Autistic (doctor/writer) friends compare contrast and giggle

My guest today is a wonderful friend who shares her experience as an adult realizing that she’s on the autistic spectrum.
I refer to her as aka-K because she feels uncomfortable with her actual name being out there.
Aka K is a physician, turned writer, parent of an autistic nonbinary trans child, and married to a physician-scientist. And funnily enough- that describes my background as well. 
In this episode, we compare notes about how we feel about autism in our lives. And aka- K surprised me with some of her answers.  

https://onthehumanspectrum.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to On the Human Spectrum. I'm Tiam Fritz, and I get to talk to neuro-interesting guests to hear their insights and struggles, ideally with a giggle or two, as we explore the varying ways we find purpose, meaning, and connection, and define and perhaps redefine success. My guest today is a wonderful friend who shares her experience as an adult realizing that she's on the autistic spectrum. I'm going to refer to her as AKAK. Or Kay, because she feels uncomfortable with her actual name being out there. Like a lot of other people, it turns out. I might do an episode on why that might be. Anyway, Kay is a physician turned writer, parent of an autistic non-binary trans child, and married to a physician scientist. And funnily enough, that describes my background as well. In this episode, we compare notes about how we feel about autism in our lives. And AKK surprised me with some of her answers. There's a recording snafu, so we'll begin with that, and then things sort themselves out quickly. Oh, yes, and we recorded outside, so the burrs, beads, and other chat insects joined the conversation. It's okay. This gave me a chance to think something's up.

UNKNOWN 1:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Let me see. I don't know how long it's been recording. That's a good practice one. And it's also really fun to talk about it. And tomorrow I'll forget. And maybe I'll be able to think about it. So just going back. So it doesn't look like I'm, I don't know if it's recording, but just going back again. So you learned about Hans Asperger in your psych rotation, you think probably. Or maybe earlier. I can't remember. And so it's through learning about that, that that's when you're like, Oh, like these are his little professors. Right. And that's where you're like, I think that's where I started to think some things. Think some thinky things. Yeah, thinky things. And that kind of put me down the track of reading a lot of things. Some various memoirs and looking at people around me. But so when did that connect you to, like, this is me? Or did it, or was it just like an interest? I think it was right then when I started. Like you're like, oh, this is me. Yeah, pretty much. So did you mention it to anybody? No. And why not? It was a lot of stigma. So it did feel a little like a pathological thing then. Yeah, but also I still feel bad because, you know, I haven't been formally diagnosed. Did you know that's something about Asperger's people that we worry about? like claiming it while we're not? Yes, exactly. Very much so. I think it overlaps with OCD stuff, like the need for certainty. Oh my gosh. Big need for certainty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So that's both like a good thing in medicine and a curse. It's a very good thing. Yeah. For the patient and like terrible for you. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, yeah, we're not leaving that to chance checking. Right. Right. Checking. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you did like, oh, this is me. And then there was a stigma for you then. I think it depends if you're talking about internal stigma or external stigma. No, I mean, external. I don't mean internal. Or you tell me, what do you mean? No, no internal. Right, right, right. Yeah, that's me. Yeah, okay. Right, but you wouldn't necessarily need to call attention to it. No, I wouldn't, especially back then. And even now, I wouldn't because there's a lot of, I don't know. Even now, you wouldn't say... I don't know. You're like, I mask. Exactly. It would depend on who I was talking to. Somebody like me who lets it all hang out. You're like, oh, whatever. Thank God. So, so huge of a relief. And the thing is, it's nice when you do talk about it because anyone who you're not to, there's still, there's such a barrier. And it's like, I'm going to, You have to go home and rest now and do a lot of pretending. So do you feel like you still are doing some pretending? Oh, sure. Like with, I mean, you don't have to name names, but like with friends, like with acquaintances? Not so much now since I'm not working, but definitely at work. Yeah. Even though there, I mean, you can look back and see like, Oh, you're pretending, but you're not pretending very well. You mean you're not pretending to other people. Oh, you feel like, ah, so you're like, we're trying to pretend and also felt like you're judging yourself. Like you're not, you're not masking well enough. Right. And masking. I hesitate to use the word. That's the word, but I don't. But so in, in what way, what was felt like it was. Uh, Less questions. And like in meetings, like in the sense of you pretending to be your typical. Yeah. More blank. More. More like social. Socially on point. Totally. And this, this is in the South too. Oh, I find it sounds much harder. Oh my goodness. Such huge expectations. Socially for women. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just not going to fly. And that's definitely where the, as you pointed out earlier, the not being neurotypical, especially being an Asperger-y or autistic woman. Right. It's much, I feel like we're much more defined of why do we have to do this, of seeing it from the outside, right? You're being like, why do I have to, partly because we can't seem to manage to do it. Though I guess, I mean, I don't mean to put a blanket statement. I think some people can do it, but it's, or maybe we're seeing the social construct. Yeah.

UNKNOWN 5:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Okay. So failing in that way, in the sense of, I mean, I use the word failing. Did you use the word feeling? Is that what it felt like? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I suppose I was successful enough that I stayed employed.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Right. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

You know, I don't want to have lunch with the other people on the team, you know, they're great, but it's just, it's, it's stressful i need that time to de-stress yeah yeah i'm giggling with understanding yeah nervous understanding giggle i was like i need to get away now i have to get away i have to eat lunch by myself because i am full right saturated yes and i've got to get some of that i'm gonna sit and i'm gonna read and i'm gonna eat and then you always feel a little bit bad because you're like aren't you supposed to be social right enjoy that lunch yeah i Like the right kind of person. Yeah. Especially women in the South. Yeah. Oh God. No, I do not want to go to lunch with everybody else. Yeah. Just kill me. Cause I'm not getting through the afternoon. If I want somebody else, somebody's getting stabbed with a fork. Possibly yourself. More like myself. But there's just no way. Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons I loved working in the ED with shift work because it was, And I need a shift work, too. Great. Yeah, because as a hospitalist, it really is. Yeah. And then you don't have... And misophonia. Oh, my God. Oh, the sound stuff? Oh, yes. The sound stuff. Yes. I never remember the name of that. Misophonia. I feel like there's another name as well. I might be mispronouncing it. No, no, no. Phonia, I guess, is obviously sound. And so what kind of things are things for you that you can't... Oh, it's the eating sounds. Oh, yes. Oh my God. Yes. I can't take it. That's why like, Oh my God. And you just, you feel a little weird, just turning, always turning down the lunch thing. Stop asking, which is like, thank God, but also the smacking, the smacking, the slurping. I was so glad the slurping. I was so glad to hear Oliver Sacks had, you know, the neurologist who had that because as the first time I came across it, that it was like, because it just seemed like, being so picky or easy to overwhelm or so sensitive or rude, yeah. You don't want to say anything and you can't say anything. Absolutely not. I just can't. Oh yeah. It's been a long time since I've eaten. Yeah. But just this morning, one of my kids was eating cereal and I was making coffee right next to them. So I was like, and I was like, Oh my gosh, can I ask you to move? He's like, no, no, I'm going to breathe through it. You go ahead and smack on your cereal and I'm going to practice. Yes. Just like you practice your OCD stuff. I'm going to practice. Yeah. And so I focused on my own. So my mind would be full of it. Yes. Yes. And the kid has that too. So we have to, at least we understand each other. You know, like, okay, if we get something to eat in the car, like, okay, don't start eating until we get the music going. We've got to get the music going to hide the sounds.

UNKNOWN 8:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

The four of us, each of us has some sort of, we all understand. I feel like we're just this little odd force of us. We're going around, but it's nice to meet other families who are their own little odd. Music's going. Okay, turn it up. Unfortunately, I don't think John shares the smacking problem. And I know my kids don't because they smack like crazy. Actually, when my sister was like, oh, my gosh, 30 years ago, how can you marry him? I think she was thinking manners. But I think it was the same thing for her, that sound. I'm fine in restaurants and things because they're really usually good about having the music going. There's just enough other sounds. And I've actually read about this, that... The reason why it is, have you read about it? Is that your brain hears the sounds and thinks that you're eating, but obviously there's nothing in your mouth and there's a disconnect between the sensations, everything else that you're doing and what your brain is hearing. And it's kind of a little bit like motion sickness with food. Interesting. Interesting. I like the idea of nausea with it or like disorientation. Yeah. So I don't know that I, I experienced it as almost anxious, anxiety provoking. Anxious. Like it makes me angry. Yes. Yes. Like that feeling of revved up, like maybe it's just adrenaline. But I don't think I have to think about it. It feels just like I need to stop. But the anxious and the anger is a huge part of it. I need it. It's just a physical thing. It's a physical experience. I have to think about it. I feel like I definitely hear it. I feel like somebody else needs to stop. So I don't think I'm hearing it. I know. I've read that. But that doesn't mean it's true. That's just one thing. Psychologist explanation. Does that person have misophonia or no? I don't know. Cause I don't, I don't, I'm not sure. And I can't remember what it was based on if they'd done any like fMRI. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that'd be interesting. Yeah. Because if you have misophonia and the sound is activating certain other areas of the brain. Well, I do think of it as hyperlinked. Yeah. Because like, for instance, I don't know if you have like synesthesia, right? So this would be an unpleasant kind of thing, but it was synesthesia being like hyperlinked. uh like numbers having when it's not really a sense but numbers having colors the kid has synesthesia i don't think i do with uh numbers yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely yeah and it's funny because i was talking to somebody else the chemistry phd and she's in her 80s so you know that yeah she's definitely she's talking about right talking about uh she definitely has Colors and numbers, of course. Yeah. But everybody in her family does as well, but they all have different associations with which number, which color. Interesting. I love that. I disagree about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't think, I don't think I have that. And then, and how are you about smells? You can, that's the other thing. I think also the thing of smells is I was thinking it doesn't, there's a hyperconnected and then I feel like there's no extinguishing. I agree with you about the no distinguishing. I have a, rather poor sorry extinguishing yeah yeah i have a rather poor sense of smell you're so lucky so i know so when i smell it oh my god it can just just horrible if it's overcoming yeah fortunately since i don't have a good sense of smell that's not a huge right that's not one of your yeah yeah our entire family is obsessed with smell the no smells etc so and then we live in a less smell environment which means that every other smell just never goes away yeah yeah yeah Yeah, but if it's there and it's bothering me, you're right, it doesn't extend. It's awful. You just have to get it dealt with. But fortunately. I feel like we should segue now to what's so great about it. I don't know if this is being recorded, but if it is, I feel like we should say, what's so wonderful about it? Well, the connections. And the obsessiveness. The obsessiveness is also known as a passion for things. Right. Exactly. Right. This is why you could write a novel. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Research everything that you need for a novel. And sit down and do it. Yeah. And like in school, I don't know if you experienced this, but just sitting and listening to a lecture. Mm-hmm. is painful oh yeah i thought you're gonna go somewhere else like that there's no way i could my mind the more people in the room the more my mind faster my mind went same lecture but if it's like the bigger though it's like yeah i i don't think it matters to me how big the class is at all i think it's because it's like if there's just one person you kind of have to try to make eye contact now there's a social thing which i hate yeah but uh yeah no i actually in med school stopped going to classes because It made no difference. The transcript. I just, thank goodness for the transcript. I need the transcript. I need to read it. And I still feel like failure, like terrible because I can't just sit in the class and listen. Yeah. But all the way through school, um, you know, and I thought I was being so sneaky, but like, like the teacher would sit me next to the bookshelves and I would just read through the entire class under the, under the desk. And of course they knew. And they were just stopping the shelves. You'd be like elementary, middle school, like high school or med school. Reading all the way through. I'm reading the transcripts, but just, just sitting there and listening to some lecture on a subject. It's the, the flow of information I think is what it is. I think it's too slow.

UNKNOWN 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

for me it's auditory processing like if I read and sometimes I rerun it through like and I don't think it's necessarily all autistics I know John does very well in like listing and it's not as great as visual but I think it's it's like I think there's like there's a strong preference for one or the other and so when you have a real like visually I think both process very well which means that audio not so much yeah I'm very strong with visual I'm just I need to read it just yeah And then you remember like what page it's on and that kind of thing. I mean, it's not perfect, but sometimes I feel like, okay, I know there's a bottom, this page of this. And if I'm really focusing, I'll see people speaking in typed out words. Yeah. Or sometimes it's like, oh, you don't hear something. That's interesting. I haven't heard of that. It's great because you can, if you focus and you can just read it. And then also, I don't know if you find this, but when I hear words, sometimes I have to run them back through in a sense. It's like, I know somebody said something. I don't know what it was. I feel like I run it back through in my mind and then I can kind of make out the words. I think I could do that if I could, if they're not just gone. Yeah. They might not have gone in at all.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Yeah. Yeah. But on the other hand, the thing is, is that, I think all that reading really set me up well because it set me up for those really great SAT scores. I love that your teachers put you by the books. See, it was a really good score for me. That's very good. It was very... stable yeah so focused on the academics yeah and they could tell obviously that you needed you weren't you were not and you're probably you might have been slightly disruptive and they're like no of course not no but we had the luna i had the opposite when we were in elementary school in france we always wanted to read, so we always had a book, but they would throw it at us out of the class. I think I've told you this before. No, never. And they would grab us by the ear or by the arm, like roughly, and throw us out of the class when we were reading. And the trick was to keep the book in your hand as you were being thrown out of the class. You could just read it. Wow. Wow. And the thing is, it's just... It's so stupid to try and take a book away from a kid. Yeah. So I think I got lucky that like I had a history teacher who would just stock the shelves with the. With the novels that were... Appropriate for that time. Yeah, and that were the historical fiction about the stuff that we're supposed to be learning. Oh, that's so great. And some of them were so good. And I know so much more than I ever would about, you know, the Plantagenets because I read these books. I don't know that I know. There was a really good one that I remember particularly called Catherine that is about the mistress of one of the last Plantagenets. Plantagenets, this is where I don't. The Plantagenets were the lineage that came before the Tudors. Oh, okay. And in fact, they were the ones that the Tudors, this was John of Gaunt, and this was his captain. I'm going to giggle. This might be another part of the end of the test. I just took my head. Yeah, so John of Gaunt, he was married to a countess named Blanche, but she died of the plague. Is there a Blanche in one of your books? There might be. Yeah, yeah, in your... I don't know, maybe. Yeah, I thought there was. She wasn't a big character in this book. No, no, and she wasn't a big character in your book. I mean, she was just this... Anyway, sorry, go ahead. It's a good name. I mean, it's a great name. Tennessee Williams, right? Among others. Among others. Stella. The kindness of strangers. Yeah, so, yeah, just so it's about them, John, Dawn, and Catherine, and the illegitimate children they had who ended up being the Tudor line. Oh. Yeah. The illegitimate children. Oh, interesting. Yes, that's what made it such a good book, especially at that age. Oh. It's like, well, this is really more interesting than you're telling us. The other kids are like sneaking in Judy Blume. That sounds actually, it's funny, a lot like the, a little bit like mythology and like the who, you know, who had who. Yeah. Yeah. That's neat.

UNKNOWN 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

All right. So that's a definite pro. I feel like we've balanced out the ledgers a little bit. I don't know how much got taped in tape or whatever. Yeah. Just all the, all the reasons. And one thing that I worry about with the schools here is that on the one hand, it seems really good that they've moved away from requiring textbooks because it's got to be just too expensive for a lot of families. But instead, they're handing out all this material that the kids have to try and keep in some kind of order. There's not an easy... Textbook. Yeah. There's not like one, one, one area to go to. Like there's not a physical location. I needed a textbook that I could read because I basically took nothing from the, from the talking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. i don't i just i don't know what you're saying i was like oh i have to i have to try to focus i really always like that at the charlie brown stuff oh yes what they were saying was well yeah that's the other thing is like who knows what is the autistic quote-unquote part and partly it doesn't matter yeah but it's it's this word labeling etc like right And also who knows what quote unquote normal is. I mean, normal people do, but the typical people know, but I don't know. Right. Yeah. You break everything down into smaller categories. Yeah. If it's just, if it's not just one axis, if it's multiple axes, then everybody's a little off depending on the axes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So true. Like, okay, let's just, yeah, let's go to the text. I love that your teachers put you next to the books though. That's very nice. Good teaching. Yeah. That's really great teaching. Yeah. Really great teaching. So I did not know that you had a concept of that before your child. Yeah. So, Again, I'm going back to that clearly because I'm a little bit obsessed with that. When did you mention that to anybody? Did you kind of put it back in your mind? Like, for instance, with Jim, did you say anything? No. Did you think of Jim that way or no? You're just like, this is probably me and I'm just going to tuck it away. Exactly that. I would say I've never said that to anyone before you. Really? Maybe a little joking around with Jim.

UNKNOWN 21:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah. Cause I let it all hang out. Yeah. Oh, because you felt like you would be adversely judged or you didn't want to that. And because you're saying externals. Yeah. I, I think that, and also the lack of a formal diagnosis and the, It just kind of didn't come up, maybe. It also didn't come up. And, you know, I didn't have a lot of close friends in Atlanta, which I think, looking back, was very much that social Southern thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then, you're going to love this. When we got out to Seattle. Oh, yes. Beautiful. Beautiful. Totally. I think the Southern women... at least a deep South. I mean, Virginia is not as pronounced and this is obviously a huge generality, but I feel like there's, there are particular codes. They're even more, it's even more coded in some way. And so I feel like there's even more layers to kind of try to figure out. where people, you know, the bless her heart or isn't that lovely? Now, when I say, isn't that lovely? I actually mean, isn't that lovely? But I think in the deep South, at least in the 80s, isn't that lovely was a bad thing. Oh yeah. And bless your heart was a bad thing. Yeah. Right. So, but everybody knew those codes for me. I mean, I know now because I've read it. Right, right, right. But I feel like they're either, there were fewer codes or less, maybe this, I don't know. I'm going to go to stereotypes, but yeah. Like Boston felt like a little bit of breath of fresh air in the sense that you had, more people who just said things they're blunt which the south is like oh terribly blunt but there's like oh thank goodness you know where you stand right where you think you know where you stand yeah at least though yeah but the Seattle Seattle definitely Seattle Seattle like I didn't say it to anybody in Seattle because everyone would be like you need both right right right right you know like what else yeah but still it's like but with your kid or the child who was labeled like 15 no like 12 years ago Labeled at what age? Like in more than a decade, right? So you wouldn't say it, but it was something that was active. I guess what I'm poking a little bit on the no internal stigma, just knowing there's an external stigma. And I'm just wondering if some of that might not have been internalized a little bit or maybe... I think probably, yeah.

UNKNOWN 24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Yeah. Tell you what, wonderful me. I couldn't even get that. She's weirder than I am. It's kind of funny because people talk about the Seattle freeze. The Seattle freeze? Yeah, the Seattle freeze is people moving to Seattle and feeling like they can't make friends or that they feel like everyone's a little bit off. Oh, interesting. I think it's just a really neuro atypical city. Yes. And good coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These are my people. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny for the people that would be like, how do you make people with these hands? Actually, the funny thing is just sitting here talking to you right now, I've just made a connection. Yeah, a little bit embarrassing. Oh, remember, we may not even be recording and I could always edit it out if we are recording. So I think one of the women that I was closer to in Atlanta, who I worked with really nice person, but she was very socially capable and Southern and blonde and just nice. But, and she had like some questions for me sometimes about why I didn't do certain things, which I had a hard time answering. And I think, yeah, Like actually, and I'm still embarrassed by this, but like calling people by their more formal name. You were calling people by their first name. Yes, totally. And their first name. Right, I get that. They have been invited to use their first name. Yes, which is why I feel like France is an autistic nation because people invite you to use the two instead of the vous. Right, exactly. Among other things in France. Exactly, and the same thing, and coming from my parents, especially the English mother, and I was told not to do that. And or autistic. Exactly, exactly. And so, and I have tremendous trouble with that, but she was feeling that I was like maybe being rude to somebody by not using their first name. Interesting, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, but they haven't said that it's okay. Right, and it's physically uncomfortable. It feels like you use, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's physically uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the funny thing is, is that the, person who it was about i think might have overheard some of it and they were an immigrant and they kind of liked oh yes yes using the first after yeah so that was yeah but the thing is but she also what just struck me right now is that she made a point of talking to the bringing up her husband who had also was also a doctor and um He was pretty significantly autistic, very Asperger. Yeah. Yeah. And they had just had a recent bad divorce. Oh, OK. So she's thinking of it differently. Yeah. But she was. Yeah. She was like, maybe you can provide some insight. Yeah. And I thought it was very interesting that she was telling me this stuff. But in retrospect, she was like a heads up. So what was she saying? Like, was she saying some things about how, um, I think it'd have been, he was a very good doctor, very, but had difficulty with social things. And now with his patients, right. Because there's a script with patients. Yeah. I love the script with patients because you can talk to patients and you know, there's a reason. And yeah. So true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What kind of physician was he? Hospitals as well, or like a neurologist? Like internal, I believe. I can't remember exactly because I never knew him. Right. Because she came to my hospital after leaving the hospital that they'd been at

SPEAKER_01 28:05

together.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

And he, she told me one story once. I was really sad that he had basically never smiled or laughed. And there was one time that they took a hike up a mountain. And they were somewhere in a little bit of nature. And it was, like, the first time that he ever, like, breathed and smiled. And she said it kind of broke her heart. And then after they divorced, he moved off to a rural cabin with no electricity or any, like, completely off the grid. And was happy there.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yeah. But what's connecting with me right now is that I'm getting why she was bringing it up. Just a few years later, they, in a sense of like, were you not smiling then? Or were you just not like that? I think she just saw things in me. Right, right, right. I don't think it reminded her in any way. And maybe she wasn't even consciously doing it. Maybe I just saw you. There was something about, right. Or maybe she was, maybe she was obviously, she was quite neurotypical, but she was obviously good around people who aren't. Right. Which is probably why we were more friends. I mean, I do wonder about the whole nature piece. And again, I think of like, well, doesn't everybody feel better in nature? But it seems to me that maybe not.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

I mean, I feel like it's a necessity. I mean, nature being, I guess, I mean... since we're part of nature, just being literal here, since we're part of nature, it's anywhere we are, but you know, more green, I suppose. But no, I wanted to ask you more about the attention side of things, because I feel like that's been a big atypical thing for me. I feel like people, it seems to me that the people I know who feel they have trouble with attention have, correct me if I'm wrong about you, have almost like a sense of shame with it oh definitely and which since I don't have as much of the attention issue I don't have a sense of shame when you like I have another friend who's a surgeon she's awesome you're awesome and you both seem to have a little bit of a sense of shame about the attention or maybe time management or those kind of things which I don't think of as sources of shame right because i don't i don't have the experience so maybe you have been shamed in some way or feel like it's wrong oh i think definitely because you know growing up um like you know school was a series of like going to lost and found every week all the things that have left behind i love that when you get there it's box literally we had to go to the lawsuit found every week um who's in key who's getting into the car i'm hyper regimented i think maybe because of that because i have a particular yeah it's like a feeling of like if i don't have the structure yeah and lulu has a good thing she thinks that actually one of the things she people you know when people talk to themselves out like out loud. And she says, it feels like it's processing in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Because if you're speaking out loud or writing it down on a list, like I'm obsessed with lists, like it's a way of processing it so that if you're normal, not normal, if what would normally be considered the usual routes are not available to you or don't work. Yes. Right. So there's the list is just saying it out loud to yourself. If you're the kind of person who can hear it, you know, process it again. Yeah. But yeah, I know I'm kind of obsessive when it comes to OCD. You have to have that. Because otherwise there's no way. Yeah. Though this makes me think of like Lulu sent license plates for her car. And I remember my last memories. I remember having license plates and I remember she knows I did this because she has the same thing. She's like, I bet you did. You said, okay, I'll put this here. Well, of course, remember it. And that's the last thing I remember, but I have no idea where I put it.

UNKNOWN 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

I know when it's like, it's just gone. I think as I get older, most of the time I'm like, okay, well that's fine. It just is. It just is. It just is. You know, like, yeah, but yeah. But the, you know, the absent-minded professor sort of type. Which is hard because that's such a male thing. And that male comes with support. Exactly. It comes with admiration. It comes with a 1940 secretary with a pencil skirt and those fabulous heels. Yeah, yeah. Who will fall in love. Yeah, and you're even smarter because you're on that. Exactly, yeah. But as a woman, you're supposed to be both the success and the secretary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're supposed to have your executive skills. You're supposed to be more than intact. Right. I don't know about you, but phone calls. Oh, I, when the, my favorite things was I was watching on YouTube, it was neuro typically atypical Asperger guy was interviewing a woman who was an Aspie girl and you know that how it might present differently. And again, gender constructs, et cetera. But what she said, she's like, you know, it may not be obvious to people, but like, for instance, she's like, I have the hardest time ordering a pizza. And I laughed and laughed and laughed because I had the hardest time ordering a pizza. Like I hate calling. She was like, I have to practice what I'm going to say. And I'm like, doesn't everybody? Yeah. Hey, the pizza's not so hard for me because the thing is, it goes back to, it's a script. Yes. But even, even if it's the same script. I'm actually reading my hands just now thinking about calling for pizza because I think it's a script, but I feel like I still can't quite get it right. Like, I mean, I had to get called for insurance and I'm like, I can hear the person on the other line being like, what's your name? It's like a wall of words come out, which I know don't make sense. Yes. A word, well, it doesn't, it's a singular. But anyway, but it's, you know, it's just like, and you can hear it. And it's nice to hear the other person on the other side, like recognize like, okay, if they're in a good mood, they're like, all right, honey, especially this house. Okay, honey, can you maybe start with your name? And then of course my last name is so hard. Sweating, just thinking, sweating, just thinking about calling, but I've really tried to be better now and just be like, okay, I'm just going to, even saying that makes me, my chest height, I'm just going to call. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to make the call. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm trying to put my big girl panties on and make the call. Yeah. So I can check it off the list. Yeah. I can do something else. I mean, I'm sure neurotypical people struggle with other stuff. I mean, actually they have to struggle with like, where is their social hierarchy? I don't care. Right. Like I don't, who cares? Right. Yeah. I'm like outside of that. Never. Like I'm not competing with anybody. Yeah. So yeah. Pluses and minuses. Pluses and minuses. Very true. I think that's the nice thing about getting older, right? Yeah. That feeling of like, okay, it's your minus is the plus and your plus is the minus. I hate that expression, two sides of the same coin. I don't care for these overused expressions, but that's unfortunately true. What comes up? I wonder what the, what is it? So misophonia. But I wonder if there's one for overused idioms or business jargon. There's business jargon that really great. That might be universal, but it does like touch base really gets to me. Go lie. I hate it to an unreasonable degree. I think partly also because it comes with the idea that something is going to change, and I do not. Especially because it involves usually something to do with technology. Technology change. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why you're thinking about it. That's too funny. Delightful. This will not go live. Yeah, actually, just thinking about it. And I don't like to, I have a hard time saying like to drop something. Actually, the thing is I don't like to use something that makes it sound like, I guess I'm trying, therefore failing to have like the right jargon, not business jargon. Cause I hate that. Like be on the same page and unless you're on the same page, but whatever.

UNKNOWN 36:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

but like to go live or to publish or to drop an episode, the next episode drops. I don't know. I'm bringing here. I mean, I can accept what other people say, but I can't quite muster myself to say it. That's not a, this is disturbing. I kind of had an issue when I was growing up. Like, can I, I actually remember, can I say the word cool? Oh yeah.

UNKNOWN 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

It's like trying to wear cool clothes. Do I have permission to use the word cool? Nobody's told me I can use the word cool. I feel like it's like, can I pull it off? The answer is maybe not. I wouldn't go for any like hot new slang. Yeah, right now I'm not being bullied. So maybe. No, I love hot new slang because it's ridiculous when I use it. It's like, I will tarnish your hot new slang if I use it again. Yeah, update me. What is this hot new slang you speak of? I can't even remember. I'd have to ask. And then the kids try to keep me up to date with that. It's not, excuse me. It's not happening. I know my tweet. Are you too warm? It is a little warm, right? Well, I'm going to stop here and we either have one, and then we'll go from here. And then I would love to chat more some other time. Advice for moms. Just thinking about this. Cause one of the things I think about is advice for parents, but I guess moms, but parents of newly, I hesitate to use the word diagnosed, but like parents with a kid who's recently been labeled or somebody said, you know, you may want to get your child evaluated. Right. Thinking about how to approach that emotionally. Somebody who might be struggling with that. That's a really good question. Cause like I said, it wasn't anything that comes as faintly a surprise or a difference from what we're like. I mean, it just really makes you think about how you've managed to kind of try and thread the needle and what things they might need to do in terms of getting into careers and pathways that aren't going to be like constantly poked with needles right right right metaphorically speaking but literally speaking you can be put the one poking with you but whatever yeah yeah so um this is good the music coming on it's like an outro um so that sounds like a sense of reassurance like in the sense of in our case both our cases when we had kids they were not surprisingly like us and i mean for me i realized in reverse that because of this label it realized what the label also applied to me and my husband, my husband and I. So. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing that slowed down us getting the testing done was that first test that they referred us to that I did with them. And that. I scored way higher on certain things. So, and then when they get tested. The normal control, not so much. I was like, well, this can't possibly be. Of course. I mean, and of course I knew things about myself and then, but then I felt, because you feel like, well, yeah, If I haven't been diagnosed. Right. Right. Right. What is, what is a diagnosis means a pathology. Right. Yeah. And so this is, I think this like struggling part, like. Yeah. What's going to, yeah. What's going to help. What's going to hurt it. And when do you tell people, when do you not, because there, there is going to be stigma and. Yeah. And I guess for us, we had a different experience because for our son. it was helpful to have the label. Exactly. And I think it is helpful. I'm glad that ours has the label too, because they can get things through the school. Yeah. Yeah. And I think people give the benefit of the doubt for quirky kids these days in a way that they don't for. Yeah. It depends on the school too. Like the school that our kid went to in Seattle, they, they, had extra stuff starting like almost right away. So I think they take it out right away. Exactly. They take the neurotypical back. Okay. You guys don't feel like you fit in, but other people like you're out there. I love that. I'm going to end there and we'll see which part of this conversation, if any moving forward.