is influencing their decisions. If your decision is being influenced because someone in Washington, D.C. has decided their federal staff has to be in five days a week, I think you have to question that influence. Is that influence the best thing for your people? Well, because we went through this long tunnel with the pandemic, and a lot of organizations learned a lot. And a lot of these cultures have been fantastic the way they've gotten through them. And I remember one exactly saying, I want everyone back to work. I want to get back to the old culture. The old culture. What do you want to get back to? People have to learn, they've developed your remote skills. Your business, by the way, is thriving. Why do you want to get back to what you think? Because I want to see my people again. Because I don't like this remote thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

In the pandemic, you know, one of the companies I worked at, the the senior executive or the CEO had never been home since 1996. And now he's at home and wants to go back to work because he hasn't like it at home. Oh, yeah. His new normal was to be outside. But there is an opportunity to support the staff just based on the data. So if you had the one top opportunity, like I want to make sure my team is okay, that they feel that I fully support them, what is that one emotionally intelligent thing that you would say I might be able to do?

Inside The EQ-i Model And Scales

SPEAKER_02 27:00

I think number one is listen. You know, and what I've seen, you're based on the data, based on the organization, you're based on the industry, some managers pride themselves on their ability to tell in direct. In fact, some of my biggest breakthroughs with executives is what I've said, listen, based on these HQY schools, I would want to work for you. Why do you say that? Because your empathy is 85 and your assertiveness is 112, and your impulse control is here is 100, which means that you're gonna you gotta say something, you're gonna put it out there. And I would say that you're not interested in my opinion. I don't think I'd want to work with you or for you. And I've said that to clients. Yeah, look at the data. And what's it like? You know, I said this data tells me you cut people off. You you you're the kind of person that you grave the microphone out of people's hands. Is that true? I'd ask the executives. Listen, be honest with me. Have you ever cut people off from finishing their statements? Do you do that? Yeah, I do. Okay, well, there it is. Your service is higher than your empathy. Is that okay for you? It's okay for some of them. Well then find it. That's why someone like me wouldn't want to work for you because all you do is so indirect and you're not looking to compromise and learn and things like that. Always interesting how adults learn. I think that's the other thing. I'm always fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yeah, I think I think that is a fascinating one, right? We can carry so easily things from one experience to another without fully stopping or taking stock that we are actually not in that same place anymore and probably don't need to reply or respond as if we're in that same place. That is a good one. Is there anything else that you'd want to share?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

The one thing I find fascinating about emotional self-awareness, because one of the things you do with a client is you want to make sure that you're constantly contributing to your emotional self-awareness. My standard question is Do you ever practice deep breathing, meditation, yoga, tai chi? Do you do any of those? And now what I'm starting to hear is yeah, I used to do that during the pandemic. Oh, do you do it anymore? Response is no. So my follow-up was, how did you feel when you did that during the pandemic? And the response is I felt great. Well, if you did something that made you feel good, why don't you continue to do it?

SPEAKER_00 29:23

So, John, and I appreciate the sharing of data between the pre-pandemic and post-pandemic. Is there any insights or anything that that's significant that you're learning that you're helping clients with in that same way?

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Clients have been very open to the data, to having these discussions. There's there's a couple of particular things. It comes down to emotional self awareness. It comes down to the ability to know you how you connect with the culture, how you use your power, how you feel about accomplishing what you're able to do within the Organization. So emotional self-awareness, I see kind of as one of those anchor scores where the person increases their emotional self-awareness, I tend to also see increases in empathy. Because the concept here is the better I understand myself with awareness, the better I can understand you. What's interesting is emotional self-awareness seems to have dropped a little bit more than empathy. But almost across the board, all of our compared to pre-pandemic, all of our emotional intelligence skills have dropped a bit. And why do you think that is? I think because we have all experienced a pandemic that has left us either feeling as uh either stronger or weaker. You mean and either we feel we either we're victims or we're leaders. They just naturally fall into a victim mentality. Well wow. Okay. The pandemic happened to me. It didn't happen to happen to me. Happened to all of us. No, no, no, it happened to me. Every time it happened to me, they have the ability just to kind of focus on themselves as to focus on everybody else. You know, so that's a dynamic that you know sometimes you can't take for granted. Some people just don't see that.

What Dropped Post‑Pandemic And Why

SPEAKER_00 31:07

From an emotional self-awareness perspective, is there any any other insight that you have gleaned from that portion of it, right? So in the pandemic, we're at home, everyone was walking, everyone was outside, you know, people were finding yoga. Any insights there on how that is being impacted?

SPEAKER_02 31:27

There was a national and growing, almost international acknowledgement that we are under stress. Genome's been thrown out the window. The pandemic has changed all the rules. The pandemic has introduced a level of fear, a level of sadness because of all the deaths, a level of anger, right? So all these very strong emotions were bubbling all over the place. And whether or not it was a uh either mental health professionals right up into AUHR professionals saying, we got to take care of our workforce. Well, how do you do that? You take it's emotional self-awareness, it's it's deep breathing, it's meditating, it's yoga, it's tai chi, it's doing something to spend some time with yourself to get yourself renewed. You know, sometimes people do it first thing in the morning and they start the day off very strong. But but the recommendations back there is you have to take care of yourself before you take care of it. That was it in 2020, 21, 22, 23. And all of a sudden that's kind of slacked off. I know a lot of people, like I said, they used to do it, but they don't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

So say that again. Spend some time with yourself.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

I I think what has to happen is that you need some time every day to think about, to think about today, to think about what you mean. And you're early in the morning, the better. Yeah, I'd like to have a little self-reflection to start the day, oh. And yes, you know, what do you have? What do you appreciate? One of those things that have happened to you, call it luck, call it, you know, kisma, call it whatever. But yeah, as a result, you're you're having a pretty good life like that right now. That's acknowledgement. And then looking out on how you want your day to go, how I want the week to go. I look into the future sometimes, where I want to be a year from now, two years from. And that's where I start my day. And that's what's going to get me phoned. And that's that's what I recommend to people. Healthy executives activate their brains before they get out of bed in the morning in a positive way. They embrace the day. Just like Olympic athletes that embrace the day when they get out of bed. They activate their brains thinking about their workout. They activate their bodies thinking about their competition. So the time they get out, you do whatever they do, they're fully engaged, right? There's something about that where it starts getting out of bed. I had one executive, I asked him, what do you say to yourself when you get out of bed tomorrow? This guy curses. Did you say that to yourself? You know, you're like you're all by yourself, you're cursing at yourself. That's a threat to the day. Can we find something more positive to say? You know? Just you know you're entitled to a good day. It's gonna be a great day. Give it your best shot, even something was gonna be carpe diem, right? For the 15 years I've worked at the New York Times, it's always carpe diem.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Seize the day. A quick pause. If you're finding this conversation and emotional intelligence valuable, imagine what could happen if you put these insights into practice. Take a moment to reflect. Which of the four energies do you think shows up most actively in your daily life? And how might greater self-awareness help you lead, connect, and grow? If you're enjoying the episode, don't forget to subscribe, share with a friend or colleague, and let us know your thoughts. Now back to the conversation. Is there a reason why you think it's now it went high and is now going backwards?

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Well, I think the level of stress has dropped because people are back at work, people going back five days a week, people planning vacations, kids are back in school, you know, so there's a certain amount of normalcy that's returned, but we're working in a new administration, and this new administration is known for disruption.

Return To Office, Identity, And Support

SPEAKER_00 35:10

That's what I was gonna say. If we were going back to a new normal, and this is a good segue into all the social stuff that's happening, all the stuff that's happening in Washington now, and how it's impacting all of us. But if we were going back to a new normal, that, you know, I guess agents of chaos that's actually there. It's now another new normal. Yeah. Where all of those skills are coming back front and center, right? Yes, yep. That understanding yourself, checking in with yourself. Yep. It was maybe three weeks into the new administration, and I was telling a friend, I was like, well, we're just shy of a month, but we have another three years and 11 months to go. Yep. So buckle up, right? So we're still early. Yep. So what would you say? And and just segue into this with all the stuff that's happening now in the social landscape, the the deconstruction of the D and I efforts and everything else. What do you what do you think about that? What do you think is is behind that? What do you think is driving that from an emotional intelligence perspective?

SPEAKER_02 36:18

It's this emotional detachment of how these changes are influencing real people. It's it's just that simple. You're making major changes to major agencies that have taken years to be formed to get to a certain level of influence out there in American society that I think are doing, supposedly doing good work. And if they're not doing good work, then surgically remove them. But this concept of a billionaire walking around a stage with a chainsaw to be able to make us uh you know a better contact, it just doesn't add up for me. So what it does is it creates anxiety, it creates a I think a feeling of what am I watching here? This this is surreal. This is not this this is not what I've what I voted for. This is not what what you know people died for the years gone by. This is not what I want my my kids to live with, my granddaughter to live under. There's this real sense of of honest dysfunction. What's driving it? I'm number one word. I think it's great. It's money.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

I listen, John, I joke about this, and it's actually really interesting in that you know, so many of us are not necessarily impacted directly by what's happening, and it's easy to be apathetic to it, right? I think when we were in our in our coaches' um round table, one of the things that you brought up was that detachment of leaders from what's actually happening in the workforce or what's actually happening around them and how that can actually lead us astray, right? Yep. I think that is something that is so important to be mindful of. Yep. Because you know, you don't just see it in Washington, you see it in many of the organizations that we work in. There are some leaders who are just detached from the reality of the day-to-day interactions and what everyone else is doing, right? So and I don't know, that's the concept that's in my head. What what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 38:10

It's funny you to survive in this world, you need a level of detachment sometimes. Right. Particularly being a natural empath. I've had empathy, I have a very strong level of empathy. So sometimes when I'm seeing something, you know, I just see somebody crying, I just well love myself. It's just something that's always been part of me. So take that, take that tendency and put me in an environment where I have to terminate someone for theft. And that person starts crying. Do I cry? No, I don't. It's a different emotional detachment there. You've done this to yourself, you got yourself fired for theft. You can cry, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sympathize with you. But but if you're a pet owner like me and your dog is dying up kids, I'm gonna, man, you can don't tell me that story, and it's gonna fill up. You know, it does there's certain emotional connections that you allow yourself to me.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

So then how do you think that emotional intelligence as as leaders, as people, as we're interacting with each other, how do you think that we can then contribute to a more inclusive environment?

SPEAKER_02 39:10

First of all, you have to, if you're ahead of an organization or ahead of a corporation, you have to want an inclusive environment, right? You have to go out there and determine what is what does being inclusive mean to you? What does it look like? How does it show up within the organization? And that to me is the distinction between diversity and inclusion, right? If I had to pick one of them, I'm just thinking this out loud for the first time, so I don't know what we're gonna say. But if I had to champion one of them, I'd rather champion inclusion than diversity. Because I can see diversity out there. You can have a wonderfully diverse workforce, and your turnover can be 100% every three months, right? That's not inclusivity. Now, now I may not see diversity out there, but if people feel engaged and they're growing and then they're they're they have the vision of the organization behind them, it that's incredible, and that's being inclusive.

Leading With Listening Over Telling

SPEAKER_00 40:01

I don't know if you remember this, right? But you know, you presented that idea to me two years ago. I was preparing for a talk at a conference, and just so the audience knows, whenever I talk about emotional intelligence or anything else that's in the HR space, John's my hype man, John's the person who looks at my presentation and gives me new ideas. And you actually did talk about these that you did share that time that diversity is something that you can see, and inclusivity is something that you would feel. Yeah. And I actually used that in that in that presentation, and I I I did take full credit for it, John. I did not give you any credit for it. But just so you know, I saw it from somebody else, I'm sure. Okay, all right. So then we're then then we're good. So you're saying that leaders, you know, it starts from the top, but let's say I'm a middle manager and I'm still leading people. Yep. I I think one of the the the interesting things that I think that a lot of the emotional intelligence work, a lot of the personal development work are conversations and self-leadership. So is there just any insights that you can share on how we can actually, in a day-to-day interactions, make that effort to be more inclusive? I would say empathy. What would you say?

SPEAKER_02 41:19

If I'm the leader of an organization, I always like having your clarity as to who's doing what. Yeah, it's similar to when I take on a new client. I take on a new client. First thing I want to know is you know, do you have the best people? Do they know their roles or responsibilities? They know how to make decisions. Kind of the nuts and bolts of a business. You know, and one of my favorite activities is for you, it's a team of seven people. Everyone takes a flip chart. And on your flip chart, what don't you write down your roles and responsibilities, those things that you, what are your deliverables? Then what you write down the decisions that you make. And then once you write down what are those activities that you don't like to do, and what are those activities you wish you could do? You know, so fill it up on a flip chart, and then everyone walk around the room and read each other's flip chart. And then when you're ready, everyone's going to present the content in the flip chart and answer any questions. Because what that builds is it builds clarity as to who's doing what on our team, who's responsible for what? Who's responsible for what decisions need to be made? You know, so there's always some business basics that have to be revisited. You know, and that's with you setting the right roles and objectives for the team with the best people.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

In this current time, what's something that you think, from an emotional intelligence perspective, that a leader, and not the CEO at the top of the house, but what a leader can actually do to create that more inclusive environment? And what's that one insight that you think it would be?

SPEAKER_02 42:49

I think there has to be um listening opportunities. Because what everyone's experiencing, you know, just like during the pandemic, it's new to them. And those leaders that are creating some listening space, you're checking in with their people. You know, if you remember the pandemic, you at the end being for initial months of the pandemic, there was a Friday afternoon kind of get together, or there was some kind of social event that was there. And that faded off as it should have. You know, it was kind of thing was artificial sometimes, and people don't want to keep it up. But there's something to be said for, checking in with your people. Right. You know, so I think getting down to ground level as an executive to know how your people are dealing with things, particularly with some industries that are being again affected by Washington right now. You know, there are some decisions. Some organizations don't know what to what decisions to make right now because they're not sure how how tariffs and everything else are going to be affecting them. You know, so that's gonna have a ripple effect of anxiety within the environment. So I think executives need to be really focused on what's the break point with this anxiety? At what point are these distractions going to hurt the business? Because it's gonna undermine our potential.

Daily Practices That Actually Help

SPEAKER_00 44:01

The important part of that conversation, right? We're still many of us doing knowledge work, the more at ease the nervous system is, the better people would actually perform, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:14

I think people also want to know levels of influence. If you wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden, you have to be in there five days a week, you're night to five. First question would be why? Why are we doing this? You know, and if someone says to you, well, you know, because you know, in the administration, you know, it doesn't feel people should work remote, how are you gonna feel?

SPEAKER_00 44:32

I think a lot of people are uh wrestling with that now, right? And the pandemic forced on us a new normal that now people are asking us to move back in the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

I'm gonna say the pandemic forced learning on us. It forced us to learn, it forced us to do things differently. And some organizations have stayed with that and learn. Other organizations want to get back to where they were pre-20. Why? You you have I I I've seen the numbers. I've talked to the organizations, organizations like Biogen, you know, for the in the pharmaceutical industry.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

It hasn't pulled back to it, wasn't pulled back during the pandemic. That's what's interesting, right? So about the whole emotional intelligence conversation, there's so much happening. Return to work, the DI portion of it, the fear about what's actually coming down the pike with the new administration. Yeah, what advice would you give from that emotional intelligence standpoint to manage through such a charge atmosphere?

SPEAKER_02 45:37

I I would say was part of this syndrome in Washington is to get people to disengage. Part of it, because I don't know anyone who knows everything that's going on everywhere. It's just every industry. You can't. You can't possibly say, I need a full-time job to stay on top of all the craziness that's going on out there. My definition of craziness is change without reason. That to me is that's that's my definition of craziness.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

So when I'm seeing coming into Washington, it's crazy. That's an interesting one, right? Managing change is one of the ways to actually stabilize our nervous system because what's a lot of what's happening now, we won't have a choice in. So it's out of outside a locus of control. Yeah, but we still have to actually move on, right? So yeah, I think that dovetails really good end for us too. So I I now we uh we say emotional intelligence is important to managing you through change. If someone wanted to go out to start cultivating their emotional intelligence, what is that foundational first step?

Disruption, Detachment, And Inclusion

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Yeah, I'm always gonna pivot back to once I create clarity for the future, where I want to be in the future, where do I want to be three months, six months, a year from now? I have to have that conversation with myself. I don't have to have that validator with people who are going to be among my personal board of directors. Who are those people I can go to for feedback? Who are those people I can go to to support? You sometimes it's called a circle of support, sometimes it's called a network. You always like the board of directors concept because these are people that are there for me. You have to have a board of directors. I would probably say back during the pandemic, yes, people I have board of directors, they would tell you who they who their go-to people were. Well, they've lost that little bit. So I think right now you need to kind of you kick up the networking as well. You stay in touch with your industry because a lot of industries are under fire right now. You know, for self-so for self-inflicted you tower, tariff wounds, from what I can see, right? So so that's why there's a level of logical intellectual insult that's there. Why are we doing terror? Why are we doing this to ourselves? Why are you reducing USAID across the world? Why are you people putting people at risk? What what's what's the listening? Why are you ruining the reputation of the United States? What's the reason? And no one has given that to me. I haven't heard from anybody. Well, I hear it's a lot of bullying going on, but no logic. I think that's the thing that they're really as much as I appreciate emotion, I'm I'm missing the logic to what's going on there. And I know motion alone, it's dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

So the foundational part of it, then you would say, is understanding curiosity, having a direction, and not retreating from what's happening now, but leaning in more to others, right? So it's that not become becoming reclusive, if you will, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Curiosity is incredibly important. I think curiosity is the difference between having a fixed mindset and a growth mindset.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Someone with a fixed mindset knows everything. They're not curious. So it's not throwing your hands up because everyone hears you know a growth mindset and a fixed mindset, it's tossed around often. I in my head, it's uh it's it's what I say many athletes would understand because they wake up every day trying to be a little bit better than they were yesterday. Yeah. In your context, what is that growth mindset and how do you see it playing into just all the stresses and the professional upheaval, the shift in demands that we would have, because there is a significant amount of change that's happening. How do you then instill that growth mindset? You said curiosity, is there a practical tool?

SPEAKER_02 49:15

I actually had a client recently who acknowledged that 10 years ago and had a fixed mindset. They knew everything. They pushed back when they got feedback from someone, they didn't listen to the feedback, they attacked the person giving them the feedback, right? He tended to over over shout people. He was loud. He said, Well, when I look back on all these behaviors, they were really, they were fixed. And I thought I was, you know, I was successful, I was making money. Now all of a sudden, these behaviors are playing against me because now I want to get into senior manager. That doesn't work for people that that style. So he said, I had to realize I had to give him my fixed approach to leadership. I realized I had to shift towards more growth. And part of the difference from fixed to growth was he took an EQI and I had a conversation with them. Look at that empathy score. You're shutting people down, you're talking over people, you're not getting the best out of you. But we had a great conversation, and he credits that with kind of shifting towards your growth mindset. Where now he had to listen to my feedback because he wasn't gonna listen to my feedback. I didn't get another customer who will.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

So what's interesting is that not a lot of people listen, right? I think if you find yourself in a certain point in life, we become entrenched, right? Yeah. And entrenched in our thinking and entrenched in our belief system, especially if we're successful. Yep. It's the people who actually will continue to seek it out without hitting the wall. I find that that part of the population is really, really small, right? Yep, yep. Yep. You know, so that that's just my thinking and some of the work that I'm doing. What are some of the concepts and new things in the emotional intelligence space that you are exploring now? What are you learning? Back to that same curiosity, growth mindset. What are you learning about emotional intelligence that has you excited?

SPEAKER_02 50:57

What I like is the intersection with technology right now. And by that I mean I've uh I don't use many apps. I have a couple apps on my iPhone, but I found one that I definitely recommend. The name of the app is How We Feel. And it was developed by Yale School of Emotional Intelligence. And what you do is you set it for a couple of times a day, you know, once or twice, three, whatever, and it checks into you say, Hey, how are you feeling? And when you check into it, it gives you a graph of different words so you can kind of put in the how you're what you're experiencing in the moment and why. And it starts to track over the week or month you exactly how you've been feeling, your highs and lows. It also offers some resources like deep breathing exercises, things like that. I found you're really sure very powerful, very accessible. So to me, that's something because of what it does, it reinforces emotional self-awareness, which is that cornerstone skill that every executive you needs to have, every leader needs to have, you know, knowing how you show up, knowing the kind of culture that you're creating, knowing the kind of culture you want to create and moving in that direction.

Practical Inclusion For Middle Managers

SPEAKER_00 51:56

That is a really that is a really good one. You you actually introduced me to the idea of how do you feel as checking into yourself with yourself. And if, you know, one of the things now I start with, how do you feel at most of my presentations, yep, and is the nuanced part of life is much more much more complex than happy, sad, or mad. Right? Yep. And you know that that mood wheel is something that you are now near and dear to. You want to just go a little bit into the mood wheel because how you feel is so important in how you show up. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

It's your calling card. Yeah, people read that right off for you. They they they could read that level of confidence or they read that approachability, or like around interpersonal skills, right? You how approachable are you? You know, I I met some some professors in college, how's professors? And I said, listen, your interpersonal skills are really low, and your service is really high, and your empathy is really low. He says, What does that say about me? It says that you don't like people coming up to you. You don't like being approached, goes, Yeah, that's right. I said, You're a college professor doesn't like being approached? Yeah, that's right. And you also looks like you create fear in your classes. That's your yeah, I like my students to be afraid of me. So, well, tell me, Professor, how does you how do you by by you creating fear among your students, how does that help the learning process?

SPEAKER_00 53:18

It's so interesting that you know, when we talk about self-awareness, how much of us we we are doing so many things and it's it's consistent and we never want to see how we can be better or even be open to feedback that's coming the other way. One of the things that we have on the podcast and how it actually goes is that we want to spend the last quarter of the podcast helping individuals. I want to help individuals improve their emotional intelligence, show up with it. So today I'll flip it around. I'm not gonna coach you, John, but you get the coaching real time. We're going through something at work here now. And I went back to my was having some challenges, and I felt that the team, let's say, wasn't as responsive as I needed them to be. Right. And I was getting frustrated. So on that mood meter, I found myself, you know, uh high in energy but low in pleasantness, okay, right? Yeah in some of the interaction. And then I realized that in reflecting on it, I wanted to make sure I had a constructive conversation with the team. I realized that I was high on emotional self-awareness. So I know what I was feeling, but I wasn't expressing it well at the same level. I didn't have a constructive way, constructive way enough to share what I was feeling. I was, I'm a poker player, right? Like I think for years we had talked about this, that I prided myself on not having individuals know how I'm feeling, not seeing it on my face. I also care a lot about the team. Uh, so my empathy was higher. Like, I know we're all going through some interesting times. Everyone's stressed, someone's new to the job. So I wasn't being as assertive as I would need to be. I wasn't speaking up. I wasn't asking for what I needed. So I want to go through this exercise with the team where as we go through any cycle, we're going to go with what we learned and one thing we would actually improve for the next cycle. So you're hearing these things, John. What's your feedback for me as the things that I can work on? I I did check in with my assessment, and you know, that is, you know, some of those subscales are are structured in that way that it makes sense what I just said. What what do you what do you share with me?

SPEAKER_02 55:49

How often do you meet with the team? Just out of curiosity. How often do you guys get together physically or virtually?

SPEAKER_00 55:55

We're together maybe once every few weeks. Um, but we are on virtually all the time.

