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Diaries of a Lodge Owner
In 2009, sheet metal mechanic, Steve Niedzwiecki, turned his passions into reality using steadfast belief in himself and his vision by investing everything in a once-obscure run-down Canadian fishing lodge.
After ten years, the now-former lodge owner and co-host of The Fish'n Canada Show is here to share stories of inspiration, relationships and the many struggles that turned his monumental gamble into one of the most legendary lodges in the country.
From anglers to entrepreneurs, athletes to conservationists; you never know who is going to stop by the lodge.
Diaries of a Lodge Owner
Episode 121: Science, Myths, And The Hunt For Muskies
The fish of 10,000 casts can feel like a slot machine with a mind of its own—and that’s exactly why we can’t stop chasing it. We dig into why muskie obsession grips so hard, how one strike wipes out weeks of slow days, and why the best stories aren’t always the biggest fish. Pat Tryon joins us to separate myth from data, sharing two decades of logs that show how lunar majors and minors consistently open bite windows—and how local weather still calls the shots.
We get tactical without getting gear drunk. Pat breaks down a minimalist setup that covers almost everything: a nine-foot-six extra-heavy casting rod, a 400-size reel, 100-pound braid, and a simple leader strategy. From there, we go deep on tuning. Learn how tiny adjustments to crankbait line ties unlock depth and stability on the troll, and how bending a Suick’s tail turns a weed-choked flat into a surgical strike zone. This is the difference between passing through fish and provoking them.
Electronics become tools, not crutches. We explain why mapping is the foundation for boat control and casting angles, how side imaging finds trees, spines, and edges in minutes, and where forward-facing sonar accelerates learning responsibly. Use live sonar to confirm bait and presence, build smarter waypoints, and return with confidence rather than guesswork. Along the way, we wrestle with the ethics of “pummeling” marked fish and land on a practical balance: discover fast, fish with intent, and keep the hunt alive.
It all comes back to persistence. You’ll hear a gutting net mishap with a heavy October fish and a soaring high as a seventy-something guest lands her first 50 at the lodge—two moments that define why we keep going. Ready to time your next window, tune your spread, and make better passes? Follow the show, share this with a muskie-crazed friend, and leave a review telling us your best heartbreak or hard-won high.
When I look at the picture of a fish, I say, yeah, man, that's a real nice one. Like, I don't care if that fish is 51 and a quarter or 54 and a half, or I don't get, I don't care at all, dude. What I what I care is I look at it and I'm like, wow, that's a nice fish. And then I'm more curious about what are the circumstances around it? Like, you know, like a cool fishing story, it can, you know, is is more valuable on a smaller fish than like a really run-of-the-mill big one that you caught. Like, I think it's more impressive overcoming adversity and trying to figure out, like, dude, we blew a motor, and then like we we could only use our kicker to get out to a couple spots, and then we're casting, and but we got a 46 and salvaged the trip.
SPEAKER_03:This week on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Networks, Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North. We're chasing the legend that defines the north, the Muskie. It's the fish of 10,000 casts, the ghost that keeps us up at night and drags us out of bed before sunrise. It's power, mystery, and obsession all rolled up into one long follow behind the boat. And here to unravel it all, a man who's dedicated his life to understanding this freshwater marvel. Patriot. On this show, we'll dive into the patterns, the myths, and heartbreaks that come with hunting giants, and why that one explosive strike can erase a hundred slow days. So spool up, fire the motor, and come with us to Muskie Country, where science meets superstition, and obsession turns into art. This is Chasing Giants. The obsession, the myths, and the science of Muskies. Here's my conversation with Pat Tryon. Welcome, folks, to another episode of Diaries of the Lodge Owner Stories of the North. And Patrick Tryon is in the house, and we are going to be talking about chasing giants, the obsession, the myths, and the science, and a whole whack of other things. Patrick, welcome to the show, brother. Thank you, Steve.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate you having me here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's my pleasure. And um, this was this is a topic that um that we are very good at talking about because we uh we spend a lot of time, actually not enough time. We uh we get to be on the water um uh a few days a year. Well, may like I mean a little bit. And most of our time is taught uh that we we have out there is spent talking about uh this topic, um, amongst others. And I'm sure there'll be tangents, but why don't we start talking about um number one the addiction of muskie fishing or angling uh in general? Like what makes um anglers so obsessed? Um do you have any thoughts on the the psychology of of this whole deal?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, buddy, I got lots of thoughts about everything, my friend. Listen, thought, yeah. Uh wow. So here's here's the thing. We're, I think as a species, we're hardwired to desire to go fishing. I think for a lot of our life, we relied on hunter-gatherer society, right? And part of that was with fishing. Um, we know, I mean, even my boy in school, uh, he's in grade three, and he's doing he's doing reports on how the salmon were so important to indigenous uh survival and and and and culture and society, right? So listen, it's very clear that we have a draw to go fishing. And it's one of those things you, you know, imagine four-year-old Pat, and there's lots of those out there, the the magic of holding on to a bluegill pulling on the rod. There, there's just there's something about it that's so deeply ingrained and instinctual in humans that I think for a lot of people, fishing as a whole is going to create an addictive tendency, period. Because you that moment of pulling on the fish in between what could be hours or days of nothing. That's the exact same as a slot machine in the casino. It's a lot of nothing with one big moment of, oh my God, I won. And and and now let's make that parallel the biggest fish of any species. That's now that progressive jackpot. You haven't just made, you know, every time you pull it, it's 50 cents down the drain, and sometimes you win a couple bucks back. That's cool. But when you win$50,000, I've never done it, but I gotta believe it's pretty dang cool. So fishing is the same way. You you catch a lot of small ones, there's enjoyment, there's there's excitement, but boy, one big fish changes the entire scope of a season or a lifetime. I mean, one fish makes all of the pain and and blood, sweat, tears, time, relationships, money all worth it. One fish, and you only and it could happen anytime. Tell me that's not addictive. I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, I know. That is fantastic. That and what a great answer. What a what a great answer for that. Um, now, you know, a little bit like uh when I first started, let's let's kind of more focus on muskies for this um for this question or this thought. Um but let's not just be musky um uh uh only. Um pattern recognition. So when you're reading a river, when you're reading weather, moon phases, lures, colors, um uh all of these majors, minors, um some of it a lot of people feel is more is is like myth. Really? Like I'm like uh like you when when I first heard a hardcore muskie angler talking about things, some which I understood, some which I didn't have any clue what they were talking about, it'll it sounded like witchcraft, right? Like uh, you know, moon rising and sun setting and majors with this under your foot and over your head. And let's talk a little bit about um what is important to you as an angler and what works and what doesn't.
SPEAKER_02:Great, yeah. And you know, it's funny because the all of that lunar talk, one of my favorite, just a short sidebar, Cole at the lodge at Chaudiere, would when he would hear me talking about this with guests, he would, without skipping a beat, without with a completely straight face, he would start saying the lyrics to the song Age of Aquarius, where where you know it it's it's talking about the plants, but like without skipping a beat every time, it always made me laugh. Because, you know, from the outside, and and Cole has a a huge amount of life experience with sailing, with businesses, with oh my gosh. So to me, hearing somebody, and I'm not gonna say he didn't believe it or not, but he was always he always made a bit of fun with it, right? Because it does sound like darn near witchcraft, right? But then you break apart the numbers, man. And and there was a point in my life where I had, you know, because I journaled every single fish I'd ever caught. And if I went back and looked at the majors and minors for those fish, it was 80% of the muskies I was catching were within a major or a minor.
SPEAKER_03:I mean And what is a major or a minor?
SPEAKER_02:So those are the daily lunar phase, the daily lunar patterns. So majors are when the moon is directly overhead and directly underfoot from where your latitude and longitude is, because it's the majors and minors are different times at different locations in North America or the Earth because of where the moon is in relation to where you are. And then the minors are the moon set and the moon rise, where it's right at the horizons. And the theory, I mean, listen, we don't know why they eat more, but the theory is.
SPEAKER_03:But you believe they do.
SPEAKER_02:I don't need to believe. The data says it. I mean, I do believe that, but I don't even know what it is. What what does it matter what I believe? Show me the data. And brother, the the at least in my experience, it's like 80%, man, 80% of the fish that I'm catching are within a major or a minor. Now you're seeing them. There's a lot of work happening in between majors and minors. But you know, you go and you you spend a whole day fishing. If you raise five fish.
SPEAKER_03:So you when you say within a major, what exactly do you mean?
SPEAKER_02:I give it about an hour window on each. So say the major peaks. So, like the peak of the major is when it's either directly overhead, which are my favorite majors. Your moon, yeah. Or yeah, the moon is directly overhead or directly underfoot. It's that the peak is the very moon.
SPEAKER_03:And you're measuring this in time. Yes. Like at at noon, at high noon. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:At 12 p.m., the moon is directly overhead. But the effects of that major start.
SPEAKER_03:Now within that.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. An hour before, yep. An hour before to the peak, and then to about an hour after. That's when the moon is in that bit of a sliver, roughly directly overhead. There's always an exact moment that it's directly overhead or underfoot or to each horizon. But it's within the window, right? And traditionally, like it depends, there's a lot of apps you can use, and they're basically just arbitrary um periods of time. But for my own purposes, when I was doing this little mini study into my my fish times, I was giving it with a two-hour window on one hour on either side, basically. And within those two hours, where the middle of the two hours is the exact moment of the major or minor, again, about 80% of the fish I ever caught or put in the boat, not me, but just put in, were within that. How can you say it doesn't matter? Yeah. It very clearly does. And I'm not saying it's the most important piece. The local weather is always more indicative of a fish biting or not. You can't like the the best, like a perigee day, which is where the moon is the actual closest at the exact moment during, you know, an atrocious northeast wind, you're probably, you know, you're maybe you mean that's when it'll be most likely to bite, but that that major effect is a lot less influential than say that exact same major on the perigee day on a week of solid, stable summer weather. Right. And and that exact peak obviously is gonna have that'll be like a big influence. So, yes, you can plan your your trips around full moons or new moons or specific whatever specific moon phase you're after. And you can even make a list ahead of time of, and I I've done this in the past. I write down all the majors and minors for that five days that you're up or whatever. It's not gonna, that's only the icing on the cake. The local weather is still way more indicative of what the fish are doing. But even on the tough days, the even more so on the tough days, those bite windows seem to always take place between majors and minors. So I don't know what it is, man. I it's gotta be gravity. They gotta feel it. It's gotta be something they feel.
SPEAKER_03:So only express- Oh wow, that's what it's gotta be something to do with gravity for sure. Um, so while we're while we're uh talking about the lunar things, explain to me the difference, in your opinion, between full moon, new moon, or anywhere in between.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, it's obviously different based on the season, right? So if we're looking, say, at musky, for example, uh, it stands to reason that a muskie who has really good eyesight compared to like a northern pike, for instance, is going on when there's full moons, it stands to reason they would feed more during the night and thus not be eating as often in the day. And in general, although it's not an ultra, I should get these numbers out, but it's not a it's not a really high correlation, but there is definitely a correlation between muskies biting less during the day in the periods around the full moon. And the best I can assume is that it's because they're they're simply feeding more at night because they've got this big bright moon. You know, I mean, listen, when we as anglers can look across the river and see the other shoreline, a muskie in the water is definitely able to see a bait fish up in water better at night with the moon like that than in a new moon.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So when I So what that information would tell you is pay, it's better to f it your your chances of catching a muskie at night are better on full moons than new moons. But if you want to catch muskies during the day, chances are the new moon period is a better period of time to do that because the muskies aren't eating as much at night, which would therefore mean that more muskies are hungrier than not.
SPEAKER_02:That's how I've always interpreted, and that's what the numbers suggest. Again, it's not a, it wasn't as much as the majors and minors with around 80%, but it was a high enough percentage that I know. However, one caveat to that is that I also notice that on the full moon periods, the last light if of the evening and the front light of the morning are also much better than than during new moons. And the best I can come up with is that because they're eating at night, they're just more susceptible to feeding in those periods. And again, you know, I mean, I'm I'm there's like 20 years of data, right? So I mean, it's not like this is gonna be some hard elastic relationship or I guess inelastic relationship that you you've gotta fish the mornings on the full moons. But in general, I notice that the the fishing tends to be better. Like my first 50 inch was caught at 640 in the morning on the day of the full moon. And it was the the sun is just coming up, right? It's not it's not bright high noon. Yeah. But that perhaps that fish is is up in there eating already earlier in the night, and I happen to be right place, right time, and boom, I and I and I get a good one. Um, but that was a full moon fish. That was a full moon early, early morning fish, right? So, so there's yeah, basically you want to fish anytime you have a chance, but 100%. If you're an angler who likes night fishing, of course you're gonna time your trips for the full moon for a multitude of reasons.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yeah, 100%. So now the one other thing, the one thing that you said trumps everything is your local weather. Um, can you talk a little bit about um, you know, pressure drops, rises, you know what how do you manage that that local weather when it isn't perfect?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we had it, we had it good on on the upper fringe because the weather was so consistent all summer long with wind out of the southwest. And I'm sure it's like this in a lot of places, but yeah um, because of the fact that it's a river where you have current, you've there there's the lower current, the actual river, which is very deep, it doesn't come nearly as much into play.
SPEAKER_03:Well, maybe, maybe let me rephrase this question or re-re um did you find any cool productive patterns around certain weather events?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but uh, but I mean, even the pattern of the consistent weather event was there.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, that's a great weather event that's really awesome because the more consistent and long stretches of consistent weather, the better the fishing got in all respects.
SPEAKER_02:So let me answer, I'll answer it this way, because I kind of know what you're asking here. So let me just so let's say we have a long period of time, days or a week or whatever, where you've got that consistent southwest wind that has the fish set up in fairly predictable locations because that's kind of the status quo.
SPEAKER_03:Now that status quo, is that can you draw a parallel between lakes, or is that just kind of a status quo that you learned on the upper French River when the southwest wind comes there on east shores or whatever?
SPEAKER_02:Both, yeah. I mean, listen, I'm sure that that consistency of weather is it's wherever your lake or body of water is, that's the sort of typical summer peak, summer location that you come to expect the fish to be, and that's where they are. Where specifically they are on it is gonna vary based on the day. But like the the reefs that are out in the main river channel are much more likely to hold fish in the middle of summer than in early on opener when they're transitioning out of spawning base, for instance. So on the traditional summer peak, this is the the the you know tried and true summer pattern. You you have the consistent weather, and then you have to your you had you had said, so now you have a pressure change. So what this signifies is maybe we have a thunderstorm starting to move in and that pressure starts dropping, right? We have the barometric pressure gauge on the boat. Yeah. And we can watch it in real time. We can watch that pressure starting to go. The second that I'm seeing, and you know that's you're checking the weather, so you know later in the day there's one coming in, but the second they start going, that the pressure starts going down, to me that signals an increased feeding window. So it's less about the fish are gonna suddenly move somewhere because they actually don't move until after the tumultuous weather comes in. I think they'll move off the spots once that nasty weather, especially when it comes the next morning after a a night of you know big thunderstorms, you get that north wind, bluebird sky day. Now the muskies just aren't even where they were yesterday. But when they're still in that spot that you've come to expect them to be, and you tack on lowering, you know, barometric pressure, especially after several days of stability, those fish are no longer fish that are that you know where they are, they're now biters. So now the the interesting part becomes where is the biggest fish? I don't even care. Like that's the time where I'm like, we're going to where there's a good fish, because that's when that fish is statistically most likely to bite. And if if everything aligns and you get, you know, a the day of a full or new moon where you've got the moon closest to you, or you have even just a window, a major or a minor, that's coinciding with that. And and I can take it one step further when you get one of those, the late afternoon, sometimes we get those night storms that come in. And right at like eight o'clock, you've got the sun going down, you've got the moon coming up, and on some days in August, because I always planned my trips, my annual trips with my mom. I had always picked based on that August moon, there's always a day where the moon rise, the moon rise and the sunset line up almost perfectly, and you've got both right there. There's there's now there's going to be a um increased window from a magnetism perspective or or gravitational, whatever it is. If you get lucky and now you have a lowering barometric pressure, lining up with all those, dude. Just again, a muskie who's ready to eat is gonna eat a shoe. So now you go back and find the biggest fish that you could find. And we always tried to make that day late enough in the trip. And we were working on Saturday to Saturday schedules, my mom and I, so it wasn't always perfect. But the later in the trip, the better, because it gave me the whole first 13 days to go look for fish. And I know there's a 52-incher sitting on that rock, and the second all of those elements combine, boom, that's where I need to be. Because that's the most likely time it's gonna bite. I'm just trying to put the stats in my favor. It's not like, you know, if you want to call that witchcraft, it is, I guess. But all I'm doing is like looking at the data and saying, wow, we should probably put our bait where we saw that giant fish. But none of that data, the magnetism, none of that matters if you don't know she's there. So you still got to go put in all the hours to find these fish, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Unless you get lucky, which you can, you can you can just make the right cast at the right time, having no knowledge of fishes there. But especially as a guide, man, when I've got, I'm on the water every single day, I've got a rollodex of where the fish are hanging out. Yeah. So, so now it just becomes about what do I need to catch here? Do I is this a time that it's appropriate to go, you know, cast on a whale, or do you need to maybe not go cast on it even though you know it's there? Because if you pummel it too much and you you you get them too conditioned to you, then when all of the elements do line up, sometimes they don't want to bite. But if you've left it alone, if it's if it's chilling and now you get that lowering barometric pressure coinciding with any kind of a lunar or solar event, forget it. Like that's like 90% of the big ones, is how I get them.
SPEAKER_03:Nice. So now that um we have a fairly good um feel for how you kind of spend your time on the water to locate them, and we've talked about all of the uh the uh the moon phases and and how actually important and how much I believe that they work. I'm not even sure. Uh you know, I mentioned myths. Um, and I did that because um there are a lot of people that feel it's myth, but I can't think of one myth that um that um I don't believe. Um I'm not saying there aren't any out there when it comes to muskie. Can you think of of of a myth that is truly poppycock?
SPEAKER_02:I I can't, man. I mean I know the myths, in my opinion, are more around the stories of how fish were caught or certainly sites. Yeah, I mean, yeah, size though, you know what? I'm so I'm so I know I don't care at all. You know what does matter? It matters how much a fish weighs, because that's what the IGFA says that's the gold standard. I know that there's live release world records, which is great because we shouldn't be keeping these fish that we think are records because none of them are, and then we'd kill, you know, we'd be killing all these fish for no reason. Yeah. I just don't care. When I look at the picture of a fish, I say, yeah, man, that's a real nice one. Like, I don't care if that fish is 51 and a quarter or 54 and a half, or I don't get, I don't care at all, dude. What I what I care is I look at it and I'm like, wow, that's a nice fish. And then I'm more curious about what are the circumstances around it? Like, you know, like a cool fishing story, it can, you know, is is more valuable on a smaller fish than like a really run-of-the-mill big one that you caught. Like, I think it's more impressive overcoming adversity and trying to figure out like, dude, we blew a motor and then like we we could only use our our kicker to get out to a couple spots and then we're casting and we we but we got a 46 and salvaged the trip.
SPEAKER_03:Like to me, that's a way cooler story about other than the fact that you gotta pay thousands of dollars for your book.
SPEAKER_02:I get it, but listen that's what fishing is that's fishing and boating, brother. You're and and talk about lodge ownership. How many, how many fluke expenditures did you have to incur? It's brother, that's just part of the journey, right? Yeah, but it's it's in the story. It's how did you how did you grow from this? How did you have to make everything so like philosophical here? I know I do, but truly at this point, like I my friends are like the best muskie fisherman in North America, right? Like I'm lucky because my buddies, uh I'm seeing enough big fish from then, from those guys, that other fish just don't excite me. You know, like I'm way more interested in the storyline of what what happened, how did how did this come to be, or what what was going on? If it's just like, yeah, you know, we yeah, we we we we saw it on the scope and we cast it and a bit and we caught it, boom, giant. Listen, cool. I mean, you you got a big fish. Just for me personally, that's not exciting at all.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's not so so now that we've talked a little bit about that um the whole situation as far as pattern recognition and everything else. Um what kind of tools are are is Patrion using to target these beasts? You know, why don't we get into the the tools of the trade? The um a little bit of uh gear breakdown um and and talk about uh and talk about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, with gear, it's pretty easy. I'm I'm uh I'm a simple guy when it comes to gear. If I'm casting, there's no better rod on the planet than what Thornbros is making right now. It's been talked about a million times all over. If you're even remotely into muskie fishing, you already know the name. The Thornbros stealth line or the predator series blanks built to whatever specs you want with, you know, your application and intended purpose. You can pretty much build any casting rod on the planet for muskie that's going to be perfectly suited for the exact bait or bait style you want to throw. So one of those, um, or if you're trolling, they make same. I I get mine from Thornbros. They do it on a rain shadow blank. It's a glass blank, and it is by far and away the very best trolling rod for a multitude of reasons that I've ever used. And real is really just pick your choice. Shimano, Dioa. There's a couple other lines. Those are the only two that I use when it comes. Well, it's again, it depends on the it depends on the application. I know a lot of guys that want the 500 tranks for throwing big bucktails or big plastics. I'm right now using the Lexa 400s and I'm having no issues at all, regardless of the size of bait. And I'm also using the 7-1-to-1 T-wing for every single lure except for jerk baits, which I use a slightly smaller size, like a uh Tranx 400 is a touch smaller, and that's a little better, I think, for jerk baits. But with the with the Dio Alexa 7, one to one, man, I can throw plastics, I can throw big bucktails, I can throw all the pretty much everything on one reel. Where if you go up to that tranx line in the 500, the spools are so big that the high gear ratio, which is only 6'2, but because it's 40 inches per turn, cranking like a twin 13, it's exhausting. But dropping to the 4'6 to one, which allows you much easier access to that high torque applications like big bucktails, really put you at a disadvantage if you need to pick up slack line quick, um, like you would with um fishing plastics, like, you know, especially like hybrids, which like are they on fire right now because of because of the way that you can fish them and they have such a sharp nose down. If you can't pick the lineup quick, you get at a disadvantage fast. Well, I just, I'm a simple guy, man. I want one reel that does it all, and I've used all of them. I find the Dio A 400s, they just work for everything, bro. Like I say, the only exception is my jerk baits, but every other lure I use for Muskie, right now I'm throwing on a on a Dio Alexa 400 T-wing.
SPEAKER_03:Nice.
SPEAKER_02:You can't go wrong with any of them, bro. They're all phenomenal.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh, you know, that's but it's those little details that separate the great anglers from the the the good anglers, right? It's and not only that, that's that's a great point for people that don't have enough money to go out and fill a golf bag full of muskie rods, right? Because you've you easily can, and there's a different rod for a different different application that's tuned and set perfectly, no doubt. But if you can get 90% of that and and trim down your rod selection to, you know, um while you've yeah, you you need to you need a trolling rod, but and then you can have two casting rods that basically cover or casting setups that basically cover everything. Yeah, like I mean that especially. You could do it with one too. You could you could run. Let's set this up. Let's let's let's let's set this up. Let's let's do it with. One.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's easy. It's it's a nine foot six. I like the predator line. The the stealth line is also good. And that's that's personal preference. I just prefer the predator blanks. Um, but a nine foot six extra heavy will do every there's nothing you can't put a bait in my hand that I can't effectively work with that rod. Could I work a jerk bait a little easier if I drop down to like my eight four? Of course I can do it a little easier, but I can still work a suic. I can work a Wickwins Cuddy, I can work anything on a nine foot six. Is the 10 foot a little bit better for bigger plastics? Of course it's a little better, but it ain't so much better that you have to have two. If for for the for three years, man, I only took one rod with me wherever I was fishing. And it was a nine foot six extra heavy predator with a dial of 400 lakhs on it, 100-pound braid. There's nothing you can't, other than I'm not including trolling, just casting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:There is nothing and no bait that is within reason that I want to fish anyway. Look, I'm not casting two pounders with it, but I am casting pounders. No issues whatsoever on a pounder. None. So yeah, can you do it a little bit better? Yeah, marginally, you can you can definitely improve it, but do you need it? Absolutely not. One rod, bro, nine foot six extra heavy. It's all you need.
SPEAKER_03:That is and and take that one to the bank, folks. That you know what? There's I've I've listened to so many different podcasts and and talked to a lot of different people. And um, for somebody uh who's as knowledgeable as you to be able to nail the equipment down to that, thanks, brother. Um appreciate that because um um for people to enjoy the sport, it can get really expensive really quickly. And um uh there you have it. Take that one. To the bank. When you're in the wilds of northwestern Ontario, you need gear you can trust and a team that's got your back. That's Lakeside Marine in Red Lake, Ontario, family-owned since 1988. They're your go-to pro camp dealer, built for the North. From Yamaha boats and motors to everything in between. We don't just tell you gear, we stand behind it. Lakeside Marine. Rugged, reliable, ready.
SPEAKER_06:Back in 2016, Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of musky angling education material anywhere in the world.
SPEAKER_05:Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you.
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SPEAKER_03:Now, um, let's talk a little bit about um line and lures. Because in in in this um um I'll call it game, sport, obsession, um line and lures are um are are two very important things. Um so why don't we start with casting um and we'll touch on that briefly, but there's a lot more that we can uh dive into as far as trolling goes in that. So let's what what type of line lure uh uh combination are you using? So on that individual rod, what line you're putting 100 pound uh braid on it, I heard. Yep. Um and then if you're gonna be casting, you're gonna put a casting leader on, which is 150 floral.
SPEAKER_02:I use 180, 16 inches at 180 is my overall, like all around fluoro. Yeah. Or all around type of leader. I do use a different leader for jerk baits, but in the event that you have one rod and reel, I would use that fluoro all day long. I've I've done it and caught them on suic on fluoro. There's no issue. I know solid wire is historically what one would use on jerk baits. There are a few distinct advantages, but again, if you are what are they? Well, because it doesn't coil back, it can, it, it lets it let the lure move a little bit more freely on a bait that glides for sure. Um, it sort of acts as a fulcrum point as opposed to the heaviness of the floral, which is quite a bit heavier and thicker diameter than a single strand of wire. Even like the 318-pound American fishing wire, solid steel or solid uh bronze wire, even even that 318-pound is still a much lighter lead in physical weight compared to the 180-pound fluorocarbon because you're also not usually throwing a swivel on with the lead with the jerkbait. And that swivels, those, those are heavy, right? Um, so there are definite advantages to using it. But again, a skillful angler is can overcome any of these with technique, any of the issues. I get it, it's not as refined or as perfect, but again, a skillful angler can do it, can can handle any application with with a floral leader. So um, and if you were ever in doubt, you could just run the solid wire leader and then you have a swivel that goes onto your onto your um your clip, right? So you basically add the swivel on for instances that need a swivel and you pop it off if you don't want the extra weight. Again, it that's more on the skill of the angler than the actual equipment. The equipment is just how we become perfectionists.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, gotcha. And then um let's dive into the uh that question with baits and um and lines uh when it comes to trolling. That's something that I'm much more familiar with, but I think there's a lot more to unpack there when you start talking about uh custom baits and and just having to tune well, not even just custom baits, tuning your bait. And I never uh until um uh fishing with you, um, I never tuned baits. Like, I mean, when we were fishing for Northerns or Walleye or Muskie or didn't matter, um, I never even heard of tuning a bait. So why don't we talk about um uh trolling, the line, uh different types of line and uh and baits.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. I mean, trolling again. I use I use a hundred-pound braid for darn near everything. I do have wire rods for a little bit of extra depth, um, but those come a lot more into play when you're moving slower in fall and when you're running multiple rods, because I want I want the rod that's getting the deepest to get down fast so that I can run another rod over the top of it and have that line. I don't want it getting down quite as quickly because I need those lines to cross each other when the boat is turning aggressively. I need those lines to cross, otherwise, you end up with tangles, which we've seen our fair share of together. Yeah, we're good at getting them out. Listen, you can't be perfect all the time, brother. Sometimes it's gonna happen. So, yeah, I mean, the line again, I I you can't go wrong with 100 pound braid, man. It just your choice of braid, 100 pound, and it's hard to break. It's hard, it's got it has pretty good shock resistance, it has no stretch, so you get great hook sets. Um, it's durable, it's it's just an all-around amazing line. Um, but the bait tuning is really important and it's absolutely incredible.
SPEAKER_03:Especially when you're trolling.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh. And you know what?
SPEAKER_03:I think that's where we run into most of our problems, or at least I run into my problems.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, in casting, you know, getting a suic perfect, that's hard. Not a lot of people, there's a lot that go into tuning a sewic.
SPEAKER_03:Well, let's talk about a suic. Let's talk about what um for people that don't know what getting it right looks like. What does a perfectly tuned suic look like?
SPEAKER_02:Well, see, even in that, now is it a weighted suic? Is it uh is it a is it a shallow suic? Is it a nine inch? Is it a four?
SPEAKER_03:Well, when you're tuning a suic, so I'm gonna give you, and folks, what this is, is it is a um a piece of of solid board uh out of uh probably, I'm not even sure what they make them out of, but it's solid wood. It is uh about an inch wide, um, three-quarters of an inch deep, and they come in lengths from from uh probably four to twelve inches long. They've got a piece of metal um uh sticking out the back that looks like a tail that you can move up and down and an eye on the on the front of this thing. And um uh it's called a suick, and it is a very, it was one of actually the first baits that I used for um for northerns in in Willow Creek uh out by mom and dad's place. I made one because I saw it on a fishing show. Um, but um, and uh so let's talk about tuning that sewick, and I know what you're saying. There's different looks for it, and the point is you want to try and get it tuned so it goes in uh uh you can use it properly and it looks how you want it to look. So I'm gonna let you take it from there.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. And again, I I hate to be Mr. Follow-up question, but how you want it to look is gonna vary based on the circumstance because to make it to make it very simple, that metal tail on the back that you were describing, if you tune, if you push it down more, it creates more water resistance and it causes the nose to dive deeper. But that's not going to be nearly as appropriate as when you are in a thicker weed bed and you're trying to work through the tips of the weeds and you want it just under the surface. You don't want it going down deep. But if you're fishing, uh, for instance, when we were up there and we were using the Garmin to look up and we could see there were three feet of water. There was three feet of water above the tops of the weeds in a spot which in summer has weeds right to the surface, right? I might go in there and be throwing my shallow running sewic and working it through the tops like I do in July, because unless I physically go in to see where the where the weeds are, or if you're lucky enough that you can you can shine the beam right up there and see the water column, now that indicates, okay, now I want to bend that that tail down and and have it dive down a little deeper so that I'm tickling the top of those weed tips, right? I'm I'm I'm like I'm allowing it to probe down into the holes. And the cool thing about at least the non-weighted suic is if you if you if you bend the tail down, and again, this is a personal preference of a style I fish. There's a million ways to fish it. But if you're in thicker weeds and you've got holes in the weeds where there's empty spaces, if you get the bait going, and when I say get it going, reel down so there's tension and let the nose start dipping down in the water, as soon as the nose starts dipping down, you give her a quick snap, the nose fires, it almost goes vertical straight down into the weeds, and then it backs itself out on the same trajectory it went in, and it doesn't get snagged in the weeds. But you again, this is a skill of the angler. If you just throw a suic out there and start ripping it around, you're probably grabbing those weeds. But if you, if if you're cognizant of how they set up, you're aware of how they set up, which again, that's just time on the water, you can get a non-weighted sewic to snap right down uh two feet into the water, back itself right out, and then you reel it nice and slow and go into the next opening. So you can bring it right through the weeds, okay? Now you're in an opening, you get the nose going and you snap it down and it it probes down and pops back up. But if you give it a wee bit of line when it pops back up, she'll back right past where it even started from. And you can sit there, buddy, for like 10 minutes probing a sewic, jackhammering into one of these holes. As long as you let it go back out of the weeds, you can just keep, you can just pound them.
SPEAKER_03:And I've had almost on the same spot.
SPEAKER_02:The exact brother, it's the exact spot. I mean, I'm that bait has not left like a two-foot radius, and you're just you're just nose hammering down and it drives them, it drives them crazy on cold fronts, man. When when when you know they're in the weeds, say you've been catching them in the weeds and you get that nasty northwind day or the east wind, or just generally you feel that the fish they stop following. Let's put it more simply. You're getting them to follow in weeds, and now they've stopped following. Doesn't matter what's going on, right? Yeah, but you know they're in the weeds. So if you throw something that sinks, you're constantly gonna be dealing with grabbing the weeds in like a shallow pounder is what I always used to use, or or a or a really the lightest-weighted red October tube. But it's even those, they slowly sink down. And eventually you're gonna grab the weeds and you're gonna you're gonna have to reel it in and you've got you've alerted the fish to your presence.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. Buddy assumed more than anything, that's what happened. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. So that suic now allows you to constantly jackhammer one spot. And I mean, I don't know, I'd sit there for two or three minutes anyway, maybe, maybe not even, maybe a minute, but still quite a long time. And if the fish isn't gonna bite at that point, then I'd move in and I'd go. And you know what's crazy? A lot of times when you're doing that, you you it's far enough away that you don't, when the fish starts getting active, I guess if, okay, if we were watching this on on the live imaging, we'd see it happening. But what I was looking for when I was when I was piercing those those holes, you'd actually the fish would go and then pull back. But when they kicked back, you'd get little little swirls on the surface. And then you knew now, now she's showed herself, and and I would I'd sit there like a like a frickin' miner digging for gold, baby. I'm just I'm just pounding that sewic down in that hole over and over and over and over and over, and then they'd bite. Because now I know they're there, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I get it. There are some technologies now that you know definitively they're there, but I tell you, there's nothing like the adrenaline rush. When you get that first swirl and you know there's one sitting in that pocket now, now it's just a matter of time, right? And now you now you're gonna go, but it look, it must look ridiculous.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, and and and it boils down to tuning. You you you and that's a bait in particular, and there's not a whole lot of baits out there like that. And we're too we're talking about this bait and tuning the bait itself, and it gives you a tool to do that, which is that little steel fin at the back. Yeah. Um and and you what you're doing is you're taking your situation and you're by knowing what the the how you can tune it, you're tuning it situationally.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:There's another way of tuning these baits, and and um actually uh our good buddy Paul Fisterio said it. He said every bait should be tuned out of the box. Like you're rarely do you get a perfectly tuned bait. Talk a little bit about that type of tuning.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. And I mean, when we were doing that, we were talking about trolling baits specifically because you're you're letting these baits back, you're you're putting them in a rod holder, and they're under a consistent level of water pressure. So if that eye is off left or right, even microscopically almost, that bait is running a little bit further left or a little bit further right, or all the way to being it just spirals right up and out of the water if it's totally out of tune, right? So, so you've really gotta, and by the way, it's so one of the things, and and Paul and I have spent a great deal of time talking about this, you lose your maximum depth depth potential when they're not tuned right. In other words, they might stay down and they might even look okay. But if they're swinging out to the left or swinging out to the right, they're they're higher in the water column than if they're tuned perfectly, digging straight down. You're getting better depth by having them tuned perfectly. So not only is it important to keep your lines from colliding with each other, but you need that to get the maximum depth potential to do a proper line spread. And I'm not saying that it's about getting it super deep fast. It might not be. It might actually be about it being able to be long lined, but if it's not in tuned and it's walking across each other, it's a it's a recipe for disaster. So when you put a bait in and you let it straight back behind the boat four or five feet, and you and you click your real clothes and that bait dives down. And as you're looking out the back of the boat, that bait is swinging to your left, right? You need to grab that hook eye. And as you're looking head on, just like it was coming through the water, you grab the eye and you bend it ever slightly to the right, and it offsets whatever's going on, whether it's the bait symmetry, whether it was the eye to begin with, who knows? But you offset it to get it to run more centerline. And it becomes, it's a very intuitive process because if you overbend it, it then goes the other way. And now you've got to find that sort of middle ground. Um, but Paul is absolutely right. Every single bait, even an especially production baits, injected baits. I mean, yeah, you every single bait needs to be verified that it's two, just like you would check every single hook point to make sure it's sharp.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:You know, you never do you don't just grab a bait and throw it back there and start fishing it. You you gotta make sure it's ready to go.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. And that tuning is uh some baits are easier to tune than others. And it's and it uh it all boils down to balance and maybe not even so much center line of the bait and that eye because you don't know how that that mold uh the injection molder blew the plastic in. Maybe it's a little heavier on one side, the other side, who knows internally. But you need to put it in the water and it's pretty and and you can't just look at a bait and grab the the hook eye and bend it by eye to make it in tune. You have to have it in the water.
SPEAKER_02:It has to run, yeah. You can't tell it could look perfectly in line and be way out of tune. You it has to be in the water.
SPEAKER_03:Don't even have to run at the speed you want to run it, yes, and that's the other thing, too.
SPEAKER_02:You're right, because it's easier to have a bait tuned at slower speeds, it's much harder to hold its tune at high speeds, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right? Yeah, for sure. No, that um that's key. Um, so now we're talking about the tools of the trade. Um where does um um electronics fall in in that uh in your in your your tool box per se?
SPEAKER_02:All right, if I were gonna all the electronics are important, we know that. If I were if if I could pick one piece of electronics, it would be my mapping above above everything else.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I need to see exactly how the spot sets up in relation to where I am. I you know I use range rings to you can have perfect boat positioning where you're you're you know a certain distance away from the piece of structure that you're trying to target by using range rings. Um, but it's knowing I it's much more important to me to see how a spot sets up and have the boat positioned perfectly than any other piece of electronics. Of course, adding each layer of electronics increases your odds dramatically in some cases, but I will argue maybe, maybe not after this last trip we had where we were really experimenting and and tooling around with. Well, you have a great deal of experience with the with you know the live scope. I don't. So I should say after me seeing it in person to the degree that I saw it, if you were gonna put me on a brand new body of water and say, if you catch a muskie by the end of the day, I'm gonna give you$100,000. I'm actually taking live scope, a thousand percent. There's no question, it's not even close. But from uh understanding the body of water, I'm talking going beyond the simple act of catching fish. For me, it's the mapping.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's getting those those structure, those those depth lines, it's getting all of that perfect.
SPEAKER_03:So now that you've seen the uh forward-facing um technology, the live scope technology, um do you think that um it fits and uh it uh there's a place for it in um muskie fishing, in all kinds of fishing? And how are you now with what you've seen? I know how I would be utilizing it. Uh, how do you utilize that technology to advance Pat Tryon's fishing?
SPEAKER_02:That's a great question because it definitely advances it a lot and fast. I don't care how good you are, if you I mean, it it makes you a better fisherman in every way, but I still lean into the responsible use of it because I don't, I don't like the idea of scoping a fish and then pummeling it until it either bites. But see, even the story I told you earlier with the sewics, I mean, was I not to a degree doing the exact same thing? I mean, I didn't know the fish was there until it showed itself, but I'm still pumping that suic down in there until it either bites or doesn't. But you know what I mean? Like it's a big rate. It's a I need to keep myself honest because it's easy to sit back and say, no, no, no, I I would never use it that way. But I mean, I I kind of was fishing the way that you'd use it. So where's what's the difference? I guess in my in my case, the difference is when I the in the case where I'm pummeling it with that suic, if that fish says, dude, I'm out of here and swims away, I don't know that it left and I'm not following it, continuing to pummel it. I'm fishing that hole now to no avail because the fish has left unknowingly, and I just don't catch one there that day. But when you know they're there and you can follow them, that's where I start getting a little bit iffy. But the question you asked was, how would I use it? And where I'm really excited about the technology is learning new bodies of water. Because with the advancement of the auto charting and the ability to very quickly get a very detailed map of an even an uncharted piece of water, yeah, right. Now all of a sudden, on the water in real time, I've got contours to look at. What I would be doing is taking that, taking that scope and dropping it down into the water. I would put a bait back behind the boat that I could go through very skinny water, like five feet of water with, like a stalker or a seven-inch boss shad that's butted, like something that's not gonna be getting crazy deep that allows me to come out of gear and float up. I don't want to run a spinner bait or something that's gonna sink and get down in the rocks. I always want it popping back up with less speed. I'm gonna put two baits back, assuming I've got a buddy with me running the scope, right? Yeah. I'm I'm gonna have like when we were working as a team this last week, I'm gonna have you pointing up ahead of the boat because then you're giving me real-time readouts about the depth of water in front of the boat. And what it allows us to do is go through very skinny water that we otherwise would not have confidence to be going into in a new body of water while auto-charting. And say you start with an island cluster, right? You go to an island cluster and you do a loop on the very inside edge with that forward-facing sonar because you're saying, Pat, it's four feet up here. Be careful. Yeah. And I, and I can then lean out a little bit deeper to, you know, four feet's a touch shallow at times. Yes, yes. So when we're able to do that, but we're laying down the auto chart and then we do another circle and then another circle working out in outward rings. One, we're ensuring that we're not spending the first day of our trip, you know, fixing a skeg or a shredded propeller.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Two, we're really quickly getting an a fairly accurate map done, like in real time, to turn around and go fish obviously a lot differently. Now maybe we're gonna go cast it.
SPEAKER_03:And not only a clear map of the just the depths, like that that live scope is telling us there's weeds here. Absolutely there's clumps of weeds, there's a rock pile, there's uh there's bait, there's this, and and you're not only getting your contours when you say you're learning the water, you're throwing um uh a multitude of different uh waypoints out there all in one day. You get your map, you get a waypoint group of of locations on on where we saw bait, on where there's weed, on what type of weed. You know, it's it's there's a there's a a log or a tree lying on the bottom, right? So yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That is exactly the type of way that you utilize this technology to amplify your success, is because of how much all of what you just described to mark out the rocks, the weeds, all of that's that's months or years. I mean, it took me 15 years to develop the the waypointing system I have out there. And it's not that it's obsolete, I still lean heavily into the waypoints, but that mapping and that real-time data happens like this. You just get it. And the ability, the one one that you said, the one point that you said was bait, because the structure can look as great as it wants, but if the bait's not there, you're you have a lot less odds of there being fish. So now that you've seen bait, all of a sudden it it validates that area you're choosing to learn. And now that you know the bait's there, you have the weeds marked, you have the spines on your on your auto chart already done. Now your boat positioning, the very next time you go fish it, your boat positioning is not only perfect, but you know exactly what you're casting at. So now you're gonna pick the lure that is going to best be able to work that piece of structure. And you look at your map and you say, oh, look, it transitions to weeds up here that I know from this first run we did. So now I'm gonna go switch to the bucktail of the sewick or whatever. Like you're immediately fishing at a way higher level just by having that knowledge. And there's no technology that gives you that information quicker, full stop.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's it's data. It's data. That's the one thing that I always had kind of um in uh in our our fishing relationship, work relationship, uh, I always would bring it back to the data. And it was more for myself because I wanted to know what data you had. And and um, and this this technology simply gives you data in a way that is so efficient, um, it's unbelievable. And um the reason that I like it so much too is it helps it advances your ability to uh pattern on a on a body of water more than any other technology on the planet, in my opinion. Because for you to pattern and the the uh when I say pattern, it's all data. And data right down to actually seeing fish, like you see the and and and with the live scope, you know, you're always kind of wondering um, is that what I think it is? What is this? I don't know what that is, what is it? Right? But when you see certain things on that live scope, there is no question. There just is no question. When you see a school of bait fish or Cisco or a school of anything moving through the middle of the water column, smallmouth bass, whatever, you know. You just know. When you see a muskie, you know. And and learning taking that data, all of it, and and and it just makes patterning so much easier. Right? You see a log, you see some weeds, or you see a tree branch, and oh, there's some fish on that tree branch. Then you see a uh uh uh another fallen log or a tree, and then oh look, there's fish there too. All of a sudden, you would have never, never even known those those sunken trees were there, but now all of a sudden you're connecting the dots in your mind and you're looking at at um uh a pattern starting to emerge. I can see these trees on uh on uh on uh a sand bottom, and I see some fish in there. You drop down and now you're catching largemouth, and now you can pattern that. Oh, I need to find another tree. How do I do that? Well, you take the live scope and you can troll around, or I know where there was a tree, right? So that live scope to me is um is uh is is an awesome tool. And to the point where I when I was running it with you guys, I didn't even care to fish. I didn't. I just the information that I was getting and the to see the what the bottom really looks like was was amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's what you get with that technology is a much more detailed look at what exactly is down there, right? And I still I lean heavily into side imaging still as well, because for instance, if you're looking for fallen trees on sand bottoms, I I'm I'm gonna say let's troll at five miles an hour, and I'm gonna use my side imaging out left and right, 200 feet each direction because we'll see the we'll see the trees. But now you can go do a loop in the bay. It takes you maybe 30 minutes to see everything. You mark them out and now go back with that live scope and look at each one of those trees in detail. All of a sudden, you're you're counting the number of fish hanging off the off the edge of the tree. And now you're saying, Pah, we've we've got there's there's a school of bass right there, six of them. Yeah, biggest, biggest ones right at the top. I mean, it it is it is exceptional how how tuned in they are. So for me, it's about utilizing it for the discovery phase. That's where I like to use the electronics, because maybe I'm old-fashioned or maybe I'm, you know, in trout fishing, we'd call them like the purists. You know, you can you can only trout fish with barbless hooks, one single fly on a floating line. Like everything has to be like traditionalized, you know? And like I remember being like, dude, that's dumb. Just go catch all, just catch them. Like, who cares? Right. Yeah. But but I get it now because I like the hunt of the fish. Like, I almost don't want to know they're there. I don't disagree. The fastest way to catch them is by going and looking for them, a thousand percent. That's not what it is for me, man. Like one of the best days you and I had on the water, yeah, we caught a nice muskie, but you were describing the differences between the red pines and the white pines on the shoreline. So as we're trolling along and you're we're talking about how many, how many of the needles come out of each of the needle buds and and how it makes their look different. And then you're looking at the bark and you're looking at how they're growing out of the rocks, and you know, there it is, Coco. Exactly. Like, like to me, that is the excitement. It's not the eyes glued watching, tracking, and then boom, we finally got her to bite. Okay, cool. And yeah, you caught fish and maybe, maybe even a giant. And that's great. That's really great. That's not what fishing is for me. So I don't want to do it. You know, like it's not about the catching, it's about the experience. So uh I mean for that reason, you know, when I was a guide, I had to lean into it's really a lot of times about the fish. Let's go, go, go, go, go. And it, and it, when I focused too much on that, thinking that's what everybody thought, and then realizing later that it really is more experiential, it was okay to start, to start leaning more into the experience. But if you're a guide who feels like they're competing with four or five other anglers who were all going out and having all of this great fish success, you start to question is the experience better? Because everybody's looking at all the fish thinking that's the boat to be on. Like again, it it's it's how you balance that. That is why the the learning your guests and understanding what it is that they're after is really the most important. You gotta have the skill to execute. I don't deny that, but you need to be able to curate an experience to the that's attuned to what your guest wants no matter what.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. 100%.
SPEAKER_02:Be good with everything, be good with the technology, be use it to your best advantage, but do it in a way that you feel good about and that your guests are happy with. And you've won, dude. It's really that simple. You win.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, like yeah, you're absolutely right. And um, I um I really, I really love that um live scope technology um for all of the reasons that we we talked about. But um let's talk a little bit about um uh the highs and the heartbreaks of uh of um guiding lodge owning, you know. Can you can you um uh think of a few of your most um unforgettable um we'll go heartbreaks. Oh we'll go heartbreaks.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, yeah. Uh yeah, with fishing with Phil, our chef at the time. Uh I lost one of the biggest, one of the biggest muskies I'd had. Probably by weight. It didn't look crazy long, but you know, low 50s for sure. But it was it was mid or late October, and it was really heavy. I mean, it was it it was the right build, you know.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um and we lost it. I mean, it was hooked on a 12-inch swim bait, a 12-inch shadzilla, and it came off the poor fellow. He he he poked the edge of the fish with the rim of the net. Instead of getting the net right deep and letting the fish swim in, he he started lifting the net and the fish wasn't even in the net yet. About maybe not even half, half of the fish had cleared the net, but it wasn't in the net by any means. And when he lifted up, the fish went crazy. And I we've got on video, it's actually on Slobland's. If you look up Pat the Pro with question marks by Slobland Flicks, it's in there. It's you should watch it because it's it's very funny. But from a heartbreak perspective, at the time, it was probably the heaviest fish I'd ever had casting. And man, it was so and we we did all the work, like man, we worked this day hard, and we had this fish finally eat, and and and to lose that fish in the way that we did was heartbreaking. Is it's almost not even strong enough. I mean, Phil, I went and saw him out in out in Ottawa like years later. And we were at breakfast, and he said, Hey man, I just I really want to apologize again about that fish. Like that thing has been living in his mind for for like a decade, man. This has been this has been like 15 years later. He's like, Man, I'm really sorry. And I hug him and I said, Brother, this see, that's the experience. He'll I guarantee he'll never make that mistake again. Unfortunately, we stopped fishing together, and I don't know that he's been out musky fishing that much, but you know, those are you, you gotta make those mistakes. I made those mistakes, but you you gotta make those mistakes to learn why you don't make those mistakes. Unfortunately, it happened on what was literally probably the biggest fish I'd have ever caught casting at that point. And I was, I was, it was gut-ready. Even watching the video back to this day, and you can hear even in my voice, and I'm being patient, I'm not, I'm not upset at Phil, I'm not, but but you gotta watch the video because in the process, somehow every one of my rods that's on the deck of the boat has ended up in the water. And the net, and the net is also not in anybody's hand. It's just over the side of the boat. And I'm just like, I'm just like, grab the net, grab the. I don't even care. I could have lost everything because in that moment I had already lost it all. And uh just to hear the deflation, man, it it was a beautiful day, but yeah, that was heartbreaking, brother. That was hard.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That was hard.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'll tell you what. Um, you did the heartbreak. Um, I'm gonna do one of the highs when it comes to Muskie. And uh folks, you've heard you've heard quite a few of uh of the highs um uh in in past uh shows. So I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna draw on one that I haven't um I haven't talked about. And that was, you know, aside from aside from um catching fish with my kids, because those are always really monumental highs. Um this fish was the first really big fish that that um I'm gonna say for now that I caught, but as a guide. And again, I wasn't charging because I I just that's the way I felt. I just felt bad. And it was more a fear of um of uh of doing a bad job and people not um wanting to pay me. So it was it was an excuse in my mind, and it was probably the wrong thing to do. But I thought that if I said, I'm not you're not paying me, we're going fishing as friends, that way. If we didn't catch fish or if I made mistakes, didn't make a difference. But anyway, this goes back to September, early September, like probably the second or third of um 2013. So I had owned the lodge for um this 2013, so 10 uh was our first year, so that's like our um the third season. And I had a a wonderful couple we had um staying with us from Vermont. And um uh they were you know early 70s, and um um the lady that uh that was there and and uh I'm just trying to think of her name. Um I think it was Veronica. But anyway, they went out and uh they fished with um with um I forget maybe you took them out. No, 2013 wasn't uh you weren't there. So that would have been maybe if Phil or somebody took them out muskie fishing. And they wanted a muskie guide for every day. Um and um uh they wanted to cast, but they they couldn't cast very well. Um, so I had them out with uh, I forget, Trevor maybe, Trevor, but it doesn't matter. They did some trolling and then uh they said to me, can can we cast? But we can't cast all that well, uh, but we'd like to catch one that way, holding on to the rods. And they didn't catch actually with uh while they were trolling. So I said, Yeah, you know what? I'll take you out. Um, and um I'll just uh cast for you and uh you guys can reel in the rod. So what I did um was I went to all of the regular spots, you know, the you know, flagpole, whatever, whatever, all of the spots that I knew, which weren't many because I didn't muskie fish. Not a whole lot anyway. I just go by what you guys would tell me. And I would uh I had the the um the Tarova at the time. So I had a trolling motor with the um with the the the key fob to control it around my neck, the remote. And um I would set up the remote and just slowly troll or slowly drive by these spots, and I would go to the front of the boat and I would throw a cast out for um uh Veronica, and then I would go and hand her the rod, she would reel it in, I'd go to the back of the boat for Bill, throw him a cast out, and then by the time I was done throwing that cast, I was ready to cast the rod at the front, and I went back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth all day long. And we didn't get anything. And um, the following day was a Friday, and um I remember um I felt bad because we didn't get anything, and uh, they were leaving on the Saturday. I didn't have a guide for them on the Friday, but I was leaving at noon. So I said to them that night, uh, listen, I can take you out in the morning. Why don't you let me take you out in the morning? And uh they didn't want to go because we uh they we got to know each other and they knew that I was leaving, right? So they didn't want to go, they didn't want it. Veronica's like, listen, I don't want you to miss going home to see your kids. Like, I mean, I don't, I don't want that. So anyway, I said, no, we're gonna, we're gonna go. Um, we went out that morning and the wind was ridiculous. Like, and we trolled from uh because we couldn't cast. Like, I mean, it was just it was terrible. Trolled all the way to the lake, all the way back. Um we got uh we got back for for lunch, and uh they were like, okay, well, thank you very much, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going back out after lunch. And they're like, no, we absolutely refuse. You've got to go home. I know you've got to go home. I'm like, no. Well, listen, I'm going back out after lunch. So if you would like to join me, you're more than welcome. So anyway, I talked them into it. We went back out and um we we trolled around. Long story short, we got right to the to the green pin at the lodge. And it's a great spot. It was one of those spots that as a lodge owner, when the guy, when somebody was would come to me and say, Hey, um, I want to catch a muskie. Where should I go? I'd just point to that green buoy right there because it was a convenient buoy in sight and say, Go fish that. And on a couple of occasions, guests would come back and say, I got one, right? So I'm thinking, okay, and there's a tricky little spot to get through. And um uh I the I said, okay, this is our last spot. And it was about four o'clock, whatever it was. It was time to go in. And um, I drove through that spot, and uh our baits hung up on weeds, and I was like, oh, and then and then Veronica's like, well, no, that was great, thank you. And I'm like, no, just let's let's I gotta hit this spot right. If there's any it just I gotta hit it right, and in my mind, I'm thinking, uh, you know what? I've I've failed as a guide, but I'm going to by God, I'm gonna get this last spot right. And um uh we cleaned off the baits, I did another loop, and I cut right through this this this uh uh uh um uh saddle perfectly. And as we got through, a fish hit the hit the one rod so hard it sounded like a whip crack. Like there was no, it was more of a snap because I had to have I think I had like 30 feet out behind the boat because it was that skinny. And um, and uh on and the fight was on, right? I got the the rod and Veronica reeled this fish in and she fought it. Uh her husband was there and and uh um he was he was just in awe. Like, I mean the guy was once he saw the fish at the top of the water, he had to sit down. She fought it, got it in, we put it in the net, and um, and uh with a with uh a little coaxing and uh coaching, uh she held that fish, and I got a picture of it, and that picture will live in my mind forever. This slight, beautiful 70-something year old woman holding on to a the first 50-inch fish that I put in the boat ever. And uh that was one of the um extreme highs that I had uh at Chaudiere because not not only was it um a big fish, it was the first 50, but it was a little piece of validation in the back of my mind that said you did a good job guiding. You did okay, you know, and um and uh they were uh the and she was just over the moon. And uh and then and then I said once we released it, okay, we can go in now. Yeah, yeah. So that uh that was uh that was one of the best. But uh again, uh Pat, any any thoughts on anything that we've talked about that uh that uh we've uh we've missed covering?
SPEAKER_02:Nothing we've missed. We just could go into infinitely more detail. But yeah, listen, man, it we've covered a lot. And let's uh yeah, I tell you what, you asked about all these how do you use technologies, let's talk gear, we've we've run through it all today. But you what you just said, you know, when I'm when I'm listening to that story, it's the persistence. You know, there's just no quit, there's no accepting less than your best. And even when you do that, no, you don't always catch them. And I and I get that, but it was that belief, maybe that persistence in, okay, I failed as a guide because I didn't catch one, which by the way, that doesn't not catching fish doesn't mean you fail as a guide. But but it was in that you said, I'm at least gonna troll this right. Yes. Okay, we didn't catch a fish, and now I've probably blown out the spot because you know, we we did it wrong the first time, but I'm at least gonna get it right because maybe next time I'll get it better. And you get immediately rewarded with the fish of a lifetime for somebody who truly deserved it. And man, that's the persistence that you need. Like above all else, I don't care whether you're in a rowboat, I don't care if you're standing on shore and have no electronics. You don't catch unless you consistently and persistently cast that bait or troll and cover shoreline or whatever it is, you gotta be playing the game to win. And that story proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt. You can only find success in fishing by fishing. And good for you for, I mean, honestly, you made, and I love that photo. I love that photo. Yeah, it's a big fish for a small, for a small gal. And the fact that I mean, she went through, I remember hearing this, she went through a week of muskie fishing for that one. That's her persistence. She played her part. Yeah. Then it and then you showed up and you played your part, and everything came together. So, above all else, man, you just you can't ever quit. You just gotta keep going, man. Doesn't matter what technology, doesn't matter what gear, it doesn't matter. You have to have that that ingrained, maybe that's the addiction coming through that we started out talking about, right? It could happen.
SPEAKER_03:It's that well that that was that's very addictive. That and I'm not even talking about that feeling um that you would get when you catch a muskie. There's a certain addiction that comes along with with um giving somebody something so special, or not that I gave them anything, but helping to provide something in their life that that is is so special, right? And they're and when that happens, man oh man, that truly is addictive for sure. And on that note, Patrick, thank you so much for for doing this once again.
SPEAKER_02:You are very welcome, and once again, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_03:Anytime, brother. And uh folks, uh, why don't you take this opportunity to head on over to fishingcanada.com and uh go in all those giveaways, but more importantly, thank you for getting to this point. I really appreciate it. Uh and Nixon, if you're out there listening, night night, buddy. And uh folks, uh Lakeside Marine, again, I can't say enough about these guys up in Red Lake, Ontario. Um, it's it's one of the best. Uh, if you're ever in the area, stop in, say hello, tell them Steve sent you. And uh, folks, thus brings us to the conclusion of another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North. I'm a good old boy, never meaning no harm.
SPEAKER_06:I'll be the only you ever saw been reeling in the hog since the day I was born.
SPEAKER_03:Bendin' my rug, stretching my line.
SPEAKER_06:Someday I might on a lodge and that'd be fine.
SPEAKER_03:I'll be making my way the only way I know how. Working hard and sharing the north with all of my plows. I'm a good old boy.
SPEAKER_04:A bottle and live my dream. And now I'm here talking about how life can be as good as it seems. Yeah. Hi everybody, I'm Angelo Viola. And I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favorite fishing show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right. Every Thursday, Ann and I will be right here in your ears, bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Hmm. Now, what are we going to talk about for two hours every week? Well, you know there's gonna be a lot of fishing.
SPEAKER_07:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes, all the other guys would go golfing.
SPEAKER_00:Me and Garchomp and Turks, and all the Russians would go fishing.
SPEAKER_08:The scientists. But now that we're reforesting and letting things, it's the perfect transmission environment for line with these.
SPEAKER_05:Chefs, if any game isn't cooked properly, marinated for you will taste it.
SPEAKER_04:And whoever else will pick up the phone. Wherever you are, Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_01:But they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Olet, and I was honored to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as Chaga, a tree conch, with centuries of medicinal use by indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials, and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession. And I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts.