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Diaries of a Lodge Owner
In 2009, sheet metal mechanic, Steve Niedzwiecki, turned his passions into reality using steadfast belief in himself and his vision by investing everything in a once-obscure run-down Canadian fishing lodge.
After ten years, the now-former lodge owner and co-host of The Fish'n Canada Show is here to share stories of inspiration, relationships and the many struggles that turned his monumental gamble into one of the most legendary lodges in the country.
From anglers to entrepreneurs, athletes to conservationists; you never know who is going to stop by the lodge.
Diaries of a Lodge Owner
Episode 118: How Chasing Trophy Muskies Teaches Leadership, Discipline, And The Long Game
What keeps you casting when the lake goes dead quiet and your fingers are numb? We sit down with Ugly Pike co-host and Passador BJJ owner, Frank Ungaro, to map the shared DNA between landing trophy muskies, leading a thriving academy, and growing a podcast people trust. The common thread is obsession paired with integrity—showing up, learning fast, and respecting the community that makes the chase worth it.
Frank takes us into a Lac Seul trip derailed by a brutal cold front, where structure, timing, and humility became the only tools that mattered. We talk fall muskie strategy on the St. Lawrence, Georgian Bay, and the Ottawa corridor, why the “fish of a lifetime” often arrives in freezing wind, and how local intel outperforms a suitcase full of the wrong baits. From blades tuned to skim thin weed windows to trolling tracks that hold under helicopter shadows, the tactics are hard-won and specific.
Off the water, we dive into building culture—how Frank refuses to be ruled by membership numbers, how attrition shapes a gym, and why promoting people is about character as much as skill. We trace the Ugly Pike Podcast from a scrappy two-episode start to a weekly platform that mixes advanced muskie talk with real life.
If you’re chasing bigger fish and bigger goals, this conversation will sharpen your edge. You’ll leave with practical fall tactics, a clearer sense of what real leadership looks like, and the reminder that patience isn’t passive—it’s active, disciplined pursuit.
I think you have to come to a point in your show where you just kind of maybe believe that you have a good product. I think we're there now after many years, after just not knowing. Um, and you just start sharing your life and your thoughts and treating your listeners like their buddies and that you've connected with them on an intellectual level. And I think that's gonna open the door to giving you some creative license.
SPEAKER_05:This week on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Networks, Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North, we dive headfirst into the world of big fish, an even bigger ambition. The kind that keeps you casting when your arms are sore, or building a business when everyone else would have packed it in. It's that relentless pursuit of the next great story. Whether it's on the water or in the Jiu Jitsu Academy or behind the mic. That's what fuels today's guest. And that's exactly what we're exploring this week. And it is now my pleasure to introduce to all of you, co-host of the Ugly Pike Podcast, Frank Ongaro. On this show, Frank and I talk about the Ugly Pike Podcast and his Pasador Jiu Jitsu Academy, and how he has built his brands around obsession, discipline, and the never-ending pursuit for knowledge. We talk about what it really takes to succeed in business, the grind of podcasting, and how the lessons learned from chasing trophy muskies translate perfectly into the world of entrepreneurship. From setbacks to success stories, this shows a masterclass in patience, passion, and persistence. So grab a coffee, settle into your favorite chair, and join us as we cast our lines into the water of ambition, creativity, and the pursuit of excellence. Because both in fishing and in life, it's not about luck. It's about showing up, staying the course, and never stopping until you hook that one moment that changes everything. Here's my conversation with Frank Angaro. Hi there, folks, and welcome to another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North. And uh, as you heard off the top, we have a very special guest with us today, and his name is Frank Angaro, and he is one of the faces of Ug the Ugly Pike podcast, amongst other things. Welcome to the show, Frank.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, uh, it's great to be here, Steve Son.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, yes. Uh Frank and I were just giggling. Uh, I have a um a very uh a bit of an Asian look to me today. I uh was stung by a wasp on my forehead and my eyes are uh are uh almost swollen shut. Actually, I'm in good shape today. Yesterday they were. Um, but uh, you know, I uh it's one of those things you gotta you gotta pay your dues when you're working with honeybees. And at least it wasn't the honeybees that got me. It was uh it was an invader wasp trying to steal honey from us.
SPEAKER_08:So I was gonna call the cops because I thought someone broke in your house and uh, you know, just impersonating you or something like that. You know?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I know.
SPEAKER_08:I I just I just had uh word that my credit card was being used all over the country last night by American Express. And so I thought all this all this weird thing is ha are happening to me today, and my my friend Steve's been replaced by somebody. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone right now. Oh my god. What's going on? I know. Well, it's good that you're on the mend. I mean, are you so you have an allergy? Is that the problem? Or I guess I have no idea.
SPEAKER_05:I've never I've been stung by the honey bees. Um uh I'm not a lot. Like, I mean, I work with them and I don't use uh a cape or uh anything like that, but uh I've been stung on the hand and on my uh knee or whatever. And it's always my fault. Like, I mean, you grab a tool and and a bee gets stuck between the tool and and what you're doing, and and uh you get stung. But uh this time uh I got one right on the forehead, and uh and it didn't swell up until about four hours after.
SPEAKER_08:So I'll tell you what, I I had something happen to me this summer that you only hear about happening to other people. I was at a little get-together and I had a beer open, and I took a sip, and I felt something in the beer, and I I went to spit it out, and I there's a bee in my hand. And I'm like, oh shit. And then I'm like, lucky it didn't sting me. And then I started feeling a little sting. It was just, I didn't feel it when it happened. I, you know, whatever. I wasn't expecting it. And then immediately as I finished that thought, I I felt a little tingle on my lip, a little sting, a little pin. And then my lips swelled up, kind of like your face swelled up, and uh uh it was disgusting. But uh, I went around asking people if I looked better because I know people pay money to get their lips. So I had that look for a little while. I should have I should have taken some selfies for social media, but you should have.
SPEAKER_05:I I I would have appreciated seeing it.
SPEAKER_08:It was uh it was it was freaking awful, man. It was uh it was so disgusting to spit a beer, a bee out into your hand, you know.
SPEAKER_05:And I know. Well, it's uh I'm not sure what would be worse. Uh uh I've never done the bee thing in my beer, but but I've definitely picked up the wrong one and spit at a few cigarette butts.
SPEAKER_08:And that's I'd rather get stung by the bee, I think.
SPEAKER_05:I agree. I I agree. Because when you want to talk about disgusting, there's not much more disgusting than spitting at a mouthful of somebody else's cigarette butts, especially when you don't even smoke. Yeah. Well, but anyway, so how's your summer been going?
SPEAKER_08:Uh, it was a good summer. I mean, fishing wise, we had some fun adventures. Um, not a lot, not uh in terms of success, not a lot, but like we had a lot of fun and we did a lot of things. And um, you know, so uh hanging out with the family and just uh taking it easy. But um trip up to Laxoul this year with Chris. Chris was uh, you know, he comes home uh for a little while throughout the year and um we headed up to our favorite lake uh up at Laxool and and had a crazy challenge up there. But you know, we get we got what was the challenge? Giant cold front come through and shut the lake off for a week. Yeah, yeah, it was Isn't that the way it goes? I'll tell you something, man. What it was it was the weirdest thing I'd ever seen. Like, so the the summer was hottest balls pretty much everywhere. We had a hot summer, and then we get up there and the first night it goes down to nine degrees. Nine degrees from like, you know, the the the heat of the summer. We're there in August, you know, for crying out loud. And uh yeah, so we we get up there and uh the lake shuts off. And uh, you know, we go for a couple days, we don't see a fish. And the weirdest thing, like nobody saw any fish, okay? That's not weird in a cold front, that's to be expected. But I spoke to a a guide up there. Uh we were he was our guide for the day. And uh he said, you know, I said I I met up with him in the in the in the lodge office, and uh the owner of the of Moosehorn Lodge, Linda, uh who's a legend, the Musky Mama they call her. Uh Lynn, Linda says, you know, this guy's gonna be your uh your guide today. And and I turned to him and he goes, I had my best day of my life yesterday. We we saw 14 fish and we boated seven, and I looked at him and I laughed, and he wasn't laughing. I go, I go, what? And he he's like, Yeah, best day of my life. I'm like, nobody ever, nobody saw any fish. Like, we're no cold friends, nobody saw any fish. Well, I went up to the northern part of the lake, yada yada yada. Okay, well, I spoke to someone that was fishing in the northern part of the lake, and he had a shit day too. Well, so I go back and I I'm like, okay, well, you know, today's gonna be the day we're gonna do it. Uh 14 fish, yeah, let's do it. Yeah. So I run into the run into our cabin. Chris is like half dead because he's had two surgeries in the last two months, and doctors like, yeah, you need to do nothing for four months. And eight weeks later, eight uh eight, eight, uh, two weeks later, he's you know, at Laxuel, you know, throwing pounders. Throwing pounders for freaking, we were there for seven days, you know. So he's just putting himself together in the morning, and I say, Ah, good news, good news. And I told him the story. I'm like, oh, we're in your question today, we're in your question today. We get in the guy's boat, we go to the same place, zero fish. Uh, and and so this is the the rub with muskies, and this is why you know you guys over at Fishing Canada don't do very many muskie episodes because these fish, yeah, these fish are you know epic in terms of the way they mess with your psyche. Um and so yeah, we had just a slow time. Um uh one of our guides um put a fish in the boat for Chris, which was important because you know I get to fish all the time, and Chris doesn't. Um, so we had a great moment there. Um I published a compilation video on our ugly pike podcast uh YouTube page, which we don't usually do a lot of things on, but I threw a video onto there and it uh it shows uh it's kind of a description of our show, but it shows the moment we caught that fish and we all start acting like lunatics. So um it was great for Chris to get a fish in the boat. It was a nice fish. And we went out with Ben BD uh on the eighth day. We stayed for a uh a day because Ben, you know, was gracious enough to on his day off take us out. We're good friends with Ben. We love him. Um and I lost a really, a really nice one at the boat, it was on, and I just got stupid.
SPEAKER_05:And um, so you know what if we it's hard, it's hard to not get stupid when you've got a really nice one on at the side of the boat, yeah. Especially with muskies, because even though we've fished muskies for years and years and years, you go out and the amount of time that you have to invest to get hooked up with one, it's almost like everyone is the first one.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah, but uh well, that's uh that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_08:Well, you know, we we we we talked with uh with Wisconsin native and Eagle Lake fishing guide who's you know famous, both famous and infamous, I guess you could say, but we like him. Steve Herbeck and uh Steve said uh, you know, the day my knees stop shaking at the side of the boat when I see a big fish is the day I'm gonna pack it up. And you know, not too many guys on the planet have seen more, you know, 50 plus inchers than a guy like Steve. So that's the way that that's it. It's the first time. You that's a really, really cool way of putting it. We're I'm probably gonna steal that from you from my own show.
SPEAKER_05:So you can you can have that. Well that like I mean the time that you have to invest to catch each and every one of those fish, when you do hook onto them, it is it feels like the first time. And that's something that uh that's that uh in any kind of um love hobby, um um any kind of activity, it's hard to do that consistently with like I mean, if you go out and you curl every time you make a double takeout, you know, it doesn't really seem like the first time when you got a muskie on. For me anyway, because there's there's so much time in between catching them. Fair enough. Like the first time.
SPEAKER_08:Well, you know, I my other passion is jujitsu, and like um, I always do say that um, you know, I get when I plan my lessons, when I step on the mat to teach, we have you know, big classes of school has uh a big student body, it's a it's a big uh building. And uh I always say it feels like the first time when I step on that mat after even 30 years. So um these are two things that you know I've basically modeled my life after, and and every my life is about these two things, other than of course my family. But um so yeah, it's very much like that for me. And that's that's what true passion is. And and you're lucky if you have something like that in your life, let alone two things. You're very lucky if you have one thing in your life that you can say, you know, kind of fits that description.
SPEAKER_05:A hundred percent. Let's talk a little bit about that, jujitsu. Okay. So you've got a you've got a uh a school and you um rent or own a big building down there, like a gym. Yeah. How many students do you have inside um your is it is it called a dojo?
SPEAKER_08:Uh no, we call it um we call it a uh I call it an academy. Uh dojo is more of a kind of a traditional, and I'm on my phone right now because I'm just trying to get an image to kind of show you through the uh we just had a professional photographer come through and and take uh take some shots. And that was uh that was class the other night at the gym. Um it's a big building, like I said, and uh it's great. So sorry, your question, there's like a kind of a Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so it's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, it's it's it's awesome. If anyone wants to check it out at Pastador BJJ, P-A-S-S-A-D-O-R-B J um on Instagram. And if you do train and you're listening, come check out our Friday night open mats, uh, no gee open mats. They're awesome. Uh, we get lots of people come from uh around the region. We had people from Oshawa the other night come for our open mat. It's very well known for the the high caliber of students that are there, not only from our gym, but we get lots of MMA guys and wrestlers uh from Niagara Top Team or other different really cool schools in the region. Uh, and it's just a great night of hard training and and high level, high-level grappling. Um, it's great, yeah. It's the best.
SPEAKER_05:So, how many students do you have uh in your academy roughly?
SPEAKER_08:I I I don't know because like it seems like a weird answer, but because the attrition rate is so high in jujitsu, there's always people coming and going. So it's really hard to put a number, you know, behind how many students are training at the school. And the other part of it is I don't I don't I don't feel like it's healthy for me to to that extent to track the population of my school. It's very easy to get down when the number's down, and it's really easy to get up when the numbers up. And I've learned over the years that the gym is gonna be okay and that there's always gonna be people coming and going. And it's part of it's part of this life that we have that people come and go. Sometimes for years, and you think they're gonna stay and they become really good friends and they leave. And it's emotionally it's tough, you know, when you're when you're good buddies and you're training buddies, they just disappear. But um, to be a lifer in this is uh it's one in, you know, it's one in five thousand people. It's it's very, very difficult to find somebody like that. I I can count on one hand the number of guys, you know, in my gym that are like 20 years.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Well, like I mean, I can see the emotional attachment um parallel the lodge business. Sure. Yeah. Right? Because you're you're you're building relationships with people over a longer period of time, and you, you know, it's it's personal. You you it's hard to not take it personal when somebody doesn't come back the next year. Or, you know, why did they not? Or they go to another lodge. Yeah, yeah, I'm talking about the lodge.
SPEAKER_08:But they go to another lodge, is what I'm saying. That's not a good feeling, right?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but uh again, like you said, I um I I I eventually learned that um all you can do is the best with what God gave you. And um I would uh I would do the best at uh giving people an experience and finding out what they wanted. And if something did go wrong, finding out what that was, because I would call people that didn't come back and just ask, you know, uh, was there something that we did? Could there be something that I could do better? And um eventually, you know what I found, Frank? People would would come and they they would come for two or three years in a row, and then you know, because yeah, either you've got one of two kinds of people people that like to move around and see different things, and then you got the person who just is totally comfortable with what they've got, and they don't want to explore because they they're worried that they're not gonna get as good an uh of an experience. And when they find something they're happy with, they stick with it. But then you got those people that travel around, and it has nothing to do with whether or not they like you or your product. And but the one the key thing I found is when those people move around, if you do a good job with them, they always come back, and they usually come back after a year or two and they say, Wow, I wish I had never left here because they they they they don't have the same experience and then they come back.
SPEAKER_08:The grass is always greener.
SPEAKER_05:Well, that's that's true, right? It's so true.
SPEAKER_08:And what you're saying is such a direct parallel. Um, I don't have very many students leave my gym, but I've had several over the years, and and a lot of them have come back. Uh some of them, most of them I just told no uh for whatever reason. But some of them I I I I I understand, and if they if they if they leave with integrity and they talk to me and they they discuss it, then the doors open. And if they just take off and you know they they go silent, and I don't find that an honorable thing. Um but to your to your point, um, and and maybe a lesson that I've learned is like so in the early, early days, um, when I had this school, but it was like a pet project. I had a corporate job and this wasn't my part of my livelihood, and I didn't care who came and went and whatever. We just had a space and we had 20 guys that wanted to train, and you know, everybody's paying me 50 bucks, and I broke even and the economics worked, and now we weren't training in our garage. So I was happy and I didn't care. And I remember like um I had to start promoting people, and I had a really good friend of mine who I spent a lot of time with, fast-tracked his learning. We did a lot of private training, never charged him anything. He was a friend. Um, and then one time we had just a disagreement about his promotion, and and we were kind of going at it in the parking lot, and he said, you know, this isn't a real school, it's never gonna be a real school, blah, blah, blah. And I remember like that moment was like such a pivotal moment in my life where I was like, I'm gonna have to prove this guy so wrong. Like, and then I really took it seriously. And then, like, you know, I had issues over the year with competitors popping up, and oh, this guy's uh, you know, this guy's this guy, and holy cow, and this guy's going to his school now, and blah, blah, blah. And like, I just said to myself, you know, first of all, I knew I was gonna win. I knew I was gonna win. I knew I was gonna build what I have built. I just knew it. And I believed in myself. And, you know, sure there's doubts along the way, absolutely, but like I knew that if I treated people well, I understood people well, um, I understood human behavior well and psyche well. I studied, um, I started in business school. I dropped out, I wanted to go to law school, so I started political science. And I took a lot of philosophy majors because not because I thought they were useful or that they would be useful. A lot of philosophy and political philosophy overlap, so I could use the same papers in different classes uh and save some time. But what I ended up learning, like, you know, if you're not going to be a, you know, it seems like a useless field, but you learn a lot about human nature and motivations and the types of people and the way the brain works and the way society works. And I I I I I learned how to treat people and and I just believed in myself. And like at one point, I just kind of stopped caring what everybody else was doing. And, you know, things really started working out for me. And so, you know, we're one of the best gyms in the country now. Um, everybody knows who we are, everybody, you know, everybody seeks us out. Whenever somebody in Niagara Falls or in the Niagara region wants to do jujitsu, they come to us first. I know they do. I get I probably get the first crack at most people, unless, you know, they're living really close to a place, you know, in a town over or two towns over, I get it. Um, but I I mean I think really just doing the right thing, most importantly, and I know you know this because when I met you, it was so evident. Um, but you were genuine and you had integrity. And um, those two things you can't fake. And when you run your business, especially when you're in a leadership position like I am, like you were, uh, you know, you I was at the Chaudiere Lodge when you ran it years and years ago, you know, probably 2013 or 2014. And uh, you know what, you you came out and and made me, a nobody, feel like, you know, I was really important and we played foosball and we had laughs, and um, and that's it. You know, if you if you do those things, then you know, you're gonna you're gonna succeed and you're not gonna have to deal with you know that as much. And then when someone leaves, you can be in a very comfortable position to say, you know what, I'm gonna see that person again. And if I don't, they're really just not the kind of person for us, anyways. And you're not stressed about it.
SPEAKER_05:Or or if you don't see that person, they found they found something that fits better for them and good for them. Right? You know, and and um uh it's interesting when you were talking about that pivotal moment and um when you stopped caring what other people think. Um the best way I can describe that is that's when you ceased to be a follower and began to be a leader. And um and that and and thou those are very important things in any aspect of business. Um you know, and and um everything that you were saying about knowing people and knowing how to treat people and honesty and integrity, um those are things that if you can employ those in any business, you will be successful. There's no the it it's it's law. It's law. Okay, and once you set your your mind on a specific goal, and the key is staying focused on that goal and employing the things that we just said, there is nothing that nobody cannot do. No doubt. You know what I mean? And and and it's been proven both in your case and in my case. Um and and it's not an easy, it's not an easy thing, like you said, uh to to be blessed to have two things that you're passionate about and you chase. Um, you know, uh since I've sold the lodge, I've been looking for that thing. And uh I've done lots of things, believe me. Um but it's it's um it's hard to find something that you can be uh passionate about to the point where you know that you will not fail. And um for people out there that are looking for that, just uh keep uh keep looking because it the it's there, right?
SPEAKER_08:I I don't think the podcast that we have is dissimilar, like we don't treat it as a job, but we treat it as like I don't want to say an obligation because that implies that there's another side that you know maybe we don't want to do this, but that's just not the case. Um we don't miss publishing uh dates. Uh Chris is so busy, you know. He lives in Saudi Arabia, he's uh an architect over there, and he's I've seen the org chart, it's like Prince such and such, Chris, and then you know, a thousand, a thousand people. Like it's insane. Um and like and we struggle. We struggle with um we we've got uh we've got uh my buddy Pete Bosselman and and uh recently signed UFC uh fighter Cody Kovanchak coming on um tomorrow. And it's take it's taken us like three weeks to line that up. We the the three of us uh fished together, Cody and Pete and I, um a couple weeks ago. And so we've been trying to line this up, but and then line up with Chris, and it's it's really hard, but we always we always just make it happen. And um you know, we're really grateful. I I think um I think you know we were recognized by Pete Pete and Angelo, thankfully. And uh it's been a a very um it's been a real fun ride getting to know everybody on on sort of your side of the of the Fishing Canada family and and Dean and and everybody over there. Like it's just been a great ride. So uh I just sent uh Angelo an email. I'm I'm coming through town uh the first week of November, so I'm I'm hoping he's got time to sit with me and we can talk about a few things and uh and stay connected because it's been a uh just a great ride. But um but I think it's the same, like the passion and you know, we really believe in ourselves and the show because of the feedback we get and the and the and the recognition we get. And and now it's it's just um it's just kind of uh on autopilot where uh uh everyone listens and we just want to make it better. And and we've got some really cool shows coming up that uh people are it's gonna blow people's minds. Um and so yeah, it's it's it's easy to succeed, I think, if you just kind of you know treat people right and and believe in yourself and and and and lead the way and innovate. Don't get lazy and all that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_05:So yeah, yeah, 100%. How many years have you been doing ugly pipe?
SPEAKER_08:It's our eighth year.
SPEAKER_05:Eighth year.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, it's our eighth year.
SPEAKER_05:And uh, what episode are you in?
SPEAKER_08:Well, we don't have many because at the beginning we have this is 200 and we're in the 250s right now, mid-250s. Uh, because for the first um before the Fishing Canada Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network days, we were doing uh a show every two weeks because of Chris's crazy schedule, right? So we would we would record uh an episode for two hours, cut it in half, and we'd have one obligation essentially for the month, right? And then you know that changed. Now we do once a week, and so we we're just a little busier. But you know, we're gonna rack up the the episodes now a lot faster. But yeah, at the beginning for the first few years, that that was it. And because we didn't really even think anyone was listening, we said we said if we get a hundred, if we get a hundred downloads, we'll consider this a success. We we said that kind of to each other when we started this, and you know, even eight years ago, podcasts weren't really a thing. Like it was really it was weird, you know. We were really the first ones in the muskie fishing space, one of the first ones in the fishing space. Um, I remember when we were invited to uh to the studio by Angelo and Pete to host their their A co-host their AM radio show. Yeah you know, Angelo was just learning about podcasts by back then, and I mean I really I really come to uh to know Angelo well, but he said to us, you know, you should make your episodes five minutes long. And we're waiting we do it for an hour. Like, what are you talking about? And he and he I don't I don't remember his rationale, but obviously he was still getting his head around, you know, what what podcasts were. And I said, you know, I said, Angelo, I said, I don't sit down and I still don't. I don't sit down and listen to very many podcasts straight shot. Um, my my phone is hooked up to my truck, and when I'm in my truck, wherever I left off, I begin. Unless I'm traveling, you know, you're you're traveling for a few hours, you can bang off a couple episodes. But my day-to-day life is listening to podcasts as I pretty much move in and out of my car. Um, I was just at the the chiropractor, yeah, that's why I was five minutes late. And you know, I have my ear pods in and uh was listening to a show while I was, you know, getting the the pads on my my knee and my back and everywhere else it hurts. And um, so you know what people listen kind of in segments, but I mean the point is like back then everyone was just kind of trying to figure out what the hell we were doing. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, for sure. So yeah. What are some of your favorite podcasts? That we did that you did or and that you listened to.
SPEAKER_08:Oh well, um Mike Two great questions. Uh that I listen to you, like uh people are gonna get kind of bored by this, but like I'm a big economics politics guy. So my favorite podcast is uh podcast called the All-In Podcast right now. I love it. Uh it's four billionaires. Um, they're spread across the political spectrum, so you don't get um you don't get biased, you get a lot of good, honest debate. They're all good friends, so you get a lot of um you get a lot of real debate with these guys. Yeah. Uh but they're, you know, they're they're uh a lot of them are tech guys, tech and science guys, investors, uh VC guys, and they're you know, they're the top echelonist society. These guys are the innovators, the movers, the shakers, and uh the one guy, David Sachs, uh, was uh um chosen to be uh for this uh Trump administration, his AI and crypto czar. Uh and he's just about the smartest guy uh I've heard. I love him. Um I listened to maybe one in ten Joe Rogan episodes, depending on who's on. Um and uh you know what, it depends on like the mood I'm in. So I'm just opening my app right now. And if I like uh if I if I want to take it easy, I'll put on Theo Vaughn maybe for a Little while and not be so because a lot of this stuff stresses me out. Um I uh I listen to our podcast, I listen to every episode of the Ugly Pike podcast uh for two reasons. Number one, I want to I want to know what I can do to be better. I want to hear the things that I feel like work and that don't. Chris never listens, coincidentally, which is a fun, it's a fun kind of manifestation of how just how different we are, him and I, but how cool the formula is and how it works. Um and so yeah, I mean a few more, but that's that's essentially it. Um I also listened to our show because we have great guests and I've learned from them. Um and I want to I want to hear the information after you know you know the way it is. Like we're gonna shut the microphones off today, and then we're gonna go we're gonna go, uh, I remember talking about this and that, but not until we listen to it, we re we we get the the good details and the good points and the good good parts about the episode that we loved and that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_05:So 100%. Who have some of your uh uh most favorite guests been?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, oh man, there's been so many. Um it's funny because uh so I was on I was recording with John Anderson. Uh he's a guide out of Ottawa, epic uh guide at Ottawa River Muskie Factory, and he asked me the same question. And and we've had, you know, we've had you know Joe Booker, we've had Angelo Viola, we've had Al Linder, you know, we've had really, we've had the the cream of the crop. And I said, you know, one of my favorite episodes was a guy named Jerry Delay, Jerry and Ryan Delay, and he's like, who the who are they? And I'm like, you know what? This is like episode, like we have a chunk, before you write that down, we have a chunk of episodes that are not published right now because they are they were published, but when we signed the deal with you guys, um, we have a different RSS feed. And when I went to activate our old shows, a lot of them it replaced this, and everyone was like, oh, you know, everyone's like, what happened? Where'd all the shows go? And so we had to kind of deactivate a cluster of like our first 25 or so shows, and they're in that cluster, right? And these are in the days where we didn't, we hadn't yet, I think, hit our stride, but we we hit gold. So we're sitting at Andy Myers Lodge up at Eagle Lake, and we're talking to this dude. And when I say dude, he's a dude, he's got these stories, and he is not put together well, but it's part of his charm, right? He's not not saying that as a pejorative. He he he's just a charming dude that's in a bar, that's your your buddy's uncle, that you know, um, and he's with his son, and we're just we just start talking. He's from Hayward, Wisconsin, okay? So, you know, the muskie guys know Hayward, Wisconsin is the birthplace of muskie fishing, really. And uh in the U.S. And he just starts. And I said, Chris, I said, hang on, because we were new. I said, I'm gonna go get the microphone. And we put the microphone on and we just let this guy go. And it is such a wicked, wicked raw talk about a guy growing up in Hayward, Wisconsin, and who's came to love muskie fishing. And one of the best stories he tells was he used to swim across the lake with um, you know, Eppinger Daredevils. He would tie them to his big toes with fishing line and swim across the lake. Now, think about that for a second. There's big fish in these waters. This guy's that's how nuts this guy is. This story kind of embodies who this guy is. Um tear, your toe? Yeah, no kidding. What the hell? You know, so this is kind of the the embodiment of who this guy was and why I was like, wait a second, I gotta get the computer, I gotta get the microphones, let's go. And uh that turned out to be good for me. Oh man, it was so great. It was such a cool, you know. I could say, you know, I could say a lot of shows where we had just like amazing information, brilliant minds, Pete Bossoman, Daven Heinbeck. Um, you know, um uh we just had an episode with JP Bushy that's been incredibly well received. Uh we've had scientists and stuff like that. But like when I think of like when I think of like my one of my favorite episodes, it's just the atmosphere of being in the lodge, um, the way that came together. And also, too, we did an episode right maybe on that trip. I think it was on that trip, we did interview Steve Herbeck, and um, you know, yeah, he's a wealth of knowledge, and and he told the story about his knees knocking, like I said. But, you know, to set the stage, we were at a cot on a cottage right on the right on the banks of Eagle Lake. You can hear the water practically hitting our front door, and uh, you know, it was dimly lit, and we had a bottle of scotch in front of us, and he starts telling stories, and you know, this guy is so full of just raw emotion. Like Steve is an old gruff angler. You know, when I think of Steve, I think of Quinn from Jaws. You know the story the night he tells the story on the boat about the boat sinking and the sharks taking the guys, and he was telling us a story like that, and it was just, you know, if there was thunder outside, the light bulbs would have been flickering. It was that kind of, you know, it was that kind of small, intimate cabin dark with, you know, we were drinking booze, and and he was telling us stories, and he was some of his stories had that delivery and that kind of grit to it and that authenticity to it. And that was just an awesome moment uh for us up on you know one of the best musky lakes in the entire world. Um, dude, dude, there's a million, I could tell you a million stories, like for for how I appreciate some of these guests in these episodes. But um, those those were some of the very best memories that I've got so far, yeah, from doing this.
SPEAKER_04:That's awesome.
SPEAKER_08:Pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04:That's awesome.
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SPEAKER_02:Back in 2016, Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world. Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you. Thus, the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America.
SPEAKER_08:Step into the world of angling adventures and embrace the thrill of the catch with the Ugly Pike Podcast. Join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous fish of 10,000 casts.
SPEAKER_02:The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing, it's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate anglers who share the same love for the sport. Through laughter, through camaraderie, and an unwavering spirit of adventure, this podcast will bring people together. Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling adventures. Tight lines, everyone. Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_08:Don't ask me for spots.
SPEAKER_05:How do you deal with it?
SPEAKER_08:Don't ask me for spots. I would ask you, never mind. I haven't gotten a fish off the French River in my life yet. And that's that's a thing. When I when I fish with Matt O'Brien, it's a thing now. He's like, Yeah, I'm getting you your first French River fish.
SPEAKER_05:I'm like, uh there you go. Well, you have to come up and fish with me.
SPEAKER_08:Dude, as soon as the smoke clears on the home front here and I have a little more time free, like you're gonna hate me. I'm gonna be bugging you so much.
SPEAKER_05:Hey, no problem. No problem. But no, this isn't a question about spots. This is more important. Yes. Over the years, how do you and Chris find and dream up new content? Yeah. Ooh, what a great question.
SPEAKER_08:Um, well, there's two there's two answers. Number one, musky fishing is uh it's almost like jujitsu in that debates are always being innovated, techniques are always being innovated, approaches are always being innovated, technology is being innovated. And so as the years pass, like we never used to talk about live scope, the ethics of live scope. We never used to talk about, you know, um uh auto chart, which is the single greatest technological tool, especially that a trolling angler can use. Um, it's an absolute godsend. We so we can we're lucky that we can tap the same, and we try not to do too many like re-interviews too close together, but there's just so many great people in this community that we we have to go back to guys like Matt or you know, guys like Angelo or guys like whoever. Um, and you can just re-integrate these topics, these new topics, and get their takes on it. Um, number two, we started doing um an episode. We do them about once a month, and we call them Full Moon Fridays, where we do a recap of the finer points of the preceding three or four episodes. Um, but the first few minutes of that episode is usually us talking about um life. And, you know, for example, I don't remember it was maybe 20 or 30 episodes ago. There was um uh the cover art sticks out on our wall and our on our Instagram wall, it's a lion. And uh we we start talking about it, it was a picture Chris took of a lion, and the opening story was how he was in Africa the week prior and um was terrified in his tent as a lion stalked him for much of the night, and he could hear the lion on the other side of the tent, and he didn't know if he should run to it, where his family was in a different tent, just shitting his pants. And it's a really great story, it's riveting. Um, and and you know, he talked about his his safari adventure, but that lion story in particular is is uh so cool. And so, you know, we we talk about, you know, sometimes we'll talk about, you know, did you watch UFC and stuff like that? But it's usually about things that are going on with our lives. And I think whether we're doing it right or not, because sometimes we we see comments online. It's like, what are you talking about? What do you have here for musky fishing? Um uh number one, nobody pays me for this, so I don't really care what you say. I don't give a shit, really. Uh, and number two, I listen to these other podcasts. Um, I don't care when the all-in guys are talking about investing tech business when they're shooting the shit as buddies. I love it because I've I've connected on some level with these guys. And I re I know that our audience has connected with us on this level because I've connected with my audience on this level. I go to Unleash the Beast, Steve. I see you there. Um, I go to different tournaments and outings, I fish with different people, and we have great bonds with these people. Um, and I know we have it like that. We get social media DMs every day from listeners. Uh I was talking to a guy last night, um, he's up north uh up north uh moose hunting. I don't know his name off the top of my head, but uh you know, he sent me a note, I don't remember what it was, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, cool. And I'm like, uh, he's like, I'm up north moose hunting, but yada yada, fishing, fishing, fishing. And I said, you know, great, thanks for the note. That's cool, it's good. But uh what the important thing is that you shoot a moose. And so, you know, we end up talking for a half hour last night. Um I think you have to come to a point in your show where you just kind of maybe believe that you have a good product. I think we're there now after many years, after just not knowing. Um, and you just start sharing your life and your thoughts and treating your listeners like their buddies and that you've connected with them on an intellectual level. And I think that's gonna open the door to giving you some creative uh uh license and not just always talking about muskies 100% of the time. We're talking about muskies 90% of the time. Um, and the other 10%, you know what? Sometimes we just you know, and Chris is on the other side of the world. Like sometimes the only time I get to connect with him is when the microphones are on. Most of the time I only get to connect him with them when the microphones are on. So that is kind of cool. So there's an authentic dynamic. It's not like we're sitting here going, you know, let's talk about that thing we talked about last week and let's pretend that we didn't talk to each other about it. That doesn't happen. And so I think the takeaway is, you know, if you have a good product and and you know what, you have some validation, and again, you're treating people right. It's not like someone's DMs me and I'm like, uh, you know, tune into the show if you want the answers. It's not like that. Um, then it allows us to kind of step out and and have license with our creativity. Um, we're planning a really cool show to do a debate on record keeping and musk in the Muskie community with two people that everybody knows their names. Uh I'm not even gonna tease it until uh we get a solid commitment, but we right now we have yeses for both of them, and it's gonna be a really cool episode, and that's kind of outside our formula too. So step outside the formula, you know, that sort of thing. And uh that's that's what we've been doing. Those two things are they're pretty good, they're working pretty good for us.
SPEAKER_05:That's great.
SPEAKER_08:That's a great answer.
SPEAKER_05:Because as a as a guy that's kind of in the same uh, you know, in the same boat, like I'm uh I think actually this uh this is gonna be episode 120. Wow.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_05:Right on. Yeah, it uh it um they they roll on. They roll on. And uh sometimes I struggle a little bit with uh trying to find what I perceive as excellent content, right? And um keeping up with life and everything else, and and uh uh we're both in the same boat when it uh when when you start talking about uh commitments and everything else. I really I really don't have any commitments for this show other than the commitment to the people that give me their time in uh uh when they listen, right? And and and I take that fairly seriously. Like, I mean, I want to just like you, we want to provide a a great product and wonderful content. And uh I uh it's funny. Uh um lately I've I've done a few shows on uh entrepreneurs and uh um how um uh people have these wonderful stories of of perseverance and uh and dedication and how they've built their businesses because it ties in with me with Chaudiere. And um they're reaching out to me saying, hey, I'm a business owner, I uh I produced saddlebags and and uh it was uh it was very tough and but I persevered. Uh uh do you think that I that you should uh that that I would be a good fit for your show? Right?
SPEAKER_08:So I think if you think I think you you you have to start thinking backwards to a degree where like it's not like is this guy, is this saddlebag, is anybody interested in saddlebags? Well, maybe not, but like when you look at the jujitsu talk we just had, I don't know how many people listening care, but like we tie these lessons in that everybody's interested in, how to succeed, um, how to follow your dreams, how to have confidence in yourself, how to like if you all you need is someone who can tell an interesting story, and then you can tell these, you can tie in these life lessons that appeal to 100% of a given audience. Of everybody, and you know what, you just have to have the delivery and the level of engagement, and you do. I mean, in space, this is a great show, and uh you're a great host. And so, with that, I think if you kind of look at it a little differently and say, you know, this is the subject, but the lessons behind the subject are are the real good parts that make a good show 100.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, so listen, um, at this time of the year, this is a very uh this is a very exciting time of the year for for muscle. Yes, we're and and we are currently um at the end of October. I'm not even a hundred percent sure, probably around the 28th. Actually, it's my little brother Andy's birthday. I gotta phone him after we get off the show. Happy birthday, Andy, by the way. I know he'll never hear it on this show because he doesn't listen. But as far as muskie fishing goes, um, is this your favorite time of the year to catch?
SPEAKER_08:Oh, there's no doubt. Yeah, yeah. If anyone says otherwise, they're not a musky fisherman. I mean, like, look, is it my favorite day time of year to be out in a boat on the St. Lawrence River? Uh not really, because sometimes it's minus 20 and you freeze your ass off. But if you want, you know, there's look, there's two kinds of there's two kinds of musky anglers. People that are out there for fish and people that are out there for the fish.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:People that are out there for fish, they can go all, they can go to one of the easier lakes all year, wear a t-shirt, whatever, have a great time, and catch fish. And that's cool. I I have nothing against that, but that's not who I am. And the guys we fish with, we are looking for the fish. And the fish is going to be caught in in the cold weather months. Uh, and that's why we get excited for the fall in the in the early winter season, right? The big females are putting the feedback on, they're full of eggs, you know. And if you want to beat that, whatever, Ken O'Brien's fish, if you consider that the record 65 pounds or whatever that is, if you want to beat that record, that's this is when you're gonna get it. And you know what, you better be on the St. Lawrence, you better be on Georgian Bay, you better be on the Ottawa River, um, and maybe one or two other places. But uh, yeah, that's why. I mean, we're looking for the giant fish. Like we um we go, I I like to fish in the St. Lawrence River in the cold weather months. I I always take at least one trip there. I'm gonna be there in in a couple weeks. And uh it's so funny because the St. Lawrence River is notorious, right, for like uh gun running well, giants, but I'm talking like gun rug guns and drugs and smuggling and right. It's it's the freaking wild west over there. So every time we're there in the winter, first of all, we almost always have a helicopter over top of our boat for hours at a time. And we always get boarded once once uh once a trip, we get boarded. Like if we don't get boarded, we'll just because you're you know, you know the way it is. Like for muskie fishing, like we're in a trance by the the time, you know, by the the later half by the time that the sun goes down, you're in a trance. Because you're even if you're trolling, your body is burning so many calories, just trying to stay warm, you're always working the lines, it's freezing cold, you're exhausted, you're just in a trance. And I remember the one time I was with my buddy Alex, um uh and Alex says, uh, Did you hear that? And I'm like, I didn't hear anything. We just kind of and then I heard something, and I'm like, Did you hear that? And he's like, Yeah, I hear that. What is it? And we turn around, and there's this tack boat, these dudes, all tactical, black, and they got their hands on our gunnel, and their boat is now attached to our boat, and they're all looking at us. And it's funny because, like, and we're just we just turn around and look at them, we're like, hey, and you can tell in an instant they know who we are, like they know we're not who they suspect we are, because we're just too sick idiots, you know, staring. They're watching now, watching us for minutes, just sitting there staring at our screen. They see the tracks, you know, that we've kind of been in this area for the whole time, just kind of waiting for the bait fish to roll in and for the fish to strike. And with you within a second, we're all kind of laughing at each other and and you know, thanking the guys for looking out for us, and uh, and then away they go on their way. But um no way.
SPEAKER_05:So all drastically.
SPEAKER_08:These dudes this one time, these guys were all tacked out. Like sometimes we just get the normal like uh RCMP or whatever it is, but these guys were like everything was black. Like we did not see them, we didn't see them approach us, we could barely see them at the side of our boat. And uh that's gotta be a little scary. Firstly, yeah, it startles you, but when we're there, we kind of you know, if that happened to me on Lake Nipissing, I'd probably, you know, be a lot more uh uncomfortable with it. But we kind of know what the deal is there, especially with the helicopters, they're always kind of they always got their eyes on us, we can see. And uh and it's it's wild. But uh the that, you know, the the St. Lawrence and the Ottawa region, everyone's nuts over there. Like the the fishermen are nuts. That that's the craziest corridor for musky anglers. You know, they're the guys like you know, you hear the reports of like people getting their trailers smashed if they're at the wrong boat ramp. And it's just they're dude, they're so weird over there. They're all these old school Montrealers and Ottawa guys that are just crazy about their territory. It is so nuts over there. It's not like anywhere else in the province than it is over there. Um, I know guys get weird on St. Clair too, but it's different. I think on St. Clair, people just go nuts because there's so many people there and it and and everyone's just it's nuts over there, too. On top of each other. Everyone's on top of each other.
SPEAKER_05:So let's talk a little bit about this because this is all new to me. Like I fish muskies on the French River in Nippissang. I very rarely travel around fishing muskie because why? Right? But these these nuances, so you've got like totally crazy people over on the St. Lawrence over in Ottawa, and it's uh French English kind of deal. And then you're talking about St. Clair and what, like guys get a little bit uh rowdy, or you know, what's the deal?
SPEAKER_08:I only hear stories because I'm not a St. Clair guy. I fished there once and I had a great experience. It was with Mike Parker from Handlebars Lures, who's like the greatest guy, and uh we had a tough day with him, but you know what? We pulled through at the end of the day. Um yeah, from what I understand, I think it's a combination of like the way you fish there. Like guides will put six lines out and fish and and just zip around. Um, I think not everyone handles fish very particularly well over there because of for I think a lot of reasons. Number one, some some people, some some guideboats are just not really equipped for really good water level releases. Um, I think some people just don't care because of the numbers there. Um and then I think it's the the fact that you're fishing on top of each other. Now I heard really good things. We had a podcast uh just a couple weeks ago where one of the guys was talking about like the shore anglers at at St. Clair on the Thames and everything. It's a pretty good brotherhood and everybody takes care of each other, and that was really cool to hear. But I think a lot of the mania is driven by the the density there, yeah. And people trying to stay out of each other's way or not staying out of each other's way, you know.
SPEAKER_05:You I can I can see that totally because, like, I mean, on the on the upper fringe, when I can see more than two or three boats at a time on the whole river, I start getting irritated. Yeah, and then down there I couldn't imagine. It's like a highway. Yeah, well. So there's a um a shoreline fishery down there.
SPEAKER_08:Guys are fishing muskies off the yeah, I want to say it's the Thames River, but I could be wrong. But there's a pretty famous pier down at St. Clair where they're you're you're shoulder to shoulder. Really? Yeah, especially during like, you know, Dave Gray has the muskie brawl down there. And I think this year they have 200 anglers registered because there's a lot of there's a lot of money to be won at that tournament. It's a big, big, big tournament. Uh, and so you know what you'll get, you know, 90% of the anglers in boats or whatever that number is, and then you got a bunch of guys that still want that chase that money in that payday that that are standing on the shoreline.
SPEAKER_05:So it's it's uh are you allowed to fish live bait in that?
SPEAKER_08:Oh, I'm sure you are. I don't I don't know about in that tournament because I'm pretty sure you can't troll. And I know they have drones that you know patrol, it's crazy. Like this is crazy. Um, he was talking about getting a lie detector next year for the winners. Um but I don't know. I'm sure I'm sure you can sucker fish, it's permissible there. I don't know about the tournament. I imagine maybe not. I think I think maybe not, but I'm not sure. Huh. Right on. Yeah, you just need a shadzilla. It's it's like St. Clair in the fall. Yeah. The Shadzilla and just do what everybody else is doing, you'll get a fish. Or a bulldog. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah, great baits. Real bad.
SPEAKER_08:Well, they're just synonymous.
SPEAKER_05:They've come out with a solid body now.
SPEAKER_08:It's awesome. Yeah, I love it. Um, but like for years, you know, you've got now you got the Warhammers and all sorts of different really cool, you know, new rubber baits. But like for years, it was Bulldogs and Shadzilla's on St. Clair in the fall. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. But yeah, Shadzilla's new uh solid body. Mike sent me uh a box and I've been tossing them and I haven't gotten a bit yet, but I just I just took one trip with it and um it was the Sewell trip. And you know, we learned pretty quickly that there was only one bait that was working. Well, there's two baits that was working during that that trip, and we were so desperate for a fish, we really just wanted to go with what we saw was proven. I had I had hit on a fish early, so we kept that lure on one rod, and um, and then we had a guest that said, like this particular Dadson blade bait, you know, we want something that's not heavy, not sinking, because we want to we want to skim the five inches of the water that's between the weeds and the air. And so this was a specific blade that Johnny Dadson had made for this guide, and it was working and it was perfect for the terrain there. Um, I mean, that's that's something really to like a learning point for the listeners is like if you're going on a trip out of a lifetime like this, talk to talk to the lodge and talk to whoever, talk to, you know, if you have access to a bait maker like Johnny or somebody that's you know great at making baits and see what's going on up there because you don't want to like track all these baits to a spot and just not be able to use them. Like I have a lot of I have a lot of heavy spinner baits that I I uh I've gotten from Johnny and and from Ben Duke over at uh at Duke's Dozers. Uh and I like heavy spinner baits because I like the shield waters. And you know, there's spots on the French and on Nipissing where when you're fishing humps and stuff where you want you want to get that bait down a bit.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:No, you're not fishing over a weed bed. Uh, you know, sometimes you are there, but there's a lot of rock structure there. Um and so I like those heavier spinners for the rock structure. Um, and and I I I forgot my spinner baits. I went up to Lacks Hall, I forgot my my favorite baits. It was a tray, it was sitting in my garage. And I I got up there, I was mortified, and I said to my wife, I said, Go to my fishing table in my garage, take a picture. She sends it to me, and I'm like, there it is, sitting there. So I had her freaking overnight it. And now so by the time it got there, and the money I spent, by the time I got there, I while it was in transit, I learned that almost none of the baits in that tray were gonna be useful to me. Yeah. So I wish I had learned that lesson before I had left. And um, so I think that's uh kind of a good lesson to learn to share with the audience about you know, doing your research. And uh your lucky bait might not be your lucky bait if you're going to a uh a lake that has a different um, you know, topography. Yeah, and Sewell is very different. Sewell is, you know, every point we would we would we we we made a joke about it. It was like uh like that old uh National Lampoons vacation movie when they're stuck in the roundabout. Look, kids, Big Ben Parliament, and they're doing that for like nine hours and it gets dark and they're still saying that. Um but you get you get to uh a point where um you you just you're doing the same things. And I'm gonna lie to you if I'm telling you I didn't lose my train of thought there. I forget what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_05:No, no. You were we were talking about your overnighting your bait and um and um uh doing the research and you know and it being a great lesson, which like I mean, that is totally um uh a wonderful lesson. Yeah, and sometimes folks, you know, when you've gone to a place a few times and you've seen the the the place, you think you know it. But listen, I lived on the same place for well over a decade, and I still don't claim to know it, right? It's different day to day, week to week. And and even though you come the same week every year, that doesn't mean that it's the same week um as far as the fish are concerned, because it there's a lot of different factors that play into where they're gonna be and how they're gonna react. And not it's not just the first week of July, this is going to be this, right? Because number one, the weather is different.
SPEAKER_08:Weather Trump's all for sure. Um to finish, let me finish my thought because I got it back. Um, we would pull up to a spot and it became a joke because I'd say, you know, what does this spot look like under the water? And the guide would say, Well, it's a sandy loam that uh feeds into a weed bed uh next to rocks. And that was like literally how they described every single spot that we fished on Luxool. So getting back to the original thought, and that is that particular bait was ideally suited for much of the structure that we were targeting for that trip. And so had I known, I wouldn't, I would have literally brought way less like nine. 90% less baits than I brought.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:And you know, when you're paying these airlines, they just nickel and dime you for everything. So it really matters when you're traveling on a plane, which which we were. We were we flew to Thunder Bay and then drove into Suluco. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And what's that? About a four-hour drive from Thunder Bay?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah. If you're flying, yeah. We did it about four and a half hours. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Very cool. But it's a great, it's a great. I mean, you've done it, right?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:It's such an amazing uh you know, Trans-Canada adventure. It's so awesome. It's such a oh yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. We've not done the fly to Thunder Bay. We've driven from here all the way. And, you know, like I mean, I had no the first time that I did it, I was uh I was a kid, um maybe 1920, and a good buddy of mine, um, Eric uh Poole, uh, we decided we were gonna go fish Lake Nippigan. Oh, cool. Great fishing. And um the the I had no clue what northern Ontario was, what it looked like. The furthest north at that point I had been was like point of barrel. And to give you give uh the the the listeners an idea, point of barrel is you know three hours um north of Toronto on Highway 69. And and um and Lake Nipigan is um you know 14, 15 hours north. And um we borrowed my boss's boat, he had an old uh tri-hall glass boat. Um, and uh I had a 1989 Dodge Dakota Sport. And uh back in those days, gas was real cheap down south. So where we were, gas was cheap. So uh we filled up, you know, four jerry cans full of gas for the boat to throw in the back so we didn't have to spend money on the expensive gas up north. Well, we drove straight to Nippigan and Frank, we on that with with my little truck, I stopped at every available gas station. And uh I I um stopped in the town of Hearst, Ontario, gassed up, and um uh it was it was at night, and before we got to the next gas station, I run out of gas. Like that, it's it's trees and rocks up there on on the highway. And this is going back probably 30 years, 25 years ago. Less infrastructure. Um, yeah, yeah. Uh that but still, like I mean, there's a stretch there between Hurst and Longlack where you see nothing but trees and rocks for the better part of four hours.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And and um those experiences are are unbelievable. That's the real north. And um uh to to be in wilderness. And I've had the I've had the luxury to travel uh quite a bit uh across our country now with the Fishing Canada television show and drive out east and drive up north. And I'll tell you what, that um that drive to um to Kenora uh through Ontario is still the longest drive that we do, and we drive all the way to Nova Scotia.
SPEAKER_08:Right, yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_05:Like you can drive to Nova Scotia faster than you can drive to Kenora, Ontario.
SPEAKER_08:That is crazy.
SPEAKER_05:But yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08:So I will say, real quickly, well we're on this topic, and I'm trying to find a picture to show you here. Um, once you get to Sault Ste. Marie and you head west, it is that is my favorite leg of that drive. And oh, it's gorgeous. Parts of it where it looks like you're not even in Canada almost, right? Where you get these weird, almost mountainous terrains. This was coming down. So I took this picture. This was the night that the Tragically Hip were doing their final show, and it was broadcast on the CBC radio, and uh, we were flying to get to um uh to the Sioux so we could get into our hotel and watch the rest of the concert. And I'm a massive hip fan, like massive, and it was a sad night. It was a sad night for me, and you know, I was just sitting in my my cousin's van just with my headphones on, listening to the concert and really gloomy drive, and and but man, it was so dramatic, you know. That drive from from from Thunder Bay to the Sioux is just it's it's a thing, man. It's just everybody, every Canadian needs to do that once in their life. It it'll change you.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Well, especially when you're along Lake Superior and you come out and you can see the lake, and then you're back in the bush. And uh and and you say mountainous terrain. You're right. There's there's uh um not rocky mountains, but like I mean they're big rock outcroppings.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, put on some Gordon Lightfoot. Put on some Gordon Lightfoot and make that drive at night and see what happens.
SPEAKER_05:Absolutely. Absolutely. So listen, Frank, um last question. Um what's up for you next? Like, where are you setting your targets? Are you are you basically uh still focused on uh everything we talked about, which is a lot, or do you have uh do you have any any new aspirations on the horizon?
SPEAKER_08:Uh well with the show, we you know, we we don't know what's happening with the show from a an affiliate standpoint. Um I'm hoping I, you know, we can we can talk with Angelo and and have a talk about our future. And you know what? I don't know if it means we stay on board or we we we go our own separate ways and uh whatever the case is, I think we're we'll we'll all be happy and we'll all be friends and yeah and it'll be uh uh a positive development. Um the show is the show is on a great trajectory, and uh we're not gonna mess with the formula too much. Uh uh yeah, man, I don't know. I I have a young family, really focused on my young family right now. Um, and I want to buy a place. You know I want to buy a place. I I want to, you know, I just I really really grapple with it, you know. Like I feel like I need to, like, I set this goal so long in my life, and I want to get a cottage, and and and then sometimes I feel like like I would love to be tied to Nipissing French River. I it's my favorite place in the world. I don't there's nowhere I love going more than that. That is where my dad would fly me up. We my dad was a recreational pilot. We would always pile in and go to Lake Nipissing. That's where I learned how to fish. Well, one of the places I learned how to fish. The other was in in um uh just uh south of Ottawa. Um and and other parts of me want to, you know, just has like, why not just go and rent and this and that? But like I really feel like I want a place, and uh I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do it right now. I I've got a great opportunity in front of me, and uh I had a good call about it today, Steve. I just yeah, this is what I'm really wrestling with. So like what's what's in it for me is I gotta deal with this situation and I gotta figure out what I want to do with this particular opportunity in front of me. And if I take it, okay, and if I don't, also okay. But um I wanna I wanna get a place, I wanna put a podcast studio on the water and bring anglers in and do our show from the water, these great Canadian waters, and really have a have a Mecca for Ugly Pike. Um it's so weird, you know. This is not like we don't make money doing this, you know? Like we've had sponsors, but that's we've kind of put that on hold until we understand kind of what our relationship's gonna be going forward with with the production company. Um, and that'll come back. We're gonna we'll we'll take uh sponsors again in the near future. But like I've got these all these big plans revolve around the show and fishing. It's almost like like I've got some really big deals lined up in my business life and my entrepreneur life, but like my priority really is fishing and the show, and and I really believe that we can do really great things. Um, I I feel like we are this big with the show, and I think we can be really big with the show. Not that we ever aspired to that, but I just have a feeling that something really big is gonna happen with us. I just I can't shake the feeling, and I know Chris feels the same way, and it's why we haven't stopped doing it amidst all the inconveniences and lining up the time zones, and this um guest just bailed on us in the yada yada. I just feel in my gut that this show is a rocket waiting to explode. Um, I just I don't know. I just feel it. And so we we we won't stop, we won't stop trying to make it better, and we won't stop networking, and we won't stop uh taking opportunities. It's just something that I feel like I just I have no reason to feel this, I just feel that way. And so that's what I'm that's what I'm looking for in the future, really.
SPEAKER_05:That a boy, that a boy, Frank Angaro, ugly pike. Uh, folks, head on over and listen to him there, part of the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Network. And um, Frank, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today.
SPEAKER_08:Steve, you are a class act and someone I'm uh really happy I got to know, and someone that's uh in my life that I value, even though we don't talk every day. But when we do talk, man, it's always a true pleasure. So thank you.
SPEAKER_05:Well, thank you. Thanks for yesterday. I appreciate it. Thanks for the counsel. I appreciated that. Uh the pleasure is all mine. All right, man. You know that. Um, and uh folks, listen, I want to thank all of you for getting to this point. Really appreciate you listening. And um, throw out a like, subscribe, all that funky stuff. I'm not exactly sure where to find it. Uh, but uh hey, if you find a subscribe button and you can subscribe, wonderful. That's great. And uh any questions, uh comments, you know where to get me. Steve.n at fishingcanada.com. And uh uh while you're thinking about that, you can head on over to fishingcanada.com and get in on all the free giveaways. And uh I want to thank some very special people up at Lakeside Marine in Red Lake, Ontario. Folks, if you're in Northern Ontario, you've got to stop and have a chat with uh with the folks over there. They're wonderful. And uh the customer service is second to none. And uh uh my little buddy Nixon out there who listens to the show and uh and uh he uh he falls asleep to my voice, and I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but night night Nixon. And uh thus brings us to the conclusion of another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North.
SPEAKER_06:I'm a good old boy, never meaning no harm. I'll be the whole you ever saw. I've been reeling in the hog since the day I was born. Bendin my rum. Sven my mind. Someday I might on a lodge and how'd be fine. I'll be making my way, the only way I know how. About a lodge and live my dream. And now I'm here talking about how life can be as good as it seems. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Hi, everybody, I'm Angelo Viola. And I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favorite fishing show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right. Every Thursday, Ann and I will be right here in your ears, bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Hmm. Now, what are we gonna talk about for two hours every week? Well, you know there's gonna be a lot of fishing.
SPEAKER_09:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes, all the other guys would go golfing.
SPEAKER_09:Me and Garkin Turk, and all the Russians would go fishing. The scientists. But now that we're reforesting and letting things, it's the perfect transmission environment for line.
SPEAKER_07:Chefs, if any game isn't cooked properly, marinated for you will taste it.
SPEAKER_03:And whoever else will pick up the phone. Wherever you are, Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_00:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear. But they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Oulette, and I was honored to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as Chaga, a tree conch, with centuries of medicinal use by indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials, and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession. And I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts.