Episode 133: Mentors, Muskies, And Mindset

What if the fastest way to get better at anything isn’t a “secret spot,” but a better way of thinking? We welcome muskie guide and entrepreneur Pat Tryon for a wide-open conversation about the habits that turn long slogs into sudden breakthroughs: studying structure, compressing the search with smart tech, learning shoulder-to-shoulder with experts, and keeping your ego out of the way when the pattern isn’t clear yet.

Pat takes us back to the Upper French River and a nerdy off-season project that changed everything: knowing every rock. By scanning maps, drilling contours, and building a mental atlas, he could spot one winning setup and instantly jump to five more that matched. We unpack how this off-water practice speeds on-water results, why dock mapping and contour reading matter more than hot tips, and how modern sonar reveals what many of us used to dismiss. The theme isn’t gadgets—it’s using tools to support a clear process.

We also get practical about mentorship. Pat explains how riding with seasoned anglers exposes the real craft you never see on highlight reels: boat angles, cadence changes, timing, and the patience to let a lure suspend longer than your nerves prefer. Add in the human hack of talking to everyone—locals on the dock, bait shop owners, quiet regulars—and you’ll catch the small cues that switch your day on. Throughout, we connect these lessons to everyday life: pattern recognition, data-informed decisions, and honest iteration help in business, creative work, and any tough learning curve.

If you’re ready to trade “what’s the secret?” for a system that actually works—persistence plus skill, guided by genuine curiosity—this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves to learn, and drop us a review with the best hack you’ve picked up from a mentor. Which part of your craft will you study next?

Transcript

Why Learn From People In Person

SPEAKER_03 0:05

To put yourself in a position where you can learn from somebody who has the experience, somebody else who's walked your path, who has combined persistence with the application of skill, and ideally it's fueled by passion. But again, that's that's the bonus. Um to put yourself in a position to see it unfold in person, I think is a critically fundamental tip.

Winter, Health Setbacks, And Perspective

SPEAKER_06 0:30

This week on the Outdoor Journal Radio Podcast Networks, Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North, we sit down with fishing expert, muskie guide, entrepreneur extraordinaire, and close member of our Diaries family, Pat Tryon. Not only do we dive into the art of muskie fishing, we focus on potentially monumental little hacks that can reshape your learning curve and turn a good day into a truly unforgettable experience. On this show, Pat and I don't just talk about catching the elusive musk-a lunge. We explore how the mindset and problem solving that comes from fishing can apply to any real-world challenge, from patience and observation to adapting your strategy on the fly. These tools go far beyond the shoreline. So relax and open your mind to these thoughts because you're going to get a glimpse of how the skills we hone on the water can ripple into your everyday life. Here's my conversation with Pat Tryon. Welcome to another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner Stories of the North. And folks, um, needless to say, I'm always excited when we have uh good friends on the podcast. And today we have none other than the fantastic Patrick Tryon. And uh Patrick, say hello to the Diaries family. We're all excited to catch up with you.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Hello, Diaries family. I'm always excited to uh hang out with you, and by virtue of hanging out with you, the whole family. So happy to be here, Stevie.

SPEAKER_06 2:20

Yeah, yeah. So, Patrick, uh, how's winter been treating you? Winter winter's winter's been a doozy, bud. Uh I know. It is quite a doozy.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Let's it's fine. Uh I had I had shingles in in December, and then Oh my god. And then like three weeks after that, I got you know, like a fever, stomach flu, and then literally the next weekend norovirus, which I guess is just like another type of flu. It's been one thing after another, but you know what, you just you just chug along and and you know, get get through it. So it's all good. I'm here. And uh if these are the biggest of my problems, I'm doing all right.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, jingles sucked, man. I've never had it, but uh I saw uh I saw a picture that you sent, I believe, and uh and it didn't look like it was nice at all.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

No, it was horrid. Yeah, it was but but you know, again, like with with health things that are temporary, and now she I mean it lasted near a month. It was it was pretty crazy, and the nerve pain l persisted. Even after everything cleared up, the nerve pain stayed. But, you know, a month goes by, it is now gone, and I'm fine. I mean, you know, there's people out there who have chronic health problems that that they're staring down the barrel of something that may never go away. And like here's mine. Sure, it was agony for 30 days, but and now I'm fine. I mean, it's it's just a distant memory. So again, if if that is the the extent of the health problems I deal with in life, may they always be temporary. At least I hope.

Offseason Routines And Family Time

SPEAKER_06 4:08

1000%. So, what does a musky dude like you um do in the offseason when the snow has got us um uh bound to our uh to our little homes and and uh and uh we have nowhere to chase the big beast?

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Uh well, you know, work keeps me certainly pretty busy. Uh and I'm lucky to be able to work from home. So uh, you know, on the snow days that uh keep us inside or or you know, the the general winter weather that kind of keeps us inside, uh, I am at least lucky enough that I can be productive if I choose to be. Uh so you know, it's always a struggle to maintain productivity uh at at the house, especially when I've got two littles running around and wanting to play. And we we have our fun. We build we build we build sleds out front or slides out in the front yard, and you know, we have fun. But uh yes, stay productive.

A Full Circle Mentorship Story

Becoming A Mentor And Rethinking “Mistakes”

SPEAKER_06 5:07

Well, listen, productive is uh is tough from home. I don't care who you are, you've got to be a certain kind of person to be able to manage that. Um, but having said that, I can tell you that those moments with the with with your littles, um, make sure that you enjoy every minute of it because uh they go very, very, very quickly. And um just having those moments on a regular basis and being home uh is is a blessing in disguise. Um but uh and you know what? Like I mean, um I can say that for uh for my family. Like I uh I was just actually uh uh looking uh at some pictures for uh the website for um for the cottage and and uh um looking at um building um um experiences that I want to offer people through the cottage. And I come across um, you remember that day that we went uh we took Rayburn and Mikey fishing, and he was um he was back even back then when he was young, he was extremely persistent um when it came to um muskie. Um he wanted he he he always hung out at the dock, both boys did when they were young, because that was where all the fish were coming in, that was where the guides were moving back and forth. That was that was a place where they loved to be. And I remember Rayburn um distinctly coming to me on a couple of occasions saying, Dad, I want to go muskie fishing with Pat. I want to go muskie fishing with Pat. And uh, I don't think he would have been much more than maybe seven or eight. Um, and we took both of them out and we went out to um uh Sugarloaf and we were trolling that one shoreline and he caught that 32-inch uh muskie, the first muskie he ever caught. And uh I just come across that picture, right? So it's um it's a full circle kind of thing, right? And and even even to this day, um, he's become a uh a fanatic, really. Um I I I I I have I have been using the word addict, but um that carries uh negative uh negative kind of connotations. Um so I've I've decided that I'm going to uh uh use the word fanatic uh from here on in to the point where um you're kind of mentoring him. And uh it reminds me of when we first started to build our relationship. And um and um it it it this whole full circle thing is um is uh is really, really cool. And um I'd love to kind of uh expand on on that kind of mentorship idea because um I remember when the first time I ever heard your voice, um Patrick A Tryon was the first phone call that uh I ever received after I bought Chaudiere. And uh you were I don't even know how old were you when you called me then?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

I guess I'd have been maybe 17 or 18 at that point.

SPEAKER_06 8:49

Yeah, it was 2010. No, it would have been 2009.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:03

You were very concerned that I had bought the lodge and I was going to turn it into a family commune, and that your reservation wasn't going to be honored. And you were you were very quick to explain to me that you've already put your deposit down and that you were that uh it was important that you were able to come.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yeah, we're coming.

SPEAKER_06 9:24

So yeah, basically you said yes, and uh and I had uh I bought it to uh uh uh as a business, and I was very, very um um excited and felt a little bit of relief because I knew in that moment that I had one person that was coming.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

What you didn't know is you would literally never get rid of me. I mean, from that point forward, buddy, you you got Pat and that was it. I don't care what you're doing, uh you're getting Pat.

The Real “Secret”: Persistence And Skill

SPEAKER_06 9:59

Yeah, you're getting Pat. Yeah, and now it's almost um it's almost that uh and and we uh we grew a lot together. Um some of my uh my favorite uh memories and moments um uh all revolved around you and um uh um what you brought to the lodge and your personality and um how how I was able to coach um not just you but a lot of the um a lot of the staff because um when you have a business like that and and a and a real interest in um in doing something that you love, you really want to coach those people that are involved. And for me, it was it was friends, employees, it was it was the way that uh we built that Chaudière model. And um I I enjoy watching um you do that with Rayburn. And maybe tell me a little bit about what it's like to be a mentor and be on the other side of that coin.

Hack 1: Study The Structure

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah, it's very surreal, actually, because you know, you you you're watching the things unfold as the mentor, you're watching the mentee, I guess would be the name. Uh you're you're you're you're watching them kind of I don't want to say make mistakes, because it's not like there's no mistakes that are being made, but you're watching the learning curve, and you are sitting there saying, my i i if you if you could only see it from from my perspective, it would cut a tremendous amount of the learning curve down. And it and it drives me crazy, mostly because I made all the exact same, you know, mistakes, or you know, again, I I hate to call them mistakes because it's life is really just about a learning process. You're not always gonna get it correct, but that doesn't mean it's a mistake. It just means it's an opportunity to growth. Right. And and and it's funny, it's very humorous because I was doing the exact same things. So it's it's actually more that I'm kind of looking at the past version of myself and being like, why couldn't you have done it? You know, but come on, that's 20 years ago now. So so it's it's um it's teaching me additional layers of patience. Um, and and quite honestly, man Rayburn's been wonderful. He's he's growing so rapidly in the sport, and his understanding of of complex subjects, it's it's growing very rapidly. Um, you could argue, you know, okay, I it's well, you know, Pat's telling them all the secrets or whatever. First of all, I don't have secrets, man. You know what I have? I have like 20 years of persistence doing something that has just given me a tremendous amount of life experience in that very niche category of learning, and I'm sharing that with him. And it's not like these are secrets, it's not like I have, you know, there's no secret spots, there's no, there's no secret techniques. It's it's more about how do you think? And and that's what I'm trying to impart the most is if if we can if we can adjust how we think, it we can, we can sort of slant the odds in our success, no matter what the topic is. In this case, he wants to learn about muskie and muskie fishing, but I'm really trying to give him a more of a framework for how do we how do we look at something that we want to accomplish and accomplish it full thought.

SPEAKER_06 13:41

Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And you know what? I think um um far too many people when they look at other people who are successful in an area, think that there's some sort of a secret that they use to get there. And um sometimes maybe there is something that they're doing different or something that gives them um a um um an advantage. But it's not a secret. Those are things that that people learn from hard work and from immersing themselves in that area, you know, it's um it's the old uh um uh how many uh thousands of hours do you have to do something to become an expert, you know. Um, I know with trades they talk about 9,000 hours, right? To to become a a journeyman. And um, but it's hard for people of all ages, even myself. I look at all this uh um uh AI stuff and all the things that are going on in the world and everything else, and I think that wow, that there's somebody, somebody's no, they know a secret. Like they know, but really I think it's just a matter of applying yourself in the framework that you're talking about and learning about those situations. Um, and and and those secrets, if you want to call them that, when you're in the middle of your learning curve, inevitably things pop out that you didn't understand before, but now you're starting to create and you're starting to see how other things work. Like, I mean, I'm sure that uh along the way in your in your other career online, um, you've found things and and you've moved and and you shake and and you you test and you see what works and what doesn't. And that's kind of the secret, right?

Building A Mental Map Of The River

SPEAKER_03 15:52

It's that is the secret. Like everybody says, what's the secret? And they're looking for that nuanced piece. Like I still get messages to this day about people saying, Hey, I'm going up, I'm going up to the French on these dates. Where should I start? You know, like I'm like, one, I'm like, I I don't know, I'm not there. What where's the bait? Where's that, you know, I I need more data. I can't just like pick a spot to say go here. Like they're they're thinking it's that the secret is in some really specified piece of of information that will lead them to success. And the reality is, you said it almost perfectly uh for my definition of sort of you know the the secret to everything in life is, in my opinion, it's something along the lines of this is an in fisherman quote, by the way. Uh it's it's persistence and the application of skill. If you if you are persistent in applying skill, it doesn't matter whether it's to fishing, whether it's to this online stuff, whether it's to uh you know, uh dog grooming, I you know, I groom my dogs, I like like you know You groom my dogs. I groom your dogs. I I'm into I'm into aquariums, I'm into there's there's all types of of hobbies or or any skill really or or something you want to learn. It is persistence and it is the application of skill. So if you pick up a new hobby and in the first, you know, 30, 60, 90 days, there's a rapid growth curve because your the skill picks up very, very quickly. You try it, this doesn't work. Like even in sports, right? If if you're gonna if you're gonna play basketball and you throw the ball, you've never touched a ball in your life, you throw the ball and you say, Nope, that wasn't enough power, I need more. Then you throw it, you go right up and over the hoop, and okay, that's too much power. And you you can see how by applying skill, you can get better and and you know, through practice, because I don't care what the skill is, I think every human being is capable of improving their skill level at something. Sure, some people might be a natural and be able to do it quicker, but anybody through persistence and application of skill can get better at something. That is the secret. But it's the persistence. And Rayburn is extremely persistent. I mean, ridiculously so. Again, so much so I see myself and him so much because that was that was the quote pat of when, you know, when I was 10, 11, starting to go up to the lodge and really into fishing my whole life, even prior to going, you know, to Chaudier Lodge the first time. Um, it was this ridiculous persistence. And then when the passion is there, it's very easy. Because the passion is gonna fuel that persistence and you're gonna, you know, the passion pushes you through those tough times. The passion is really the kind of the fuel to all of this. But even without a huge passion, you can still get very good at something through persistence and application of skill. The passion just makes it very, very easy. And I personally used little hacks I kind of discovered inadvertently on the way that to be I in the moment I didn't realize were hacks. But looking back and reflecting, part of the reason, for instance, why I was so successful on the upper fringe was finding alternative motivations besides just I want to catch musky. It was it was how I found the smaller intrinsic motivations that ultimately fueled that persistence because there was always something left to be done. And and that made it an open-ended engagement as opposed to, you know, I want to catch muskie. Well, what does that mean? If you catch one, you're done. And that's obviously not the case. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

Let's talk about them individually, because um I think that there's definitely a little chunk of gold here. I'm all I'm a I'm a miner, and and I feel like there's something here. So let's talk about that.

Off-Water Practice To Speed Learning

Mapping Docks From Your Armchair

Tech Myths And Sonar Truths

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Well, get your pickaxe, baby, because we'll go in. You know, I this is not an idea I've ever it's not an idea I've come up with. I've read it in other places as well. But what I realized is before I ever read about it, I was already employing some of these techniques, right? So again, I want to be very clear. This is not something, this isn't like, you know, I thought of this, but I did employ it very early on. And one of the major things is having some type of a motivator that is outside of the very specific goal. And what I mean by that is okay, I was already a fisherman going up prior to going to Showtier Lodge. And just to give you an example of how ignorant I was to the upper French River in Lake Nipissing, as but prior to my first trip, we picked that we're gonna go here. My mom is taking me, we picked that we're gonna go there. I I'm Googling or looking online for any information, which man, back then, I mean, the internet's been alive for two years, bro. Like there's like no information really. There's there's some old maps that I've found, and just to put in perspective the level of ignorance of of me at that point. And at that point, you're like early 2000s. Yeah, nah, I think 2000 was our first year. Nice, the summer of 2000. So I'm 12, I guess. At that point, I believe that on our first day, I am going to leave Chaudi Air Lodge and drive to the West Arm to fish largemouth bass. Now, just to put it in perspective for the listeners who may not, you know, fully get what that means, in a cedar strip boat, that is probably a three and a half hour boat ride. The most perfect ideal conditions if you know where the rocks are and can navigate there. But on the map, I didn't understand the scale. And I'm thinking, oh, it's just around that corner. I'm just going to go right around that point, which is, you know, Fisherman Island, which is that in, you know, that's an hour and 20 minutes in a feeder strip. I'm thinking, I'm just going to swing around that point and slide back in because that bay looks pretty bassy to me. Right. So I say that because it's critically important to understand that I had absolutely no idea what I was getting into going up here. None whatsoever. But I get there, uh, we take Bob Purple, Bob Violette, our very first day, that's actually what we did. And we go out and we do walleye. And uh walleye never really jumped out at me as an exciting fish. Now keep in mind, I'm coming from San Diego, where I've been fishing for, you know, 10-pound largemouth and and going offshore for 50-pound tuna. And and you know, you pull on one of those for two and a half hours and they rip the arms out of your sockets, and and now I'm catching walleye. I mean, you know, this this is not what I thought the Canadian experience was going to be. Delicious, no doubt, the shorelunch world class. But from a from a sportsman perspective and a and an angling perspective, walleye leave a lot to be desired in terms of their ability to put up a good fight. So while while jigging walleye, boom, I set the hook on something and she's peeling line, and I'm like, okay, here we go. And it turns out to be about a 24-inch northern pike. And I said, this is my fish. You know, like this is what I'm doing the rest of the time we're here because the the pike, that's what you want. So to skip through a lot of the unnecessary details, uh, I I chased Pike that that the rest of that first year, mostly casting up shallow and and you know, recognizing that they were, you know, sort of often up in the shallows near rocks and weeds and you know, all of this. And I was talking to Jerry at the lodge, and he was the he was the former owner prior to you. Yep. And I know you know that, but just so that the consensus can follow something. Yeah, I'm I'm speaking to Jerry, and Jerry was not the friendliest individual, but he always had a very generous, for Jerry's definition of generosity, um, sort of stance towards me. He always helped me. He never shrugged me off. He never, I mean, he really tried to help me find success. And so he's handing me spinner baits. And I've I've seen them from bass, right? Um, you know, my bath days. But I said, okay, great. And and I said, you know, where where should I be going? And he said, well, go go fish rocks. And I said, okay. So I so that's what I'm doing now. I'm catching these pike around rocks and weeds. And now, and several days later, I'm talking to Jerry and I said, Yeah, I found, I, I, there's like this rock and there's that rock, and you know, I'm I'm I'm pointing out specific rocks where I'm catching these fish. And and I said, Do you know of any other rocks like this? And he goes, he goes, Pat, you can't know all the rocks. And I heard that, and I said, like, fuck you can't. Because here's what I know. There, I've got a map, right? The hydrographic map that's on the wall. And and I my mom and I had gone to Riverview to buy one, right? So I I can take it home. And I said, there's it's not an infinite number of rocks, so you can know all the rocks, you know? Yeah. Uh and and I that was the fuel, that was the side project. Okay, yeah, the fishing was what I wanted to do, but I said, I'm gonna know every freaking rock out here. And I went home and I scanned that giant map, the big Canadian hydrographic map. I scanned it into my computer at home with the the the tech, it's hilarious, man. Like those big copy machines with the lid that comes down, you know. I'm I'm piece by piece, I'm scanning this into the computer and I printed it out. I laminated every sheet so it was waterproof, put it into a three-hole punch binder, and I carried that book with me every single place that I went. I took it to school. I took it on car rides when I had to sit in the back of the seat and in the back of the car and drive down to the city with my with my dad or whatever we were doing, because we lived a bit more rural. So if we had a 45-minute drive, man, I had that map out and I was studying it. And then I started making, I took a piece of printer paper and overlaid it on top, and I outlined just the outline of the river, and I would make like five copies of one page, and then I would close the book and I would go through, and man, I would asterisk every single rock that was on the hydrographic map. I asterisk every single rock and that I could remember, and then I'd flip it open and I'd look at it, and then in red, I would asterisk all the ones that I'd missed, and then I'd close it, and then I would do it, and I, bro, I I went to work. I mean, it was like a an off-season project. Every single year, I just would add more rocks to my mental database. So the goal would be that when I was out there, I could, if I was sitting in the mouth of Bob's Bay fishing pike, and again, I'm a pike guy at this point, right? I'm but it's critically fundamental to my understanding of muskie later and being able to pattern them much more quickly because I didn't need to think where where can I find more rocks that meet this profile. Buddy, I knew it. I mean, I I'd catch a muskie off of this type of a break that was facing to the north because the wind was blowing through, and instantly I knew where there were five more. So, you know, critically fundamental to the patterning, but it was the rocks that fueled that. It wasn't, I mean, yes, the fishing's important, and it was ultimately about catching the fish, but it was in studying the rocks, in studying the river, that actually gave me the foundation of knowledge, not only to apply to muskie, but every single species of fish out there.

SPEAKER_06 28:26

That's ridiculous. It is ridiculous. So, hack number one, study rocks.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

I mean, listen, it can be anything you want to study, but I find that by it's an external motivator. It's it's something that is separate from the immediate goal that will be a foundation to support not only that goal, but many others as well as a natural byproduct. But how could I, as a 12-year-old living in San Diego, practice muskie fishing from San Diego when I wasn't there? It's not possible. I can't. I could cast big lures, I could, I could cast, you know, there's things I guess I could do, but realistically, if you can't go practice the craft, how how else can you develop skill? And I went through it with, I guess, mental skill. I I developed my mental skill off the water in order to better apply it on the water.

Network Promos

Hack 2: Put Yourself With Experts

Kill Ego, Keep An Open Mind

SPEAKER_06 29:23

It's funny. Um, I did something similar, and it wasn't my idea either. Um, actually, Joss at um the Angler, what's that uh place over in Woodstock? Um Angler Outfitter. Angler Outfitters, yep. Yeah, yeah. Joss, uh, this was early in my uh my tournament fishing days. So, you know, in that early 2000s when La Rance first came out with um their GPS uh mapping. And um Joss was the one that said, hey, you need to look at these maps. And he opened my eyes to um different uh perspectives. And uh part of it was he wanted to sell me another chip, but um I was uh I was working uh or um uh working on Lake Simcoe or learning Lake Simcoe because we were fishing uh that Simcoe tournament, close to home, uh big, awesome lake, big fish. And um Jos said, Um uh, Steve, you need to buy this chip. And I'm like, what chip are you talking about, Jos? And he pulled out a map, like a roadmap chip. Wasn't even a hydrological chip, it was a roadmap chip that would go into the Lowrance. I forget, it was one of the very first um um uh units that supported the GPS. And um he said, you need to hook this, your Lowrance, to a battery beside your lazy boy. And in the wintertime, you need to look at this. And I and that was a concept for me that I had never really thought about. Like, I mean, to actually take the unit and hook it to a car battery beside my lazy boy chair. Like, I mean, to do that was like I it just never occurred to me that people were actually doing this kind of thing. And um, he said, Yeah, and you put this roadmap chip in there. And I said, Why a roadmap chip, Jos? And me being young back then, I was probably my early 20s, whatever, wherever I was somewhere, but I was young in um um uh intellectually in this uh realm as well. And I said, What is this roadmap? And he said, Well, come let me show you. And he had on display the units and he would put the chip in, and I'm sure he sold that chip to a hundred other anglers too, but that's beside the point. He'd stick the chip in and he'd say, Okay, Steve, what do you see here? And I said, I see nothing in the water. Like, I mean, the water was just like the blue, chunky, grainy, the shoreline wasn't even all that close. Um, and uh he said, Okay, let's uh uh you're a smart guy. You just got out of college. Um, what do you look for uh when you're fishing for bass? And uh I said, Well, you know, weed beds and this and that. He said, No, no, we're talking cover. What's the best cover on Lake Simcoe? And I'm and I'm and I he didn't even give well, I was he he had me flustered. He had me flustered. Yeah, so I didn't even answer before he's like, Okay, dum dum, you're college guy. The best cover I'm gonna tell you on Lake Simcoe is docks. Okay, do you know where the docks are? And I said, Yeah, they're on the shore. He said, No, they're not on the whole shore. How good how are you gonna find docks? And I said, Well, you you'll look for them, Josh. And he said, No, from your chair, from your lazy boy chair, how are you gonna find docks on Lake Simcoe? I said, I don't know. He said, Well, you look at this map now. What do you see on the shoreline? And I said, Well, I see roads. He says, Yes, yes, now you're thinking like a college student. Look at these roads. What do you see here? And he's pointing at these little driveways that it's it's um showing on the shoreline. I said, uh uh, they look like driveways. He said, Yes. So if there's a cottage there, what do you think is out front? A dock. Yes. Yes. Now you look at all these docks on this on this uh chip and uh are all these cottages now what are the best docks? And now I'm kind of in flow with them. The ones with the water under them. Because a dock with a foot of water underneath it, yeah, you might find fish there, but typically the best docks, and you know this as a bass angler, are those ones that are, you know, four to fifteen feet of water underneath those docks, you know? And he said, Yes, depth. How am I gonna figure out how to find out the deep docks? And I said, and and now I'm looking at the map. And the map had all the contour lines all around the outside of the lake. So um I said, Well, look at the contour lines. And he said, Yes, these contour lines you can see they're very tight. So if on the shoreline it's showing a steep grade, what do you think happens under the water? Sometimes it might flatten straight out and there might not be water, but 90% of the time, what happens on the shoreline that you see happens underneath the water as well. So he in a span of 20 minutes opened my eyes to what you're talking about, that whole studying away from the source. And uh I went through and I already had mapped out all of the areas on the lake that I wanted to go in and fish. So that pre-fish now went from getting onto the lake and just blindly driving around and and fishing what looks good. You have this base of of information that you've already built. Now you go out and you test the theory, and it was my uh just like you with rocks on Simco, it was me with docks. And um, and that improved uh our fishing greatly. Now, um it's funny on Lake Simco, that that was a great way to figure out largemouth. But your rock theory would have done me a greater service because at the in those days the fish that won tournaments were smallmouth, and they weren't the you didn't find a whole lot of really big smallmouth underdogs. You found big largemouth, but I also had to become proficient in finding smallmouth, and Lake Simcoe's another, it's a huge lake, right? So, but it just that it's funny your rock story and um and how that uh parallels what uh what I was doing early too. And that also give me um the basis of understanding that the new technology really, really makes a huge difference. And, you know, another quick aside, um, it was um the back in those days, you know, we were whoever I was fishing with, uh, I was basically a donator. You know, we didn't I didn't win any tournaments. The best finish that that I ever had was a second place, um, and and and it drops off sharply from there. We were we were a, you know, out of um anywhere from 50 to 100 teams, uh our average was just enough to make the classic most times, which was somewhere between 32 and 18. Um, you know, a few top tens, whatever. But um, I didn't actually realize this was a fallacy that I was telling myself about technology that I didn't disprove or learn different until I bought Chaudi Air. And that fallacy was, yeah, you know what? The sonar really doesn't find fish. Like you can't really see the fish, but you can see the bottom. And if you can find the house that they live in, then the fish are going to be there. Well, that was what somebody tells themselves when they don't know how to use the technology, and they make excuses for being uh, you know, 32nd and 39th and and 18th in these tournaments because you can see the fish. And back then, you could see the fish. I just didn't um put enough uh weight in that technology. And when I come to Chaudi Air and started watching Billy and Purple, um Billy would tell me that the these little um and I and and you also told me because you probably heard from the same guys um in the beginning, those little pixels on the bottom of those little CUDA eagle black and white primitive uh sonars showed walleye on the bottom as a two or a three-pixel stack looking like grass on the bottom. And it was proven to me over and over and over and over again in the boat that that's what they were, and um that is when I realized the power of the sonar technology, and uh, I've bought in and I've been a uh um a believer ever since. Like, I mean, uh today we're we're talking about uh you know forward-facing sonar and live scope and all of that stuff, which is um unbelievable tech but you know, so and that and that's a discussion for another day.

SPEAKER_05 39:44

Hi everybody, I'm Angelo Viola. And I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favorite fishing show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right. Every Thursday, Ang and I'll be right here in your ears, bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Hmm. Now, what are we gonna talk about for two hours every week? Well, you know there's gonna be a lot of fishing.

SPEAKER_11 40:06

I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.

SPEAKER_05 40:11

Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes, all the other guys would go golfing.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Me and Garchomp Turks, and all the Russians would go fishing.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

The scientists. But now that we're reforesting and letting things, it's the perfect transmission environment for line with these.

SPEAKER_10 40:31

Chefs, if any game isn't cooked properly, marinated for me. You will taste it.

SPEAKER_05 40:37

And whoever else will pick up the phone. Wherever you are, Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Seeing Technique Beats Highlight Reels

SPEAKER_04 40:54

As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Olet, and I was honored to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as Chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials, and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession. And I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy Now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts.

SPEAKER_06 42:22

We've talked about that one hack. Is there any other hacks?

Hack 3: Talk To Everyone, Learn Locally

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Yeah, and it actually parallels off of the story you just told perfectly, because I think that it's a very important, no matter what the subject, and we'll stick to phishing because it's obviously very topical, but no matter what the subject is uh in question, you you gotta put yourself in position to learn from others who have more experience. And that can be hard, especially when, you know, uh while I use myself as an example, when you're 14 now and you literally know every single rock on the Upper French River, it becomes very hard to have an open mind to quote learn from somebody else who might know from you know more than you because you've got this thick skull ego that says, no, no, no, I I know everything. You don't know everything, right? Like there's there's this layer of ego just just drenching the young angler, I think, that is the all-knowing, all accomplished, you know, individual. And I'll use myself as an example going back to San Diego in my bath days. When I got my driver's license, so I would have been 16 years old. I really started going a lot harder at largemouth bass because now I could go drive to my local lakes and and go fishing. But I was stuck on shore. I didn't have a boat. We didn't we did we had a family boat, but it was like a ski boat. I and I wasn't at 16 towing of you know, yeah 3,000 pound fiberglass ski boat around it. Try to go fishing. So, you know, I'm fishing from shore, and I've and I'm talking to some guys in shops, and I got an invitation from a guy named Greg, just one of the one of the most amazing sort of mentors I had, not from a he taught me about fishing specifically, but from the people he connected me to. And he invited me to join their bass club, the San Diego Bassmasters. It was the biggest bass fishing club in San Diego. And if you were a non-boater, you could jump into the back of a boat on a tournament day and go fishing with some of the best sticks around. And when I heard that, I said, sign me up. Right. Because now, and my buddy Spence and I, uh, he's been he was my long, long time fishing partner uh growing up in San Diego, and we did a lot of fishing together. But, you know, we had limitations. He was younger than I was, and we had limitations on where we could take their boats and how and where. And to be able to go jump into a you know 21-foot ranger that some guy who's been fishing San Diego Lakes for 35 years owns. And I mean, that was critically important for my development in the bass world of San Diego, because on this day I'm with Bud, who's like the number one, you know, angler of the San Diego Bassmasters nine years in a row. And the next day I'm with this up-and-comer Jason, and the next time I'm with the so you know, you you can't.

SPEAKER_06 45:35

You're seeing different techniques, you're seeing different baits being worked, different points of view, different ideas.

Be Genuine; Process Over Tactics

SPEAKER_03 45:42

And I and I'll tell you, it's so funny that you say different baits being worked, because at this point, for whatever reason, and remember, I'm, you know, I'm however old I am, I'm a teenager and I know everything, right? And I and I don't. And I looking back, I know I don't. But at the time, I've got this, you know, big, thick skull and blah, blah, blah. And I'm thinking, you know, bass just only bite minnowbaits. I'm talking like a long, thin minnow bait, like a husky jerk type bait. Right. Bass only eat minnow baits when the fishing's hot. This is a belief I have. This is a, this is, I know, I know they only eat when when when the fishing's hot, right? And at this point, I'm not a predictor of when fishing will be hot. I'm not studying barometric pressure. I'm not doing much of anything in that capacity. It just either is good or it's not. And I went fishing with one of the anglers in that club, and he pulls out this jerk bait, and it's slow. We're like moving plastics. You know, I'm I'm bubble rigging, which is like a big Carolina rig, and and I'm like feeling every rock down there and move one cast I'm working for four or five minutes, right? For large mouth. This is how slow we're fishing. And he pulls out a middle bait, and I didn't say anything, but I wanted to say, you, buddy, you are wasting your time with that. I don't know what you think you're doing. Now, bear in mind, this is like a 50-year-old man, and I am like a 16-year-old boy, right? And I'm in my mind convinced there is no way this guy's catching fish. And buddy, he slid the boat parallel to shore, and I'm casting out towards the deep water, working my rocks, and he's not moving the boat really at all. We're just sort of parallel ashore. He is firing that bait parallel, and he he would crank it down, you know, five, six turns, and then he would pause it, and he would just twitch that rod tip upward and then pause and then twitch, twitch, pause. And he was, I've never seen somebody work a minnow bait like this. I've never thought to do it. Uh, in my mind, I'm thinking you cast the thing out and you rip it in full speed or you know, half speed. Maybe I twitch it, but I am certainly not pausing it and letting it suspend in their face for 20, 30 seconds. And and I watched this guy put a clinic on, and I am so I am bl I am so blown away, right, by this process that I go back to that store where I had met Greg, who got me into the club to begin with, and buddy, I buy like a hundred dollars in minnow baits, which at the time is, you know, probably 75% of the money I have in my bank account at that time. I I load into minnow baits because, you know, and the ironic thing is my it might have been months or maybe years before I ever actually learned that technique because my God, is it hard to and and do you have to be so dialed in to take a bait like that and work it through that shallow rock cover without it snagging? Because I don't have the hook buried into a plastic like on a Texas rig or a Carolina rig. Um you've got you you've got exposed treble hooks. And it it really floored me that whole process. See, and that, buddy, that's just one example. But to put yourself in a position where you can learn from somebody who has the experience, somebody else who's walked your path, who has combined persistence with the application of skill, and ideally it's fueled by passion. But again, that's that's the bonus. Um, to put yourself in a position to see it unfold in person, I think is a critically fundamental tip because you can watch fishing videos and and I did. You can read from magazines, and I did, you can read full books. The Shaw Grigsby book is like it fundamentally changed the way that I thought about largemouth bass fishing. But to see it, to watch, and by the way, the movies, the show, the videos are the the sort of the highlight reel, right? To watch somebody spend five or 10 hours doing something unsuccessfully, to then see them turn that into a success, you don't get that. That that's the true root of success, is it's in that failure along the way. And I don't think you get a good grasp of that watching the shows because you got to put the action into the 30-minute show, right? Absolutely. To see it unfold and then you say, okay, it's it's perfectly acceptable for me to go out and not catch fish for all this time. Because, buddy, when you finally connect the dots and it goes, that's where you get your flurry of, say, an hour where you catch five, six, seven fish. That's what makes the tournament. That's what puts that show together. I mean, we've seen over and over an entire show. It it goes from we have no show to we have one of the best shows we've ever done in a 30-minute period.

SPEAKER_08 50:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

If you don't, if you don't see it, I think, I think it's important to see it in person. So that would be the other one is get yourself in position to learn whether you're going to the store like you did to talk to Joss to get that information, whether you can get into the boat, uh, do whatever you can with an open mind. Because I promise you, nobody, not myself, not nobody knows it all. You might know every rock, you might, you might, you know, whatever. You don't know everything. And if you can genuinely have an open mind, you can learn from anybody of any skill level. Everybody has something to teach, and I fully believe that.

Gratitude And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_06 51:42

Well, that's that's another hack all in itself, is is learning uh and having an open mind and not dismissing the the people that on the outside look like they don't have anything to offer. And um that that goes back to the old adage don't judge a book by its cover. Um, I learned a lot of that. Well, um, Peter Bowman is uh is a perfect example of that. And what I mean by that is um Pete has all kinds of time for everybody on the water. Like when we're putting a boat in, or you know, he's out fun fishing or doing whatever, he will talk to every local that's kicking around. He will he will give people his time and he will also use that information. And like, I mean, it's easy to look at uh the uh the the town guy that's got a five-gallon pail flipped upside down on the edge of the dock, you know, uh dunking worms and uh and catching um and catching uh chubb or whatever it might be. And and when you have a conversation because you think in your mind, like, you know, uh uh wow, this guy's got nothing to offer me. He's dunking worms off the uh off of the dock sitting on a five-gallon bucket, you know. But even if that person has never been on the water on a boat and he is absolutely um mesmerized by the look of the machine that you're putting in the water at that moment, that doesn't go without saying that he doesn't know anything. That doesn't mean that um he he if you start talking to him like Pete talks to everybody and and I learned that from Peter. Um he might be he might just come out with something um innocent like hey, nice boat. I saw a boat um uh right full of walleye, the that the but they were pulling out at at midnight. They were pulling out at midnight, and I watched them go in, they went in at five o'clock at night. While Peter hears something like that from somebody's like, oh, that tells me a lot. That tells me that the bite here could be later, you know, and then the conversation turns to, oh no way, what was the weather like? And and and and this honest conversation happens and a flow begins with somebody who who isn't used to people paying them any kind of attention or worth. And number one, number one, take all of the information and everything out of this whole scenario, your vibrations are going up. You're making somebody feel like they're useful, like they their opinion matters. Um, and and when you make other people feel good, that makes you feel good. And like attracts like, and no matter what, this the situation that you're going into, whether you're going fishing, whether we're shooting, whether we're, you know, whatever you're doing, it makes that situation better, no matter what. And the cherry on top is you're getting local knowledge. And just because that local doesn't fit the mold of a of the prestigious angler that you think will give you that information that's relevant means nothing. And it it it's all about going into it with an open mind and being humble and and engaging with everybody because you never know where that nugget is gonna come from. Right? And that that that's that's a that's another little hack. So we've got like those three hacks, and and when you take that, um never mind fishing, when you take those hacks, like you set off the top, um and apply them to anything, you become a better person.

Closing Music And Sponsor Promo

SPEAKER_03 56:15

Certainly more skilled at what you're trying to accomplish because you're you're learning from the ground up. And and when you're learning from other people, you have the confidence perhaps that they have found success doing this, and therefore you can as well. But at the very least, yeah, you're you're a better version of yourself in every capacity. And you know, you touched on something in that last discussion about the vibration, right? And you say like attracts like, and you you you you go out there and you have that friendly conversation with somebody, that pays so many long-term benefits that you may not even realize. And I'm not suggesting to go be nice to people so that you benefit from it later. I mean, you need to be- But it doesn't work that way. No, you need to be genuine, right? And and that, if you have that level of genuineness to yourself, that is like my if I was gonna cap off these little hacks, that is really one of the major ones. Like you need to be true to yourself and and understand who you are, which is a man, that's a that's a podcast right there, man. But yeah, you know, just to understand And it's not easy, it is not easy to to have some kind of a grasp on who you are and at least fall back on being genuine to who you are. And if you're somebody who meant I don't talk to people, full stop, okay. That's that you know, great, but you are only limiting yourself. You're only limiting yourself because even if you're the first one to give information about something, it always comes back to you in some capacity. Maybe not from them, maybe not like it. It's not a it doesn't have to be a transactional relationship. All evens out in the wash. Yeah, man. It's exactly I love that phrase, but I use it all the time. Um learned it from you as well, and it does, it truly all evens out in the wash. And uh just a quick note on Pete, because I think this is another important at least for me, in my experience, what I have really studied as well in order to kind of advance myself in the world of fishing, but uh again, with everything, is I listen very, very closely to how people speak and in terms of how how do they think. Like it's less about it's less about what they're saying, and it's more about how they got to where that conclusion was. And Pete's a perfect example because Pete, I think, has one of the finest minds when it comes to fishing. It's not like he always figures it out. I mean, he would say he doesn't, but I mean, generally he's often figuring it out. But what's more important to me, it's not like what it took to catch them that day, how he figured it out that day. It's listening to his his process for how he figured it out, right? So, so for me, that's opened up, and I've been very, very lucky to have a lot of exposure to Pete Bowman compared to the average angler out there, right? So um again, uh fortuitous sort of dynamic for me to benefit from. But like, we'll call you and I will be driving in the truck and we'll call Pete, and he's telling us about, you know, he's like, wow, I was fishing at my bass lake, and I'm, you know, I'm doing and so he's he's telling us the story, and we're just buddies talking, right? He's not doing a show, he's not, but when you listen to him and and he's and he speaks how he got those fish to bite, and then you start reflecting, like, okay, that pattern's neat, but who knows if that'll ever work again. It's more critical to understand his process for what he was doing. That wasn't working. Then he's like, Well, I so I tried this and I, you know, maybe caught a little one, and then I tried this, and buddy, the that four or five flips, I got a real nice one, but then it went dry. And and then I started using that technique, but I was, I didn't change my bait, but I was letting it slide through the and and when you really kind of listen to the process, I think it helps you on the water if you are if you're paying attention to the process. Not that I'm gonna take that exact technique and go do the technique, it's in one increment changes at a time. And I think that if you can really grasp on to this idea, that buddy, you might be one factor, one variable away from the best day of fishing you've ever had in your life. And it's how you how you go through that process. And Pete Omen is absolutely spectacular at not only figuring that out, but also at demonstrating it through the discussion of the pattern in a way that allows you, if you're paying attention, and again, it's hard to not dial in on the very specific technique. It's the art is listening to how that change happens. And I think all of the sort of, I call them the OGs of the fishing publications that taught us to fish. There's so many guys out there now on YouTube or whatever that are showing you catching or showing them catching fish, that the guys like Pete and Ange, the owl lenders of the world, I'm talking the guys who actually taught us to fish. If you really focus on how they speak and their process, it will make you a way better fisherman. And it it's it's hard to do because everybody wants to know what's the secret, what's the technique, what's the this, but it is it's not about the technique, it's about how these guys think. And we can all learn from the Anges and the Pete's and the Owl Linders because it is how they think that fundamentally shifts. And then these were the guys who said, I'm gonna take this. What should be secret knowledge if you were a gatekeeper and I'm actually gonna make it available to anybody? That is the last piece. It's it's learn from the sort of the guys who walked the path before you. If you can get in the boat, even better, but if you can't, there are a lot of resources from guys who really understand fishing who will teach you how to think to find success. And that is critically fundamental to any success I ever had as an angler was being able to apply that knowledge that I took in from the sort of the godfathers of the of the fishing world, right? So I we we really owe a huge debt of gratitude and um appreciation for the guys who said, Hey, I'm gonna share this information. I'm not gonna keep it to myself because we are all better off for it.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:54

Well said. And uh on that note, Patrick, I think that uh that uh that is uh a wonderful way to tie everything up and um and to say thank you very much for joining us once again here on Diaries. I'll thank you for the uh the family because I know that uh that they love you and and hearing from you. And uh uh I'll thank you personally because uh I always love having you on.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:24

Thank you for that. And I I as always thank you right back for having me here. I I appreciate being here. And if the if the if the family likes it, I I'm here for you, brother. I I gotta tell you, I'm here.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:38

Nice, nice. Well, I'm sure they do. And folks, thank you for getting to this point and uh and listening and all of the support that uh that you show uh that you show me and and and everybody else that's part of this family. And um uh any thoughts, fire me. You know how to get a hold of me. Fire me off uh an email at steve.com at fishingcanada.com. And uh actually, I'll say that again, steve.n at fishingcanada.com and head on over to fishingcanada.com, check out what Angin and Pete have got going on over there. It's always uh a great place to fall and and many hours of uh enjoyment digging up uh old things and and our new season is uh is now in full swing, and you can see all of those episodes. Uh they air on global, eight o'clock on uh Saturday mornings, and then the following Monday they hit our YouTube channel. So check us out there. Uh, I know the last show was a great one. Um, and uh again, folks, thus brings us to the conclusion of another episode of Diaries of a Lodge Owner, Stories of the North. And thanks to our wonderful producers, Mancini and Taylor.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:59

I'm a good old boy, never meaning no harm. I'll be the only whoever's all been railing in the hog since the day I was born. Bendin's run. Speaking my mind. I'll be making my way, the only way I know how. Working hard and sharing the north with all of my pals. A bottle lodge and live my dream. And now I'm here talking about how life can be as good as it seems. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:55

Back in 2016, Frank and I had a vision to amass the single large. Database of Muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:03

Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:10

Thus, the Ugly Pike Podcast was born and quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:17

Step into the world of angling adventures and embrace the thrill of the catch with the Ugly Pike Podcast. Join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous Fish of 10,000 casts.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:31

The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing, it's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate anglers who share the same love for the sport. Through laughter, through camaraderie, and an unwavering spirit of adventure, this podcast will bring people together. Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling adventures.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:49

Tight lines, everyone.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:51

Find UglyPike now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts.