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Diaries of a Lodge Owner
In 2009, sheet metal mechanic, Steve Niedzwiecki, turned his passions into reality using steadfast belief in himself and his vision by investing everything in a once-obscure run-down Canadian fishing lodge.
After ten years, the now-former lodge owner and co-host of The Fish'n Canada Show is here to share stories of inspiration, relationships and the many struggles that turned his monumental gamble into one of the most legendary lodges in the country.
From anglers to entrepreneurs, athletes to conservationists; you never know who is going to stop by the lodge.
Diaries of a Lodge Owner
Episode 103: Hearst Air - Flying Dreams and Northern Memories
Stepping off a float plane into the pristine wilderness of Northern Ontario – tired, dirty, and utterly happy – is the moment Melanie Veilleux lives for. As the owner of Hearst Air, she's witnessed this transformation countless times over nearly five decades in the outfitting business.
Born into the family operation when her father pursued his dream of bush plane flying, Melanie offers rare insight into a world few get to experience. Her seven remote outpost camps provide trophy pike and walleye fishing where anglers have entire lakes to themselves, creating the perfect environment for that increasingly precious commodity: genuine disconnection.
Beyond the stunning fishing at locations like Quantz Lake and Napkin Lake, Melanie pulls back the curtain on the complex logistics behind fly-in operations. The vintage Beaver aircraft that serve as lifelines to these remote camps require specialized maintenance and parts that haven't been manufactured since the 1970s. Every pound loaded onto these planes must be carefully calculated, from propane tanks to coffee pots – because forgetting even small items means costly extra flights.
The conversation ventures into the therapeutic nature of wilderness experiences, the shift toward conservation among anglers, and the challenges of maintaining personal connections with guests while running three interconnected businesses. After watching multiple generations of families create memories in her camps, Melanie now contemplates her own next adventure and what it means to potentially step away from a lifetime in the bush.
Whether you're dreaming of trophy pike, seeking to understand the realities of outpost camp operations, or simply craving stories from someone who's dedicated their life to sharing Canada's wilderness with others, this candid conversation offers both practical wisdom and heartfelt reflections on a truly unique way of life.
I think my favorite time of of the day, of the week, of the month, all all of that is when the plane lands from going to pick someone up and the guys come off the plane and they're they're dirty and they're tired and they're exhausted and and they're so happy like they're. There's no stress in their shoulders, they're just genuinely well and I feel I feel really proud in that moment and they're just so happy and they immediately, immediately, will say I can't wait to be here next year.
Speaker 2:This week on the Outdoor Journal, radio Podcast Networks, diaries of a Lodge Owner. Stories of the North.
Speaker 3:Folks, we have the pleasure to talk with an outstanding young lady from Hearst, ontario. I first met her at one of the few trade shows I did early in my tenure at Chaudière and she instantly became an inspiration to me. At the time she had already been part of the northern-based tourism industry for three decades the kicker we are the same age. She has literally spent her lifetime in the industry and is one of our finest. Now it is my pleasure to introduce all of you to Melanie Villiers On this show. Mel and I talk about the differences and similarities between our business models An all-inclusive resort versus fly-in outpost camps. We tell some great stories and learn a little bit from each other.
Speaker 2:So, folks, if you have, ever been interested in anything planes, lakes and outpost camps this one's definitely for you. Here's my conversation with Melanie Villiers.
Speaker 3:Welcome folks to another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner and I am extremely excited to have Mel from Hearst Air and Mel is no stranger to me or the Fishing Canada television show. We've shot multiple shows with her and I had the honor of flying into Quance Lake and experiencing the outstanding fishing that you get when you go in and you've got the whole lake to yourself and a beautiful little cabin and it was a wonderful experience. And Mel, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you. Thank you so much for thinking about me, and this is fun. I'm glad to chat with you in another setting, a different setting, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:Mel's up in Hearst and I am coming to you live kind of from the Upper French River at the cottage, so it's relaxing settings, no doubt.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm also looking out at the lake and the plains on the dock, and always a nice view.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah for sure. So, Mel, let's kind of start at the beginning for you with Herstair. I know it's a family operation and you're the head of the operation. Now I would say I'm not sure, but you're the one that I've seen for years at all of the shows and I think did we do a trip to New York one time. That's right. Yeah, that was a great trip. Maybe we'll get into that later, who knows? But tell me a little bit about how you got into this business.
Speaker 1:Well, from the start I guess that's a long time ago, because I was just a year old when my parents started this Wow, so I'm literally born and raised into it yeah, my father worked for the township here in Hearst and he always dreamt of flying, got his pilot's license and then, when he was about 30 to 35, I guess, decided to just go for it and he bought a portion of an existing air service and the float flying part of it and the fishing camps there were just a few and then just built it up from there. So, yeah, ever since then I've I've been here, um, I've I've always you know it's, it's been a lifestyle all my life uh, done shows, sports shows, since I was about seven years old.
Speaker 3:So what were the sports shows like back then? Like, I mean, I bought the Lodge in 2009, chaudière and I remember hearing stories, especially one of the former owners of Chaudière. His name was Tony Stinson. Tony and Betsy owned Chaudière for years, from the early 70s, maybe late 60s, right through to the 90s, and he came. It was funny because as soon as I bought the lodge, I bought it from a fellow from Indiana by the name of Jerry Noel, but my real estate agent, brian Dykstra, who is, I'm going to say, famous in that business of selling lodges Everybody knows Brian from north to south and Brian, the first suggestion he made to me was call Tony Stinson, steve, call Tony and see if there's anybody that he knows that you should contact and this and that. And I called Tony and in 2009, tony was in his mid 80s for sure and I had heard stories of him being larger than life and all of these stories. So I phoned Tony and he still had the same home number, still living in the same house, and he actually come to the Sportsman Show and met me there. It was either the Sportsman Show or the Spring Fishing Show, one of the two in my first year, so this would have been the spring of 2010.
Speaker 3:And he looked at the booth. He looked at me 2010. And he looked at the booth. He looked at me and the first two things he said was you got any beer under there under the table? And I said beer under the table. He said yeah, everybody's got beer under the table. I said no, I didn't get that memo, tony. And he said how old are you? I said I'm 33. He said you are crazy. What are you doing? Buying a fishing lodge? I said well, you know, I just I love the idea and I want to, and I want to. This is what I want to do. And he said oh, okay, and you don't have any beer. So I said well, what were the? What were the? The shows that you went to? He said well, every every show we went to, every uh lodge, uh owner, in their booth they had a cooler full of beer, either behind the uh, behind the, the wall or under the table. I said I don't know if it's like that anymore. Do you remember those days?
Speaker 1:Oh God yes, well, I mean, when I was little we used to meet my parents at the Toronto show because it was during our March break, but I was seven or eight years old, but I remember all the outfitters back then. For sure they were liquored up and we'd go for supper afterwards too and end up in these restaurants. My gosh, seeing things I probably shouldn't have at that age yeah, no doubt I can imagine, yeah, oh, but yeah, it kind of.
Speaker 1:I think it just went with the lifestyle. You know, for us we're in the outpost business, so we don't spend the week with the guests, we're. You know, they show up, we see them, fly them in, and we don't see them for a week. But when you have a lodge, like what you lived, you're with those people all the time and they're on vacation. So everybody must be like hey, steve, stop by our cabin, come have a beer, come have a beer. So it's just, I mean it, it, um, it can get to you and then it just becomes your lifestyle, whether you're at the lodge or not. So that's, that's kind of what I witnessed all those older people.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, the guy that in that first year his name was Mike Apron and I and I'm pretty sure I've told the story on the show before, but if I haven't, um, I've told it many times and he had a trailer park on rice lake and, uh, his booth was right next to me and again he was like what are you doing? You bought a fishing lodge. He says, listen, I'll. And this is at the beginning. He says I'll tell you how to make a million bucks. I said, oh and, and at that time I was, I was green and had like minus money, I had no money at all. And now I'm thinking, oh man, I'm. And I was priming myself for this wonderful piece of information. And he said to me he said, steve, the way you make a million dollars in the lodge business is start with two. And I thought, oh no.
Speaker 3:I heard that oh yeah, no doubt. And uh, I um at the. But at the end of the week, um, and we got, we were joking with each other and he, just a great guy, mountain of a man, like he was probably a foot taller than me and I'm about six feet, so maybe not a foot, but he was taller than me, I'm big. And I remember we were packing up our booths and he looked at me and put his big hand on my shoulder and he said listen, steve, I've been thinking this week about a piece of information that I can give you that'll really help you. And this is it. Take it for what it's worth. But he looked at me and he said there's two kinds of lodge owners and only one of them survive. There's the ones that drink and the ones that don't. Make sure you choose wisely.
Speaker 3:And at the time, like I had, I hadn't even opened the doors, like I had never been up. I had been up to the lodge to see it before I bought it and I hadn't even been back. And I I thought about that and I'm like well, you know, I don't drink, I'm not an alcoholic, I drink with my buddies on the weekends and this and that and everything else. And after a few years it's funny what you said about you know everybody's on holidays and all of that. Because number one, the lodge business and being an owner is very, very stressful Like there is a lot of shit going on. You've got your guests that you want to keep happy. You've got shit that's breaking down. You know septic systems to look after cottages, to look after beds that need made boats that are hitting rocks, like I mean it's just, oh, it's a huge undertaking and you're right when you build those relationships with those people, especially when they're returning guests. As soon as they hit the dock they're like Steve, yeah, let's have a beer Because they're.
Speaker 3:And I quickly realized that I could be pissed drunk every day for free just by visiting cottages, and I see how easy it is to fall into that trap. That trap and those words that he said to me really helped me because I realized that I could. I had to be the one that didn't drink and as time progressed, like we would have jam nights and I would invite everybody down because the main lodge was the heartbeat of my business. That's where people would get to know each other and then by the end of the week you had guests that had met each other there and they're like hey, you have a good time. Yeah, I had a good time. I really appreciate meeting you. Are you coming back next year? Well, we kind of thought about maybe coming back, oh okay, well, we're're gonna come back too. Why don't you come the same week?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, and then you start getting these people coming up before they're leaving and then booking tentatively, booking weeks together and that's the magic. But at the jam nights like I would I would always have one of the serving staff typically girls, but sometimes guys and I would tell them listen, I've got a whiskey glass here, I'm playing guitar and I'm entertaining and I'm doing everything. Your job tonight, number one, is to look after the guests and number two, make sure my whiskey glass. One is to look after the guests and number two, make sure my whiskey glass does not go empty of ginger ale. And I would have that glass of ginger ale in front of me because it looked like I was drinking, because as soon as you're not drinking with everybody else, they're feeding you, and I wanted my girls or guys to be feeding me the ginger ale so that my glass was never empty so somebody else couldn't fill it up. Fill it up, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I?
Speaker 3:mean, oh yeah, and I got thinking. Just here on the Upper French River there's three lodges in fairly close proximity in operation today Lunge Lodge, um, chaudière and uh. Used to be Casablanca. Now it's called the Tilted Took and um. When you look back in history and and inevitably you've got guests that have been coming to Chaudière for 40, 50, 50 years and they dabble each way and they always hear the local folklore and everything else and every lodge owner other than Tony Tony was an exception, but every lodge owner we're going back two sets of lodge owners at the earlier two sets at Lunge, a couple of sets over at Casablanca and the former owner of Chaudière. All were alcoholics and all had accidents and a couple of them didn't make it through their alcoholism.
Speaker 3:The guy that I bought it from, jerry he ended up and I didn't know this, but in 2009, when I looked at Chaudière, he was there and I was up with my buddy, mike uh skace. He's a real estate agent to look at it and I remember when we left, well, he picked us up at seven o'clock at the dock. I was going to take my boat and he didn't want me to take the boat. The fishing was piss poor in 2009 here and I was a fisherman and I'm pretty sure he was trying to steer me away from from actually fishing. So, yeah, anyway, he picked us up in his big Boston whaler and, um, I remember I was backing my bass boat into the uh, into the river, with my uh at the marina and he's like, hey, you Steve? And I said yeah, you Jerry. He said, yeah, do you like your prop? And I said yeah, as a matter of fact, I do like it.
Speaker 2:He said leave it on the trailer then.
Speaker 3:I said well, I got GPS and everything Doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:You're going to fuck up your prop.
Speaker 3:So I said okay, so I I left it on, I pulled it back out, put it on the trailer, got on the boat and you know those big I don't know whether they're they're 16 ounce water glasses, like those heavy, big. Don't know whether they're 16-ounce water glasses, like those heavy, big water glasses that you get served to you full of water. Yeah, he had one of those right full of scotch on the boat when he was picking us up.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and he took us back and we come up to the main lodge and sat down and he told us some drunken stories and he didn't look all that drunk but he drank that glass full on the way back to the lodge and then he had a wee cabinet behind his lazy boy chair that he always sat in in the main lodge boy chair that he always sat in in the main lodge. And he had a bottle of well, several bottles, but he was working on one, on a bottle of Valentine's scotch, and he poured another. He said you guys want a beer or a scotch or something. And I had just come from fishing a bass tournament. Mike met me halfway up and we said okay, and we drank two beers and he drank another glass and a half of Scott just straight up, warm, right out of the right out of the bottle.
Speaker 3:And when we left to go to the cottage that we were staying in, mike looked at me and he said did you see that? And I said I said see what he said. Did you see him fill that glass up again and then fill it again? And I said, yeah, I saw it. Anyway, next morning we woke up and we went down and one of the girls had brought him a glass of orange juice and she said to him I made it just like you like it. He said, okay, good, and later on because I hired that girl, her name was Becky Hawk, she come and work for me the year after and she said, yeah, that was vodka. He had vodka and orange juice for breakfast and then started into the scotch, usually sometime after lunch.
Speaker 1:Well, you probably couldn't stop.
Speaker 3:I mean you can't stop. No, no. And then he, he, he got out after drinking his breakfast. Uh, he got up and, um, he was stumbling a little bit and he was holding his ribs. And I said you okay, jerry? He said yeah, yeah, I fell down the stairs the other night.
Speaker 3:I was on my way up carrying my glass of milk before I went to bed. Maybe he was drinking milk, I don't know, but the man was so gripped by alcohol it was crazy. And as we walked around out on the main, like from cottage to cottage, and he was showing us around, he was a fairly slight man, like he was maybe 5'6", 5'7" and had like skinny shoulders, a skinny chest, skinny legs and this big pot belly. But literally we could hear it sloshing around, like you could hear the liquid in his guts and yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 3:We got into the truck after this whole episode when I was taking Mike down to where I'd met him, and he looked at me and he said I don't think that I've ever met a person that I think is going to die from drinking, that I think is going to die from drinking. And two weeks later Jerry collapsed at the lodge and refused to go to a Canadian hospital and his brother flew up from Indiana, took him home. They got him dried out and he did survive, but he only. He lived for another 10 years and he died about eight or nine years ago. And again it was, he was back, he never kicked it, he never kicked it right. So alcoholism and lodges they kind of go. At least in those days they went hand in hand, and probably still to this day for that type of operation.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I think I mean. Well, yes, it's not probably, it's probably less, I would think, but it's still existing and it's so hard on couples too. Um, you know it's hard on on everybody to be um, to be working that much and, like you said, just the stressors. And it's seven days a week, you don't, you don't get time off and you know you get aches and pains. You got to suck it up. So, hey, just have a couple drinks and work through it, and then you have to be raising your kids or be working with your spouse through that, trying to be sane.
Speaker 3:It's just not a challenge, it's a tough gig, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I was lucky there. I didn't. Melissa was at home with the kids when I was at the lodge for and I would, I would go home, for well, in the first couple of years I really didn't go home much, and that was when the kids were young. Like, we had three kids under the age of six at that time. And then, yeah, yeah, that first, the first year, I remember I wasn't sure whether I was going to lose the lodge, go broke, get divorced or make it. And yeah, those were tough days. Those were tough days, but we ended up making it through, you know.
Speaker 3:But, um, it's, it's hard when, when you've got a wife at home and she's having the kids aren't sleeping, they're well, they're babies, and, uh, we were lucky, she had, uh, she had a good, uh, support system at home with her mom and dad and my mom and dad, and you know. So we, we got through, but, um, it was uh, it was tough, and you know what, I was so busy trying to figure shit out, I didn't even have time to drink. And you know what? I remember too, the first, uh, when, when we were opening. Um, I remember one night we got into it and, um, I had all my buddies there and my brothers, and we were opening and and and um, it was probably getting close to there was a lot of work to do yet and not and you know what I mean and and opening is coming quick. There's no pushing that off. And I remember the one thing I will say is it would have probably been better if mom had waited until I was sober, but she pulled me aside and tore a strip off of me. I remember her crying telling me you can't be doing this, you can't be drinking like this with all your buddies who are here to help us get this place ready. And then tomorrow morning, when we're supposed to be working, you guys are all going to be hung over and nothing's going to get done. And the next thing, you know, come, whatever it was Friday, come for this Friday. We're all leaving you here Like we're going home and you're on your own. So you better, you better smarten up, you know, and I remember that conversation and that stuck with me well to this day.
Speaker 3:So I I really didn't have a problem with uh, with uh drinking on the job, even when I was socializing, you know, it wasn't until I hired my buddy, cole. He's, um, oh, cole's still at the lodge. He was my well, that was after. It was my aunt, it was my great aunt and uncle come up and help me, aunt Beth and Uncle Barry, and they're both well. Aunt Beth passed God rest her soul, but they were religious and they were there on their own dime and helping me and everything else, and she kept me on the straight and narrow. Aunt Beth did so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, like I mean, you have to be sober, like you're responsible for those people and you don't realize it, like you think running a fishing lodge is all fun and everything else and and, um, you know, there's got to be somebody there that's sober, who can look after people. Like I mean, I, I didn't think about people getting hurt or heart attacks or anything like that until it happened. You know, I was obviously sober and this was in about year five or six for me, but a guy had a heart attack at one night and it turned out not to be a heart attack, it was fluid around his heart but I thought he was dead. You know, and to not be sober dealing with that, you can get yourself in a whole world of hurt very, very quickly.
Speaker 1:No, you can't. You got to be able to respond and and you're the lifeline right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now your operation it's fly-in camps. Yes, how many fly-in camps do you have? Seven, seven. Now I'm familiar with quants and before I, before this podcast, I got onto YouTube and I was looking at some of the other lakes. I see Colin McEwen was up and he fished in the and I already knew about the Sutton River because Pete and Ange, they it's like, oh, it's legendary, that's like. I mean anytime, anytime, your name, her stare or that river comes into any kind of conversation, it's oh my God, especially Peter, oh my God, you, you gotta go there, you know, and so are you still servicing? Yeah, wow, gonna have to, we're going to have to do that. I'll give Carol a couple of big hugs and kisses.
Speaker 1:She's been trying and they've tried before. It's the kind of place where it's so easy to book Like I typically will have waiting lists for the summer. It takes a couple of years for people to get in because it's a very short season. So it just I mean it just doesn't, doesn't need any, no, and it's already like I'm already refusing. So many people and some people get frustrated because I say, well, you know, possibly next year, but probably in two years, and by the time people can afford a trip like that, they want to go now. You know, some of them are getting older and they're like, oh geez, if I have to wait two, three years, I don't know if I'll be able to do it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah three years. I don't know if I'll be able to do it. You know, yeah, yeah, so. So, no, I've, I've never wanted to, you know, spend the money and and and have have more publicity on something like that.
Speaker 3:Is there any way to um, to um, uh, increase the volume that you can service out there? No, no way.
Speaker 1:It's a. It's a trout fishery first of all. Yeah, it's extremely special and it's a lot more fragile than, you know, a pike and walleye lake or something like that. You don't want to disturb that ecosystem. Yeah, it's a partnership and a respect we have with the Chuckamolan family as well that have camps at Holly Lake and we obviously don't want to disturb that, yeah, that whole relationship as well. And that's their home, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're basically going to their. You know their background and their backyard, so you don't want to overwhelm that part of it as well. Sure, the nice thing about the Sutton is we we stagger all the groups. So you're going to a place that's so far, and you really are alone, cause if I have a group of four go in, let's say, a Tuesday, the next guys aren't going in until Thursday or um. So you're not paddling at the same time as other people, you're not fighting over campgrounds, you're not worried about, you know, getting to an area of the river where the fish are all spooked and it's phenomenal. So, no, it would be very, very wrong to try and put more people in there.
Speaker 3:That's right, yeah, a good moneymaker, but wrong. Yeah, yeah for sure. But you've got some other well, Quance was phenomenal, Like, I mean, walleye and northerns coming out the yin yang. Let's talk about a couple of the other destinations that you offer.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, most of the all of them are pike and walleye. Sutton is the only trout trip we do, yeah, so everything we do is pike and walleye and perch. The lakes that are closer we call the local lakes they're about 30 minutes out are really good for numbers of fish and every once in a while I get a big pike, like we get pike 40 plus every week, but it's not your average catch, wow every week, but it's not your average catch, whereas, well, I've been fishing with the Fish in Canada crew for, oh, full, like full time co-hosting since 2019.
Speaker 3:And there's only ever been one place that I personally have been to where the Northern Pike, and it was well, it wasn't just Northern Pike, it was a lot, but I'm talking about the Mackenzie River, excuse me which runs out of Great Slave Lake in Northwest Territories. Yeah, and there were massive pike there, but, like the Upper French River and Lake Nipissing, it's the same deal. Lots of you know 24 to 30 inch northerns, and then you know we get into the 36 class and then, and and here, um, we might break 40, uh, two, three times a year like a season. So, those big pike you're talking about getting those bigger pike once, one or two a week. That's phenomenal fishing. That's really good. And then couple it with the numbers and the walleye is awesome. It's really awesome.
Speaker 1:I think that's. Yeah, I mean, I think it does show that we are a little further. But you know it does make a difference in the fisheries, um again, the local lakes, like we call them. I, if someone says they're particular to trophy pike and that's what they want to catch, then we kind of steer them towards napkin and quants lake. Quance, where you were. It's about six miles long. Another 50 miles up is Napkin Lake and it's just above the Albany River. It's double the size of Quance and it's a great fishery. So Quance and Napkin are pretty similar, but I would say Napkin beats it. Nice, it's a little better. On that, yeah, um, but you know, fishing is fishing.
Speaker 3:As you know, when you guys went to quants it was, it was a tough week um, wow, there was so many factors in that week, like, and it was still a great week, I'll tell you it was um, I remember we fished one day and then, um, I was in the camera boat so I said, okay, boys, I'm going to go out and fish a little bit before I come in. And the fishing was great and I had my bug jacket on and I had everything tucked in and I thought, okay, I'm good. And I went out and hammered the walleye and caught a big northern pike and I was messing around with the live scope and that was like I don't usually get to mess with the Garmin live scope, which is the forward facing sonar, and you see fish in real time. And I was watching this big northern in this bay and it was like five feet and I thought I didn't even know what it was. It was so big I didn't even think it was a fish.
Speaker 3:And, um, sure enough, I got that on and, uh, and I was watching the screen as I was fighting this fish and got it. I got it to the side of the boat and I wasn't going to bring it in, I just unhooked it at the side of the boat and let it. I got it to the side of the boat and I wasn't going to bring it in, I just unhooked it at the side of the boat and let it go. You know, when you don't have cameras right, you don't I don't need to document it.
Speaker 3:And I saw it and there was nobody else in the boat for me to show it off to, so I just let it go at the side of the boat. But when I got back, the boys were a little disappointed that I hadn't had a cigar and a drink with them yet and told me that you know, it's very respectful to come in when we're coming in. And I had felt around my belt line you know, it was a little itchy, hot, you know and I took the bug jacket off and I reached into scratch and it felt swollen. I'm like, oh, wow, guys, I think fate has dealt me a card that you guys are going to like. And I dropped my pants and I already had my shirt off and I had a red line right around my belt, from where those black flies. They're like pigs. They crawled right up underneath my jacket and down underneath my belt and ate me alive and but yeah, you know what? I don't imagine they're like that at all in years. I think we just hit a bad year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not the year, it's the week. It's the week. You guys were there in the worst possible time. I felt so bad.
Speaker 3:And then there was the forest fire and there was smoke the one or two days and actually we were a little worried that the plane might not be able to fly because it was so smoky the day before you were coming to pick us up. But I loved it and it was hot. It was hot too, yeah, but but you know what?
Speaker 3:that's part of the experience, that's uh, of course yep you know, um, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I would go back in a heartbeat. Um, I'd love to try napkin. It sounds very cool, very cool, yeah, napkins good, it's um, Very cool, Very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Napkin's good it's um. Well, we, we have guys that come July, August, they, they, and that's the only time they'll ever go. But when I speak to big, big pike guys, they want spring and fall, and I don't know if that comes from bigger lakes that they're used to or the South Southern Ontario or warmer water. I don't know where that's from, but for us it honestly doesn't really matter. Yeah, what I see in the fishing and the numbers that people are getting is, if it's really really hot and having said that, last week was horrible weather but the guys did great but usually if it's really hot the walleye will get sluggish, but the pike don't stop.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And what day is that going to be? And what week of what month? I don't know. Weather is so unpredictable now so it really doesn't matter. May to September, Even September we have great fishing in September.
Speaker 3:Well, september for me, jerry used to close on Labor Day and when I saw he was closing on Labor Day, which is beginning of September, the first thing that I did was I extended my season to Thanksgiving and I had nobody Like after that Labor Day weekend when I took over, there was zero bookings and by about my fourth or fifth year, september had turned into my busiest month. You know, but it's a little bit. I think it's a little bit different, this being closer to the GTA and closer to the well, like, I mean, you guys are probably closer to the United States than we are, but September's when all the kids go back to school and couples start to come, and older couples too that aren't really interested in going to a place, when you know there's lots of families, and yeah. So September and October turned into really busy months and the fishing in September here, although different than July and August, was just as good. And when you have good guides, I didn't have to worry about, you know, finding fish, because they were all they just, you know, follow fish, because they were all they. They just, you know, follow them. You know what I mean Out every day and uh, and, and it turned into.
Speaker 3:Well, it's where, it's where I made my money. I was paying for the lodge, paying for the overhead, paying for everything until you know September, and then, by that time, you know, I had banked enough to to pay for the bills. Now it was time to make sure I had enough to carry the place for the winter, and if there was anything left over, then, you know, I made a little bit of money. But, um, and that didn't happen for three, four or five years. Um, living the oh yeah, absolutely it was, uh, it was more like living a blur. Now, thinking back about it, you know so much thinking about that.
Speaker 1:That's just it. This week I had to convince someone that offered me a lot of cash for a moose hunt and he's like are you sure that's a lot of cash? I'm like I can't put that in my pocket. I got the planes to pay. I got bills to pay. Like yeah, you don't get it. I don't own a, a machine in in the woods to cut the logs. Like yeah, these are airplanes and there's gas and there's insurance and there's pilots and there's a maintenance engineer to pay. I can't pay them in cash.
Speaker 3:No, I, yeah, I know, that was always a hard thing, because people were used to like, I mean, the, the, a lot of the, the lodges that are in a family, that come along and and you know, some people will take cash right and, but I couldn't, I couldn't, and it's hard to tell people because they're wanting the, the 13% discount. You know what I mean. That's what they're looking for and that 13% discount although, yes, I don't like paying the government either, but I have to show that I'm paying for the stuff that I have with real, with, with, with good money, because if I don't, all of a sudden people are going to start asking questions, yeah, and then you're in a whole world of hurt. I mean, thank the good Lord I was never audited, because, while Aunt Beth did a really good job with my books, I'm sure, but fuck, I don't have a clue, I didn't have.
Speaker 3:I played guitar, yeah, yeah, I was just trying to survive. I don't know. I played CR, yeah, yeah, I was just trying to survive. I don't know, sorry, cra, yeah yeah, no, it's a good fun.
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Speaker 3:So your business is a little bit different than mine and I've always been intrigued with the planes Because you know, when you're a guest, part of that well, I would say a huge part of the experience of what you do is the flight in and out.
Speaker 3:I had never done I had been up in a float plane once or twice before because I had guys that would fly into Chaudière and the pilots would say, hey, you want to go for a quick cruise? And I'd say, yeah, I'll go for a cruise, but it was just a, you know, a quick up and then down. And it wasn't until I started co-hosting with Ange and Pete that I got to experience float planes and flights in and flights out, and that experience is second to none. Like I mean going into Quance, the thing that I remember about that trip the most was flying over the forest fires and seeing active forest fires burning in those areas. Right, but to get up in a plane in Northern Ontario and for as long as your eye can see, you see trees, rocks and water. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Once you get going, it's ridiculous and you got to see the tree line too. You went above the tree line. Yeah, that's a special thing to see too, Just how all the you know the swamp and the tundra formations and the only trees are around those lakes and rivers. So there's nothing and it's not like we have mountains to look at, but it is beautiful and it's on right.
Speaker 3:For sure it is. Now, that's from the perspective of a guest. My real interest is in the perspective of an owner and what you have to deal with when it comes to the planes themselves, because I know what my biggest overhead costs were in my business, which were things like labor, food gas, labor, food gas. But I'm pretty sure your biggest overhead is those machines that carry people through the air to get to those lakes. What do you have to deal with with those planes and pilots? Really?
Speaker 1:Yes, so my father and my brother are pilots, um, and they are. They are very, very, very passionate about airplanes, so they are very attached to them. My brother doesn't fly with us anymore. He flies in in Quebec now for Air Inuit, but he was here a long time. That becomes everything is those airplanes. You get really attached and they work very, very hard.
Speaker 1:But my father, if you'd ask him today, he'd say I never worked a day in my life. He loved every single day. He loved coming in in the morning, the sun was rising, he'd pump the floats and get the planes ready and then at the end of the day he'd tie the plane. It's it's almost romantic to think of that whole thing for him. He absolutely loved it, um, for for others, they love, they love the planes and the performance of the planes and everything.
Speaker 1:But for the pilots, the hard work like flying the plane is difficult but it's loading and unloading and you, you know you get to a river and there's no dock and you got to unload drums of fuel or, um, you know, pick up some paddlers and and negotiating the water and the winds and that kind of thing. It's not flying the plane. That's difficult work. It's the bush flying, so that that becomes, you know, the the hardest part, uh, for them. But as far as owning the planes and the business part of it, it's just, it's the, the cost of parts. So we have the havelins, it's a beaver and a turbo beaver.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they stopped making them in the early seventies. So they don't make new parts and not there's not a lot of these flying anymore, so the parts are extremely expensive, extremely hard to find. I don't know how to explain it without discouraging someone that wants them. Wow.
Speaker 3:You know, what?
Speaker 1:It's a lot yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, what's the regulations? How have they changed over the years?
Speaker 1:Transport Canada yes, a lot of changes. So we're regulated through Transport Canada through operations, maintenance, dangerous goods. So maintenance, like the airplanes, need to be maintained with certain standards and requirements. So we have we're very spoiled to have a facility here. We have an AMO here, like an aircraft maintenance organization on site, which is pretty rare for an air service. Typically they have to ferry the flight to a shop and then the plane gets worked on and then it comes back. So they do that every hundred hours. But our planes get attention immediately, like if we land and the pilot goes hey, you want to check this out or check that out. The planes are spoiled, which is really really good because they're they're safe and they're well maintained. But that means we have a full-time engineer on site. So you have to pay a full-time engineer on site and you know the shop. We have a huge hangar and the admin on that and it's quite an expense.
Speaker 3:No doubt Is that engineer just look after your planes or do you service other planes in the area?
Speaker 1:Or are there other planes? Yeah, he does do other planes, mostly privates.
Speaker 3:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Cessnas. Do you want to see my view? Yeah, Audience is not going to see it, but you're going to see.
Speaker 4:There.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. Just like I remember it. Yeah, so, folks, for all of you listening out there, I am right now looking at a beautiful lake. There's three planes out on the docks, um and uh. It looks like there's lots of people out in the lakes with their trucks parked ready for ready for their uh, their ride home, and now you've got a beautiful house right there. I see your guitars hanging on the wall too, by the way, yeah, yeah, that's what keeps me sane.
Speaker 3:Nice, nice, at some point we're going to run into each other and have a jam night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should. My son actually just did his first concert in town for Canada Day. He's a drummer.
Speaker 3:Oh, good for him.
Speaker 1:Very proud mom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome, that's really cool. Yeah, so I can't imagine the logistics that you having to deal with the logistics of getting all of my gas and food and everything that I need across the water in a boat. You've got to do that to seven different outpost camps by plane and I'm assuming that the dangerous goods that's like propane and gasoline Yep, that's right that you're talking about. That's like propane and gasoline Yep, that's right You've got to that you're dealing with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we're we're limited access. We're in an area that most of the places we go to have no roads. It does allow us to carry certain things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to put in an airplane. Just because you don't have a choice, you have to bring, yeah, so, um, that'll, you know, gives us some allocation on that. But but, yes, you have to be very efficient in every flight. Every pound the plane can take, you need to fill the airplane to make sure that that that flight, the cost of the flight, is efficient, because if there's something missing at the.
Speaker 1:You know it can be as simple as a goddamn coffee pot. Yeah, you know, if you go fishing and there's no coffee pot there, and you called Mel and Mel said, yeah, there's a coffee pot and there is none there, you got to make sure it's there. So if it's missing, as soon as that plane goes back it has to be on the plane, because you just spent money to fly in and to service the camp. You've got to make sure everything is there.
Speaker 3:And that's typically the pilots that are dealing with that right.
Speaker 1:Well, yes and no, they're part of the team. Obviously, we have an excellent team and everybody has to be very aware of that. So the pilot definitely has to be aware that he cannot leave until he is checked. Is there anything else that I need to bring? So then we have a camp manager guy. He does all the maintenance and that kind of thing. He also keeps an inventory of things that he's checking. I, you know, I am asking the guests too. So if I have a note in the office, okay, this is missing or we need to fix that. So we all have to be, you know, working together on that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:To make sure that when the plane leaves, there's nothing missing.
Speaker 3:For sure. Well, I just think I think about you know, on the island fixing things and and, uh, you know I forget the, the wrenches or a pipe wrench or something, and and all I got to do is walk to my shop If it's not on the plane and it's not there. That's a, that's an issue. You know the, the logistics, to, to, to, to do that dance. The way that you do is um is uh outstanding and, like I say, uh, when we were there, we had no issues uh at all, with, uh, with um, um, all of everything being there and and you know.
Speaker 1:We even sent you extra beer.
Speaker 3:Yes, you did, yes, you did, and we needed it. It was hot.
Speaker 1:It was so hot.
Speaker 3:There was a. There was a little um sandbar. If you come out of the off the dock and you hang a left, there was this beautiful sandbar that come out on the lake and Pete and I would go there every day and jump out, get on the sandbar and wash up and swim and yeah, it was a lifesaver.
Speaker 1:Oh, but the horseflies must have got you so bad.
Speaker 3:Well, the horsefly, but they're. But you know what the horseflies are, are one thing. And, um, they're big and they're if, if they get you, they take a chunk out of you, but it's hard for them to land on you and you not know. And, um, as long as there's not like 30 of them attacking you, which there wasn't at any time, there wasn't. There might've been like five or six or 10 or something like that, but I've gotten good at figuring out their habits.
Speaker 3:And those horse flies for all of you out there listening in the Diaries family, I'm talking not deer flies like, I'm talking those big and and here on the French this week, man, they are bigger than I've ever seen them Like they're, they're like crows, but a horse fly will land on you. And if you can, if you see it land on you, don't just swat at it, watch it, let it walk around and it'll. And it'll rub its stinger and rub its hands together, thinking oh my God, I got a meal coming. And you watch this little dance that they're doing on your leg or your arm or whatever. And as soon as their ass starts to lift into the air, that's when they're putting that mouth. It's not a stinger, because you know a stinger is something they stick in to hurt you. This is a bite right they're taking. They're sucking your blood and once that ass comes up. You spent way too much time.
Speaker 3:Hey, I've had to deal with them, believe me, not just on quants Like you, deal with them everywhere, and once their ass comes in the air just before they start to bite you, then you swat them because they're not leaving. You get them every time. I got about six today down on the dock. Just let them land on you and then watch, and watch, and watch. There goes the ass. Wham, done, done.
Speaker 1:Thanks for that very valuable information.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'll tell you what it can be valuable, I'll remember. Oh yeah, the problem is when you get two or three on you and you know you got two running diversion and the one on the back of your leg that's getting you. That's when the problem arises. But yeah, so listen, this was your dad's dream and he loves the planes and your brother loves the planes. Is this your dream? What do you love about this business?
Speaker 1:For me it's well, it's all I've ever done. So I'm very happy with what I do. I do love what I do. I love where I am. I mean, where else can I work and be in this environment, right, and you work so hard? But it's so gratifying, like my guests are amazing and I, I really do love them and they've been with me for so long, just like you. You, you get this, you get this following of people that are just so happy and genuinely they, they're so happy to see you, even if they see you only once a year. But you know, I have two and three generations of people now that are coming and now they're having kids and like, don't worry, mel, I'm bringing you know, my kids just six months old, but I'm going to bring them fishing as soon as I can and and they, they really mean it. So that's that's what I love the most is every day. That's what I love the most is every day.
Speaker 1:I feel that what I do matters to a lot of people. Having said that, it is a lot, it's a lot of work, and I'm finding that I'm pretty old school in the way I'm doing things and I'm not very efficient. I'm very hands-on and I speak and write personally to every contact. I don't have anything automated. And in these days of internet and instant bookings and emails, I can't work like that anymore because I can't keep up. I can't keep up. It's impossible, yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:So I think that's where I'm at now, thinking I just can't do this anymore. But really I I need to. I need to be more efficient in the way I'm doing things, but I don't have a staff to set these things up for me. It's me, yeah, you know, yeah, so that's a little overwhelming and I don't know how to get away from that personal touch. I'm afraid of letting people book online, because I feel like I'm not going to get to speak to them and make sure that they choose the exact right spot, that that I know that they're going to have a great time at, and so I'm, I'm that's a battle that I'm having right now and, um, I've never taken the time to travel myself. I'm finally doing that. So I'm kind of seeing that, you know, maybe it's my time to be doing this kind of thing and traveling and meeting people and and not just being the host.
Speaker 3:Wow From. I had those feelings when I was thinking about selling the lodge and and it wasn't, um, I didn't even think long. Um, I, you know, I just got tired. I got tired and I got burnt out. Um and um, the decision to sell the lodge was, was, uh, was, uh. I don't want to say quick and I don't want to say the wrong decision for me, because it was the right decision.
Speaker 3:But it come with a lot of those feelings and worry about letting all of those people that you're talking about your guests, down. And since I've sold the lodge, now I'm a little bit different because I have a place beside the lodge in this island and all of those guests that I really connected with that still reach out to me all the time like they come and they'll drop in and they'll see me and everything else. But it's one of those things where sometimes you've got to make tough decisions and when it's your time, it's your time right Now. There are ways that I found to do both Keep that personal connection but yet automate some things. Like I used a software. Well, I built one. Actually, I had a guy do it for me. Well, I built one. Actually, I had a guy do it for me and that was very time-consuming for him. It was hard and expensive for me but it was definitely worth it.
Speaker 3:And since then, actually working at Nordic with Will, I found that there's a guy that has a very similar software where you put in your phone number. You can still talk to your guests. You don't have to allow them to book online although you can but it sends emails. Once you book those people in, it'll send a welcome email. It'll send your emails in the fall. For you they're generic information emails but still, you know people are getting conditioned to getting that kind of information and wanting it Right. They want right Because my biggest problem was I would be phoning everybody but you know people weren't getting a phone call, sometimes until two weeks before they were coming. Right, because I've been doing other things.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, you just can't keep up.
Speaker 3:I can't, no, no. So if you can audit and and the name of the pro program is called track it, I have, I have. Oh, you got track it. Yeah, yeah, have you, have you. Are you using it for?
Speaker 1:sending your emails, and I'm just starting with the automated templates and that that kind of thing. Um, so yeah, cause I wasn't online with it. I had it, um, as a desktop, so he finally convinced me to go online. Noah, yes, and he's phenomenal. I had him on as a guest, did you? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I worked with him for a long time.
Speaker 1:He's great because if I do have an issue then I can call him right away and he's on it. He's really good.
Speaker 3:The other thing I found with him is it's his program. So if his program doesn't do something that you're doing, or if you see something that you could automate that's not automated on there, he'll make the changes for you, like he'll improve the program right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, but yeah, it's, and just that is time consuming, because so you know, I can sit there and go, oh, I'd like to do this and this and this, but now I have to. It's still time to do that while I'm running to the dock to load the plane and then people call and and you know what I mean, that it's yeah, so it's, it's a lot. So I, I'm, I'm at the point now where we have been talking about it for a few years. You know we would be for sale for sure.
Speaker 3:Well, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:We're not just an outfitter either. We're an air service. We have an aircraft charter service year round. These planes go on skis, um, no shit. We work with MNR, we work with Environment Canada, we work a lot with First Nations Um, a lot of research projects up north. We bring people like this. It's, it's constant. The tourism is just part of what we do. So when you go, this is normal for me, that's what we know. But if someone wants to be just a tourist outfitter, that's a lot. And if someone wants to just the airplanes, well, they maybe don't want the fishing camps, so we're used to it. But really I have three businesses in one, like it's an aircraft maintenance shop, it's an air service, it's an outfitting business, which is normal for us. That's what I do, that's the way it's always been yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but transitioning that to somebody else. You know, some people have approached us, but they don't want me to leave for a few years. I'm like I'm doing this for me but I'm not going to do this for someone else forever. So so, yeah, that's a challenge in itself and it's going to kill me to, to, to make the change, but I'm excited for it because, you know, because there's a lot of living to do, yeah.
Speaker 3:What are your other interests?
Speaker 1:I want to travel. I would most like I'm always going to work, but I'm probably going to still work in the same kind of industry. Yeah, I would love to go to the Yukon and maybe do some work up there in tourism. I want to travel. I don't want a permanent address for a long ass time.
Speaker 3:That's good for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just want to go everywhere. I want to travel with my guitar and go fishing. I don't even get to go fishing.
Speaker 3:That's the crazy thing, I don't fishing. That's the that's the crazy thing, because I, uh, in the 10 years I owned Chaudière, the only fishing that I did was guiding, when my guides didn't show up or I overbooked, or you know something happened. And, um folks, guiding is not fishing, you know it is. Guiding is not fishing, you know it is. You know you are fishing. And I never really fished. The goal is, if you're a good guide, the goal is to teach people how to catch fish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't want to outfish them especially.
Speaker 3:Wow for sure, right. And like I say, the only time I really saw the water was and I had these, these visions of of getting up in the morning this is before I bought the lodge getting up in the morning and canoeing my cedar strip canoe on the French river, with a, a coffee and a and a hula popper out the back, going bloop, bloop and just having these wonderful moments. And in the whole time I was there. That never happened once, not once.
Speaker 1:You know, I worked for Eric Lund at Esnagami. Oh yeah, when I was 19 years old, I met some of my best friends there. We're still friends to this day. We see each other all the time. But Eric was really good at that. With his family, he would go fishing. There were one or two evenings in like during the week that he would take his family fishing because he loves to fish. And I always thought, oh my gosh, that's so amazing because it's so easy to say no, I shouldn't, I'm gonna go work on this, or no, I shouldn't do it. You know, um, and I do the same. I could easily just say to the, to a pilot, like, hey, let's go fishing and you know, or come back and get me in the morning, but it's almost like it's too accessible or I feel guilty about doing it, or yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Guilt is a lot of it. Guilt is a lot of it.
Speaker 1:Guilt is all of it, it's ridiculous. I know I do have a partner in crime now that is flying the planes. So I've given him the you know the authority to say, okay, if you see like we're looking at the schedule and there's a morning that it's not busy, like just say, hey, let's go and and we'll go like we've. We've only done it twice, but it's gold when we do it feels like a week, just one evening out there. Wow.
Speaker 3:And there's so much to be said tried and I didn't get through them all, but I tried to sleep in every bed on the island, in every cottage, right To see you know just the ergonomics of the cottages, because I would always have guests say, hey, steve, maybe you should put a coat rack here or something to hang something here, or you know what I mean. And for me to go and stay in the cottage and sleep a couple of nights there and try and move all of my clothes in there and you know it really helped me try and see what people were saying, and then I'm like, oh yeah, there's nowhere to put your clothes. I got to live out of my suitcase here and when you're there for a week it's nice to have a place to move into.
Speaker 1:So what you're saying, steve, is I should for work purposes, I should definitely go.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, with no guilt at all, and I, and, and and I say that with, with authority, you know it's, uh, it is something that you should do, right, because it might um, it might um, it might help you, uh, hold on a little longer. You know what I mean. It's important to enjoy what you do and it will make your business better, inevitably, because when you're out there and you're enjoying it and you have experiences there, now you can talk about those beautiful experiences, right. Yeah, not that you need to sell any more beautiful experiences, because every lake you've got is beautiful. And and listen, folks, like I say, I've only been to Quants and it wasn't ideal conditions by any means, but the experience was outstanding. Like I would go back in those same conditions to do what I did 10 times out of 10. It was awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's true, and the times I noticed that when I'm doing the shows and if I do take a moment and talk like share when I go fishing, are the times that I have, because I used to go a lot more when I didn't have kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That my week off during the summer I would go north and fish on the Attawapiskat with the Baxter family. That's trophy pike, trophy walleye fishing yeah, which we didn't get into but yes, that's what I would do. So I have been fishing. It's just I haven't done it in the last 10, 15 years. But when you do start talking about that and how you felt when you were there and you know how it was when you caught that 42-inch pike, then it's an easier sell for sure.
Speaker 3:For sure. Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. And listen that Attawapiskat like I mean, it's busy folks, it's outstanding and we're talking big, big fish and get your name on the list. But don't not put your name on the list for the other lakes that Mel has access to with their camps on them, Because they are outstanding as well. Like, throw those into the rotation, Because every one offers a different and amazing experience. You know what's one of your best memories from either a group coming back out of one of those lakes, and I know you've got tons from from Attawapiskat, but go somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Um, that's a. That's a tough one for me. I don't have a best of anything. I couldn't even tell you what my favorite song is. There's too many. Um, so a favorite memory, I think. I think my favorite time of of the day, of the week, of the month, all all of that is when, when the plane lands from going to pick someone up, and the guys come off the plane and they're dirty and they're tired and they're exhausted and and they're so happy, like there's no stress in their shoulders, they're just genuinely well and I feel I feel really proud in that moment and they're just so happy and they immediately will say I can't wait to be here next year.
Speaker 3:Like they're just they're not even in their trucks yet. That's, that's awesome, that is the best, that's the best, that is the best, that's the best and that is what you do, that's the service that you provide. And that is the Sutton River and you know, being very careful with that resource and protecting the resource, because to get into nature and to spend a week, number one, unplugged, like no cell phone to worry about, like I don't like when I was a kid I used to go on fishing trips all the time and there were no cell phones you know it was folks. It actually happened.
Speaker 3:I, you know, I went away from my mom and from my girlfriend and from all of these people for seven days and had no communication and it was beautiful and there's so much to be said about the therapeutic nature of nature. It's a recharge that everybody should experience, and not only the typical guys that we're seeing and the typical people, but all of the newcomers to this country, like I mean, there's a huge market there of people that would love to see what this country has to offer and I always kind of tried to figure out how to get into that market but never really figured it out. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:I think they just need it to be a one-stop shop. They need to show up with just a backpack and you provide everything. So they need the fishing equipment to be there, the sleeping bag to be there. You know, for me I think it would be kind of tough, unless they have like one or two organizers with them. And because they they do, they want to, they call, they stop in here and ask they're so fascinated. But they've never done anything like that. Some of them have never been in a 14-foot aluminum boat. You know, they just yeah. So it's intimidating, but I think if everything is provided and they're well-guided, I think that's what they would need.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, there's a business model for somebody out there.
Speaker 1:Somebody out there. Yeah, somebody out there.
Speaker 3:Any last thoughts Mel.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh Any direction you want to go? So many. We were just talking about something and I wanted to say um, I think that's pretty much it. I mean it's just, we could talk for another five hours about this.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 1:That's one of the reasons I really love doing the shows is I'm you know, we're stuck in our lodges and for you it might've been different out there because you had other lodge owners near you, but I'm alone here, like people in Hearst. I've been in Hearst all my life and they know what we do. We have airplanes oh, you're the girl with the airplanes over there. No clue what I do for a living. They don't know why I'm so crazy. And when we are, we all have to be a little eccentric and a little wacky. And when you get to the shows and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm not alone.
Speaker 1:And you can share these experiences and someone actually understands, and you don't feel crazy, and and and you also find people who have the same passion, because I mean, we don't do this because we hate it, that's right. We don't and we can, we can complain about stuff, and but we really do and it is a passion and you know, for me it's. I mean I, I was a year old, this has been all my life. I'm 49.
Speaker 3:Me too.
Speaker 1:So that's almost 50 years of this shit.
Speaker 3:Good for you. It's crazy Good for you, so yeah, but no.
Speaker 1:I'm very grateful that I've been able to do this and I'm looking forward to the next chapter.
Speaker 3:Well, good for you. Well, we're going to get together. We'll do another one of these because there's so much that we didn't touch on. That is awesome content stories and things so we'll do that. And then I want to hear the next chapter. I want to hear the next chapter. That's an interesting thought all on its own. Where does Hersteller Air Mel go, Like? I mean, it's amazing, I only owned a lodge for a decade. I was a fisherman most of my life, but I only owned a lodge for a decade. You've been there for a lifetime and I would love to do a show with you on just the change. All we talk about are the changes in the industry through five decades.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we haven't talked about the change in the guests too, and the guests yeah that's a big one Well you know what?
Speaker 3:Why don't we take a quick minute? The one big change that I saw, even from like 2009 to when I sold, was the fact that people have become so much. The fact that people have become so much their attitude towards the resource or towards the fish has changed dramatically, in a sense that in the first two, three, four years, our freezers were full of walleye for American guests who wanted to take their limit home. That was one of the key goals that they had and really one of the things that scared the shit out of me, because down here on Nipissing they were like I said. There was some years where the walleye population was crashing due to invasive species like the spiny water flea and the whole ecosystem was changing and the ministry cut the limit.
Speaker 3:From when I was here, it was four, Then they went to two, Then they went to a slot size. It was like 14 and three quarters to 17 or something. It was all in centimeters. Then they went to two fish over 18 inches Then, and now you're allowed to keep two fish on a sport license that are between 40 and 45 centimeters, which sounds like a lot, but 40, that gap is like a two and five eighths gap or something stupid, Although I will say there are a lot of them out there.
Speaker 3:I was out fishing twice this week and we caught our limit, which was four, because there was only two of us with licenses, but we caught lots. But you know, when you're telling an American guest who hasn't been to the lodge in 10 years and the last time they were there was like 1998 and they're coming with six guys who are used to taking you know, 36 walleye home and then you know slide a few under the, you know they're used to filling their boots and filling coolers and that has totally changed. That's one thing that I've seen and that has totally changed.
Speaker 1:That's one thing that I've seen. I have to say that on average I'm generalizing, but the people for us that wanted to overfish were more Canadian than the Americans. I've always seen more of a respect from our American guests for our fisheries than our Canadians.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Um, so for that that's a great, that's a great um, a great um, uh point because, thinking back, there were some Americans, but you know what, you're right, it was the Canadians that were overfishing as well, like or probably could be. You could be right, it may be more, and I wonder if that was just kind of a geographical thing because it was hard to get those fish back. But you know what, the Americans have been protecting their resources a lot longer than us.
Speaker 1:Our guys were so grateful to come and be able to fish like that. Plus, I think well, I don't know, I'm assuming maybe if you're only catching 30, you want to keep the 30, but if you're catching a thousand fish at a certain point you're like what's the use?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like they're just having a great time. They're like we're going to come back and do this again. They don't have to stalk. It's like this idea of oh my gosh, I've never experienced this, so I have to stalk up, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So no, I've always noticed our American guests were always more respectful, especially the pike guys. Like, pike guys are very conservation aware and they don't want to kill a pike elite walleye. But no, I mean when I was selling licenses. I don't sell the licenses anymore because it's all online, but I would write all the licenses on the little pieces of paper.
Speaker 3:I know Well that saved a lot of labor.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, yeah, I mean I'd say 80% of those licenses I sold were conservation for the Americans. So for us I'd say it was the other way around the Canadians were the ones that we'd have to watch for, and they're really easy. Because the first question is does the M&R ever fly in?
Speaker 1:And I say yeah, at least once a week, you know, and we really have a good rapport. So here's what they're going to check. They don't fly in. I mean, they don't have the budget for it anymore. They have been a few weeks ago. They started, but it goes in spurts. They can't fly in all the time. But as soon as someone asks me, I tell them yes, they will be there, because I know why they're asking.
Speaker 1:And it's not to our advantage to have them overfishing. I want to keep this going, you know. But my biggest change, I wanted to say, is not in the fishing, it's in the hunting. So the culture of hunting is really in danger. I find in Ontario it used to be so easy for the guys for a group and all that.
Speaker 1:I find that our biggest changes are in the moose hunts and I find that pretty scary actually. So two years ago, three years ago, sorry they cut our tag allocation over 50% in one year and I don't let's not get into that, but when I get my allocation in August for the following season, so I only get one year to get ready for that and I lost. That's a huge loss, Um, oh, like all the outfitters above highway 11. So in Northern Ontario, so that's areas 24, 25, 18 B, and then if you go North of McKenna, North of Cochrane, they had been cut quite a bit because there's a lot of road access and they hadn't really touched us much Cause there's not many roads up here North of you know, maybe 60, 70 miles, because it's all.
Speaker 1:There's no more trees, we're in the tundra, so they hadn't really cut us a lot. But there was no, there was no warning, there is no warning. It could happen again In August. I could get another 50% cut and if that would happen again, I am sure to close down or try and find some other way to reinvent the business, Because if we lose more of the moose hunt it's devastating to a lot of the businesses, but it's very scary for the future of hunting and that's part of our culture.
Speaker 3:Our heritage.
Speaker 1:Our heritage? Yes, and I see a big change in the guests for that, because you know the old guys. First of all, they can't navigate the system anymore because they're not online. I do have some new hunters, which is nice. I have probably five groups that are all under 30 years old, which is phenomenal. We hadn't seen that in a long time. Some fishermen, too, which was nice because for a while they were all 50 plus.
Speaker 1:So we got some young guys in fishing, which is nice, but I think that's on us too to start changing our marketing and what they want. Changing our marketing and what they want. I do refuse though I'm not going to put internet anywhere in the camps. Yeah, I manage a lodge on Brunswick Lake and we put Wi-Fi there, and I think it's devastating to see people on their phones when they're unaware of what an amazing place they're in. And that's the parents, that's the fathers, while the kids are throwing a ball and their heads are on their phones looking at the news. Yeah, and I hate that because I'm not proud of giving them Wi-Fi at all. Yeah, because they're not going to go home with their shoulders down and stress-free.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I know, I know, I know it's funny. At the lodge I had 20 acres roughly, with the 14 cottages spread over the 20 acres, and I put internet in the main lodge only. So if guests wanted to get online they would have to come down to the dining room and I had the dining room open all day and then but it was a little different, like phones weren't what they are today back then they bring their computers down and I found that at least they were intermingling right, they were meeting each other while they were down there, um. But I refused. There were people, there were people that would say you know, it'd be really good if you had um, if you had internet in the cottages. And I said no, that's not, it's never going to happen. Well, you know, even just to watch movies or something, and I had bought it's worse.
Speaker 3:Yes, I know I know Play cards or board games or whatever. But I broke down and I bought two TVs, two little 32-inch TVs, and two DVD players and I had a DVD library and if somebody wanted to watch a movie that bad, they could take a TV and pick a movie, a DVD and take it to their cottage but again, I always had the lodge open for poker or euchre and pick a movie, a DVD and take it to their cottage. But again, I always had the lodge open for poker or euchre, or we'd organize a progressive euchre tournament on Thursday night when we had enough people that were interested, or stuff like that. But things have changed so much. But anyway, that's a great topic for another show.
Speaker 1:Yep Sounds good.
Speaker 3:Wonderful. Thank you so much, mel. It has been a pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation with you and I remember when I first met you I thought, wow, that girl's got it going Like. I mean you, you, you knew the business.
Speaker 1:I was just some little little punk right and just starting Cause that was probably 10 years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah I've. I've been out of the business now for six.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:It's crazy, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks again Um no problem this is great and of course I'll do this anytime with you guys well, thank you very much.
Speaker 3:I'm looking forward to that day hey and yeah, and folks listen head on over to fishincanadacom. Uh, I think the countess may have opened up the uh, the um, uh, free giveaways again. I'm not sure I'll confirm that, but go on over there and check it out. And if there's giveaways again, I'm not sure I'll confirm that, but go on over there and check it out and if there's giveaways there, get your name in the bucket and give the Outdoor Journal Radio podcast a listen. Those boys are fantastic and thank you to all of the folks that are supporting us here on the podcast. And hopefully we'll pull Willie out of the Great White North here sometime, but that's okay, we'll carry it along with wonderful guests like Mel at Hearst Air and listen. If you need any information at all for absolutely outstanding fishing experiences, you can get a hold of Mel at melatherstaircom. Am I correct?
Speaker 1:Yes, sir.
Speaker 3:Nice, and thus brings us to the conclusion of another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner. Stories of the North.
Speaker 2:I'm a good old boy, never meaning no harm. I'll be all you ever saw been railing in the hog since the day I was born, bending my rock, stretching my line. Someday I might own a lodge and that'd be fine. I'll be making my way the only way I know how, working hard and sharing the north with all of my pals. Well, I'm a good old boy. I bought a lodge and live my dream, and now I'm here talking about how life can be as good as it seems. Yeah, hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favorite fishing show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right.
Speaker 1:Every Thursday, ang and I will be right here in your ears, bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal.
Speaker 2:Radio. Hmm, now, what are we going to talk about for two hours every week?
Speaker 6:Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
Speaker 5:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes To scientists.
Speaker 5:To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, it's the perfect transmission environment for life.
Speaker 6:To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you will taste it, and whoever else will pick up the phone. Wherever you are, outdoor Journal, radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4:Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by Indigenous peoples all over the globe.
Speaker 4:After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.