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Diaries of a Lodge Owner
In 2009, sheet metal mechanic, Steve Niedzwiecki, turned his passions into reality using steadfast belief in himself and his vision by investing everything in a once-obscure run-down Canadian fishing lodge.
After ten years, the now-former lodge owner and co-host of The Fish'n Canada Show is here to share stories of inspiration, relationships and the many struggles that turned his monumental gamble into one of the most legendary lodges in the country.
From anglers to entrepreneurs, athletes to conservationists; you never know who is going to stop by the lodge.
Diaries of a Lodge Owner
Episode 120: The Mind of a Guide - Lessons from 10,000 Casts
We sit down with French River muskie guide Pat Tryon to explore what actually makes a trip unforgettable: humility, timing, and a sharp eye for what guests truly want. From long days chasing a single follow to easy afternoons spotting eagles and picking blueberries, we unpack how reading people—more than reading side imaging—defines success on the water.
Pat takes us back to the moment that reshaped his career: watching a guest catch a bigger muskie than he’d ever landed and choosing joy over jealousy. That decision set the tone for a guiding philosophy built on service, not scoreboard. We get into the real craft: teaching mechanics like figure eights and lure cadence when it matters, keeping quiet when it serves the day, and knowing when to protect a spot without shortchanging a paying guest. We also dig into the ethics of information sharing among guides, the practical impact of walleye slot limits, and how bass tournaments can shift entire ecosystems when fish are weighed far from where they were caught.
Behind the scenes, Pat opens the playbook on the invisible work that makes everything feel effortless: off‑season waypoint management, hyper‑organized tackle systems, and end‑of‑day resets so the boat is turnkey at dawn. On the lodge side, we talk pairing the right guide to the right guest and keeping personal drama “behind the line” so mornings start with calm water, good coffee, and zero tension. The thread through it all is respect—for guests, for colleagues, and for the resource. And the payoff? Friendships that outlast any bite window, the kind that bring people back year after year because they feel part of something bigger than a single fish.
If you enjoy thoughtful stories about guiding, lodge life, and the reality of pressured fisheries on the French River and Lake Nipissing, you’ll feel right at home here. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves the craft as much as the catch, and leave a review to help more anglers find the show.
I tell you what, right now, my biggest advice to any guide who's a phenomenal stick, bro, you're the best. I get it. You are like so good at fishing. You know your body of water. You can tie the best knots. I get it. Have a little bit of humility when it comes to guest interaction because all of how good you are at fishing really matters to you a lot more than it does to the guests. Yes, they want to catch fish, but if they're not having a good time on that boat, it's all for nothing.
SPEAKER_06:This week on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Networks, Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North, we step into the boots of some of the people at the heart of every fishing lodge. The guides. The ones who leave the dock before dawn, chase the weather, and somehow keep smiling when the fish don't show. On this show, we sit down with longtime friend, French River Guide, and musky hunter Pat Tryon. A man who spent decades reading the moods of both fish and people, we'll talk about the long grind of guiding, the unseen work behind every trophy photo, and the balance between patience, pressure, and pride. So if you've ever wondered what really makes a guide tick and love the stories between the casts, this one's for you. Here's my conversation with Pat Tryon. Welcome, folks, to another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner Stories of the North. And uh yes, I'm gonna say it again. I am extremely excited about these. Uh actually, I say these because we are doing a couple of podcasts with our outstanding friend Pat Tryon. Yes, folks, Pat's in the house, and I'm really, really excited for all of us for these. So hey, listen, I don't know how these are gonna drop, but you're just gonna have to look for for the Pat uh episodes because uh they're going to be amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Pat, welcome to the uh show on that note. Thank you, Steven. Setting the bar high as we always do. I love it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, well, you know, that's uh that's uh that's the way we do it around here. So how are you, brother?
SPEAKER_03:I'm great, Steven.
SPEAKER_06:How are you doing? Doing good, doing good. I'm uh we uh we just had the opportunity to spend a little bit of time together, and uh um that ignited my want to uh to have you back on the show so I could share you with all of the uh Diaries family.
SPEAKER_03:I I love it, buddy. I love to be here. I love being on the show. And uh any anybody who's willing to listen to certainly my ramblings is a friend of me. But uh I tell you what, man, it's uh it was a great week that we had, and I am right musky-minded right now. I'm I'm I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, well, listen, um, you take that obsession and we're gonna spread it on thick like peanut butter. But this first episode that I want to talk to you about, um I want to go back because one of the best episodes that we ever did was the guy how uh what was it called? Guy A Guide to Guide, which was a great play on words, brilliant uh um title for it, uh Patrick. I'm pretty sure you come up with it, but uh I'll take some.
SPEAKER_03:We we came up with it, Steven. We came up with it.
SPEAKER_06:So this time um I've come up with the uh uh the thought that um um uh is uh uh well let me just throw it right out there. All right. Uh The Mind of a Guide, Lessons from 10,000 Casts.
SPEAKER_11:Oh, now that's nice, buddy.
SPEAKER_06:You like that one?
SPEAKER_11:I like that one a lot.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. And and uh what we'll do, I want to take both of us back to when we first started because our our our uh paths crossed fairly um um fairly quickly into my tenure at Chaudiere, like almost immediately. And um just talk about you can talk about uh um your journey to becoming a guide, and I'm gonna draw parallels as a journey to becoming a lodge owner. Um so let's let's go back to that early grind. Um Pat, what first got you into guiding? And um what really compelled you to do that?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what a great question. You know, I think I think most fishermen who are really drawn to the sport have an innate desire to share it with other people. Um and you see this a lot with guys, they'll go by the boat, they'll have all the gear. And when when fishing, you know, as it so often occurs, you know, the the people that you might be excited about fishing with, they fall off over the years, but you're still there and you're always reaching out to other people. Jump in the boat with me, let's go fish, let's go do this. So I think nobody, not not a lot of people really enjoy fishing alone. I know a lot of guys do it, but I mean, most people, outside of maybe fly fishermen, I feel like I see a lot of solo fly fishermen to connect with the planet, which is how I kind of approach fly fishing as well. But even then, I still have this desire. I want to, I want to show people. I want to, I want, I want them to experience that. And the big jump for me with with, you know, when I was a guest, this is going all the way back to when Jerry owned the lodge.
SPEAKER_06:Yes. And we're talking like late 90s, early 2000s, or late 90s and 2000s.
SPEAKER_03:Yep, that's right. Uh I I'd I'd be, you know, I'm a kid. I'm I'm I'm I'm 14 years old running around in a cedar strip. And I'm I'm my mom didn't want to wake up early and go fishing, you know, right at sunrise. She wanted to go to the Chaudiere breakfast, the, you know, let me get up at seven and go eat and ha and start out my day, you know, in a resort-like setting. Well, hey, listen, now you ask me, and I'm going to that breakfast every time, brother.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the 14-year-old Patrick.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, you know, you're obsessed, and and I'd be, I'd be going around to the tables at night asking people, hey, do you want to go fishing with me? I'll I'll run the boat. I'll do, you know, so I I was just drawn to go do it. I I had I had, and my mom wouldn't let me go solo, nor did I really want to be. But some of even back then, man, this is this is early days of me figuring out Muskie and really just the the French River and Lake Nipissing as a whole, right? This is this is the very I don't have 35,000 waypoints on it at this point. I'm I don't even have a GPS, bro. I'm out there with uh neither does anybody else. Right. I mean, it was it was just the early days. And even then, some of my most fond memories were watching other people catch muskies, which by the way, brother, at the at the time I was with someone, they got they they caught a 49-incher. It was bigger than a muskie I'd have ever caught at that point. And I remember feeling it at the same time I felt so so happy, right? Like, you know, this picture, it's beautiful, it's this great big at the time, it's like the biggest muskie I've seen out of the water, right? And at the same time, just deflated jealousy, you know? Like, like, why, you know, so like that, okay, so that moment was this weird split. I had to choose. Like, I could either choose in that moment to feel anger and frustration, and it was there. I mean, it was weird, man. It was, I guess it's ambivalence. You're you're feeling two things at once. It's not that you're feeling nothing, you're feeling two different things, and you don't know, you don't know how to feel about that. Like, how do I feel about my feelings? And by the way, at this point, I've done no work. Yes, I've done no mental work into uh understanding feelings and I remember those feelings. But I so I'm at this crossroads. I'm either happy or I'm or I'm not, and I'm jealous. And I and I even in that moment at that age, I realized, you know, at the heart of it, that first feeling that came through was was happiness, it was love, it was excitement for him. It was only when I started thinking about it that the anger or the frustration.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I why couldn't that be me?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, and it should have been, Steve. I I was throwing the exact same lure. Uh his was purple and mine was black. And I worked way harder. And not only that, it bit his lure and he didn't even set the hook. The thing tailwalked out of the water, a four-footer near uh what it was, 49, uh four-footers tailwalking, and it and his lure was never in its mouth. It threw it and it hit the water, and Buddy reels it in, and I'm at the boat, and I said, Well, cast back. He cast and it ate it again, and it came right back and ate his a little, it was a little eagle tail, the the the little stone with a seven-inch blade, and and buddy, it came right back and smashed it, and he and he and he brought it in. And you want to know what the craziest thing was? The kid who caught it was the owner's son, Patrick. No way, like yes, yes, yes, and it it was the first time, okay. It was the first one over four feet I'd ever seen. It was the first time I'd watched a fish eat, miss it, and then come back and eat again, which has opened up a lot of pretty good fish, just not giving up on it. Yeah. Um, but more importantly, back to the bigger point. That point I could have chosen one away, and I said, you know what? The joy of seeing that happen is was way, way more powerful than the temporary downer of my selfishness coming through. And I just right then and there I said, I need, I need to do this. Like I, for whatever reason, man, I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm really good at being in the right place at the right time a lot, but the muskies seem to bite. And if I can share that with people, brother, that's what makes me happy. And I think it was chasing that type of lasting happiness as opposed to the fleetingness because now you've caught a 49, but now I want a 50.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Then you catch a 50, but now I want a 50. I mean it never is unless you catch it. That's right. It's so much more powerful, Stevie. You know that as a lodge owner, the experiences you gave people are so much more powerful than the money they gave you. And the money's important, but it it's almost not.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're right. So on uh thinking about that, um, what as a young guide did Pat tryon learn in those first, very first couple of seasons, you know, and with you, um, we'll say first couple of seasons, but because you were basically guiding as a kid for all of those years, uh, going out and wanting to take people fishing, really, so that you could get somebody in the boat with you. But take all of that time and your first couple of years of guiding and in that early grind, what did you learn about your craft?
SPEAKER_03:Wow. I tell you, so the craft is a big, that's a big definition because that's your technical knowledge on the water. Uh, but the craft with guiding is also the interaction with the guests.
SPEAKER_06:100%.
SPEAKER_03:And I was where I needed to improve the most was with my, was with my reading of the guests. It wasn't even the water. I mean, I was an okay fisherman even back then. You know, I uh you put yourself out in position, you're gonna catch fish. But where I was weakest and where I needed the most help, uh, and where you've helped me a tremendous amount, is in how do you read people and give the person the experience that they want. And I think in the very early days, I was kind of bent on on here's what we're going to do, you're gonna come and you're gonna enjoy it. And and and if that didn't line up with the guests and what they wanted, too bad, so sad. I hadn't even considered it. See, but then with time and feedback, and I got to hear a lot about the guest experience through you. They would share with you how their time was on the water, and then you could come to me and say, Hey, Pat, and boy, I know those were tough conversations for you. Hey, Pat, they had a great time, but listen. And you'd you'd give me coaching, really great sound advice, but ego-driven Pat, who's, you know, by the time I was with you, now this is post-university. I mean, I've I've done a lot of work and and you know, experienced a lot of different fields, but still my ego was so strong back then. It was very hard for even you to come to me and give me any kind of criticism because now I'm just like, I'm sorry, dude. I'm Pat, you didn't tell me what to do, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, well, and it wasn't so much criticism. It was, it was um planting the proper seeds for you to pick up when you were ready to grab them.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, I can't imagine how hard that must have been for you, buddy. Because, man, now you can come to me and say, hey, Pat, listen and and and lay it out. But I get it. Back then, that's that's a hard, that's a hard thing when you're dealing with a kid in their 20s or 30s or whatever it was. So yeah, man, that that was the real part I needed to learn. Like guiding is so much less about the fish, man. Like, so much, so much less about the fish. Yeah, you gotta know what you're doing. You gotta know the water. You can't, you can't be, you know, you gotta know all of that detail. But if you can cater the experience, and that we talked about that on Guide to Guide, if you can cater the experience to the guest, man, that that's the whole job. And that was where I really needed to do work. And you helped me every step of the way, brother. You were you were there and it made me, however, I figured it out. I I you planted seeds or you we had a direct conversation, however that information needed to percolate. Once I grabbed it with an open mind and an open heart and could apply it, I just became better. So I tell you what, right now, my biggest advice to any guide who's a phenomenal stick, bro, you're the best. I get it. You are like so good at fishing. You know your body of water, you can tie the best knots, I get it. Have a little bit of humility when it comes to guest interaction because all of how good you are at fishing really matters to you a lot more than it does to the guests. Yes, they want to catch fish, but if they're not having a good time on that boat, it's all for nothing. It doesn't matter how good you are or how good the fishing was yesterday. You can always make today a wonderful experience, whether the fish participate or not. Get good at that, and you'll be the best guide in your area, guaranteed.
SPEAKER_06:That is a thousand percent right. That is the way that I I um that is what I learned when I first started um business in general, and in particular when I bought Chaudi Air. Like that, uh, because and and you can look at the guides that are unbelievable sticks, like you're talking about. The guys that are so technically sound that they could they could compete in any tournament and and win. Um, and then you've got uh and and they go out and and and not even just that person, any guide in particular, and there are guides like this, they believe that their job is to put fish in the boat, and people are paying me to um catch and see fish, and they'll go out and they'll make sure fish come in the boat. In my opinion, a guide should never pick up a fishing rod. Your job is to to show people how to fish, but it's not always the case, and that that type of guide who says, You had a great time. We caught a 50-incher. Like, what more do you want? Right? Versus the guide that that finds that um the the you've got a a couple out there and and they want to see um the eagle's nest, and they wanna they wanna catch uh, you know, just any kind of fish, but it's more important that they get to go blueberry picking uh at lunchtime. Um the so you really have to gauge yourself on guest experience, is what I'm trying to say.
SPEAKER_03:A thousand percent.
SPEAKER_06:And and with me, um it was very there's there's there's lodge owners, and I've seen them, believe me. I've uh I've had the opportunity now to go to um a lot of different places through Fishing Canada, and um you get the lodge owners, and everybody is always awesome to us. It's just the way it is, and you know, and for the most part, every lodge owner is awesome to their guests, but the difference between the good lodge owner and the great lodge owner is the good lodge owner uh provides um a unbelievable experience that they believe their guests want. And and in some cases, you'll attract people that want that because um you're gonna turn the ones that don't want your idea off and they won't come back. There's the lodge owner that cares about every individual person and takes the time to understand their guests and sometimes cater to people who don't actually want to fish, who are there for different things. It's just like the guide who who gets to know his guests, and um, it is so important. That's the difference between good and greatness. And the key between both lodge owning and guiding is understand your guests and understand what kind of experience they want. And those guides and and lodge owners that get that they take pride and and love in every different experience that they give somebody if you hit what they want and not what you want. And sometimes you've got to look past that tree of what you want to see the forest of what they want. And that is where the gold is, right?
SPEAKER_03:The deep gold. In fact, it would be easy if they would just tell us, but even if you point blank ask, people are often responding in a way that's still centered around what they think you want to hear. Yes. And it's in looking past, even if you ask, well, listen, you should. What do you want to get out of this day? But you still need to watch the behaviors, what they're saying, because you can discern what's actually important by talking to them. Yes. But see, that's part, I mean, you have to feel them. Yes.
SPEAKER_06:You feel like I mean, you can in the dining room, okay? I would walk through the dining room and I would ask people all the time, how was your day? That that's how I started my conversations. And there were an especially in the early days, a number of times where I would say, How was your day today? And um, you know, I'll just I'll just pick on Chris and Sue Shock. Now, the the the their guests of the lodge. This situation never happened with them, but I go up and I'd say, Hey, Chris, Sue, how was your day? And Chris would say, Oh, it was pretty good. And Susan would say, it was okay. And then, you know, well, that I'm feeling that there is something wrong here, right? I I'm expecting great. And if, well, you know, I would point blank say, Listen, um, I can tell Sue that there's something um bothering you. Um, can we talk about that at the cottage after dinner and we'll get everything fixed up, right? Because I know here in the dining room is not the place, but I really need to understand what's going on. And, you know, sometimes they were even a little hesitant to do that. And that's when you knew they that they were upset about something. But I always, I always ended up having those meetings. And this meeting in particular with a with a couple, I forget their names, that's why I'm using Chris and Sue. Um, and that's not like me, but still, um, that conversation was imperative to my learning, right? Because I'm building these thoughts as I'm going in. And when you're going in and talking to people about them paying for an experience that they're not enjoying, that's a difficult conversation. That is the that comes with a lot of stress, and I can totally understand why a lot of either guides or lodge owners would want to avoid that situation because it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel good, and it didn't feel good for me knowing that what I'm providing is not enjoyable because that I I uh I know what I have can be enjoyable. So when I would go and I would force myself to go into these conversations, um, and when I would go into a conversation like this and say, and this was the first time that that the feeling or the thought when I was talking to these people, um, you know, I I it come out. I I need you to help me give you the most outstanding experience that I can, but until I understand what that is, um I I can't, I I I need you to help me, right? And that was part of the idea and the thoughts of making people become part of Chaudiere, right? It's not my place. I'm I need you to help me make this experience better, not only for you, but for every guest that comes in behind you. And once I I started understanding these these thoughts and and feelings, really, is what it was, it felt good to say to somebody that I knew was not happy, listen, I just I just need your help. Um, and when you ask uh people for that kind of of um help, when you're in such a monumental position in life, um, and then they come up with it, they come everybody benefits, right? So that's the that was really the the most important lesson that I ever learned as a lodge owner in those early days. But um it was and and that's important for guides too, right? Like, I mean that's that's that's important. And uh if you can figure that out, then the world is your oyster, and you do it feeling good about yourself and about everybody that's around you, right? So anyway, that was a that was a great little conversation uh to start off this show.
SPEAKER_03:It was a great one. I don't think we've ever had a bad conversation.
SPEAKER_06:No, never.
SPEAKER_03:I you know, I'm gonna build just I yeah, as you were finishing up that point and you started bringing it back about the guiding. It is it's interesting because I remember from talking to you those times that the guest helped you to understand what they needed, you could then ensure that was always done for every guest moving forward. Now, no, no guest has to ever deal with that again because we could do a little preemptive work before the guest gets there or behind the scenes, sort of that invisible work that's happening.
SPEAKER_06:Certain, whatever it is builded into the employee handbook, into teaching everybody, into building the whole structure.
SPEAKER_03:And if you approach any business, not just guiding or lodge industry, it just happens to work really well because we're working with people so closely. But in any business, if you it's an iterative approach, you're you're constantly refining, you're constantly improving. And how could you not have an improvement over time that is that is palpable and measurable? I mean, I would have people come back and comment about, for instance, the state of the boat being even nicer than before. And I always prided myself on having the cleanest, tidiest, I don't want to say cleanest, none of the boats were dirty, but but you know, the tidiest, most organized uh boat possible. And and if you if you listen in earnest to people and and you really pay attention, they tell you, they tell you where you may be lacking, though they never say it in those words.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But as long as you're tuned in and genuinely listening to people, man, you will always improve. Just just and again, you don't have to go out and do every single thing somebody says, but but you do improve over time, and that's key is that's key. You're always improving.
SPEAKER_06:And you didn't have to do everything on that list. I would always, when I go and talk to these people and say, I need your help, I would take a uh a pen and a piece of paper, actually, a pencil and a piece of paper. And as they were saying, all of the, you know, my garbage wasn't emptied, and you know, the the I asked for a pillow, but I didn't get it, or you know, I tripped over this this this broken board, or you know, you make note of all of these different things and just the simple act of you sitting down and and and asking somebody for their opinion and their thoughts and writing them on a piece of paper instead of sitting and and fumbling with your phone because you hear that the text thing went off and now you're looking at your phone. No, I had that piece of paper, I wrote everything down, and it makes them feel so good. And then I would if you could I I would definitely try and get as many uh jobs or or points on that list ticked off while they were there, but if you only did one or two of those, it makes a huge difference. And then if you can remove another one off before they come the following year, that makes a huge difference. And again, I coupled all of that with verbiage, and that was one of the second biggest uh lessons that I learned um in the early days is making sure that people understand that this is not my place. Uh yeah, I I I'm the curator that pays the mortgage, but this place is not my place. This place is our place, it's everybody's place because it it there were people, and again, this is true for the shocks. I don't know why Chris and Sue have come to my mind, but they have. Hey, Chris, Sue, big shout out to you. But um, they've been coming for, I don't even know now, 65 years, Chris for sure. I don't know about Sue. Sue's is probably only like, you know, 45 years, but anyway, it doesn't matter. How is the Chaudiere Lodge more mine than it is theirs? I would argue the opposite. It's been uh they they've been coming there for longer than basically I've been alive, right? So, and giving people ownership of your business is is one of the biggest things that I think you can do, um, especially when you're in a uh a tourism-oriented um uh sector, right?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06:So, anyway, and to to implement all of that, I I had to first of all get it straight in my mind, and then I I had to convey my thoughts to sometimes 20. to 25 different people that I had at the lodge um working uh there and get it through to the to the guests and um I that that was that was um um a really hard thing for me to try and figure out was trying to teach people how I wanted them to work to give the experience that I want for the guests to the guests because I'm one guy as much and and and I did really put myself out there and be with everybody at the lodge as much as I could but I couldn't be there all the time and um um you know again the one thing that I learned about teaching um staff was um the same way that I I dealt with the guests you know this isn't my place it's our place and and if you can take pride in giving somebody an experience and that's our goal our goal is to give some wonderful people an absolutely fantastic experience they come as guests and they leave as friends they come as guests they leave as family that was the always the mantra right and and that's how I taught tried to teach everybody right and I don't even want to say teach but at the end of the day I was I was the owner and I was the guy that had to make sure that the experiences were being had and and I had to teach everybody and and that was the the the way that I I taught was was simply that when you're in the wilds of northwestern Ontario you need gear you can trust and a team that's got your back that's Lakeside Marine in Red Lake Ontario family owned since 1988 they're your go-to pro camp dealer built for the North from the Amaha boats and motors to everything in between we don't just sell you here we stand behind it Lakeside Marine rugged reliable ready back in 2016 Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you.
SPEAKER_09:Thus, the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America.
SPEAKER_10:Step into the world of angling adventures and embrace the thrill of the catch with the Ugly Pike Podcast. Join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous Fish of 10,000 casts.
SPEAKER_09:The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing it's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate anglers who share the same love for the sport. Through laughter through camaraderie and an unwavering spirit of adventure this podcast will bring people together.
SPEAKER_06:Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling adventures tight lines everyone find Uglypike now on Spotify Apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts now when you're on the boat with guests um what what are your teaching methods like I mean how do you teach um um do you teach uh your your reading the water versus your mechanics and timing for figure eights and you know when do I change a lure and you know what are you and you can take all these questions that you've got from guests because they want to learn right what what did you teach? What was the focus on what you taught people?
SPEAKER_03:Well it always depends on what the type of day is if you're going out casting for muskie and you're fishing with somebody who has never cast a musky lure in their life that's a very different starting point than the guy who's showing up who lives, you know, I I had guided people who lived in the the general area and just wanted to understand the body of water better. Yeah who are then showing up with their own boat and coming out fishing. That day looks a lot different than now another example of somebody coming up maybe from the States or who lives far away. They're adept at muskie fishing they're only there you know one week a year and I can be a little more forthcoming with information like spots, for instance, or or techniques on what's really popping to somebody like that as opposed to somebody showing up who lives on the lake, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah yeah who I who now who now I'm that's always tough right I mean you've built it you've taken years to learn what you've learned about a body of water and then you get a cottager call you up and say hey can I can you take me to all of your best spots so I can go and pound them every day of the summer that I'm there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah I know that's that's that's and and at the same time you gotta do like I just I don't have a bone in my body that would allow me to not give my all to somebody who's paying me to teach them. I I couldn't possibly so even in the situations where I know they're gonna be showing up in every instance that happened unbelievably we always caught fish. They were not never did we get a giant which you know probably is a good thing. But had we got a giant I guarantee it wouldn't have been on a prime spot because I was only hitting the secondary or tertiary spots where the muskies are I mean listen that's they hang out there. Who who am I to say a big one won't be set up here on a given day because they will at some point. It's just it's maybe not the highest percentage spot or like the prime spot on the spot say like a say the one of the best reefs or the best reef in the area that that point that sticks right into the wind for instance and you know if a muskie sitting on that spot if you get your bait I I I I joke because Ray Byrne, your boy is starting to really get into muskie and I've been I've been trying to help him and you know teach him from my lifelong learning and one of the things that fishermen have a tendency to do is get really hung up on bait. What bait this and I've I all week I was saying burner when the when the muskie's hungry it'll eat a shoe. They don't you just you you just got to get to that hungry muskie. Well I don't want those spots going out to the world right that's taken 20 years to figure out where are they sitting when they're gonna eat. And if you can figure that out and then you go hit a bunch of high percentage spots odds are you're gonna catch a fish. But but now I'm put into a position where I've got to find those secondary or again the tertiary like the the not prime spots but where there's still going to be fish they're just typically not going to be the same caliber. And that's hard man that's that's that's that's walking a real fine line when it comes to providing your your guest whoever that may be your client your guest I call them all guests but you know providing that person who's paying you for a day with the information that they're desiring to get or the experience between always giving that and maintaining a level of of control over your own business and your own craft and man that's hard. That's a tough that's a tough talk that's a whole whole conversation right there.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah it absolutely and uh uh just to follow up a little bit on that um do you feel those same thoughts with all species of fish or is it just muskie?
SPEAKER_03:Well I think it applies to muskie so much more because there's just so many fewer of them. So okay um that's a good question. Yes to a degree there's there's a few and this is going because way back when before I know they've gone back to a slot where they got to be within the slot. In the early days that I was going up there the walleye I'm talking about walleye now not when I'm talking about slots in the very early days they could be below a certain size or above a certain size that you could keep them. Then we went to an 18.1 inch minimum 46 centimeters I think and when that happened I noticed I became way more secretive about walleye spots because there were a couple really only two man I've I've you know them only a couple where you could go there and almost every single day get one keeper but if you keepers were tough to get over 18 inches were they ever man they were for a while if you had a keeper you won the day bro like none of us were getting keepers for a while. Then we figured it out but these these really key spots you could if I pulled in there and I got a keeper I would leave yeah it didn't even matter if I saw the second I had one keeper walleye because now I know on an 18 inch walleye once we fillet them I can cut those full those Y fillets into two big strips and I've got short I've got a piece of fish for four guys I don't need to eat the fish. So we only needed one walleye because in addition to the the beans and the potato, the you know the fries like I've got lunch covered with one keeper walleye right if I had five or six guys it's a different story. But with up to four dudes I only need one keeper walleye when they were that size.
SPEAKER_06:So and you knew there were more keeper walleye down there that you need for your next couple of guests.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe tomorrow morning I I'm leaving the dock without lunch. So I need to keep that spot. So it was very hard because at the time there's other guides on the water fish and walleye who are extremely good fishermen and I don't want them to see me on one specific spot all the time because anybody who understands what's going, you know, how how the fish is going on, they're they're they're gonna be all over that spot. But but now you start looking at the lodge guides specifically because there's no guides all over out there. But I we also need every guest catching keeper walleye. So now I know a piece of information that means we can catch keeper walleye how can I not share it with with the other guides because they've they need keeper walleye too and if it helps them I'm only helping the guest. So there's all of these subparadigms and now which guides am I okay wanting that information because sometimes a guide you'd share something with and buddy they're racing you to the spot that day and I'm like whoa man like at least give me a chance with with the spot before you know yeah so anyway the the number of different thought processes and the roadmap to what you share I mean you really just got to be in the moment and trust the guys that you trust and withhold the rest I guess I don't know it's hard it's really hard to make a living doing it man.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah yeah yeah yeah no that's uh that's interesting because it is uh well and and for me um I could draw a uh well draw a picture not a picture this is a this is a truth um I love bass fishing and um um I found a spot to bass fish um and it was Chris shock that showed me and Chris shock showed me wigwam and um uh just out of happenstance he took me out when I first bought the lodge and he's a pike fisherman and we went up to Wigwam and it's a beautiful big bay where Chris fishes pike and uh I said to him uh hey you see those pencil weeds back there you ever caught a bass on a on a on a plastic worm nope you want to wow all right I'll give it a shot go up there throw three four casts find really nice bass up in the back um go pike fishing again because Chris didn't that with the two fish was enough for him and uh and then subsequently over a decade do probably seven bass related fishing shows all based out of that spot and and another spot and then um the world seeing it and weather and then all of a sudden all of these bass uh tournaments that are going on on um Lake Nipissing there's guys coming in and in bass boats with tournament stickers and you know uh going into Wigwam and raping and pillaging it and taking all of the biggest bass out of there driving them like what is it 30 miles to North Bay driving 30 miles to North Bay where those bass and and largemouth in particular are weighted in put into the live release boat and the live release boat's supposed to kind of make a bit of a tour to drop bass off but inevitably they leave the harbor they go do do do do do do do anybody looking perfect pull the old trapdoor and all the bass from wigwam now live in front of the docks at North Bay.
SPEAKER_03:Yep and and it it kind of sucks kinda kinda sucks I mean brother you go from having a bite you can count on you know as a guy you you know as even as a lodge I can go take guests there and go no matter how their stay I could go rip them out there and catch some bass to now there's like none in I mean it's crazy. So yeah pretty empty well that's the exact mentality I was referring to with you got to be careful now now take that but this is your livelihood for catching lunch every day. Yeah you need those walleye and you know there was one I there was one guide Matt Matt O'Brien I shared everything I didn't I don't even I just say everything if I had information I told him because if he had information he's telling me and guaranteed as many or more times that he shared something with me I was able to utilize and benefit from so symbiotic is is the most I mean at the least the relationship with symbiotic we're both benefiting. And he's like a brother to me right and I just I picked the one guy but that that information spread that flow of information you've got to be careful how where do you stop that flow of information on one hand we all want to share our craft with the world we want to show everybody how amazing something is but the more people you show the more that know about it the more that come and do the same thing in the same place at the same time that you're in there now trying to make a living and that's where it gets crowded. That's where it gets crowded. But even then okay the bass is a different story because they are just removing them right out right out of the out of the system.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But like with the muskie and the increased pressure up there, they're still there. It just you know the the top percentage of guys will always rise to the top they'll always figure out how to catch the fish they'll always you know they'll innovate they'll they'll figure it out right it's it's everybody else who follows who their bite will dry up and they'll eventually stop coming and and it'll be you know that's the fourth tough year out here now and then you'll see less. Unfortunately we're still on the upswing and it's just as busy as I've ever seen it out there for Muskies.
SPEAKER_06:So you know well I think I think um it's busier yeah well it's like I say every year is busier still um the the yes and you're right the muskies are always there they're just moving because and the th the one nice thing about the muskie side of it and I'll just make a quick point is they're all going back. They're all going back right so they might not be where we caught them but they are somewhere. Exactly and the unfortunate thing too is sometimes on a body of water as big as the one that we're on it's nice when they're at your front door you know what I mean it's nice when they're like right there because I'm not sure everybody understands the actual size of nippissing in the upper French but they could move 40 miles away and I'm not chasing them that far. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:I'll chase them that far. But I know the bigger point is they're not ending up in our shore lunge pan, right? No, that's right.
SPEAKER_06:Or they're they're you know with the bass like I mean they're moving so far away but they're not ending up in the shore lunge pan at all.
SPEAKER_03:And and you know it's an interesting point because I'm fine with if the muskies were and they are all getting stung and they are moving, I get it. But when they're moving on their own accord even if it's due to having been caught that to me that's a lot different than a than all the tournament guys taken in bass and against the fish's will they're not swimming to North Bay they're being transplanted to North Bay. So when they're swimming to North Bay we can still pattern them and if if you if you have this big mass exodus of of muskie for instance because they're all getting stung and they're like I'm out of here we can still stay one step ahead of them and and be anticipating where they are they're at the end of the day they're still a fish they're they're taking on their own behavior that that is very different than a break in pattern. Yes if we were catching them all and moving them over to North Bay that's a very they're not there's no pattern there. That's human inner inner interaction. So anyway I like even when they are getting stung they are still places you just yeah you gotta go I get it you might have to go further or you know whatever. You find them you catch them and and that's that's okay. That's part of the process. I think everywhere that's had good bites across regardless of the species has seen the ebb and flow of fishing success. And that's part of the nature of fishing.
SPEAKER_06:Absolutely that's what sets it up. And speaking of what sets it up um the one thing that I don't know our guests really see is, you know, the invisible work I'll call it all of the stuff that happens behind the scenes when they're not there. And um after being a guide um and a guide at the level that you were what tell us a little bit about all of the stuff that Pat Tryon would be doing outside of the time that you had people in your boat.
SPEAKER_03:And I mean stuff that that you're doing to prepare oh man that's that's uh that's a whole podcast brother uh okay here's what I'll tell you for the 5,000 foot view because I'm telling you we could I could give you an itemized list.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:It all starts like listen for me it starts in the off season right before the season even starts I'm going through I had my my uh two two Lowrance uh machines mounted in my basement attached to a battery that I could power both on and go through and do work with my waypoints um I could be marking out new potential spots that I wanted to go check for the following season and have all of that work done well beforehand. Additionally in the winter I'm going through and I made my own I took a Plano 3730 series which has it's the it's the tall, the deep bodied Plano and it had it had four compartments. Yeah. Yeah the plastic box and I would use my Dremel and I would cut out the top divider and the bottom divider leaving the middle so that instead of a Plano that had four little narrow slots, I had two big wider slots which accommodate plastic a lot better like you know you think big hybrids or or you know yeah any of your plastics that you know you can group together if you're not in a hanging box. It it accommodates them much better than the four individual because you could get three or you could get four pounders in in one of those halves if you layered them just so right down to the organization. And by the way I had all my boxes labeled so they were in the box. Yep I know I know I love seeing those kicking around in the uh at the cottage the big heavies boxes where all of our tools are yeah that at one point that box was filled with Lebowski big heavy spinnerbaits. I had that thing buddy I had like 18 nine in each side in that box and oh my gosh was that a wonderful wonderful bite when oh anyway uh so I had everything labeled for ease of access in the water and I could tell a guest in the compartment right below your feet you will open it up and there will be a box labeled Big Heavies. Could you please hand me that box? And it's right there every time because it was organized. I mean I had the entire boat alphabetized basically and it was just for efficiency on the water right um so all of that happens in the off season but then to get a little bit more in the day like the day to day you know I never the the second the boat got back at the end of a day of guiding after seeing the guests off you know making sure they had all of their stuff and unloading like the shore lunch kit or whatever we had once I've once I've done the basics I refueled the boat right then and there and I prepped my bait for the next day. So if I had used you know four dozen nightcrawlers I'm replacing them in my big box. I'm gonna go get four dozen nightcrawlers right then and there before I put it back in the fridge down at the dockhouse because now the next morning when I walk out the number one thing for me was having that boat ready to go the moment the guest steps their foot on the boat, I need to be ready because I'm on their time. They're not on my time. And everybody I noticed a lot of guides kind of had that mentality of this is my world and I the the second that that I put on the uniform that says Shaudiere Lodge and I wear that emblem, I'm I'm representing the lodge. I'm not representing me. And I want to give that guest the exact experience they've come to expect from that lodge that you work so hard and tirelessly to implement and have all of the other staff guides are no separate. I don't care how great you are at fishing brother you you work for the you your number one the the the ship is the is the lodge because without it you're not there and and it was always making sure that every single thing about that boat was fully prepared. Again we could go into a million details but for for the sake of time the I had to ensure the moment that guest steps on we are ready to go and and off goes the day and the that right there sets up for an a beautiful day.
SPEAKER_06:Everybody's happy like I mean when you can have guests when they step onto your boat and you're ready to go and you're organized and smiling they're happy it makes you very much so much easier.
SPEAKER_03:Brother and in a in an environment where you might have multiple other guides available for guiding that a guest because anytime a guest said I want this guide we gave them that guide if that guide was available. Otherwise the default Billy would get the first one every day. The second one and we'd go right down the tier but if anybody said I want Matt, Matt's getting that guide. Yeah. Full stop. So if you can set yourself apart and by the way on those big groups of people that we'd often have nobody no specific person jumping on when you're ready to go those people are the right onto your boat and off they go and they remember the next day they want you bad.
SPEAKER_06:And now when they come next time on a on a solo trip who do you think they're requesting yeah as soon as they make their booking it's the well or the poor or whoever but whoever's doing the key for me too now if you want to just just um look at that a little bit one of the biggest things that I had when it came to guiding was the actual pairing of the people because I and you were doing this sometimes too at uh you looked after the guides for a few years right but um I would be talking to people and and selling the guides and um I by getting to learn who somebody is best um equips me to pair them with the proper guide right and anybody that wanted to do a muskie guide that I talked to the first person that they went to in line was Pat. And that was back in the days Matt was kind of freelance he wasn't he wasn't there all the time you got muskie that was that was just the way it was because you provide the best muskie experience and then if you were busy then I'm on the phone you know I'm looking for Matt or for um whoever and there were some pretty good muskie guides other than yourself and Matt along the way too but if somebody wanted to fish for walleye Billy got them. If somebody didn't like smoking they didn't go with Billy you know what I mean so a lot of that stuff um behind the scenes started um with with the pairing of guide to guest which which was really important too and you know um as a lodge owner there was so much stuff that went on behind the scenes um never mind like in off season and all of the stuff that went along with the sales and everything else uh I'm gonna more focus just quickly on a few things that helped um while we were we were we were there because um behind the scenes is crazy honestly like while we're there behind the scenes the biggest thing that I had to manage was you see this line here guys and I'm talking to my staff um what happens behind the line is what happens behind the line that's your personal life but as soon as you come anywhere where you can be accessed by our guests um there is nothing but but smiles and respect and you know because listen when you have a fairly large staff living in fairly tight quarters on an island in the middle of the Upper French River and working fairly long hours um there are some situations that arise to say it lightly but you cannot have your personal life come to the forefront and the back of the house was always a place where um everybody that worked there and I and and I would manage that you know what we are totally professional here we're totally professional and um that was a very difficult um um task at some points right because you get temper's flare for whatever reason and it's just a matter of getting in there diffusing situations before staff or before guests uh here because the last thing the absolute last thing you want as a lodge owner is for your guests to wake up and they're walking down to the dining room on a beautiful morning the water is flat as piss on a plate the smell of the pine bush is so intense that you just every breath is something new that you haven't felt you walk through the doors of the main lodge and there's a fire in the fireplace just lightly crackling because it's June and it's just taking the edge of the the the the the the cool edge off the morning you walk into the dining room sit down and hear you the the the um server and the head chef screaming obscenities at each other that wasn't the tone you wanted to set up that's not good no that is not good right and it's it's the the the the to to be able to um teach staff how to avoid those situations and do it effectively um is a difficult task but it's something that i i felt that i felt my way through i and it and it was and it always for everybody and then i think this probably could go back to every business it always come back to the root of why we're here we're here to share a wonderful experience with our guests and do you think the guests feel good in the morning when the first thing they hear through the wall is you know a server yelling at a chef and a chef yelling at a server.
SPEAKER_03:No and people are very reasonable and when explained like that um and and you explain the importance of what we're doing here relative to my life and my family and your life and your family and you get down to that root that's where people can change right so but um anyway well said well said that uh that um yeah so listen just to kind of um uh bring things to a close um what was one of those moments that made all of what we just talked about worth it for Pat try on the guide that's a great question you know I I just I can't help but think that I well one of the reasons I needed to be up there was to meet George Carnut and I mean I I love the man so much when I ordered custom muskie rods I had his name put on it with mine nice it was custom made for George Carnut and Pat right and I tell you the the every year having him back told me I was doing something right I didn't know what I mean we didn't even always catch fish we didn't always catch fish we didn't but you know year after year when you have people like that and it was all of the George's out there it was when you when year after year you're having not just people that are are great to spend a day in the boat with but you know to this day we go visit these are these are the real the friends of my life right and when when those are the type of people that are are coming into your experience you know you know you're doing something right and every day I consider myself lucky that I had that opportunity for for that reason alone.
SPEAKER_06:There were there were so many rewarding experiences Steve but the personal connection with people who are true friends to this day that's that's where it all comes together in a way that's meaningful and impactful because because now it supersedes any one day we had on the water that's that's the day I mean I get it it's a it's it's the day but it's so much more than that and and you you feel that you feel it yeah you just there's some people that you love and you know what um that that was an unbelievable um answer and you know for me there are so many um but I'm gonna I'm gonna um stick with George look at can you see this shirt I sure can this is the George gave me this shirt isn't that wood big what is it big wood lures yep yeah yeah yeah he gave me this shirt but George was an uh was one of those force of nature and I'm throwing Carol in there and um um for me uh George was a long time and Carol were long time guests and um I learned a lot from george george and Carol there were there were probably I'm gonna say three four five there was just a ton of of people that really with love and sometimes tough love would help me and and guide me with their experiences you know george and Carol um Chris and Sue uh the whole Texan group you know with uh with Ty and Sonia and Joe and and uh Fred and Deb Zurich and just there's so many people over that time that really share tough love. And George he's right at the top of that list right at the top he would take we I would never charge him for guiding because I was not a guide but he insisted that we go fishing and insisted that he pay I never took any money but I went out with George once in his one week two week trips or whatever they were and um uh we would just fish in the boat and I don't think we ever caught one I don't think we ever caught a muskie. I hooked up with one once with one once uh but we didn't get it in the boat. But those times with George were some of the best times and um when um when you can touch people like that as a lodge owner and have a number of those and even so many of them that you forget temporarily some of them that's when that that that again was the is what made it worth it for me. So brilliant yes thank you very much Pat again for a wonderful podcast a conversation I'm uh I'm pumped to do it again and um uh thank you for joining us you're welcome and thank you for having me it's always a pleasure man anytime and I just want to thank everybody out there thank all of you guys for listening um I really appreciate you getting to this point and uh like subscribe and you know what if you like this stuff and you think about uh somebody that might like to hear it fire it off to them and share it uh that always helps us keep going here and uh head on over to fishingcanada.com where you can get a bunch of free stuff by uh going in their uh draws as many times as you can and uh also thank you to Lakeside Marine in Red Lake Ontario they are the king at customer service and they've got a great product lineup give them a uh a look when you're in that neighborhood and uh thanks again to all Patrick we'll see you again soon thus brings us to the conclusion of another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner Stories of the North I'm a good old boy never meaning no harm I'll be the only you ever saw I've been reeling in the hog since the day I was born bending my rub stretching my mind some day I might want a lodge and how to be fine I'll be making my way the only way I know how working hard and sharing the north with all of my pals I'm a good old boy I bought a lodge and live my dream and now I'm here talking about how life can be as good as it seems yeah hi everybody I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favorite fishing show but now we're hosting a podcast.
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SPEAKER_08:Hmm now what are we going to talk about for two hours every week well you know there's gonna be a lot of fishing I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them and they were easy to catch.
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SPEAKER_01:I'm Jerry Oulette and I was honored to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However my journey into the woods didn't come from politics rather it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom in 2015 I was introduced to the birch hungry fungus known as chaga a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show's about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts