ADU's or Accessory Dwelling Units, have long been a popular way to build a 2nd home on a residential property that is not zoned for multi-family. Accessory dwelling units are popular for use for rental income, or for extended family as well. The ability to build ADU's changes dramatically with the passing of HB 1337. HB 1337 requires the adoption or amendment of municipal zoning regulations to allow for at least two ADUs on all lots located in all zoning districts within an urban growth area that allows for single-family homes. HB 1337 supersedes and preempts all municipal zoning regulations. Anacortes Realtor Bert Clay talks with Paul Balzotti and Howard Chung of John L. Scott Real Estate about how the adoption of these new rules will affect Anacortes.
You can reach Bert at bertclay@johnlscott.com
ADU's or Accessory Dwelling Units, have long been a popular way to build a 2nd home on a residential property that is not zoned for multi-family. Accessory dwelling units are popular for use for rental income, or for extended family as well. The ability to build ADU's changes dramatically with the passing of HB 1337. HB 1337 requires the adoption or amendment of municipal zoning regulations to allow for at least two ADUs on all lots located in all zoning districts within an urban growth area that allows for single-family homes. HB 1337 supersedes and preempts all municipal zoning regulations. Anacortes Realtor Bert Clay talks with Paul Balzotti and Howard Chung of John L. Scott Real Estate about how the adoption of these new rules will affect Anacortes.
You can reach Bert at bertclay@johnlscott.com
Howard Chung: recordings will be individual. And then even like I see Paul, then he's kind of grainy, but what's gonna happen is his high quality camera is gonna take the full resolution and I'm gonna be able to have that on the backend so that I'm gonna be able to do the post editing afterward. All right, so let's go ahead and kind of just get started. We're just hopping right in. And so I always kind of just start off with, hey, everybody, welcome. I already gave Bert a little heads up of what we're gonna initially do and ask him a little about his backstory, Paul. So. We'll just kind of get right into it. Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of Getting Real, the Getting Real podcast with Paul and Howard. And in this particular episode, we've got a really special guest. We've got Burt Clay from the Anacortes Washington office. And Burt, I mean, he's got such a great background, so we're gonna ask him a little bit about it. But Paul, I think in this episode, we're gonna talk about ADUs, right? And so Paul Balzotti: Yeah. Howard Chung: Paul, what's an ADU? Paul Balzotti: Additional dwelling unit, of course. And there's Howard Chung: Okay, Paul Balzotti: big news out there. Howard Chung: so some people call it an additional dwelling unit, but I think it's more common now, right? I think that additional dwelling unit used to be what it was called, but now it's accessory dwelling Paul Balzotti: Oh! Fuck. Howard Chung: unit is what it's like more known as, Mr. Paul. So this is just letting you know, Paul's been in the industry a long time, but we gotta get up to speed with ADUs in general. And this... Paul Balzotti: Of course it's exactly... Bert: That's why you invited me. Paul Balzotti: Yeah Howard Chung: That's Paul Balzotti: exactly. Howard Chung: right. Paul Balzotti: Oh my gosh. Howard Chung: But, you know, in the state of Washington and the state of Oregon, this conversation is a little bit ahead of the country because, you know, there's so many different topics to actually have. This can lead to so many different conversations. The more you actually start to dive into ADUs and why the states, of course, are, you know, proposing you know, this legislation to have more affordable housing, converting single-family lots into, you know, opportunities for these ADUs. And of course, lots of people are having questions. What exactly does this mean? Do you have to, you know, actually create subdivided lots as a result? Is that what's happening? What about short-term rentals, long-term rentals? What about CCNRs, you know, of course, within every single subdivision community? There is a lot to talk about, and we're not gonna get to all of it today, so I'm just letting you all know right now. but we definitely want to at least have that first conversation, just get the appetite wet, just get understood that this is gonna happen more and more. So whether you are a homeowner thinking about buying a home, you need affordable housing, you're a builder or contractor, you're a real estate agent, loan officer, the ADU conversation is just gonna be something that's gonna continue to happen, I think, in the coming years. and we just want you to become very much aware of it and possibly become an expert at it, right? I mean, what are the advantages of becoming an expert in the field at this thing? So that being said, Paul, I mean, what else? I mean, have your brokers in your office in Bellingham or in the Underquarters office, I mean, is this a curious topic? I mean, what are you finding so far? Paul Balzotti: Well, yeah, it's a super big deal because there's just, you know, I think for the longest time, it seems like most things that are happening are making it more difficult to build, more expensive to build. And this is just, and we're always talking about affordable housing. And this is the biggest move that I can think of in my 20 years that goes the other direction in a major way, as far as opening up development and things like that. So I think, of course, it's a huge deal. Howard Chung: So I grew up in the Seattle area, but then when I started my real estate career, I actually moved to Boston. And so I was working out of Cambridge, Massachusetts, and I remember it was the second house that I sold, and it was basically a duplex, right? A two-family home with a built-in carriage house. And I remember being a brand new, just a brand new agent, a newbie to the industry, and basically the listing agent in the office was explaining... you know, somebody can live in the one unit and have, you know, the qualifications of the rents of the other two units, you know, basically cover your mortgage, uh, you know, help them qualify. And because of the price point of the house and the rents that were coming in, because obviously we're talking about Cambridge, Massachusetts, right? Harvard, MIT, I mean, all these schools, rents were high and the units were renovated. Uh, he was basically saying you can basically sell this house to somebody and the mortgage will be covered by the rents. And so I kind of scratched my head a little bit. I thought I pretty much understood it. Sounded a little too good to be true. And then when I had a client that was showing them condos, I said, hey, can I just show you this one additional house? And of course it was way more expensive than the condo. And initially he got really upset at me. Like, Howard, why are you showing me this Paul Balzotti: Thank Howard Chung: house Paul Balzotti: you. Howard Chung: is completely out of my price range? I said, no, the rents will cover your mortgage with the same down payment. And he didn't believe me until I got him in front of the loan officer. loan officer explained, no, you completely qualify. You know, instead of buying a condo, you could buy this house. And so he ended up buying that house. Paul Balzotti: Thanks. Howard Chung: And within three years, he had bought two more multifamily houses. In essence, I converted this condo buyer into a millionaire within a short period of time in three years. And I remember at that time thinking, man, I helped multiple people, I mean, through this process. And I was all, I was just Paul Balzotti: Thank Howard Chung: a Paul Balzotti: you. Howard Chung: huge fan of multifamily. housing, you know, basically, you know, duplexes, triplexes, fourplexes, and this whole ADU conversation is kind of bringing this opportunity with single family houses back into this limelight, into this conversation. So that being said, we've got Burt Clay, and he's not just a real estate guy. He is a business guy, and he's actually had some really great experiences. So Burt, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what did you do before real estate? Bert: Well, my previous career was in the transportation industry, specifically in the trailer, semi-trailer manufacturing industry. For 35 years, I worked for various companies. The largest was my, towards the end of my career, with Tramobile, which was the third largest manufacturer of semi-trailers in the country at the time. And I worked up through them and became their VP of Sales and Marketing. before I left. Howard Chung: So Bert, I think I remember you telling me the most amazing story about how you even came to live, where you are living now in this amazing community, in this amazing city of Anacortes, Washington. And so give us that story because I think you're pretty much pseudo retired from work, right, from this executive role, and you were looking for just a place to live, a good community, being closer to family, so give us a little bit of that story. Bert: Well, we moved from a large city, Toronto, which was, you know, very different than Anacortes. What attracted us to the West Coast is our daughter lived in West Seattle. She had some health issues, so we wanted to move closer to her. And my wife was a principal back in Toronto at the time, and I came over early in February and started looking up and down the sound, trying to find that perfect place, the balance of close to Metro but not in Metro and looking and we Paul Balzotti: Thank Bert: I Paul Balzotti: you. Bert: went to every community from Olympia all the way up and we were getting slightly discouraged because either the prices were ridiculously high at the time and or we didn't feel right and I came in to Anacortes on what's called Shipwreck Day which is a Saturday where it's a huge flea market. They close the downtown and everybody brings whatever they want to get sold and have it out in a booth. And it was kind of an interesting way to see the demographics of the community. I saw a lot of military personnel because of the Navy base. I also saw a lot of people walking around with purple hair and multi- family structures. So it was kind of an interesting way to see the broader spectrum of the community and how well everybody was interacting and creating a wonderful community. So that's before I got in my car and I drove around the island and went across Deception Pass Bridge and I called my wife after coming back to the middle island there and said hold the presses I've found the perfect place. From then on, we concentrated, founded John L. Scott agent, and bought a property here. So, and I've been here since. Howard Chung: And this is even before you knew about the whole rain shadow advantage of Anacortes as well, because you get a little less rain on the island than kind of in other parts of Seattle. Bert: Yeah, it's interesting. Our real estate agent actually brought a lot of the even additional benefits of Anacortes into play because the rain shadow, we are at the edge of the rain shadow. I mean, even the distance between Anacortes and Mount Vernon is dramatic. So it's kind of neat that he was able to enlighten us even more of the features and benefits of the community, took us up to the top of Mount Erie and, you know, it was just I'm just in love with the place and so is my wife. Howard Chung: and then you decided to go into selling real estate because you just didn't want to fully retire. I mean, you got so much more to give. So give us a little insight about, you know, the clients that you serve and, you know, like how you went into that. Bert: Well, it's kind of interesting. Our agent, who worked out of this office at the time, said, man, you'd make a great realtor. And of course, then we moved here. And we got into the house and got settled. And I'm kind of a little bit twiddling my thumbs. I'm too much of a do-type person to just sit around and not. I've always been. extremely work-oriented and it's my makeup. And so I wanted to do something, get involved. And so I took my license test and did the courses and everything in 30 days and got my license. And it took a while to sell my first property. I, you know, it wasn't over died because it was coming out of the 2008 disruption in market. But I sold my first property. It was a $60,000 cabin in concrete. But Howard Chung: Whoa. Bert: that was followed by multiples right after. It just kind of snowballed from there. Paul Balzotti: Burr, we have that in common. My first sale was like a $40,000 cabin in concrete. So we, as you go, you go wherever you can get business Bert: I'm gonna Paul Balzotti: when Bert: go get Paul Balzotti: you're Bert: a drink. Paul Balzotti: starting. Somebody's like, hey, I want to go look at this really cheap place way out in the sticks. And I don't really know if I have enough money for it. You're like, let's go, you know, because you're Bert: Thank Paul Balzotti: brand Bert: you. Paul Balzotti: new and you're just a wicked dude. I mean, not that we still don't serve those buyers, but certainly, yeah, that's a common first sale. Bert: Yeah, it was great. It really was because it had things to deal with that normally you would never have to deal with in a standard home. So it was a great experience, a good educational experience. Paul Balzotti: Well, and a good compliment to you is, is when I was thinking about who to have on to talk about ADUs, you're not even from Anacortes. But you're now I mean, that's still a long time in the business now. You're still what is that 14, 15 years or what? 12. Bert: 12 for absolutely. Paul Balzotti: Okay, 12. Yeah, but still 12 years as a highly, highly productive broker in Anacortes. And now you're an expert in the market, right? And you and you also you do quite a bit of helping relocate relocation clients as well, right? Bert: Yes, because of my business background, I'm a natural fit for relocating people because I'm doing a lot of traveling in multiple parts of the country, in both countries during my career, and that exposed to a lot of different businesses and a lot of different business leaders, and it really helps because it makes people automatically feel a relationship or a network to relocation. not a employment relocation, but I'm really located in that I'm here. But it certainly helps. And the other thing that really added to my expertise was my background. You know, I dealt with an awful lot of negotiations and mergers and acquisitions and dealer support and all that interaction with people. Really helped integrate my analytical skills and my marketing skills. Howard Chung: Well, let's get a little bit into the specifics of our topic today. You know, because I think this is, again, such an important one, and people are going to be more and more curious about it. But first of all, I mean, Bert, do you have any just perspective in terms of the House Bill, like in terms of the state of Washington wanting to pass this? Do you have any of that, you know, just perspective? Or Paul, you know, you for that matter, you know, as far as like why? What's the why behind this? Why did the state decide to introduce this bill? Bert: Well, one of the major things, one of the things I do within the Antiquities is I'm very involved in a lot of community organizations. And there's a continuous theme within those because we deal with a lot of needs in those organizations. And a continuous theme was housing shortages and cost of housing. For the last seven years, easily, maybe even eight years, that, you know, there's a there's maybe kind of a, I don't want to say a joke, but anachordis catafortis is used quite often that people are being priced out in the community. So as a socially responsible person and watching what was transpiring as prices here doubled and literally tripled since I became a realtor, that The need for opportunity for people to be a homeowner and participate and or even have affordable rental housing was incredible. And there were a lot of push by the community. The city passed in 2008, a municipal code, which opened up ADUs to the community. But they didn't start running away. There were a few people that picked up applied and built them. But a lot of the developers came in and started to want to build multi-unit properties. And they did. And the community actually kind of really didn't like it. They felt it was changing the physical appearance of the town. There's another saying that's very popular as well. We're going to look like Seattle with eye-raises. mid-rises and all this. So they wanted, you know, the city's going through a lot of resistance for change. But one of the benefits I see for ADUs, you know, if you look at the current city code on ADUs, they allow one ADU unit within a fairly not broad spectrum of zoning areas within the city. and the new legislation that was passed in May by the legislature in Olympia changes all of that. It allows two ADU units on a single family home property and there could be lots of different combinations of that. You know, it doesn't have to be two structures, two additional structures. It could be a one additional structure or two additional divisions within an existing home if you have separate entrances. You know, there's lots of combinations that are opened up if, depending on the current home that's there and what land is available. It used to be restricted to 900 square feet. Now with the new legislation, it's 1,000 square feet per unit. Makeup of an ADU still is the same, which includes a kitchen, a bathroom, and a sleeping area. But there's no minimum size. Now, physically, to put that together, you're probably going to end up with a minimum, but the law does not state a minimum. But the beauty of this is that people that have the single-family home, that are wanting to improve their income opportunity, also be community oriented and offer lower cost housing, can add an ATU or two to their property, supplement their own income, and at the same time be socially responsible to the community and offer better housing. And there's so many ways that can help in a lot of respects. Another restriction that was on the current ADU code was that the owner had to occupy either the ADU or the primary property. Well now, even investors can buy a single family home, put two ADUs in it, in whatever configuration possible, and can get three incomes from a single property. So it's an enormous opportunity, not just for individuals, to grow wealth and income potential, but for investors. So it really covers a unique gambit that traditional multi-units don't necessarily do. It's a beautiful benefit to the community and to the affordable housing. Howard Chung: I think there's so much to break down right now on, you made a bunch of different comments and different categories and people that we got to talk about. But the first person that I'm thinking about is that first time investor, they bought a house, it may have been their first home, right? They bought a single family house, they can make the payments, but they just are not able to take money and then like buy another house, as an investment house. And people, everybody is curious about investing in real estate, right? Having additional, I mean, they've seen all the TV shows and they hear, they've read all the books about the importance of having investments and having rental income and all that. But this new house bill, this new ADU opportunity, basically all of a sudden saying, wait a minute, even on my existing house, I can still live in my house at an ADU and my own house becomes its first investment. I mean, That alone is kind of a really unique opportunity. I mean, Paul, any thoughts on that yourself? I mean, have you guys been talking about that, you know, in the office? Paul Balzotti: Well, yeah, and there's also so we're talking about investors. We're talking about the first time investor, the multifamily aspect of it. But also, Bert also touched on the square footage change. So a thousand square feet. When you think about a thousand square feet, that is now that's not like a little cottage. You could have a really nice, highly functional one bedroom or a two bedroom even. cottage with any think about the designs now but with open floor plans and vaulted ceilings you can have a really nice second home. Add that second home there's also the mother in law component of this to write like how many families are there where now that it can be a thousand square feet especially because of the restrictions lifted. Now what about you know you have those you know those aging parents maybe you wanna have. them, you want to build a second home for them, you want to take the old garage in your yard and convert it to an ADU or off the alley, convert it to an ADU for not just for potential income, but it could be literally for extended family, right? So I think that there's going to be a lot of that too. I don't think this is strictly going to be just something. So if you live in a neighborhood in Anacortes or somewhere else and you're worried that all of a sudden investors are going to run rampant, I think there's going to be a lot of multifamily situations too. they're going to take advantage of us. Bert: Yeah, it's not just from a standpoint of, you mentioned the taking care of parents. Well, also there's the extended-stake kids Paul Balzotti: Yep, Bert: that Paul Balzotti: yep. Bert: can have their own place. So it goes both ways. You know, there's lots of opportunity or additional care, you know, potential care. You know, it just, it fills such a gambit of wide need and opportunity for a lot of people. Paul Balzotti: Well, what about, and so I think there's that concern that people have about, okay, well then this is gonna, you know, this is gonna create a lot more development in my neighborhood and more density and all of that. I mean, I think that on that subject, I mean, if we wanna touch a little bit on, you know, where there's gonna be resistance here, I think there's a couple of things that need to be said. One is, you know, Bert, you said yourself when you were talking earlier about when they first passed the law spray to use, and it seemed like a big deal at the time, but then it didn't seem like it made a huge impact. Obviously we know this is gonna make a bigger impact, but still, it's not like overnight, everybody's gonna start building ADUs everywhere. There's still a cost, storm water, there's this, there's that. There's still gonna be, it's not gonna be for every lot and every homeowner. So it's still gonna be. a slow, you know, moving thing that's not going to drastically, I think, change any neighborhood anytime soon. And so I think that's it that and then that's going to be one concern that people really shouldn't have to think about too much or at least be overly concerned about things changing too quickly. The other thing in the law is that neighborhood associations, HOAs could still restrict. So and I know in Anacortes, there's several developments that are. that are run by HOAs that it's not going to be allowed on anyway, correct? Bert: No, existing HOA restrictions are maintained. Any future HOA or condominium Paul Balzotti: Amen. Bert: will not be able to restrict those. That's Paul Balzotti: That's Bert: a huge, Paul Balzotti: a good point. Bert: very Paul Balzotti: But Bert: huge... Paul Balzotti: I think several of the newer developments in the Anacortes probably already have things that would restrict. Or I don't know. You tell us. Bert: most condominiums and HOAs here have very strong CCNRs and restrictions on rental periods, rental types, even on the unit itself, let alone on adding another unit. So a lot of neighborhoods will not be affected if they're already in an HOA or a condominium. Paul Balzotti: Yeah, so it kind of reminds me of, you know, when you go down, I was buying a Airbnb in Arizona and you know, every HOA in Arizona has their restrictions against Airbnb. It's because they're so prevalent there. Bert: Right. Paul Balzotti: It's going to be like, I kind of feel like that's the way land is going to be valued differently in city of Anacortes, different cities around Washington state. Now it's like. If this is a non-HOA, if there's no restrictions against this in this neighborhood, well, everyone's law is worth more now, for the most part, right? Because there's that potential now with that law. Bert: Well, you could look at that both ways too, that if it does have those restrictions, it's not going to be affected by it. Paul Balzotti: Right, Bert: So Paul Balzotti: so it depends on what you're looking for. Bert: it'll be interesting how down the road economically those play out. Paul Balzotti: Yeah. Absolutely. Howard Chung: You know, I think we're touching on a couple of really important points. First of all, on the HOAs, ultimately, HOAs are people, right? They're communities. They can still govern and make decisions to change, you know, the existing rules and regulations if they so wanted to. That's just where, you know, we do have to have good counselors and the cultures and communities. I mean, they all have to just decide, hey, is this good for our community? Is this good for the community at large? I think. Bert, you mentioned, you said a word, social responsibility. I mean, there's a lot of pieces that's happening there. But on top of that, if in these HOAs, they're starting to see, well, you know, multi-generational living, I mean, the needs that even people who live in those communities are also gonna be facing. The idea that, wow, I can maybe have both, you know, my kid who's moving back home, as well as an aging parent, and you'll have true community in that way on my house through these ADUs. because I don't want them in another room in my house. I want a little separation. I mean, the ADUs do solve so much of these type of things and other communities, cultures, other countries, it's already a norm. And so, I don't know. I feel like there can just be these conversations that need to be had even among the HOAs. I mean, don't you guys agree? Bert: For sure. You know, it's part of evolution and change in general. People will get used to this way easier, I believe, than high rises. High rises change the appearance of a community and a feel of a community, where the ADUs are still, if you even look at the ones that have been built so far. They don't change the neighborhood really. The neighborhood still looks like the neighborhood. You know, a lot of them are behind the main property or look or modification of a garage or an additional structure that was on the property. So they don't necessarily affect the visual aspect of the neighborhood. Yeah. Paul Balzotti: Well, actually, almost the opposite, you're right, because, you know, in the core neighborhoods, you know, kind of the more urban neighborhoods, a lot of times they're taking these old garages that looked like trashed, and then they're rebuilding them into these really nice cottages. So cosmetically, actually, I mean, there's more density, there's more, you know, all that. But cosmetically, I think you're right, it can actually go the other way sometimes. Bert: Well, yeah, there's a new building, right? Paul Balzotti: Yeah, exactly. Well, and then another thing I don't know that we've touched on is, you know, yes, okay, so makes for an excellent investment, great opportunity for investors, great opportunities for people like Howard's client who had a situation where, you know, they were going to buy a condo and now all of a sudden they could afford a house because they can rent the other house. There's all of those aspects, somebody developing, as Burt's mentioned. What about just the renters out there? I know that in Anacortes, it's expensive to buy, but it's also expensive to rent. And even a small amount of uptick in options, maybe somebody who has a $1,500 a month budget for rent, maybe all they're looking at is a couple of apartment complexes in Anacortes, and that's all their options are right now. Maybe there's now some new cottage, a thousand square foot, new units that are detached. living homes that are going to be available. That opens up some more affordable rentals as well. Bert: Well, especially, you know, the most first time renters are single individuals. You know, they're generally not families. They can be, but the vast majority are single individuals. So the opportunity for even an individual to have a small place of their own is a great. And getting back to that point you mentioned before, one thing that I have definitely seen an improvement in Anacortes is the alleys. because a lot of those builds have been in the alleys. And the alleys tended to be kind of a, a lot of a, like a leftover part, you know, the garbage cans and whatnot. And the ADUs that have been built have really upscaled the alleys in a lot of places. So. Howard Chung: I love all this conversation. I mean, we've already been talking for like 30 minutes, actually. And I think a lot of the people who are listening, they're curious about, well, what's the first step or what's the next step? If I'm curious, you know, I'm a homeowner now and I want to add, you know, an accessory dwelling unit. What's, I mean, should I talk to the city first? Should I talk to a realtor? Should I talk to a- Contractors I talked to a lender. I mean what's your recommendation in terms Paul Balzotti: Call Howard Chung: of like Paul Balzotti: Burt. Howard Chung: first up? Paul Balzotti: Call Burt. Call Burt. Bert: What? Three, zero. There. Okay. Yeah, I, three, six, zero, two, zero, two, five, four, three, zero. Paul Balzotti: Howard, just get the phone number and take her on the screen. Bert: Anyway, currently the ADU legislation doesn't go into effect in Anacortes until it's mandated that it has to go into effect no later than six months after our anniversary of our comp plan, which our comp plan anniversary is 2025. So by law, the city of Anacortes has to have the new parameters in effect. by no later than six months after December, 2025. There's a lot of things that have to be done. You have to understand from a legal standpoint, they have to rewrite incredible amount of code enforcement things within the structure of the city. It all has to be engineered, calculated and all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of work to put it together. Currently, if one wanted to build an ADU, it would fall under the 2008 city codes. one would want to see where they'd want to proceed. One could go ahead and build one based on the current and then build the second one based on the new when it comes Paul Balzotti: Thanks Bert: into Paul Balzotti: for watching! Bert: effect after 2025. And economically, that's probably a nice stepping stone. Howard Chung: I think just what you're saying right now is that initial research in terms of like, well what about costs and what about finances and what about, you know, the designs and plans and options and all those things. Anybody who's ever done even a light remodel of any kind, it takes a long time to figure this stuff out. And so it's better to at least have conversations today, wouldn't you agree? Bert: Yes, planning is everything for success. You've heard that, plan for success. The benefit is that if you start by doing research, by contacting people that have knowledge and can help guide you in the right direction, it will help you make informed decisions. And understanding the changes that are coming down the road wins the best time. You mentioned the affordability. Well, one of the benefits we have all, any property owners realized in the last four or five years, most properties, at least in Anacortes, have doubled in value. So a lot of people have pent up equity in their property, which is relatively easily accessible to help put in an ADU, without going out and breaking the bank. And then you've got the extra income to offset any cost that's involved with that. And then some possibly because of the rate of rents right now. Howard Chung: So, I mean, historically, we've always told clients, any homeowner, hey, you should get a market update every single year. Whether you think about buying or selling, you should at least know how much your home is worth. And oftentimes what the realtor would be able to do at that time is also give you a few home maintenance tips, which a lot of people, right, they haven't maintained their homes as well as they could have. And so it's like during that home assessment. you know, that your broker is kind of giving you some ideas of the value of the home. Make sure you've done a few home maintenance tips, you know, things of that nature. But now it's almost like, Bert, if you're gonna talk to anybody and give them one of these home evaluations, you know, just because you do that on a yearly basis, it's not only, here's how much your home is worth, but it's like, here's how much your home is worth as is. If you were to add one ADU and you could get this kind of rent, this is how much it could go up by. because now you've got revenue coming in. If you were to add two ADUs, this is what it could be worth. I mean, I think it's a whole new conversation now between the real estate professional, homeowners. And before we started the podcast, we talked about, also there are people, I mean, we talked earlier about the person who's thinking about converting their house, getting additional income as their first investment. There's a lot of people who might be a little bit on the equity rich, cash poor scenario. So that means that maybe they're retired, pseudo-retired, you know, their income isn't what it used to be or not as much, but they've got a lot of equity. Maybe they don't have a mortgage on their house. And by actually taking some of the equity, actually then adding an ADU, it could actually help them with a cashflow perspective. So, I mean, your thoughts on that, Bert? Bert: Oh, definitely. You know, Anacortes has a sizable retired population, which most of those people are on fixed income from their investments and retirement. So any supplement that affords is... Well, we're also dealing with inflation, right? And as costs go up, people are going to need more income. So this also can help offset... increased cost down the road. Howard Chung: And you know, if you're going with today's law, it's kind of like, well, you still have to be a resident of that property. However, down the road, you don't have to be a resident. So you can make it a complete investment situation where maybe the unit that you're even living in, you're renting out the entire deal because that law is gonna take into effect at some point. And so again, the more preparation I'm planning now, probably the better, wouldn't you say? Bert: Yes, especially, again, take an older individual who is, you know, retired and aging in place. And they can do that for now, but say over time they need additional income, they build one or two ADUs on their property, and they're there for five or ten more years, and then they've reached a point where they may need additional assistance in living, okay? assisted person living in one of the ADUs, or they can move into a higher care facility and have the income from all three properties supplement the higher cost of assisted living. Howard Chung: you know, this is a whole nother topic and Paul, we should talk about this as a part two, but the reality is there's the short-term rentals on top of that you can be doing down the road, which could be another option. That's a whole nother topic. Paul, you've had other podcasts on the short-term versus long-term rental scenarios, but I think there's just so many things to talk about in this space. But Bert, I mean, any parting thoughts for this part one anyway, because I mean, we've had so many different layers of conversations here. Bert: Well, as you've mentioned, there's so many aspects to this. It's literally unlimited opportunity for a property owner and a renter and or a buyer, it's first time or a senior. It's an amazing improvement in the long-term care for people and the community. Howard Chung: Well, hey, we want to just thank you for listening to today's podcast. You know, if you are curious about ADUs, we've got this resident expert, Bert Clay, right here. We also have a property management division who can also help, you know, because we wanted to be that one-stop shop here at Johnnell Scott and Accordus. Paul, any parting thoughts for you? Paul Balzotti: Yeah, that's it. I guess you're right. Yeah, reach out to Bert. Thank you, Bert. And yeah, Green Ocean Real Estate Services is our property management company. But Bert, yeah, we appreciate you. And thanks for coming on, my friends. And then, hey, Howard, I think that what you might wanna do. Howard Chung: Hey, Bert, give us a, oh, did he leave? He just hopped off. It Paul Balzotti: I don't know if Howard Chung: just, Paul Balzotti: you did that. I don't know if you Howard Chung: it Paul Balzotti: did Howard Chung: just Paul Balzotti: that Howard Chung: took Paul Balzotti: on purpose. Howard Chung: him off. Paul Balzotti: But hey, Howard, what I was going to say is, why don't you do a quick abbreviated intro again? Because of the length of this, I think that if you said something like, hey, welcome to the show. Oh, there he is. We lost you. But if you said, welcome to the show, we're going to cover, get to know Bert a little bit and then talk about ADUs. And let's get going then you have an opportunity to if you want to cut out any part of that first five minutes you could But you spent like you kind of like started talking for a minute And then you like said something to me and then I kind of was like said the wrong thing in the first two minutes It's kind of like Not really anything there. So I would just do a quick re-entro You make maybe you want to keep what you have But I'm just saying if you do a re-entry then we could at least you'd have something to work with if you want to Cut into part of it after that Howard Chung: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what we're gonna do two things, but I'm gonna do a little re-intro, and then we're gonna have you basically just say, hey, thanks for having me on, anybody who's out there and you're curious, right? Whether you're thinking about doing it or not, feel free to reach out to me and there's no obligation. Something to that effect, right? Just so that they can reach out to you, Paul Balzotti: Well, and actually, Howard Chung: okay? Paul Balzotti: I'll just redo the part that I just said, and then I'll kind of say, thank you, Bert. Then you could say, and then it can flow into Bert talking instead of, okay. So wait, I'll clap and do that. Okay, hold on. Bert: Well, thank you. I enjoyed being Paul Balzotti: Yes, Bert: part Paul Balzotti: thank Bert: of this. Paul Balzotti: you, Bert. We Bert: And Paul Balzotti: appreciate you. Bert: I'm open to anybody's contact for any, let me start that over, sorry. Paul Balzotti: Yes. All right. Let's do that again. So we'll go. Bert: Thanks Paul. Being part of this Paul Balzotti: Well, Bert: and being Paul Balzotti: thank you Bert: able Paul Balzotti: for coming Bert: to help Paul Balzotti: on Bert: people Paul Balzotti: Bert. We appreciate you, my Bert: with Paul Balzotti: friend. Bert: their investments, that's what I'm here for. I'm open to anybody contacting me if they have any questions about ADUs or anything on their property. Howard Chung: Well, thanks again, everybody, for joining us today. Again, we're very excited to continue to bring you content. Be sure to like, subscribe, and reach out to us for any of your real estate needs, single family, multi-family, Bert: Thank you. Howard Chung: metal housing, any of these kinds of needs. Thank you so much for listening in today. Say that again, Paul. Bert: Yeah, I don't hear Paul. Oh. Howard Chung: Did you get mutiple? Bert: your back. Paul Balzotti: There you go. Howard Chung: Okay, there it is. Paul Balzotti: You might have to redo that end and then do a redo intro. I think me and Bert are done though. Howard Chung: Yeah, Paul Balzotti: I Howard Chung: yeah, Paul Balzotti: think you just have to redo your end and redo your start. Bert: Hey, thanks, guy. I really enjoyed this. Paul Balzotti: Okay. All right. Bert: Well, thank you. Thank you. Howard Chung: yeah Jonathan: See you folks.