Curiosity And Shifting To Growth Mindset

SPEAKER_02 56:00

It might be interesting to ask two questions of the team. Okay, since you meet, let's say you meet once a month. Okay. The first question for the team, and you're going to answer these questions. First question is when you look back on the last month since we last met, what's one or two things that you're really proud of that you've done for the team, for the company, for the customer, for the client? There's two or three things that you can think of that you're proud of. Okay? Everyone got that question? I'm Nigel, I'll start. You know, since we met last month, I did this, I'm really proud of it, and that I'm really proud of it. You know? And go around the table. Mary, what are you proud of? What have you done? You and people might be looking at you, why are we doing this? You kind of think, and you say, Yep, come on. You might remind people of what they did well that they may have forgotten about. Right? Go around the table. And when you finish, you might say to everyone, listen, that's a moment of celebration. That's a moment of acknowledging that we do good things on this team. And we need to really stop every once in a while and acknowledge it. Right? It's encouraging the heart. One of those new concepts is now to do the second question. The second question, if you reflect back on the time that you've spent since our last meeting, what's two or three things that if you could do, you could you'd like to be able to do them over again? Okay? So if reflect on last month, list two or three things that if you could, you'd like to do over again. Now, if I had yesterday to do over again, there's a couple things I would have done differently, right? Now, all right? I just think so. You go first, or let me tell you, if I had to do last month over again, I would have done this differently versus that for the business. Or I learned I would have done that versus that. Let's go around the table again. What would you have done differently? What would you have done? And everyone tells you what they would have done. I would say that's a moment of learning for the team. That's a moment of me telling you what I would have done differently in a safe environment, which I think what we want as team leaders. We want people to be able to share their learning without any kind of repercussions. We talk about it, but we never kind of demonstrate it. Right? And that's that's just another that's a that's a team culture thing. You know, it's also a great feedback list. So feedback, you approach, you come into my office and you give me a report, and I'm not, you know, there's a couple things off. I see, Nigel, what do you think it did really well pulling this report together? And Nigel, if you had to do this report over again, what would you do differently? You know, that's an opportunity to talk about your performance, it's supposed to be telling you something. Because people like to talk, they like to engage. You know, so those are ways of then that's a culture for the team. But it it but again, celebration and and those types of acknowledgments, I mean, that that's something I think every team could could use a little bit more. Because everyone likes that kind of recognition.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

I like that, right? So I'm actually gonna do that. So we get those two things, and then so that's for the team. So we get that, we cultivate that self-awareness. But anything that I can do with the profile that I just showed you, right? Yeah, with the stuff that I just shared with you on how I would actually develop some of those things.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

What are is your opportunity when you meet with them one-on-one to talk about career, to talk about assignments, to talk about or whatever? You might go in with a little bit of a openness towards feedback. You might wonder one or two questions. First question is listen, you're can you come into my office? John, listen, I'm doing a little feedback circle. I do this every couple of months, or I'm going to start doing it now. Tell me something that I've done really well over the last couple of months. What? Yeah, tell me something I've done really well in terms of the job and working for you. Yeah, tell me something I could have done differently. I could have done better from your perspective. Same concept. Right. But going one-on-one with people. I want to make sure that the environment is. I want to be open and sincere about it. And if I said, well, naturally can't think about it. Well, John, listen, I'm going to come back again. I want you to think about it. Because you're you're one of people, you're one of my touchstones for feedback. That's why organizations hire people, I guess, to come in and ask those questions.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

I think though, what I was trying to get from you, John, and let me make sure I mark it down. In that personal part of it, so I what I said was the poker player, the poker. Too high on empathy, low on emotional expression, high on emotional self-awareness, and then low on assertiveness. So I was going, is that was there anything that's particular that you can actually guide me to for that, right? For that issue that I would have, right? So that's where I was going. So if you wanted to like reframe it and give me a little bit of guidance around that, then that would be amazing.

Tech Meets EI: Mood Tracking Tools

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

So so part of it, I think, I think it always comes down to my mind the relationship between empathy and assertiveness, right? Empathy is your ability to take it in. Assertiveness is your ability to speak up, to guide, to direct. So your tendency is to be high on empathy but low on assertiveness. You're not going to be out, you your preference is not to necessarily direct them. You're there not standing over you. You're there to develop their critical thinking and to for them to do some independent problem solving decision making. So there's a part of you that's looking for constantly looking for that downs between empathy and assertiveness. Now, when it comes down to them, I think the assertiveness might part of the way the assertiveness may manifest itself is they may not be clear on what you expect from them. So it's worth checking in on the clarity that they have towards the goals. My ask them a simple question. John, on the scale of what to 10, 10 being very high, how clear are your are you on your deliverables between now and the end of the year?

unknown 1:01:27

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Well, number seven. Okay, let's talk it because I gotta get you up to a 10.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Or number two. But but try to quantify the range a little bit because it gives you a starting point.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

So simply stated, work on being more clear with what I would uh require of them. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

Because by you giving me that clarity, then you have to then you have to study me. Because if you're saying, okay, here's the clarity, John, here's what I want you to deliver over the next couple of months, as you're giving me the assignment, you're watching me.

unknown 1:02:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:02

And you're watching me in a way that's gonna that's where the empathy comes in. Because you want to ask yourself, is John gonna be successful with this? Am I picking up a successful vibe here? Or is John wiping his head? Is he is he disengaged? Is he doing other things as I'm giving him this assignment? What am I picking up to ensure he's going to be successful here? So what somehow I just do the dump and run. Here's your assignment. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

How do I know you're gonna be successful? I got you on that one. If the listeners wanted to contact you, how how do they find you?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

Probably LinkedIn is perhaps the easiest way, you know, but they can contact you and you can get that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

I will make sure in the show notes we we will put it in there and how they would find you. But but that's the one way. Any thoughts that you would want to leave uh the audience with about the importance of emotional intelligence today?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

I I think unfortunately you have to anticipate a level of stress. It's almost as if, and again, I go back to that intellectual logical insult. There are things being done nationally that don't make sense, right? So you have to monitor your input, you have to listen to the news, but I think you also have to stay connected to other people. And that's where there's a similarity between what's going on in Washington and the pandemic, because you you don't have control, and everything is something's going to be worse tomorrow. We haven't seen the worst of it yet, I think is what we're looking at, what we're dealing with right now. Which means that that we have to go back to those stress tolerance, your emotional self-awareness, uh, mindfulness techniques that people use during the pandemic. The reason I said it, because I've been using it myself. You know, how you when I wake up in the morning, I start to think about all the people that are suffering out there, like, man, see, okay, how do I can I take care of yourself? I can only affect my whole life right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

I like that, right? So you you back to the the where you started was making sure that you practice the right self-care so that you can go out and achieve, accomplish the things that you would want to do. Any resources, I think you know, one of the game changers for me was the book Search Inside Yourself. But any new resources that you're finding that you would want to recommend to the audience.

Live Coaching: Balance Empathy And Clarity

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Yeah, this came out two years ago. It came out in 2022, Stop Overthinking, by Nick Trent. I keep it right next to me because I meet a lot of executives, right? They have high don't we're talking about the imposter thing. I show very strong, but I got a lot of doubts, I worry a lot. That means in the middle of the night I'm waking up worried about stuff. What that's right. If I'm worried in the middle of the night about a decision I made, it's gonna affect my my physical energy. I'm gonna be grouched, I'm not gonna be able to take on the next day. That's why taking one of these 23 techniques to relieve stress, stop negative spirals, decline to your mind. That's the kind of stuff people need, just like during the pandemic, because we're entering a tunnel of change right now, and we have no idea how long that tunnel is, how long it's gonna last, but you know that's gonna happen for at least a couple of years. So, you know, it's it's long term.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

I really like that though. We're entering a tunnel of change and we don't know how long it'll actually be. So that that is amazing, John. I would say on that note, thank you for the conversation. We had a definition of emotional intelligence and just kind of what the data is actually showing. Uh, to anyone who is listening, this is what I geek out about. If you have a question about this, if you want to get an assessment, if there's anything else that you want, like there is someone here who would actually be able to help you, myself or John. Or if you were just curious about the subject matter and want to talk about it, I know John talks about emotional intelligence as much as he possibly can. I will be happy to do the same. So as we're wrapping up, Debbie's boyfriend, now Huckman. Thank you, Zoe, pop up. Yeah, yeah, thank you. And John, you continue to be one of my favorite people. I should have said on the last note to the the the audience, John's commitment to his own personal development is that in the last year or so, he's actually taken on taken on editing all of the videos that he would put out himself. So I get to look at it, but I'm always inspired because he is so much better than I will now, I would be now. So, John, that it in it inspires me to stay in that continuous learning space, man. I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. And until the next time you speak, take good care. Stay well. All right. Today, we explored the power of emotional intelligence, what it is, why it matters, and how the four energies and self-awareness can transform the way you lead and live. Remember, understanding yourself is the first step to understanding others. If this episode resonated with you, we'd love to hear from you. Connect with us on social media, share your insights, or leave a review. Your journey to greater emotional intelligence starts now. So let's keep this conversation going. And until we meet again in this space, take very good care of you.